AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

[Muppalla]

Now we understand Tamilians' angst

The split is actually a jijji-naka-jijji-naka-janare moment

[Vayutuvan]

the teacher used to write one line in Tamil and the next in Tamil!

Is that a Freudian slip? Should it have been "Telugu and the next in Telugu" or "Telugu and the next in Tamil" or even "Tamil and the next in Telugu"?

[SaiK]

தமிழ், తెలుగు or తమిళ్ தெலுகு?

[vina]

vina, not just telugu... ..half of them were brahmin themselves, of one type or another... ...the other half were maratha.... ..yes, tamil self respect & all... these are the remanants of the vijaynagara folk who fled to TN many centuries ago... ..lots of kanada speakers in there too...

Yes indeed if you mean the number of folks with not Tamil mother tongue in TN, in fact, many of the iyers originally spoke Telugu (think Thyagaraja on the banks of Kaveri !) and I know Iyengars whose speak Telugu at home.

[vina]

For Vina types and other Indians this may look like foolish because until you are part of it you will never get it. But we are brought up on stories from our late grand fathers who used to take visas in Vijayawada ( there is something called Nizam gate even now in Vijayawada) to visit relatives in Nizam. Operation Polo armed forces were fed by the villagers in Nandigama and other such border areas to launch on the Nizam. Good that most of them died but they will not appreciate this divison by another white woman (with whom they fought in those days).

Come on. You are not going to need a visa to go to Telangana if that is what you are suggesting, nor did you need a visa to visit Madras when Andhra separated!

[SaiK]

are you theorizing that the telugus are still being chased down south?

[Theo_Fidel]

It is possible that the loss of ancient telugu litreture that led to this. Sangam literature has references to telugu poems and poets and epics. None of these survived to today. this lack of a rallying point make it a bit harder to glue things together.

So the 4 great SI states now become 5.... ..or does Telangana want to join the west...
---------------------------

Saik,

onlee if they want idli poddi....

[ShyamSP]

Yes indeed if you mean the number of folks with not Tamil mother tongue in TN, in fact, many of the iyers originally spoke Telugu (think Thyagaraja on the banks of Kaveri !) and I know Iyengars whose speak Telugu at home.

So are you saying Iyers and Iyengars are Telugus? (Iyer <= Ayya Varu = Arya People; Iyengar <= Ayyan Garu = Respectable Arya). So it was all fight between Telugu Brahmins and non-Brahmins in alien Dravidian land.

We still have that Telugu continuity then - AIADMK (JJ - Kannadiga Iyengar), DMK (Vijay Kumar - Balija Naidu) and PMK (Vaiko - Kamma).

No wonder you're inviting Telugus back to Motherland with gracious hands.

[hanumadu]

Again, T folks always think land reforms would has stopped the costal ones from sell an acre in W.G to buy 10 acres in Nizamabad. But land reforms would have been decimated by Reddys and Velamas of T. It will be unfair to call coastal capitalists always as some villians. In the end all this economic rhetorical blame actually aligns perfectly with what Naxals preach day to day.

AFAIK, Land reforms did take place in Telangana or at least an attempt was made. That was the reason PVN was defeated by Janga Reddy for the hanamkonda lok sabha contituency in 1984. BJP was in alliance with TDP at that time and the land lords spared no effort to defeat him.

So it is true that coastal folks settled in Nizambad after doing a 10x trade of their land. What was the reason for their move? Were there new irrigation projects coming up in Nizambad? What kind of numbers are we talking about? 10's or 100's of acres? Clever, shows acumen on their part.

[SaiK]

Theo, if you look at the customs, practices, food, cooking, etc.. especially from the migratory analysis, you will find a lot of similarites, with either augmentation or mutated process/info change on these ways of living - from religious practices to even the ways we do things at home. mostly orthodox type of people who are now becoming extinct in desh.

carnatic music itself (only the name is karnataka aspect, is basically 80% telugu and 10% sanskrit, and 8% tamil and 2% malloo). but there is a larger group from TN who subscribe to carnatic than any other southern state. so, one can't just go about claiming and annexing states by being in that cultural aspect.. or do you? now we are getting murkier, as the boundaries are getting thinner and thinner.

[vina]

So are you saying Iyers and Iyengars are Telugus? (Iyer <= Ayya Varu = Arya People; Iyengar <= Ayyan Garu = Respectable Arya).

I am saying no such thing. The Tam Brahms are as Tam as anyone is, sure there probably were folks from Telugu speaking lands that merged with them.

So it was all fight between Telugu Brahmins and non-Brahmins in alien Dravidian land.

No!! It is actually Telugu speaking folks (all the DK/DMK types typically are Telugu in origin) accusing Tamil folks of being "alien" and some Sanskrit speaking / Proto Telugu speaking northerners . Classic case of pot calling kettle black.

All the Polygars (Palayakkarans) like Kattabomman who were Telugu are magically Tamil in the *MK universe. And of course VaiKo is More Tamil Than Yourstruly (MoTThay) ,while being Telugu!

We still have that Telugu continuity then - AIADMK (JJ - Kannadiga Iyengar), DMK (Vijay Kumar - Balija Naidu) and PMK (Vaiko - Kamma).

No wonder you're inviting Telugus back to Motherland with gracious hands.

Yes, yes. But then they will start fighting in Telugu instead and the others can get on in peace!

[Vayutuvan]

So it is true that coastal folks settled in Nizambad after doing a 10x trade of their land. What was the reason for their move? Was there new irrigation projects coming up in Nizambad? What kind of numbers are we talking about? 10's or 100's of acres? Clever, shows acumen on their part.

PV saab gave up 1000 acres in the lca enacted by IG. Nizamabad is because of sugarcane. Shakkarnagar unsurprisingly has a big sugar factory. Karimnagar is heavily settled by Gunturu farmers who used to grow tobacco - my info is oh about 25 years old.

[hanumadu]

PV saab gave up 1000 acres in the lca enacted by IG. Nizamabad is because of sugarcane. Shakkarnagar unsurprisingly has a big sugar factory. Karimnagar is heavily settled by Gunturu farmers who used to grow tobacco - my info is oh about 25 years old.

Unfortunately, not every body is a PVN.
10x trade is useless unless there was new water supply coming up. It wouldn't have been 10x if there was already water supply.

[vina]

carnatic music itself (only the name is karnataka aspect, is basically 80% telugu and 10% sanskrit, and 8% tamil and 2% malloo). but there is a larger group from TN who subscribe to carnatic than any other southern state. so, one can't just go about claiming and annexing states by being in that cultural aspect.. or do you? now we are getting murkier, as the boundaries are getting thinner and thinner.

Naah. There is a significant Kannda aspect in Carnatic music as well. The founder of Carnatic music, the guru for everyone else is Purandara Dasa, who composed in Kannada . Stuff like Bhagyada Lakshmi Baramma is 100% kannada.

So yes, Carnatic music is the shared cultural heritage of the southern part of KA (the old Mysore areas) , TN, Kerala and Andhra (coastal definitely, dont know about the old Hyd, maybe there a Hindustani influence might be there)

[ShyamSP]

Shradanjali to PVN Rao's son PV Ranga Rao, who is ex education minister of AP. A decent man in the ruckus of Andhra politics.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/p-v- ... 97380.html

[Sri]

I personally see a huge headache for me when Telengana is official. We have mobility and area mapping services for a large number of clients now we have add another state add cities, taluks and villages to it (easy part). Change core application with BIG line dividing Andhra which due to volumes we designate as Hydrabad and ROAP (Rest of AP). Trukers who keep a SIM for each state would have to update their records (we have to map these SIMS all over again). Dunno if clients will pay extra for this.

[manju]

carnatic music itself (only the name is karnataka aspect, is basically 80% telugu and 10% sanskrit, and 8% tamil and 2% malloo). but there is a larger group from TN who subscribe to carnatic than any other southern state. so, one can't just go about claiming and annexing states by being in that cultural aspect.. or do you? now we are getting murkier, as the boundaries are getting thinner and thinner.

Naah. There is a significant Kannda aspect in Carnatic music as well. The founder of Carnatic music, the guru for everyone else is Purandara Dasa, who composed in Kannada . Stuff like Bhagyada Lakshmi Baramma is 100% kannada.

So yes, Carnatic music is the shared cultural heritage of the southern part of KA (the old Mysore areas) , TN, Kerala and Andhra (coastal definitely, dont know about the old Hyd, maybe there a Hindustani influence might be there)

for the record..Purandara Dasa was patronised by Vijayanagar Kings who were in present day Bellary in North Karnataka

[Yagnasri]

NTR is not so bad gurus. He did some good things which has lasting impact on AP.
1. Identity was given to Telugu people and they are for the first time looked some one who is not a "madarasi"
2. Removal of Karanam - Patel/patwai system and heridiatory postings in villages. - This is a game changer as for as rural administration concerned.
3. Mandal system - Again improved rural administration.
4. Local body elections.
5. Stopping communal riots in Hyderabad during his entire rule except first year.
6. Serious efforts to create an alternative to INC at nation level which led to creation of NF. Attacks on INC during Bofors etc led to INC weakening. Destruction of INC solid base in AP also contributed to INC weakness.
7. Trans-portion to rural areas. Nationalization of bus service.
8. Primary and secondary education expantion with 40K special teachers getting appointed in the first year of his rule and continuous recruitment of teachers and school openings during his rule.

True there are many bad things about him. But he is not so bad like YSR etc.

[Yagnasri]

I think the Tallapaka Annamacharya is the oldest and first exponent of Carnatic Music. I am not sure if Purandadadasa is before him.Apart from Purandaradasa - Thyagaya, Muttu Swamy Dikshitar and Syama Shasri are the 3 main figures in Carnatic music. All of them are from present day TN area. We also need to understand that Carnatic area in those days may not be limited to present state and may cover entire Vijayanagara areas.

[Manish_Sharma]

I think Johnee ji's post also belongs here:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1490436

BJP has 2 MLAs now and for long used to win Hyd LokSabha seat. But not now, Support in rural ares isnot much. May win Mehboob Nagar with Nagam Janardhana Reddy. Major gains in 2014 may not be possible than that. It will not win a single MLA or MP seat in rest of AP.

This is a Goddess sent opportunity for BJP to capture AP. Kongis were in a jam in the AP. So, they are playing tricks there to divert people's attention from Kongi performance in last 10 years. So, they are playing with T(and consequently AP). For the first time, they have presented pro-separate T stance at center level. So far, they have been doing a careful balancing act without tilting either side after the Dec 9. But I don't think they will form T because
a) they don't have the numbers in assembly or parliament(without BJP) to push it
b) it is detrimental to kongis in the long run(i.e. next elections in 2017-2018).
c) kongis don't take any decisions. They only keep stoking the fires.

But, kongis are pretending to go with separate T. Fine. Now is the time for BJP to take pro-united AP stance. Why? Because, there is too much competition in T region. TRS and Kongis are trying for the same share. And it is not possible for BJP to compete with them at this stage. Even TDP is in a jam because they have also announced the pro-separate T stance. So, everyone is trying for the same share of votes.

That means, there is no one to represent the voices of pro-united AP in AP. And Yrus party is making the most of it. Jagan is being given a clean path to go ahead. But, even he has not really done anything dramatic to win the pro-unity voices.

So, BJP can capitalize on it. If BJP takes a pro-unity stance, then it stands to gain regardless of other factors. First and foremost, kongis are a national party and they have taken a pro-separate stance. Now, only a national party can match a national party. So, if BJP goes with a pro-unity stance, then it would be ek teer do nishan.

I think kongis started this tamasha because they were afraid of Modi coming to Hyd and taking a strong T stance. So, they tried to pre-empt him. Now, BJP can push the kongis into a corner and checkmate them by taking pro-unity stance. By such a move, BJP can gain in Coastal AP and Rayalaseema(and even in T because I think there are lots of people who are not in favour of separate T in T). So far, BJP has not made any gains despite taking staunch separate T stance.

And if BJP gains in AP(in coastal and seema), then that would be a big big jolt to kongi-system.

BTW, breaking AP is not at all good for the country or for telugu people. Remember that AP was formed in direct consequence to Dravidian movement. Formation of AP, deflated Dravidian movement in India, so it was exported into Lanka. IF, Goddess forbid, AP is broken, then it will re-ignite Dravidian movement in India. All the factors are still in place.

Then, there is another point. Separateness of T is based on erstwhile kingdoms. So, that will lead to another thing, sooner than later. Like separate Jaisalmer...etc. And such seperate movements near border areas(like Gurkhaland) will have a very negative impact.

Also, any out of power politician can stir up such movements. KCR took inspiration from Shibu Soren. Now, IF this goes through many more will take inspiration. I won't be surprised if 600 new states are formed in next 50 years. Because there is no dearth of power-hungry selfish politicians in desh.

Finally, it is the jihadi rule of Nizams is being used to project T as separate from rest of the Telugus. And this has all the tendencies of pakiness. Infact, this is very similar to partition and a new state will act like a paki state only trying to foster separateness by focusing on nizams(just like pakis focus on mughals). BTW, I am a telanganite(born and bred && through and through).

It is a wrong idea to think that all telanganites support separate T. Infact, the great mischief is the term 'seema-andhra'. The right term is 'seema-coastal andhra'. All the three regions T, seema and coastal are Andhra only. Disassociating from the identiy of Andhra itself is ignorance or worse pakiness. KCR and his gang(or more precisely his family) are already trying to exaggerate the slight differences that may exist. KCR has even praised Nizam. No wonder because people like him were imported by Nizam from coastal region to undermine the native T guys. If a seperate state gets formed, it will be worse. It is very recently that the system of Dhoras is getting undermined. A T state can regress in terms of social justice and again the advent of Dhoras may also happen. And of course, there will be political instability due to the smallness of the state, that means the minority votes will increase in value. Further, small new state will be vulnerable to naxals(like Jharkhand and Chattisgarh). So, that opens the opportunities for naxals to implement their plans of Thirupathi to Pashupathi.

All in all, this is not good for country or telugus or Hindhus. But, there seems to be no party that can take a stance in this regard. Everyone seems to be trying only for pro-seperate votes only(not just in AP). It is quite similar to how everyone is trying for minority votes. That means there is no competition for majority votes. Similarly, there is not competition for pro-unity votes(particularly in AP). So, BJP can take advantage of this situations. Even RSS is supposedly against seperate T state, and righly so. Because it is based on the legitimacy of jihadi state of Nizam.

I believe the kongis are only faking it, so as to divert, obfuscate and fool people(of both pro-separate and pro-unity sides). KCR and Jagan are kongi puppets just like Chiru. And CBN has failed spectacularly showing that he is not fit to play politics and he has been trapped. Just when the CBN was again raising, kongis open it again. They have been doing this for last 5 years, yet CBN has not caught on. Kongis have given worst rule in AP, especially the load-shedding(even in Hyd for 3-4 hours) everyday for 3 years. Yet, CBN is unable to capitalize on it. He seems to be mega-failure just like Advani at center. Just as BJP has come up with a new face, maybe TDP can go with a new face and change in policies.

The advantage that Modi has is that he has not spoken on T so far. So, he can easily justify a pro-unity stance. Because the leadership in BJP has changed, a change in stance can be justified. And I think the reason Modi has not come to Hyd, so far is because he was waiting for kongis to clear their stand one way or the other. Now, that kongis have done it, Modi can take opposite stand. There is a huge number of votes waiting to be taken, if BJP can take pro-unity stance.

I think the Kongi strategy is that they will pretend to go with pro-separate T. But, they will not form it. They will stop short of it. Then, they will ask for votes on it. TRS and Kongis will either merge or form an alliance. That will leave the field open for Jagan. And he will form a post-poll alliance. Thats the kongi strategy.

This strategy is based on the assumption that BJP is going pro-separate. So, kongis are also pro-separate. They have already played their hand. If in this critical juncture, BJP makes a new move, that too in coastal and seema area, it will be a disaster for the kongis. It seems like AP is going to be waterloo of kongis. But, the question is can BJP capitalize on this? And will telugus and country suffer as kongis destroy themselves?

In last elections, TRS had an alliance with TDP. BJP had gone very strongly with pro-separate T. Yet, all the three parties failed spectacularly in T region itself(not talk of rest of AP). Yet, no one seems to have learned any lessons. On the contrary, kongis got more MP seats than MLA seats. There was a perception that Kongis will not form T. This perception was further stoked by YSR who declared that visas would required to go to Hyd if a separate T is formed. The irony is that it was YSR who had played with separate T and formed alliance with TRS to defeat TDP. TDP tried to emulate YSR and kongis. They failed.

What does that show? Why did Kongis win more MP seats than MLA seats? Because, there is a strong pro-unity block that voted kongis because they were trusted not to give separate T. Now, the same block will vote for any party(particularly a national party) if it takes a pro-unity stance. People are quite intelligent to differentiate between MP elections and MLA elections. So, BJP can definitely hope to win at least 10 MP seats in AP, if it takes pro-unity stance now. And such a stance will also provide BJP with workers and leaders(who are already trying for united AP).

As I said, all the parties are only trying for pro-seperate votes. So, the politicians are also in a jam(specially in coastal and seema regions). If BJP, a national party, takes pro-unity stance, such people can jump ship to BJP. And it will be a big blow to kongis.

This move, right now, I think will be a master stroke. IF BJP can pull it off. At least, it should try. Instead of going with the same old failed formula. I don't think BJP can really get any seats in T region, now that kongis themselves have put up this new stand. And this new stand by kongis was put up precisely to stop any potential votes/seats going to BJP. Kongis are playing with a fear of Modi in their minds. That is making them do extra-ordinary things. Can BJP capitalize on this?

All the BJP leaders in T region are really jaded lot. And have not done anything. So, even if they are against such a change in stance, their voices can be ignored because they don't have much following in the first place. Even the seats that BJP has won in T, it had to heavily depend on TRS for it. And TRS is a kongi puppet out and out. So, it is like depending on kongis. And that is not a good strategy.

I think Modi should immediately go to coastal and seema regions and talk of pro-unity. This is an opportunity that will not come twice. It is times like these when people are ready to switch loyalties and BJP can be a beneficiary.

And BJP has enough arsenal to target kongis on this case. Because the bill cannot be passed in assembly. Many people are against it and their opinions are not being taken into consideration. Even the Sri Krishna commission did not take a pro-separate stance. Kongis did not present the bill all this while and wait till the elections come. Kongis are trying to hide behind this issue to skirt the issue of development, governance and corruption. All the states that were formed till now were formed in a sub-region that did not have the capital. So, by all the above points BJP can target the kongis and take a pro-unity stance. It will immediately bring them close to many people in AP. Even those who never looked at BJP as an option will think about it because there are not many choices for pro-unity votebank.

It was MP seats from AP that gave an edge to Kongis and allowed the UPA to survive all this while. So, no wonder, kongis are playing all these tricks on AP to preserve their power. Without AP, kongis cannot come to power in their present situation. And kongis have a really good thing going in AP because they don't have to compete with BJP in AP. And CBN has failed to check the kongis. He has been successfuly entangled by the kongis using proxies like KCR, Chiru and Jagan apart from low level kongis. On the other hand, BJP cannot hope to get into power without capturing the southern states. And this is such an opportunity. BJP was trying to get into AP through pro-separate stance. Now, BJP gets a chance, a clear field without much competition to get pro-unity stance votes. At the minimum, that means many votes from coastal and seema regions. They may even get votes form T region for this stance. Also, a strong hindutva stance will earn them votes, particularly in T region and especially in old city of Hyd. Add development and Modi, you have a very good combo.

I hope BJP has the good sense to see this opportunity instead of trying to compete with so many in T region for the same voteshare.

Also, the onus is on pro-separate party to present the bill and get it passed. On the other hand, the pro-unity party can simply vote against it and it is status quo. So, the job of pro-unity party is easier than the other side. So, BJP does not have to give anything new. All it has to do is to promise to vote against it in parliament, if it is presented in parliament and speak against it in public forums. Even if BJP continues with pro-separate stance and promises to vote in favour of separate state in parliament if a bill is presented, it will not get any credit. The credit will go to kongis and TRS. And both of them will either merge or form an alliance. Even otherwise, KCR will dance to the tunes of Maino. TDP and BJP will look like losers even if they vote in favour of separate T if the bill is presented in first place. Of course, TDP will not be able to make its MLAs and MPs from coastal and seema regions to vote in favour of separate state. And same will be the case with Kongis. Because there is extra-ordinary public pressure on the MPs and MLAs from coastal and seema regions.

In short, BJP stands to gain nothing from separate T stance. It has already tried and failed. And the number of competitors has only increased from last elections. So, better to change the stance specially and justify it on the basis of change in leadership(Modi).

Goddess forbid, If a separate T goes through, then sooner than later there will be calls for separate Vidharbha and separate Saurashtra. And separate states in Rajasthan based on erstwhile Rajputhana kingdoms. And kongis will be expected to play very enthusiastic role in it specially in stoking separate Saurashtra(which is similar to T because it is an arid area). Saurashtra like T can also claim to be backward. Of course, it has been proven that T is no more backward than other regions of AP. So, separate T can hit BJP in some of its states and one can trust kongis to do it.

Now that BJP has lost n Karnataka, it needs to urgently gain in another southern state. I think AP is ripe for the situation. The ploy should be a combination of pro-unity stance, development and hindutva. Hindutva in T region to counter MIM. pro-unity stance for coastal and seema regions. And development and governance to take on the dismal rule of kongis and their allies. Such a combination will be very effective. By such a strategy BJP can rise in AP in next 10 years. On the other hand, if it sticks to its losing strategy, then it cannot blame people for not voting it in(whether assembly or parliament).

[Yagnasri]

To win in AP you need massive money and good network and even some caste based support. They do not have it at present. BJP does not have it at present. So it may not win much now.

[Yagnasri]

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/telan ... 95733.html

So Shinde says 6 more months. No monsoon session voting one division of AP then why all this drama???

[ramana]

I think the Tallapaka Annamacharya is the oldest and first exponent of Carnatic Music. I am not sure if Purandadadasa is before him.Apart from Purandaradasa - Thyagaya, Muttu Swamy Dikshitar and Syama Shasri are the 3 main figures in Carnatic music. All of them are from present day TN area. We also need to understand that Carnatic area in those days may not be limited to present state and may cover entire Vijayanagara areas.

Thygayya's guruji was Sonti Ramamurthy. His descendant Sir S.V. Ramamurthy the former Governor of Madaras Presidency was the President of Thygaraja Gan Sabha in the 50s!

The Telugu spoken in deep south Tamil Nadu is ancient and is of the Chola- Chaulkya vintage.
From Pallavas on to the Nayakas the rulers were from Telugulands. The only Tamil rulers were the Pandyans on Madurai who brought the Delhi Sultanate forces during Khilji-Tughlaq times due to contested succession. Bukkaraya's son defeated the Madurai Sultanate and re-established the rule. Ref: Madura Vijayam by Gangadevi. Later Marathas established their kingdom in Tanjavuru and that is why you have Maratha ancestry Brahmins in TN.
The Telugu king of the remanant of Vijayanagara,Chandragiri, gave Chennaipatnam village to the British to establish their trading post. They established Fort St George and the rest we know. Ref: Tales of Old Madras by Hindu newspaper.


Read SK Sinha's lament on "Pataliputra lost" and think of the similar strands of history that led to current strains.


Also Narayana Rao garu, NTR broke the INC monopoly n Andhra Pradesh in all the regions. He showed how to form an alternate power center. Yes it was misused and abused.


CBN violated every precept laid down in the niti shastras on how a leader should behave. He made many enemies and isolated himself. Even now folks dont trust him as he is paranoid and a control freak. Instead of learning from the long defeat he became even more distant to the people. Misfortunately he is the leader of the only group that has a chance of opposing the INC.

[Muppalla]

Again, T folks always think land reforms would has stopped the costal ones from sell an acre in W.G to buy 10 acres in Nizamabad. But land reforms would have been decimated by Reddys and Velamas of T. It will be unfair to call coastal capitalists always as some villians. In the end all this economic rhetorical blame actually aligns perfectly with what Naxals preach day to day.

AFAIK, Land reforms did take place in Telangana or at least an attempt was made. That was the reason PVN was defeated by Janga Reddy for the hanamkonda lok sabha contituency in 1984. BJP was in alliance with TDP at that time and the land lords spared no effort to defeat him.

So it is true that coastal folks settled in Nizambad after doing a 10x trade of their land. What was the reason for their move? Were there new irrigation projects coming up in Nizambad? What kind of numbers are we talking about? 10's or 100's of acres? Clever, shows acumen on their part.

It is not just Nizamabad. We miss vishnua on this forum as he is not posting these days. The coastal farmers are all over the T villages. They either own lands or lease the lands to make money. There are allegations that the Naxals extract money only from T farmers and not from AP farmers in Telangana. Irony is Naxals want Telangana .

[ramana]

X-post...

Congress is brilliant in winning elections (and nothing else !). This time again they have created a good strategy and BJP doesn't have a chance of winning much in AP.

I think Congress strategy of winning AP is as below:
1) Telangana - 17 seats - All pro-T folks will vote for TDP. Congress will ally with TDP. UPA wins handsomely.

2) Rest of AP - 11 seats - This is very Chanakyian game here. Most of people here will hate Congress for their Telangana decision, so their votes will be go Congress' biggest opponent. It's Jagan. Case has been built up steadily to pretend huge differences between Congress and Jagan. So people vote for Jagan. Jagan will then allay with Congress later. Again UPA wins. BJP is nowhere in game.

UPA is shameless alliance. It can have Mayawati and Mulayam for sake of power, so it can have TDP and Jagan also. I don't think BJP has any clear strategy to counter this.

If BJP takes pro-T stance, it's vote share will STILL be less than TDP which is most aggressive proponent of T state. No chance in rest of AP as it will be less than Jagan's party.
if BJP take anti-T stance, it's vote share will be less than Jagan's party in rest of AP, and almost zero in T state.

Best strategy is what NaMO is doing - expose Congress methodology of working, and expose what Congress does and when it does. It's all about elections and nothing else.

and

NikhilB, some minor corrections to what you say. When you say TDP, probably you mean TRS in Telengana. Rest of AP has 25 seats (not 11).
Ya BJP does not have much chance here in T state. They can however not do a volte face on T at this stage. But probably Namo can stoke the fire in AP - T areas on corruption by cong, their political machination (T split not because of some real demand, only to shore up cong numbers), their opportunistic attitude ityadi.
This can be like Shri RJB movement, where after Mandal got introduced, BJP did not go with an anti Mandal yatra but with Shri RJB movement. Never uttered a word for or against mandal, but all the dissatisfied people with Mandal (mostly forward caste), jumped into BJP arms. BJP in a bang, from being a 2 MP party (actually it was 90 MP party then), went to become 160 and then eventually 180 people party, mostly in Cowbelt (where people had not even heard of BJP - UP and Bihar). The hatred was so much that even after RG was assasinated, in later phases of election these two states did not give any extra seats.
Can that happen in AP? Well they say, great flux in history comes when you ahve two things - situation and leader!! The situation is there, is there a leader? LKA and SS do not inspire confidence. Babu and Jagan are entrenched and have a higher chance, but one is Con Pilla (probably in Telgu means subset of Bigger set, in Hindi it means little demeaning but all the same) and other is a good PPT leader. Probably AP recons teh New Mahdi!! Let the new Mahdi rise!!

[Muppalla]

fanne post is very good from a strategy perspective. It needs to find threads to start and make an avalanche.

[ramana]

fanne, I think NikhilB means INC gets 11 out of 25 seats in ROAP!

[SaiK]

the sophisticated structuring to carnatic/indic music starts from yagnyavalkya days(2CE?).. persian invasions inflicted heavy casuality to the structure..11th century dibacle, and 12th century infliction..and separation of hindustani music... and the more object oriented structure came to be realized only during 14th century (ramamatya and later venkatamukhi - who really defined the basic sampoorana ragas (72 melakarta - meaning anything other than these structure, sounds not carnatic)- he gave a CRC card for the raagas). thanjavur and vijayanagar empire takes full credits for carnatic music stability and structure.

earlier to muslim/persian influence.. it was all asampurna melakartas.. basically has unidentified/classified notes that was not analyzed... and we have little information, as the guru-shishya parampara did not leave much structured information to the followership.

before that the raga tracability is extremely difficult.. we have to reach the origins all the way from 11th century backwards upto hymns, slokhas and sama veda origins.

[member_27444]

I think the Tallapaka Annamacharya is the oldest and first exponent of Carnatic Music. I am not sure if Purandadadasa is before him.Apart from Purandaradasa - Thyagaya, Muttu Swamy Dikshitar and Syama Shasri are the 3 main figures in Carnatic music. All of them are from present day TN area. We also need to understand that Carnatic area in those days may not be limited to present state and may cover entire Vijayanagara areas.

You are correct but dont forget the contribution Ramadasu aka Kancharla Gopanna of Bhadrachalam.
He is one of the Vaggya kara who gave inspiration to the trinity of St. Thyagaraja. MuthuswamY Dikishtar, Shyama sastry. Along with Swathi Thirnunal.

Both Shyama sastry and Muthuswamy dikishtar wrote hymns to Godess Parvathi and are heavy duty users of Samskrit unlike Annamacharya ramadasu and St. Thyagaraja who used combinnation Telugu and sanskrit, where as Vyasaraya/Purandara dasu wrote a blend of Sanskrith and Kannada.

Bhagyada Lashmi Baaramma, Krishna ne beganane baru both have Sanskrith nouns verbs but the conjugation of verbs are in Kannada....

just my ignorance

Kancherla Gopanna (Telugu: కంచెర్ల గోపన్న) (c 1620 – 1680), popularly known as Bhadradri Ramadasu or Bhadrachala Ramadasu(Telugu: భద్రాచల రామదాసు), was a 17th-century Indian devotee of Rama and a composer of Carnatic music.[1] He is one among the famous vaggeyakaras (same person being the writer and composer of a song)[clarification needed] in the Telugu language, the others being Tyagaraja, Annamayya, Kshetryya. He lived in the village of Nelakondapalli near Bhadrachalam, Andhra Pradesh during the 17th century and is renowned for constructing a famous temple for Rama at Bhadrachalam. His devotional lyrics to Rama are famous in South Indian classical music as Ramadaasu Keertanalu. Even the doyen of South Indian classical music Saint Thyagaraja learned and later improved the style now considered standard krithi form of music composition.He also wrote Dasarathi Shatakamu (దాశరధి శతకము) with a 'makuTamu' (మకుటము) 'Dasaradhee Karuna payonidhi' (దాశరధీ కరుణా పయోనిధీ!), a collection of nearly 108 poems dedicated to the son of Dasaratha (Lord Rama).

[SaiK]

I may be wrong in my approximation and understanding.

PS: also research on katapayadi system to get some links to the non melakarta traditions. < 14th century.

[Vayutuvan]

Not very knowledgeable about either of the Indian classical music systems - but aren't mELakarta rAgAs are those that have all the 7 swarAs - in some teevr and in some kOmal - during ArOha and avarOha in diiferent combinations? I haven't calculated but all possible combinations give us an upper limit of 72, I suppose. That is it, no more mELkarta rAgAs.

[shaardula]

del

[ramana]

matrimc, The author used to live in Boston MA.

Tonal Foundations of Indian Music:

Eshwara Narsinga Rao,

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1419664980

[SaiK]

mat, it is not a limit, but other than those 72, it does not belong to sampoorna category. it is also mentioned that (venkatamukhi should have done some sonic studies) other svaras does not yield muscial notes.. may be I am moorkh to explain why it would not be musical... again the context is the svarasthanas.

[shaardula]

del

[member_27444]

Vina saars strings were pulled and tied into knots or naughts in IITM by gultis students or professors? hence his glee at any discomfort to gultis, Some one in Delhi also seemed to have out smart(ed) his ideas with rustic wisdom of punjabi heritage, so ocasional eruptions (once in a while) against Delhi and NI

[shyamoo]

So it is true that coastal folks settled in Nizambad after doing a 10x trade of their land. What was the reason for their move? Were there new irrigation projects coming up in Nizambad? What kind of numbers are we talking about? 10's or 100's of acres? Clever, shows acumen on their part.

There was new dam project in Adilabad district and my dad was responsible for the planning the canal routes for those dams. Now, I could have made enormous amount of money by buying the land that would have easy access to the canal waters. Inside information cannot get any 'insider'. But neither my dad nor I had the capital ( my dad was seedha sadha non-corrupt civil engineer with a very good reputation, hence no money ) . By the time, I was able to get access to some capital, the prices went up by 10x . Guess who had the money and bought all the available lands with easy access to the proposed canals?

Additionally, people from non-telangana regions are not buying land just for agriculture. There are a lot of resources in T-region that can be exploited.

The problem, for T-region's people, has always been, as explained by Muppala saar, capital or the lack there of.

[SaiK]

you owuld be surprised how many hindustani enthusiasts are there in mysore and udupi for example.

sounds like there is a need for KA separation with music orientation - hindustani state vs carnatic one. pundit bhimsen joshi and hyd-ka regions perhaps might want this, vs. wodeyaric and iyengar based mysore music walas.

[devesh]

So Modi has decided to tour Kosta and Seema during August. In 5 major cities he intends to take out rallies.

And Kishan Reddy, the State BJP President, also from T, is saying that "Telangana is just one of the issues. Price rise, corruption, terrorism are MORE important."

I thunk BJP knows something about INC's plans, and whether they are actually serious or not.

And Doggy says the Bill wont be introduced till 2014.

Something is murky here. Its possible that INC HAS NO INTENTION TO SPLIT ANDHRA PRADESH at all.

[Muppalla]

Something is murky here. Its possible that INC HAS NO INTENTION TO SPLIT ANDHRA PRADESH at all.

It is a very dangerous path. Before leaving British actually did something like this to create partition. (Note- the analogy is only about creating strife and no relation to country division Vs state split)

If this is true my post on Modi thread in mid-July is true. Create 2009 December situation because TDP is reviving. Politically from 2003 onwards this T movement's only goal is to stop TDP.

Now see the situation, all the population (T and non-T) are not at all interested in seeing the treachery on them. One side is so bania and they cannot see anything beyond Hyderabad and capital. The other side is also blind and don't see "anything beyond separation" as most important.

TDP played it smart and at the least the opposition politicians know the game. Stopping the separation or creating the separation is all responsibility of Congress only. 14 TDP MLAs resigned not as a protest of separation but due to lack of clarity and haste announcement.

Basically irrespective of division, INC has taken the side of Telangana before polls.

Added later:
Modi was always ambiguous and his latest letter also is not like RNS and Sushma/Gadkari/Advani. But what is the point in touring costa? I think the TOI article is a plant.