INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 12 Aug 2013 17:33

nachiket wrote:The pictures thing is beyond funny now. Every guy reporting about it is searching random submarine pics on the Internet and choosing the one he/she likes as the Arihant. Even Sandeep Unnithan, the guy who gave us the one real pic four years ago couldn't control himself.

That business about being noisy is utter crap as well. It may very well be noisy considering that it is our first effort, but no journalist would actually have any real data about it to say that so confidently.

+1 Sir Ji

When the power plant has gone critical last week and sea trials not even started. I am sure Navy is not even measuring such finer things right now. Abhi to dupki laga ke bahar aanaa hi check hoga.

Since this is India's first such boat, I am sure NO one outside India know's it's heat, sonar signatures.

All this hush hush is important. Creates doubts in enemy's mind.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Aug 2013 17:37

RajitO wrote:Folks...it's Sandeep Unnithan not Unnikrishnan. Let us not go the DDM way!

My bad but these days one hardly finds an Indian reporter whose name is worth remembering

sombhat · Post by **sombhat** » 12 Aug 2013 17:50

Lilo wrote:
RajitO wrote:Folks...it's Sandeep Unnithan not Unnikrishnan. Let us not go the DDM way!
My bad but these days one hardly finds an Indian reporter whose name is worth remembering

The mistake is understandable, Sandip Unnikrishnan is a much more famous name, specially for BRFites.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Aug 2013 17:52

RajitO wrote:Folks...it's Sandeep Unnithan not Unnikrishnan. Let us not go the DDM way!

DDMitis seems to be contagious!

Anyway, I corrected the name. Sri, can you edit the quoted post as well?

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 12 Aug 2013 17:57

^^^ Done

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Aug 2013 23:00

A rose by any name smells the same!

But stink has to be named to avoid in future.

The Joyti Malhotra article is written badly. She wants to be prod of the INS Arihant but the wrie-up has factual mistakes and too clver by half language which overall detracts.

The key point she is saying is with the 700 km range B05 missile and the fact that being first of the class with potential detection thresholds, it cant be much of a deterrent till later on when the K4 shows up and future boats would be quieter.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 12 Aug 2013 23:35

Singha wrote:only reason could be if it has more than 4 silos claimed. maybe 6 maybe 8. that would drive new excel sheet computations in hostile corners of the world.

Could it result in more brown pants ??? Ha aha hahaha

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Aug 2013 23:44

Naval Buildup in Asia’s Game of Thrones

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... f-thrones/

India recently passed a major milestone in the development of its blue-water navy: The country’s first nuclear-powered submarine successfully activated its reactor yesterday. As The Hindu reports, the sub—named the Arihant—is the first of four, all of which of the subs will carry K-15 missiles which can be launched from underwater and carry a nuclear warhead and hit targets up to 700 kilometers away.The Arihant makes India the second power in the region with nuclear submarines, joining China. It’s also the latest in a flurry of naval building throughout Asia: Japan recently launched its largest ship since WWII, China appears to be working on a second full-sized aircraft carrier and Australia and Japan are considering an agreement to share submarine technology of their own. India’s new nuclear submarine fleet has been under development for 25 years and seems to be aimed at least as much towards providing second-strike deterrence towards Pakistan as towards China. Nonetheless, the subs are sure to make waves in a region in the grips of a serious naval arms race.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 12 Aug 2013 23:47

Singha wrote:she has special sensors to say the Arihant is very noisy and what its top speed is well before it does proper sea trials!
this when not even 1 proper pic is released, let along any credible data on its performance.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Aug 2013 00:08

there are people in desh who can predict future!

btw, I did warn that will become a humor thread if you continue on that BS article.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Aug 2013 14:15

^^ Touching article by someone from the Arihant project in his blog:

Shark made of Steel...India's first N-Sub

Two years back, I saw a structure in the dock with awe. I saw a structure of metal and materials. An Engineering marvel, I thought: without realizing what impact it would have few years down the line. My feeling of awe only grew as the days progressed.

Through these years, I contributed my bit to it, with pride, thinking that the ocean would be short of that drop had it not been there.

Few months later, it started taking the shape of a ‘whale’ like silhouette... a giant being. I always used to wonder. It seemed that it is lying there poised for a blaze. It was just a plate indeed when visionaries envisioned it to become something else with the first plate cut 10 odd years ago.

We made a giant out of those plates, stuffed it with heart and veins, blood and muscle with all our sweat and passion.

Slowly we realized the structure growing to a lady who would ensue into a mother who carries the men beneath the seas with a mission to protect the entire nation. But for us all, she is our baby. Well, the structure - it is no more it... It had become She.

With the the nation eagerly waiting for her to float, she seemed to be like a bride of steel with her hull painted, all set to leave.

With all the grace she floated, leaving a spark of joy in the all of us. She sat back beautifully on her supports, relaxing for the D-day. The structure of metals seemed to have taken life in all our hands on that day. Couple of days later, she had to move away from the dock. The entire nation was waiting for the news that ‘she is launched’.

She moved out with all the glory that day christened as INS Arihant, the destroyer of enemies which had its epoch all over the world.

It was a joyous moment for the nation, yet tears filled in our eyes when she moved out. Emotions can rein deep with metals as well!!

It was a strange feeling- as if some one dear to us is leaving us... She is nonchalant as she moved, as if emotion was unnoticed. We then realized that she’s on a great mission…

We gave birth to a mother …

You seldom get to say “Same to you” when some one says “Congratulations”. It happened with us all in the team that day… 26th of July, 2009 is one day that all of us would cherish to be one of the best moments, when we paid tributes to our mother land. That day, INS Arihant, India’s first indigenous Nuclear Submarine had touched not Water but our Sweat….

Posted 13th November 2009 by GP

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Aug 2013 15:05

Ajit.C wrote:This is utter crap
The ATV project was launched as long ago as 1974 in the wake of the India-Pakistan war in 1971 when the US nuclear submarine, the USS Enterprise, sneaked into the Indian Ocean and the Soviets sent in one of their own to warn the Americans. The then prime minister Indira Gandhi was said to have been considerably impressed by the power of the nuclear submarine to change the course of a war, and ordered the beginning of the ATV project in 1974.

how did an aircraft carrier become a sub ?

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Aug 2013 15:08

Prithwiraj wrote:Just don't get this whole secrecy around Arihant... what is there to hide?

unless it is a full fledged boomer with one more zero for displacement

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 13 Aug 2013 15:13

kit wrote:
how did an aircraft carrier become a sub ?

you're lucky they didn't call it the starship enterprise

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Aug 2013 17:04

From the editorial in The Hindu, "Strategic Milestone",

The full fleet, according to reports, will include seven such boats over a decade.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Aug 2013 17:54

the public revealing that 3 more (rather than 2 more) subs are under construction or planned is new.
the 2nd and 3rd hulls must already be under work in vizag given the full support given to this pgm. sounds like 4 Arihants and 3 "Le troimphant" types(12-16 tubes)

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Aug 2013 18:14

bureaucrat to minister .. ' sirji .. with all the problems in getting a second line of subs..why dont we have an all nuclear submarines.. better aip i think sirjee ? ' minister ..' what aip ..madame said only nuklear ..am unclear what u r talking about

'

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Aug 2013 18:20

Singha wrote:the public revealing that 3 more (rather than 2 more) subs are under construction or planned is new.
the 2nd and 3rd hulls must already be under work in vizag given the full support given to this pgm. sounds like 4 Arihants and 3 "Le troimphant" types(12-16 tubes)

That would throw a lot of our eastern neighbour's 'strategic' calculations out of the window ! From a pivot state india can progress to a direct adversary !

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 13 Aug 2013 18:22

what happened to the scorpenes? is it still alive?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Aug 2013 18:26

The "700KM range of the K-15" is clearly bogus.The actual range cannot ever be revealed.Let's keep the enemy guessing.From the missile size and knowledge of N-warhead size,those knowledgeable can work out a more realistic range.That the second and third subs are in the works is also old news ,revealed when the ATV was launched.But one factor is essential,that the future subs will have to have more missile silos along with MIRV warheads for our sub-launched strat. deterrent to be taken seriously.In the Paki context,our mobile land based and air delivered N-weapons will suffice.It lacks strat. depth,which is why it lusts after Afghanistan,desires to control it,where it can hide part of its N-deterrent,safe from Indian attack.

In the Chinese context,one must compute the distance from India's eastern coastline (where our eastern N-sub base will be located),and southern IOR regions, to the farthest Chinese target.That should be the approx. range of our future ICBMs,around 5000+km. In other words,an IN SSBN should in the imminent danger of a N-crisis,leave port/base and launch within minutes.Colombo-Beijing via the 'great circle" is approx. 5000km./From Bombay/west coast of India,say Karwar,the distance would be the same,or slightly less.Therefore a min. range of 5000km for our ICBMs will determine the missile size ,silo dimensions and size of SSBN.

PS:Scorpenes,still surviving after stinging itself!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Aug 2013 18:28

kit wrote:how did an aircraft carrier become a sub ?

art of war to art of communication is difficult job, and mostly the journos are not strategists nor arm chairs.

normally, a/cs don't travel alone... on surface, below and above.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Aug 2013 18:30

once the desi Le Troimphants come online in next decade the 4 arihants will be freed up to revert to their original strike and hunter killer role...using 12xnirbhay in VLS + more in the torpedo room(30-40 heavy weapons). strike power equal to that of Yasen and virginia sized subs.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 13 Aug 2013 19:31

rediif used to have cozy Joseph as Def correspondent now cozy is in TOIlet

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 13 Aug 2013 19:44

kit wrote:how did an aircraft carrier become a sub ?

The Transformers

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 13 Aug 2013 21:02

What is potential launch date for INS Aridhaman? End of the year? According to some reports it is currently going through out-fitting.

nash · Post by **nash** » 13 Aug 2013 21:20

Singha wrote:the public revealing that 3 more (rather than 2 more) subs are under construction or planned is new.
the 2nd and 3rd hulls must already be under work in vizag given the full support given to this pgm. sounds like 4 Arihants and 3 "Le troimphant" types(12-16 tubes)

if it is excluding akula(s), then it will very much compensate the depleting fleet of conventional submarines in coming decade.

By 2024:

7-9 Nuke subs and ~15 conventional subs

It may not be big fleet but will have lot of punch.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Aug 2013 21:47

Singha wrote:the public revealing that 3 more (rather than 2 more) subs are under construction or planned is new.
the 2nd and 3rd hulls must already be under work in vizag given the full support given to this pgm. sounds like 4 Arihants and 3 "Le troimphant" types(12-16 tubes)

GD, in this very thread there is a post that talks of the long range plans for the Arihant and follow on class.
The K5 is for the follow on class.
And deployment is Southern Indian Ocean to provide all azimuthal coverage.

Three boats will allow two boats at sea(one at station) with one in dock.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Aug 2013 21:53

sum, In 2001 I met a young IN person who is naval architect (IITD) moved from hq to be near the docks. I asked why so late/ he said its fleet not one boat coming up.
He must be very senior now or else retired.

vila · Post by **vila** » 13 Aug 2013 21:53

Heard from someone in pvt sector building the subs 2 and 3 are same like the 1st. so dont know whether there will be more missile silos.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Aug 2013 21:54

In class is three boats of type.

Old IN dictat for industrial scale.

vila · Post by **vila** » 13 Aug 2013 22:06

ok may be for economy reasons for tooling and other things. May we will designing an attack sub now

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Aug 2013 22:14

arihant is a attack sub. its as big in length and weight as the 688 los angeles class and smaller than virginia/seawolf/yasen.
just remove the K4/K15 and replace with brahmos if you want a pure-play ship killer.
if you want to retain LACM then use 12xnirbhay.

the 688 class also has 12 VL tubes for tomahawk in the newer lot.

we are instead probably designing the desi Le Troimphant class with 12-16 tubes of K5. it would need two reactors of arihant size or a upsized single reactor and weigh in around 12,000t.

both france and Uk have settled on 4 SSBNs as their deterrent. so likely we need to plan for 4 not 3. this will give the ability to usually send 2 boats on the attack in a emergency.

vila · Post by **vila** » 13 Aug 2013 22:16

arihant with slbms is a boomer yes smaller than conventional ones.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 13 Aug 2013 22:59

a recent article had stated that India's plan is to have 5 SSNs and 5 SSBNs.

OK, found the article:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/arih ... 98902.html

Sections of a second submarine, to be named Aridaman are already at an advanced stage of outfitting at the Ship Building Centre (SBC) in Vizag. Sources indicate the submarine could be launched by next year. Sections of a third submarine are also under construction at the Larsen & Toubro's Hazira facility. The three SSBNs have been under construction under a secret navy-DRDO-Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) project called the 'Advanced Technology Vessel' (ATV) project. India's strategic plans call for a fleet of five nuclear powered attack submarines (SSN) and five ballistic missile submarines (SSBN), a goal that is unlikely to be achieved before 2025.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 14 Aug 2013 07:08

Marten wrote:btw, the BS updated the article so that USS Enterprise is now back to being an aircraft carrier. Quick transformation.

Well, let us test out whether the so called journalist is using BR criticism to fix blatant errors.

Here's another set of glaring errors

Its design is based on the Russian Akula-1 class submarines, of which the best-known example is the INS Chakra, a nuclear submarine first leased by India from the Soviet Union for three years in January 1988, and leased again from the Russians in 2011.

1st INS Chakra was Akula-1?

The current INS Chakra is Akula-1? Leased again? What a moron! It is not the same sub because it is called INS Chakra. Sadly, so lazy to not even bother cross-checking with Wiki before publishing stupid articles.

How does she know it is noisy? IN does not know whether or not it is noisy because it has not been through sea trials yet -- and she knows it? Some intuitive scientific capability or sad lazy writing?

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 15 Aug 2013 21:02

INS Aridhman to be launched later this year.

Later this year, a naval shipyard in Visakhapatnam will launch the INS Aridaman, the Arihant’s sister ship. The hull of another unnamed submarine (likely to begin with ‘A’, much as Indian aircraft carriers begin with ‘V’) is being prepared.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 16 Aug 2013 13:59

^ Ripudaman should also be a good name as it has same meaning as Arihant and Aridaman

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 16 Aug 2013 14:11

It has to start with 'A'

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 16 Aug 2013 16:02

Arinirmoolan, Arinasham etc

kit · Post by **kit** » 16 Aug 2013 18:06

INS AJEYA ..AJATASATRU ..ANDHAKA ..ANJALIKA ..