West Asia News and Discussions

[eklavya]

But then Assad gasses 1400 people in their sleep. Now, what do you do?

But I thought even British MPs had stopped hawking that particular untruth (that Assad's regime used CWs) now that proof points the way to the rebels carrying that with US-UK help?

Sanku, Assad has committed a terrible crime against humanity, and except for the gentleman (loosely defined) who flies with baby cranes, this particular fact is not disputed by anyone with half an ounce of credibility. The only thing being debated is whether the West is prepared to pay the very heavy price required to get rid of Assad and replace him with a half-way-acceptable regime.

[member_27444]

Nobody in the world dare talk about Israel which is million pound elephant in the room

[member_27444]

Nobody in the world dare talk about Israel which is million pound elephant in the room

Botha committed many crimes in SA

Canadian general when asked for help in Rawanda was denied logistics to stop massacres guess by who

However, the assassination of Habyarimana in April 1994 proved to be the catalyst for the Rwandan Genocide, the commonly quoted death toll for which is 800,000.

[Johann]

Johann ji,

As the Arab world was ripe for change .. It would have changed by itself - through violence or otherwise a new social compact between all its population could have been organically achieved.
What was the justification for West and Wahabis to intervene with barbaric Ideology supported by money material and weapons on behalf of one group (Sunnis) with an aim to establish their hegemony while threatening all the other groups ex Shia , Kurds , Coptics etc to fall in line or face the terror ?

Change is the natural order but why impose it from outside (with fancy names) while exporting throat cutting ideologies to radicalize and divide people based on some geopolitical objectives ?

Lilo,

Smart governments negotiate with their people. Shooting them shuts down the option of dialogue, and opens up the space to everyone else to intervene. This is a huge mistake if you don't have a North Korea like set up where the population is utterly isolated.

The bottom line is that modern technology means is very difficult to have a dictatorship that fails to cultivate the support of its masses and be open to the world at the same time. Even the PRC understands that censorship and tanks are not enough anymore - it has to deliver jobs and economic growth, and it has to tolerate a certain level of protest and dissent by the ethnic majority before it starts shooting. It can not treat the Han majority like Tibetans and Uighurs. Once again Bashar and his coterie were too young, dim and spoiled to realise these things.

I personally regard the Saudi and Qatari influence on the Arab Spring as a profound tragedy that hijacked demands for change, just as I regard Khomeini's hijacking of the Iranian revolution to be a profound tragedy and a missed opportunity. The Saudis and Emirati royal families are in particular hijacking the Arab Spring because they quite rightly understand that left unchecked, it would spread to their own countries and threaten their rule. A widespread successful transition to accountable government anywhere in the Arab world would spell doom for most of the world's last absolute monarchies.

That 2-way interconnectedness is why that the influence of extremist Islam in either Iran 1978-81 or Syria 2011-onwards can be treated as a purely external thing. Syria had a huge Sunni Islamist rebellion 1976-82, although back then the rebellion came from a different class of Sunnis - the urban and upper middle class instead of the larger rural and lower middle class. The Saudis and Qataris are also Arabs, however different they may be from the Syrians. Mecca's biggest business even before Islam was as a trade hub between the Romanised Arabs and Semites of Syria and the Indian Ocean. The Saudis must influence what happens in Egypt and Syria, or they will have to be influenced by the places that are real intellectual centres of the Arab world.

[vishvak]

So the idea is that anyone involved in chemical weapons attack would be a fair target along with backers?

Or is it just to attack Assad because of Chemical Attack excuse and to ignore backers of al-mobs and their backers even after Chemical attack?

[habal]

If this is the feeling in Russia, then Obama's Syrian sojourn is not going to end well for the rest.

The situation over the Syrian conflict is becoming tense. According to the head of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy, Information Technologies and Communications, Alexei Mitrofanov, the war against Syria has been provided in the informational space for a long time. The speaker thinks that the U.S. is testing new technologies in Syria, which they will later use against Russia.

1 September 2013 - 12:34pm
Alexei Mitrofanov: “First Syria, then Iran and Russia”

http://vestnikkavkaza.net/video/44560.html

[Johann]

^^^^
Johann, how can you possibly conflate crony-capitalism / kleptocracy / nepotism / family-army-controlled-monopolies, zero political rights, and unstable property rights with "neo liberalism". Just shocking!

Because that is exactly how neo-liberalism actually ends up working in places (including democracies) where there is a weak rule of law, and the masses' access to fair representation within the legal system is limited or non-existent.

Capitalism without a strong and effective legal framework that protects the 'little guy' will inevitably lead to entrenched social, economic and ultimately political conflicts.

[eklavya]

Amyrao, the terrorist army of Pakistan which has killed and which is plotting to kill tens of thousands of Indians and which protected OBL and KSM is armed and funded by the US. The terrorist war criminal Pakistan army killed millions of civilians in Bangladesh / erstwhile East Pakistan. Their role today and for the past 30+ years in Afghanistan is alo utterly criminal, yet they have US support.

We all know that the US acts in its own perceived interests, and that morality is a sideshow.

The trouble with Assad's crime is that if no one reacts to it, it makes the US/West look utterly cynical and undermines their human rights rhetoric on a global scale.

It's perfectly possible that that is exactly what the US Congress will do after 9 Sep, and many here will applause.

It would be quite something to witness Republican lawmakers vote against action against Assad on the 12th anniversary of 9/11.

[habal]

lol

[Sanku]

Sanku, Assad has committed a terrible crime against humanity, and except for the gentleman (loosely defined) who flies with baby cranes, this particular fact is not disputed by anyone with half an ounce of credibility. The only thing being debated is whether the West is prepared to pay the very heavy price required to get rid of Assad and replace him with a half-way-acceptable regime.

I think it is obvious that the west is lying. A poll on this issue on BRF will perhaps get one vote in US-UK favor, that of yours. Care to name a single poster who believes in the assertions apart from yourself (Johann does not count)?

As I said, even the UK parliamentarians dont say this after they chickened out post the russian threat.

[chanakyaa]

^^^^
Pipe from where to where carrying what? If Assad goes, the successor regime will be sunni affiliated. Why would shia Iraq send its oil through a sunni controlled Syria? Does not add up. Syria is not about oil.

A sunni ruled Syria would not be allied with Iran or Hizbollah, which is why both are supporting the Assad regime to the hilt, and a sunni ruled Syria would leave both Hizbollah and Iran increasingly isolated with limited room for manoeuvre.

Now, that is the bottom line. Iran is next on the list, but before that Syria (for no direct benefits) must be incapacitated/weakened so that when the time comes to attack Iran, no other country joins them. This would minimize the damage to world commerce and financial markets (and oil prices).

[eklavya]

Capitalism without a strong and effective legal framework that protects the 'little guy' will inevitably lead to entrenched social, economic and ultimately political conflicts.

Agreed. Point in case being France.

[Johann]

Sanku,

Medecins Sans Frontiers (MSF) which opposes western intervention in Syria and anywhere else in the world, and which often works with regimes and movements utterly opposed to the West has confirmed that it alone has dealt with 355 deaths and 3600 injured from what appears to be nerve agent poisoning in the Damascus area. This is an addition to video footage from many different sources of people clearly wounded and dying from some sort of toxic exposure.

You can blame the rebels, or you can blame the regime, and you can argue over what should or shouldn't be be done about it, but the fact that chemical agents are being used in the conflict is not really in question any more.

[Gus]

Assad heads a socialist Baath party whose ideology is secular Arab nationalism - which last time I checked treats both Sunnis and Shia equally - as arabs.

you'll make a great damascus dan.

West can't stand such nationalistic ideologies - as opposed to religious ones like Wahabbism which is its preferred poison to control people (wahabism is simple onlee - make one Family your bi**h (al-saud) and the rest will automatically fall in place).

i get it now. wahab is a western plant.

Saddam(a sunni) massacred Shia,Kurd and Sunni... Under the watch ful eye of West and with funding from Gulf Sunni Sheikhs. Yet one of the main reasons Saddam was dispatched was because inspite of all his misdeeds on behalf of West as a mercenary against Iran he too is a baathist and espoused Arab nationalism.

i have heard many many theories on neocon pushing iraq war. this is a new one.

It all makes great sense to me now.

In comparision Younger Assad is a better dictator in many ways and Syria till recently used to be a middle income nation with strong social security and welfare state in place ....

You could have said this a few years ago and I would have emigrated to this lovely place against all the other news and media which are all western agenda driven.

BTW,
SaudiBarbaria is a minority Wahhabi state ruling majority camel and goat herders by force - why doesn't Massa liberate it and rationalize its colonial borders along Shia Sunni lines for once ..? (

first off, i am not a representative for massa.

i know that is obvious. i mean it should be obvious. but one never knows these days. i want to save myself and this page of multi paragraphed 1000 word post raking me over the coals and i end up adding a few more to my ignore list where some illustrious jambavans reside.

second off, ksa is majority sunni and afaik, camel herding and goat herding is not a religion. i could be wrong. there are some tribal experts and hinduism in kaaba experts here who may tell me otherwise..

why should massa liberate ksa. it's been a fantastic 100 years for massa ksa partnership for mutual interests. are they nuts to interfere in ksa?

maybe i should just slink back into my hole. most of these posts in many brf thread these days are just WHOOOOOOOOOOSH......over my head.

[eklavya]

Johann does not count

Did he go to a dodgy maths lecture?

As I said, even the UK parliamentarians dont say this after they chickened out post the russian threat.

What did the Russians threaten to do; sell their houses in Mayfair and Kensington? Where will they go when their own masses come for their heads.

[Philip]

Kerry's asinine statement that Britain is "no longer a world power" betrays his total ignorance of the word and meaning .Behaving like a street bully and beating up a smaller fellow is anything but being "powerful".Kerry is the diplomatic equivalent of Al Capone.With such a cretin US Sec. of State,be e assured that the US will suffer even more humilating cock-ups .Do you know the glib statistic that the US has just given to us? That the August death toll in Iraq was "800"! And how did this sorry figure come about? By the US's barbaric invasion of Iraq,akin to the Nazi invasion of Europe,and the setting up of similar concentration camps just like the Nazis (who were bankrolled by the Bush family in yesteryear) at Abu Ghraib and Camp Gitmo and in other numerous secret "rendition" camps worldwide in nations who acre little for human rights.This from the so-called leader of the democratic "free world".What a sick joke!

In fact because of its parliament saying NO so emphatically,Britain stands taller today and has earned more respect from the global community.And who swiftly copied Britain? Mighty Germany and NATO! So much for cretinous Kerry.Now even his boss B.Hussein O'Bomber is emulating Cameron and seeking his House's approval before letting fly from his fly! If the man had any ghoulies of note,he would've just let fly.He now needs the fig leaf of Congressional approval to cover his impotency , to ensure that his writ runs in Syria and the Middle East,where two formidable,sorry,three formidable obstacles stand in his way,Russia,China and Iran. The defeat of Uncle Sam and his armed forces in Iraq, Afghanistan-where they were unable to change the political landscape of the two nations,which was the fundamental purpose of military action in the first place,has haunted the once most powerful nation on earth the Brits. They fought two Afghan wars indecisively when the sun never set on their empire.The third one and the disaster of Iraq has given them uncommon wisdom,which has yet to penetrate the thick skulls of the obtuse in the White House,Pentagon and State Dept.Long may they continue to wallow in ignorance,not however at the expense of other nations.

[symontk]

^^^^
Pipe from where to where carrying what? If Assad goes, the successor regime will be sunni affiliated. Why would shia Iraq send its oil through a sunni controlled Syria? Does not add up. Syria is not about oil.

A sunni ruled Syria would not be allied with Iran or Hizbollah, which is why both are supporting the Assad regime to the hilt, and a sunni ruled Syria would leave both Hizbollah and Iran increasingly isolated with limited room for manoeuvre.

Actually, it is also about oil, please see the map. Currently Russian oil pipelines dominate Europe's energy supply. Once Syria falls under a Sunni leader, the Saudi oil can flow thru Jordan, Syria & Turkey to Europe. As you mentioned, the oil pipelines could have passed thru Iraq but maybe Saudi doesn't think its quite safe to do that

Additional advantage is that Syria will amenable to Israel at least to the level of Saudi so that US can have a better control over the Mideast situation. Now that Egypt and Libya are "occupied" with their issues, this would benefit Israel

But one thing that quizzed me was that, US is not having any forces in Iraq, Turkey and Jordan to attack Syria? Only airforce and navy positions are shown in the newspapers. Didn't these govts allow US forces to stage the attack from their countries?

[Lilo]

Gus ji,
If you are confused you should stop trying to read more and more and start trying to think by yourself - worked for me - at least I am not feeling confused ... regrettably I can't make others less or more confused than they already are ...

Same coolaid about oppression was being sold on the eve of Iraq invasion to justify it ... But I guess you would prefer that I rather not bring it up.

I raised massa liberation of KSA because Sunni are infact oppressing Shia there and according to you that is a legitimate cause for invasion - so first KSA then Syria please..

Gus ji I don't think you wouldn't find any of the turd world to be to your liking - I guess its Massa then for you - no dust no dirty politics and every thing in Black and White , Clean and Clear etc..

[habal]

But one thing that quizzed me was that, US is not having any forces in Iraq, Turkey and Jordan to attack Syria? Only airforce and navy positions are shown in the newspapers.

& that is the means and the end for these wars.

Post-Iraq, ground attack has been outsourced to Al-Qaeda as spear-tip and local rebels as spear shaft. Both these groups in turn are led by Spec-Ops types and ex-black ops private contractors acting as eyes and ears for Al-Qaeda as well as direct link to their handlers.

this is cheapest way yet to destabilize countries.

a condition of constant economic turmoil benefits such deployment, where countries due to years of economic downturn are ripe for division, destabilization & annexation. There is deep work going on, though from the surface, it just seems as if a bully is imposing itself on various situations.

[Surya]

rotfl at Kerry talking about international norms of last 100 years

really you forgot a little thing called Nam

man looks uncompfortable - he was happy surfing and lazing in new england shores - these damn tasks that require you to maintain a national ego

[Surya]

MSF etc all can be infiltrated at will and are when needed by all alphabet agencies

Niran posted some factual info - no one ( from the assad did this true believer camp is answering that)

[Johann]

Niran posted some factual info - no one ( from the assad did this true believer camp is answering that)

The question of whether a chemical attack took place is different from who is responsible for it.

Well I can only assume that's because no one else (including Niran) from any 'camp' seems to have had the energy to actually look or think for themselves.

Foaming at the mouth was observed in the 1995 Aum Shinrikyo Sarin attack on the Tokyo metro
http://www.theguardian.com/world/1995/m ... tinwalker1

The exact symptoms depend on the amount of exposure to the agent - this is also well known and in the public domain. Look at the health effects sections here;
https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencyprep ... nerve.html

http://www.opcw.org/about-chemical-weap ... ve-agents/

Plus the implied denial that a chemical attack took place is ridiculous - even the Assad government acknowledges one took place, but insist the rebels are responsible.

I simply don't see how all of this could be faked given that medical reporting is coming from hospitals and clinics in government controlled areas of Damascus as well. Once again, MSF is making no claims about who employed the agents, and has also condemned any move to use these reports as a basis for military action

http://www.msf.org/article/syria-thousa ... ported-msf

Since 2012, MSF has built a strong and reliable collaboration with medical networks, hospitals and medical points in the Damascus governorate, and has been providing them with drugs, medical equipment and technical support. Due to significant security risks, MSF staff members have not been able to access the facilities.

“Medical staff working in these facilities provided detailed information to MSF doctors regarding large numbers of patients arriving with symptoms including convulsions, excess saliva, pinpoint pupils, blurred vision and respiratory distress,” said Dr Bart Janssens, MSF director of operations.

Patients were treated using MSF-supplied atropine, a drug used to treat neurotoxic symptoms. MSF is now trying to replenish the facilities’ empty stocks and provide additional medical supplies and guidance.

MSF etc all can be infiltrated at will and are when needed by all alphabet agencies

Individual members can be recruited or infiltrated in any organisation - but the fact that MSF is trusted enough to be allowed to operate by parties in conflict with each other all over the world, including some very paranoid groups tells you a lot about how independent it is as an organisation. What they care about is delivering medical assistance, not politics, and that is their asset.

[Surya]

Plus the implied denial that a chemical attack took place is ridiculous - even the Assad government acknowledges one took place, but insist the rebels are responsible.

I simply don't see how all of this could be faked given that medical reporting is coming from hospitals and clinics in government controlled areas of Damascus as well. Once again, MSF is making no claims about who employed the agents, and has also condemned any move to use these reports as a basis for military action

please dont twist this

the argument here is whether this attack was done Assad's forces or the rebels (and their backers)


Obviously those who are paranoid are not paranoid enough when revelations come out years ago about some alphabet agency using a so called neutral org to infiltrate and carry its mission
thank you very much -

Once again, MSF is making no claims about who employed the agents, and has also condemned any move to use these reports as a basis for military action

ooohh now I believe everything they say or any other org .. sure

[member_27444]

I see lot children and women dying and are suffering in the chemical attack videos pictures
No men at all
Is it because women and children garner sympathy and emotions rise the passions?

Or is it against Islamic traditions that men are invincible even against chemicals?

It's sen McCain who said Britain is no longer super power

But France may take is place super duper power.?

Johann's opinion might carry more insight, please come in sir

[Johann]

Surya,

MSF has made no claims about who launched the attack, so I'm not sure why you've raised questions about its reliability here. Similarly I may have read you wrong but it seemed as if you were questioning whether they symptoms they were reporting were actually consistent with nerve agents.

That is why I thought you may be questioning whether or not a chemical attack took place in the first place, and not just the question of attribution.

MSF is neither an inter-governmental organisation like the UN, nor a group like Amnesty or HRW whose mission is inherently political. They can not afford to be political if they are to carry out their mission.

[Surya]

Johann

I did not - I was merely replying to you using MSF as the "certification agency" for this. I have Canadian friends who are in MSF and I have heard interesting stories. A lot of good people in it - people who have earned a lot of good karma.. but.... the powers to be are vicious and have no compulsions in using anyone

I don't trust any of these orgs - period. whether they are western based, middle east based whatver.

[vishvak]

Why did Germans and NATO back off?

Turkey is playing games too, reinforcing al-mobs and feigning neutrality. Same for Jordan & of course Saudi/Qatar. Along with trainers and weapon-suppliers of al-mobs.

If Turkey Saudi are found out to be involved too in chem weapon proliferation then wouldn't these countries be fair target too, along with the backers of al-mobs?

The USA action seems to be on totally fuzzy logic and partial. From chem weapons of Syria the chatter has shifted to regime/Assad - changing goalposts quickly now.

Al-mobs are now openly 'planning' for post attack scenario. 'Planning' for more loading-ammunition/shooting ie jeehard, looting and pilaging, mass kidnappings and murders, and assuming liberating the way Iraq is liberated with midnight raids of targeted murders, bomb blasts, and so on and so forth. It is tragic how these al-mobs are also not fair targets for any military action.

[wig]

Attackers torch Saudi Arabia's vice and virtue police building

The entrance of a Saudi religious police building has been set on fire, Saudi media reported on Sunday, in a rare attack on a force criticized by the public for its heavy-handed tactics.

Formally known as the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, religious police officers patrol the streets to enforce gender segregation and ensure the public behave in accordance with their strict interpretation of Islamic teachings.

They have power of arrest and have drawn public criticism in the past over car chases that have led to fatal accidents, prompting the committee's head to ban such pursuits.

Committee officials declined to comment by telephone, but the Al Watan newspaper on its website quoted a spokesman confirming the attack which occurred at dawn on Saturday.

"The committee's branch in Thuhrat Al Badeia (west of Riyadh) was intentionally set on fire by assailants," Abdul Rahman Al Sheri, a committee spokesman, said according to Al Watan.

No one was hurt in the incident, he told the paper.

The newspaper did not speculate on who might be behind the attack and what prompted it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 210921.cms

[habal]

I see lot children and women dying and are suffering in the chemical attack videos pictures
No men at all
Is it because women and children garner sympathy and emotions rise the passions?

maybe the Al-Nusra types were told to target an orphanage or 'yateemkhana' for maximum impact. Considering it's mostly children or young adults who have been shown as victims. Also some chemical bottles were stored in the location for maximum impact. The entire area was controlled by rebels and thus they could manipulate anything and everything in territory they hold.

[Gus]

the force is strong in this thread...i will retreat back.

it is still puzzling/amusing to see the reflexive 'assad is great' argument just because great satan is moving/may move against him.

well what goes of my father...

[Johann]

Johann

I did not - I was merely replying to you using MSF as the "certification agency" for this. I have Canadian friends who are in MSF and I have heard interesting stories. A lot of good people in it - people who have earned a lot of good karma.. but.... the powers to be are vicious and have no compulsions in using anyone

I don't trust any of these orgs - period. whether they are western based, middle east based whatver.

I think there may have been mutual miscommunication here.

What am I using the MSF as certification for? Only the fact that nerve agents have been used - I have an open mind about whether the regime or the rebels possessed the actual weapons when they were released in this particular attack.

I don't see any basis to dispute the MSF's basic medical reporting here given its direct access, expertise and track record. In fact their reporting seems like one of the few solid factual sources of information in the swirl of claims and counter-claims between the Syrian and Western governments.

[member_27444]

What happens if you drop mercury on the floor?

It breaks up into small spheres
If you try to chase them with spatula it splits into even more spherical objects , yes because of surface tension adhesive etc weak forces

So is sir Johann never can be found to falter. I love his education


Gus Assad is not great there were greater powers and people who sinned more but were declared good guys

The selective application of guilty , bad guy, time for replacement with no rhyme or reason is what bothers. next time it could be Gus who is great . sort Russian roulette if you will...

[harbans]

US Naval Officers message to Osama..oops Obama

[rgosain]

[/quote]

Why make the claim that Sarin was used when Syria has access to VX and analogues which are a lot more potent and requires less reagent than Sarin.
Sarin was designed to be used in a binary fashion where both components are non-toxic, thus the shells have to be prepared in the field, this, however makes it the CW of choice for terrorists as the components can be transported relatively safely.
The metabolites and break-down products from Sarin are similar to those of some organophosphate pesticides.
Am I getting ahead of myself here to suggest that a potent organo-phosphate, but not Sarin was used to create fingerprints similiar to Sarin

?[/quote]

I had written the above last week prior to the vote in the UK Parliament last week, and the evidence presented by Kerry on Friday and today. In doing so we have entered the curious incident period of the dog not barking.
Why would the Syrians spend three days in a contested environment to prepare Sarin, when VX is available to them?
Do the biomarkers from the blood samples claimed by Kerry match those from the UN teams ?
Are the isotopic ratios obtained from these samples, the same as those collected in the May, and 14 prior alleged uses of SArin.
There is no doubt that Sarin, or a potent organophosphate with a similar biomarker and chemical profile has been used in this recent and previous events and if there is a small probability that the rebels are responsible, then the significance of this is astronomical. Prince Bandar will have to look for a new chemistry set.

[member_27444]

In this cynical world some one would claim that Marine officer protesting could be cut out of Marine from ROTC poster

There is no credibility to anything these days
It's not that on that fateful day the twin towers came down, its the institutions came down there is no more ( even) pretense of integrity, honesty just the extension of Hegemony at any cost. No difference between USSR , Third Reich, and brain washing with embedded columns every where


.............

Ok Kerry has said the word Israel to cajole congress men to vote for resolution indirectly threading the congress of consequences from Israeli lobby.


From The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy”

Now that the cold war is over, Israel has become a strategic liability for the United States,” they write. “Yet no aspiring politician is going to say so in public or even raise the possibility” because the pro-Israel lobby is so powerful. They credit the lobby with shutting down talks with Syria and with moderates in Iran, preventing the United States from condemning Israel’s 2006 war in Lebanon and with not pushing the Israelis hard enough to come to an agreement with the Palestinians. They also discuss Christian Zionists and the issue of dual loyalty.

John J. Mearsheimer, a political scientist at the University of Chicago, and Stephen M. Walt, a professor at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, were not totally surprised by the reaction to their work

[harbans]

Actually if you see in the Arab Spring the, choice is between punishing Islamists and some Brutal dictator. There is not some MK Gandhi, Nelson Mandela promising plurality and democracy against a colonial dictator. This is not a fight for some freedom from totalitarian rule. This is just a shift from miltary totalitariansim to Islamic or theological hooliganism as rule. The people have made a choice between both these groups. The people are not really interested in any 3rd option. The people probably are fooled possibly. Yet no 3rd party can really take a position amongst the 2 as the people themselves will be aligned to either of the 2 devils. There is little one can do in such cases..sad but true.

[member_27444]

Please watch meet the press program of NBC has answered in a very well articulated answer

[harbans]

Amyrao can you give more details. I don;t know what is NBC or it's related programs.

[member_27444]

Amyrao can you give more details. I don;t know what is NBC or it's related programs.

Listen to Rand Paul

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3032608/

[ramana]

Philip,
John McCain has articulated now what was very clear about 60 years ago in the 1956 Suez Crisis that UK is not a world power.
At that time USSR was strong and hence UK was propped up with advanced weaponry to keep them from going under.