Internal Security Watch

[Lilo]

quote="rsangram"]^^^^^^^^^^^

Isnt that a good thing ? Not to be confused ? Say after me 10 times........Muzaffarnagar is not Muzaffarpur.....Muzaffarnagar is not Muzaffarpur......

I bet you, you dont confuse between Dubai and Abu Dhabi or Iraq and Afghanistan........well, maybe Iraq and Afghanistan. quote]

Hain?? Is it relevant to pontificate on a typo OR genuine mistake? why this sarcasm when this serious discussion is going on..

It is a serious problem. When supposedly educated people dont know the geography of their own country, but are well versed with the geography of foreign countries. This "Macaulyte" thinking "seriously" contributes to our dhimmification.

I am not saying that we should not be world geography aware, of course, we should. But we should be first and foremost aware of our own geography. Both Muzaffarpur and Muzaffarnagar are not trivial places or insignificant villages in some backwater area and any aware Hindu should know the difference.

Joo seem to be properly unhinged .

[arminius]

Locals say RoPers were prepared and planned it very well. Panchayat participants were unarmed whereas secularpart of population was well stocked. As of ow army is deployed in Muzaffarnagar but now they are being asked to go to villages. There has been some exodus of RoPers from rural areas but local village politics (vote in panchayati elections) is playing spoilsport. In adjoining district of Shamli, RoPers went on rampage, looted shops etc. Local SP, who happens to be RoPer,"surprisingly" looked other way. Some "communal" young men physically assaulted a very very "secular" maulvi in a small village. As the report reached Awadh, chief secretary Javed Usmani called up Maulvi Saheb and instructed local police to catch the culprits whilw RoPers partied in Muzaffarnagar city.
I might get banned for this, but people in these areas are starting to take notice of Gujarat model now.

[member_23692]

There is import lobby. So what would sheiks say about the secular riots - especially more secular part if sheiks are also more secular. What would then happen to CAD?

Sky will fall only if we become self sufficient in oil and natural gas by opening up our own oil fields only.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1500558
oil and jihardi on one side and tech and HnD on the other side is to be managed to 'international' meaning secular only (not afrikan or others in international) standards.

There isnt enough oil under Indian land and water to be self sufficient.

I would

1) Switch as much as possible to Natural Gas - electric plants, cars, buses, trains, industries, you name it. Until we are able to extract our own natural gas to be self sufficient, we can buy natural gas from other places than the Middle East, such as the US, even if we have to pay a little higher

2) I would also create an extensive solar grid, as a backup, even if it costs us double per KV in electricity. And let our population pay higher for that solar powered electricity, so we are not dependent. We can pledge to eat grass.

3) Strike deals with Russia and other places like Venezuela, Mexico etc to buy oil as a third level backup, even if we have to pay more

4) Use wind, ocean waves etc to the extent possible

[Chandragupta]

Just spoke to my folk in that area. They say unofficial toll could be ~400 as the bodies are in gang nahar still and have not been pulled out yet. These were the jat farmers coming back from the panchayat when they were ambushed. The administration has been strictly told to make sure the ROP is not at the receiving end at any cost of Hindus. Whenever there have been roits, they have been restricted to the towns and even they have not seen much. If they have happened in villages, its likely to simmer for a long time. These are small villages and everyone knows everyone else and to which community a certain person belongs. If someone is involved in these roits, that person is painted. Whether the administration takes any action or not against him is different matter.

Death toll is much higher in Muzaffarnagar. Jats returning from Panchayat were ambushed. Shots were fired from mosques. Around 250 panchayat participants are still missing. Police didn't take any action. It seems riots have now spread to rural areas, which didn't happen even in '47. This morning retaliation started, instantly army was called and media started covering it. Till that point it was a "secular" riot.

My close relatives are in Shamli and Muzaffarnagar, ground zero and they are saying the same thing. They say there is a lot of anger in the local Hindu populace and retaliation would have been massive if the Army had not been called in. The administration has already arrested or put under house arrests everyone or anyone who can mobilise 10 Hindus, even at a village level, an exercise exclusive to Hindus while the same administration is at the feet of RoP begging them not to resort to violence. Hopefully, Hindus of Uttar Pradesh would have learnt from this episode and would not vote in Namajwadi Party again, if they do, then I doubt they deserve any bandwidth on BR.

[member_24580]

The shopkeeper's association has been on strike for 5 days now to get this SP removed. Shops have downed shutters for 5th day today. The Govt has shown no desire to remove him. Somehow the alacrity during Durga Shakti episode comes to mind.

In adjoining district of Shamli, RoPers went on rampage, looted shops etc. Local SP, who happens to be RoPer,"surprisingly" looked other way.

Cant comment on this. RLD is the strong party in these areas. We ll know how it ll play out.

I might get banned for this, but people in these areas are starting to take notice of Gujarat model now.

[arminius]

My close relatives are in Shamli and Muzaffarnagar, ground zero and they are saying the same thing. They say there is a lot of anger in the local Hindu populace and retaliation would have been massive if the Army had not been called in. The administration has already arrested or put under house arrests everyone or anyone who can mobilise 10 Hindus, even at a village level, an exercise exclusive to Hindus while the same administration is at the feet of RoP begging them not to resort to violence. Hopefully, Hindus of Uttar Pradesh would have learnt from this episode and would not vote in Namajwadi Party again, if they do, then I doubt they deserve any bandwidth on BR.

How long are they going to deploy army: a month, six months ? The original spark was harrasment of school going girls. Ghazis were doing what they do best, police wouldn't care as this par for the course in a secular state. On top of that RoPers showed tactical brilliance a la border action team. So resentment is there and lets see how long it simmers. Moreover where do the recruits of battalions deployed there come from? It is for no reason seculars say UP PAC is communal.

[member_23692]

Cant comment on this. RLD is the strong party in these areas.

This is one of the factors which had been an enabling factor in this current persecution of Jats in Naval area.

The Jats voting for a mercenary like Ajit Singh. An act of voting for a useless and toothless party like RLD contributes to nothing but fragmantation of Hindus. I can almost bet you(and I hope to God, I am wrong), that the Congress/BSP/SP/Muslim League combine and all the rest of the traitors will prevail upon Choudhary Ajit Singh to go and calm down his base and lead them away from retaliating against the Islamic sub-humans, thereby in essence, continuing the 1000 year old trend of handing victories to the sub-humans and dhimmification of us Hindus.

[member_24580]

Something I said to my folk half an hour ago. If they still dont vote to a single party, they are politically dispensable and deserve the Darwin's award. Not voting for Namajwadi wont help. There are lot of parties that split hindu votes - RLD, BSP, Congress, SP, BJP while Muslims vote en-mass. If hindus do not get their act together and vote for one party, they ll get the same fate time and again.

Hopefully, Hindus of Uttar Pradesh would have learnt from this episode and would not vote in Namajwadi Party again, if they do, then I doubt they deserve any bandwidth on BR.

[anchal]

A summary of the Muzaffarnagar riots thus far

A member of the particular community (say G) used to harass a Jat Hindu girl. M even teased her in front of her brother. The guy called one of his cousins and stabbed the offender in his own village (G dominated). All local Ms caught the two brothers and murdered them brutally all the while chanting pious slogans. Private parts of the boys were cut and their heads were crushed from atta chakki wheels

All this while SSP and DM of the district were transferred on the instructions of an Islamist leader of the UP who is de facto CM and replaced with pliant officers. SP of Shamli district is a pious fellow so has been particularly favorable to certain segment

Now all segments of the Hindu society are together and riots have spread to villages hence the secular urgency to rope in the Army. There have been report of Army catching huge ammunition stocked in certain places of worship and peaceful followers even firing at Army jawans

Long-term migration of the peaceful community is a certain possibility since rural folks are not a forgiving lot. Besides if UP is the heartland of India that reason is heartland of UP. So the majority community cannot afford to 'lose it'
All this has been culled from local media and one or two person's accounts on Twitter who are currently in that part of the state. So TFIWF

[satya]

There will be no retribution from Jats :

1) Jats are not organized.Its a mirage . Only community in hindus that is organized is one in cities for they have been on frontline for a long time . Jats had it easy in rural areas for a long time . So it's a wake up call but will they wake up , i doubt it . Anger will go away in months , won't simmer for years . Hard but a fact .

2) They don't have excess to firearms ( by firearms i mean illegal ones , few have , its tiny when compared to RoP) in comparison to RoP.

3) It was planned , very well planned . SP gains no doubt massively . Jats were losers always , had they not been so they would have long time ago dumped Ajit Singh ( a black spot on his father's legacy & on Jat community) nor are there any BJP leaders left to lead them . Its a vaccum .

Likely consequence :

Exodus of Jats . Mark my words . Those who can are already doing so to cities . It will get interesting when they settle in cities as it will bring in some form of organization . Now its simple case of new border being formed . RoPs continue their march to Delhi sultanat . East of delhi is a gone case for those whose eyes are not shut .
Long terms solution is simple : deny RoP community access to any access to even lowest possible level of economically gainful activity in cities. Deny them in INC way .

[arminius]

Something I said to my folk half an hour ago. If they still dont vote to a single party, they are politically dispensable and deserve the Darwin's award. Not voting for Namajwadi wont help. There are lot of parties that split hindu votes - RLD, BSP, Congress, SP, BJP while Muslims vote en-mass. If hindus do not get their act together and vote for one party, they ll get the same fate time and again.

Hopefully, Hindus of Uttar Pradesh would have learnt from this episode and would not vote in Namajwadi Party again, if they do, then I doubt they deserve any bandwidth on BR.

If Amit Shah is as good as they say he is, then it should be game, set, match for the communal party. However, secularitis is a rather aggressive ailment, some in UP unit of the communa party suffer from it as well. If I maynfurther digress, Muzaffarnagar MP is Shri Kadir Rana was,among the 65 illustrious parliamentarians, who petitioned Nobel peace prize laureate. It seems he was leading RoPers yesterday in gently reminding very communal people the virtues of secularism.

[member_23692]

"Narendra Modi hatched the conspiracy to provoke the Muzzafarnagar riots. The young men who were hacked and stoned to death were Narendra Modi stooges", said Congress General Secretary and Sonia/Rahul Gandhi confidante, Digvijay Singh today, while visiting the house of the slain muslim youth whose sexual harassment of the two Hindu girls started the riot.

Dog Singh did not say that today, you say.

Rest assured, if he didnt say it today, he will say it tomorrow. And if he did not visit the "aggrieved" Islamic communities of Muzzafarnagar area today, he will visit there tomorrow.

And the entire news media will do the bidding of the ruling establishment and concoct wild stories about "Hindu terrorist hand" in this riot.

[arminius]

3) It was planned , very well planned . SP gains no doubt massively . Jats were losers always , had they not been so they would have long time ago dumped Ajit Singh ( a black spot on his father's legacy & on Jat community) nor are there any BJP leaders left to lead them . Its a vaccum .

It was planned and coordinated very well. Attacks happened in multiple villages. There are reports of a SUV full of automatic weapons being confiscated.
Ajit Singh is a spent force, RLD lost Baghpat seat in last state elections. He will have hard time in Baghpat parlimentary seat. He used to bank upon jat-muslim combination to ride through.

Likely consequence :

Exodus of Jats . Mark my words . Those who can are already doing so to cities . It will get interesting when they settle in cities as it will bring in some form of organization . Now its simple case of new border being formed . RoPs continue their march to Delhi sultanat . East of delhi is a gone case for those whose eyes are not shut .
Long terms solution is simple : deny RoP community access to any access to even lowest possible level of economically gainful activity in cities. Deny them in INC way .

If you drive from Delhi to Saharanpur, RoP are stationed strategically along the highway. They can block it at will. The number of places of worship has risen admiringly in last two decades.
It is hard to deny them access to gainful economic activity, as it is there is an army of Sachars and Katjus fighting for them.

[nawabs]

http://www.firstpost.com/india/muzaffar ... 93609.html

With the death toll from communal clashes rising to 26, arrest warrants have been issued for a number of local BJP leaders who conducted a panchayat meeting following which there were communal riots, CNN-IBN reported. The names of the BJP leaders are as follows: Hukum Singh, Sangeet Som, Suresh Rana, Bhartendu Singh

Of these Hukum Singh is MLA from Kairana in Shamli. He is leader of the BJP in the vidhan sabha and has served as power minister in bjp led state governments. The District Magistrate of Muzaffarnagar, speaking to CNN-IBN, said that schools and colleges have been shut for 3 days. He added that a total of 13 people died in violence while another 8 people had died today in sporadic violence. He said that there were around 6-7 “most critical villages” in western Muzzaffarnagar and that a total of 35 people have been arrested so far. “We have registered an FIR against all those who organised the mahapanchayat and those who attended it. Violence happened because of this Mahapanchayat.

[darshhan]

Along with Maculayized education fit only to produce dhimmis, Hindus have taken another huge mistake by adopting "Family Planning" and that too unilaterally. Muslims were never any party to Family Planning. It always put us at a disadvantage when it came to electoral politics. But the disadvantage is not limited to electoral performance alone. I mean who is going to fight street battles/skirmishes/wars/insurgency for Hindus if they choose not to have extra sons. The problem is that the pool of warfighting Hindus is continuously shrinking.

But muslims were never short of these extra sons and now it is playing to their advantage. They can always sacrifice one or two of these for the glory of Jihad.

P.S. This post of mine might seem misogynistic and even regressive, but it is what it is. Political Correctness will not ensure the survival of Hinduism in India anymore.

[kittoo]

Along with Maculayized education fit only to produce dhimmis, Hindus have taken another huge mistake by adopting "Family Planning" and that too unilaterally. Muslims were never any party to Family Planning. It always put us at a disadvantage when it came to electoral politics. But the disadvantage is not limited to electoral performance alone. I mean who is going to fight street battles/skirmishes/wars/insurgency for Hindus if they choose not to have extra sons. The problem is that the pool of warfighting Hindus is continuously shrinking.

But muslims were never short of these extra sons and now it is playing to their advantage. They can always sacrifice one or two of these for the glory of Jihad.

P.S. This post of mine might seem misogynistic and even regressive, but it is what it is. Political Correctness will not ensure the survival of Hinduism in India anymore.

I agree with this completely. Martial trait of Hindus has completely vanished.

[darshhan]

I propose that we open a new thread in which we discuss how to remilitarize and revitalise the Hindus. Plus how to deal with jihadi tactics in 21st century both foreign and domestic.

[Lilo]

Along with Maculayized education fit only to produce dhimmis, Hindus have taken another huge mistake by adopting "Family Planning" and that too unilaterally. Muslims were never any party to Family Planning. It always put us at a disadvantage when it came to electoral politics. But the disadvantage is not limited to electoral performance alone. I mean who is going to fight street battles/skirmishes/wars/insurgency for Hindus if they choose not to have extra sons. The problem is that the pool of warfighting Hindus is continuously shrinking.

But muslims were never short of these extra sons and now it is playing to their advantage. They can always sacrifice one or two of these for the glory of Jihad.

P.S. This post of mine might seem misogynistic and even regressive, but it is what it is. Political Correctness will not ensure the survival of Hinduism in India anymore.

I agree with this completely. Martial trait of Hindus has completely vanished.

Kittoo ji,
Please consider our armed forces which are full of Hindus (their families their clans) before making such a blanket statement. Also one has to look in the correct strata of society to find the martial nature. One can't take the modern day pan nationalist (aka globalist - in the mold of Gurudev Tagore ) yuppie types to be a sample to come to such conclusions .

Further In this regard Suraj jis words in NM dhagha are to be remembered.
"First rule taught to race drivers is to concentrate on the various paths to pull ahead not the paths which will lead to a crash." - so let us not push ourselves into a self fulfilling corner.

[darshhan]

Kittoo ji,
Please consider our armed forces which are full of Hindus (their families their clans) before making such a blanket statement. Also one has to look in the correct strata of society to find the martial nature. One can't take the modern day pan nationalist (aka globalist - in the mold of Gurudev Tagore ) yuppie types to be a sample to come to such conclusions . In this regard Suraj jis words in NM dhagha are to be remembered.
"First rule taught to race drivers is to concentrate on the various paths to pull ahead not the paths which will lead to a crash." - so let us not push ourselves into a self fulfilling corner.

Lilo ji, Hindu Population is about 1 Billion. Army is about 1 million. That is .001% of the total hindu population. If you include the reserves too, that would make it about .002 -.003% Max. There is nothing to be proud of this lowly percentage. If anything it is a matter of immense shame that 99.997% Hindus are helpless and hopeless cowards who lack the courage, capacity, Character and competence to fight their own battles. Army is any way overloaded.

Plus Army as an institution is nothing but an extension of state. They have to do and will do as state wishes them to. The problem is that State itself has become the enemy of Hindus.

Edited later: I was wrong to have taken into account 1 billion Hindus. Actually it is only the number of adult Hindu Male population. Even then the ratio of hindu miltarization is extremely low.

[member_23692]

Kittoo ji,
Please consider our armed forces which are full of Hindus (their families their clans) before making such a blanket statement. Also one has to look in the correct strata of society to find the martial nature. One can't take the modern day pan nationalist (aka globalist - in the mold of Gurudev Tagore ) yuppie types to be a sample to come to such conclusions . In this regard Suraj jis words in NM dhagha are to be remembered.
"First rule taught to race drivers is to concentrate on the various paths to pull ahead not the paths which will lead to a crash." - so let us not push ourselves into a self fulfilling corner.

Lilo ji, Hindu Population is about 1 Billion. Army is about 1 million. That is .001% of the total hindu population. If you include the reserves too, that would make it about .002 -.003% Max. There is nothing to be proud of this lowly percentage. If anything it is a matter of immense shame that 99.997% Hindus are helpless and hopeless cowards who lack the courage, capacity, Character and competence to fight their own battles. Army is any way overloaded.

Plus Army as an institution is nothing but an extension of state. They have to do and will do as state wishes them to. The problem is that State itself has become the enemy of Hindus.

Edited later: I was wrong to have taken into account 1 billion Hindus. Actually it is only the number of adult Hindu Male population. Even then the ratio of hindu miltarization is extremely low.

Darshan,

All the statistics you quote only make your argument correct. And of course, logically you are right.

In our parallel universe existence which defines that Indian state of today, as per the Indian state-ist thinking and logic, though, it is Lilo Jijo who is right. Is not Muzzaffarnagar a glorious example of Hindu Martial spirit ? Did not our glorious army go there and kill Hindus ?

[Lilo]

Darshan ji,
The total armed forces +reserve+central forces+state police+ reserves in all is a very fuzzy number no one knows .

But some questions..
Why is it that some sickulars really wanted to know the religious headcount of Indian Army ?
I mean they REALLY wanted to know didn't they ?
What is the percentage of Muslims in the rank and file of police including officer cadre ?
Why is that the rabid kutta owaisi was shit scared of Andhra police even when he was seemingly frothing at the mouth against a Billion Hindus ?
How yindutvawadi can an ex leftist be when he snaps ?

Police anywhere in India keep the accounts for all the activities Malsic followers perform in peace time. All the accounts are inevitably settled during the "confusion" of riots. Only political heads like owaisi are spared under compulsion. Why do you think sikular media is so suspicious about police and intelligence agencies when it comes to malsics. Its because they really have a reason to be -as Islamist mujahids especially without a political emir(who himself is often a coerced informer) tend to disappear during riots without a trial.

That said you are right on the overall need for aam Hindus to become more martial , but with the confidence of such systematized power behind them for use during emergencies aam Hindus have to first achive the difficult job of uniting themselves in the peacetime available to us. it's their duty to bring in enabling leaders who don't handicap the services in their duties.

Martial training can be given in 30 mins if required ( child soilders of Congo took less time to know to use an AK).What we need are capable uniting leaders to head our parties - we have many waiting in ranks when dilli d4 expires. Not the caste based leaders which is fashionable today.

In the mean time do your duties to the family,clan,village, society ,nation and organize your dharmic berthen behind a common political force - after all one has to remember Dharmic's are those who didn't bendover like the Paki's within and without.

Our ideology and the determination it engenders is a completely different Beast (many examples from samkara,shivaji,ranjithsingh ji,vivekanda) and cant be compared to the "martialness" of a dumb ass fcked jehadi who doesn't want to live his wretched life anymore and wants to go soosai against the nearest windmill.

[harbans]

BTW Muslims in Western UP outnumber Jats if i am not mistaken.

[arminius]

BTW Muslims in Western UP outnumber Jats if i am not mistaken.

As a matter of fact, muslims are about 35% in western UP. Muzzafarnagar district has about 40% muslims.
Jat form only 4 to 5% of population. Though muslims are settled in urban areas and rural western is dominated by jats and other agrarian communities.

[darshhan]

BTW Muslims in Western UP outnumber Jats if i am not mistaken.

True, that is why Hindus will have to put up some sort of unity in order to counter the hadjis. Right now in Western UP every Hindu group cares about only its interests (Jats, Gujjars, Brahmins, Tyagis etc). Jats on their own can only do so much against the islamists.

If you look at the last couple of elections both Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha, Muslim candidates have made steady inroads in western UP. There is a whole stretch in Upper Doab and Ruhelkhand where Muslim candidates have won, just because Hindus were unable to vote in a united fashion. The MP of Muzaffarnagar is himself a Muslim (Kadir Rana). Just adjoining Delhi, in Loni and Muradnagar previously invincible candidates like Madan Bhaiya and Rajpal Tyagi lost to Muslim candidates. There is a reason why islamists are suddenly on warpath.

In western UP(Harit Pradesh area) muslims are anywhere from 25-35% of the population. Hindus of this region smply do not have luxury of indulging in caste politics and caste bravado. Voting for useless parties like RLD is like committing suicide.

[darshhan]

BTW Muslims in Western UP outnumber Jats if i am not mistaken.

As a matter of fact, muslims are about 35% in western UP. Muzzafarnagar district has about 40% muslims.
Jat form only 4 to 5% of population.

Complete upper doab including Muzaffarnagar, Saharanpur, Bijnore and meerut have more than 30% muslim population. Ruhelkhand also has has similar percentage with Rampur touching almost 50%. Moradabad, Bareilly,sambhal, amroha are some of the other districts where Muslim population is quite high.

[arminius]

BTW Muslims in Western UP outnumber Jats if i am not mistaken.

True, that is why Hindus will have to put up some sort of unity in order to counter the hadjis. Right now in Western UP every Hindu group cares about only its interests (Jats, Gujjars, Brahmins, Tyagis etc). Jats on their own can only do so much against the islamists.

If you look at the last couple of elections both Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha, Muslim candidates have made steady inroads in western UP. There is a whole stretch in Upper Doab and Ruhelkhand where Muslim candidates have won, just because Hindus were unable to vote in a united fashion. The MP of Muzaffarnagar is himself a Muslim (Kadir Rana). Just adjoining Delhi, in Loni and Muradnagar previously invincible candidates like Madan Bhaiya and Rajpal Tyagi lost to Muslim candidates. There is a reason why islamists are suddenly on warpath.

In western UP(Harit Pradesh area) muslims are anywhere from 25-35% of the population. Hindus of this region smply do not have luxury of indulging in caste politics and caste bravado. Voting for useless parties like RLD is like committing suicide.

Do you think Azam Khan and Javed Usmani have something to do with show of strength?

[Prem]

I wish Chacha was alive !
Should not Hindus use some of the Gold in Temples and raise proactive , prempting protection force of 1/2 percent of their population?

[Advait]

* Deleted *.

[RamaY]

Long terms solution is simple : deny RoP community access to any access to even lowest possible level of economically gainful activity in cities. Deny them in INC way .

This is where we got with the infamous "INC way". I am sure this is exactly what congress is praying for.

[SwamyG]

So why are the BJP leaders being blamed and arrested?

[kittoo]

So why are the BJP leaders being blamed and arrested?

They are communal all the time, so they can be arrested anytime. Their mere existence on the earth is the cause of riots.

[Advait]

also expect the media to make this a non-Hindu issue by trying to divide us on caste and regional lines. Psec media will call this Jat-Muslim riots or UPwallas-Muslim riots. Just as they called the Hindu-Muslim riots in Assam as Bodo-Muslim riots.

Also, lets start discussing real practical solutions which can be started ASAP.

[darshhan]

Do you think Azam Khan and Javed Usmani have something to do with show of strength?

Azam Khan definitely. He is the defacto commander in chief of the hadjis of UP. Don't know much about Javed Usmani.

[harbans]

Yes Jats are just some 4% in Western UP. Even in Delhi they are just 3%. They have land holdings and a large percent are well off. Large numbers i know have left and work elsewhere. Western UP Jats have been quite progressive and many have made a mark in the Armed forces and Academics. A Jat friend of mine was the IIT PGM. With that sort of spread it is unlikely Jats left in villages have much firepower. The community has to look beyond their traditional frameworks. I think Rampur and some other districts have 80% plus muslims..not 50%. All the UP districts below Uttaranchal have Muslim populations above 50%..

[arminius]

RoPers of that region now believe that they can take on Indian army.
http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Muzaffa ... 423375.cms

[brihaspati]

There is not much you can do on the hyperactive or hyperreactive mode in UP. The factors I find mentioned in the previous posts are not taking into account the linked counter factors. Here they go:

(1) do not bring in talk of the army. The army has had a nurturing that is tightly related to "regime" loyalty - more towards the top. Why do people expect the army to be some miraculously separate existence completely free form the weaknesses seen in society at large? Why do you expect the civilian politicians to be scamming like there's no tomorrow, and no shadow or wind or whiff of that to try and get at least some from the infrastructure around the army in to the same game? Why do you think that when almost every top politician is likely to have been selected or allowed to grow - onlee because they could be entrapped or provoked or enticed into committing or witnessing acts that could be used against them if they deviated from the group interests - that similar stuff has not been attempted on the army upper levels?

The state is likely to have learnt to distrust the army from the Brits. The army in turn would have some degree of continuity with the colonial perception that the army should not identify with the "people" but be somewhat "detached" and its primary loyalty should lie with the state==regime rather than people of the nation.

Its the necessity of colonial and continuity-with-colonial regimes to keep the army detached from the commons. So just as in the days around independence, you will have stories in the future about how soldier's hearts wept at the sight/knowledge of jihadi action on their non-muslim brethren - but you see, they could not break their oath, they could not take action on their own, they had to carry out the orders from the top to protect or leave out the root cause itself.

(2) Arming the population is not a solution. Nowadays the population will have to fight sophisticated state backed heavily-industrialized weapons manufacturing systems which national level govs can afford. Don;t swallow everything that is told about the apparent power of jihadis or maoists or other militia to get weapons at will : they can get so onlee because they are allowed to get so by different nations and their respective defense and intel circles.

Every such arming operation will be infiltrated by national and extra-national secret services, and will be used ultimately for their respective agendas. Do not model the Indian jihadis or Maoists to be completely free of state or foreign nation penetration.

So when you talk of "arming", be careful. You will need support from outside or sections of the state itself. There is a price to be paid to get that support - often, that price is the sacrifice of your core goals.

(3) UP actually sits as a zone of flow of girls and women and boys for the sex trade, narcotics, and weapons from Nepal and lower GV all the way through to BD and Myanmar and SW China/Yunnan. To the west lies Punjab and to the north-west Haryana and Himachal, and further afield Jammu. Delhi therefore serves as a pivot from which its easy to sit atop this flow and get "cuts". Therefore you will find a systematic concentration of Islamist infrastructure that has grown up on the eastern hinterland of Delhi and in this west-UP zone.

The territorial strategy needs to be understood. Without a complete surrounding and elimination of the Islamist infrastructure you cannot prevent their growth. Without definite state power in your hands you will not be able to mobilize the international neutrality and the military wherewithal to effect this elimination. Therefore, its better to allow the territorial consolidation - since in the end, that consolidation will swallow its non-Muslim patrons who are based in the territory and who primarily have a strong representation in the regime.

(4) There is no shame in learning tactics from enemies. For certain stages of such struggles - a fluid area concept works well. You retreat into configurations you can hold better, but plan and execute steps to come back and recover.

(5) Wait for jihadis or Maoists to unleash more chaos and loosen the grip of authority in portions of the land. While it may seem stupid and self-defeating, the very process by which Islamists or Maoists make the "state" thin also provides you with an opportunity to grow into that very space - in ways that the normal state would not allow you - especially if you were "Hindu" in contrast to the way they allow Maoist or Islamics to grow.

(6) The more the Islamists dance or Maoists jump, they actually weaken their own patrons who work in and out of the state in various ways. They are also providing space. The configuration of forces from the Terai to Delhi looks grim - but is also the expansion zone. If thought out carefully.

[Karan M]

There really is very little to separate India from TSP. In both places, Hindus are killed, violated, and assaulted by peaceful people. Ack Thoo at secularism and the great indian govt.

[Atri]

The enemy. Foremost enemy.

Thank you.

That is the answer. One word, "Enemy".

I rest my case.

What percentage of Hindus, do you think, have this awareness ? I think you can count them on your fingers. You, me, maybe Atri and maybe 374 others around the country. No more than 400, to be sure.

This is too simplistic a reasoning. You are missing one key factor which is endemic to Hinduism and Hindutva which I won't utter here on open forum. But rest assured, we are in for a surprise and a bumpy ride. The state is not enemy of Hindus. The state is amnesiac Hanumana, being controlled by curse of Brahma that is nehruvianism, who needs to be reminded of his own might. Enemy is still Islamism, EJism and Communism in alliance of Nehruvianism. Nehruvianism is not India. India will be India post three-headed demon that is Nehruvianism. Do not miss the symptom for the actual cause. India has to be gotten rid of Nehruvianism asap.

[sunnyP]

Unbelievable how the media are spinning this - all the blame is going to the farmers who attended the maya-panchayat and none at all on the cowards who attacked them whilst they were returning home.

Goebbels would be proud of the Indian media wallahs.

[Prem]

Shivanshu Bhardwaj ‏@shivanshug9 3h #Muzaffarnagar mai Near Meenakshi chowk ke pass Army ke Upar Masjid se Fireing ki jaa rahi hai @varsharitu_

On second Note , hope hamare Pujya ParDhan Mantri Ki Sleep Mey Khalal Na Daale.