Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Sep 2013 21:09

The contrary to that opinion is the stated fact that the dog's barking had disturbed Ekalavya's prayers or veneration of his guru.
And dont forget MB starts and ends with dogs :Janemejaya's brothers drive away a small pup and its moterh comes and sweras/curses/shaap that the Sarap Yajna will be stopped midway.And everyone knows aout the Yama assuming the form of a dog and following the Pandavas for 24 years.
And dogs were and considered unclean during puja pat.
So Drona taking the side of the dog is remote possiblity.
So a lot of mixed symbolism there.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2013 21:52

^ Ramanaji..

Will write the story of Ekalavya from Vyasa Bharatam (Verbatim translation by Sri Kappagantula Lakshmana Sastry).

I am reading Adi Parva again. Here is the original description of Satyavati-Parasara encounter, as told by Satyavati to her son Bhishma

Bhishma, one day I was running the boat across the river Yamuna. I reached puberty by then. On that day Rishi Parasara came there to cross the river. As we are crossing the river the Rishi got overwhelmed by Kama, approached me with sweet talk and told me about his life and lineage. Then I told him that "Dear Sir! I am daughter of Nishada king" {Nala, one of the Shat-Chakravatis was also a Nishada king}. I was afraid of my father on one side and scared of any curse the Rishi would give. Then that Rishi convinced me by giving me an, otherwise impossible, boon.

Bhishma! That rishi, thus convincing me by his Tapas/power/boon, conquered me on that very boat, even I was not interested in it. Then the Rishi made the whole world dark using his penance {Indication of a solar eclipse?}. Before that incident I used to smell a very bad fish odor. He removed that and had given me the current pleasant body smell {In yoga, it is said that the body will start emitting a pleasant smell when the Kundalini awakens. Did Parasara give "Shaktipata" to Satyavati?}. Then the Rishi told me that "You would leave the baby on this Yamuna island, and remain as a virgin" Did Parasara asked Satyavati to abandon the child, we will see the answer immediately below, and continue to be considered a virgin? If so Satyavati must have stayed on the island, away from her father for at least few months to a year. Plausible scenario, given those days where everyone is considered an equal and independent?

Devavrata! Thus Rishi Vyasa was born from me to Parasara. He was called Dwaipayana (One who is born in Dweepa/Island). He separated Vedas and got Vyasa (one who separates sciences/fields of study) designation. He was called "KRshna" for he was dark skinned Does it make Parasara a dark skinned, for Satyavati was said to be fair skinned somewhere else, we will see. This Vyasa was taken along with his father as soon as he was born.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 19 Sep 2013 21:56

The contrary to that opinion is the stated fact that the dog's barking had disturbed Ekalavya's prayers or veneration of his guru.

ramana garu, interesting...thanks for pointing it out, didn't think of that.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2013 22:04

venug wrote:
The contrary to that opinion is the stated fact that the dog's barking had disturbed Ekalavya's prayers or veneration of his guru.
ramana garu, interesting...thanks for pointing it out, didn't think of that.

Ramanaji, The version I am reading doesn't say that.

The story goes that when Kauravas & Pandavas go for hunting, one of their hunting dogs see the deer skin wearing dirty/scary Ekalavya and barks at him.

It doesn't say he was doing any prayers. But one can argue that a focused learning/practice is same as prayers to Saraswati/Guru.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 19 Sep 2013 22:29

ramana garu,
But one question I have is, is the cruelty towards the barking dog justified? let's assume that directly or indirectly the dig did disturb Ekalavya's veneration to Dhronacharya, in the beginning of MB, Janemejaya's brothers get cursed for cruelly chasing a small pup, just because the pup disturbed the yagna preparations. Even in Ekalavya's case even if his prayers to his guru got disturbed, is it right on his part to shoot arrows and hurt the dog?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 20 Sep 2013 02:46

I have always had a nagging suspicion that MB's numeric emphasis is an encoding of astronomical event data. So the story goes at two or more levels. Outwardly it is a retelling perhaps of already well known "history". But the numerical details might be talking of something else : even the stories themselves might have been slightly slanted or adopted in order to maintain the encoding.

If Yama - who later appears as a dog - did follow the Pandavas for explicit number of years, it could be talking of Sirius in relation to some five-prominent starred constellation. I have found elsewhere in Bharatyia texts that the "dog" might actually refer to Sirius, even though the common classical Bharatyia jyotish does not indicate the canine meme in its term for Sirius.

The Draupadi story might similarly have been told in that way - to encode a special relationship of a star - relatively stationary - around which another constellation of five prominent stars moved, apparently in the night sky.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Sep 2013 03:10

Agnimitra wrote: अष्टौ श्लोकसहस्राणि अष्टौ श्लोकशतानि च
अहं वेद्मि शुको वेत्ति सञ्जयो वेत्ति वा न वा

"Eight thousand and eight hundred verses there are,
That I know and Shuka knows but Sanjaya (the author) may or may not know."
-Mahabharata, Adi Parva 1.81

Around this verse is built the theory of the "Hidden Bharata", one that isn't available in the popular epic's text. Now if I were an Idiot, or a clever Nazi or colonial Western Indologist, or a traditionalist upper caste Hindu clansman, I might go digging for the relics of this 8800 verse Holy Grail in Tibet or Turkey, or deep in the family archives of a particular caste-collective. Nothing wrong with that, of course - after all, "What one has not yet learned to use, one must first learn to waste", be it time, money, energy or intelligence. But this Hidden Bharata seems to have been pursued more as an idea by those Hindu spiritual leaders who worked with the fundamentals.

This sloka was said about the 8800 complex slokas (Grandhi Grandhi) that Vyasa told so Ganesha needs to more time before writing them, as part of their agreement.

Vyasa says only he and Suka would understand this. We need to find what these 8800 slokas out of 20000-100000 available now and then decipher them.

Another interesting thing is that the same Suka, son of Vyasa, goes to Janaka (people assume it is the same Janaka father of Sitadevi of Ramayana) on his fathers advise to get convinced about the Vedic way of Grihastha Ashrama.

That brings another point. Much before Buddha, even Suka thought there is no need for Gruhastha Ashrama (which is the foundation for Varna Vyavastha as we discussed on that topic; for there is no varna Vyavastha in Brahmacharya, vanaprastha and samnyasa ashramas), but got convinced by non other than a philosopher king, Janaka/Vi-deha.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 20 Sep 2013 12:12

In respect of Ekalavya, knowledge of dhanur Veda can not be widely speard as it can be used by adharma by evil people. So the teachings were restricted to people with dharmic background. Remember bhargava rama teached Devavratha. He has cursed Karna as he is Khathriya and not a Brahmin.

Nilesh Oak · Post by **Nilesh Oak** » 20 Sep 2013 19:52

RamaY wrote:
अष्टौ श्लोकसहस्राणि अष्टौ श्लोकशतानि च
अहं वेद्मि शुको वेत्ति सञ्जयो वेत्ति वा न वा

"Eight thousand and eight hundred verses there are,
That I know and Shuka knows but Sanjaya (the author) may or may not know."
-Mahabharata, Adi Parva 1.81
This sloka was said about the 8800 complex slokas (Grandhi Grandhi) that Vyasa told so Ganesha needs to more time before writing them, as part of their agreement.

RamaY Garu,

Many MBH researchers have attempted such a thing with, not surprisingly, no concrete outcome. They have interpreted this number in various ways. Of course Million $ question is complex to who? To wit, AV observation was considered complex/irrational/impossible until it was deciphered.... then it was a cakewalk. A 6 year old child could understand it (My daughter then 6 year could understand it). That is not a guarantee that everyone would. As I have noticed on OIT or astronomy thread, that many stalwarts are struggling for months to understand implication of AV observation.

Cumulative references to positions and phases of the moon during 18 days of MBH war...easily lead to understanding the War began on Amavasya..but still we have many attempts which assume war began on Margashirsha Shudda 11, etc. Never mind, those who postulate such beginning don't bother to provide any evidence in its support.
-----------------
If one insists on existence of 8800 complex shlokas, then case can be made for 215 astronomy and chronology references (actual number of shlokas would be many more than 215, but still much lower than 8800) to be part of this complex shlokas.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Sep 2013 20:01

Lokesh ji,

No disagreement there. You are right, the question is complex to who?

Here they are said to slow down Ganesha. Now Vyasa was writing MB (AFAIK) with three different goals.
1/ Tell the story of Bharatas
2/ Tell the story of Dharma and Adharma
3/ Pave the path to Moksha

So why would Ganesha need time to understand the sloka? Perhaps to make him understand what is really happening in the story (how the sloka fits into the story) or how it is dharma/adharma for given situation or how the hell this is the path of Moksha?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 20 Sep 2013 22:36

Remember bhargava rama teached Devavratha. He has cursed Karna as he is Khathriya and not a Brahmin.

Narayana Rao garu, I think Karna came to Parusurama in order to learn Brahma-astra. That vidya is not taught to everyone. You need to have certain qualifications which only few can attain, one of them who attained was Arjuna. Karna as you know was Suta putra, and he thought he cannot get that astra vidya if Parusurama was told about his birth...so he lied. The reason Parusurama cursed him was for this reason, that Karna lied to him about who he was...Karna's birth is secondary to the actual reason for him getting cursed. It can only be debated if Parausurama would have taught Karna if Karna had told about his birth or not.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2013 01:34

Index of online Hindu texts:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm#other

Narada and Brihaspati Nyaya Shastra:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe33/index.htm

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Sep 2013 17:15

venug wrote: You need to have certain qualifications which only few can attain, one of them who attained was Arjuna.

Arjuna had Pashupat-astra he only used it when Ashwasthama used the Brahmashira against him.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Sep 2013 20:41

Ashwatthama's Brahmastra was countered by Brahmastra by Arjun, Negi ji... Even Arjuna did not use pashupatastra. It was supposed to be the deterrence and the last resort. Only story which depicts deployment of Pashupatastra is when Shiva (In sharabha form) tamed Narasimha who was ravaging the earth uncontrollably after killing Hiranyakashyapu and his forces. After narasimha was stunned by Sharabha, Prahlada's pleading completely tamed him and he left the world in peace.

As far as I have heard, Same Sharabha-form was deployed by Shiva to tame the Varaha avatara of Vishnu after the avatar went similarly out of control after killing hiranyaksha and rescuing Earth.

tells us rather interesting things about the whole concept of Avatara. They should be avoided as far as possible. An Avatara, more often than not, screws things up for dharma. Yes, adharma is destroyed but there always is a chance of avatara going out of hand..

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2013 20:44

^

Atri mahasaya, your post reminded me a telugu novel I read "Aham brahmasmi" about Tarakasura.

It talks about narasimha gana, Rudra gana etc interms of the followers of narasimha growing their nails etc (to mimic narasimha) and going around harassing and killin the followers of Hiranyakasapa. Similarly Rudra gana being the followers of Taraka who fought against narasimha gana.

I read that novel circa 1992 and cannot find it anymore

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Sep 2013 20:45

^ Atr ji just curious when did Arjuna get the Brahmastra (BR chopra's Mahabharat shows him deploying the Pashupatastra in response to the Brahmashira deployed by Ashwathama which former got from SHiv ji during Kiraat episode) ?

Also there is a lot of confusion on this astra topic as I clearly remember reading that Brhamastra!= Brahmashira astra latter is more powerful weapon and Ashwathama had the latter. Brahmastra has been used numerous times in Ramayan.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Sep 2013 21:02

Arjuna received brahmastra from guru Drona, negi ji.. The famous story of Drona giving the pots of small mouths to other kids and larger mouth to Ashwatthama so that he could teach Brahmastra to his son in secret. Arjuna as a kid finds this trick of his master and somehow manages to reach there in time to learn Brahmastra from guru. The education of chakravyuha too is similarly imparted to Ashwatthama and arjuna by Drona.

As far as I know, Arjuna deploys brahmashiras in response to Ashwatthama's brahmastra. Brahmashiras can be recalled, brahmastra cannot be recalled - this is the difference that we learn from the story.

Yes, Ramayana, Brahmastra is much more widely deployed. Some how, some sort of NPT-regime was implemented by the time of MBH discouraging the use of such WMDs. In ramayana, the famous story of Rama releasing the brahmastra on Indra who was trying to molest Seeta by trying to fondle her breasts in form of a crow (what a downfall from Indra of Vedas to Indra of Puranas).

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Sep 2013 21:16

^ Indra is not revered by anyone that I know that is why we have people with names like Indrajeet but not Indra .

Nevermind IK Gujaral comes to my mind.

Btw hindu mythology is very confusing not only puranas and upnishads have different stories on same subject but the two schools Shaivites and Vaishnavites have at times even contradicting takes on same event , the Narsimha story and avtaar's encounter with Sharabha is one such classic example.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 22 Sep 2013 21:26

Atri ji,

Both sides used Brahmastras, but Arjun knew how to recall it, while Ashwathama did not. Hence, he redirected it to Arjun's unborn son. Since directing the Brahmastra against a human would have destroyed the universe, and since a fetus is not considered a human being (it is brahma swaroop), targeting that unborn did not destroy the universe.

Ashwathama was rebuked by Ved Vyas for using a weapon he could not control. But he was cursed by Krishna to forever have a pus filled forehead for this act of inhumanity.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Sep 2013 21:29

As society became more stable, warrior gods were replaced by family-oriented gods. Why Indra-Varuna, eve, check which avatars of vishnu are popular. As compared to ram-krishna, there are hardly any temples for varaaha, narasimha and vamana OR even parshurama (a few on western coast of India).

Hindus will have to return to their vedic core, at least a section of them. Shun the murti-pooja, indulge in worshiping the devas using agnihotra, disinvest from huge and rich temples which are nothing but SIVs for the rich vaishyas. nothing can terrorize such society.

The invocation of Vritra slaying Indra and Rudra and chakra wielding Upendra-Trivikrama-Vishnu is what Hindus require now, not radhe-krishna and seeta-raam...

Thanks for the correction, Abhishek ji..

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2013 21:31

Atri wrote:Arjuna received brahmastra from guru Drona, negi ji.. The famous story of Drona giving the pots of small mouths to other kids and larger mouth to Ashwatthama so that he could teach Brahmastra to his son in secret. Arjuna as a kid finds this trick of his master and somehow manages to reach there in time to learn Brahmastra from guru. The education of chakravyuha too is similarly imparted to Ashwatthama and arjuna by Drona.

As far as I know, Arjuna deploys brahmashiras in response to Ashwatthama's brahmastra. Brahmashiras can be recalled, brahmastra cannot be recalled - this is the difference that we learn from the story.

Yes, Ramayana, Brahmastra is much more widely deployed. Some how, some sort of NPT-regime was implemented by the time of MBH discouraging the use of such WMDs. In ramayana, the famous story of Rama releasing the brahmastra on Indra who was trying to molest Seeta by trying to fondle her breasts in form of a crow (what a downfall from Indra of Vedas to Indra of Puranas).

Kakasura was not Indra but Indra's son. BTW, Indra position is not hereditary.

Perhaps we should start a policy in this thread, that we post relavent reference from ONLY Valmiki Ramayana and Vyasa Bharata whenever we talk about such things? I think this will help people not to make incorrect inferences.

P.S: I will post the reference from Valmiki Ramayana in few mins

पुत्रः किल स शक्रस्य वायसः पतताम् वरः || ५-३८-२८
धरा अन्तर चरः शीघ्रम् पवनस्य गतौ समः |
28. saH = vaayasaH = that crow; varaH = the best; patataam = among birds; putraH kila = seems to be the son; shakrasya = of Indra the Lord of celestials; dharaantarayataH = residing; among the mountains; gatau = and in moving; shiighram = speedily; samaH = equal; paranasya = to the wind.

"That crow, the best among birds, seems to be the son of Indra the Lord of celestials, staying in mountains and moving with a peed equal to the wind."

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Sep 2013 21:37

The master politician...

Wounded "Paartha-Sarathi" Krishna

Departure of Krishna

Mahishasura Mardini Durga

Indra Slaying Vritra

Shiva-Shakti in Pranaya-Kreeda

Raam fighting Kumbhakarna on the back of Maruti

Chakradhaari krishna

Vishnu in Mohini form

And my favorite - Mahadev smoking good stuff through his chillum..

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Sep 2013 21:44

Quite frankly I find the above pics offensive, but hell I am not a follower of Islam to call for your head under blasphemy

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2013 21:45

^ Which one did you find offensive sir?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Sep 2013 21:58

Savyasachi Arjuna

Dronacharya

Trivikrama-Upendra (Rigvedik Vishnu)

Flirtatious Krishna

विनय न माने जलधि जड़ गए तीन दिन बीती, बोले राम सकोप तब, भय बिन होय न प्रीती... Raam threatening Samudra to show OR face destruction

Krishna as Narasimha

Brahma

For more photos, check out the FB page of this artist - https://www.facebook.com/MoleeArt

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Sep 2013 22:36

Btw an interesting trivia the chap who played the part of Ashwathama in BR Chopra's MB is the same chap who plays a lot of negative characters in SI movies he also played the role of Gajini in Amir Khan's remake of the south Indian hit movie.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2013 00:03

Negi, In the recounting of Andhra Mahbhartiyam, Arjuna uses the Pasupatastra on Saindahava's head to keep it in the air and fall into his father's lap.

BTW, Veda Vyasa meets the Pandavas in the Aranyaparva and tells them to get divya astras as Kauravas have Bhisma and Drona who have such weapons and are thus undefeatable/ Then Yudhistir asks Arjuna to seek Divya Astras. He prays to Indra who tells him to obtain the Pasupata Astra from Shiva.
The ACK had a description with nice picture of all the divya astras and from whom that Arjuna obtained.

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Sep 2013 02:12

Atri and Co what is the story behind Arjuna also being known as Sabyasachi (ambidextrous ) ? So he could wield and use the Gandeev with both hands ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Sep 2013 02:39

Atri wrote: In ramayana, the famous story of Rama releasing the brahmastra on Indra who was trying to molest Seeta by trying to fondle her breasts in form of a crow (what a downfall from Indra of Vedas to Indra of Puranas).

!

I was not aware of this.. when did this happen? hope this is not a SI Indra story line.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2013 02:43

SaiK wrote:
Atri wrote: In ramayana, the famous story of Rama releasing the brahmastra on Indra who was trying to molest Seeta by trying to fondle her breasts in form of a crow (what a downfall from Indra of Vedas to Indra of Puranas).
! I was not aware of this.. when did this happen?

Kakasura vrittantam. As told by Sita to Hanuman so Rama recognizes that Hanuma met real Sita. It happened when they were in Aranyavasa, most likely in Panchavati area - surroundings of Godawari. Most likely modern location is Godavari banks as it enters Andhra Pradesh.

Negiji, eventhough Kakasura was Indra's son, please note that is called kaka-Asura. Flies on the face of all idiotic Dravidians.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 23 Sep 2013 03:14

RamaY wrote: Kakasura was not Indra but Indra's son. BTW, Indra position is not hereditary.

Perhaps we should start a policy in this thread, that we post relavent reference from ONLY Valmiki Ramayana and Vyasa Bharata whenever we talk about such things? I think this will help people not to make incorrect inferences.

P.S: I will post the reference from Valmiki Ramayana in few mins

पुत्रः किल स शक्रस्य वायसः पतताम् वरः || ५-३८-२८
धरा अन्तर चरः शीघ्रम् पवनस्य गतौ समः |
28. saH = vaayasaH = that crow; varaH = the best; patataam = among birds; putraH kila = seems to be the son; shakrasya = of Indra the Lord of celestials; dharaantarayataH = residing; among the mountains; gatau = and in moving; shiighram = speedily; samaH = equal; paranasya = to the wind.

"That crow, the best among birds, seems to be the son of Indra the Lord of celestials, staying in mountains and moving with a peed equal to the wind."

Thanks RamaY ji... I see your point now... I stand corrected..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2013 03:55

Atriji, Stella Kramrisch wrote a book Vishnu Dharmaottora sutra in 1928 which is an English translation of the Sanskrit text which describes how to depict Vishnu. Looks like the above artist is inspired by the movie Avatar type of rendering.

http://archive.org/details/vishnudharmottar031493mbp

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2013 04:06

negi wrote:^ Indra is not revered by anyone that I know that is why we have people with names like Indrajeet but not Indra .

Nevermind IK Gujaral comes to my mind.

Btw hindu mythology is very confusing not only puranas and upnishads have different stories on same subject but the two schools Shaivites and Vaishnavites have at times even contradicting takes on same event , the Narsimha story and avtaar's encounter with Sharabha is one such classic example.

I know many of us dislike Indra.

Few things that are blamed on Indra.
0/ Indra, accepted the punishment for every one of his faults. He didn't rebel against dharma whenever he was in the wrong side of dharma.
1/ Going behind Ahalya - Ahalya too succumbed to him, for he was Indra. That is why Gautama cursed them both.
2/ Vrittasura - Indra was scared of his mistake and accepted the punishment.
3/ Trisira - Indra accepted the punishment, for he went underground, which resulted in Nahusha becoming the Indra. One should learn the story of Nahusha to understand how he behaved as Indra.
4/ killing the unborn baby of diti and making them Krittikas (?) - even here, he patiently waited until diti behaves Adharmic

Etc.,

By the way the story of wives of Saptarshi's was about Agni.

All our Hindu stories are about men trying to go beyond Purusha/Prakriti duality in human form instead of thru Jnana/intellect. Every man fell for that whey they thought the difference between Purusha and Prakruti is physical in nature, while the men who understood the KARANA/causal difference between Purush and Prakruti moved beyond this to become god-realized.

Viswamitra, my ancestor, realized this difference after he faulted few times.

One should see swamy nityanandas and their disciples from this perspective.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2013 04:08

Atri wrote: Thanks RamaY ji... I see your point now... I stand corrected..

Nothing personal Atri mahasaya, for your are my Atma bandhu

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2013 04:16

ramana wrote:Negi, In the recounting of Andhra Mahbhartiyam, Arjuna uses the Pasupatastra on Saindahava's head to keep it in the air and fall into his father's lap.

BTW, Veda Vyasa meets the Pandavas in the Aranyaparva and tells them to get divya astras as Kauravas have Bhisma and Drona who have such weapons and are thus undefeatable/ Then Yudhistir asks Arjuna to seek Divya Astras. He prays to Indra who tells him to obtain the Pasupata Astra from Shiva.
The ACK had a description with nice picture of all the divya astras and from whom that Arjuna obtained.

True. I think Pasupatastra is different from Brahmastras in that it can be highly maneuverable and mission specific. Brahmastras on the other hand are mission specific, they just know how to kill.

BTW - it shows the intellect of Arjuna and his friend about which Astra suits what.

Atri ji, Arjuna used Varunastra to fill that pot quicker than others so he can learn he lessons Dronacharya's was teaching Aswathama.

When Karna asked Drona for Brahmastra knowledge, he declined. So instead of pursuing Drona about his qualification, Karna ditched Drona and went to Parasurama (lying).

***

I posted this before.

Karna wanted to become the best archer irrespective of his qualification and thru dubious means if necessary.
Arjuna wanted to become best archer thru his practice, interest and more than anything with the blessings of Guru (Drona).
Ekalvya wanted to become the best archer only based on his qualification, even without guru parampara.

Each one of them got the best their strategies can deliver.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Sep 2013 04:34

aaah kakasuran story i have heard, but not per what atri ji says. that was only tasting flesh and blood of sita, but fondling her is not what I have heard.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2013 05:23

SaiK wrote:aaah kakasuran story i have heard, but not per what atri ji says. that was only tasting flesh and blood of sita, but fondling her is not what I have heard.

When kakasura, son of indra to test Rama's krodha* (different from anger), in the form of a crow pecked Sita's brests some equated it with an Asura fondling Sita's brests. When one mixes the lines between different species things get interesting.

Krodha - is different from anger that anger is something one gets out of helplessness, while Krodha is something one gets when they see Adharma and display of their cabaility to punish that Aadharma, something like that. They were testing to what extent Rama would go when women are hurt.

We all get angry, when we the other doesn't obay us and we cannot do much about it. But it is different from a Parikshit getting angry when Kali was kicking dharma Devata for Kali was scared of Parikshit could punish him.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2013 06:29

One more point w.r.t Indra, when he asked Karna for kavacha-Kundalas he went as a Brahmin asking for alms. But when he realized the magnanimity and commitment of Karna for his Dana quality, he gave him what he wanted, Indra sakti.

Now we have Karna who had Indra sakti, who could have been used to kill Arjuna. Arjuna had different Astras to destroy Kauravas if needed.

We all know who used what for what and how it all ended.

Story of the moral is - earning the capabilities is one aspects while using them at the right time is another thing. Both are important.

niran · Post by **niran** » 23 Sep 2013 10:31

RamaY wrote:
Negiji, eventhough Kakasura was Indra's son, please note that is called kaka-Asura. Flies on the face of all idiotic Dravidians.

his mother was an Asura princess, there is a story in Valmiki Ramayan during one of the DevaSur battle Kakasur was commanding the Dev army, Asuras facing a route send Kakasur Nanaji he tells kakasur
that his mother is gravely ill or some such thing kakasur went away and in the ensuing confusion Devatha
lost.

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 Sep 2013 18:29

Afaik Karna was refused by Drona as former was not a royal at that point he was not even an expert archer .