India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Tit-for-tat kick as bitterness lingers US diplomat tied to tickets told to leave
The US diplomat has to leave India by Sunday afternoon, officials said, or risk a criminal prosecution on charges of tax evasion and interference in the work of Indian legal authorities.{India should have filed the charge sheet before asking the diplomat to be withdrawn. Here again the same old pattern can be seen.}
;;;
India will also not roll back any of the multiple measures it has taken to downgrade the privileges it had earlier allowed to the US embassy, consulates and their diplomats after Khobragade’s December 12 arrest, senior officials indicated.{Good. Hope they do not go back to the old practice of unequal privileges once the dust has settled.}

New Delhi will wait for a few weeks before re-entering into high-profile public meets with senior officials of the Barack Obama administration who Indian officials have shunned over the past three weeks, the officials said.

“The immediate heat may be dissipating, but we are by no means happy, and the relationship isn’t back to where it was before December 12,” an official said. “That will take time and political will from both sides.”

Khobragade will now be posted in a director-level position in the ministry of external affairs here in India.

India, officials said, would continue to pressure the US to drop charges against Khobragade, suggesting that the diplomat’s departure from that nation has reduced the case against her to a “show trial.”
vasu raya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

habal, if the maid and family were spirited away why would they leave a part of the family spy ring, the father in law potentially exposed? at this point even the T visa stuff doesn't have any legal cover since the charges filed didn't include the human trafficking part.

The gang of 30 that were arrested in Tuticorin are all foreign nationals, so Americans are playing it safe by engaging other nationalities when violating laws of another country. Probably its the same with Indic origin Bharara, the frontman and the likely fall guy, they left a gap wide open for Indian courts to indict Bharara on 'evacuation' charges, hoping the buck stops with him.
habal
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by habal »

the whole ring may be compromised, and they cannot take out everybody causing massive loss of face. This could well be the reason behind DK's treatment by SD. Because DK caught hold of SR passing on some stuff over mobile. So she stole the mobile. DK then filed police case, which for obvious reasons was met with unusually cold interest by US cops. SR also went incognito. It will slowly come out, in DK's own words.
pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

KP Nayar gives his perspective on some of the common question ..

Was she… and can she…?
Was Khobragade expelled by the US?

It will remain a matter of dispute between New Delhi and Washington. On January 8, Khobragade was accorded all the privileges and immunities of a diplomatic envoy in her new job as counsellor at the permanent mission of India to the UN in New York. At the same time, the US requested India to waive her immunity so that she can be prosecuted. The next day, India turned down the US request.

It is India’s contention that simultaneously the external affairs ministry transferred Khobragade to the headquarters and she left for New Delhi because of the transfer. But the US insists that she was expelled because India refused to waive her immunity and let her face prosecution.

Is she persona non-grata in America now?

According to normal diplomatic practice, Khobragade is now ineligible for a US diplomatic visa, which she will need to enter the US on her diplomatic passport. However, if India decides to send her to New York on a short-term assignment at the UN, such as the annual General Assembly, the US has to give her a diplomatic visa under what is known as the “Headquarters Agreement” between the UN and the US under which the international community agreed to base the UN on American soil.

But if that happens, she cannot travel anywhere outside New York in the US, a restraint which the US placed on its “enemies” like Fidel Castro, Yasser Arafat or Muammar Gaddafi when they went to the UN General Assembly.

What if Khobragade returns to America? Will she be arrested?

Preet Bharara, the US attorney for Manhattan, has told the trial judge that the charges against Khobragade will remain pending until such time as she can be brought to court to face the charges, either through a waiver of immunity or her return to the US in a non-immune status. Till then, the legal position is that “this defendant is unavailable because her whereabouts are known but (her) presence for trial cannot be obtained by due diligence or (she) resists appearing at or being returned for trial”.

Why was there confusion about her departure?

The state department was deliberately vague in its communication with Bharara about Khobragade’s whereabouts on January 9 afternoon, ostensibly because it wanted to tamp down the whole issue which had got out of hand. As a result, Bharara was left with the impression that Khobragade had left the US and wrote to the trial judge in so many words, a letter which he took down from his US attorney website an hour after it was put up. India played along because it gave New Delhi a sense of what might happen when Khobragade actually flew out of New York a few hours later. The confusion convinced India that her departure would be without any hitch.

Khobragade’s lawyer has said she is leaving with her head held high? Does this bear out against the indictment?

It is to make such tall claims that lawyers are paid exorbitant fees in the US. It is India, not Khobragade, who has emerged tall with its head held high in the eyes of the world from this episode. Along Washington’s “Embassy Row”, opinion is unanimous that India stood up to American bullying and proved that it cannot be pushed around even by the world’s only superpower on its own soil. The global diplomatic community is grateful that the external affairs ministry salvaged the Vienna Conventions from American tampering with all the power at its command and proved their continued relevance in state-to-state dealings.

What was the give and take?

The end of the episode was a compromise worked out between India and the US to move beyond the Khobragade arrest to which bilateral relations were becoming captive. India insisted that if the US did not recognise Khobragade’s immunity as a consular officer, it had other means to secure her immunity through the UN and succeeded in doing so. The US strictly followed established procedures in granting her immunity, then seeking a waiver and asking her to leave when India refused.

Was Khobragade flown out by the Indians the same way the Americans got out the Richard family?

The Americans did not know precisely when and how Khobragade was departing New York because India kept it a closely guarded secret until after her flight had crossed out of US air space. There was no lookout notice for her in New York. But the state department had no objection to her leaving. In fact, it is their contention that they asked her to leave the US.

Was Khobragade on an Indian plane? Could the US government have asked the plane to return?

Khobragade’s departure on an Air India flight was considered on January 9 morning but the plan was abandoned in order not to bring Air India also into the vortex of the swirling controversy in case something went wrong. Once the state department asked for her departure, it was considered safe for her to take any commercial flight.

A request for a plane to return to its takeoff point is usually followed up by scrambling fighter aircraft to escort the flight back by coercion if the pilot refuses. The best-known example of this was in 1985 when Ronald Reagan forced an Egypt Air plane carrying Palestinian hijackers of the cruise ship Achille Lauro with F-14 Tomcats to land at a Nato base in Sicily where the hijackers were arrested.

What if Devyani is posted in a country like the UK that has a special relationship with the US? Can that country send her to the US to be arrested?

The UK may have a special relationship with America, but Whitehall has a long tradition of meticulously following international treaty obligations unlike the White House which is often unilateralist. The UK is a signatory to the Vienna Conventions and follows them in letter and spirit. Witness Britain’s treatment of Julian Assange who has been living at Ecuador’s embassy in London for a year and a half: the UK has strictly followed diplomatic conventions in this case and can be counted on to do so if Khobragade is posted to London.

Will the privileges of US diplomats in India be restored?

Indications are that US diplomats are unlikely to get back any special privileges they had anytime soon. The mood in the country is in favour of strict reciprocity with the Americans. The tit-for-tat expulsion of a US diplomat from New Delhi shows that although Khobragade is back home, the wounds in Indo-US relations are still raw and will remain so for a considerable time.

What will happen to Sangeeta Richard now?

Richard is the biggest gainer in this whole chain of events. Opinion persists that she and her family managed to take both the Indian and the US governments for a ride so that they could live the American dream. Prospective immigrants to the US normally wait years or decades to realise their dream. The maid swung it in a matter of months for herself and her family. In all likelihood, they will remain in the US as new immigrants.
vic
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vic »

I hope somebody noticed that Wayne was liason officer with Delhi Police. No wonder inspite of FIRs, Delhi Police allowed SR family to get away. Delhi Police directly works under Union of India Govt, so Munna is personally responsible for abduction and rape of Indian Diplomat by his Sith Lord.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Will the privileges of US diplomats in India be restored?

Indications are that US diplomats are unlikely to get back any special privileges they had anytime soon. The mood in the country is in favour of strict reciprocity with the Americans. The tit-for-tat expulsion of a US diplomat from New Delhi shows that although Khobragade is back home, the wounds in Indo-US relations are still raw and will remain so for a considerable time.
Why the ambiguity? Why not say no as long as there is no reciprocity extended to Indian diplomats?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Gus wrote:- i am ashamed (what to say of elsewhere when one mahapurush at BRF said that when somebody at work asked about this and he had no reply :roll: )
Hai!Hai! It appears I have been dissed. I'm not sure but the eye roll is probably a dead give away.

So far the nautanki I have seen only tells me folks have a lot of growing up to do before they can engage with hardball USA.

Lets have a discussion on how to engage the USA in this uneven playing field rather than these childish tantrums.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Arjun »

Theo_Fidel wrote:So far the nautanki I have seen only tells me folks have a lot of growing up to do before they can engage with hardball USA.

Lets have a discussion on how to engage the USA in this uneven playing field rather than these childish tantrums.
If the Americans can't handle a relationship based on reciprocity, this "strategic relationship" is not really worth it.

However, what I suspect is that the US - given its mercantile roots, would ultimately not have a problem in understanding. Its the idiots among the NRIs and RNIs that will remain the larger problem for India.
Last edited by Arjun on 11 Jan 2014 18:32, edited 3 times in total.
pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

ramana wrote:
Will the privileges of US diplomats in India be restored?

Indications are that US diplomats are unlikely to get back any special privileges they had anytime soon. The mood in the country is in favour of strict reciprocity with the Americans. The tit-for-tat expulsion of a US diplomat from New Delhi shows that although Khobragade is back home, the wounds in Indo-US relations are still raw and will remain so for a considerable time.
Why the ambiguity? Why not say no as long as there is no reciprocity extended to Indian diplomats?
"The mood" thing is the root cause. Favors are granted and withdrawn based on "the mood" of the person at hand and not according to the letter of the agreement. "The mood" temptation needs to be removed somehow from the decision making process.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by devesh »

USA is ultimately an immature player. time and again, what we see is that it's actually quite easy to lay fantastical traps for USA to fall into.

repeatedly, they get into worst goof ups and then thump their chests. the only way to handle such an irrational player is to reciprocate and to open up more fronts where the bluster can be put to reverse use. if the Indian Regime had any balls, they'd realize it's quite easy to bait US establishment.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Altair »

^^They just did
CRamS
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

SSridhar wrote:The DK case a blessing in disguise in one way perhaps. For quite sometime now, we were getting uncomfortably close to the Americans and a reality check was sorely needed and it came in this form. In our generosity, our usual servility, previous arrogant cases of the 'ugly American' (not for nothing have they earned this sobriquet worldwide) were condoned and taken in our stride. The Americans like those who give them back on their face and therefore there is a possibility that the asymmetry would turn for the better even if only by a few turns of the screw. This new realization, if ever it was needed after our past experiences with the 'ugly Americans', should henceforth drive our India policies vis-a-vis the US.
SSJi, I agree with you. But for the blessing in disguise to kick in, it requires a fair amount of unity and sense of nationalism on the Indian side. Based on my experience dealing with Americans, they are viciously vindictive and cold-blooded in their revenge (human rights, my ass). But more than US, I fear the traitors, the RNIs, the MUTU NRIs and Uncle Toms, and sundry other argumentative Indians. I cannot understand how even knowledgeable BRits can fall for this crap that US did all this tamasha only because they care for labor rights and that poor "exploited" maid.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

CRamS wrote:But more than US, I fear the traitors, the RNIs, the MUTU NRIs and Uncle Toms, and sundry other argumentative Indians.
Yes, they are a source of great worry as they undermine from within.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

SSridhar wrote:
CRamS wrote:But more than US, I fear the traitors, the RNIs, the MUTU NRIs and Uncle Toms, and sundry other argumentative Indians.
Yes, they are a source of great worry as they undermine from within.
Judging by comments on Sibal's article, the capacity of many with Indian-sounding handles to bluster and insult seems to be more than the capacity to think with clarity and understand the issues. Not all of them are NRIs etc, judging by the location.

I think one thing the fallout of this incident shows is that the collective wisdom of the Great Indian People--particularly the educated, computer-using class--cannot be relied upon to defend and advance Indian interests.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

To be taken with a bucket of salt .. post-facto annon comments are often used for cover up .. also the comments are for consumption in India and not in the western press hence suspect. I am often reminded of the distinctly paki trait of saying one thing to the domestic audience and quite another to foreign audience.

Top US leadership feels diplomat row 'most stupid thing to do'
Washington: Recognising the damage that the diplomat row has done to the India-US relationship, there is a realisation in the top American leadership that "it was the most stupid thing to do" on their part and that they would now have to "work overtime" to bring back the ties on track.

As Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade landed in New Delhi last night, there was a sense of relief in the US government, with officials expressing their determination to move forward the relationship, which President Barack Obama has described as the defining partnership of the 21st century.

"The US and India enjoy a broad and deep friendship, and this isolated episode is not indicative of the close and mutually respectful ties that we share," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said.

Obama, sources said, was regularly updated on the development and National Security Advisor Susan Rice too was monitoring the situation; so was Secretary of State John Kerry, it is believed.

"This has clearly been a challenging time in the US-India relationship. We expect and hope that this will now come to closure and the Indians will now take significant steps with us to improve our relationship and return it to a more constructive place," State Department Spokesperson Jen Psaki told reporters.

Arrested on December 12, Khobragade, 39, was strip- searched and held with criminals, triggering a row between the two countries with India retaliating by downgrading privileges of certain category of US diplomats among other steps.

Now that the Khobragade has returned to India, sources told a news agency that there was "furious" reaction in the top American leadership when this was first brought to their notice on December 12, the day Khobragade was arrested in New York on charges of visa fraud and misrepresentation of facts.

"It was one of the most stupid thing to do," a top American leadership is learnt to have said, referring to the damage the diplomat case has done to the India-US ties.

In fact a source pointed that the level of "furious reaction" in the top American leadership was similar to that of India. "If the Indians were furious, so were we."
{ :rotfl: Does it not make you wonder why then they did not immediately put a stop to the farce. Why the inordinate delay in issuing G1 visa to DK?}

It is one of the reasons why, Kerry in the middle of his overseas trip, made it a point to reach out to External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid and since he could not be available at that time, he spoke with National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon.

During the conversation, Kerry is believed to have apologised for the incident, sources said.

But the public statement issued by the State Department noted that Kerry expressed his regret to Menon.
I will believe the last only when I see a clean and unambiguous public apology issues by Curry.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by rahulm »

Since mango man is not privy to private apologies and assertions, only those made in public are relevant.
pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

The usual suspects are at it again .. enjoy.

South Asian rights bodies support Khobragade's maid
Washington: A coalition of South Asian rights bodies in the US has came out in support of Devyani Khobragade's maid Sangeeta Richard, who has claimed that she suffered while working for the Indian diplomat.

"We stand with Sangeeta Richard and call upon our community members to support her and domestic workers around the country," National Coalition of South Asian Organisations (NCSO), which comprises of nearly four dozen rights bodies.

In a statement, NCSO yesterday urged policymakers and government agencies to enact and enforce policies that will protect the rights of domestic workers, just as the Attorney's Office and the Department of Justice did in this case.

Referring to the grand jury indictment brought by US Attorney Preet Bharara against Khobragade for allegedly committing visa fraud and making false statements, NCSO said Sangeeta was working at least 100 hours per week for a wage that amounted to USD 1.42 per hour.

"We commend the US Attorney's Office for enforcing the rights of (Sangeeta) Richard under the law," it said, adding that at the same time, it appears that Khobragade, who was arrested and released on a bail in December, was granted diplomatic immunity and has now returned to India.

"These developments raise grave concerns about the extent to which we value the rights of domestic workers, and whether there will be a chilling effect on the willingness of domestic workers to pursue claims against their employers, diplomats or not," NCSO said.

NCSO said the case has highlighted the struggles faced by many domestic workers like Sangeeta.

"There are between 1.8 and 2.5 million domestic workers in the US - many of them South Asian immigrant women...Often, many workers are underpaid, overworked and subjected to conditions and experiences that no one should endure,"it said.

Meanwhile, the apex body of South Asian attorneys in North America also refused to take sides in the diplomat case.

"The rule of law must be followed where wrongdoing is alleged, but the application of those rules often differs from country to country," the South Asian Bar Association of North America said in a statement.

"We do not presume to know all the facts, nor do we advocate for one side or the other in this situation. The fact that both prosecutor and accused are South Asian does not and should not affect the manner in which the rule of law is applied," it said.

"We have faith in the US judicial system and its capability of resolving these types of complicated cases in a fair manner," said its vice president Neil C Maskari.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Pure, unalloyed hogwash, to say the least. The Americans are furious that Indians were furious for the first time over their habitual mistreatment at American hands. They were left wondering what happened this time that the usually docile decided to retaliate. That made them furious, not the 'stupid' behaviour of the 'Ugly American'. There is no substantial feeling of guilt or remorse in anything they have said.

The news is sourced from PTI and it is the usual tendency to interpret statements into what we want to hear.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

pankajs

I wonder how much the families of these "South Asian" busy bodies back in India pay their maids? I mean do they give healthcare, 401K, pension plans etc. The self righteousness of Americans and their MUTUs and clownss like these busy bodies is breath taking.

I am no piskologist, but Americans and those who land up here and get taken in by Americans have this pompous, phony self righteous complex. My take is that having built their empire on slave labor and other forms of colonial exploitation, that lurking guilt conscience results in this Pavlovian complex of taking a moral stance even if in reality it means nothing. Now the beauty of this is that they continue to commit grave human rights abuses secure in their self righteous belief that they are executing and upholding a moral principle. For e.g., to a dispassionate observer, gang raping Iraq to loot their oil is the ultimate form of human rights abuse, but Americans (except those who lost kith and kin) don't battle an eye lid because the purpose is couched in some bogus moral crusade (the war criminals are living a kushy retired life) . And its very difficult for Americans to see this, as in the DK case, except those policy makers who know the game they are up to.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

KLNMurthyJi,

Which is the Sibal article you are referring to? I must have missed it. Did you mean Kanwal Sibal? I like him and I mostly agree with his views.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

I propose that GOI make DK the in-charge of deciding on the merits of immunity, privileges, etc. Let the American diplomats in India petition her in all such cases and in cases of excessive pandugiri in these difficult and troubling times for American diplomats posted in India.
Last edited by pankajs on 11 Jan 2014 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by habal »

I think when some Indian comes back from the US, they see the gaggle i.e Indian public as some kind of caged animals or people with base instincts. Since Indians are not people who withhold their emotions and wear their emotions on their sleeves and the reporters etc are prone to ask all manner of questions without exercising any restraint, coupled with their inadequate language skills which more often than not reflect lack of EQ and intemperate attitude, make the Gen-Y/Gen-X desi visitor think that these are not their kind of people. Thus they become very guarded in their interactions with Indian public. Then there are some maybe desi buffoon relatives who reinforce their perceptions. What they do not realize is that the superior civlization attributes on offer in countries like USA are but a mask to fool the public into fake sentimentality which do not acknowledge the past history or how they reached the particular postion they have through any means possible: What made the resource allocation so skewed in favor of some countries, what were the crimes committed by their mentors to create such an imbalance etc. Immigrants are then helped settle into these fake countries with manufactured ethos with the help of a veneer of emotive sentimentalist nationalism and pseudo human rights mask and they are encouraged to help themselves to perch above this fake high moral ground of their adopted country.

This is the main reason why the mango INdian public is not in a position to influence desi Americans who come visiting. They are alienated by all the above factors. When you cannot appeal to the base emotions of a person, then they will soon find ways and means to justify their angst. So this duality which creates mutus etc. I am looking at the press running after Devyani, and she maybe just sees them as a intrusion on her privacy or just a rabble. It is just difficult to connect, and is a culture shock.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Khobragade moves US court; seeks dismissal of visa fraud case
Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade has moved a federal court in New York to dismiss the visa fraud case against her, saying there is lack of personal jurisdiction since she had been accorded full diplomatic immunity by the U.S. Department of State.

Ms. Khobragade’s lawyer Daniel Arshack submitted a four-page “motion seeking dismissal of action for lack of personal jurisdiction” on January 9, with Magistrate Judge Sarah Netburn of the U.S. District Court of the Southern District of New York.

She was indicted for visa fraud and making false statements but flew back to India on the night of January 9, from the JFK airport here on an Air India flight after she was accorded diplomatic immunity by the State Department and was asked to depart from the U.S.

Mr. Arshack said in his motion that even as the U.S. Department of State fully credentialed Ms. Khobragade as a diplomat assigned to the Permanent Mission of India to the U.N., “additionally and unexpectedly, they have required her immediate departure from the U.S.”

“Khobragade hereby moves this court for a dismissal of this prosecution for a lack of personal jurisdiction now that she has been designated as a diplomat and has acquired immunity.

“The case should be dismissed without necessity of any further hearing or proceedings because Ms. Khobragade as a diplomat is entitled to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution in accordance with Article 31 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations,” Mr. Arshack said.

“This court is clearly deprived of personal jurisdiction of Khobragade by virtue of her diplomatic immunity but nonetheless retains subject matter jurisdiction to hear this motion and dismiss this criminal proceeding,” Mr. Arshack said.

The U.S. State department has assured Ms. Khobragade that her departure in compliance with their order does not constitute a violation of the terms of her release from the court on bond on the visa fraud and false statements charges she faces.

Mr. Arshack said that since Ms. Khobragade has been given diplomatic status, she has “automatically” been vested with diplomatic immunity from criminal liability in the U.S. while she continues to maintain such diplomatic status.
RKumar

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RKumar »

Top US leadership feels diplomat row 'most stupid thing to do'
Washington: Recognising the damage that the diplomat row has done to the India-US relationship, there is a realisation in the top American leadership that "it was the most stupid thing to do" on their part and that they would now have to "work overtime" to bring back the ties on track.

As Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade landed in New Delhi last night, there was a sense of relief in the US government, with officials expressing their determination to move forward the relationship, which President Barack Obama has described as the defining partnership of the 21st century.

"The US and India enjoy a broad and deep friendship, and this isolated episode is not indicative of the close and mutually respectful ties that we share," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said.

Obama, sources said, was regularly updated on the development and National Security Advisor Susan Rice too was monitoring the situation; so was Secretary of State John Kerry, it is believed.

"This has clearly been a challenging time in the US-India relationship. We expect and hope that this will now come to closure and the Indians will now take significant steps with us to improve our relationship and return it to a more constructive place," State Department Spokesperson Jen Psaki told reporters.

Arrested on December 12, Khobragade, 39, was strip- searched and held with criminals, triggering a row between the two countries with India retaliating by downgrading privileges of certain category of US diplomats among other steps.

Now that the Khobragade has returned to India, sources told a news agency that there was "furious" reaction in the top American leadership when this was first brought to their notice on December 12, the day Khobragade was arrested in New York on charges of visa fraud and misrepresentation of facts.

"It was one of the most stupid thing to do," a top American leadership is learnt to have said, referring to the damage the diplomat case has done to the India-US ties.

In fact a source pointed that the level of "furious reaction" in the top American leadership was similar to that of India. "If the Indians were furious, so were we."
{ :rotfl: Does it not make you wonder why then they did not immediately put a stop to the farce. Why the inordinate delay in issuing G1 visa to DK?}

It is one of the reasons why, Kerry in the middle of his overseas trip, made it a point to reach out to External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid and since he could not be available at that time, he spoke with National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon.

During the conversation, Kerry is believed to have apologised for the incident, sources said.

But the public statement issued by the State Department noted that Kerry expressed his regret to Menon.
Why it is only in Indian news papers?

It is paid news printed and promoted by US to make mango Indians feel important and show that US worries about us. Similar to Nepal's visit cancellation by the Ma'am :lol:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

RKumar wrote:Top US leadership feels diplomat row 'most stupid thing to do'Why it is only in Indian news papers?

It is paid news printed and promoted by US to make mango Indians feel important and show that US worries about us. Similar to Nepal's visit cancellation by the Ma'am
It could well be or it is just over interpretation of some innocuous statements but even that does not offer anything significant.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ashish raval »

US-India relationship now is at least ten years back to era of George bush. Massa will have to work hard. Some desis try to to prove themselves being whiter than white after finding so called freedom word from the dictionary which khans use to hammer to public day in and day out in media, entertainment etc. I have seen blacks treated worse than dirt in in US when I visited it back in recent past. This is clearly political move by whosoever has done it.

If India wants to up the ante we must be launching couple of 5k SLBM and further more 12k km brahmastra. I am very much surprised and still have no answer on why would they do this ? :evil:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Read this editorial in The Hindu and particularly 'comments' section to understand MUTU behaviour.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Some more explanation from US State Deptt - The Hindu
Ms. Psaki confirmed that a U.S. official accredited to Mission India would be leaving his post at the request of the Government of India, and “We deeply regret that the Indian Government felt it was necessary to expel one of our diplomatic personnel.

On a broader note she added that this has “clearly been a challenging time in the U.S.-India relationship,” and Washington hoped that “this will now come to closure and the Indians will now take significant steps[ with us to improve our relationship and return it to a more constructive place/b]”. {The onus is on the Indians, as usual}

On the subject of fighting human trafficking into the country the Spokesperson noted that the U.S. was “committed… to ensuring all domestic workers are paid for all hours worked… [and] all diplomatic and consular personnel are aware of and abiding by their obligations under U.S. law”.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ashish raval »

Nice one. At least foreign services now know what reciprocity is and don't bend over backwards to anyone. Why did it took so long to realise this to a nation of billion people strong and going to become third largest economy by 2028 ? There are questions which needs to be answered with regards to leadership here. :evil:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shyam »

Looks like US had ratified VCCR and then withdrawn.

International Instruments
The USA ratified the VCCR without reservations in 1969; so fundamental is the right to consular notification and access that the US Department of State considers it to be required under customary international law in all cases, even if the detainee's home country has not signed the VCCR. As of 1 January 2000, at least 167 countries were parties to the VCCR.
....
....
The United States had ratified the VCCR Optional Protocol Concerning the Compulsory Settlement of Disputes. By ratifying the optional protocol, the United States had agreed to submit to the binding jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice for the settlement of claims based on the VCCR. However, on 7 March, 2005, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice informed U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan that the United States "hereby withdraws" from the Optional Protocol to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. The United States proposed the protocol in 1963 and ratified it -- along with the rest of the Vienna Convention -- in 1969. The USA was the first country to invoke the protocol before the ICJ, successfully suing Iran for the taking of 52 U.S. hostages in Tehran in 1979.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

SSridhar wrote:{The onus is on the Indians, as usual}[/i]
I would say 'no thanks' - let the reset be new level of engagement, and keep the relationship strictly between MOD and DoD, India Inc and US Inc. MEA should speak to the SD as little as possible, and shut off access of the US diplomatic corps to our govt. officials. In a way, this episode is a blessing in disguise - as it allows us to view the US relationship without the rose tinted Oakleys, and understand that nothing has really changed between the '70s and now.

I hope MoD quietly allocates a lot more funds and some serious priority to GTRE to light up a fire for the Kaveri. The last really critical piece of tech we are dependent on the US, and the sooner we resolve this, the better for us.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

>> National Coalition of South Asian Organisations (NCSO), which comprises of nearly four dozen rights bodies.

seems to be quite the sunrise industry if south asians themselves have 4 dozen bodies devoted to human rights alone.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Khobragade row: India not so ready to forgive and forget

New York: The political deal allowing Devyani Khobragade to return to India was calculated to give all sides immediate, if temporary closure. But there is no sign, in the short term at least, that India is ready to forgive and forget. The trust built through the US-India nuclear deal has been squandered recklessly through Manhattan Attorney Preet Bharara’s over reach of justice, and it will take sustained US efforts to mend the rift.

An emotionally spent Khobragade landed in Delhi late on Friday from New York after a battle of nerves over two days that resulted in her effective expulsion from the US hours after she was granted immunity from Bharara’s criminal charges against her.
;;
Sure, Khobragade's departure removes the focus of friction between New Delhi and Washington, but the young diplomat will still have a high personal price to pay as the indictment will prevent her from coming back to the US. Anyone else would be happy to see the last of the US after such an ordeal but things are complicated for Khobragade who has left behind two young daughters studying in the US and a husband, Aakash Singh Rathore who is a US citizen and professor at the University of Pennsylvania.

Bharara’s office tried to exploit the diplomat’s desire to return to the US in the future. But to Khobragade’s credit, her departure was consistent with her own position that she was not going to indulge in any bargaining with the prosecution which would even remotely amount to acceptance of guilt.

US authorities offered to let Khobragade off on payment of fine saying she would not have to go to jail and she could also return to the US in private capacity. The MEA is said to have rejected this deal.
;;
But this episode has caused significant damage, frustrating the Pentagon, State Department and the US business lobby. Last month, the Pentagon expressed its dismay over the way Bharara and Co. needlessly humiliated Khobragade during her arrest in New York.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/khobraga ... ef_article
---------------------------->>
This was not just an overreach by PB but SD was the one who initiated and championed the deal. Never forget that and that is why a US diplomat was expelled from India. See how the narrative is being re-written right in front of our eyes.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Lest People forget , here is the full text of original complaint leading o arrest of Devyani

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/full-text-co ... 456-2.html
Points to be noted

Charge 1: Visa Fraud
Charge 2:False Statement

Complaint given by Mark J Smith of Bureau to Diplomatic Security USD

So those ,who believe that USD was not complicit and it was a one man show by Preet Bharara, should note that Complaint originated from USD.

Mark Moron Smith consulted Protocol Division of USD to ascertain the immunity status which advised him that this matter is not covered by Consular Immunity.(in red color).

Arrest ordered by Judge and NYPD executed it. She was submitted to ignominy through USMS which is a federal service.

There is, now, no regular indictment but Grand Jury Indictment which carries the above two charges. Hence there is no climb down by PB as claimed by Some. Since Jan 13 was the date of indictment and matter was settled before 10th Jan therefore he opted for Grand Jury indictment onJan 9th.

My impression is that State Dept is fully involved in it. PB was only an accessory. So reports which talk of furious reactions in higher up in USD are misleading.

What is remarkable is that all wheels within USG worked with smoothness and also resulted in extrication of family of SR to US. This gives rise to suspicion that SR was some high value agent or part of such ring .

This also reveals that USD is ready to ignore VCCR for its own purposes. The only remedy to such perfidy is full reciprocity and tit for tat. dare them to do what they can and see if they are up to it. As of now they have egg on their face.

In order to prevent this loophole regarding maid , India must enter into special agreement with US and ensure that such cases are not repeated or provide adequate compensation based on station of posting.
Before: HONORABLE DEBRA FREEMAN

United States Magistrate Judge Southern District of New York

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. Devyani Khobragade, Defendant.

SEALED COMPLAINT

Violations of 18 USC SS 1101, 1546 (a) and 2.

COUNTY OF OFFENSE: NEW YORK

COUNTY OF NEW YORK

STATE OF NEW YORK

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

MARK J. SMITH, being duly sworn, deposes and says that he is a Special Agent with the United States Department of State, Diplomatic Security Service ("DSS"), and charges as follows:


COUNT ONE

(Visa Fraud)

1. In or about November 2012, in the Southern District of New York and elsewhere, Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, willfully and knowingly did make under oath, and under penalty of perjury under Title 28 , United States Code, Section 1746, and did subscribe as true, a false statement with respect to a material fact in an application, affidavit, and other document required by the immigration laws and regulations prescribed there under, and did present such application, affidavit, and other document which contained such false statement and which failed to contain any reasonable basis in law or fact, and did to wit, Khobragade caused to be submitted to the US Department of State an employment contract that Khobragade knew to contain materially false and fraudulent statements, which contract was submitted in support of a visa application filed by Khobragade for another individual.

(Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1546(a) and 2.)

COUNT TWO

(False Statement)

2. In or about November 2012, Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, in a matter within the jurisdiction of the executive branch of the Government of the United States, willfully and knowingly, did falsify, conceal, and cover up by trick, scheme, and device material facts, and made materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements and representations, to wit, Khobragade caused to be submitted to the US Department of State an employment contract that Khobragade knew to contain materially false and fraudulent statements, which contract was submitted in support of a visa application filed by Khobragade for another individual, and Khobragade caused another individual to make statements Khobragade knew to be materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent, to an employee of the United States Embassy in New Delhi, India, in support of the same visa application.

(Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001 and 2.)

The bases for my knowledge and for the foregoing charges are, in part, as follows:

3. I am a Special Agent with D88 and the lead investigator of the above captioned case. I am familiar with the facts and circumstances set forth below from my personal participation in the investigation, including my review of pertinent interviews of witnesses. Because this affidavit is being submitted for the limited purpose of demonstrating probable cause, it does not include details of every aspect of my investigation. Where I relate statements, conversations, and actions of others, those statements, conversations, and actions are related in substance and in part, except where otherwise indicated.

4. Since in or about November 2012, Devyani Khobragde, the defendant, has been employed as the Deputy Consul General for Political, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs at the Consulate General of India in New York, New York. Based on my review of an official database of the US Department of State, and my conversations with an employee of the Protocol section of the US Department of State, which is the entity that accredits foreign diplomats and determines immunity levels, I know that Khobragade enjoys limited diplomatic immunity with respect to only those acts undertaken in her official capacity.

5. Based on my review of the publicly-available website entitled 'Visas for Diplomats and Foreign Government Officials', 1 published by the US Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs (the "Website"), I know the following (the quoted paragraphs below have been copied verbatim from the Website):

a. Diplomats and consulate officers may obtain A~3 visas for their personal employees, domestic workers, and servants if they meet the requirements set out in in 9 Foreign Affairs Manual ("FAM") 41.22.

b. "As part of the application process, an interview at the embassy or consulate is required. Proof that the applicant will receive a fair wage, sufficient to financially support himself, comparable to that being offered in the area of employment in the US is required."

C. To apply for an A-3 visa, the visa applicant must submit the following, among other items:

i. An "Employment Contract signed by both the employer and the employee which must include each of the following items:"

l . "Description of Duties. The contract must describe the work to be performed, e.g., housekeeping, gardening, child care, and also must include a statement that the domestic employee shall work only for the employer who signed the contract.

2. "Hours of Work. The contract must state the time of the normal working hours and the number of hours per week. It is generally expected that domestic workers will be required to work 35-40 hours per week. It also must state that the domestic employee will be provided a minimum of one full day off each week. The contract must indicate the number of paid holidays, sick days, and vacation days the domestic employee will be provided."

3. "Minimum Wage. The contract must state the hourly wage to be paid to the domestic employee. The rate must be the greater of the minimum wage under US Federal and state law, or the prevailing wage for all working hours. Information on the prevailing wage statistics by occupation and metropolitan area is available on the Department of Labor's Online Wage Library & Data Center website"

4. "The contract must state that wages will be paid to the domestic employee either weekly or biweekly. As of March 2011, the Department determined that no deductions are allowed for lodging, medical care, medical insurance, or travel . As of April 2012, deductions taken for meals are also no longer allowed."

5. "Overtime Work. The contract must state that any hours worked in excess of the normal number of hours worked per week are considered overtime hours, and that hours in which the employee is "on call" count as work hours. It also must state that such work must be paid as required by US local laws."

6. "Payment. The contract must state that (after the first 90 days of employment, all wage payments must be made by check or by electronic transfer to the domestic worker's bank account. Neither'MissionJnembers:nor'their'familywnembers should have access to domestic workers' bank accounts. In addition, the Department requires that the employer retain records of employment and payment for three years after the termination of the employment in order to address any complaints that may subsequently arise. Further, the bank account must be in the United States so that domestic workers may readily access and utilize their wages."

7. "Other Required Terms of Employment. The contract must state that the employer agrees to abide by all Federal, State, and local laws in the United States. The contract also must include a statement that the domestic worker' s passport and visa will be in the sole possession of the domestic worker. In addition, the contract must state that a copy of the contract and other personal property of the domestic employee will not be withheld by the employer for any reason. The contract must include a statement that the domestic worker' s presence in the employer' s residence will not be required except during working hours. The contract must also include a statement by the employee, promising not to accept any other employment while working for the employer."

6. Based on my interviews of an individual who, in or about the fall of 2012, was residing in India ("Witness 1"), I know the following, in substance and in part.

a. In or about the 'fall of 2012, Witness~l met at least twice with Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, at Khobragade' s residence in India (the "Residence") in reference to Witness-1's potential employment as a domestic worker for Khobragade in New York, New York.

b. Khobragade told Witness~l that Khobragade was seeking to hire a babysitter who also could handle additional household work at her home in New York. After some discussion, Khobragade agreed to pay Witness-1 30,000 rupees per month. Khobragade stated that she would need to observe Witness-1' s work.

c . At Khobragade's request, Witness-l stayed at the Residence for a trial employment period of several days. At the conclusion of the trial employment period, Khobragade told Witness-1 to expect a call from the United States Embassy in India (the "US Embassy") .

7. Based on my interviews of the spouse of Witness-1 ("Witness-2"), I know the following, in substance and in part:

a. Witness-2 and Witness-1 met with Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, at the Residence in reference to WITNESS-1 s potential employment for Khobragade in New York, New York as a domestic helper. Khobragade offered to pay Witness-1 a starting salary of 25, 000 rupees per month, plus an additional 5, OOO rupees for overtime.

b. At Khobragade' s request, Witness~l stayed at the Residence for a trial employment period of several days.

c. Khobragade stated that she would apply for a passport for Witness-1 through the Indian Ministry of External Affairs. Witness~1 provided Khobragade with her Indian passport.

8. Based on my review of a publicly available report of the US Department of Treasury, which sets forth the rate of exchange in effect as of September 1, 2012, I know that at that time, 52 .35 rupees was equivalent to $1 U. S. dollar. At that rate of exchange, 30,000 rupees is equivalent to $573.07 US dollars. At 40 hours per week, with approximately 4 . 3 weeks in a month, $573 . 07 dollars equates to a rate of $3.31 per hour.

9. Based on my review of a US Department of State database, I know the following:

a. On or about September 27, 2012, an electronic form DS-l60, which is a visa application, was submitted through the website for the US Department of State's Consular Electronic Application Center, for an visa for Devyani Khobragade, the defendant. The visa application for Khobragade stated that nobody assisted Khobragade in the preparation of the application, which was electronically signed by the applicant, Khobragade, and filed from a computer or digital device with an identified IP address (the "Khobragade IP Address") .

b. On or about October 15, 2012, an electronic form DS~16O was submitted through the website for the US Department of State's Consular Electronic Application Center, for an visa for Witness~l. The application for Witness-l (the "Visa Application") indicated that the preparer was Khobragade, and that the Visa Application.was submitted.from a computer or digital device assigned the Khobragade IP Address.

c. The Visa Application stated that an visa was sought for Witness-l, who was to be the personal employee of Khobragade beginning in November 2012 at an address in New York, New York.

d. The Visa Application stated that Witness-l was to be paid $4,500 per month in US dollars.

e. On or about November 1, 2012, Witness-l appeared at the US Embassy to be interviewed in connection with the Visa Application.

10. Based on my interviews of Witness-l, I know the following, in substance and in part:

a. When Witness-l first appeared at the US Embassy to be interviewed in connection with the Visa Application, an employee at the US Embassy told Witness-l she could not be interviewed until she returned with the necessary paperwork.

b. Witness-l contacted Khobragade, who then executed an employment contract with Witness-l (the "First Employment Contract") . Khobragade provided Witness-l with the First Employment Contract to bring to Witness-1's interview at the US Embassy in connection with the Visa Application. Khobragade told Witness-l that the First Employment Contract was a formality to get the visa.

b. Khobragade told Witness-l that Witness-l would be questioned about the terms of the First Employment Contract at her interview, and that Witness-l should say that Witness-l would be paid $9.75 per hour and would work 40 hours per week. Khobragade also instructed Witness-l to say that Witness-1' s duty hours would be 7 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. , and 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 pm Khobragade instructed Witness-l not to say anything about being paid 30,000 rupees per month.

c. Witness-l then provided the First Employment Contract to the U.S . Embassy during her interview in connection with the Visa Application.

11. Based on my interviews of Witness-2, I have learned, in substance and in part, that on or about November 11, 2012, Witness-l and Witness-2 went to the Residence to obtain an employment contract for Witness-l to bring to her interview at the US Embassy. Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, provided Witness-l with the First Employment Contract to bring to her interview. Witness-2 signed the First Employment Contract as a witness. '

12. I have reviewed the First Employment Contract, which is entitled "Employment Contract for Personal (Domestic) Employees of An Alien of a Foreign Mission in the United States (Visa A3) , which is dated November 11, 2012, and which provides, in part:

a. The parties to the First Employment Contract are "Dr. Devyani Khobragade (Deputy Consul General - CGI-NY) (hereinafter referred to as the Employer) and Witness-l (hereinafter referred to as the Employee) ."

b. "The Employee will go to the US with the Employer as a domestic employee. The Employer agrees to employ the Employee at or in connection with the Employer's residence in the position(s) of housekeeper and babysitter."

c. "The Employee will be paid wages at the prevailing or minimum wage rate as required by law, whichever is greater. The expected hourly salary in the US would be $9.75."

d. "The normal number of hours per week shall be 40 hours, including the following normal work hours:" off on Sundays, Monday through Friday from 7am to 12pm and 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm, Saturday from 8 am to 1 pm.

e. "Wages shall be paid biweekly by electronic fund transfer to the Employee' s bank account. Copies of pay_records will be made available without charge to the Employee."

f. "The Employee shall be provided a minimum of at least one full day off each week, which day(s) will normally be Sunday."

g. "In addition, the Employee will be provided time~off from work, as follows...Holidays (With Pay): 7; Sick Days (With Pay): 7; Vacation Days (With Pay):7."

h. "The Employer agrees to abide by all Federal, state, and local laws in the US"

i. "Other benefits normally required for US domestic workers in the area of employment: full medical care, full board and lodging shall be provided at Employer's expense with no unpermitted deductions made."

13 . The First Employment Contract is initialed on the first page with the handwritten initials and the handwritten date 11/11, and is also initialed on the first page by Witness-1. The second and final page of the First Employment Contract bears the signatures of Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, Witness-1, and two witnesses, including Witness-2.

14. Based on my review of a US Department of State database, I know that on or about November 14, 2012, Witness-1 appeared at the US Embassy in connection with the Visa Application, provided an employment contract to the US Embassy employee (the "Embassy Employee) , and represented that Witness-1 understood that she would make $9.75 per hour working as a domestic helper in the US The Embassy Employee processed the Visa Application.

15. Based on my interview of the Embassy Employee, I know, in substance and in part, that the Embassy Employee would not have been authorized to process the Visa Application absent an employment contract that complied with the requirements of 9 FAM 41.22, including the commitment to pay the visa applicant at least the minimum or prevailing wage and the provision that normal working hours would be limited to 40 hours per week.

16. Based on my review of a US Department of State database, I know that on or about November 15, 2012, Witness-1 received an visa.

17. Based on my interviews of Witness-1, I know, in substance and in part, that shortly before departing to the airport in India, Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, called Witness~l to tell Witness-l to come to the Residence. Upon arriving at the Residence, Khobragade told Witness-1 that Witness~1 needed to sign another employment contract (the "Second Employment Contract"). Witness-l signed the Second Employment Contract.

18. I havereviewed the Second Employment Contract, which is an untitled document dated November 23, 2012 that appears to be an enlarged and electronically edited version of the First Employment Contract, which provides, in part:

a. The parties to the Second Employment Contract are identical as to those in the First Employment Contract: "Dr. Devyani Khobragade (Deputy Consul General - CGI-NY) (hereinafter referred to as the Employer) and Witness-1 (hereinafter referred to as the Employee)."

b. The scope of the Employee's duties is identical as to that set forth in the First Employment Contract: "The Employee will go to the US with the Employer as a domestic employee. The Employer agrees to employ the Employee at or in connection with the Employer's residence in the position(s) of housekeeper and babysitter."

c. With respect to wages, the Second Employment Contract provides: "The Employee will be paid an expected monthly salary of Rs. 25,000 per month with an additional Rs. 5,000 for overtime, i.e. work on Sunday, after hours and for parties, etc. The maximum salary per month including the overtime allowance will not exceed Rs. 30,000 per month."

19. The Second Employment Contract does not contain any provision about the normal number of working hours per week or month. The only statement concerning working hours in Second Employment Contract is "The Employee shall be provided a minimum of at least one full day off each week, which day (s) will normally be Sunday.

20. The Second Employment Contract does not contain any provision about time off from work, and is silent as to holidays, sick days, and vacation days.

21. The Second Employment Contract does not contain the representation present in the First Employment Contract that "The Employer agrees to abide by all Federal, state, and local laws in the US"

22. The second and final page of the Second Employment Contract bears the signatures of Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, Witness-l, two witnesses, including Witnesss2, and a notary public.

23. Based on my review of records maintained by the US Department of Homeland Security, I know that on or about November 24, 2012, Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, and Witness~l, passed through customs at a New York airport within two minutes of each other.

24. Based on my interviews of Witness-l, I know, in substance and in part, that Witness~l worked for Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, as a household employee in New York, New York from approximately November 2012 through approximately June 2013 . Notwithstanding the terms of the First Employment Contract, Witness-l worked far more than 40 hours per week, and Witness~l was paid less than $9.75 per hour by Khobragade. In fact, notwithstanding the terms of the oral agreement between Khobragade and Witness-l and the terms of the Second Employment Contract, Witness-l was paid less than 30,000 rupees, or $3.31 per hour.

Wherefore, the deponent prays that a warrant issue for the arrest of Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, and that the defendant be arrested and imprisoned, or bailed, as the case may be.

MARK J SMITH

Special Agent

United States Department of State Bureau of Diplomatic Security

Sworn before me on this __th day of December 2013

THE HONOURABLE DEBRA FREEMAN

UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

December 11, 2013
Roperia
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Roperia »

Few observations -

1. SD was in cahoots with PB during this whole episode. Their spokespersons have been sanctimonious in there statements and SD has shown no leniency whatsoever in dealing with this case. Throughout the period they have thrown the rulebook on our face in a case where SD effectively took the side of the prosecution.

2. WH didn't think the relationship is important enough for it to intervene.

3. MEA seemed to have found some of its long lost courage in dealing with US.

4. Indian Americans in US administration are worse than Americans when it comes to dealing with India.


India US relationship is US telling India what to do. Sometimes they try to convince us that this is what we want to do, while other times they just try to shove it down our throats...
chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

India should now publish a list of persons involved in this case and make then PNG. The list should include PB, MJS, NB, UZ, DEBRA FREEMAN, Members of Grand Jury and members of US embassy staff who facilitated the whole affair.

India should also ask for return of SR and family to face India Judiciary and get relief. There need not be any vindictiveness but legal system must be upheld as a matter of principle. And if she is found to be part of spy ring then only should she face consequences. Pending such extradition, India should keep extradition treaty and other collaborative efforts on Law enforcement such as posting of DEA agents etc should be stopped forthwith. All contacts should be initiated through Interpol which is the apt agency for that type of cooperation.

As regards DK personal choices, She has to decide and take further action. I think she has asked for dismissal of charges and that could be considered.

I certainly find role of his husband intriguing. Was he a silent and supportive husband? None of our concern. If DK wants to continue in IFS she should weigh in all aspects.

MEA should also find out the truth about Maid affair and if DK was , at any point at fault, she should be quitely taken to task and posted in inconsequential places. in Diplomatic career this is most dangerous thing to her career. But if she is not at fault then she should be give full confidence. I think she has come out with flying color through this ordeal.

SR had everything going except family in NYC and unfulfilled se$ual desires. She skilfully gamed the system and stupid americans , if she was not part of espionage, and got maximum out of them on their taxpayers money. So be it.

India has indeed come out on the top of situation and time to ensure full reciprocity continues for diplomutts. Also increase surveillance and collect as much info on all embassies and in particular US . Time to arrest one will be there in future. That should be made known to every US diplomutts that no infringement of laws would be overlooked. Ensure equal and full search procedure on reciprocal basis at the airports. Ban all exotic sounding designations which are incompatible with diplomatic activities. Keep watch on whome they employ as researchers or workers and their terms of employment etc and works that they do. Restrict their movements in and around the country to bare essentials.

Meanwhile, continue good relations and hope these measures would be understood by them in good spirit of law abiding nation and that these measures would not impact relations and economic and political cultural relations. There is need for hard bargaining but no need to cancel anything unless not needed or domestic components are available.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by KLNMurthy »

CRamS wrote:KLNMurthyJi,

Which is the Sibal article you are referring to? I must have missed it. Did you mean Kanwal Sibal? I like him and I mostly agree with his views.
Devyani Khobragade row exposes Indo-US inequalities
chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Quite sensible views of Sri Sibal.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Lisa »

SSridhar wrote:Some more explanation from US State Deptt - The Hindu
Ms. Psaki confirmed that a U.S. official accredited to Mission India would be leaving his post at the request of the Government of India, and “We deeply regret that the Indian Government felt it was necessary to expel one of our diplomatic personnel.

On a broader note she added that this has “clearly been a challenging time in the U.S.-India relationship,” and Washington hoped that “this will now come to closure and the Indians will now take significant steps[ with us to improve our relationship and return it to a more constructive place/b]”. {The onus is on the Indians, as usual}

On the subject of fighting human trafficking into the country the Spokesperson noted that the U.S. was “committed… to ensuring all domestic workers are paid for all hours worked… [and] all diplomatic and consular personnel are aware of and abiding by their obligations under U.S. law”.


I agree fully. Does this mean that in US Embassy and consulates in India all Indian staff are being paid a US pay rate as those locations are part of the US? If not is class action possible?
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