Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22 2015

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by RCase »

Anujan wrote:Apparently 23 people turned up
Only a small percentage of the Pakistanis are radical extremists as can be seen that only 23 people turned up to support anti army national causes.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Prem »

RajeshA wrote:
Falijee wrote:Vipul ji - Now that Badmash has declared Chinese Investment neither loan nor grant , it remains to be seen if Pakis fulfill their end of the bargain ( ie work ethic, provide security to Chini employees against Baloch attacks, keep pro Jihadis under control, surpress Pak, anti - Cheeni groups etc etc)It is neither a loan nor a grant. It is price of a whorah!
Price plus Tip for good job of Licking Chop-stick by Haramkhors beating the skills of Old Whore of La"whore. Chini are going to loose few thousands of their people in this dirty dancing with donkeys.
I think this is the beginning of the end of Pakiland. None of the choice they face now is good for them in long term.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by RCase »

Tuvaluan wrote:So what we need to do now is wait for:

(a) paki army to fall on its job and get a bunch of chinese engineers and such killed in Karachi
(b) get China to tell pakistan to get its house in order and kill of a bunch of armed jihadis in Karachi
(c) watch all the chinese massage parlours burn....
Do you want to cause unemployment for TV anchor aunties that got their panties in a twist over 'fahashi'?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Rahul M »

SSridhar wrote: I don't know about rumours. But, it was predicted here.
SS, havent followed the discussion, why would china do so ?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

Tuvaluan wrote:So what we need to do now is wait for:

(a) paki army to fall on its job and get a bunch of chinese engineers and such killed in Karachi
(b) get China to tell pakistan to get its house in order and kill of a bunch of armed jihadis in Karachi
(c) watch all the chinese massage parlours burn....
What is this? Amateur hour? Chinese come with their own security teams as inner ring. They have their own disposable soldiers. If there is anything chinese know, its sending people to doom in purges, korea, india, vietnam wars. Right on from the world war. So the odd IED mubaarak will only redouble the number of lemmings.

But the bigger problem with your argument is that it was never about actually doing ANYTHING. except for joining up the roads to gwadar and calling it done. They needed to one-up SA now. Who cares if anything actually gets done. Neither grant nor loan. Get it? The roads exist, even if as a dirt track. Rename them KKH friendship road, call it done.

The chinese want to claim south china sea. check.
Pipelines through burma. Check.
Route through bakistan. check.
Route from central asia. check.

Its a bigger game. What can the US do to china now? All that sea traffic is no longer a road block to anything. The carriers are empty threats. The chinese can happily moon them.

In chinas book, bakistan could slide into the sea tomorrow. They simply want the boot up Indias back, and a route to the sea. If it were not bakistan, it would be bangladesh, and/or nepal.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Tuvaluan »

Shreeman wrote: What is this? Amateur hour? Chinese come with their own security teams as inner ring. They have their own disposable soldiers.
You may want to recall Lal Masjid and China forcing the Paki army to take action, not to mention China calling off various projects when their engineers were killed by some random group or the other. If the Chinese are going to start taking casualties and still keep their workforce on the ground, that would be new behavior, not yet seen so far. We'll see if they do that...they may well do that.

I was just stating what I did based on past history of chinese-paki interaction of this kind.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Tuvaluan »

The chinese want to claim south china sea. check.
Pipelines through burma. Check.
Route through bakistan. check.
Route from central asia. check.
Ok, so what exactly is the utility of a route that cannot be secured and is a risk to be used for commerce? Who will be willing to underwrite the trade passing through a region filled with violent yahoos who have a history of looting anything of worth? Aircraft carriers are anyway sitting ducks for enemy aircraft during war time, and during peace time it is only usable against adversaries not willing to start a war. Just saying.
In chinas book, bakistan could slide into the sea tomorrow. They simply want the boot up Indias back, and a route to the sea. If it were not bakistan, it would be bangladesh, and/or nepal.
That I agree with. GoI is simply not shown the ability to build capacity at points of conflict to keep the chinese from pursuing this game of Go on a map.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by KLNMurthy »

CRamS wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
The takeaway from the report on the statement by Badmash is that Pakistan has realized that India is not interested in talking. That makes me happy.
I am with you too, but with the caveat that lets wait and watch. It bears no repetition that TSP's US-led 3.5 would like to stabilize TSP, and would like both India & TSP to be their munnas. So I am pretty sure moves are afoot behind the scenes to simultaneously work on both India & TSP to assuage each other's concerns. Meaning that TSP terror will be moderated with charm/pressure on India to make piss. We have been there, done that, and the result is the same. Hope ModiJi does not succumb to temporary lull in TSP's withholding of pigLeTs. There have go to be measurable bench marks. And wrt to US, clear evidence that there it has substantially moved away from equal equal.
Modi has a limited but measurable expectations with respect to Pakistan: there should be no paki attacks on India. It looks easy but pakistan has difficulty even with that.

If somehow pakistan manages to meet Modi's expectations, I fully expect Modi will resume talks and be open to business with Pakistan. He will also heap kindness on pakistan and pakis. But he won't solve cashmere. He will do all this because it is his stated policy. The usual suspects will then shout that all-powerful umreeka has forced Modi, because that's what their special skill is. I won't be happy but I will console myself that we have a PM who does exactly what he said he will do. The shouters will be happy because they get to shout.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

Tuvaluan wrote:
The chinese want to claim south china sea. check.
Pipelines through burma. Check.
Route through bakistan. check.
Route from central asia. check.
Ok, so what exactly is the utility of a route that cannot be secured and is a risk to be used for commerce? Who will be willing to underwrite the trade passing through a region filled with violent yahoos who have a history of looting anything of worth? Aircraft carriers are anyway sitting ducks for enemy aircraft during war time, and during peace time it is only usable against adversaries not willing to start a war. Just saying.
In chinas book, bakistan could slide into the sea tomorrow. They simply want the boot up Indias back, and a route to the sea. If it were not bakistan, it would be bangladesh, and/or nepal.
That I agree with. GoI is simply not shown the ability to build capacity at points of conflict to keep the chinese from pursuing this game of Go on a map.
as ghalib noted in his earth-e-shashter treatise: "mupht mil jaye to bura kya hai"? The bakis want to bend over, why not? The chinese have five spare minutes.

No aircraft carriers arent sitting ducks. They are instruments of fear. Demonstrated fear by beating up the weakest kid in the neighborhood. Losing trade or fuel will lead to regime difficulties in china. They cant lose US AND europe both right now. So its rail through asia, road through pakistan, plane through russia. Whatever, if needed, the flag has been planted. Then they are free to expand south with no regard to local interruptions. What are you going to do to stop them?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Tuvaluan »

No aircraft carriers arent sitting ducks. They are instruments of fear.
However, They are only instruments of fear if you do not have the airpower to take them down, or cruise missiles.
So its rail through asia, road through pakistan, plane through russia. Whatever, if needed, the flag has been planted. Then they are free to expand south with no regard to local interruptions. What are you going to do to stop them?
They are only as free to expand, as the pakis themselves will allow them. Even if the Chinese are going to be Pakistan's new renter, they are going to have to keep up payments for a lot of broken promises. So, no, they are exactly free to expand south as they please, unless the pakis and all their jihadi hordes (who may or may not be in control of the army) do not blow up stuff that they build. Unless these roads and whatnot can be sustained long term, I fail to see any utility in planting a flag and declaring victory.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

^^^ china doesnt have anything to bother the carriers.

China doesnt want to expand into pakistan. bakistanis are SDRE and worse deeply religious. It want to go south and east. Bakistan is one of the many wild wild west roads available in case the east is congested. For free, it also serves as a circus, blame receiver for all the muslim violence, boot up indias soft underbelly, tug of war with US, and more. All for free.

As far as I am concerned, its ghalib's earth-e-shaster well over chanakyaa. he can post all the pictures he likes in the disaster thread.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Tuvaluan »

China can go east quite easily from the ocean front, it is getting to Indian ocean that is its problem -- for ocean trade routes. It wants a low risk option that allows it to get to the Indian Ocean via client states. Myanmar and Bangladesh are two options. By antagonizing Vietnam and Philippines and Indonesia, its made its own path to the east quite difficult for itself, ghalib's earth-e-shaster and sun tzu not withstanding. If China thinks it can use its aircraft carrier to threaten vietnam and Indonesia into submission, it has another thing coming. But hey, paki rental rates are quite low, as long expectations are low, and if China wants low expectations, they should be happy with their tallest and deepest friend.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Tuvaluan »

So apparently Nawaz Sharif did India favor by accepting the invite to Modi swearing in ceremony -- not megalomaniac much, paki? The Indian media scum in Indian Express and Hindu repeat Nawaz's line but have forgotten that the Pakis have basically dropped the 26/11 case and closed it without resolution.
Sharif said he took an “exceptional decision” to accept Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s oath-taking ceremony but India did not respond to his peace overtures.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/#sthash.K54tAwpz.dpuf
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by sanjaykumar »

Salma Hayek has not responded to my marriage proposal either. (I think she's playing coy).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Vayutuvan »

Anujan wrote:Saudi Arabia's Rahul Gandhi, Mohammed bin Salman has been promoted to deputy crown prince. That joker is the "youngest defense minister of the world" (Shahid afridi of defence ministers) and is running the Yemen war.
40+ vs. 29
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by SSridhar »

Falijee wrote:Is Pakistan pivoting away from Saudi Arabia? By Bruce Reidel
But, Saudis have nobody else to turn to either.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

sanjaykumar wrote:Salma Hayek has not responded to my marriage proposal either. (I think she's playing coy).
Yours too? I am beginning to think I got the wrong address. She was a young lass then, and we have both gotten old waiting for the baraat. As will mian nawaz sharif, one hopes.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Hari Seldon »

Bakis will be Bakis only. pi$$kology in full flow. Nepal should've rejected aid from these beggars. Just like they rejected Taiwanese aid fearing PRC... sheesh.

>>lutyens harry ‏@harikane_ 1h1 hour ago
Pakistanis won't leave their religious pettiness at home , who will send beef food packets to an official "Hindu" nation Nepal .
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

Tuvaluan wrote:China can go east quite easily from the ocean front, it is getting to Indian ocean that is its problem -- for ocean trade routes. It wants a low risk option that allows it to get to the Indian Ocean via client states. Myanmar and Bangladesh are two options. By antagonizing Vietnam and Philippines and Indonesia, its made its own path to the east quite difficult for itself, ghalib's earth-e-shaster and sun tzu not withstanding. If China thinks it can use its aircraft carrier to threaten vietnam and Indonesia into submission, it has another thing coming. But hey, paki rental rates are quite low, as long expectations are low, and if China wants low expectations, they should be happy with their tallest and deepest friend.
Myanmar route is already functional. China would like afg+iran and bakistan as well. The chinese are not in the mould of one or two are enough lets make this last. They will go through russia, if they get an opportunity to get to antarctica.

It is simple earth-e-shashter. You want us to get into a war? Hehe, keep dreaming. Oh, you will fight one where we dont smell it? Here take some JF17.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

Hari Seldon wrote:Bakis will be Bakis only. pi$$kology in full flow. Nepal should've rejected aid from these beggars. Just like they rejected Taiwanese aid fearing PRC... sheesh.

>>lutyens harry ‏@harikane_ 1h1 hour ago
Pakistanis won't leave their religious pettiness at home , who will send beef food packets to an official "Hindu" nation Nepal .
Yes, but its 30% muslim now. Cant you think of the poor nepali muslims? They never get beef.

VHP will build the temples. But what about the third holiest shrine, the al-everest moske. Its not going to stop anytime soon. Who is repairing that? There will be a lot of push pull between the moskes/madrassas and the churches over the orphans, regardless of relijion.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Tuvaluan »

Myanmar route is already functional. China would like afg+iran and bakistan as well. The chinese are not in the mould of one or two are enough lets make this last. They will go through russia, if they get an opportunity to get to antarctica.
No doubt. Yangon is operational, and I wager that Chahbahar will be next for Iran-Afghanisthan-Xinjiang. Paki ports are not going to materialize is my only point, and pakis being pakis are not beyond shooting themselves in their own foot....that should be clear enough by now. That was my original comment re: China-pak interaction, things don't go well for the Pakis when the chinese make the pakis behave against their own best interests....and the more China has the paki nuts in a vice, the more likely that scenario becomes.
It is simple earth-e-shashter. You want us to get into a war? Hehe, keep dreaming. Oh, you will fight one where we dont smell it? Here take some JF17.
who said anything about fighting a war --- just saying that an aircraft carrier is not all the it is cut out to be except as a threat against weaker states but no use if there is war. that is all. They were used in the vietnam war, when the vietnamese had nothing more than poorly armed guerrillas. nowadays they are liable to have Brahmos-type missiles.
Last edited by Tuvaluan on 30 Apr 2015 06:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by SSridhar »

Rahul M wrote:
SSridhar wrote: I don't know about rumours. But, it was predicted here.
SS, havent followed the discussion, why would china do so ?
Rahul, China's determined goal has been to overtake the US and be the sole superpower. After the US announced its Pivot and began gathering some Asian countries around that concept, even if only informally, China has redoubled its efforts to blunt the Pivot. It realized that it has to increase its sphere of influence manifold. The Silk Road and the MSR, which were already in the works as bits and pieces, were unified and the supporting financial structure of AIIB was conceived and launched.

Pakistan is the pivot for blunting the pivot. China has chosen the right country for several reasons. Pakistan is equally an American client. Pakistan provides access to virgin Afghanistan. Gwadar and KKH provide access to PLAN and alternate routes for Iranian oil & gas to Kashgar. China has been trying to industrialize Kashgar hoping that economic improvements would stop Uyghur separatism. China knows that Pakistan is completely subservient to it and it has it by its unmentionables. No other country is willing to make investments in Pakistan and Pakistan is therefore willing to abide by the unscrupulous Chinese practices to attract investments.

Pakistan's thinking is that it cannot let India runaway economically because the game will be lost forever then. It feels it still has a chance and all that its needs is massive investments and growth as in the early 1960s. It can then challenge India more muscularly as it already has nukes. Besides, it may feel that visible and massive presence of China on this scale would itself be a deterrent to India to retaliate in case of more mischief by its Army and jihadi proxies.

China is using Pakistan as the guinea-pig to develop a template for the successful implementation of the rest of its Road & Belt programme. This has to succeed to inspire confidence in other countries. Pakistan is also the largest and most complicated country in the proposed Chinese Beltway. So, the lessons learnt from here would be useful to refine the Chinese strategy elsewhere. It cannot be allowed to fail. Therefore, the Chinese neither want major threats to its projects in the area, nor Pakistan be distracted by events elsewhere.

Pakistan's foreign policies will be dictated more by China from now on. It would therefore be interesting to see how they tackle the Pakistani Army which usually handles India, US, Afghanistan and possibly KSA.

If one looks at Pakistani history, it is a sequence of jumping from one bandwagon to another. The pre-Partition All India Muslim League hitched on to the British and it continued into the early 50s when Sir Olaf Caroe personally handed over Pakistan to the Americans. This alliance continued until the mid-60s when cracks began to get wider. Pakistan opportunistically hitched on to the Chinese at this time. The relationship with the desert kingdoms were quite fraught at this stage. In the early 70s, the Pakistanis also jumped into the Desert Bandwagon. In the meanwhile, the US-Pakistan relationship was fluctuating but Pakistan desperately needed it as China was not in any position to help it. The Bear trap solidified the relationship for a decade but it fell apart again after a decade. The 1990s were a tough period for Pakistan which was saved for them largely by the Desert Ummah brothers, especially KSA. Of course, the first decade of the new millennium revived the US bandwagon. Now, it is the Chinese all the way.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

SS,

Mostly right, except guinea-pig was burma. Pakistanis don't like pigs, even if they are from guinea. And there is no concept of implementation. Like KKH, even a dirt track will do. There just needs to be a firm accepted concept. Like Gwadar. Not a port, not a base, but something. Like Bakistan proper. Not in NATO, not out of NATO, but something.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by menon s »

“How would Pakistanis feel if we do the same with you (as Pakistani parliament’s resolution) in the time of crises.”
In an informal chat with The Express Tribune in Islamabad on Wednesday, the acting Saudi Ambassador Jassim Bin Mohammad Al-Khalidi asked “How would Pakistanis feel if we do the same with you (as Pakistani parliament’s resolution) in the time of crises.”
ouch... that hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sources revealed that Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif, who led a high-level delegation soon after the Parliamentary resolution to Riyadh, was confronted by Saudi authorities over Pakistan’s reluctance to join the alliance.

The Saudis told the Punjab chief minister that they were not expecting the government to take the issue to the Parliament since they needed ‘urgent’ help from Pakistan.
truly desert bedouin, brain, fattened on camel milk and lizards!!!
http://tribune.com.pk/story/878083/how- ... udi-envoy/
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by arun »

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s bombastic talk of becoming the “hub” for trade with Central Asia is likely to turn to dust if Afghan President Ashraf Ghani’s words indeed reflects the reality of Afghnaistan’s position.

Excerpt from Suhasini Haider’s interview of Ashraf Ghani where he says that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will only be permitted access to Tajikisatn if Afghanistan gets access to India:
One of the subjects both you and PM Modi mentioned was the possibility of India being included in, or be a beneficiary of the Afghanistan Pakistan Transit and Trade Agreement (APTTA). How is that realistic, given that Pakistan has opposed the trade from Afghanistan to India directly, i.e. to Attari since the agreement was signed in 2011?

Regional cooperation requires a legal free-flow of goods and people. We are not asking Pakistan for any exceptional treatment. We are asking Pakistan for “national treatment”. Pakistani trucks come all the way to Attari. Why should Afghan trucks stop at Wagah? It’s a major cost for that distance, to load, unload and re-load. It is an incredible imposition on the cost of business. Sovereign states deal with sovereign equality. If we are not given equal transit access, then we will not provide equal transit access to Central Asia.

Is that something you have taken up with the Pakistani leadership?

Yes. We are clear. In our talks with the Commerce Minister of Pakistan (Khurram Dastgir) we have made it clear that it needs to be reciprocal. Relations between countries, especially when it comes to business, if there were significant reasons, if we had not accorded national treatment to Pakistani trucks, then we could have understood.

The national treatment clause is in the APTTA. So what you are saying is that if Pakistan continues to deny Afghan trucks access to bring their wares all the way to India, Afghanistan will cut off their trucks access directly to the countries in Central Asia?

We don’t want to reach that level, but equality in all principles is a must. That is what I am saying.

Is there a timeline on these? Because similarly, the motor vehicles agreement will need access through Pakistan…

Not on the APTTA, but yes, we (India and Afghanistan) will sign the motor vehicles agreement within three months.
From the Hindu:

‘Our people are killed to show a spectacle’
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

Tuvaluan wrote: Paki ports are not going to materialize ...

who said anything about fighting a war --- just saying that an aircraft carrier is not all the it is cut out to be except as a threat against weaker states but no use if there is war. that is all. They were used in the vietnam war, when the vietnamese had nothing more than poorly armed guerrillas. nowadays they are liable to have Brahmos...
Gwadar is functional as it is going to be. Hong Kong it will not be. Tanker offloading into some pipe? Why not?

Lets not under estimate the carriers. If missiles have improved, so have the carriers and their defenders.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by menon s »

Does anybody remember the old Cold War geopolitical concept of the Northern Tier States? They consisted of three countries -- Turkey, Iran and Pakistan (sometimes Afghanistan) that lay along the southern border of the Soviet Union; they were perceived in the West as a potential bulwark against Soviet aggression southwards into the Middle East. Is it just possible that we are witnessing today the possible recrudescence of a "Northern Tier" bloc? But this time it would not be united against Russia at all. On the contrary these three states demonstrate warming geopolitical congeniality with many aspects of Russian, Chinese and "Eurasian" geopolitical views.
I think this article carries a lot of insight...................
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Prem »

SSridhar wrote:
Falijee wrote:Is Pakistan pivoting away from Saudi Arabia? By Bruce ReidelBut, Saudis have nobody else to turn to either.
They do , Both Saudi and Gulf can be good Munna of India .
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Agnimitra »

Jhujar wrote:
Falijee wrote:Is Pakistan pivoting away from Saudi Arabia? By Bruce ReidelBut, Saudis have nobody else to turn to either.
They do , Both Saudi and Gulf can be good Munna of India .
+786
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by arun »

X Posted from the STFUP thread:
g.sarkar wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/nepa ... 32868.html

After experiencing major devastation and loss of lives in the April 25 earthquake, Nepal is left with an unsavoury taste in the mouth when it received packets of 'beef masala' as part of the relief package from Pakistan.

Since the majority-Hindu country treats cows as sacred and there is a blanket ban on slaughtering the animal, the development has the potential of triggering diplomatic acrimony between the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) member countries.

Indian doctors at Kathmandu's Bir Hospital told Mail Today that packets of 'beef masala' were sent by Pakistan on Tuesday as part of relief aid to the temblor survivors. These doctors - drawn from Ram Manohar Lohia (RML) Hospital, Safdarjung Hospital and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS) - are members of a 34-member medical team sent to Nepal for treating the survivors.

"When we reached the airport to collect the food items from Pakistan, we found packets of ready-to-eat meals, including packets of 'beef masala'. There were other food items too," Dr Balwinder Singh told Mail Today.

Perplexed, the doctors chose to have food from a hotel instead. "We did not touch the Pakistani aid," Dr Singh said......"

Gautam

A shameful instance of the breathtaking Mohammadden religion fuelled disregard for the religious sensibilities of Non-Mohammadden “Dhimmi’s”.

In the middle of a humanitarian disaster the Islamic Republic of Pakistan shows contempt for Non-Mohammadden Dhimmi’s by using aid to wound religious sensibilities which in the instant case is seeking to feed beef to Hindu’s in Nepal!
Shreeman
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

Times of India ‏@timesofindia 29m29 minutes ago

Nawaz Sharif calls PM Modi, appreciates India's rescue efforts in Nepal http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... mesofindia
Dont be silly. The only beef they have is with India.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Gagan »

The pakistanis must not be happy with the way Nepal has been handing over their asse(t)s over to India, or the way in which Indian Intel agencies act with impunity against Pakistani asse(t)s there.

I wonder if Nepal will return the favour by sending polk flied lice, the next time Pakistan has floods / earthquake / soosai vaccum bulb / fauji coo etc.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by RajeshA »

Jhujar wrote:
Falijee wrote:Is Pakistan pivoting away from Saudi Arabia? By Bruce ReidelBut, Saudis have nobody else to turn to either.
They do , Both Saudi and Gulf can be good Munna of India .
Jhujar ji,

absolutely. But we need Afghanistan to balance the equation.

The way to go about it is to have Afghanistan providing the fig leaf to Saudi Arabia, that they are receiving security help only from dyed in the wool, greener than the green Momeens, even as the whole military framework in which the Afghans provide security to Saudi Arabia is Made in India, fully integrated with the Indian military. India (and for the time being USA) can however provide air, naval and nuclear security to the Gulf Sheikhs.

Gulf countries are weak and willing to spend heavily to buy security from others. If Iranians get control over the Oil or Hejaz, they wouldn't be asking Indians for security. Iranians have their own imperial plans. Gulf Arabs don't, nor do they have the capacity nor the geographical reach.

Afghans and Saudi-controlled Taliban on the one side and India on the other can crack Pakistani Army like a walnut, and end Chinese strategic control over our Western boundary.

Everybody gets what one wants:
Gulf countries get
1) a secure Gulf, ostensibly supported by Sunni Afghans
2) more Sunnized Pakistani people, albeit without an Army, which can contain Iranian strategic depth in the East.

Afghanistan gets
1) More money from Gulf for providing security
2) Pakistan out of Pakhtunkhwa
3) End of Pakistani terrorism in Afghanistan

India gets
1) End of Pakistan
2) Free Access to Central Asia
3) China without naval bases in Indian Ocean or at the mouth of the Gulf
4) Major say in Islamization of Indian population
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by Shreeman »

^^ you guys smoke some seriously hullucinating stuff.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by RajeshA »

Shreeman wrote:^^ you guys smoke some seriously hullucinating stuff.
Yes, but the challenge is to make GoI, Saudis and Afghans smoke the same thing too! Really good stuff. Everybody should try it!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by SSridhar »

Shreeman wrote:Mostly right, except guinea-pig was burma.
Shreeman, yes, you are right about Burma, but, that was 'bits & pieces' before the Road& Belt was formally announced. It is for that reason I assume Pakistan as the first experiment. Again, the Burma experiment is a failure except for the port & pipeline projects. The Myitsone dam and the copper mining project faced considerable local flak that the former has been shelved and the latter is in a limbo. This is in spite of the huge Chinese presence in Burma (unlike in Pakistan) and extraordinary people-to-people contact between the Han and the Myanmarese. All the ethnicities of Myanmar like Kachin, Shan et al live in Yunnan as well. But, in Pakistan, there is only government-to-government contact. One does not know if China learnt any lesson from there to consider Burma as a Guinea-pig.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by pankajs »

Relying on a road that gets blocked for 5 years (IIRC) by a landslide to solve all connectivity/choke point issues for China and economic/investment issues for bakistan is just building air castles.

The road runs through a terrain where there are no diversions possible to get past the landslide is an icing on the air castle. You can't go off the road on to a dirt road not even a dirt track or leave a damaged bridge and take a culvert.

There are other issues for China as far as moving away from sea based route is concerned. Most of their economic centers are along their their coast. That makes it easier/cheaper/faster to get to/from market via sea routes right off the bat rather than transport raw materials/finished foods cross country from east coast to west coast and then over KKH to Gwadar and then on to ships.

Then there is the question of funneling its humungous trade traffic over a single 16 lane expressway (The project is only 8 laning of KKH but out of compassion I have doubled its capacity).

Then there is the question of the ASEAN countries that account for a big chunk of the 2 way trade having to go through Malacca to reach Gwadar and then over land to the east coast of China.

What a nice plan! I love it absolutely!
Last edited by pankajs on 30 Apr 2015 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by RajeshA »

pankajs wrote:Relying on a road that gets blocked for 5 years (IIRC) by a landslide to solve all connectivity/choke point issues for China and economic/investment issues for bakistan is just building air castles.

The road runs through a terrain where there are no diversions possible to get past the landslide is an icing on the air castle. No dirt road not even a dirt track or a culvert.
I think we may miss out the point of KKH. KKH is simply a psychological tool to underline that China and Pakistan are neighbors, are joined with roads, and thus have direct connectivity and shared strategic interests. KKH is a road telling India, that they have drawn a line in the mountains and India should respect it!

KKH isn't going to be some lifeline for either China or Pakistan. Yes it may aid some little trade on the borders. It may allow China to use the airspace over the road for transportation of some military or important stuff. But basically KKH is simply a line telling India not to violate it because it binds two countries.

In fact, China may in fact be interested only in intermittent use of KKH, not to allow too many Jihadis to get curious on what happens on Chinese side.

China is interested more in naval access to Pakistan and bases there, thus allowing China to increase its global footprint by leaps.

Too much focus on the economic viability and operations of KKH may make us miss the forest for the trees.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by pankajs »

KKH is important to the Chinese for the following reasons

1. Develop Xinjian and Tibet by importing raw materials from AfPak and beyond (via. Gwadar) and a ready market in AfPak.
2. Further integration of Bak with China and consolidating its hold on Bakistan.
3. Gwadar for hosting PLA Navy assets.
4. Cheap and easy route for Mil trade between the two.
5. Psychologicaly pressuring India by making it feel surrounded.

This is a strategic project is the real sense of the word and we should certainly take note and plan.

But the benefits being touted are certainly overblown. First is the issue of putting money where the mouth is for China. There record is the past wrt Bakis is not very good (ÎIRC, only 6% of past commitments have turned into investments). If the corridors get built it will initially boost the Bak economy (Money spent during building) but in the long run it will become a dumping ground for all goods produced in Xinjiang with Baki raw material there by killing all industry except Agriculture. And the kinds of return that jihadi suggests will suck the remaining Bakis economy dry.
Last edited by pankajs on 30 Apr 2015 14:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22

Post by SSridhar »

The biggest plan by China is to bring Pakistan completely under its control through the CPEC.
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