The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 27 Oct 2015 08:52

I am surprised Javelins haven't showed up. About a 2,000 meter effective range and can also engage helicopters.

About 40,000 have been made so far.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 09:05

you want them or manpads to be used in european capitals against high value targets ? its america's call...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 09:10

syrian army is lacking in the one thing that makes a diff in low tech conflict among the rubble - manpower.

iranian advisers or russia airforce cannot alter that reality.

the only way to tilt the scales if if iran and russia send 100s of 105-122mm artillery pieces, with cheap HE impact ammo and some trained crews to help train up a mass of syrian artillery units and depute some 155mm SP MSTA units to fire at long range, operated by the OEM crew. MLRS will be too expensive and lacks rapid reload unless a very strong logistical tail is built up.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 27 Oct 2015 10:14

For someone so reliant on the armed forces to keep an iron grip on his country, Assad seems to have done a piss poor job of having a well oiled, professional army at his disposal.

Wonder, if it were the threat of coups that dictated his policies.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Oct 2015 10:25

Obama weighs moving U.S. troops closer to front lines in Syria, Iraq - WaPo Oct 26, 2015

below is the most condensed summary of the verbiage in the WaPo farticle:

“He recognized that we’ve got to do something different,” the senior defense official said.

Something different and crazy it should have been. So, Win elections promising exit from Iraq and Afghanistan and when you are about to end your second term, reneg on both.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Oct 2015 10:28

Singha wrote:you want them or manpads to be used in european capitals against high value targets ? its america's call...

Easier in capitals of allies like Saudi Arabia, etc... Interesting thought from TSJ though. If this is indicative of what people in the US really think, decision making circles I mean... the opportunities for people on the outside to benefit are immense. You're right though, the Europeans will be the biggest losers. But of course, that means the Americans will have to stay put there. The US is really playing the imperial game, pretty hamfistedly. But that comes with the possession of overwhelming power, usually. As I've been saying for some time, fun times ahead.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 27 Oct 2015 10:29

Satya_anveshi wrote:Something different and crazy it should have been. So, Win elections promising exit from Iraq and Afghanistan and when you are about to end your second term, reneg on both.

Obama is doing what Bush did to him after he remitted the office- an ever increasing quagmire in Middle-east and Afghanistan, a belligerent Pakistan and a sluggish economy.

He's leaving scores of IEDs for the next occupant of the Oval office.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 27 Oct 2015 11:10

Singha wrote:you want them or manpads to be used in european capitals against high value targets ? its america's call...

Newsflash: manpads are already loose and readily available especially those made by the Chinese and Russians. Anybody can buy them and distribute them. If you are implying that Russia could distribute them in Europe, then that is a game that can be played on in Russia also. However, I don't think they really want to do that. We in the US remember that they supplied SAM missiles to North Vietnam. The Russians taught us well.

Best for Russia in the long run to help sponsor a settlement with Assad and Free Syrian Army.

The US will continue to prosecute ISIL elsewhere with the Kurds as we see fit.

Putin is also welcome to bomb Assad's ISIL controlled oil fields, ecological disaster or no ecological disaster as far as I am concerned. But Putin is unlikely to do it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 11:14

a part of the syrian army probably deserted and some joined the FSA. from these two entities further desertions to join the refugees.

syria is looking depopulated if large towns are unoccupied ruins. lakhs of people simply cannot camp in the countryside.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 11:19

Javelin being F&F and much more compact and deadly than TOW could be used in EU capitals to go after kafir targets both live and non-live. TOW is a cumbersome old dog and needs a heavy tripod ... not so useful for terrorist networks.

same goes for nice compact latest gen manpads ... which is probably why amrika has not given them (yet) to rebels. else they could easily take shots at the low flying Hinds. the KSA and turks do not seem keen on that either...they too need to ensure the security of their civil aviation - turkish airlines is a giant and the KSA rulers have a fleet of 747 atleast.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Oct 2015 11:20

This has been the grand strategy of the US and Saudis ,et al. Destroy Syria's infrastructure,get the population on the move away from Damascus,and leave the field open for ISIS,etc. The Syrian regime will be starved of manpower and will gradually cave in. Syria would then have been carved up between the Turks,and Saudis,or their proxies That was the idea until the Russians stepped in,going after anti-Syrian forces in earnest.The Iranians lead from the front. They are committed soldiers,remember the Iran-Iraq war where millions died.

Here's a viewpoint.Indep. Uk,on one of the key individuals responsible for the acr of crisis in the Meast. Tony B.Liar.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ton ... 09466.html

Tony Blair’s acceptance that Iraq war facilitated rise of Isis is a first step to acknowledging the conflict was a disaster

The Chilcot report should help us understand where we go from here; but events are moving in utterly unpredictable ways
Editorial

Tony Blair’s admission that there are “elements of truth” in the idea that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 assisted the rise of Isis is a step forward, and not just for the former prime minister. For it represents progress in coming to some sort of understanding about that ill-starred adventure and its longer-term consequences.

Welcome as they are, though, his comments – and all previous memoirs, histories, inquiries, apologies and semi-apologies – are no substitute for a thorough investigation into the decision to go to a war that had such grievous consequences. The cruel, murderous, disastrous results of the illegal Anglo-American invasion of Iraq are still being felt across the Middle East and, indeed, the world.

Tony Blair apologises for 'bad intelligence' ahead of Iraq War

A great arc of permanent violence has opened up from Nigeria to Somalia to Afghanistan and, through terrorism, far beyond. It would be wrong to label this a third world war, but, in its global reach and irreconcilable enemies, its destruction of nations and cities, and its generation of mass movements of peoples, it certainly qualifies as a war. That we can trace the plight of Syrian and Iraqi refugees back to those conversations between Mr Blair and President George Bush at Camp David is now acknowledged by at least one of those men.

We should long ago have had the benefit of a comprehensive uncovering of the truth in the Chilcot report. We are told a timetable for publication will be set out next week, and there always has to be some question about whether Mr Blair’s latest revelations are related to that. He would not be the skilful politician we know him to be if he didn’t want to get his spin on the matter aired first.

Perhaps that is unduly conspiratorial – but Mr Blair did take the opportunity to repeat his old line about not apologising for the removal of Saddam Hussein. The riposte to that must be that toppling a dictator could not, by itself, justify an illegal war based on overstated intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. Twelve years on, it is clear that the late Robin Cook was right: had Saddam continued to be “caged” by no-fly zones and sanctions, we might not have seen the loss of millions of lives.

Mr Blair may be right, however, that the Arab Spring might have brought upheaval to the region anyway – but when Iraq was so destabilised it is impossible for him to deny that the Spring might have become a brighter political season had the 2003 invasion not occurred. The rise of Isis was not an inevitability; it was the consequence of an ill-conceived and unwinnable “war on terror”. This also allowed the Taliban to make a comeback in Afghanistan, a further calamity.

Families of dead soldiers hit out at Blair’s Iraq War 'apology'
Will history forgive Blair for his decision to go to war?
Blair Iraq-Isis admission is first step to accepting war was disaster
Blair apology for Iraq the 'start of a spin operation before Chilcot'

This modern history matters because it is part of achieving a sort of justice for those civilians and service people who lost their lives and those whose loved ones were injured in these conflicts. We need to understand, too, how we got into this mess so we might better get the world out of it.

Even so, whatever Mr Blair says now will not, in the short run, save a single refugee child from drowning in the Mediterranean or freezing in a mountain camp in Lebanon or the Balkans. It will not prevent a single woman being raped by militants from Isis, al-Shabaab or Boko Haram, nor the attempted genocide of minorities and destruction of human rights and cultural heritage. We shouldn’t let the events of 2003 distract us from action now.

The Chilcot report should help us to understand where we go from here; but events are moving in utterly unpredictable ways. What we in the West need are the ideas, the policies and the materials – financial, intelligence, political, diplomatic, religious, military – and, above all, the willpower to decide what to do next and see it through. In 2003, at least to Mr Bush and Mr Blair, the problems seemed clear-cut, the course of action compelling and the armed forces to effect it readily available; if only things were so obvious today

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 27 Oct 2015 11:30

Singha wrote:Javelin being F&F and much more compact and deadly than TOW could be used in EU capitals to go after kafir targets both live and non-live. TOW is a cumbersome old dog and needs a heavy tripod ... not so useful for terrorist networks.

same goes for nice compact latest gen manpads ... which is probably why amrika has not given them (yet) to rebels. else they could easily take shots at the low flying Hinds. the KSA and turks do not seem keen on that either...they too need to ensure the security of their civil aviation - turkish airlines is a giant and the KSA rulers have a fleet of 747 atleast.

this is going to be a serious problem in the future regardless of what happens in the middle east. weapons miniaturization with digital processing is going to become a serious problem on or off the battlefield. the US is going to get better and better at conceptualizing, designing and manufacturing them. And China and Russia are never far behind. And everybody wants to arm their favorite crew in any dispute.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 27 Oct 2015 11:34

For someone so reliant on the armed forces to keep an iron grip on his country, Assad seems to have done a piss poor job of having a well oiled, professional army at his disposal.
Wonder, if it were the threat of coups that dictated his policies.

Thats an unfair assessment. Assad`s father decided to involve others in his government including the sunni majority or atleast the bourgousie among them hoping that they will get the sunnis to back the regime. When Syria erupted, the sunni officers and men sided with ISIS/Nusra leaving only the Shia alawites and minorities to defend the regime.
The Vijayanagar empire had Gilani brothers in its army commanding troops who switched sides at a key point in the battle of Talikota. Rememb.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 11:41

there was some talk that latest Stingers have a geography specific GPS module that will render it inert outside of approved region...its sat receiver will query the current location before empowered it as a weapon.

could be hacked or removed by state level actors but might contain the threat from the average ISIS bandit.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 27 Oct 2015 11:45

Bhurishrava wrote:Thats an unfair assessment. Assad`s father decided to involve others in his government including the sunni majority or atleast the bourgousie among them hoping that they will get the sunnis to back the regime. When Syria erupted, the sunni officers and men sided with ISIS/Nusra leaving only the Shia alawites and minorities to defend the regime.
The Vijayanagar empire had Gilani brothers in its army commanding troops who switched sides at a key point in the battle of Talikota. Rememb.

That's the point. Vijayanagar empire did not foresee the treacherous switch, since they did not think that for Gilani Brothers, religious affinity would override their professional loyalties.

Assad would/should HAVE known, having being raised in the same mileu and having witnessed what happened to the Iraqi armed forces after Saddam was toppled.

The father-son duo probably thought that keeping the attention focussed on Israel would ensure their armed forces unity.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 27 Oct 2015 11:50

Isnt it always difficult to foresee treachery. It wouldnt exist otherwise.

BTW, John Kerry also believes that ISIS sells its oil via Turkey or Lebanon.
http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa_us- ... 59138.html

This Kerry fellow is making life difficult for the american propagandists.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 27 Oct 2015 11:57

And here is the frank admission by United states of America that it or its allies are helping or will help ISIS, if Assad looks like winning. Its a zero sum game. ISIS is not a terrorist entity but part of geopolitical game.

One thing is certain: the vast majority of States represented around this table know that the ISIL forces and ISIL itself cannot be defeated as long as Bashar Al-Assad remains president of Syria. It cannot happen by definition of the lines of this battle. It cannot happen because of who has lined up with whom and because of the nature of these protagonists.

John Kerry in United Nations Security Council.

So if Russia, Syria, Iran look like winning then Qatar, Saudi, turkey and US will ensure that ISIS is not defeated.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 11:59

another example of treachery I read about yesterday:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bosworth_Field

the skeleton of king richard was found last year.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/ ... 34x616.jpg

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 12:00

syria looks set to become a country sized stalingrad.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Oct 2015 14:05

Aleppo already is and from this report the fighting there is only going to intensify.Actually,it is must-win objective of the triumvirate of Syria (Assad),Russia and Iran. Unless the alliance can regain control of major cities and territory,the Syrian population will continue to flee anywhere that they can,and what is a nation without its people? That fact seems to have been clearly understood by the triumvirate.

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/319736-battl ... ia-russia/

Battle of Aleppo is a must-win for Russia
Pepe Escobar
Published time: 26 Oct, 2015

Once again, whatever hangs in the future for Syria on both the political and military fronts depends on the new Battle of Aleppo. The city and its outskirts, with the influx of internal refugees, may be harboring up to three million people by now.

It’s always about Aleppo.

Here’s what’s going on, essentially, on the ground. West Aleppo is controlled by Damascus, via the Syrian Arab Army (SAA).

Some of the northern parts are controlled by the Kurds from the PYD – which are way more engaged in fighting ISIS/ISIL/Daesh than Damascus. The PYD also happens to be considered an objective ally by the Obama administration and the Pentagon, much to the disgust of Turkey’s ‘Sultan’ Erdogan.

READ MORE: RT crew comes under mortar fire near Damascus

East Aleppo is the key. It is controlled by the so-called Army of Conquest, which includes Jabhat al-Nusra, a.k.a. Al-Qaeda in Syria, and the Salafi outfit Ahrar al-Sham. Other eastern parts are controlled by the “remnants” (copyright Donald Rumsfeld) of the Free Syrian Army (FSA), who refused to collaborate with the Army of Conquest.

Across the Beltway, all of the above are somewhat considered “moderate rebels.”

The most important recent development in the Aleppo battlefield is that the SAA – with key Russian help – has killed Jabhat al-Nusra leader Abu Suleiman al-Masri, a.k.a. Mahmud Maghwari, an Egyptian who’s been on Cairo’s kill list for ages.

Additionally, several hundred Iraqi Shi’ite fighters, under the supervision of superstar Iranian Quds Force commander Qasem Soleimani, have been transferred from Latakia to Aleppo.
And a roughly 3,000-strong, battle-hardened, armored Hezbollah brigade is also coming.

What is shaping up is a kind of southern offensive. These forces will all be converging not only towards Aleppo but, in a second stage, will have to clear the terrain all the way to the Turkish-Syrian border, which is now a de facto Russian-controlled no-fly zone.

The supreme target is to cut off the supply lines for every Salafi or Salafi-jihadi player – from “moderate rebels” to ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. That’s the meaning of Moscow’s insistence on the fight against all brands of terror, with no distinction. It does not matter that ISIS/ISIL/Daesh is not the main player in and around Aleppo.

For all practical purposes the whole Syria campaign is now under Russian operational, tactical and strategic management – of course with key Iranian strategic input.

The Russia-Syria-Iran-Iraq-Hezbollah coalition in Syria – also linked with the “4+1” intel center in Baghdad – stands a great chance of winning the next Battle of Aleppo if they fulfill three conditions.

1) Russian air cover coordinating with on the ground intel for all operations (that’s a given); 2) Popular support (that’s also a given; the Sunni urban population in Aleppo, mostly businessmen, support Damascus); 3) Experienced ground troops numbering at least 15,000 (on the way, considering the input from Iraq and Hezbollah).

In the dark

Predictably, there’s another coalition which is not exactly pleased with the way the battlefield is shaping up.

Aleppo’s main power station, 25 kilometers east of the city, for the moment is controlled by ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. Demented as it may seem – still, the whole Syria tragedy is demented - there is an informal agreement between Damascus and the fake “Caliphate”; the goons get 60 percent of the electricity, and the government gets 40 percent. After all, everyone, even beheaders, soft or otherwise, needs energy.

So how did the ‘Coalition of Dodgy Opportunists’ – which includes Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar alongside the US - help in the fight against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh? Well, they bombed the Aleppo power plant a little over a week ago. This means bombing Syria’s civilian infrastructure – a blatantly 2003 shock and awe-style crime - whose victims are mostly the “Syrian people” so cherished by ‘Exceptionalistan’.

What happens in the battlefield in and around Aleppo in the next few weeks will be essential to define the diplomatic front. As it stands, Bashar al-Assad’s got the message from Moscow. He’s ready to discuss amendments to the Constitution and is prepared to hold parliamentary and presidential elections. But first the “4+1” need a major fact on the battlefield.

Even US Secretary of State John Kerry, after he talked to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, has changed his tune; any political solution implies direct involvement from Damascus as well as the “patriotic opposition.”

FSA “patriots” though still haven’t got the message. Lavrov explicitly committed Moscow to help them – even after they had been weaponized via Turkey and Jordan to fight Damascus - as long as they would be fighting ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. Predictably, those FSA “moderate rebels/patriots” spurned Lavrov’s offer.

Other diplomatic absurdity is the absence of Iran at the negotiating table – because of House of Saud acute paranoia. Iranian generals and advisers are a key component of ground operations, analyzing the ground intel, and the whole strategic framework in Syria.

Instead, Washington and Riyadh still insist on increasing support for those invisible “moderate rebels” – after Kerry met with King Salman in Riyadh. The State Department, for once addicted to suspense, did not specify what “support” means. It goes without saying it means more CIA training and more TOW anti-tank missiles, which will hardly be directed against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh.

The diplomatic ballet is bound to continue later this week. Just in time as the crucial Battle of Aleppo picks up.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Oct 2015 14:34

a few interesting documentaries recently on television - one was tracking british volunteers who are fighting with the peshmerga and another made by a former special forces solider on behalf of a news channel. both highlight one thing - the fighting on both sides is being done by small groups of people without a lot of training and with mostly light weapons. engagements are usually below platoon level and there is poor coordination and communications but a fair amount of grit and determination. the kurds usually seem to be able to call in air strikes when faced with a big problem, however for the most part they have no heavy weapons and certainly neither side knows how to deploy significant military force effectively. it is a guerrilla war on both sides with limited cover and supplies.

re syrian army - the former syrian army has all but melted down. many senior officers have been killed - including an event some time back where ISIS overran a command HQ and then beheaded 50-70 officers en masse. the sunnis defected and the others have regrouped but losses have been heavy and territory has been lost. i believe the alawite core is still more or less functional, but the concept of syria as it once was is now over.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 14:37

https://www.rt.com/news/319797-syria-de ... s-assange/

The flooding of Europe by countless waves of refugees may be the result of the “strategic depopulation” of Syria carried out by opponents of the country’s government, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has suggested.
Trends
EU refugee & migrant influx, Syria unrest
Transparency organization WikiLeaks has looked through its diplomatic cables and unearthed “an interesting speculation about the refugee movement,” Assange said in an interview with Geek news site, ThePressProject.

“So, the speculation was this: Occasionally opponents of a country would engage in strategic depopulation, which is to decrease the fighting capacity of a government,” he explained.

The whistleblower pointed out that “it’s predominantly the middle class that is fleeing” Syria on account of having “language skills, money, some connections.” Engineers, managers and civil servants are “precisely, the classes that ...[are] needed to keep the government functioning,” he said.

Syrian people are encouraged to flee their country “by Germany saying they’ll accept many-many refugees, and by Turkey taking nearly three million refugees, thus significantly weakening the Syrian government,” Assange stressed.

Syria isn’t the only case of migration being used as a weapon in recent history; during the Iraq War, Sweden told the US that “the acceptance of Iraqi refugees was part of its contribution,” according to cables.
The intercepted documents, already published by WikiLeaks, revealed that the US had been plotting to overthrow the Syrian government since around 2006, Assange stressed.

“It was trying to make the Syrian government ‘paranoid’ trying to get it to ‘overreact’ by instilling that fear and paranoia; trying to make it worried about coups; trying to stir up sectarian tensions between Sunnis and Shias … trying to stop foreign investment in Syria and secretly funding a variety of NGOs in Syria also to make trouble, using the Saudis and Egypt to help push that along,” he said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Oct 2015 15:38

https://www.rt.com/news/319727-saudi-pr ... ug-arrest/

saudi prince arrested in beirut for 2 tons of drugs CAPTAGON on his private plane.

--
said to be used by middle east fighters to keep going https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenethylline

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Oct 2015 16:44

you want them or manpads to be used in european capitals against high value targets ? its america's call...

What makes you think that threat does not exist today?

The Indian PM's plane has features to mitigate this threat?

An air craft that spends most of it's time in Indian air space?

Universal ........... in BR fashion, onlee.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Oct 2015 17:04

Manpads to Terrorist in Syria is as much as threat to Russian Aircraft as it is to Coalition one as Lavrov pointed out.

Thats like saying if your good terrorist can shoot our aircraft then our bad ones can also shoot yours.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 27 Oct 2015 17:22

A dozen people were killed in the incident, which was caught on video by the Syrian Civil Defense, a humanitarian aid group.
The Syrian-American Medical Society, which runs the hospital, says the strikes were launched by Russian warplanes.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/23/middl ... ck-russia/

This is what came first regarding Russian bombing of hospitals.
Now Syrian Civil Defense claims to be non-partisan humanitarian blah blah...

Here is an article by its chief.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

And a line from the article.

Only the international community can stop the (barrel) bombs — with a no-fly zone, if necessary.

Syrian Civil Defense has also accused Assad regime of using napalm, chlorine etc in the past. More on this humanitarian group. http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/09/01/w ... -in-syria/

Now about the Syrian-American Medical Society

SAMS has called on Russia to stop targetting hospitals.

This is what russians have to say -
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151 ... syria.html

"We will carefully monitor and analyze such media hoaxes. First of all, as for the Syrian American Medical Society, this organization registered in the US state of Illinois has something to do with medicine, as well as doctors, no more than ISIL is tied to the international scout movement," Igor Konashenkov said.

With little research one finds out that all the propaganda groups are related.

The list is growing- now we also have `physicans for human rights`. Whats next?!

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 27 Oct 2015 19:27

^^^ Hmmm as suspected. US sees world reaction to their bombing hospital in Afghanistan. Promptly, Russians are accused of the same.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Oct 2015 20:33

How about

Terroristes Sans Frontieres?

As for the US/NATO politicians/diplogoons going around arranging the arms deals to the TSF,

Derrieres Sans Frontieres?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Oct 2015 22:33

The Russia will face many such allegation , I even saw a video of some Medical Cheif of some humanatarian group in interview to CNN to stop aerial bombing during Allepo battle , He was claming the Russian were bombing hospital and he was crying asking to stop.

I am not sure how much truth is there in it but the Russia just needs to be thick skinned and brazen it out and focus on their bombing , being shamless and ruthless is a virtue when you deal with such situations.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 27 Oct 2015 22:34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwQVv4gsco8

Bashar Al Assad interview with Charlie Rose - oldish (March 2015) but not sure if it was posted here. Well worth watching.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 27 Oct 2015 22:40

Philip wrote:It's War. The US and its Soothi ally,the despotic Saudi regime,patron of ISIS and Islamic wahaabi fundamentalism worldwide,have entered into a satanic pact to get rid of Assad,in reality,to wage a proxy war against Russia.All fig leaves have been taken off.It is now a fight to the finish with devastating consequences for the region and greater global good.

US and Saudis vow to step up war on Assad in defiance of Russia
Two countries agreed to increase support to Syria's moderate opposition while seeking a political resolution of the four-year conflict
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ussia.html
<SNIP>

American and Saudi joint support for rebels, including Islamists, in Afghanistan three decades ago forced Russian troops out and contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
<SNIP>
The US and Saudis hope that supplies of TOW and MANPADS will stem the tide in favour of ISIS,as the mercenary "moderate Syrians",will actually be coordinating their actions against the Syrian regime along with ISIS.This is only going to widen the conflict with a greater Iranian involvement.

Should be part and parcel of Secularism#101 with Saudis now out in open for color revolutions for democracy, considering that Saudis never had democracy to begin with!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Oct 2015 23:11

Read about Syrian Express ( Use Translator )

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1546455.html

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Oct 2015 23:20

Turkey hits PYD twice for crossing Euphrates: PM - Oct 27, 2015

The Turkish army has hit the Democratic Union Party (PYD) in northern Syria twice for violating the red line Turkey had imposed on the western part of the Euphrates River, the Turkish prime minister has said.

“We have said ‘The PYD will not pass to the west of the Euphrates. We’ll hit them if they do.’ And we did hit them twice. A Syrian helicopter was downed last year. An unmanned aerial vehicle was hit as well. It’s not possible to do anything in Syria despite Turkey,” Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu told private broadcaster A Haber late Oct 26.

Turkey considers the PYD an offshoot of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) and therefore as a terrorist organization, unlike the United States and the European Union which see them as a political organization that can cooperate with the anti-ISIL (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) coalition. Turkey had declared the PYD’s attempt to cross the river and link its cantons in northern Syria was a red line.

Davutoğlu recalled the PYD and the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had agreed to conspire against Turkey in a meeting on May 28, which was also an indication the PKK decided to cease the Kurdish solution process.

“They should better know this: Afterwards, those in this region who will be on Turkey’s side will win while those who are against Turkey will lose. Everyone should make [their] own calculations accordingly,” he stressed.

“Turkey has not laid all of its cards on the table yet. The picture will be different when it does so. Everyone should watch its steps,” he added.

Davutoğlu said Turkey hit 458 different PKK positions in three days while clearing the Turkish border from ISIL shelters, also in three days, saying, “Those who start such a war against Turkey will bear the consequences.”

{We really need a gas smiley. Will come in handy on Paki, US, and Sunni threads}

The Turkish prime minister also said Turkish Foreign Minister Feridun Sinirlioğlu went to Paris to attend a meeting on Syria before the reunion of key countries in Vienna seeking a formula to end the Syria crisis on Oct. 23.

“Could the Syria problem be resolved in an equation where Turkey is not present? Would a plan work in Syria despite Turkey? Had such a plan worked, [al-]Assad would still have the full control of the country today. Such a plan would not work because Turkey can never leave the fate of its 911-kilometer-long border to any country’s decision. We have made it clear to the U.S. and to Russia,” Davutoğlu said.

The prime minister also said that a meeting bringing together the foreign ministers of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Russia and Iran would “probably” be held on Oct. 30.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 27 Oct 2015 23:29

Russian special forces sweep into Syria -Oct 27, 2015

DAMASCUS – Russia has sent Special Forces to Syria to support the government of President Bashar al-Assad, military sources reported on Monday.

“The special forces were pulled out of Ukraine and sent to Syria in a bid to coordinate with Iranian military advisers against rebels,” an anti-Assad rebel commander said.

The special forces, akin to a Delta Force, had been operating in pro-Russian rebels-held areas of Ukraine before being called off to Syria, a Russian official told the Wall Street Journal.

Increasing the number of ground forces would help coordinate the Russian airstrikes ــwhich mainly target the anti-Assad rebel groups.

On Oct. 5, Russia reportedly dispatched some ground troops to Syria, including artillery units, in a bid to bolster pro-regime forces in the fight against rebel groups in Hama and other provinces.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Oct 2015 02:30

By now it must b clear to Putin that KSA has to given a few things to worry about. Like Guillotines on the main square in Riyadh. Wonder what is the shortest path there - a Houthi victory seems too difficult. But a nice coup/mutual knifings between princes?

Is everything lovey-dovey between KSA and Erdoganstan?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Oct 2015 02:37

Presstitutes At Their Work
By Paul Craig Roberts
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/10/pau ... utes-work/

The other tool used by presstitutes is to discuss a problem with no reference to its causes. Yesterday I heard a long discussion on NPR, a corporate and Israeli owned propaganda organ, about the migrant problem in Europe. Yes, migrants, not refugees.These migrants have appeared out of nowhere. They have decided to seek a better life in Europe, where capitalism, which provides jobs, freedom, democracy, and women’s rights guarantee a fulfilling life. Only the West provides a fulfilling life, because it doesn’t yet bomb itself.The hords overrunning Europe just suddenly decided to go there. It has nothing to do with Washington’s 14 years of destruction of seven countries, enabled by the dumbship Europeans themselves, who provided cover for the war crimes under such monikers as the “coalition of the willing,” a “NATO operation,” “bringing freedom and democracy.”From the Western presstitute media you would never know that the millions fleeing into Europe are fleeing American and European bombs that have indiscriminately slaughtered and dislocated millions of Muslim peoples.Not even the tiny remnant of conservative magazines, the ones that the neocon nazis have not taken over or exterminated, can find the courage to connect the refugees with US policy in the Middle East.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Oct 2015 03:39

UlanBatori wrote:By now it must b clear to Putin that KSA has to given a few things to worry about. Like Guillotines on the main square in Riyadh. Wonder what is the shortest path there - a Houthi victory seems too difficult. But a nice coup/mutual knifings between princes?

Is everything lovey-dovey between KSA and Erdoganstan?

Shortest path remains self destruct mode. Dethroning of current king and resultant infighting provides for a great opportunity to put to rest (I mean a good deep rest) the entire West Asia issue. There is a slim chance but if there are a few among large cuntenders to the saudi throne ready to play the game, it will be once in a lifetime event to watch. Hope we are lucky to watch this spectacle.

Outside of that, Russia securing European market for itself on an already captured half a trillion deal with China, and leaving Iran to fight Saudis for share for the remaining market will cook the Saudi goose.

Saudi and Russia are fighting for European market
OPEC and domestic supplies, which are increasing are serving US market
China market is served by domestic, Saudi, and Russian supplies
Indian market is reliant on OPEC; Potential of IPI pipeline's important can't be underestimated
Latin America has two large suppliers (Venezuela and Brazil).
Japan is reliant on OPEC but share of Iran and Russia too can grow easily

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Oct 2015 03:56

Oil prices will drop only. If Sunni block loose Europe & china market and US is self sufficient , then Arabicstanis will have very few customers left. They will compete dropping prices. India get the decade long breather to fix long term solution for energy security.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Oct 2015 04:02

Turkey and Pukistan are most uniquely positioned for hafta wasooli. Turkey's moment has arrived. For them it will be either Saudis giving them discount or Russians to get their way (or sustain their way) to Europe.

Paki moment has not arrived yet thanks to their own hafta wasooli for delaying that arrival so idiots benefited from that too. Pak is gateway to Indian market as far as energy supplies are concerned.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Oct 2015 06:44

Satya_anveshi wrote:Russian special forces sweep into Syria -Oct 27, 2015

DAMASCUS – Russia has sent Special Forces to Syria to support the government of President Bashar al-Assad, military sources reported on Monday.

“The special forces were pulled out of Ukraine and sent to Syria in a bid to coordinate with Iranian military advisers against rebels,” an anti-Assad rebel commander said.

The special forces, akin to a Delta Force, had been operating in pro-Russian rebels-held areas of Ukraine before being called off to Syria, a Russian official told the Wall Street Journal.

Increasing the number of ground forces would help coordinate the Russian airstrikes ــwhich mainly target the anti-Assad rebel groups.

On Oct. 5, Russia reportedly dispatched some ground troops to Syria, including artillery units, in a bid to bolster pro-regime forces in the fight against rebel groups in Hama and other provinces.

Again, not a good sign and a poor reflection on the effectiveness of Iranian forces - the early actions indicated that it was going to be Iranian+SAA land support with Russian Air Power to get the job done. Recall that in the very recent past, in Crimea and later Ukraine, Russia led with the Special Forces. That is the normal order of how these operations go, and Russia is far too sophisticated to introduce this element so out of order. To me it appears that SAA and Iranian forces are encountering unanticipated difficulties and the Russian Special Forces are a reinforcement or a fire brigade to get desired results.

I may be reading too much into it, but these developments do not comport with the coverage being put out from the Russia+Shia alliance.

At this point I am just making an observation, my sympathies are with whichever alliance that can bring some measure of stability to this sorry region. If the Russians can do it, more power to them. My point, I guess, is that achieving that goal might involve a lot more than what the Russians initially anticipated.