The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 04:57

Slightly OT but swimmer, instead of swimming, continues to attempt playing cricket (batting) for amrika.

India feeds over 30% of Gulf airlines' US traffic - May 2015

Gulf airlines rapid expansion in US is a source of escalating trade dispute and US airlines are demanding freeze on additional flights from Dubai and Doha

The Capa report, released earlier this month, shows passengers from India contributed 36 per cent to Emirates and Etihad’s US traffic in a 12-month period ending August 2014. In the case of Qatar’s US traffic, the share of Indian passengers is 28 per cent.

Gulf airlines are winning the battle for the skies Mar21, 2015

Middle East airlines Emirates, Qatar and Etihad are shaking up the aviation market, undeterred by claims that state subsidies provide an unfair advantage

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Nov 2015 06:23

S_A: I was thinking about the Hon. Senator Graham's rants at the hearing. Makes sense. He is reflecting the sheer frustration and rage of the neo-cons at being obstructed in their campaign to destroy Assad. These are the same gang who pushed the US into invading Iraq.

The neo-Cons claim to be devout Xtians - yet they are directly responsible for the genocide against Xtians in Egypt, Iraq and now Syria. Go figure! Greed for $$$ is far more important than religious affinity.

member_29089 · Post by **member_29089** » 01 Nov 2015 07:04

ramana wrote:there was an odd report quoting a senior US official saing IS is in Sinai.
I wondered that means Egypt has also fallen to IS and on other side of Israel.

Looks like its a cover or precursor to this incident.

Will look at google.
Others can also help find it.

Ramana, it is possible that US had some SigInt or some inside info about bad guys wanting to shoot down a civilian airliner. It is possible that US would have shared such an info with the Russians (thus the higher rate of climb). I do not think that US will knowingly allow terrorists to shoot down even a Russian civilian airplane let alone US itself doing it as is being suggested below.

UlanBatori wrote:Shooting down a civilian airliner is stupid, no matter who does it. If someone wanted Russia to send strategic bombers and even Antonovs filled with bombs and shower them on themselves, they couldn't have done anything more foolish. So you ask: who did it?

<chop>

4) So we are forced to the conclusion that the ISIS was **NOT*** who did this. Brings you to the next most plausible villains with the right level of bitterness and loser-mentality: ukbapzis.
Which forces you to the next question: who was behind the ukbapzis? Did I read somewhere that someone had said something strange about someone being is Sy Ny? There I quit speculating and go back to non-thinking. Let me visit cnn.com instead.

To even remotely suggest that US is shooting down a Russian airliner with women and children on board reminds me of Zaid Hamidsque Mentality (ZHM). Which is "All bad things in the world are related to one bad Satan the USA and it's waging a 7th generation war". Next time please write in plain English so more people can understand. I am sure one knows that the SNR at -70dB is called "crud" for a good reason.

member_29228 · Post by **member_29228** » 01 Nov 2015 08:02

In memorium

Form Wikki

Iran Air Flight 655 is an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes under the command of William C. Rogers III. The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes. All 290 on board died.[1] The cruiser Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Nov 2015 08:36

Wapo article ... State of affairs in Iraq

We have four axes converging on Ramadi, and on any given day, none of them makes any movement at all,” said a senior U.S. official involved in the war planning.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Nov 2015 08:38

Ramadi is a fight a regular us army brigade would easily win given low Isis numbers vs a regular army but thousands of shia militia and Sunni tribes are unable to.

Bandit type hit and raiding is all that middle East militias are good at

member_29089 · Post by **member_29089** » 01 Nov 2015 10:39

Palmer wrote:In memorium

Form Wikki

Iran Air Flight 655 is an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes under the command of William C. Rogers III. The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes. All 290 on board died.[1] The cruiser Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[

Thank you for the selective words from the Wiki page. The same page also says

The United States government did not formally apologize to Iran.[14] In 1996, the United States and Iran reached a settlement at the International Court of Justice which included the statement "...the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the loss of lives caused by the incident...".[15] As part of the settlement, the United States did not admit legal liability but agreed to pay on an ex gratia basis US$61.8 million, amounting to $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.

The US admitted and settled with the Iranians, lives can not be brought back but the US paid hard cash and the matter is closed. Of course we will never know the deep facts about who or what was on the plane.

In memorium-2
1983 Soviets shot down South Korean flight 007. Please check the propaganda surrounding it

In memorium-3
2014 Malaysian MH17 in Ukrain. Who admitted what, we all know.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 10:44

UlanBatori wrote:S_A: I was thinking about the Hon. Senator Graham's rants at the hearing. Makes sense. He is reflecting the sheer frustration and rage of the neo-cons at being obstructed in their campaign to destroy Assad. These are the same gang who pushed the US into invading Iraq.

The neo-Cons claim to be devout Xtians - yet they are directly responsible for the genocide against Xtians in Egypt, Iraq and now Syria. Go figure! Greed for $$$ is far more important than religious affinity.

UB ji,

It is absolutely a rant/hot air. His outburst is mainly because defense planners (this is also a cop out because he is integral part of all this middle east strategy) didn't plan for Russian intervention and once Putin entered their strategy went kaput.

Lindsay Graham is one of the "three amigos" who go on foreign missions (Lindsay Graham, John McCain of AZ, and Joe Lieberman of CT) and mess up countries. In that sense, he was playing *on behalf of * John McCain and hitting Obama from the shourders of Ashton Carter and the jarnail even though McCain in on record saying that "If US goes in, Russia and China will not do anything."

Per wiki this guy is known as war hawk so nothing will ever come out of his orifice that is defensive. He is always in favor of moar, moar and moar war. He was involved with air force in non-combat roles and passes off as war veteran.

He announced his bid in the 2016 Presidential race.

In relation to that cspan video posted, he says Syrian people want two things
1. they want ISIS to be defeated
2. they want to see Assad, who is blamed for 250k deaths, go

He keeps mixing the first with the second although he can be absolutely sure about #1 as it is his (and his own buddy McCain's) doing. He cannot be sure about #2 but he keeps bringing that and assigns the 250k deaths on Assad and tries to absolve US responsibility of the same.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 10:52

Here is link to entire senate hearing session:
U.S. Strategy in the Middle East

Defense Secretary Ashton Carter and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair General Joseph Dunford testified at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on U.S. strategy in the Middle East. Senators' questions were focused primarily on U.S. operations in Syria and Iraq, and the Obama administration’s approach to balancing military operations against ISIL,* and the political situation with the Russia- and Iran-backed President Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria.

Bolded part was the key agenda item and the reason for senator's rant (on behalf of his buddy McCain).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2015 11:13

IF I am not wrong the military folks who shot the Iranian Passenger Plane got a medal for it

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 11:14

US Special Forces deployed as ‘human shields’ to salvage terror assets in Syria - Nov 01 2015

Obama’s decision to send Special Forces into Syria is being widely viewed as a US military escalation in the country. The troop dispatch also signals that the US trying to forestall Russian successes in wiping out Washington’s regime-change assets in Syria.
Trends
Islamic State, Russian anti-terror op in Syria, Syria unrest
In short, the US Special Forces are being used as “human shields” to curb Russian air strikes against anti-government mercenaries, many of whom are instrumental in Washington’s regime-change objective in Syria.

First of all, we need to view a host of developments, including the hastily convened “peace talks” in Vienna, as a response by the US and its allies to the game-changing military intervention by Russia. That intervention, beginning on September 30, has not only dealt massive blows to militants, it has completely changed the balance of forces to give the Assad government the upper hand in the war against foreign-backed extremists. That, in turn, has sent the US-led powers trying to topple Damascus into disarray.

But here is perhaps the significant part of the story. “The move could potentially put the American troops in the cross hairs of Russia,” reports the New York Times. Significantly, too, the Pentagon will not be informing the Russian military of the exact whereabouts of its ground personnel.

That suggests that the real purpose for Obama sending in the troops is to restrict Russian offensive operations by introducing the risk of bombing American forces. In effect, the US Special Forces are being used as human shields to protect American regime-change assets on the ground.

These assets include an array of jihadist mercenary brigades, which the US and its allies have invested billions of dollars in for the objective of regime change in Syria. The misnomer of “moderate rebels” belies abundant evidence that the mercenaries include Al Qaeda-linked terror groups, including Islamic State. CIA supplies of anti-tank TOW missiles as well as Toyota jeeps are just a glimpse of the foreign covert-sponsorship.

Russia’s devastating air campaign over the past month – over 1,600 targets destroyed according to Moscow – has no doubt caused apoplexy in Washington, London, Paris, Ankara, Riyadh and Doha. An urgent stop to their “losses” had to be invoked. But the foreign sponsors can’t say it openly otherwise that gives the game away about their criminal involvement in Syria’s war.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 01 Nov 2015 11:22

OT:GunterH,
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1692736
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1695167

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2015 14:40

Putin ZERO , Obama SUPERHERO says White House

Russia no longer a superpower: US

WASHINGTON: Russia is no longer a superpower as its deteriorating economy is ranked "somewhere behind Spain", the White House on Thursday said and stressed that Moscow's influence is limited compared to the erstwhile Soviet Union.

"Russia is no longer a superpower. Observed in the last couple of weeks that the condition of Russia's economy is weak and further deteriorating," White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters.

"They are now the 15th-largest economy in the world, and they rank somewhere behind Spain," he said.

Earnest said Russia does not have the kind of influence that the Soviet Union once did and it does not have the kind of economic power that the Soviet Union once was able to flex.

"Their economy is getting worse, and Russia is isolated in a significant way. Not just from countries in Europe, but, as they get further engaged in a sectarian quagmire inside of Syria, they're finding that the only friends that they have there to fight in a difficult fight with them is a floundering Syrian government and the Iranian regime," he said.

Earnest also earlier said that the US Navy scrambled four fighter jets to intercept Russian warplanes earlier this week near a US aircraft carrier operating off the Korean peninsula in the Sea of Japan.

Two Russian planes flew close to the USS Ronald Reagan, prompting the mobilisation of four FA-18s, he said.

"There were four FA-18 firers from the carrier airwing five that were launched to intercept the bombers and the US Navy aircraft did escort the Russian aircraft until they departed the area where the carrier, the USS Ronald Reagan was operating," he said.

"We have previously raised concerns about Russian military aircraft essentially carrying out incursions on the sovereignty of other countries... This is a little bit different than that. This is -- these are international waters and international airspace," Earnest said.

The US has regularly urged the Russian military to make sure that their operations in this space were consistent with generally accepted international protocols.

This is a particular situation that did not result in a significant confrontation for that reason, he added.

Earnest acknowledged that there's no doubt that there are some vigorous disagreements between our two countries on issues like Ukraine and Syria, most prominently.

"We've been pretty candid about our concerns about Russians behaviour, particularly with regard to those two countries," he said.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2015 14:42

Thats a clear change of position from White House , Last Year OBAMA said Russia does not make any thing , Now they are clearly behind Spain

Did Russia starting making something in one year like Cheese , Butter Milk and is clearly behind Spain

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Nov 2015 16:28

I do not think that US will knowingly allow terrorists to shoot down even a Russian civilian airplane let alone US itself doing it as is being suggested below.

UlanBatori wrote:
Shooting down a civilian airliner is stupid, no matter who does it. If someone wanted Russia to send strategic bombers and even Antonovs filled with bombs and shower them on themselves, they couldn't have done anything more foolish. So you ask: who did it?

<chop>

4) So we are forced to the conclusion that the ISIS was **NOT*** who did this. Brings you to the next most plausible villains with the right level of bitterness and loser-mentality: ukbapzis.
Which forces you to the next question: who was behind the ukbapzis? Did I read somewhere that someone had said something strange about someone being is Sy Ny? There I quit speculating and go back to non-thinking. Let me visit cnn.com instead.
To even remotely suggest that US is shooting down a Russian airliner with women and children on board reminds me of Zaid Hamidsque Mentality (ZHM). Which is "All bad things in the world are related to one bad Satan the USA and it's waging a 7th generation war". Next time please write in plain English so more people can understand. I am sure one knows that the SNR at -70dB is called "crud" for a good reason.

Once again, Gunther, you are doing nothing but flame-baiting. We presented facts and logic here. You come in and make your holy false-Patriotism rants with sweeping flame-baits like "eat your samosas" (isn't that a blatant racist, sectarian flame-bait? Why not "eat your pig-burgers"? "eat your hot dogs?") without an iota of debating merit. Is that the best you can do with your intelligence to rebut the glaring facts and arguments about covert US involvement in creating and sustaining the horrible atrocities in Syria/Iraq? Does the US bear no responsibility for destroying the ability of the Iraqi and now Syrian people to defend themselves against (US-armed, US-ally-Saudi-funded) rapist thugs? If you are American and a taxpayer, can you stand before your Maker and deny all responsibility without risking Her Laughter?

I took the trouble to present you with a succinct list of points to rebut. You disappeared.
You come back weeks later with the same paki-style repetitions.
I asked you respectfully to try and rebut the arguments. You disappear. That is trolling. Pakiness. I don't know Zaid Ham whatever but you clearly do.

Now this. So let me analyze your post in plain english, comprehensible with SNR of 1000.

1. Your opinion of the occurrences in the Sinai can be terminated without losing factual value at

I do not think.

Period. Sure, that is obvious, thanks for recognizing that.

2.

To even remotely suggest that US is shooting down a Russian airliner with women and children on board reminds me of

Who did? You just did. Shocking!

You are the only person who has linked the US to shooting down this Russian airliner with 138 women and 22 children aboard. Of course the US I know wouldn't do anything of the sort. Providing weapons to those who go in and personally torture, rape and enslave women and children is one thing... whether in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria or now Iraq - if the reports we read of the invasion of Yazidi villages have any truth in them. But shoot down a civilian airliner? NO!!

But.. Please quit trolling and flamebaiting - I am asking respectfully for the third time. I have as much right to present facts and logic as anyone else has. If the arguments are wrong, try rebutting them like an honest adult, not like a South Carolina Senator. If the facts make you uncomfortable, please wonder why. Try going to Fox News, perhaps where a few bogus-Patriotic rants would be taken as deep analysis, on par with Sarah-Palinesque intellectual depth.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Nov 2015 17:01

Here is a short list of things where the US/US-funded entities were likewise falsely accused:

1. Shooting down of the Iranair Airbus with 321 people on board: The USS Vincennes was falsely blamed, using the cover of an incident where the brave ship had rightfully defended herself against an Iranian F-14 coming in for a kamikaze attack. You think a US missile cruiser cyaint tell the difference between an F-14 and an Airbus? Hah!
2. Shooting down the plane carrying UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjoeld and (elected) Congolese PM Patrick Lumumba.
3. Sabotaging the Air India Boeing 707 carrying India's premier nuclear scientist Homi Jehangir Bhabha, to crash onto Mont Blanc. What a canard! Everyone knows it was intended to crash into the Matterhorn!
4. Overthrowing the legitimately elected, nationalist government of Mossadegh in Iran.
5. Overthrowing (and assassinating?) the elected leader of Chile.
6. Bombing Cambodia (Nixon and the Pentagon staunchly denied this, and I believe them).
7. Supporting, funding, equipping an invasion force into the Bay of Samosas in Cuba. Everyone knows the USA **NEVER** interferes in the internal affairs of other countries.
8. Funding drug-lord Manuel Noriega to take over Panama (he is now a guest of the US govt).
9. Funding, equipping and training the army and air force of Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza (no relation to eatable samosas) to terrorize the Nicaraguan people, including using the Air Force to bomb residential neighborhoods in Managua. To the CBS 60 Minutes Team, he said:

But I have The People on my side.

Just like ~~Al Nusra~~ the Free Syrian Army. And the US always supports The People, as we all know.
10. Funding, equipping and training the drug-gang terrorists (Nicaraguan Contras) using money from drug sales worldwide, and missile sales to Iran, to overthrow a lawfully-elected government of Nicaragua. Col. Oliver North staunchly denied this before Congress, and I believe that great hero. I mean, one look at his loyal secretary Fawn Hall

, and who can disbelieve him? Besides, the cocaine was CLEARLY labeled, in PLAIN ENGLISH:

Here is ur brain. Totally inactive. Here is ur brain on drugs: Wildly active like a fried egg dancing in oil.

11. Giving Stinger SAMs to the Taliban. (STRICTLY to use against Russian military plane, NEVER against any plane carrying civilians. The Taliban SWORE on the Bible that they would never violate this!)
12. Giving F-86 Sabre Jets to Pakistan. STRICTLY to defend Pakistan against Russian aggression. Ayub Khan swore, again, on the Bible, NEVER to use them against Indian villagers.
13. Giving Patton tanks to Pakistan. Ditto. Strictly to address the paucity of public toilets in Pakistan, later gifted to India. Think Swacch Pakistaniyat. Way ahead of its time.
14. Supporting the genocide of over 3 million East Pakistanis, most of the victims being Hindus, the rest anyone who could read or write or, Houristan forbid, THINK).
15. Sending the 7th Fleet into the Bay of Bengal to protect/save the rapist mass-murderers in East Pakistan. Everyone knows the 7th Fleet was right then caught in an Electronic Storm and had passed through into 1893, to combat the Barbary Pirates (Oh! Did I say Pirates? My mistake.

Moderate Libyan Freedom Fighters. Free Libyan Navy.)
Sorry for the OT, I felt I had to support Gunther here in his unshakeable patriotism. I mean, surely no NeoCon Patriot seriously believes that the US Government should obey the Constitution of the United States of America, do they?

** I am going to do a Gunther imitation and disappear before the Su-30s come in to bomb***

Apologies for the OT in advance.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Nov 2015 17:28

Don't forget the CIA assassination of President John Kennedy.

Also the moon landings were faked.

And according to Austin the US gave medals to everybody on the Navy who was falsely accused of shooting down the Iranian jet liner.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Nov 2015 17:43

list of air liner shoot downs.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _incidents

Notice the use of strella 2 manpads used in some shoot downs.

all supplied by the cia, naturally.

we won't talk about the Buk missile used against MH17.......no no no, all lies by the US or, er, well the Netherlands.

or the two Korean air liners shot down in a cia plot. and NASA and the space shuttle involved in shoot down of Korean flight 007!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Nov 2015 18:00

Back to our regular Syrian programming. Qatar is totally humanitarian and a Friend of Liberty.

Top Qatar Minister Grilled About Role In Syria On Qatari-Owned Network
"They can liberate their country themselves." Sam Levine, Associate Politics Editor, The Huffington Post (*: A liberal commie pinko outfit) Posted: 10/31/2015 01:27 PM EDT
FAYEZ NURELDINE/Getty Images

Qatari Foreign Minister Khalid al Attiyah defended the role his country has played in Syria in a tense interview with Al Jazeera on Friday.

The Qatari-owned network (oooh! The Free Press of the Sultanate!) questioned the minister about the country's willingness to take in Syrian refugees and its actions in the country's civil war.

"In Qatar we don't consider the Syrian[islamic terrorists] our refugees at all," Attiyah said. "We take them in, we offer them jobs, we offer them all the healthcare, education, we built two schools for the Syrians in Qatar."

"We deal with them as brothers, and we give them all the care they need as Qataris," he added.

Qatar is among the counties (Quatar is not yet a county in the US, but several counties such as Montgomery county, AL-Obama and OliverNorth County, ~~Virginia~~ Houristania have indeed been..)funding the Syrian rebels who are fighting against Syrian President Bashar Assad; it has also supported U.S.-led airstrikes in Syria. While Attiyah said that "the core group friend of Syria would do whatever necessary to protect the Syrian people," he added that Qatar would not conduct airstrikes or send ground troops into Syria.
"They can liberate their country themselves," he said. (or what's left after US airstrikes)

Attiyah also disputed that his country had financed extremist rebel groups with ties to the Islamic State, al Nusra and al Qaeda. Last year, Vice President Joe Biden accused U.S. allies in the Middle East of providing support to extremist groups, but later apologized for the comments.
"[Biden] didn't mention Qatar," Attiyah said. "I can tell you that we consider ISIL and Jabhat al Nusra terrorist groups."
The Qatari foreign minister also defended his country's support for the rebel group Ahrar al Sham, which has worked with an al Qaeda affiliate in Syria, denying that al Sham was an extremist organization.
"I am telling you that Ahrar al Sham is a Syrian group, they look for their liberation, and they are working among other moderate groups," the minister said.
The United States has looked warily at the group, a potential ally in Syria, whose first leader in 2013 called for the establishment of an Islamic government in the country. Watch the full interview here.

Wonder what the problem is. Everyone knows Islam is a Religion of Peace, and all Islamic Governments are totally humanitarian, respecting and protecting individual freedom to applaud ~~the Caliph and his goons~~ The Government and its brave agents. Same as America, isn't it?

BTW, the 400%-peaceful Minister also declared that Qatar has decided against direct military intervention. Putin is said to be sighing in relief, because Peptov-Bismolov is under US embargo in Moscow.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 01 Nov 2015 19:03

>>because Peptov-Bismolov is under US embargo in Moscow.

Only Ulanbatori!!!

On a more serious note I agree that the special forces are being inducted as expendable human shields. If only 1 or 2 die as a result of Russian bombing, imagine the wave of patriotism and flag waving that will result. Suddenly there will be a new surge of public support for the "men in uniform". And the war weary US public will again be game for another large overseas war with "boots on the ground" to defeat "evil" Putin.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 19:44

Flight 7K9268 Broke Into Pieces Midair, Too Early to Determine Cause Nov 01, 2015

Viktor Sorochenko, an official with the Intergovernmental Aviation Committee, made the comments after inspecting the crash site on Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

The Russian Airbus A321 which crashed in Egypt Saturday killing 224 broke into pieces midair, but it is still too early to determine the cause, Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) said Sunday.

"It is too early to draw conclusions," MAK executive director Viktor Sorochenko said. "Disintegration of the fuselage took place in the air, and the fragments are scattered around a large area [about 20 square kilometers]", the official added.

In a separate development, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said the investigation into the crash causes could take months.

"This is a complicated matter and requires advanced technologies and broad investigations that could take months," he told army recruits in a televised speech on Sunday.

A Kogalymavia/Metrojet Airbus A321 en route to St. Petersburg from the resort city of Sharm El-Sheikh with 217 passengers and seven crew on board, crashed in the Sinai Peninsula, leaving no survivors. The Sinai air crash became the deadliest air accident in the history of Russian aviation, surpassing the 1985 disaster in Uzbekistan, where 200 people died.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2015 19:44

TSJones wrote:we won't talk about the Buk missile used against MH17.......no no no, all lies by the US or, er, well the Netherlands.

The BUK were also used by Ukraine Armed Forces

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 19:58

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015

MANAMA, Bahrain -- The United States ramped up its support for Syria's opposition Saturday with a pledge of nearly $100 million in fresh aid.

As expected a new group was formed moments before receiving this "aid." It is to be fully expected that moments later, this group will merge with ISIS.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 01 Nov 2015 20:19

Apart from the humanitarian operation to salvage the terror remnants the US Sp Op
elements are being tasked as field scouts to asses RU bombing.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 20:42

One cannot rule out US forces committing hara-kiri, blowing up schools and hospitals, to blame it on Ru. They already blamed an incident but in a laughable manner could not substantiated it with any shred of evidence.
Within Syria we have cases where US and allies bombing civilian infrastructure like power stations and water processing plans. In Afghanistan they perfected art of killing innocent children, women, bombing hospitals and demonstrated their up-to-date status as lately as few weeks before when they bombed a hospital of Doctors without borders.

They are so drunk on media/propaganda power that they think they can spin out any number of BS news items, u-turns, inconsistencies, and can get away with it particularly within US but also in other regions where they have complete hold on mainstream media such as in Europe and India.

member_29089 · Post by **member_29089** » 01 Nov 2015 20:58

Satya_anveshi wrote:One cannot rule out US forces committing hara-kiri, blowing up schools and hospitals, to blame it on Ru. They already blamed an incident but in a laughable manner could not substantiated it with any shred of evidence.
Within Syria we have cases where US and allies bombing civilian infrastructure like power stations and water processing plans. In Afghanistan they perfected art of killing innocent children, women, bombing hospitals and demonstrated their up-to-date status as lately as few weeks before when they bombed a hospital of Doctors without borders.

They are so drunk on media/propaganda power that they think they can spin out any number of BS news items, u-turns, inconsistencies, and can get away with it particularly within US but also in other regions where they have complete hold on mainstream media such as in Europe and India.

If the US wanted to blow up schools and hospitals then they won't send in SEALS with publicity in advance. Puleeeeese have some limit to your conspiracy theories on a daily basis, Puleeeese oursource it to pakis who are better than thou. I hope the thread remains as neutral as possible with news and analysis rather then one or two people's personal grudge against the US perhaps because of a bad boss or a job loss.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 21:21

GunterH, you need to get a life and stop taking it in the mouth from US propagandists.

I already built my neutral third party observer ivory tower and nicely ensconced in it. Observing the inescapable reality of host of countries destroyed because of US's misadventure leading to millions of deaths that were totally preventable. There is no other country other than US that had ability to prevent it. So, in the interest of true freedom, liberty, human rights, and democracy, truth laden reports are provided (for a change).

If the truth is hurting it is because that stuff you were enjoying taking-in has been called out for what it is. It is expected that people like you will feel hurt.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Nov 2015 22:39

If I put on my See-N-N Raybans and plug my FOXNews earphones into my ears and open my Nursery Fairy Tales book to the Tooth Fairy page, I can begin to believe that the Special Forces are being sent to 'take out' the leadership of the ISIS. Trouble is, as our dear Al Guntherji Bin Peshawari points out in a Freudian slip-up or rare moment of clarity, such an operation would not be advertised until after it is over. The advertised send-in of Special Forces (as opposed to, say, 101st Airborne or Rapid Reaction Force which are the logical choices to send into really violent disaster areas such as New Orleans or LA) is redolent with a NeoCon odor.
I honestly thought BO had more sense than this. On day 1 of the Russian intervention he should have seized the high ground by welcoming the Russians to cooperate in finishing off the ISIS.
Violent regime change in Syria is not approved by the COTUS, is it?
Anyway, this is not good news. Special Forces implies operating behind enemy lines, which means death by torture if not blown up, if their cover is blown. If they are leaving AFTER the announcement, chances are that they will be tracked from Ft. Meade or wherever, all the way to the precise location in Turkey where they run the equivalent of Al Quaeda - the Safe House in Peshawar operated by Bin Laden and Haqqani.

What happens if they are killed in a Russian air strike? It's a war zone, and right now, the RUAF has air superiority over most of Syria.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 01 Nov 2015 23:12

According to GunterH, UN chief has personal grudge against US because of job loss and/or issue with boss.

Nov 01, 2015

Bombing of civilians, hospitals becoming commonplace in conflicts – UN chief

There is a risk that the deliberate bombing of civilians, hospitals and schools will be seen as the inevitable result of armed conflicts around the globe, UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, said. "These violations have become commonplace,” Ban said commenting on the recent bombings of Medecins sans Frontiers (MSF) hospitals in Afghanistan and Yemen by US and Saudi warplanes. Ban Ki-moon urged the international community to respect international humanitarian law and take all necessary political measures, and called for a swift and unbiased probe into the attack to bring those responsible to justice.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 02 Nov 2015 01:15

GunterH, you need to get a life and stop taking it in the mouth from US propagandists.

I already built my neutral third party observer ivory tower and nicely ensconced in it. Observing the inescapable reality of host of countries destroyed because of US's misadventure leading to millions of deaths that were totally preventable. There is no other country other than US that had ability to prevent it. So, in the interest of true freedom, liberty, human rights, and democracy, truth laden reports are provided (for a change).

Satya you have said what I think throughout last few statements.I took me my own life experiences of day to day living in the west and slowly come to certain conclusions some of which you have already stated.
Even though probably very few people will agree with me but I make this prediction based on age old Hinduism statement "Satyamev jayte". The days of western hegemony are numbered.Even though it,s public and may be the politicians still do not know this.A culture based on lies, propganda, slavery and on the expoitation of men and nature will not survive for long.

As far as this syrian conflict is concerned Russia is on the right side of truth.

i hope to god that this plane crash was from mechanical failure and not terrorist related even though I am suspicious. If it was from men made causes related to the present conflict western powers better brash themselves for hell.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Nov 2015 01:27

The crash investigators say that the wreckage and bodies are spread over 16-20 km, confirming that the plane broke up, probably in an explosive manner, at a high altitude. That is not consistent with bad fuel stopping the engines. It is also not consistent with stall (stall might conceivably break off a wing (hard to imagine) but shattering a fuselage? Not known. It is more consistent with the other failure modes, some of which I discussed. I don't think even MH-17 crash site was spread out that extensive.
The crash is terrible news, but this makes it absolutely horrible.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 02 Nov 2015 02:24

There is a reason why the 50 are announced. Preannouncement means stealth is not possible nor these are worth anything more than personal security. I can think of two scenarios.
1) Create a Gulf Tonkin incident. They will themselves blow these people up near a hospital or school with a russian origin bomb.
2) They are human shields of ISIS. They are the protective detail of the ISIS top leadership. It is clear that they dont want russia to attack something or some one. These 50 will not stop isis. It can only be russia. The timing makes it clear. So who does isis does not want to kill? THe answer is itself.

I cannot think of anything else they can realistically do, with their needs of replenishment and the full publicity they received.. These people will stand out when staying at a base, so tracking them is easy and they will need constant supply of food and ammunition. So they will be reasonably fixed in their location.

My personal bet is on 1.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Nov 2015 03:44

per reports:

Flight data recorder has been retrieved by Russian authorities and yet to decoded and analyzed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Nov 2015 07:12

is it confirmed there was no distress call or request to land at nearest airport in sinai?

i read conflicting reports on this. a progressive structural failure leading to flight instability to total breakup would still give time for the pilots to broadcasts a mayday. a lethal explosion esp in the avionics bay under the nose would kill both the avionics and the flight crew.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Nov 2015 08:25

No point in speculating , If there was explosion traces of explosive will be found , if it happened due to sudden structural collapse that too would be found.

Its better to wait for them to do through analysis and know the result , Lets not speculate

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Nov 2015 08:27

Possible scenarios:
1. ISIS MANPADS - out of question because of range
2. Bomb - Due to apparent full explosion while in the air, cannot be ruled out
3. Hijack and then soosai - If rapid descent is prior to explosion then it may indicate cockpit fighting and soosais doing the expected; but rapid descent can also be explained if pilot came to know about #2 and still trying to salvage from the situation to save how many ever he can.
4. Mechanical fault - one of the possibilities and may be even likely; however aircraft passed most recent safety test
5. Manual fault - less likely because of reasonable experience of pilot

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Nov 2015 08:58

Satya_anveshi wrote:Possible scenarios:
1. ISIS MANPADS - out of question because of range
2. Bomb - Due to apparent full explosion while in the air, cannot be ruled out
3. Hijack and then soosai - If rapid descent is prior to explosion then it may indicate cockpit fighting and soosais doing the expected; but rapid descent can also be explained if pilot came to know about #2 and still trying to salvage from the situation to save how many ever he can.
4. Mechanical fault - one of the possibilities and may be even likely; however aircraft passed most recent safety test
5. Manual fault - less likely because of reasonable experience of pilot

There were ruski holidaymakers predominant among the passengers, many of whom were carrying scuba dive tanks as part of their sharm el sheik holiday trip. regulations say that all pressurized tanks must be discharged prior to carriage as cargo/whatever on aircraft. Some of these tanks may not have been fully depressurized as it was a very early morning trip and there may have been lack of supervision to confirm complete depressurization of all loaded dive tanks . An exploding pressurized tank just has to pierce the skin of the aircraft and explosive decompression may well easily complete the rest of the sad story.

This very same aircraft had suffered a bad tail strike with extensive damage some years ago and the repair scheme may not have up to scratch. Such a botched up repair may have given way as it has done on several other tail strike aircraft leading to loss of hull and/or life.

a badly repaired, tail strike damaged pressurized bulkhead, may well give way due to repetitive stresses after many thousands of operating cycles leading to in flight breakup and the resulting large debris field.

This was an A321. There are some reports of an unreported heavy landing on this aircraft some time ago. An airbus 321 is particularly susceptible to damage during a very heavy landing because of it's length. It also had a RTO (rejected take off) a few months ago. These are all reasons to aggravate any imperfections resulting from a botched up tail strike damage repair scheme.

All of the above is still in the realm of speculation but since the recorders have been recovered, the reports may be out soon setting to rest such speculations.

as per some reports, the pilot may not have had a lot of experience on the airbus. He may have been well experienced on other types.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Nov 2015 09:37

Could a bomb have caused the Russian plane to crash in Sinai? - Nov01, 2015

French experts believe Isil may have placed bomb on plane that crashed in Egypt on Saturday, with 17 children {russian sources reported 25 children} and 207 adults on board, and President Sisi says nothing has been ruled out

Where and when did the plane crash?
The Kogalymavia -operated Airbus A321 was flying from Sharm el Sheikh to St Petersburg when it disappeared from radar screens at 6.14am on Saturday 31 October, having reached an altitude of 31,000 ft. The plane crashed and the wreckage has been found near the town of Hasna in the north of the Sinai Peninsula. All 224 passengers and crew, aged 10 months to 77 years, have died.

Do we know what caused the crash?
Two black boxes have been recovered from the scene and investigators are yet to determine the cause of the crash. Egypt's civil aviation minister Hossam Kamal said there had been no sign of any problems on board the flight and an SOS call hadn’t been made. Yet on the day of the crash, other Egyptian officials had said the pilot had had reported technical difficulties and requested permission to land at the nearest airport before losing contact with air traffic controllers.

Was it terrorism?
Isil in Egypt have claimed responsibility for the crash on social media, but most experts doubt the terror group has the sophisticated weapons required for such an attack. Egyptian and Russian officials have expressed scepticism about the Isil claim that it downed the plane. Some aviation experts believe Isil may have placed a bomb on the plane or sabotaged it in some way, but others say it is too early to tell if the tragedy was the result of a terror attack. Reports from Russia suggest there may have been technical problems with the plane, but the investigation is still in its preliminary phase, so it is hard to know the exact cause of the crash.

Who will conduct the investigation?
The disaster will be investigated by experts from Russian and Egyptian aviation agencies. They will be joined by a team from the European Aviation Safety Agency, because the Airbus was made in Europe, and the US National Transportation Safety Board, because the engines were manufactured in America.

Is it safe to travel to Egypt?
Germany's Lufthansa, Emirates and Air France said they would halt flights over Sinai until the reasons behind the crash became clear. { Brishit airways has explicitly clarified that they will continue to fly over sinai } Russia has grounded Kogalymavia’s fleet of six A321s until at least November 30 - the airline only has eight planes. Reports on social media suggest Russians have been cancelling flights and package tours with Kogalymavia in the wake of the crash. For Brits, The Foreign Office advises against "all travel" to the northern half of the Sinai Peninsula. But it does not warn against visiting Sharm el-Sheikh, the Red Sea resort where the aircraft took off. The Foreign Office cautions there is a "high threat from terrorism" throughout Egypt, adding: "We believe that terrorists continue to plan attacks. Attacks could be indiscriminate and occur without prior warning."

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Nov 2015 09:52

Officials search for cause of plane crash over Egypt's Sinai

Associated Press {wondering how much tata nammak to keep handy}

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (AP) - A Russian passenger airliner crashed Saturday in a remote mountainous part of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula 23 minutes after taking off from a popular Red Sea resort, killing all 224 people on board, including 25 children.

The cause of the crash was not known, but two major European airlines announced they would stop flying over the area for safety reasons after a local affiliate of the extremist Islamic State group claimed it "brought down" the aircraft. Russia's transport minister dismissed that claim as not credible.

Almost everyone on board the Airbus-A321-200 operated by the Moscow-based Metrojet airline was Russian; Ukraine said four of its citizens were passengers. Russian officials did not give a specific breakdown of the 217 passengers' ages and genders, but said 25 were children. There were seven crew members.

A civil aviation ministry statement said the plane's wreckage was found in the Hassana area some 70 kilometers (44 miles) south of the city of el-Arish, in the general area of northern Sinai where Egyptian security forces have for years battled local Islamic militants who in recent months claimed allegiance to the Islamic State group.

The ministry said the plane took off from the resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh shortly before 6 a.m. for St. Petersburg in Russia and disappeared from radar screens 23 minutes after takeoff. Egyptian Prime Minister Sherif Ismail toured the crash site and later told a Cairo news conference that 129 bodies had been recovered.

Photos from the site released by his office showed the badly damaged sky blue tail of the aircraft, with the Metrojet logo still visible. In the background, heaps of smoldering debris dotted the barren terrain.

One photo showed a member of the search team holding the flight recorder, or black box, which Ismail said would be scrutinized as investigators try to determine what caused the crash. Russian investigators were expected to arrive in Egypt on Sunday. { So, egyptian authorities had access to BB even before russian experts arrived }

Natalya Trukhacheva, identified as the wife of co-pilot Sergei Trukachev, said in an interview with Russian state-controlled NTV that her husband had complained about the plane's condition.

She said a daughter "called him up before he flew out. He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired."

One Egyptian official, Ayman al-Muqadem of the government's Aviation Incidents Committee, said that before the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers, the pilot had radioed and said the aircraft was experiencing technical problems and that he intended to try and land at the nearest airport.

It was impossible to independently confirm whether technical problems were to blame, and no other Egyptian official repeated the claim on Saturday.

In a statement on its website, Metrojet said the A321-200 aircraft was in good shape and that the pilot was experienced. It identified the captain as Valery Nemov and said he had 12,000 hours of flying experience, including 3,860 in A321s.

Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said officials from Moscow and Cairo were in touch over the incident. The Egyptian officials, he said, had not confirmed the claim by Islamic State militants who said they "brought down a Russian plane over Sinai state with more than 220 Russian crusaders on board." The militant group did not provide any evidence to back up its claim.

"Based on our contacts with the Egyptian side, the information that the airplane was shot down must not be considered reliable," Sokolov said, according to a report by the Interfax news agency.

An English-language statement issued by the office of Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi spoke of Russian leader Vladimir Putin commending the efforts made by authorities in Egypt "to uncover the circumstances surrounding the incident."

Militants in northern Sinai have not to date shot down commercial airliners or fighter jets. There have been media reports that they have acquired Russian shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft missiles.
But these types of missiles can only be effective against low-flying aircraft or helicopters. The Russian airliner was cruising at 31,000 feet when it lost contact with air traffic controllers, according to Egyptian aviation officials.

In January 2014, Sinai-based militants claimed to have shot down a military helicopter; Egyptian officials at the time acknowledged the helicopter had crashed, but gave no reason.

But two major European airlines - Germany's Lufthansa and Air France - were not taking any chances. Both announced Saturday they would immediately stop flying over Egypt's Sinai Peninsula for safety reasons until the cause of the crash was determined. Their aircraft would take alternate routes to reach destinations in the region.

Spokeswomen for the airlines spoke anonymously in line with their respective companies' regulations.

Egypt's foreign minister, Sameh Shukri, warned "foreign" countries that he did not identify against taking measures that reflect speculations on the cause of the crash. "That will impact the Egyptian economy and lead to damages. These nations must consider this as well as their relations with Egypt," he said.

Friends and relatives of the crash victims were gathering Saturday at a hotel near St. Petersburg's Pulkovo airport. Psychologists were meeting with them in a large conference room off the lobby and police kept journalists away. Some left the room occasionally, looking drawn with tear-stained faces.

Yulia Zaitseva was one of them. She said her friends, newlyweds Elena Rodina and Alexander Krotov, were on the flight. Both were 33. Zaitseva said Rodina, her friend for 20 years, "really wanted to go to Egypt, though I told her, 'Why the hell do you want to go to Egypt?'"

"She was a very good friend who was ready to give everything to other people. To lose such a friend is like having your hand cut off," Zaitseva said, adding that Rodina's parents feel "like their lives are over."

Russian airlines became infamous for poor safety in the early years following the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, which caused severe financial troubles and regulatory disorder. Although accidents have diminished in recent years, crashes persist, many of them blamed on human error.

According to Russian news agencies, the flight was chartered by the St. Petersburg-based Brisco tour company. The plane was made in 1997 and has since 2012 been operated by Metrojet.

Officers from Russia's top investigative body raided the offices of Metrojet and Brisco on Saturday, searching the premises and questioning employees. Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said agents also took samples of fuel from the airport in the Russian city of Samara where the plane stopped Friday before heading to Sharm el-Sheikh, where it had overnighted.

Roughly three million Russian tourists, or nearly a third of all visitors in 2014, come to Egypt every year, mostly to Red Sea resorts in Sinai or in mainland Egypt.

"It is too premature to detect the impact this will have on tourism. We need to know what happened first," Tourism Ministry spokeswoman Rasha Azazi told The Associated Press.

There was no sign of anything unusual at Sharm el-Sheikh's airport just hours after news of the disaster broke. Hundreds of vacationers, mostly from Europe and the Middle East, were arriving and departing. Flights in the afternoon were leaving at the rate of four to five per hour, with lines for international check-in spilling out the main gates.

Pavel Moroz, a 30-year-old engineer from Moscow, arrived in Sharm el-Sheikh on Saturday afternoon on a Metrojet flight. He plans to stay for a week to take a scuba diving course.

"We heard the news a few hours before leaving and thought for a bit about canceling our trip, but then decided to go anyway and everything was fine," he said as he left the airport.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 02 Nov 2015 10:14

This is from 8chan.

https://archive.today/ChJaF/f49393daa51 ... 9419da.png