Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Nov 2015 07:44

Folks,

Might get a chance to address senior triservice offrs (who're taking a course) on aspects of corporate-ish strategy as relevant to the armed forces next month. Any examples I can use, or Qs I should ask - do lemme know. TIA.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 08:48

Jihadi attack on Army camp in J&k.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 25 Nov 2015 12:34

Jhujar wrote:http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 145628.ece
Third Death During Army War Games: Lt Colonel Dies of Cardiac Arrest

NEW DELHI: In a tragic incident, a Lieutenant Colonel of the Indian Army, an expert in handling ammunition, died due of a cardiac arrest while participating in a military training exercise in the desert of Pokhran in Rajasthan. Incidentally, this is third loss of life in the Army during the military exercise within a month.According to defence officials, 39-year-old Ordnance Corps Officer Lt Colonel Pankaj Sharma was to take part in an ongoing military exercise when he suffered a cardiac arrest and passed away on Monday. The Army is making arrangements to airlift his mortal remains to his hometown for last rites. The officer, hailing from Dehradun is survived by his wife, Avantika and a 12-year-old son, defence officials said.“Sharma was a sincere and mature officer and was an expert at handling ammunition,” an officer who served with him, said. Sharma was posted at Secunderabad from where he had come for the military exercise. Before that, he was posted near Lalgarh in Bikaner.Nearly a month ago, a senior Colonel, Vishnu Prasad, 40, died of suspected swine flu at a forward location in the border area. Days before Colonel Prasad’s death, Major Dhruv Yadav, 32, lost his life in an explosion during a firing exercise there.

Wasn't Major Dhruv Yadav died a few months back on an accident involving an Arjun?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 25 Nov 2015 12:42

RoyG wrote:Jihadi attack on Army camp in J&k.

Terrorists have attacked the Tangdhar army camp, 1 army jawaan (one reports say a JCO) has attained veergati.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 25 Nov 2015 13:49

Picklu wrote:...

Wasn't Major Dhruv Yadav died a few months back on an accident involving an Arjun?

I think it was part of the same exercise.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Nov 2015 16:36

Old but Gold - "Yuvak se yodha tak" - The Making of a Maratha Soldier

I had the VCD with me ever since a group of us on BRF set up a page for the MLI regimental center in Belgaum (long before Indian armed forces got their own web pages)

Something made me go back and extract the video recently and I found that the CD was corrupt - and I lost about 1-2 minutes of video. But most of it is there - 47 minutes and it is a great video starting from bewildered young men walking into the center to their graduation. I enjoyed watching it again after a decade and since the bandwidth is now available I uploaded it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpJ8M62mVnQ

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 25 Nov 2015 16:43

Hari Seldon wrote:Folks,

Might get a chance to address senior triservice offrs (who're taking a course) on aspects of corporate-ish strategy as relevant to the armed forces next month. Any examples I can use, or Qs I should ask - do lemme know. TIA.

Qn - Thoughts on "Buy Desi" and Inclusion of 'Buy desi and its benefits' in NDA curriculum.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 25 Nov 2015 16:49

Shivavare,
Kindly consider setting up a dailymotion account, especially for the non-youtube accessing parts of the world. Your videos would help in their enlightenment.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Nov 2015 18:47

K Mehta wrote:Shivavare,
Kindly consider setting up a dailymotion account, especially for the non-youtube accessing parts of the world. Your videos would help in their enlightenment.

Certainly will.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 Nov 2015 07:19

Some recent op details to warm the cockles of our hearts

1. GR unit posted on LOC - A JCO was shot in the head by a sniper. CO calls up BDE Cmdr and tells him 'I'm going in sir'. BDE Cmdr - 'I am travelling, I did not get your message. Best of luck'. Unit launches an attack. 37 Paki casualties. Happened a few months ago. As expected , complete peace and quiet in the Area of Responoability of said unit now.

2. Bachelor Cmdr Arty of a Div posted on LOC gets the following order from his new GOC ' M (common Mallu name), at so and so day and time I want you to open up with every thing you have but for exactly 3 minutes' ie every single gun in the Div would fire in intense fire mode for 3 mins. Every battery will already have targets (SOP). M is ecstatic ! Calls up his 3/4 COs and conveys the order. When all is set GOC gives order and every gun fires. Exactly 3 mins later GOC orders Cease Fire. For the rest of the GOC's tenure, complete peace resigned.

Lots of stories like this some of which have been narrated here.

I call this 'good communication'. We are merely speaking in the language they understand. When we do so the message is always understood. Simples

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Nov 2015 07:24

>> I call this 'good communication'. We are merely speaking in the language they understand. When we do so the message is always understood.

nicely put. as we know good communication is the secret to all stable relationships.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Nov 2015 07:26

Akshay Kapoor wrote:I call this 'good communication'. We are merely speaking in the language they understand. When we do so the message is always understood. Simples

Heartening to hear and these seem to be corroborated by some news reports that slip into what passes off for newspapers in Pakiland, about "scores of troops martyred".

But it seems that while they understand the message, their primitive brains are refusing to learn. That is why we see them trying the same shenanigans again and again. They key is to put relentless and sustained pressure till the message sinks in. Howsoever, long it takes.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Nov 2015 07:40

but kashi, good communication is a continuous process, as any shrink would tell you. the message has to be repeated often enough for it to sink in.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 Nov 2015 07:56

These are local instances and don't get filtered to Pak opinion makers in general so they don't see this as a strategic response. But on a tactical level it's a fact that whichever unit responds strongly is not tested again. All comes down to individual commanders. It's a fact that current govt is much more open to commanders exercising initiative. But even in the stifling situation earlier some commanders did have the guts to do the right thing.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 Nov 2015 07:57

Agree Rahul

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 Nov 2015 07:59

Kashi please share some of the 'scores martyred' links from the other side.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Nov 2015 08:12

Rahul M wrote:but kashi, good communication is a continuous process, as any shrink would tell you. the message has to be repeated often enough for it to sink in.

Absolutely agree!!

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Kashi please share some of the 'scores martyred' links from the other side.

There was one newspaper report posted recently in the older STFUP thread about "many troops martyred" and I even commented on that aspect slipping past ISPR. I'll see if I can find it again.

But as you pointed out, the LoC and the IB seem to have quietened in the past month or so. Your posts explain why. Do keep them coming, very heartening for jingoes like me!!

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Nov 2015 08:22

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Some recent op details to warm the cockles of our hearts

1. GR unit posted on LOC - A JCO was shot in the head by a sniper. CO calls up BDE Cmdr and tells him 'I'm going in sir'. BDE Cmdr - 'I am travelling, I did not get your message. Best of luck'. Unit launches an attack. 37 Paki casualties. Happened a few months ago. As expected , complete peace and quiet in the Area of Responoability of said unit now.

2. Bachelor Cmdr Arty of a Div posted on LOC gets the following order from his new GOC ' M (common Mallu name), at so and so day and time I want you to open up with every thing you have but for exactly 3 minutes' ie every single gun in the Div would fire in intense fire mode for 3 mins. Every battery will already have targets (SOP). M is ecstatic ! Calls up his 3/4 COs and conveys the order. When all is set GOC gives order and every gun fires. Exactly 3 mins later GOC orders Cease Fire. For the rest of the GOC's tenure, complete peace resigned.

Lots of stories like this some of which have been narrated here.

I call this 'good communication'. We are merely speaking in the language they understand. When we do so the message is always understood. Simples

Feeling orgasmic just reading this!!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Nov 2015 08:37

Akshay Kapoor - nice. Thanks

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 26 Nov 2015 08:47

Akshay Kapoor wrote:2. Bachelor Cmdr Arty of a Div posted on LOC gets the following order from his new GOC ' M (common Mallu name), at so and so day and time I want you to open up with every thing you have but for exactly 3 minutes' ie every single gun in the Div would fire in intense fire mode for 3 mins. Every battery will already have targets (SOP). M is ecstatic ! Calls up his 3/4 COs and conveys the order. When all is set GOC gives order and every gun fires. Exactly 3 mins later GOC orders Cease Fire. For the rest of the GOC's tenure, complete peace resigned.

Battery/Battalion Cmdr/Brigade Cmdr?

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 26 Nov 2015 08:51

Hopefully we are shelling them as well, just shooting isn't the same anymore. My condolonces on the death of the JCO though. It's 2015, pakistan has no reason to exist.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 Nov 2015 09:04

C Arty aka Commander Arty aka Commander Arty Brigade (bachelor Mallu with name of M) of the DIvision. I only mentioned batteries because targets are usually registered at battery level.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 26 Nov 2015 09:06

Arty, Armd, Engrs have regiments. Inf has battalions

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 26 Nov 2015 09:20

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Arty, Armd, Engrs have regiments. Inf has battalions

I know. I asked because I couldn't figure out the 'Bachelor' bit in the title. But I get what you mean now.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 26 Nov 2015 13:22

What are we talking about here? 120 mm mortars?

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Some recent op details to warm the cockles of our hearts

1. GR unit posted on LOC - A JCO was shot in the head by a sniper. CO calls up BDE Cmdr and tells him 'I'm going in sir'. BDE Cmdr - 'I am travelling, I did not get your message. Best of luck'. Unit launches an attack. 37 Paki casualties. Happened a few months ago. As expected , complete peace and quiet in the Area of Responoability of said unit now.

2. Bachelor Cmdr Arty of a Div posted on LOC gets the following order from his new GOC ' M (common Mallu name), at so and so day and time I want you to open up with every thing you have but for exactly 3 minutes' ie every single gun in the Div would fire in intense fire mode for 3 mins. Every battery will already have targets (SOP). M is ecstatic ! Calls up his 3/4 COs and conveys the order. When all is set GOC gives order and every gun fires. Exactly 3 mins later GOC orders Cease Fire. For the rest of the GOC's tenure, complete peace resigned.

Lots of stories like this some of which have been narrated here.

I call this 'good communication'. We are merely speaking in the language they understand. When we do so the message is always understood. Simples

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Nov 2015 13:44

120mm mortars? He's talking about the whole Brigade....that's 105mm and 130mm

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 26 Nov 2015 13:52

rohitvats wrote:120mm mortars? He's talking about the whole Brigade....that's 105mm and 130mm

I though the artillery had fallen silent since the 'ceasefire' in 2003, with only small arms and mortar fire being exchanged. I'm surprised it wasn't reported in the media. I suppose by limiting to it to 3 minutes (albeit of very high volume fire), they designed it to be a low profile, high impact action.

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 26 Nov 2015 15:13

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Some recent op details to warm the cockles of our hearts

1. GR unit posted on LOC - A JCO was shot in the head by a sniper. CO calls up BDE Cmdr and tells him 'I'm going in sir'. BDE Cmdr - 'I am travelling, I did not get your message. Best of luck'. Unit launches an attack. 37 Paki casualties. Happened a few months ago. As expected , complete peace and quiet in the Area of Responoability of said unit now.

2. Bachelor Cmdr Arty of a Div posted on LOC gets the following order from his new GOC ' M (common Mallu name), at so and so day and time I want you to open up with every thing you have but for exactly 3 minutes' ie every single gun in the Div would fire in intense fire mode for 3 mins. Every battery will already have targets (SOP). M is ecstatic ! Calls up his 3/4 COs and conveys the order. When all is set GOC gives order and every gun fires. Exactly 3 mins later GOC orders Cease Fire. For the rest of the GOC's tenure, complete peace resigned.

Lots of stories like this some of which have been narrated here.

I call this 'good communication'. We are merely speaking in the language they understand. When we do so the message is always understood. Simples

Akshay Kapoor-jee, May you family flourish, may you name be heard for hundreds of years. I cant even explain what happiness this SDRE mumbaikar gets when he hears about paki blood be spilled on the Border. Especially on this very emotional day.
Kick in the arse is what pakis understand. Its a cultural thing. The subservient Congressi chapprassi never understood this as they identify more with pakees than indians. But things are different now. And how....

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 28 Nov 2015 18:36

Link to Tweet

Fellow Tweeple, can you help spread the word out here?

Harpreet ‏@CestMoiz
Troops Dip Into Their Pockets to Fight J and K Terror - The New Indian Express http://bit.ly/1QBlFKD via @NewIndianXpress
A sad state..

Harpreet ‏@CestMoiz
2/n
Wonder how many of us are aware that India is actually a leading exporter of body armour in the world?

Harpreet ‏@CestMoiz
3/n
Bulletproof jackets and helmets, built to very exacting requirements are manufactured INSIDE India and exported to many countries.

Harpreet ‏@CestMoiz
4/n
Customers for Kevlar vests / bulletproof helmets made in India include armies of France, Germany, Britain and Spain!

5/n
200+ forces (police / military) in 50+ countries source personal ballistic protection equipment from India!
Nice, no?

6/n
These also include police forces in the US and Japan.
But the Indian soldier / policeman fighting terrorists every single day, does ..

7/n
.. so without the benefit of the same. Wonder how many MN Rais / Santosh Mahadiks would have been alive today had the nation deemed ..

8/n
..their lives worthy enough for protection by light bulletproofs. Those who still remember, are observing the anniversary of martyrdom..

9/n
.. of Hav Gajendra Singh Bisht today. Might he not have been around amongst his loved ones today, celebrating ..

10/n
.. the anniversary of award of his Gallantry Medal with him, instead of marking this as a day of mourning the Ashok Chakra awardee?

11/n
Bottomline - Huge gizmos might sound sexy, but a humble kevlar vest MADE IN INDIA, might be the single most important thing that ..

12/12
.. may end up giving an upper hand to the grunts involved in everyday dance of life and death with those that want to break us apart.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Nov 2015 20:27

^^ Is there a way to crowdsource kevlar for the troops on the frontline? Just thinking aloud.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Nov 2015 20:35

no. Jagan RB et al tried it during the quikclot thingy and it ended up as a fiasco as the army cant accept any donations etc directly.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Nov 2015 20:47

rohitvats wrote:120mm mortars? He's talking about the whole Brigade....that's 105mm and 130mm

may be even some modded 155mm ? I distinctly remember seeing a 'soltam pioneers' amongst a div's arty bde.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 28 Nov 2015 22:30

I remember the quick clot thing.
One way is to make a LOT of noise on SM, hoping the MSM picks it up. Emotional issues to do with army do make for a good news report.
I guess that's the best we can do. A lot of worthies too are active on Twitter, including PM and RM. May not be a tall order to get their attention if sufficient ppl talk about it

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2015 10:04

Making noise on SM will only get short-term attention and loud promises of donation. People's attention spans are small and most are too wrapped up in their own lives to care about others on a long term basis. In fact the only person who held on for years, pursued the matter thru various command HQs, regimental centre staff and ministry and eventually delivered the goods is/was a lurker on BRF and I doubt more than 2-3 BRFites know his name or who he is. Anyways 99.99% of the folks would not proceed beyond writing a check - convenience trumps charity. But that's not enough. IA has its own babudom and corruption with even certain gallantry medal winning young officers on the take. Hardly the stuff we want to hear but that is reality. Anyways for life saving and life critical stuff, it's best not to donate anything to the forces in material terms. If you really want to, write a check to the IA Welfare fund - every Indian consulate overseas is also authorized to accept those donations.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Nov 2015 13:05

Raja Bose wrote:Making noise on SM will only get short-term attention and loud promises of donation. People's attention spans are small and most are too wrapped up in their own lives to care about others on a long term basis. In fact the only person who held on for years, pursued the matter thru various command HQs, regimental centre staff and ministry and eventually delivered the goods is/was a lurker on BRF and I doubt more than 2-3 BRFites know his name or who he is. Anyways 99.99% of the folks would not proceed beyond writing a check - convenience trumps charity. But that's not enough. IA has its own babudom and corruption with even certain gallantry medal winning young officers on the take. Hardly the stuff we want to hear but that is reality. Anyways for life saving and life critical stuff, it's best not to donate anything to the forces in material terms. If you really want to, write a check to the IA Welfare fund - every Indian consulate overseas is also authorized to accept those donations.

Are you referring to the ketchup colonels?

I think the best thing to do would be to tweet Manohar Parrikar if he is on twitter. He understands these issues and can force the pace of acquisitions for these items.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 30 Nov 2015 13:08

Martin Bakerji,

I am only relaying what happened. All credit goes to the CO of the Gorkha unit, his Bde Cmdr for (1) and , the GOC and his Arty Bde Cmdr and Arty Bde COs for (2) . There was a question earlier about the unit in (1). I was told its a GR (Gorkha Rifles) unit. Will reconfirm.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 30 Nov 2015 13:18

Karan,

I find the 'ketchup col' thing used in a general sense offensive. If you have evidence then please share it. The Army and other armed forces operate under very difficult (and worsening) conditions (largely imposed by govt and the apartheid by the babus) and before making such general comments do get specific cases and evidence.

I can share with you at least 10 specific cases which will make your hair stand up. Two are to do with Mulayam Singh Yadav, one with an ex Pune Police Commissioner, one with a Ad Secy MoD, one with an ex DG Police UP, one a current Divisonal Commissioner who was a DM when the issue happened, one with 2 jawans from the Mahar Regt, one with a NCO from the Rajput Regt who is I Grading at Commando Course and IMTRAT (Bhutan), a couple from very recent COs of infantry and armd. Each is shocking. My stomach churns even to think about them.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Nov 2015 13:40

Akshay,

There are several reports of the incidents. Before getting offended kindly look into the issue. I don't know though whether Raja was referring to this/these chaps but another bunch.

This:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/trut ... 03580.html
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Reposito ... ID=Ar01500
http://www.thehindu.com/2004/05/13/stor ... 720100.htm

My point was that there are gents who engaged in such antics and probably a small group who decided they could game the system. Then there is the infamous flat issue. No point in denying such folks exist even though they are a very small portion of the total in a large system. We have a million strong Army. People forget how large that really is. 10Lakh+ people, and such stuff is inevitable to a degree.

Anyways, RB can detail which individuals he was referring to. I guessed he was referring to these chaps but I could be mistaken.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Dec 2015 06:24

Karan M wrote: Are you referring to the ketchup colonels?

I think the best thing to do would be to tweet Manohar Parrikar if he is on twitter. He understands these issues and can force the pace of acquisitions for these items.

No I am not referring to them. I am referring to certain IA folks I had to deal with directly in connection with the donation. I bet they are a very tiny portion of the entire IA coz I know many many more IA personnel who are not like that but these small crate of bad apples can stink up the joint. What surprised me was some of them were folks who had won gallantry awards in J&K/NE and seen some serious action, not just some desk bound support staff fellow.

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » 02 Dec 2015 07:33

I once met an officer who sustained grievous burn injuries in the 1971 war in a tank battle. He lived to bail out of his burning tank, and was honourably discharged thereafter. You could still see the terrible scars he bore twenty years after the fact. Post-recovery this officer was given an officer's post in a civilian Government organization, where he made so much money and such a nuisance of himself that, following multiple complaints, he was dismissed from service. How does one balance his courage and patriotism on the one hand against the venality and corruption he displayed later in life? There really is no black and white, just shades of grey.