Pathankot AirForce base under attack

[ShauryaT]

The way I am reading the conflicting reports. I think there were 5 terrorists only. 4 were pinned down and eliminated in the area early morning soon after contact at 3.30 am. One managed to slip that area and hide in the base, sneaking out and engaging periodically. This last one was pinned sometime after 3 PM today.

Does it sound correct?

[member_23370]

So are the ops over or still going on? Is the delay because we have to take this bastaurd alive? Why? Just kill him and retaliate at PA/PAF base.

[chetak]

{quote="shiv"}https://twitter.com/IndianExpress/statu ... 7772938240
{quote}Pathankot attack: Blue beacon atop SP’s hijacked SUV let terrorists speed past checkposts{/quote}

The blue beacon atop the Mahindra XUV of Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh helped the terrorists, who hijacked the vehicle, get past several police checkposts on Friday. It is suspected that the same lot of terrorists entered the Pathankot airbase because the SUV was found abandoned a little over 500 metres away. - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... puf{/quote}

Kejriwal was correct about VIP cars with beacons

In this case isn't the beacon there because it was a police vehicle and not a VIP vehicle? Is a SP a VIP?

They probably needed better inter-departmental communication (between police and base security) about stolen police vehicle.

An SP is not a VIP in the true sense but he has a beacon for valid official reasons and is permitted by law.

[d_berwal]

it is so much fun to watch how paid prostitute's reacts to a post in an INTERNET forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one can actually seee PANI me KITNA DOODH hai !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shiv]

The costs on either side are a part of objective reality (no pun intended), unlike the objectives. One could also argue quite convincingly I think, that the Pakistan objective is to simply disrupt the peace, and to impose more costs on India in process than are levied on Pakistan. So that is the question - in the Pathankot terrorist incident, without considering possible future actions, who so far has paid the higher cost?

Also to note: ending terrorism is not a matter of thwarting the terrorists' objectives. Ending terrorism requires imposing more costs on the terrorists' side than they can sustain.

Yes, but one on one costs based on one terror attack that receives so much media attention would be a biased metric. Need to go to SATP and see overall statistics of terrorists killed versus security men killed if that is a metric of costs.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... alties.htm
Figures from 1998 to 2015
Terrorist killed: 22,966
Security personnel killed: 6,186

This is nothing to gloat about but it is the same metric that you were talking about

One way to look at it, a viewpoint that I am veering around to nowadays, is that this Utopian "peace" that we hanker for is mythical. There will never be peace, nor must we expect it, although we are allowed to desire it. Conflict will be continuous and the aim is to stay ahead and not think that there will be an end.

[Avinash R]

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/exc ... 061330.ece

tell me what shrine did this person visit? please all of you people let me know what PUNJABI/ SHIK shrine is in that area that is being talked about?

Police said the cop and his friends who had gone to pay obeisance at a religious place called Narot Jaimal Singh located on the Jammu-Pathankot national highway were kidnapped at gunpoint.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kidn ... 60048.html

[shiv]

So are the ops over or still going on? Is the delay because we have to take this bastaurd alive? Why? Just kill him and retaliate at PA/PAF base.

We will not know till combing is complete and that will be after daybreak tomorrow.

[Shreeman]

CNN IBN is repeatedly broadcasting that the pigs were INSIDE the airbase for 12 hours before the first contact took place and the security forces were unaware of this fact.

er what were they doing for 12 hours? I mean I know they were phoning their mummies an all, but how come not a single aircraft or radar touched by so much as a fart?

I suspect that CNN IBN is doing what media do - getting eyeballs without knowing or showing that there is an inner perimeter which is securely guarded and an outer zone that is a buffer. These men were in that buffer zone . If they were inside the inner perimeter they would have had no trouble creating mayhem because they would then be in the base proper. That inner perimeter is clearly seen on Google earth.

shiv,

It stands to reason, purely by the low journalistic and reporting standards, that the timeline may be nothing like it has been reported. Everyone, the government included, may be pushing their own political perspective, for good, bad, or biased reasons. Unlike previous events, this one happened where few eyes were watching. The event does not appear to be even over yet. What troubles resulted from this are just as unknown as the number that gave their lives or under what circumstances defending.

We accept nothing worse happened, because nothing worse was reported, yet. Or better, for that matter. The geography is not atlantic and pacific. The protection is what it is, not unsurpassable. *Something* bad, up an escalation ladder, happened. Counts and costs are no longer plausibly computable.

Now for returning the favor. An at-par response is impossible. Institutions are too moth eaten for that. Assymetric response is also not acceptable to those capable of ordering it. In all probability, unheard of and hidden response apart, there will just be a few noise of the befitting nature made.

[chetak]

So are the ops over or still going on? Is the delay because we have to take this bastaurd alive? Why? Just kill him and retaliate at PA/PAF base.

highly unlikely that he will let himself be taken alive.

He has instructions as a fidayeen to draw out this encounter for as long as possible for the publicity value.

[Altair]

I believe Pathankot airbase was chosen as a target because they had help from inside. Plain and simple. Let us not be naive that our armed forces are super beings who can never do wrong. A siege like this on a huge military base needs weeks of planning not days. This attack was activated after Modi visit. Executed in 7 days flat. This also means that there are various attack plans on India backed by various sleeper cells and supported by numerous traitors in sensitive positions.

[shiv]

if you have a buffer, it is best to know that the buffer has been penetrated as quickly as possible and certainly not after a gap of 12 hours.

Well it is CNN IBN and all conclusions are based on what they say. If the Air Force or MoD have said something we don't know about it. At least I don't. Do you?

The media consistently take the position that they make a wild inaccurate guess and then sanctimoniously say it is for the nation's good and if the government denies they will claim the government is lying because it wants to save face. So I would be cautious about taking media statements at face value on their own.

[chetak]

just stop the export of livestock from India to pakistan. That will be a good start to eff them as prices will rise to unaffordable levels for a lot of paki people.

[d_berwal]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kidn ... 60048.html

Narot Jaimal Singh!!! what is this?

copy paste or you can shed some knowledge on this Narot Jaimal Singh shrine?

[KLNMurthy]

I don't understand the urgency for senior government officials to jump in and declare that pathankot attack won't be allowed to interrupt the dialogue process, or to throw out cliches about befitting reply. Rajnath singh is implying that the ending of the terrorists' lives and the repulsing of the attack was itself the befitting reply. That is just verbal jugglery to cover up the fact that we are not going to retaliate. Modi talking about "enemies of humanity " which is a grandiose and general term. All of it, I suspect designed to convey reassurance to Pakistan and also to protect the PR gains from the birthday visit.

What is wrong with taking a more non-committal attitude? Just saying, "it is too soon to say anything at this point, our focus is on the loss of precious military lives." Keep the pakis and the world guessing for a while.

[chetak]

I believe Pathankot airbase was chosen as a target because they had help from inside. Plain and simple. Let us not be naive that our armed forces are super beings who can never do wrong. A siege like this on a huge military base needs weeks of planning not days. This attack was activated after Modi visit. Executed in 7 days flat. This also means that there are various attack plans on India backed by various sleeper cells and supported by numerous traitors in sensitive positions.

there are faithful present in almost every military base in India, usually engaged in menial tasks. They diligently monitor routine household conversations, gossip and community inputs which give a fairly accurate picture of the goings on in any base, movements and events.

very easy to tap such sources for anyone keen to do so.

[A_Gupta]

Yes, but one on one costs based on one terror attack that receives so much media attention would be a biased metric. Need to go to SATP and see overall statistics of terrorists killed versus security men killed if that is a metric of costs.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... alties.htm
Figures from 1998 to 2015
Terrorist killed: 22,966
Security personnel killed: 6,186

This is nothing to gloat about but it is the same metric that you were talking about

Thanks, by that metric, it suggests from the Pakistani POV, the Gurdaspur & Pathankot attacks were much more effective than the long-term average. Which suggests they will try to repeat it.

[Avinash R]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kidn ... 60048.html

Narot Jaimal Singh!!! what is this?

copy paste or you can shed some knowledge on this Narot Jaimal Singh shrine?

India Today reporter Manjeet Sehgal claims it a religious shrine

He is on twitter https://twitter.com/manjeet_sehgal

If you have questions he can contacted there.

[chetak]

if you have a buffer, it is best to know that the buffer has been penetrated as quickly as possible and certainly not after a gap of 12 hours.

Well it is CNN IBN and all conclusions are based on what they say. If the Air Force or MoD have said something we don't know about it. At least I don't. Do you?

The media consistently take the position that they make a wild inaccurate guess and then sanctimoniously say it is for the nation's good and if the government denies they will claim the government is lying because it wants to save face. So I would be cautious about taking media statements at face value on their own.

shiv, saw your unedited post. I understand where you are coming from. I appreciate your sentiments as indeed I support them but at the same time this entire episode has all the hallmarks of a really effed up operation as well as too many cooks spoiling the broth type of scene.

the punjab police has no business playing such a prominent role in the proceedings, especially, when the IA, IAF and NSG are already in the picture unless their hands are in some way dirty and compromised due to high level involvement in drug trafficking right from the political bosses downwards.

The role of the "kidnapped" SP is really mystifying and hugely suspicious.

[d_berwal]

If you have questions he can contacted there.

dear if you have any thing original... do continue... what is the point in saying HE SAID THAT SO I AM SAYING... but TRUTH i dont know!!!!!!!!!!

[shiv]

Regarding CNN-IBN's allegation that the terrorists were in the air base for 12 hours - it appears that they abandoned the car around midnight before the 3 AM attack. Phone call to mommy was around that time and heard by the man whose thrat was nonfatally slit
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... heckposts/

The SUV then went past the checkpost on Katloh bridge. It travelled another 30 km to reach the toll plaza on the Gurdaspur-Pathankot highway between 11.30 pm and midnight, where it was again waved through because of the blue beacon.

The vehicle was found abandoned in Akalgarh village, a little over 500 metres from the airbase. The terrorists tried to slit Verma’s throat but he pretended to be dead and survived. He is undergoing treatment at a hospital in Pathankot.

Sources said that as per Verma’s account, the terrorists used a mobile phone to stay in touch probably with their handlers or accomplices. A police officer said there were four terrorists and one of them also made a call to Pakistan to his “mother” from Verma’s mobile phone, addressing her as “Ammi Jaan” and speaking to her for a while.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... mQl8P.dpuf

Either the terrorists were in the area for just 3 hours before the attack, or they were there 27 hours before if I have erred in my dates. But the call to mommy was just before the attack and the throat slitting was just before the attack. CNN IBN is lying. Why am I not surprised?

[Avinash R]

@d_berwal, So what do you want me to do. Join UndieTV and report live from outside the base?

[shiv]

Thanks, by that metric, it suggests from the Pakistani POV, the Gurdaspur & Pathankot attacks were much more effective than the long-term average. Which suggests they will try to repeat it.

I think we are heading into OT territory here. If Pakistan was going by metrics they should have stopped attacking long ago as the metrics gradually went against them. Even now the metrics do not show the incident numbers to be high.

But this discussion is meaningless because the reasons are all well known. Pakistan has no intention of stopping attacks. The metrics have changed because of increased vigilance and that completed border fence. Ant I think it was Gen Ata Hasnain who pointed out that with Kashmir being difficult to enter they are now trying to cross IB in Punjab rather than LOC in J&K. The level of defences against infiltration in Punjab are not the same as J7K and that will have to change

[d_berwal]

@d_berwal, So what do you want me to do. Join UndieTV and report live from outside the base?

hate to say your line is in line with UndieTV.... thay want you to do that and u do.............

[Avinash R]

@d_berwal, So what do you want me to do. Join UndieTV and report live from outside the base?

hate to say your line is in line with UndieTV.... thay want you to do that and u do.............

Are you drunk?

[A_Gupta]

Thanks, by that metric, it suggests from the Pakistani POV, the Gurdaspur & Pathankot attacks were much more effective than the long-term average. Which suggests they will try to repeat it.

I think we are heading into OT territory here. If Pakistan was going by metrics they should have stopped attacking long ago as the metrics gradually went against them. Even now the metrics do not show the incident numbers to be high.

But this discussion is meaningless because the reasons are all well known. Pakistan has no intention of stopping attacks. The metrics have changed because of increased vigilance and that completed border fence. Ant I think it was Gen Ata Hasnain who pointed out that with Kashmir being difficult to enter they are now trying to cross IB in Punjab rather than LOC in J&K. The level of defences against infiltration in Punjab are not the same as J7K and that will have to change

Well, my original question about current costs was answered; and it does not bode well for India, unless there are definite subsequent costs to Pakistan.

[chetak]

Regarding CNN-IBN's allegation that the terrorists were in the air base for 12 hours - it appears that they abandoned the car around midnight before the 3 AM attack. Phone call to mommy was around that time and heard by the man whose thrat was nonfatally slit
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... heckposts/

The SUV then went past the checkpost on Katloh bridge. It travelled another 30 km to reach the toll plaza on the Gurdaspur-Pathankot highway between 11.30 pm and midnight, where it was again waved through because of the blue beacon.

The vehicle was found abandoned in Akalgarh village, a little over 500 metres from the airbase. The terrorists tried to slit Verma’s throat but he pretended to be dead and survived. He is undergoing treatment at a hospital in Pathankot.

Sources said that as per Verma’s account, the terrorists used a mobile phone to stay in touch probably with their handlers or accomplices. A police officer said there were four terrorists and one of them also made a call to Pakistan to his “mother” from Verma’s mobile phone, addressing her as “Ammi Jaan” and speaking to her for a while.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... mQl8P.dpuf

Either the terrorists were in the area for just 3 hours before the attack, or they were there 27 hours before if I have erred in my dates. But the call to mommy was just before the attack and the throat slitting was just before the attack. CNN IBN is lying. Why am I not surprised?

with so much confusion in numbers of the attackers, who is to say that the tourist who spoke to his "ammi jaan" entered the base??

we have to do the math from the time of the border crossing and tally the numbers from that point on.

things become unclear as such inputs are not confirmed and that 's why the reaction to the "kidnapped colorful SP" by Punjab Police authorities is so mystifying as well as suspicious. That guy is after all an SP level cop and that too at a time of heightened alert he has told his office folks that something has happened to him and he is disbelieved?? thereby loosing valuable time and maybe lives because of delayed actions??

[d_berwal]

hate to say your line is in line with UndieTV.... thay want you to do that and u do.............

Are you drunk?

hate to say your line is in line with UndieTV.... and they want you you to react a certain way and you are doing that!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[A_Gupta]

Quoting from Salwinder’s complaint, DSP Pathankot (Rural) Kuldeep Singh said, “Salwinder told us he was coming back from Talur village in his personal SUV after paying obeisance at a religious place… They reached a fuel station in Kolian village, Pathankot, around 1 am. Five persons signalled them to stop. Verma, who was driving, stopped the vehicle. The men were dressed in Army fatigues and were heavily armed. Salwinder said there is a blue beacon on his vehicle, which was switched off when they were asked to stop.” - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... 4RALt.dpuf

Talur/Taloor village is near Narot Jaimal Singh.

[chetak]

Regarding CNN-IBN's allegation that the terrorists were in the air base for 12 hours - it appears that they abandoned the car around midnight before the 3 AM attack. Phone call to mommy was around that time and heard by the man whose thrat was nonfatally slit
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... heckposts/

The SUV then went past the checkpost on Katloh bridge. It travelled another 30 km to reach the toll plaza on the Gurdaspur-Pathankot highway between 11.30 pm and midnight, where it was again waved through because of the blue beacon.

The vehicle was found abandoned in Akalgarh village, a little over 500 metres from the airbase. The terrorists tried to slit Verma’s throat but he pretended to be dead and survived. He is undergoing treatment at a hospital in Pathankot.

Sources said that as per Verma’s account, the terrorists used a mobile phone to stay in touch probably with their handlers or accomplices. A police officer said there were four terrorists and one of them also made a call to Pakistan to his “mother” from Verma’s mobile phone, addressing her as “Ammi Jaan” and speaking to her for a while.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... mQl8P.dpuf

Either the terrorists were in the area for just 3 hours before the attack, or they were there 27 hours before if I have erred in my dates. But the call to mommy was just before the attack and the throat slitting was just before the attack. CNN IBN is lying. Why am I not surprised?

re the throat slitting, would jehadis make such an obvious mistake just before entering the base, ie making sure that the victim was not dead or the throat not properly sliced to ensure certain death??, and yet they certainly took fatally good care of the taxi driver, no??

[Avinash R]

hate to say your line is in line with UndieTV.... and they want you you to react a certain way and you are doing that!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Keep speaking in riddles, that will help.

[KLNMurthy]

What were the pakis trying to achieve by attacking now?

To understand this, we have to think like a paki. They think in terms of subjugation of a conquered race or people. To them, Modi's birthday visit was a surrender, especially since it came after the crucial inclusion of cashmere in the comprehensive dialogue. Pakis are convinced that Modi tried to fight them, and suffered grievous injuries (militarily as well as with the intolerance propaganda and loss of Bihar) and decided to surrender.

The attack is a way of consolidating the surrender. If Modi really surrendered, then he will stay down even after receiving a couple of kicks after the surrender, kicks that are meant to verify and confirm his surrendered state. This objective the pakis have achieved, following the twin GOI declarations that "befitting reply " has already been given, and that this incident will not be allowed to interrupt the dialogue process.

Things like, did they blow up any aircraft, or the numerical "score" of worthless terrorist deaths versus precious Indian military personnel deaths, are all secondary to this main purpose.

So,

- is the Hindu fundamentalist government of Modi incapable of understanding pakithink OR
- did they understand it and in fact, surrender OR
- I have no idea what I am talking about?

[member_29190]

One thing to notice most of Pak attacks on India has been during Nov-Dec time of the year.

1971 war, attack on western border: December
Mumbai: November
Parliament attack: December
Pathonkot: December end.


Is there a know reason why PA likes war during winter?

I can think of Snow across the Kashmir mountains & water logged marsh? across Gujarat.

Any other reason?

Edit:

Another point. CT in me also notices the 7 year cycle. 2001, 2008,2015

[Ashokk]

Breaking news on TOI: Indian consulate in Afghan city Mazar-i-Sharif attacked, gunmen attempted to enter compound

[member_29190]

I think i find it really strange about people who advocate that retaliation to Pak will lead to a "larger war". I presume they means lots of defence personal & civilians will die.

Thousands of civilians & defence personals have died for no reason.

What will change if there is war? Atleast people will die for a reason.

[Aditya G]

This is a useful timeline on IE:

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -42-hours/

As per this NSG arrived only by Saturday 0900 and not the previous evening as reported.

7) Jan 2 [~ 9:00 AM]: NSG personnel arrive at the base. Four terrorists reportedly killed in the operation. Nearly 80% of the Air Force base sanitised

Also the terrorists drove for a good 30+ Kms to reach the target.

[deejay]

Breaking news on TOI: Indian consulate in Afghan city Mazar-i-Sharif attacked, gunmen attempted to enter compound

Shiite. The ante has been upped further if this is true. Those Mi 25s to Afghan AF have really hurt.

[Avinash R]

What were the pakis trying to achieve by attacking now?

Pakistaniyat 101

"Terror is an end in itself"

This line was from a book that Bakistan military uses to teach its ideology to new recruits. I cant remember the name of the book but it was republished by a delhi book house a few years back.

[chandrasekaran]

Narendra Modi government has to retaliate and OVERTLY at that. Some thing just doesn't add up - Modi's public behavior on this is very confusing - first "enemies of humanity" or then talks about Yoga I for one expected him to cancel all public functions and return to Delhi asap. Quite disappointed

[Aditya G]

This explains confusion regarding 5th terrorist. They blew up a building but could not locate the body

14) Jan 3 [~ 4:00 PM]: Building inside air base facing Akalgarh village destroyed by security forces. One terrorist was believed hiding there.

[SriKumar]

The way I am reading the conflicting reports. I think there were 5 terrorists only. 4 were pinned down and eliminated in the area early morning soon after contact at 3.30 am. One managed to slip that area and hide in the base, sneaking out and engaging periodically. This last one was pinned sometime after 3 PM today. Does it sound correct?

This is difficult to estimate. Given that the SP's SUV that was hijacked had 4 (or 5) hijackers per SP and Rajesh Verma, one would expect 4 (or 5) terrorists. Original reports said 4 terrorists and I found one news report that said 5 terrorists hijacked the SUV. However, this news report suggests that 4 terrorists have killed and there are 'atleast two more terrorists' still involved in a fire-fight with security forces.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/520 ... rists.html

It is therefore presumed (in my presumption) that terrorists from a source other than the original SUV hijacking have joined the operation. The official position, per this report, is that they wont know until the operation is over.
Someone can read the linked article and correct the above if they interpret it differently.