It feels good to hear the Chinese pig handlers squeal!jagga wrote:If Masood pig is killed - TSP Army cannot admit as stikes never happened!
If Masood pig is caught and secretly dragged to India - India will keep using this as a stick to beat Cheenis and expose them.
I hope one of above is true
Read below:
China accuses India of 'political gains' in seeking to ban Pak-based terrorist Masood Azhar
LeT terrorists were at forefront of the terrorist frontline.IndraD wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 84132.html
How India's surgical strikes created a rift between Lashkar terrorists, Pakistan army
The Pakistani military gave priority to its own soldiers - both dead and injured - who were the first to be evacuated. The LeT terrorists were reportedly allowed to do so only in the dark.
This second-hand treatment is said to have led to resentment among the LeT cadres.
Aditya G wrote:They also talk of Kransopol ammunition.asinh wrote:Now on India Today. Details of strike. HAHO assault too.
1. is it even is service today?
2. does it mean we fired 155mm arty?
I am skeptical on both accounts.
How India's surgical strikes created a rift between Lashkar terrorists, Pakistan army
Intelligence sources say the Lashkar cadre were apparently miffed as the military didn't allow them to remove bodies of their men from locations of the surgical strikes.
The surgical strikes by Indian Army para commandos in enemy-held territory across the Line of Control has not just rattled Pakistan but also seems to have created a rift between Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorists and their handlers in the Pakistani army.
Intelligence sources say the Lashkar cadre were apparently miffed as the military didn't allow them to remove bodies of their men from locations of the surgical strikes.
The Pakistani military gave priority to its own soldiers - both dead and injured - who were the first to be evacuated. The LeT terrorists were reportedly allowed to do so only in the dark.
This second-hand treatment is said to have led to resentment among the LeT cadres.
Earlier, terror leaders Hafiz Saeed and Syed Salahuddin had been shifted to an army camp in Lahore, as Islamabad is said to fear more retaliatory strikes from India. Pakistan Army commandos in plainclothes are providing them close security.
In fact, Pakistan Army has also shifted back the terror launch pads near the LoC by 7-8 km deep inside PoK.
Meanwhile, high-level sources say the surgical strike has ensured that the threshold of reaction from Pakistan has come down. If there is a big terror attack like the one in Mumbai on 26/11, there can be retaliation from India, the sources said.
"Pakistan now knows that the vicious circle has been broken. In the past, terror attacks took place after which India would break off talks and then, after a while, the talks would begin again."
"Now, Pakistan knows that there will be punishment (from India) if a big terror attack takes place," he added.
A senior official rejected the chances of a tactical nuclear strike by terrorists. "A nuclear attack by terrorists is unlikely. Even if they get their hands on such a weapon, it is also about delivery and more importantly, the codes and technical details are such that a terrorist would not be able to handle it," he said.
EXCERPT:
In the October 6 exclusive news report, Almeida said some in the civilian government complained at a top-secret meeting that they were being asked to do more to crack down on armed groups, yet whenever law-enforcement agencies took action "the security establishment ... worked behind the scenes to set the arrested free".
Insisting that the law should apply equally to all, the civilian government's representatives at the meeting gave warning that Pakistan risked international isolation if the security establishment did not take take the recommended course of action, according to the Dawn report.
Refer to gd bakshi article quoted on this thread as well.... It talks about use of krasnopol amn on paki positions before strike.ramana wrote:Aditya G wrote:
They also talk of Kransopol ammunition.
1. is it even is service today?
2. does it mean we fired 155mm arty?
I am skeptical on both accounts.
What exactly did they say?
The page fill sup with pop ups.
Its a mistranslation/psy-ops to keep calling it a flamethrower which is a banned weapon after Convention on Certain Weapons was signed.Austin wrote:Russian flamethrower ‘Shmel’ spearheaded surgical strikes
http://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_ ... kes_637715
Really? Even this bit?
Pakistan's response was smart? And here we the fools of BRF are busy ROFLing thinking that Bakis were stumbling from one mishap to another..In such situations, only the PM or the RM should make a terse and clear political statement and leave it at that. Political capital was already on the table. Now it is lost in the shrillness of election rhetoric. Pakistan’s smart response and our political frenzy have diluted the gains of this watershed SF operation.
Just because he says something you don't agree with does not mean you can simply drop his mil rank. Sorry, but that's aap-style ch****yapa. He did serve in the forces, at least give some respect to that. And this is BRF after all. You can/should still disagree, and stating one's earned rank does not diminish the disagreement.snahata wrote:simply being in the army is not a guarantee of intelligence and desh bhakti Mr Panag proves that . And no I am not going to call him by his title. Moron
There are many kids of impressionable age who not knowing anything about AAP sheningans (or access to BR like sites) will fall for this slightly concealed, biased and politically motivated tripe.snahata wrote:simply being in the army is not a guarantee of intelligence and desh bhakti Mr Panag proves that . And no I am not going to call him by his title. Moron
And your rant without any justification is a guarantee of your intelligence? I understand you disagree but please justify why you disagree with Gen Panag's point of view.snahata wrote:simply being in the army is not a guarantee of intelligence and desh bhakti Mr Panag proves that . And no I am not going to call him by his title. Moron
ks_sachin wrote:And your rant without any justification is a guarantee of your intelligence? I understand you disagree but please justify why you disagree with Gen Panag's point of view.
Gen. Panag proclaims Pak response as smart and claims that it led to the dilution of the impact of the surgical strikes. This is exactly what his leader Kejriwal was harping about, when asking for proof. So did Digvijaya.In such situations, only the PM or the RM should make a terse and clear political statement and leave it at that. Political capital was already on the table. Now it is lost in the shrillness of election rhetoric. Pakistan’s smart response and our political frenzy have diluted the gains of this watershed SF operation.
Now how is this different from what his party AAP and Congress and others have been ranting about? He laments that "public emotions were allowed to run wild". What was GoI suppose to do, lathicharge the aam junta that was expressing its jubilation on the streets? And the media was compliant? The same media such as BBTV, Chindu and others who were the first to question the strikes and carry Baki rebuttals on primetime and ask for proof? Even going so far as to question the IA of hiding their losses on LoC?As opposed to the brilliant SF operation, the political management of the aftermath was an unmitigated disaster. Jingoistic political and public emotions were allowed to run wild. No effort was made to rein in the more-than-compliant media.
Now read this bit and tell me is this a general writing or a politico? DGMO announcement was war hysteria. Not a world of Congress spokies and leaders going on national TV and announcing that they "carried out four surgical strikes". No mention of his dear leader proclaiming that India and not Pakistan was isolated. No mention of the 56 inchi taunts that were emanating from his partymen. But GoI deciding to evacuate citizens in the probable danger zone is "politically suspect"?To the contrary, it was egged on by the credible and not so credible leaks to raise war hysteria knowing fully well that sooner than later, it will emerge that it was a one-off operation to signal a strategic intent. A junior minister commented on the use of helicopters leading to more speculation. The Raksha Mantri, of all the people, said the Indian Army like Hanuman had awakened to rediscover its prowess. Without any complementary mobilisation of the Armed Forces, the evacuation of villages in Punjab up to 10 km from the international border, made the action politically suspect.
Did I say I agree or disagree with Gen Panag. That is not the question asked. Please read my post again!!Kashi wrote:ks_sachin wrote:And your rant without any justification is a guarantee of your intelligence? I understand you disagree but please justify why you disagree with Gen Panag's point of view.Gen. Panag proclaims Pak response as smart and claims that it led to the dilution of the impact of the surgical strikes. This is exactly what his leader Kejriwal was harping about, when asking for proof. So did Digvijaya.In such situations, only the PM or the RM should make a terse and clear political statement and leave it at that. Political capital was already on the table. Now it is lost in the shrillness of election rhetoric. Pakistan’s smart response and our political frenzy have diluted the gains of this watershed SF operation.
Do you find this agreeable?
Moreover, he has a lot to say about the "political handling" of the issue, except for the role of his party, the AAP.
Now how is this different from what his party AAP and Congress and others have been ranting about? He laments that "public emotions were allowed to run wild". What was GoI suppose to do, lathicharge the aam junta that was expressing its jubilation on the streets? And the media was compliant? The same media such as BBTV, Chindu and others who were the first to question the strikes and carry Baki rebuttals on primetime and ask for proof? Even going so far as to question the IA of hiding their losses on LoC?As opposed to the brilliant SF operation, the political management of the aftermath was an unmitigated disaster. Jingoistic political and public emotions were allowed to run wild. No effort was made to rein in the more-than-compliant media.
Now read this bit and tell me is this a general writing or a politico? DGMO announcement was war hysteria. Not a world of Congress spokies and leaders going on national TV and announcing that they "carried out four surgical strikes". No mention of his dear leader proclaiming that India and not Pakistan was isolated. No mention of the 56 inchi taunts that were emanating from his partymen. But GoI deciding to evacuate citizens in the probable danger zone is "politically suspect"?To the contrary, it was egged on by the credible and not so credible leaks to raise war hysteria knowing fully well that sooner than later, it will emerge that it was a one-off operation to signal a strategic intent. A junior minister commented on the use of helicopters leading to more speculation. The Raksha Mantri, of all the people, said the Indian Army like Hanuman had awakened to rediscover its prowess. Without any complementary mobilisation of the Armed Forces, the evacuation of villages in Punjab up to 10 km from the international border, made the action politically suspect.
Gen. Panag has explained the military part well ad perhaps that's where he should have left it. He acknowledges the brilliance of the plan and the support it had at the highest level. But the politico in him cannot come around to commending the person whom his party and dear leader loathe zealously.
Flamethrowers were not completely banned by the Convention on Certain Weapons, but their use was restricted to military targets only and prohibited against civilians or in areas where lots of civilians are likely to be present.ramana wrote:Its a mistranslation/psy-ops to keep calling it a flamethrower which is a banned weapon after Convention on Certain Weapons was signed.Austin wrote:Russian flamethrower ‘Shmel’ spearheaded surgical strikes
http://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_ ... kes_637715
Its thermo-baric weapon.
More powerful than a flame thrower.
You need to hold your tongue.snahata wrote:simply being in the army is not a guarantee of intelligence and desh bhakti Mr Panag proves that . And no I am not going to call him by his title. Moron
I think he meant Thermobaric rounds. SF and sometimes infantry has that. But Krasnopol is usually with arty. Thermobaric rounds have been used (sparingly) by RR before. In fact Gen Bakshi is a strong believer in heavy weapons and max fire.ramana wrote:What do you think of his Krasnopol remark?
Akshay Kapoor wrote:I think he meant Thermobaric rounds and perhaps the reporter garbled it. SF and sometimes infantry has that. But Krasnopol is usually with arty. Thermobaric rounds have been used (sparingly) by RR before. In fact Gen Bakshi is a strong believer in heavy weapons and max fire and used it many times in his career. As a CO he blasted a baloch unit, as a RR Sector Cmdr (Brig) he was very rough on terrorists and protective of the civilians and as a CIF Romeo Commander he was very offensive. I agree Gen Bakshi knows what he is saying - he has spent a lot of time in the valley and in combat.ramana wrote:What do you think of his Krasnopol remark?
J-K: Ops to flush out militants in Pampore enter 2nd day, explosions heard
Wednesday, October 12, 2016
By: Hindustan Times
Security forces launched a fresh offensive on Tuesday to flush out militants holed up inside a government building in Jammu and Kashmir’s Pampore town as the operation entered the second day.
Loud explosions were heard till 1am in the night and again at 5:30am on Tuesday as security forces stepped up the counter-attack against an unconfirmed number of militants, who entered the Jammu and Kashmir Entrepreneurship Development Institute (JKEDI) complex on Monday.
An Indian Army official said the area around the JKEDI premises has been cordoned off and exchange of fire was going on.
It appears the army is attacking the multistoried complex with heavy arms, hoping to either kill the militants or flush them out of the building.
On Monday, security forces lit up the complex on Monday to stop the militants from fleeing under the cover of darkness. A police officer said on Monday the militants were changing their positions constantly and security forces had earlier fired rockets and used light machine guns to localise them.
This is the second time the JKEDI complex, which trains and finances young men and women to be entrepreneurs, has been attacked this year. A three-day encounter in February left seven people, including three army commandos, dead.
Sources said on Monday that militants were holed up on the sixth and seventh floors of the hostel building and used furniture as barricades against the army. A part of the building appeared to be damaged by the fire during the gunfight on Monday.
The institute, situated on a strategic arterial road connecting Jammu and Srinagar, has three buildings -- a guest house, a hostel complex and the main office building -- on a 3.5-acre land on the Jhelum. The militants could have entered the complex from the riverside but that can only be ascertained once the operation is over.
After entering the complex, the militants set on fire a few mattresses inside a hostel room to attract the attention of the police and other security forces, who arrived within minutes of the smoke emanating from the building.
There were no students in the building when the attack began as classes remain suspended due to the ongoing unrest, which is in its fourth month, in the Kashmir valley. A few cooks, who were inside the building, were evacuated.
One soldier was injured in the encounter, the latest in a string of attacks in the border state in the last few weeks.
Militants have stepped up the attack in the state after the army announced that it had conducted surgical strikes on terror launch pads across the Line of Control in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. The army’s nearly five-hour-long operation was launched in the wake of then September 18 terror strike on an Uri army camp that left 19 soldiers dead.
India blames Pakistan for the Valley unrest that has left 90 people dead and for the militant violence.
Russian flamethrower ‘Shmel’ spearheaded surgical strikes
11 October 2016 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA
Indian commandos used the deadly Shmel fuel-air warhead in order to inflict the maximum number of jehadi casualties during the LoC strikes.
Kadakin: Russia with India. Terrorism is greatest human rights violation
Shmel: The powerful the rocket-propelled flame thrower
Indian army soldiers patrol near the highly militarized Line of Control dividing Kashmir between India and Pakistan, in Pallanwal sector, about 75 kilometers from Jammu, India, Oct. 4, 2016. Source:AP
When India’s Special Forces crossed the Line of Control (LoC) on the night of September 28, they attacked the terrorist camps with a variety of deadly weapons. According to investigative reporter and author Vicky Nanjappa, the commandos destroyed their targets with grenade launchers, rocket launchers and Shmel infantry flamethrowers.
Two days after the Uri attack, the Intelligence Bureau signalled to the army that it had picked up chatter which suggested that a big batch of terrorists would be moving closer to the LoC, says Nanjappa. The armed forces wanted the big batch to move in completely before launching this strike. One officer said there was no point in crossing the LoC and just destroying the launch pads. They would have built new ones immediately.
“Our intention was to inflict maximum damage and we wanted to snuff out their lives," the officer pointed out.
The Indian Army first targeted terror training camps up to 20 km deep inside Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) with heavy artillery. The terrorists scattered under the surprise artillery fire and took shelter in launching pads along the LoC. The Special Forces commandos then entered PoK.
From the get-go, the LoC strike was a take-no-prisoners mission. “The forces were told to just hit them and return,” says Nanjappa. The weapons were chosen to inflict the maximum casualties possible. Instead of using their assault rifles, the Indian commandos opened fire with rocket launchers and Shmel flamethrowers from the moment they came within range of these camps.
The Russian made ‘Shmel’ has the effect of a mini nuclear weapon and is designed to pulverise its target. The word flamethrower is in fact a misnomer because it is not a flame spewing weapon. The Shmel fires a ‘thermobaric’ warhead which works by dispersing a highly flammable fuel vapour, then igniting this cloud while it hangs over the target. The resulting blast generates a 3000-degree Celsius fireball that not only causes powerful burns but also a high pressure shockwave that sucks out all the oxygen an area of 50 square metres outdoors and 80 cubic metres indoors.
Indian weapons of Russian origin you barely knew existed
In each of the terrorist launch pads across the LoC, there were around five terrorists. Many of them would have been shredded to bits in their sleep. Those in the vicinity of the explosion would have suffered horrendous internal injuries from the compression. Even for a jehadi terrorist prepared for a one-way suicide mission, it is an incredibly unpleasant way to go.
Soviet and Russian troops who used the weapon in Afghanistan and Chechnya often talk about how a thermobaric shell blast inside a one-story stone house would literally throw the entire roof into the air. A direct hit on a light armoured vehicle or personnel carrier is also guaranteed to knock it out. The Afghan Mujahidin referred to the Shmel as “Shaitan’s (the Devil’s) Pipe”.
According to Nanjappa, the Lashkar-e-Taiba may have lost at least 20 of its terrorists in the strike while 18 belonged to the Jaish-e-Mohammad. There are other media reports that say much larger numbers of terrorists and Pakistan Army soldiers may have perished.
The number of enemy casualties in the raid will never be known because as is the Pakistan Army’s habit, it would have hidden the dead bodies. Most likely, bulldozers would have been used to remove all evidence. During the 1999 Kargil War, the Indian Air Force attacked the Northern Light Infantry troop concentrations, resulting in hundreds of dead Pakistani soldiers. However, the Pakistan Army refused to take back its dead and it was the Indian Army that gave enemy soldiers a quiet burial.
Flamethrowers: Deadly in any era
A US Army report notes that flamethrowers are still “an important asset in the Russian manoeuvre commander’s toolbox.” It cites a full report on Russia’s use of flamethrowers from the Foreign Military Studies Office, an open source research organization of the US Army.
The report isn’t written in a critical tone. It says that at a time when other armies are re-evaluating the value of flamethrowers, Russia has demonstrated their “usefulness for urban and mountain warfare, bunker busting, and clearing light infantry”.
“From a Russian military perspective, flamethrowers are seen not as weapons simply to be handed out to the rank-and-file for any ad-hoc use, but instead as a mature weapon system that filled specific capability gaps in the Russian Armed Forces force structure," notes OE Watch, the US Army Foreign Military Studies Office's monthly newsletter.
OE Watch interpreted Russia's expansion of thermobaric units as a sign the Kremlin is preparing for urban warfare in the future.
"As Russia experiments with new forms and methods of war, or 'hybrid war' as defined in the West, in Eastern Ukraine, urban warfare will likely continue to be a high priority for development, and so will Russia's flame-wielding NBC defence troops."
The 93 mm calibre Shmel comes in three varieties – fuel-air explosive or thermobaric (RPO-A), smoke composition (RPO-D) and incendiary composition (RPO-Z). The blast effect of the thermobaric warhead is roughly equivalent to the blast effect of a 107 mm high explosive artillery shell.
I know i will be criticized heavily on this but just drop a Bomb from LCA on this damn building... i know there are more prudent way to pull it down but using LCA will just pass a tough message...Philip wrote:The current Parampore stand-off has been going on for too long.The EDI building is already a wreck.Simply bring it down,use it for target practice for the LCH,Rudra,special munitions,NAG,etc.No need to expose any more jawans to the bullets of the jihadis.Bury them in concrete.
Gen.Bakshi's advocating use of heavy weaponry/max force is v.praiseworthy.There's little to be achieved by prolonging terrorist attacks/seiges.Snuffing out the vermin with the most extreme prejudice,seen live on telly, will sow fear in the minds of those waiting to cross over expecting "easy pickings".
Media reports are conflicting and confusing to say the least. Some say one jawaan is injured, others (zee news referenced in Swarajya) says we have lost personnel and have listed names. Any idea on the actual situation?Akshay Kapoor wrote:From media it looks like we are in control so my PLan A would be to starve them out. How long can they hold out.
the problem with the panags', père et fille, is that they both want political power without putting in any personal effort or even resources.arshyam wrote:Just because he says something you don't agree with does not mean you can simply drop his mil rank. Sorry, but that's aap-style ch****yapa. He did serve in the forces, at least give some respect to that. And this is BRF after all. You can/should still disagree, and stating one's earned rank does not diminish the disagreement.snahata wrote:simply being in the army is not a guarantee of intelligence and desh bhakti Mr Panag proves that . And no I am not going to call him by his title. Moron
OT, but i remember someone i know who says otherwise on the corrupt thing. He was particularly very critical of him during his days in Leh.rohitvats wrote:You need to hold your tongue.snahata wrote:simply being in the army is not a guarantee of intelligence and desh bhakti Mr Panag proves that . And no I am not going to call him by his title. Moron
Just because he says something contrary to your opinion, does not mean you make such idiotic comments about it. During his uniform days, he was a soldier par-excellence. And one known to be absolutely honest and incorruptible. Many a slime-balls in the IA quacked in their boots when it was known that Panag was going to be their commander.
Separate the chaff (comments because of political leaning) from wheat (assessment of geo-political & military aspects) and learn from his knowledge.
