China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 23:30

btw,

on chinese defence news,Zhang often released misleading information(maybe according to the odour from Xi?)

however, Zhang's analyses on foreign defence news are usually quite prospective and comeical.

for example ,

on CCTV,Zhang affirmed that some accidents surely were to happen to the sole Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, when it just left its homeport for Syria.
one week after Zhang's such talk, one mig29 of the russia AC's wing dropped into MIDITERRANEAN sea. PLAN Liaoning will never allow that. Wings will fall only when photoshopped

another example is on PLAN's sub fleet. Big radioactive release in 2011. Caused PLAN sailors to lose all scrotus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Type_094_accident

about several months before the accident, Zhang said on one TV program that his visit to US arm force left him the impression of " very unprofessional and undiscinpined". They have no vasectomic submarines unlike PLAN

He also joked that "PLAN lax sub crew might screw their sub themselves. Only crew worse than PLAN are our friends Pakis" .

at that time, all watchers just had his words as serious.
however several months later, chinese lax sub sailors made his word truth with Type094 accident.

here is the introduction of Zhang Zhaozhong ,PLAN rear admiral ("rear" because he a bit gay, likes too much gold in uniform), misleader on chinese defence informstion and the great prophet on foreign defence affiars. His big hero is Comical Ali of Iraq and wants to be Elizabeth Anne after operation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nVuIev2TQA

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Dec 2016 23:52

Dongfeng-41 nuclear solid-fueled road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile probably deployed near Tibet -#China

https://twitter.com/M3t4_tr0n/status/810428687577415680

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 19 Dec 2016 00:28

TSJ, not only Chinese but many including US have pulled a few slick ones on us in the past. We didn't care who chuckled or didn't in the past.

Even if some did, joke's on the one(s) who cared.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 19 Dec 2016 06:22

Austin wrote:Dongfeng-41 nuclear solid-fueled road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile probably deployed near Tibet -#China

https://twitter.com/M3t4_tr0n/status/810428687577415680

the appearance of df41,as well as that of j20,h20,is usually called "showing off the sword"(亮剑) in chinese.

china does so,perhaps to warn Thrump of his big mouth.

maybe china will show off its new nuke subs soon.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 19 Dec 2016 07:10

US actually brings their sword to the borders of china not show some grainy pics and make wildly laughable claims like DF-21 ding dong hitting a ship outline in desert or J-20 being stealthy.The F-22 have been flying from Guam and USN ships, subs and CVN's regularly romp around south china sea.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Dec 2016 08:06

Liu wrote: the appearance of df41,as well as that of j20,h20,is usually called "showing off the sword"(亮剑) in chinese.

china does so,perhaps to warn Thrump of his big mouth.

maybe china will show off its new nuke subs soon.

To repeat what I wrote earlier

shiv wrote: ...because conflict can be so costly and unpredictable, most entities start by "displays of power" to "show the adversary what we are capable of doing to him" - a sort of "war dance"

The entity that gets intimidated by a show of power will back off first, or the people who feel intimidated may be able to pull their leaders back from taking up a challenge even if their forces are actually capable of defeating the other guy who is doing his war dance.

China is doing a similar "war dance" with the USA. All classic tribal war dances are a lot of noise to attract attention - colours and fearsome looks, taunts and insults. These only set the stage - because it is not so much the dance, but the weapons and their use that are more significant. But those who get intimidated by the war dance are doing exactly what is intended by the war dance - that is to tell a potential enemy "Keep off. We will bugger your ass and send you packing if you come at us".

To cut a long story short - China has successfully convinced a whole lot of people and nations that they are now almost equal to the US. This actually puts pressure on the US to show why this is not so. In a strange way the US military faces the same problem as the Indian military regarding China. They are constantly forced to explain why they will not lose a war against China and increasingly "show their hand" and willingness to challenge. It is a war of perceptions that the Chinese have turned upside down - never mind their real capabilities.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Dec 2016 09:48

Bheeshma wrote: US actually brings their sword to the borders of china not show some grainy pics and make wildly laughable claims like DF-21 ding dong hitting a ship outline in desert or J-20 being stealthy.The F-22 have been flying from Guam and USN ships, subs and CVN's regularly romp around south china sea.

China will make it less and less easy for the US to do that.

The US made India feel like China by sitting in Pakistan and allying with them, We have spent hours speaking of how our leaders need permission from the US to do something to Pakistan, or that we will not do something because of the US. But because the US screwed us via a proxy, we did not have to deal with the US directly - except in 1971 -USS Enterprise

With Pakistan slipping out of US grasp we need to see where the US will go next. Ceding strategic space to both India and to China will be a huge contraction of US influence

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 19 Dec 2016 19:24

For the land of Sun Tzu, current communist leadership seems to be behaving a little out of their depth.

US is openly baiting them, trying to rest China. It will take only a single proxy conflict to screw them completely.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 19 Dec 2016 21:01

With Pakistan slipping out of US grasp we need to see where the US will go next. Ceding strategic space to both India and to China will be a huge contraction of US influence

you seem to forget that the US basically dumped Pakistan after the Russians were driven out of Afghanistan.

it will happen again.

and just like last time Pak will screw it up royally and attack Chinese elements (or Russian or whutever) within their state.

go ahead, try building a stinking pipeline. see what happens. the US won't have to do anything. we can count on jihad to take care of it.

My greatest hope is that Russia will get involved again.

China and Russia taking over Af-Pak. the thought of that gives me great hope.

and with currency streaming out of china seeking safe haven as it constantly devalues, nobody can give the kind of cash that uncle sugar did. nobody.

pakeestan is in for some interesting times.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 19 Dec 2016 23:48

Liu wrote: the appearance of df41,as well as that of j20,h20,is usually called "showing off the sword"(亮剑) in chinese.

china does so,perhaps to warn Thrump of his big mouth.

maybe china will show off its new nuke subs soon.

If you believe that this show of the sword is for USA, India, etc, then you have no idea of the intelligence gathering capability of large nations. Your emperor (aka govt.) is not that foolish. It is for internal consumption.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Dec 2016 08:14

Indranil wrote:
Liu wrote: the appearance of df41,as well as that of j20,h20,is usually called "showing off the sword"(亮剑) in chinese.

china does so,perhaps to warn Thrump of his big mouth.

maybe china will show off its new nuke subs soon.
If you believe that this show of the sword is for USA, India, etc, then you have no idea of the intelligence gathering capability of large nations. Your emperor (aka govt.) is not that foolish. It is for internal consumption.

What I find interesting is what I suspect might be a "Chinese way of thinking". It is not so much showing off hardware to adversaries' militaries - but to scare and intimidate their populations and their people via the media. A basically Goebbelsian plan.

Even on BRF and in the Indian media we see reassurances from the armed forces that "we are prepared" but no one believes it - preferring instead to believe what China puts out as "showing off the sword"(亮剑) . On the "other side" of this strategy is preventing shows of force from nations like the US/India from reaching the Chinese people using appropriate censorship - so the people are not intimidated by others.

This is classic psy-war, part bluff, part bluster.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 20 Dec 2016 16:31

<POOF>

Admin Note: Post links or photos (not more than 2) or your posts will be treated as propaganda with no value and deleted

you want resurce?
ok, give your resource,but perhaps you can not read it.

one PLAN rear admiral ,Jin yinan,revealed it in one lecture.

the video of the lecture was posted several days ago and cause lots of discussion.

http://www.bilibili.com/mobile/video/av7611144.html

<POOF of the rest>

Admin Note#2: So post it in a language we can read. If you want the rest of the world to shiver in our dhoti, we need to know if the "admiral" is showing a sword or an eel he plans to snack on later. Else it is good only for you guys to feel good, not enough for us to cower in fear. The guy could be showing his Sony camcorder footage of waves and shaking in anger about his last cruise off Macau, how the weather was totally patti-theettam and he did not get a refund

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 20 Dec 2016 17:34

shiv wrote:But because the US screwed us via a proxy, we did not have to deal with the US directly - except in 1971 -USS Enterprise

When IN sank MV Venus Challenger, India "did deal with the US directly". However, in the interests of diplomacy in the post Nixon era, it is deliberately kept low by both countries.

Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail gives a crisp description
http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.in/2010 ... 1-war.html

The Indian Navy task force had included two frigates for submarine screening and three missile boats for the actual attack. INS Nirghat was the first to engage and it fired two Styx missiles that hit PNS Khaibar. The next to fire two missiles was INS Nipat but its victim remained a mystery for some time till the sunken wreck of SS Venus Challenger, a Liberian merchant ship, was found by navy divers 26-nm south of Karachi, some days after the war ended. Nipat also fired a third missile at the harbour a little later, which hit some oil storage tanks at Keamari terminal. Last to fire was INS Veer whose single missile hit PNS Muhafiz.

More detailed description here

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=MGz ... er&f=false

On that night the Liberian-registered S.S. Venus Challenger, whose estimated date of arrival at Karachi was 5 December, disappeared. On 5 January 1972 her wreck was discovered by the Pakistan Navy 26.5 miles from Karachi. She lay in shallow water on an even keel with derricks visible six feet above mean high tide, and bore evidence of having been struck forward of the bridge by a missile, with consequent heavy damage. Subsequent investigation showed that she was lost on the night of the sinking of the Khyber and that the wreck had been first sighted two days later. There were no survivors, and the Government of Liberia issued a death certificate on the entire crew. The vessel was unable to send an SOS before catastrophe hurtled down upon her.

It was carrying rice from Saigon to Chittagong as per its cover story and diverted to Karachi.

Saigon in 1971 was the logistic hub for US military assistance to Vietnam and the Venus Challenger was actually carrying ammunition.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 20 Dec 2016 17:36

A general view of militarized Chinese society here http://kaiser-footloose.blogspot.in/201 ... rumqi.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Dec 2016 20:33

Posted without kament
https://sputniknews.com/military/201612 ... t-engines/

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 21 Dec 2016 16:25

Details emerge about requirement for China's new strategic bomber

An article published by the China Military Online website on 7 December has provided further insights into the requirements for China's new strategic bomber.

Remarks made in the media report by Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's Expert Consultation Committee, followed on from the confirmation given on 1 September by General Ma Xiaotian, Commander of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), that China is developing a new long-range strategic bomber referred to in the article as the H-20.

While Gen Ma gave no details of the programme, R Adm Yin, who is also a regular media commentator on Chinese military developments, commented that as the "cruise missiles, nuclear weapons, and other weapons and equipment that will be carried by domestic strategic bombers are all in place", the time was right for China to develop a new strategic bomber.

He stated that China's current long-range bomber, the Xian Aircraft Corporation (XAC) H-6 series (a modernised Tupolov Tu-16 Badger derivative) is not truly a strategic bomber and suggested that the new aircraft will have characteristics comparable with those of the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit stealth bomber.

The experience and knowledge in the design of stealth aircraft gained from the development of the stealthy J-20 and F-31 combat aircraft, together with the associated understanding and application of advanced materials technology, also present an opportune moment to progress the requirement for a new strategic bomber, according to R Adm Yin.

Although China has never developed a strategic bomber, the production of the XAC Y-20 military transport aircraft and of the Comac C919 commercial jet airliner reflect the progress the country's aviation industry has made in acquiring the technical expertise required to embark upon such a development project.

The article also quoted remarks made by another military commentator, Li Li, who noted that the technical challenge in producing a stealthy supersonic bomber was very considerable.

Consequently, Li suggested that the choice of how to achieve the ability to penetrate hostile airspace would likely focus on whether to aim for greater stealth or supersonic speed.China's need for a long-range strategic bomber was not articulated in the commentary but it seems likely that it is driven by a requirement to be able to strike targets in the second island chain and beyond through the combination of the aircraft's operating radius and the range of its air-launched cruise missiles.

Although no concrete details have been given, the public acknowledgement by the head of the PLAAF and the subsequent discussion in official media channels suggest that the project has been under way for some time.

The expectation is that China's 603rd Aircraft Design Institute and XAC, part of the Aviation Industry of China (AVIC) conglomerate, are working together on the project.

One reliable observer believes that the programme was initiated in the early 2000s and that by 2011 the design concept had been agreed as being a stealthy flying wing. This would reflect a decision to prioritise stealth over speed.

When questioned over timescales, R Adm Yin noted that development of the aircraft would take 10 years or more and that patience was needed.

However, the development programme may have been under way for more than 10 years already, so it is possible that the first prototype could be flying within 2-3 years.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 21 Dec 2016 19:32

Liu wrote:<POOF>

Admin Note: Post links or photos (not more than 2) or your posts will be treated as propaganda with no value and deleted

you want resurce?
ok, give your resource,but perhaps you can not read it.

one PLAN rear admiral ,Jin yinan,revealed it in one lecture.

the video of the lecture was posted several days ago and cause lots of discussion.

http://www.bilibili.com/mobile/video/av7611144.html

<POOF of the rest>

Admin Note#2: So post it in a language we can read. If you want the rest of the world to shiver in our dhoti, we need to know if the "admiral" is showing a sword or an eel he plans to snack on later. Else it is good only for you guys to feel good, not enough for us to cower in fear. The guy could be showing his Sony camcorder footage of waves and shaking in anger about his last cruise off Macau, how the weather was totally patti-theettam and he did not get a refund

well,
i volunteer sharing some "insider information" from chinese websites,just because i do think theose news are informative to you guys(frankly speaking, news on china is quite late in keypub or janes,and you guys seems not to have way to touch firsthand chinese news,so your information on chinese defence is quite outdated ) .

if you think such a sharing offend/frighten you guys and rejecting those news make you feel safer,then,ok,that is the last chinese news from me.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Dec 2016 22:33

Liu wrote: if you think such a sharing offend/frighten you guys and rejecting those news make you feel safer,then,ok,that is the last chinese news from me.

Noo You can't be serious. Besides what will the communist party quisling supervisor think if you give up so easily?

I love it when you post "latest news like this" which is not meant to threaten, scare or serve as propaganda. Just latest news.

Liu wrote:1.you can estimate chinese weapon as you wish, of course ,at your peril.
2.as for the quality of all china-made( including weapons ,of course).
3 -4 years ago, I used Sansumg smartphone.at that time. Korea-made smartphones were head of China-made ones indeed.
last year, I bought one Huawei mate8,which makes all korea-made ones look like $hit!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Dec 2016 02:01

Admins, can we please keep Liu for humour relief? We need that on BRF.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 22 Dec 2016 05:07

I caught a pneumonia reading chinese news.. still shivering..

Doctor say - chinese news help build my immunity if read in right amount

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Dec 2016 07:20

Liu wrote: if you think such a sharing offend/frighten you guys and rejecting those news make you feel safer,then,ok,that is the last chinese news from me.

When communist party propaganda causes expansive boasts to be posted and later called "news" - and its your own frigging fault if you can't understand that the post below is pure news, not a boast, not a threat, not a huge stinking public fart.

Liu wrote:
in 3-4 years, we will see PLA battalion~level oversea opertation somewhere far away from chinese nativeland say africa.chinese business interest in africa will receive military escort from PLA.

frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 22 Dec 2016 08:59

Rakesh wrote:Admins, can we please keep Liu for humour relief? We need that on BRF.

We all love Liu and his gems

Liu wrote:btw,
He also joked that "PLAN lax sub crew might screw their sub themselves. Only crew worse than PLAN are our friends Pakis" .

I dearly hope his supervisors dont turn gay and keep him for themselves....

Liu,

Liu wrote: that is the last chinese news from me.

Those are not chinese news, but your version of chinese news. Links that make sense are welcome. CD to us is is kind of like Shanghaiist blog - aimed at white people who have better neighbours, unlike us

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 22 Dec 2016 15:25

Liu Bro,
seems like "you dont understand the indian humor". Here guys insult their best friends most. We are definitely late in catching up with Chinese military breakthroughs like our news channels breaking news. Please please please dont leave us.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Dec 2016 17:22

Folding wing on JL-9? Carrier-base variant?

http://alert5.com/2016/12/22/folding-wi ... e-variant/

chola · Post by **chola** » 22 Dec 2016 23:11

GShankar wrote:TSJ, not only Chinese but many including US have pulled a few slick ones on us in the past. We didn't care who chuckled or didn't in the past.

Even if some did, joke's on the one(s) who cared.

What exactly has the US pulled on us? Especially when you considered the Nehru clan was heavily pro-Soviet?

Kissinger and Nixon were jerks but expected when Congress played up ties to the USSR.

The kernel of prosperty we have in India today is due in part to the US opening up their market to our outsourcing wallahs.

chola · Post by **chola** » 22 Dec 2016 23:24

ranjan.rao wrote:Liu Bro,
seems like "you dont understand the indian humor". Here guys insult their best friends most. We are definitely late in catching up with Chinese military breakthroughs like our news channels breaking news. Please please please dont leave us.

Ban him. Chinese brigades in Africa? Those aren't even technical "rumors" useful to us. Those are nothing but propagandizing.

FC-31 2.0 taxiing test and the 2015 construction start of the type 002 CATOBAR carrier were already spread on PDF (yes, I contribute to our shock and awe campaign there, check the Indian forum there. Tons of threads updated with latest photos and news stories.)

Ban them.

Again, if you want rumors go to PDF. If we want solid news we can wait for them to appear in western publications first. The truth is those are pretty up to date since there are large numbers of westerners on the chini boards anyways and they filter out the inevitable propaganda that would come directly from the chinis.

sreerudra · Post by **sreerudra** » 23 Dec 2016 00:06

China always had the advantage of starting from stolen designs so it has no entry barrier for trying any new technology. Can it develop the final product is always the million dollar question.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 23 Dec 2016 08:00

Cholla you don't seem to understand Indian humor too. That and this are obviously on lighter note. Don't get worked up...I think mods haven't started their vacation yet. Happy holidays.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Dec 2016 08:11

chola wrote: What exactly has the US pulled on us? Especially when you considered the Nehru clan was heavily pro-Soviet?

Kissinger and Nixon were jerks but expected when Congress played up ties to the USSR.

The kernel of prosperty we have in India today is due in part to the US opening up their market to our outsourcing wallahs.

One of India's failures was gratitude towards those who helped - like the USSR. The US allowing outsourcing from India was hardly an altruistic act. That being the case there should be no gratitude towards the US for real or perceived favours and the aim should be to take what we get and aim to dominate and displace existing powers in a ruthless climb to the top. That is one lesson that India can learn from the attitude of the US and that of China.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 23 Dec 2016 08:21

Austin wrote:Folding wing on JL-9? Carrier-base variant?

http://alert5.com/2016/12/22/folding-wi ... e-variant/

Although landing gear looks same, following link says it's a new trainer JL-9G for navy. Pics included

http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.c ... ainer.html

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Dec 2016 13:06

https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/8 ... 8771773444

Around 10:00 this morning, FC-31 V2 successfully made its maiden flight.

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 23 Dec 2016 14:06

What's with the photochopping all the while? The first one is done so badly the student would have been kicked out of the art institute where they came up with it.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 23 Dec 2016 19:49

shiv wrote: One of India's failures was gratitude towards those who helped - like the USSR. The US allowing outsourcing from India was hardly an altruistic act. That being the case there should be no gratitude towards the US for real or perceived favours and the aim should be to take what we get and aim to dominate and displace existing powers in a ruthless climb to the top. That is one lesson that India can learn from the attitude of the US and that of China.

Shiv ji OT here but do you really expect India to do with the US, what China did with Russian military wares, when Indian private companies have not done in software outsourcing - namely beg, borrow, steal, invent - but create our own IP?

You call it gratitude, I do not know about that part but I certainly see an eco-system not built to do such things.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Dec 2016 20:14

Shaurya I didn't understand your question. You will need to re word it. In any case I will not respond on this thread. The subject is OT

chola · Post by **chola** » 23 Dec 2016 21:24

shiv wrote:
chola wrote: What exactly has the US pulled on us? Especially when you considered the Nehru clan was heavily pro-Soviet?

Kissinger and Nixon were jerks but expected when Congress played up ties to the USSR.

The kernel of prosperty we have in India today is due in part to the US opening up their market to our outsourcing wallahs.
One of India's failures was gratitude towards those who helped - like the USSR. The US allowing outsourcing from India was hardly an altruistic act. That being the case there should be no gratitude towards the US for real or perceived favours and the aim should be to take what we get and aim to dominate and displace existing powers in a ruthless climb to the top. That is one lesson that India can learn from the attitude of the US and that of China.

I am all in favor of a hard-edge approach. Let's begin with the Russians. Time to cast them off and take what we could from Unkil. Right now, there is an opening with the US needing a balancer against cheen. This has open us up to C-17, P-8, EMALS, the Teens and most likely the F-35.

I hope there are those in GOI forward thinking emough to take advantage of this. But I trust our netas to mess it up with all these anti-American conspiracies instead of viewing things through the chankian lens you are advocating.

chola · Post by **chola** » 23 Dec 2016 21:37

Austin wrote:https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/8 ... 8771773444

Around 10:00 this morning, FC-31 V2 successfully made its maiden flight.

Andreas Rupprecht says the engines could be domestic WS-13E. At least from the still shots, it is not as smokey as the first version.

Liu couldn't clue us off to this event? Instead of giving us that shit about sending brigades to Africa? Worthless to our forum.

Following PRC development through western experts and blogs is far more fruitful and to be perfectly honest a heck of a lot of fun when rumors come true in real time.

Ban the chinis from this forum. We don't need them -- the same old 52-centers with the same old tripe who can't get newer stuff than the paki site.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 24 Dec 2016 04:03

Andreas is a mod on Sinodefence and PDF, he posts as Deino, most of the info he gathers are from those boards along with CDF where he's not a mod but a frequent poster. Most of the info from those boards in turn originate from Chinese boards. He believes that the F-31 is likely to be equipped with the WS-13 because of rumors on Chinese boards, for example. Andreas, of course, is a veteran PLA watcher and is quite good at sifting out the BS.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 25 Dec 2016 00:36

Good comparison between FC-31 V1 and V2:

In other news, the 2nd 055 destroyer/cruiser is under construction. The 2nd carrier type 001A is being painted, expected to be launched Q1 or Q2 next year. 2 Sovremenny class and 2 051B class destroyers are almost done with mid-life upgrades, which essentially turn them into larger 054As with more AShMs and CIWS. The first 2 batches (50+ each batch) of J-10B/Cs are finished and are now in service.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 25 Dec 2016 00:51

chola wrote:
GShankar wrote:TSJ, not only Chinese but many including US have pulled a few slick ones on us in the past. We didn't care who chuckled or didn't in the past.

Even if some did, joke's on the one(s) who cared.

What exactly has the US pulled on us? Especially when you considered the Nehru clan was heavily pro-Soviet?

Kissinger and Nixon were jerks but expected when Congress played up ties to the USSR.

The kernel of prosperty we have in India today is due in part to the US opening up their market to our outsourcing wallahs.

What did US pull?

Assuming this is a serious question, I think the following could be considered as a tiny sub-set of answers from the last 20 years or so.

Sanctions on India for pokran-2
Ignoring India in Af-pak
Giving doles to pakis
strip searching india leaders, esp. Kalam
Ford Foundation
creation of NSG and many other groups (some they themselves didn't ratify)

The magnitude can vary from one action to another but the intent doesn't seem to.

Coming to the kernel of prosperity, any economy that removes the shackles of socialism will be on the path to prosperity by default. And I hope you are aware of Indian GDP from whenever till 1800s. So no need for the amma - thaaye (mai-baap) attitude towards other countries. And I am saying this as someone who works in mamu nadu.

For every penny (or dollar) we make, the sponsors make more only...

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Dec 2016 04:23

chola wrote:

What exactly has the US pulled on us? Especially when you considered the Nehru clan was heavily pro-Soviet?

Kissinger and Nixon were jerks but expected when Congress played up ties to the USSR.

The kernel of prosperty we have in India today is due in part to the US opening up their market to our outsourcing wallahs.

Uncle put India in sanction and supported Pak and pak terrorism in Kashmir for more than 30 years

Once they came to find out that Pak gorilla cannot be controlled they invited Indians to US