Discussion on Indian Special Forces

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 26 Oct 2016 18:37

Why don't the SPG counter assault operators wear helmets? I have seen multiple videos of these commandoes.. none show any operator wearing helmets..

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Nov 2016 05:41

Was this posted before?

Video with ton loads of MARCOS training clips:

Linky(in case embed not working)

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 23 Nov 2016 13:39

MARCOS with Brazlian and South African Naval SF

Marcos with Sri Lankan SF

Para SF- Recent COIN/CT

Paras

Captain Pawan -

NSG - During Training Ops at a port

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 24 Nov 2016 21:49

Cross-posting from Mil. Aviation thread.

Viv S wrote:V-22s for India? Aside from carrier logistics and (potentially) AEW&C, one very real role I can see is special operations/counter-terrorism.

Currently the NSG has only four metropolitan hubs in addition to the one at Manesar. If its needed anywhere else in the country, the NSG team will need to get to an airport and requisition an aircraft, civil or military. That will only get it to the closest airport to the target. From there on it needs to commandeer some buses/trucks and their drivers, negotiate traffic jams and then perhaps foot it the rest of the way.

A ready flight of two V-22s based at a central location like say.. Nagpur can take two teams (40 cdos) anywhere within 90% of the country in 2 hours (3hrs for the NE), brief them in the air, rope them down in close proximity to the target and provide persistent aerial/recce support. And, if needed, fire support too through the tail-gunner.

Just to put that in perspective, in rush hour, it takes far more than two hours to get from one end of a typical metro. State authority exercised through hard power and available 24x7, anywhere in the country at a moment's notice. Whether its a local strongmen turned wannabe warlord or an ambushed CRPF team.

Worth spending $1 bn for six units (incl. support)? I'd say so.

The Lowdown On Osprey’s Indian Hover

Shiv Aroor, Nov 22 2016

Does India need the V-22 Osprey? Need. That often powerless little word in the world of military modernisation globally — and certainly in India. Far more powerful impulses edge out straitlaced motivations like actual need in militaries. For instance, diplomatic necessity. Or, as a bite-the-bullet bridge to something bigger. Or, simply, want. So let’s re-frame that question: does India want the V-22 Osprey in any form? Well, here’s the thing. It’s complicated. And Livefist has some exclusive new information indicative of a structured plan Boeing is looking to pursue towards actually landing a deal for the Osprey in India.

India first solicited interest in the V-22 at the start of this decade in late 2010. First and second level of detail presentations were promptly made to the Indian Air Force. In 2012, Boeing confirmed that preliminary discussions were under way and that they saw a good deal of interest from India:

In 2013, the Indian Navy joined the conversation, throwing a glance at the V-22 and thinking of it for the carrier logistics and re-supply role. The navy dialed the US Navy asking for price and availability data on the Osprey platform. In 2015, reports emerged that the Indian military (presumably the Indian Air Force) was interested in procuring six V-22s for ‘rapid troop insertion in border areas’. Things have swum along in the realm of information sharing and presentations so far, understandably with less than a fraction of the expense or aggression being poured into more concrete programmes like the F/A-18 Super Hornet or the successfully concluded Apache & Chinook deals. The V-22, after all, doesn’t address a direct, clearly defined requirement — nor would it immediately figure in a prospective list of aircraft purchase priorities. Nevertheless, Livefist learns there’s a serious campaign afoot.

Top sources at Boeing tell Livefist the company is aiming to bring India on board as an operator of the V-22 Osprey within the next decade — by 2025 to be precise. As part of ongoing shape and capture opportunities, which saw Japan sign on as the first intetnational customer of the V-22 last year, Boeing is looking at 2025 as the year by which India should be a customer of the V-22. It is understood that airframes aimed at India will be from the third production tranche (called Multi-Year Procurement or MYP III) or the U.S. Marines MV-22 Common Configuration – Readiness and Modernization (CC-RAM) — a federal contract opportunity to beef up the Osprey, published earlier this year. This projection suggests Boeing is aiming at both a logistics-resupply role as well as a full-fledged special forces battlefield role for potential Ospreys in India. The U.S. Marine Corps, it has been known for a while, are looking to lethalize their MV-22s with a slew of arms add-ons, including rockets, mini-guns and missiles.

The U.S. Navy, currently validating the V-22 (it will ultimately be called the CMV-22B in naval service) for carrier on-board delivery to replace its C-2A Greyhound fleet starting 2018 has had hiccups. When your correspondent visited the U.S. Navy’s Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia earlier this month, Commander Scott Miller006, an F/A-18 pilot with many tours on board aircraft carriers sounded skeptical about the Osprey. He highlighted two issues he saw as as big worries: the time it took for a V-22 to fold up (and that when it landed, it pretty much stopped all other air ops on deck), and the fact that its downward pointing nacelle exhaust plumes melted the flight deck surface coating on carriers during tests. Asked for a comment on these two issues, Rick Lemaster, Boeing’s Director, Global Sales & Marketing for Tiltrotor Programs said these were common ‘myths’ about the V-22. He said the Osprey folded up in 90 seconds, and a standard operating procedure had been evolved during carrier landings for Osprey pilots to oscillate the nacelles every few minutes to ensure there was no flightdeck burn. While this to-and-fro between the U.S. Navy and Boeing may be expected to continue, the question is of India.

The Indian Navy has been known for a while to want a variety of carrier-launched capabilities, chiefly logistics & resupply, but also carrier-launched airborne early warning and anti-submarine warfare. Boeing’s Lemaster confirms the programme has been lately looking at early warning radars and other kit that could convert the Osprey into an AEW/ASW/ASuW platform — part of what the U.S. Marine Corps wants for the aircraft anyway.

Starting with the P-8I deal of 2009 and C-17 deal in 2011, Boeing has had a relentlessly successful run with the Indian military, scoring big wins with twin rotorcraft deals with the Indian Air Force and Harpoon missiles for the Indian Navy. Several platforms like the V-22 wait in the wings as it were to service potential Indian interest. These include the AH-6i Little Bird and 737 AEW&C Wedgetail, both part of Boeing’s catalogue on the Indian table. Others like the InSitu Scan Eagle are part of active contests.

But the V-22 faces a combination of challenges in country — budget, acquisition priority in the medium term and a visible absence of any convincing reason to acquire the sort of capability that the Osprey offers to the Indian combat requirement vis-a-vis, say, what the incoming Chinooks would easily deliver. Then again, Boeing’s track record suggests they’ve been able to read Indian requirements and ‘capture’ them pretty well. And they’ve got a specific 2025 deadline to score.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 24 Nov 2016 21:51

rkhanna wrote:Marcos with Sri Lankan SF

Para SF- Recent COIN/CT

Could you fix the images please? Thanks.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 25 Nov 2016 10:14

"Could you fix the images please? Thanks."

Hey sorry didn't understand. You mean sizing?

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 02 Dec 2016 00:37

rkhanna wrote:"Could you fix the images please? Thanks."

Hey sorry didn't understand. You mean sizing?

Its actually not showing on my screen. Like so..

I think you need to be logged in at IDF for the hotlinked pics to show.

Images #4 & #5 (above) and the last two.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Dec 2016 05:49

Nice Discovery shakinaw documentary on IA Para SF selection. Needs to be widely disseminated in paki and other fora for re-education purposes.

Shows things typically not highlighted such as language skills training and how trainees are broken down before being built up.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 02 Dec 2016 07:28

^^^^
Added to BR's own Army site (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/multimedia.html)

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 02 Dec 2016 09:18

^^ It might be copyright protected, pls exercise due caution before linking on the main site.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Jan 2017 08:16

India’s Conventional Deterrent and the Role of Special Operations Forces along the Sino-Indian Border

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Jan 2017 09:51

^^ Very interesting read. Thanks for posting.

Some interesting points in the article:

U.S. SOFs, having observed their
Indian counterparts during training exercises, noticed that in many cases Indian
paratroopers preferred to discard their expensive Israeli-designed Tavor rifles—
which are ill suited for Himalayan conditions and occasionally jam—in favor of
the more reliable AK-47

There is a broad consensus within
India’s SOF community that where the Garud truly needs to focus its efforts is
on developing a core of highly trained JTACs and forward-deployed air combat–
control teams.162 Another core objective would be to specialize in the emergency
extraction of downed IAF pilots or groups of SFFs or Para SFs isolated behind
enemy lines.163 Yet, according to most interviewees, until now not much progress
has been made on these fronts.

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 05 Jan 2017 21:29

I really don't know where this chap is getting his information from. Most AK's have been phased out of SF teams for half a decade plus now besides the point that the Tavor is known within SF units for being rugged and reliable.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jan 2017 21:17

Great Special Forces shot
https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/820533742624083968

pattnayak · Post by **pattnayak** » 17 Jan 2017 22:50

Demonstrations on surgical strike methods

on Army Day 2017. I see new new helmets being worn by the troops. Also two Rudras make an appearance.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Jan 2017 23:08

I like the prisoner snatch at the end, getting lifted up in the sky by the chopper. A not so subtle psyops warning to the Pakis on the fate that awaits Haafiz Suar.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 17 Jan 2017 23:32

How come the scanias are still in service? I imagined that tatras or desi alternative would have replaced them by now

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 21 Jan 2017 08:58

NSG to take part for first time in Republic Day parade
https://twitter.com/DDNewsHindi/status/ ... 3592987648

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2017 19:59

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/iafs ... 62847.html

DRDO should still be the primary point to develop or collaborate to make in India for anything and everything

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Jan 2017 09:35

Nick_S wrote:NSG to take part for first time in Republic Day parade
https://twitter.com/DDNewsHindi/status/ ... 3592987648

Why???

Some things are better left off behind the veil. Special forces units should never be advertised.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Jan 2017 10:04

agree. silliness of the highest order.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jan 2017 10:09

someone has seen Le Assault movie. good for the intimidation factor for the Daura-E-Khas recruits now undergoing training in TSP. nothing like looking at death in the face to shake the resolve of the waverers

there are hordes of youtube videos of CT units of other nations. movies are made of everything for USCG rescue swimmers, LAPD SWAT, FBI HRT, delta force, seal teams .... sometimes with real operators and definitely help in equipment and sets. USN lays out the red carpet to anyone who features the huge Khan CVNs and soothing surge of takeoffs

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Jan 2017 10:13

SaiK wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/iafs-garud-commandos-to-be-equipped-with-new-arms-and-bullet-proof-jackets/1/862847.html

DRDO should still be the primary point to develop or collaborate to make in India for anything and everything

Those gloves are for auto mechanics - keep hands clean. They provide some grip, but not sure they are good for combat purposes. Cheap tho' and available at any WalMart.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jan 2017 10:23

most of the time, COTS is good enough .... drdo need not reinvent every wheel.

the US army just finalized after a TEN year selection process a Siig sauer pistol for its next handgun (with some mods) over the current Beretta

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Jan 2017 11:03

^^^^^
and the SEALs and Army SF use Glocks for sidearms and will continue to use them for the forseeable future.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Jan 2017 18:21

Nice to see maroon beret drill instructor amongst the sea of black

You need to advertise your capability for deterrence effect. Jehadis should know (i.e. be afraid off) what they are up against in case.

Pratyush wrote:
Nick_S wrote:NSG to take part for first time in Republic Day parade
https://twitter.com/DDNewsHindi/status/ ... 3592987648
Why???

Some things are better left off behind the veil. Special forces units should never be advertised.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 23 Jan 2017 09:57

NRao wrote:
SaiK wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/iafs-garud-commandos-to-be-equipped-with-new-arms-and-bullet-proof-jackets/1/862847.html

DRDO should still be the primary point to develop or collaborate to make in India for anything and everything

Those gloves are for auto mechanics - keep hands clean. They provide some grip, but not sure they are good for combat purposes. Cheap tho' and available at any WalMart.

Go through any rough, broken, overgrown terrain with a heavy backpack (ie anything except your bedroom) and within ten minutes you will realise importance of gloves, knee & elbow protection, goggles, monkey caps etc. Efficiency of a soldier is decreased by lots of small things like bruise knee, twisted ankle, broken nail, grit in eye, scratched face etc. We don't have to continue with British policy of using our soldiers as cannon fodder or decreasing their combat efficiency for a kit worth less than ₹ 5000.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 23 Jan 2017 10:19

Ashutosh Bhatia ‏@ashutitikshu 49m49 minutes ago
The commandos of National Security Guards will make a debut this year in #RepublicDay parade.

nits · Post by **nits** » 23 Jan 2017 16:46

Nick_S wrote:Ashutosh Bhatia ‏@ashutitikshu 49m49 minutes ago
The commandos of National Security Guards will make a debut this year in #RepublicDay parade.

Gurus - Correct me if wrong but is the device mounted on NSG Commando head is NVG ?

Quick comparison with what UK forces wear

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 Jan 2017 17:46

^ Short answer - Yes, one of the types.

The mount may be adaptable to attach the Ground Panoramic Night Vision Goggle of Operation Neptune Spear fame and considered to be one of the best currently.

Rohitvats might be able to confirm

nits · Post by **nits** » 24 Jan 2017 14:28

NSG practising for 26/1 on Rajpath

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 24 Jan 2017 14:39

^ well earned spot for NSG on the republic day parade.

Any news of awards for surgical strike? Want to see the citations

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jan 2017 14:52

the yellow tinted glasses cuts the blue haze significantly - used in driving glasses.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Jan 2017 20:54

Have been asked what weapons Para SF uses apart from AK.
They use what suits operations. But main weapons are Tavor TAR 21 and M4.
https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 5755846656

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2017 18:14

Manu Pubby ‏@manupubby_ET · 7m7 minutes ago

The list of gallantry awards on occasion of Republic Day. Check 4 and 9 Para officers and men for those awarded for surgical strikes.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2017 18:41

Sandeep ‏@SandeepUnnithan · 6m6 minutes ago

1 Kirti Chakra, 5 Shaurya Chakras for commandos from 4 Para-SF 9 Para-SF who led Sept 29 surgical strikes into PoK.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Jan 2017 23:20

The highest award given out this Republic Day is to Army Commando - Major Rohit Suri - from 4 Para (Special Forces).
https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/824294203861499904

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 26 Jan 2017 00:48

One SM (Gallantry) for Special Group also....

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Jan 2017 06:10

To my untrained eye, it seems a few Ghataks from Dogra and Bihar regiments have been commended as well.

For the uninformed what is PTR (No. 10 Shaurya Chakra)? Is it a porter?

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 26 Jan 2017 08:32

PTR = Paratrooper perhaps?