From the bottom two rows, the four from left are from the PLAN and the two on right are from the PN.
https://twitter.com/skand88_/status/153 ... 744SLBfIiA --->
Rajat Pandit
NEW DELHI: The defence ministry on Monday gave the initial approval to several military modernisation projects worth Rs 76,390 crore, including the construction of eight next-generation corvettes for the Navy.
The eight corvettes, which will be designed for anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare as well as anti-missile defence operations, will be constructed at an estimated cost of Rs 36,000 crore by an Indian shipyard selected through competitive bidding.
The defence acquisitions council (DAC), chaired by defence minister Rajnath Singh, also accorded acceptance of necessity (AoNs) for procurement of wheeled armoured fighting vehicles with anti-tank guided missiles and weapon-locating radars, rough terrain fork-lift trucks and bridge-laying tanks, for the Army through domestic sources with emphasis on indigenous design and development.
“The DAC also accorded AoNs for manufacture of Dornier aircraft and Sukhoi-30 MKI aero-engines by M/s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, with a focus on enhancing indigenisation particularly in indigenising aero-engine material,” an official said.
...
We don’t have specs for next gen corvette yet I believe the specs you are quoting for is NGMV?kit wrote:These "corvettes" carry almost an equal punch to the Delhi class destroyers !
1 X OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM)-Manufacture by BHELrange)
2 x AK-630M CIWS
32 × VL-SRSAM
8 × VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship
VSHORAD
so wiki says Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMVs) are a planned class of anti-surface warfare corvettes for the Indian Navy.Under this programme the Indian Navy intends to acquire six advanced missile corvettes.John wrote:We don’t have specs for next gen corvette yet I believe the specs you are quoting for is NGMV?kit wrote:These "corvettes" carry almost an equal punch to the Delhi class destroyers !
1 X OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM)-Manufacture by BHELrange)
2 x AK-630M CIWS
32 × VL-SRSAM
8 × VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship
VSHORAD
Yes that’s NGMV being built by Cochin it is already finalized where as this is Next Gen corvette. I know it is confusing since NGMV is also corvette sized vessel but that IMO will be around 1000-1500 Tons (don’t look at wiki tonnage which is incorrect). These cost more 2x as much as NGMV indicating these will be similar in size P-28 or even heavier so around 3000 Tons and might pack even MF-STAR.kit wrote:so wiki says Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMVs) are a planned class of anti-surface warfare corvettes for the Indian Navy.Under this programme the Indian Navy intends to acquire six advanced missile corvettes.John wrote: We don’t have specs for next gen corvette yet I believe the specs you are quoting for is NGMV?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Gene ... le_Vessels
maybe some one can clarify ?
Why do we cal them as corvettes ? Let us say frigates.John wrote:Yes that’s NGMV being built by Cochin it is already finalized where as this is Next Gen corvette. I know it is confusing since NGMV is also corvette sized vessel but that IMO will be around 1000-1500 Tons (don’t look at wiki tonnage which is incorrect). These cost more 2x as much as NGMV indicating these will be similar in size P-28 or even heavier so around 3000 Tons and might pack even MF-STAR.kit wrote:
so wiki says Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMVs) are a planned class of anti-surface warfare corvettes for the Indian Navy.Under this programme the Indian Navy intends to acquire six advanced missile corvettes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Gene ... le_Vessels
maybe some one can clarify ?
During the early days of nirbhay development, it was stated that Brahmos and Nirbhay will share the VLS system.Prem Kumar wrote:
Snip,....
Would be nice if there was space for 8 Nirbhays too :-)
That’s wiki for you someone just posted that with no source, the RFP called for following. Anything outside of this is pure speculationPrem Kumar wrote:In the NGMV specs, why is there a VSHORAD, in addition to VL-SRSAM? Are these man-portable ones or just a Wiki typo?
Seems like a 8 Brahmos boat + an MR gun, with the rest of the weapons for self defense. Would be nice if there was space for 8 Nirbhays too
Most modern Frigates are in 6000 ton range and looks like navy envisions 4 different line of attack vessels to be built this decade. While NGC was in pipeline for few years I believe it was shelved because of Talwar class to be built by Goa but with that project in limbo looks like this has been revived.Kersi D wrote:
Why do we cal them as corvettes ? Let us say frigates.
Oh yes I was putting the original displacement limits of the class from top of my head, even P-17a displacement have grown to 6750 last I checked.sohamn wrote:^^^^ P15B is 7500 tons.
They already do, check out the capability of P28 kamortas.Aditya_V wrote:Would our corvettes have the ability to fire Varunastra and Smart and support 1 Helicopter?
Varunastra can be fired by P28s but NGMV does not torpedo tubes and NGC specs haven't been released yet but most likely it will have light torpedo tubes.sohamn wrote:They already do, check out the capability of P28 kamortas.Aditya_V wrote:Would our corvettes have the ability to fire Varunastra and Smart and support 1 Helicopter?
That image is from DRDO presentation. Don't like how he took out that watermark to make it seem like it is his. I don't believe it has anything to do with NGC.Rakesh wrote:Virtually every acronym on that graphic below is Indian. I hope the NGC design will be the precursor to new generation frigates and destroyers as well. The current lot of frigates and destroyers are cluttered. And thank goodness (despite the utility)...no RBU-6000 ASW launchers!
And supersonic BrahMos mijjiles on a corvette. Wow!
https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... S96Sitha2A ---> Indian Navy's New Generation Corvette (NGC) design to be also offered as export to friendly countries with customer specific modifications.
https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... S96Sitha2A ---> For the Indian Navy, the DAC accorded AoN for procurement of Next Generation Corvettes (NGC) at an estimated cost of approximately Rs 36,000 crore. These NGCs will be versatile platforms for a variety of roles viz. surveillance missions, escort ops, deterrence, Surface Action Group (SAG) operations.
John, just a clarification.John wrote:That image is from DRDO presentation. Don't like how he took out that watermark to make it seem like it is his. I don't believe it has anything to do with NGC.
Technically even Tarantul and Khukri where supposed to have Brahmos in inclined launchers but due to cost reason I think it was scrapped.
Yes it's DRDO image on its contributions for some reason it was linked as P-28a and now NGC. Even though that's a size of a frigate and is clearly based on or is FREMM.Pratyush wrote:Are we sure that the NGC image render is not just a place holder.
As this is image the French version of the FREMM.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Xry1zVeyK9m66FtC9
I believe it came from DRDO presentation can't find which one, the article I posted clearly shows the DRDO watermark. I don't believe DRDO presentation had anything to do with NGC.Rakesh wrote:John, just a clarification.
If that image is from a DRDO presentation, is it of the NGC or is it not? Because you are stating that the picture has nothing to do with NGC.
So did DRDO just lift a picture off the web or is that a real rendering of a corvette?
Okay thanks. That makes some sense now.John wrote:Yes it's DRDO image on its contributions for some reason it was linked as P-28a and now NGC. Even though that's a size of a frigate and is clearly based on or is FREMM.
From what I can piece together that pic it is design put out by DRDO for a futuristic corvette but looks like they just based it on FREMM. It may be more for showcasing it's contribution to future ships than an actual design .Rakesh wrote:Okay thanks. That makes some sense now.John wrote:Yes it's DRDO image on its contributions for some reason it was linked as P-28a and now NGC. Even though that's a size of a frigate and is clearly based on or is FREMM.
So safe to assume that they took a FREMM design and condensed it to a corvette?
36k crores for 8 vessels, still a bit expensive for a corvette. P-28 cost around 2000 crores each so if adjust for inflation and better armaments a improved P-28 could fall around that.srin wrote:A billion dollars for a corvette ? Even assuming imported Elta radar, Barak 8, MH 60 helicopter, it seems quite a lot
It would be very difficult to fit all these weapons and sensors on a 2,000 - 2,500 tonne hull. Maybe 3,000+ tonnesmody wrote:The cost will probably also involve the design and development.
This will be a multi-role corvette, unlike the P28, which have a purely anti-sub role or the older Khukri and Kora class types, which are purely anti-ship or anti-surface type of roles, with almost no anti-sub role.
Due to the high cost, I would speculate the weapons fit as below:
1). 1 76 mm SRGM
2). 2 CIWS AK-630 guns with associated Indian Radar
3). 8 nos. Brahmos-NG missiles
4). 8 nos. LR-LACM
5). Two triple tube launchers for light weight torpedoes.
6). 2 units of new L&T developed anti-torpedo rocket launcher systems
7). 32 VL-SRSAM units
Will mostly carry 1 no. NULH helicopter. Sensors might consist of an Indian AESA radar, smaller then the MF-STAR, plus all the defensive measures like Kavach, Mareech etc. HUMSA-NG sonar, plus indigenous towed array sonar. Fire control radars for the CIWS systems like the BEL Lynx/Shikari etc. will be extra. Fire control radar for the SRGM too.
Total displacement will be about between 2,000-2,500 tons.
Except for the low endurance and only VL-SRSAM as the air defense missile, these will as good as small multi-role frigates.
NGMV? NGC?Pratyush wrote:A navalised kaveri* 2 + MTU Diesel seems to be a right fit for a ship in the 3200 to 3600 tons class.
But in modern context, this becomes a light frigate.
Adapting Kaveri for vessels is pipe dream you better doing what China did and using Zorya gas turbine. Given the Ukrainian conflict a joint development where we can build them would be perfect either with Zorya or NPO Saturn.Pratyush wrote:A navalised kaveri* 2 + MTU Diesel seems to be a right fit for a ship in the 3200 to 3600 tons class.
But in modern context, this becomes a light frigate.
It is possible any naval Nirbhay will use same L&T universal launchers. The weapon fit with exception of torpedo tubes and torpedo decoys is what is proposed for NGMV which is much smaller than 2000 tons.Kersi D wrote: It would be very difficult to fit all these weapons and sensors on a 2,000 - 2,500 tonne hull. Maybe 3,000+ tonnes
Navalized Kaveri failed. There was a recent push to have another try. No timeline afaikPratyush wrote:A navalised kaveri* 2 + MTU Diesel
Kersi, I have mentioned Brahmos-NG and not the current Brahmos. The 'NG' is supposed to have a range of 300Kms and weigh half as much as the current Brahmos. If we opt for the Brahmos, then accommodating more than 8 would be impossible. However, as the RBU unit has been done away with, we might be able to accommodate 8 Brahmos-NG and 8 LA-LRCM. The LA-LRCM is supposed to have a range of 1,500 Kms. Given that the Corvette's generally have shorter legs, the ship can remain close to our waters and yet be able to fire off land attack missiles deep in to pakistan or even into Afghanistan or threaten some troublesome gulf honcho.Kersi D wrote:It would be very difficult to fit all these weapons and sensors on a 2,000 - 2,500 tonne hull. Maybe 3,000+ tonnesmody wrote:The cost will probably also involve the design and development.
This will be a multi-role corvette, unlike the P28, which have a purely anti-sub role or the older Khukri and Kora class types, which are purely anti-ship or anti-surface type of roles, with almost no anti-sub role.
Due to the high cost, I would speculate the weapons fit as below:
1). 1 76 mm SRGM
2). 2 CIWS AK-630 guns with associated Indian Radar
3). 8 nos. Brahmos-NG missiles
4). 8 nos. LR-LACM
5). Two triple tube launchers for light weight torpedoes.
6). 2 units of new L&T developed anti-torpedo rocket launcher systems
7). 32 VL-SRSAM units
Will mostly carry 1 no. NULH helicopter. Sensors might consist of an Indian AESA radar, smaller then the MF-STAR, plus all the defensive measures like Kavach, Mareech etc. HUMSA-NG sonar, plus indigenous towed array sonar. Fire control radars for the CIWS systems like the BEL Lynx/Shikari etc. will be extra. Fire control radar for the SRGM too.
Total displacement will be about between 2,000-2,500 tons.
Except for the low endurance and only VL-SRSAM as the air defense missile, these will as good as small multi-role frigates.
Any reason to have Brahmos AND LR-LACM ?
Rather have 8-16 Barak 8 launchers
What power plant do you suggest ? I think we should opt for CODAG system with Warsila/MTU diesels and GE LM 2500 (BHEL made) GTs. I can think of a navalised Kaveri in lieu of LM 2500
Any suggestions ?
don't know if this guy is actually knowledgeable or not, about the GE LM2500 marine engineLM 2500
Light weight and compact with high thermal efficiency. Used for naval vessels and commercial ships as well as industrial applications. The LM 2500 which has been derived from the TF 39 Military and CF 6 commercial aircraft engine family is a compact, high performance turbine for marine propulsion systems and industrial power plants. In order to provide maximum reliability, increased life of parts and outstanding performance it incorporates the latest development in design technology and corrosion resistant material for engine components.
The LM 2500 Gas Turbine has been selected by 24 Naval establishments of the free world and powers a broad spectrum of ships ranging from 230 tons to 55,000 tons displacements. This gas turbine has also other applications such as power generation, compressor application. ONGC Mumbai has 5 of these units operating in its off-shore platforms
Engine Specification
Width (inches) 82
Length (inches) 257
Weight (kg) 4772
Nominal continuous power (KW) 24310
Airflow (kg/sec) 69.80
Facilities available for LM 2500 Engine
Trained Technical Manpower
Established Assembly and Overhaul facilities
Exclusive and proven Test Bed for the performance validation of engine
Strength and Effective Quality Control
The Quality control department is equipped with state-of-the-art gadgets, machines and equipment to maintain the highest quality standards during all stages of manufacture and overhaul.
@strategic_front
The engines that HAL license builds in India. GE LM2500 marine engine is the latest addition to the list. HAL started building them a few years back. The Navy in the uprated version of the engine (LM2500+) in the Shivalik, Nilgiri class frigates & the upcoming INS Vikrant 9:00 AM · Feb 28, 2021
All indications are Brahmos-NG uses the same VLS launcher as Brahmos and Brahmos-NG won’t be hitting production any time before 2030 at the earliest. They will be prioritized for submarines and aircrafts so there is good chance it is never inducted for surface vessels and Navy instead opts for Brahmos-2 and longer ranged Brahmos.Mody wrote: Kersi, I have mentioned Brahmos-NG and not the current Brahmos. The 'NG' is supposed to have a range of 300Kms and weigh half as much as the current Brahmos. If we opt for the Brahmos, then accommodating more than 8 would be impossible.
New Delhi: To benefit personnel retiring from the Indian Navy and provide them opportunity to work on merchant ships, a memorandum of understanding has been signed between the Directorate General of Shipping and Indian Navy, according to an official statement. The statement further said that the Directorate General of Shipping under the Ministry of Ports Shipping and Waterways has issued an order detailing 16 transition schemes for Indian Navy personnel to Merchant Navy. These transition schemes have been drawn after a detailed discussion with Indian Navy, it added.
The announcement comes amid widespread protests against the recently unveiled 'Agnipath' scheme for recruitment of soldiers in the armed forces on a short-term contractual basis. The soldiers recruited under this scheme will be called 'Agniveers'. "These schemes enable smooth transition of the retiring Indian Navy personnel into Merchant Navy by acquiring necessary certification to work on merchant ships in accordance with the Standards of Training Certification and Watchkeeping Convention of International Maritime Organisation," the statement added. According to the statement, the transition schemes cater for transition of personnel involved in engine room work on naval ships that is from rating to artificers to engineers and also provides options for those working on electrical duties as well as mechanical engine duties. The statement said the scheme also provides various options to Indian Navy personnel from NCV Ship to Foreign Going Ships certification. The scheme envisages acceptance of training given by the Indian Navy to its officers and ratings and the sea service experience on Indian naval or cargo ships on the basis of a certificate issued by the Indian Navy, it added.