Aero India 2009

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Feb 2009 04:52

andy B wrote: Also did anyone see a Topgear episode where James May got a flight in an EF and the thing shot off the runway like a damn rocket straight up in the sky...

it has a very impressive T/W ratio which allows it to take off on a very short run, and go vertical almost immediately with no AB, something that was apparently considered by Switzerland evaluators to be an advantage, as it kept the noise levels down at the airbase. apparently added points to the Typhoon's score, because this was something both the Rafale and the Gripen couldn't achieve.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 25 Feb 2009 05:28

Kartik wrote:
andy B wrote: Also did anyone see a Topgear episode where James May got a flight in an EF and the thing shot off the runway like a damn rocket straight up in the sky...
it has a very impressive T/W ratio which allows it to take off on a very short run, and go vertical almost immediately with no AB, something that was apparently considered by Switzerland evaluators to be an advantage, as it kept the noise levels down at the airbase. apparently added points to the Typhoon's score, because this was something both the Rafale and the Gripen couldn't achieve.

Yes I think I remember the pilot saying that he doesnt need to use AB or full power to make such a move....something that would be invaluable for QRA and intercept duties....hint hint...AA all the way.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Feb 2009 08:44

K Prasad, please check your gmail account. sniper wala.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Feb 2009 10:23

steep takeoffs and landings would be useful in places like leh, thoise, bagdogra(notorious for fog shrouded hills) and so on. the Viggen had a heavy duty undercarriage and a hook(?) for highway landings in middle of forest.
the gripen by virtue of canards(?) seems to manage off highways with a normal looking undercarriage.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 25 Feb 2009 13:37

Rahul M wrote:K Prasad, please check your gmail account. sniper wala.

Sorry Sirjee... not got the mail.... check if the email id is correct sniperz11s at googgel mail daat kaam....

andy B wrote:
K Prasad wrote:
Jul 17 - All 5 nations on QRA (someone expand this plz)
K Prasad, the Typhoon has taken over QRA duties for all the member countries. I read about it in quite a few issues of ACM and AFM will try to dig out the issues and see if I can scan of the articles. From what I can remember, they have two aircrafts on QRA at the relevant bases. There were also recent pictures of the EFs intercepting Blackjacks and Bears snooping near UK airspace...

Also did anyone see a Topgear episode where James May got a flight in an EF and the thing shot off the runway like a damn rocket straight up in the sky...

Thanks a ton andy... Great info... anyway just FYI, QRA = Quick Reaction Aircraft.

I did see the whole topgear episode - it was Hammond who was driving in the Veyron... great stuff.... there was also an episode in which they blew up a Reva/G-Wiz (the electric car) after it actually beat an Audi in a Race!!

Just one qn, if the Typhoon was able to go vertical w/o AB, does it mean that its dry thrust itself gives it a greater than 1 T:W ratio??? If so, that is impressive indeed... or perhaps they were pulling it with no weapons and almost no fuel.

venkat_r wrote:K Prasad,

Your write ups have been one of the best reading material posted by any poster on BR. It has a wonderful flow and a great story like feel to it at the same time informative and full of very nice goodies and all that a BR jingo would like to know. You should seriously consider wirting for SRR. Keep up your great job.

Speculating, but this thread probably outdid the TSP thread last week.

Thanks Venkat.... will try that... The problem is that most of my info is what they themselves said. Being an amateur, I have neither the expertise nor the knowledge to actually write a decent piece on anything without a lot of help.

Anyway, got some more info coming up. Just haven't had the time to put them all down. I had made a few posts on notepad, hoping to post it when i got online.... but the whole drive got corrupted, taking a couple of hours of work with it

. Also look out for scans of brochures from Rakall - I've also sent him some of the brochures I collected, so they should be coming up soon, once he gets them.

SaiK wrote:normally, indo-israeli information comes under don't ask don't tell mode till its caught up by some ddmite radar.

k prasad may have lots of info, though.

Not got a lot - this time, the israeli companies were quite ok, but were limiting themselves to Business and sales qns. Very little for media and almost nothing for general visitors, who were almost shooed off.... the stall people especially didn't really answer the qns, prefering to say no comment etc.... this was especially true of the missile and radar stalls... the UAV guys were a bit more patient.

There was an interactive presentation by Elbit (i think), with a huge HUD for the audience, and sort of like a debrief - it was quite impressive and did draw crowds. Having seen teh Elbit Dominator video at the Singapore Air Show, I wasn't really surprised by this, but it was a definite success considering the response they got... all said and done, we have got to give the Israelis credit for great stalls.

However, overall, I think the Israelis have stopped worrying about coming to sell their wares at AI... they have generated enough pull with the right people to have them coming to them. Additionally, since they know the right guys and the actual people concerned, they directly approach them to sell a product. The number of JVs and the visibility of Israeli products also helps. So overall, I'd say that the Israeli presence at AI09 was slightly more low key than in the previous AIs (remember the early 2000s - it was almost like seeing Israel wherever one looked - this time, they are more selective).

rakall wrote:Prasad,

Was travelling on weekend... missed the updates on Dr.Varadrajan & Revankar's talk till now..

Just caughtup with the updates -- and everything that was to be noted is there "as expected".

We are on the right path in terms of radars - including airborne radars.. We will complete the learning curve in 3-4years and then can play with the toys at will..

Esp the DARE stuff corroborates what was told at DARE stall.. We will be very very self-sufficient and cutting-edge in EWsystems in 3-5years.. we will have an excellent internal-SPJ and all that..

thanks a lot for the excellent updates..

Good to know that the info corroborates - we are definitely doing great in electronics aspects!!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Feb 2009 14:42

k prasad wrote:
Rahul M wrote:K Prasad, please check your gmail account. sniper wala.
Sorry Sirjee... not got the mail.... check if the email id is correct sniperz11s at googgel mail daat kaam....

yup, that one only. sent it from mail list only, so no chance of mistake.
sent it on sunday evening.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 25 Feb 2009 14:47

Better resend it, as google had some problem that day.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Feb 2009 14:48

done, thanks for telling.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 25 Feb 2009 21:16

I did not know where this might go , but folks do read this article. IMO the LCA is a great advantage and am sure when the time comes it will better the record of GNAT.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force/3

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 26 Feb 2009 04:23

k prasad wrote:Thanks a ton andy... Great info... anyway just FYI, QRA = Quick Reaction Aircraft.

I did see the whole topgear episode - it was Hammond who was driving in the Veyron... great stuff.... there was also an episode in which they blew up a Reva/G-Wiz (the electric car) after it actually beat an Audi in a Race!!

Just one qn, if the Typhoon was able to go vertical w/o AB, does it mean that its dry thrust itself gives it a greater than 1 T:W ratio??? If so, that is impressive indeed... or perhaps they were pulling it with no weapons and almost no fuel.
.

k prasad the Typhoon was indeed in a clean configuration dunno about the fuel but I would suspect it didnt have its tanks full to the brim.

I am trying to calculate the T to W ratio for the Typhoon, this is the formula that I am trying to use: KN/(KG)(M/S2)

Okay so according to the above formula 60(KN)/(989KG)(9.807M/S2) = 0.61 without afterburn. I dunnow whether this is right

as I am doing it at work

so cant put more time in it. Also we have to remember that the Typhoon is a twin engine aircraft and I am sure that it would make a big difference with the addition of the second engine even though it would be offset to a certain limit with the additional weight of the 2nd engine.

where 60KN=non afterburing thrust
989KG=Dry weight of the EJ200
9.807=Earth's gravitational field strength

Engineering gurus some help will be greatly appreciated here...

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 26 Feb 2009 06:22

John Snow wrote:I did not know where this might go , but folks do read this article. IMO the LCA is a great advantage and am sure when the time comes it will better the record of GNAT.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force/3

John
I am not sure what you are implying. GNAT is close to 40 yr tech or more. Who cares what some western magazine or western expert say about Tejas aka LCA. Why don't they look in their past before passing judgement. IMJSO (In My Jat Sikh Opinon) screw GNAT. Tejas will stand up and count when the time will come it is not so far flung. We IMJSO actually liked to be mocked, made fun of, be butt of jokes, when it comes time to fight every paki, chinki or anyone else just folds. Just because bhestern media has made Tallibunnies ferocious fighter doesn't mean Sh!!t. All these Arabic Valour is for cowards, not for us. As a matter of fact we (JS) are itching for a fight to settle it once for all.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 26 Feb 2009 09:34

andyB wrote:Okay so according to the above formula 60(KN)/(989KG)(9.807M/S2) = 0.61 without afterburn. I dunnow whether this is right

Andy, 989 kg is 9.699 kN. So without reheat, the T:W ratio can theoretically reach 6.2. This is the T:W ratio of the engine, and not the aircraft.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 26 Feb 2009 09:55

Mihir wrote:
andyB wrote:Okay so according to the above formula 60(KN)/(989KG)(9.807M/S2) = 0.61 without afterburn. I dunnow whether this is right
Andy, 989 kg is 9.699 kN. So without reheat, the T:W ratio can theoretically reach 6.2. This is the T:W ratio of the engine, and not the aircraft.

Aaaah thanks for pointing that out Mihir, I did think that I was doing something wrong.....so how do you actually get 9.699kn

So if 6.2 is the T:W for just the engine without AB. I wonder how much would a decrease of 60kn (30knx2 without AB) would affect the whole aircraft...

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 26 Feb 2009 19:12

DRDL brochure in pdf format..

http://ifile.it/qavxcpi

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 26 Feb 2009 23:54

As a matter of fact we (JS) are itching for a fight to settle it once for all.

hehehe good to have you guys on the right side

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 26 Feb 2009 23:59

Baljeet wrote: As a matter of fact we (JS) are itching for a fight to settle it once for all.

Well said prahjee!!! Chuck dey phatte te put de pakiyan dey t$tte!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Feb 2009 00:17

Baljeete, Dont mind lekin but JS is also saying the same thing. He is saying that the LCA will turn out to be a giant killer like the GNAT in hands of IAF.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Feb 2009 00:21

rakall wrote:DRDL brochure in pdf format..

http://ifile.it/qavxcpi

needs login!?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Feb 2009 00:26

I cannot wait for Pakbanis getting strip down spanking on their peachy bottom right at Wagha ..... in Lahore itself .

. Dahir ,Nehru , Gandhi mistake must be rectified and the slate (phatti) wiped clean in Satluj jal . Bakistan is the harami child of Zina and must be banished to the Patal Lok.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Feb 2009 00:28

SaiK wrote:
rakall wrote:DRDL brochure in pdf format..

http://ifile.it/qavxcpi
needs login!?

no it doesn't. 2 clicks are required. that's all.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Feb 2009 04:22

got it. thanks.
==

I have a question. When LCA flew during the show, any information on other fighter a/cs especially F16 and SH and Mig walas operating their AESA radars to capture the signature of LCA?

Any information of such emissions being detected, I guess would have created a big hullabulla, but with APG79 features, they could send some pulses for very short delta spike time, and grab as much data as possible.

just wondering.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2009 10:25

What is the big deal about LCA signature , LCA is not a stealth aircraft and there is no extraordinary effort or need to hide its signature , something the US will does with its ubber stealth B-2 or F-22.

From past info via ADA , the LCA has a signature which is 1/3 of Mirage 2000

Aditya_M · Post by **Aditya_M** » 01 Mar 2009 01:41

What is the big deal about LCA signature

Why tip ANY hand? If they get a hint of the reflected waveform, they can create better discrimination algorithms that will be able to pick up a low flying Tejas over background clutter. This info could find its way into the hands of our friendly neighbours on either side, leading to an edge that they should not have.

Paranoid? Of course. But I do not see one reason why I *should not* be.

However, the chances of any aircraft using radar at AI09 is highly unlikely; Do you really think the Americans want *us* to know even a hint of the APG-79's signature? Remember, a receiver is passive and they would have never known that we recorded it....

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Mar 2009 03:07

well.. does the passive receiver (ours) give signature of their a/c as a whole? only its active emissions right?.. which should not be an issue or riskier than having being recorded with details about waveforms, RCS from various distances. that would be very good data for them.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 01 Mar 2009 05:02

Hi,

Aditya_M wrote: However, the chances of any aircraft using radar at AI09 is highly unlikely; Do you really think the Americans want *us* to know even a hint of the APG-79's signature? Remember, a receiver is passive and they would have never known that we recorded it....

This is what Suman Sharma had to say about her two flights from AI-2009.

F-16 flight

Bear roared towards Mysore, covering a total of 90 miles, while I kept looking on the screens in front of me trying to identify targets tracked by the APG-80 AESA radar. After touching 20,000 feet and swimming back through the clouds, all of which gave me a ‘heavenly’ and a ‘divine’ feeling, Bear asked me to fire ammunition from the right side throttle onto my left screen as there was an air target visible.

MiG-35 flight

On the coloured laser-infrared screen I could see ground targets which were detected by the AESA radars, but I was told not to touch anything red, black or yellow inside.

Furthermore from AI-2007, this is what Vishnu Som had to say.

F-16 flight

Paul fired up the radar .. and put it into ground mapping mode ... the resolution on this Block 50 aircraft which had flown straight from the Iraq conflict ... was acceptable ... given the generation of the radar ... far inferior, though, to what I had seen on the F-18 F Super Hornet last year. There were (understandably) blindspots when we flew over a few hillocks. I was also shown the moving ground target attack mode ... where we locked on to what I was told were a few trucks ... the resolution of the radar was too poor for me to see what we had locked onto ...

MiG-35 flight

The Zhuk radar well, we did have it on for a short while and the resolution of the radar in the air to ground mode was considerably better than the F-16 Block 50 jet I had flown on.

Now, whether any use of these opportunities was made(by either side) is a different issue altogether.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 01 Mar 2009 07:06

Hello and Good Morning Gentlemen,

Does anyone amongst you know whether that second Su-30 parked there on the IAF ramp flew at all during the show & its reg'n ?

Yelahanka - February 13th 2009

Cheers - Vishal

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 01 Mar 2009 15:58

Prasad/Rakall:

Pls mail me at kapil at bharat hyphen rakshak dot com asap

Cheers

Kapil

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 01 Mar 2009 17:32

Kapil wrote:Prasad/Rakall:

Pls mail me at kapil at bharat hyphen rakshak dot com asap

Cheers

Kapil

DONE

plz check mail and reply

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2009 20:21

as the host country and with BIAL so close, there was nothing preventing us from installing a meaty 3D CAR radar at Yelehanka backwoods to ensure safety of all flying a/c and making sure they kept to assigned airspace. BIAL ATC is offsite and sure cannot control the airspace visually in yelehanka.

so actively painting of all flying a/c was surely done. but foreign vendors would keep the radars off to avoid giving out info and this would also nullify scanning of any Tejas flying at same time.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Mar 2009 20:41

3d-car is in s-band, correct? isn't air traffic control on the same?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Mar 2009 21:04

Aditya_M wrote:
What is the big deal about LCA signature
Why tip ANY hand? If they get a hint of the reflected waveform, they can create better discrimination algorithms that will be able to pick up a low flying Tejas over background clutter.

Yes Aditya thats being paranoid , no one cares about the signature of Tejas or for that matter any other aircraft , except only the VLO types ( B-2 , F-117 , F-22 ) which will be matter of great interest for military , both friends and foes alike.

DRDO has mentioned in its Journal that RCS of LCA is 1/3 of Mirage 2000.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Mar 2009 21:07

SaiK wrote:3d-car is in s-band, correct? isn't air traffic control on the same?

Yes S-band is operated by Civil Air Traffic Radar , the band is not a concern but the frequency these military radar operate on.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2009 22:08

well a batallion of akash with Rajendra could also have been deployed to deter terrorist drone attacks.

india have some many threats we can legitimately install a 18" musashi cannon near the main gate to deter truck bombs.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 02 Mar 2009 13:03

Kapil wrote:Prasad/Rakall:

Pls mail me at kapil at bharat hyphen rakshak dot com asap

Cheers

Kapil

Sorry for late reply Sir... plz check mail.

mandrake · Post by **mandrake** » 03 Mar 2009 03:02

Work has already started on Direct Energy Weapons, we already have single shot one but the one we are working one is a multi shot one with much less recharge time, the use of such is still not properly decided, or perhaps I dont know.

ps : i will put up some nice pics pretty soon! excellent pics and thread btw, kprasad and rakall did a marvellous job, I have to tell you they were carrying notebooks!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2009 20:05

mandrake, eagerly waiting for your pics.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 04 Mar 2009 11:02

mandrake wrote:Work has already started on Direct Energy Weapons, we already have single shot one but the one we are working one is a multi shot one with much less recharge time, the use of such is still not properly decided, or perhaps I dont know.

ps : i will put up some nice pics pretty soon! excellent pics and thread btw, kprasad and rakall did a marvellous job, I have to tell you they were carrying notebooks!

Speaking of directed energy weapons, check the talk by Dr. Saraswat (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... at#p624484)

We are developing an ABL type laser weapon for BOOST-PHASE INTERCEPT, with the collaboration of some "foreign countries" and private institutions... Lastec and dmrl are involved also.

I spoke to some lastec and IRDE scientists at AI about their systems - you would not believe the number of no comments and suspicious looks taht I got from them.

We have developed prototypes for the ABL in lab testing. The actual system must be a continuous puse system, with a couple of hundred kW of power at least. Prototypes have achieved tens of kilowatts of power on ground...

There appears to be a link between this and the Kali and other projects from BARC, given the surprise that registered when I mentioned it. However, they did not confirm.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 04 Mar 2009 11:27

To Add on to my Saraswat report, given the range limitations with the present range at Wheeler's island/ITR, we need to develop a missile range for testing longer range missiles. For this purpose, a FLOATING TEST RANGE is being developed, which will give us the ability to simulate missiles with longer ranges, and allow for a full range of around 500-700 km TBMs. It is currently being built, and will fire the missile from between Andamans and ITR towards the south, towards the Indian ocean.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 04 Mar 2009 12:54

k prasad wrote: Status:
To Do:
- Malkondaiah (DMRL) - Aerospace materials development in India
- Dr. Selvamurthy - Life Support Systems for Air Force.
- Talk with Saab ppl
- Talk with Raytheon guys
- Impressions about the F-18 simulator (I got a chance to fly it) & about the F-18E/F
- Will see if I've to add anything to the Rafale guy's talk.

Anything I've promised but forgotten??? Please remind me...

Prasad

OK... Malkondaiah talk from DMRL. Sorry if I'm not able to post my full opinions. I had saved this in a text doc that got corrupted, so I'm having to post it all over again...

For the most part, this was a talk about the state of technology in the world.... there was little info about what DMRL was working on, or has achieved. So a bit vague that way

Aerospace Materials: Present and Future
- G. Malkondaiah
- Director, DMRL.

DMRL is developing 2 categories of aerospace materials - 1. Supersonic and subsonic, and 2. Hypersonic materials.

Present day materials development depends on superalloys. Right now, there are 4 types of superallows in use:

- Fe (steel) based (usually are used for ground and armor applications).
- Co based - 40% Co, 20% Cr - lower temperature
- Nickel based (most commonly used)
- Ti based

For an engine, modern fighter engines contain the following composition of alloys, mainly for strength at high temperatures, as also low weight:

- Ni Based superalloys = 75%
- Ti based superalloys = 25%

Kaveri has the following composition. {{Note the differences, which points to the tech divide we have}}
- Ni based = 50%
- Ti based = 40%
- Steel based = 10%

This needs to be improved.

Ti based:

Titanium aluminides retain their strength even over 800 deg celsius, unlike other alloys which lose strength over 600 deg celsius.

Currently DMRL is working on Ti-matrix technologies for Blisk - Blade and Disc and Bling - Blade and Ring fabrication {{Other countries are doing this with the more complex Nickel based alloys already}}

One of the major problems India faced to now was the lack of a proper technology for titanium production, even though we have the world's 3rd largest reserves. DMRL has had a huge success in this regard by develop a modern, indigenous process for creating titanium sponge. This is a huge step forward, and is better than other processes developed in other countries.

A 500 Ton/annum facility has been set up by KMML at Kollam, Kerala.

Nickel Based superalloys:

Retaining their strength up to 1150 deg celsius, these are the most widely used, but also the most complex to develop and engineer. Much of the major work going on in DMRL has come after the indigenous development of vacuum induction melting in the 1990s.

Currently, Ni based alloys have just reached the 5th generation, when, quite recently, scientists in Japan have published their research. The 5th gen has been got by adding Rhenium and Ruthenium to the composition. The productionized level at present is 4th generation. DMRL is currently at the 3rd generation, but is going to the 4th generation with present developments.

Beyond Nickel and Titanium: Platinum based alloys

These can retain their strength upto 1300 deg celsius. Adding 5% Ni to the composition can lead to a 1000 fold increase in creep reisitance, which can be increased further by adding Boron.

This alloys have been used for developing Thermal Barrier coatings during the 1990s... DMRL is still developing the technology for TBCs. Incidentally, coatings need to be able to sustain temperatures up to 1700K (1430 deg celsius).

Kaveri Engine:

Provided a huge learning experience for DMRL. The Directionally solidified casting technolgy was perfecte, as was ceramic core development. Zr based TBCs are being used, and trying to indigenize.

The Nozzle is a Ceramiz Matrix Composite (CMC). The ceramic coatings used are REO codoped YsZ, etc... for coating, an indigenous Solution precursor Plasma Sprayed Coating process (SPPS) has been developed.

The Kaveri blades have a 50-75 um bond coat over the substrate, a think TGO over that, and a 150-300 um ceramic coat over that for TBC.

Hypersonic technologies:

- The requirement is for even more high temperature resistance, especially on the edges
- DMRL is looking at developing Metallic Thermal protection systems (TPS). A honeycomb-structure TPS has been developed.
- Nose and leading edges will require ultrahigh temperature ceramics, such as Carbon-Carbon and SiC ceramics.
- This will be fabricated using a combined CVI + LSI process {{Expansion plz, someone, anyone}}
- The temperature will be protected to 1300 deg celsius.

The Future will be CMC based, and DMRL is well equipped in this area.

Qns??

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 04 Mar 2009 13:17

AeroSeminar Highlights:

These were some of the closing comments made by the dignitaries (Please let me know if I've added this already):

Saraswat:

- There is a serious lack of intent on part of the polity

- Everyone talks about delays, technology etc, but forget that we need National Direction to achieve these and be on par with US.

- The Basic infrastructure is SERIOUSLY LACKING, especially facilities.

- He pointed out that while Japan had a whole lab working only on 5th gen Nickel superalloys, we had a small lab working on everything on metals, without enough funding and support.

- The Funding being given is not nearly enough, and worse, even that is being distributed. This means that we are not able to reach critical mass in many projects and areas... many a times, the scientists have to put their project on hold or slow down the work while waiting for the bureaucrats to release the next set of funds.

- It is not as if expertise is lacking, or we are not having enough skilled people. The major problem is that the courses in universities are not tailored for them, and we are not doing enough to retain them, especially when they can do so much more, and get so much more in private industry.

Saraswat was even more vocal after the talk - he faulted the services for wanted everything at no risk.

Gen. Sundaram:

- We need to admit our errors and weaknesses and attack them with full strength.

- For eg, even after 8 years of 1st flight, why are only 5 LCAs flying today?? Look at what the French or Americans would have had by now, or even the chinese.

- The problem si that we need to attack a problem with full strength and support and no efforts held back. This needs support right from the top.

- That also means that we have to leverage our strengths, and not try to reinvent the wheel when there is no need to - for eg, why are we (DRDO) doing design with 800-1000 nm when companies in bangalore are well equipped and are already designing 45-65 nm chips?

- The basic thing is not to forget quality and certification.

- Also do NOT give up on Critical areas, since everyone wants us to fail there, and no one will give us those technologies. Just because someone is ready to sell to us today doesn't mean that we should forget about developing it ourselves.

He gave the example of servo valves, which were denied to us 20 years ago, and have taken us 15 years to develop, after excruciating tears, toil and blood - so many times, it looked like the whole program would fail. But today, we have servos that are on par with anything that we can get abroad.

The same with carbon fibres. In fact, even LAST YEAR, we were denied Carbon Fibres for the Dhruv. So that is something to note.