Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

caesar · Post by **caesar** » 11 Apr 2009 17:11

swapna wrote:
swapna wrote:LOL it is funny to see some Indians getting so paranoid about Pakis. I wonder what will happen to them if they see a real Paki, they will be shittin in er pants.

And then make the paki to eat that shit.

Sorry Guys I was forced to make that comment.

COME ON GUYS WE ALL R INDIANS,GET OVER IT,PLZ.

HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE AWACS WE ARE TO RECIEVE

1)KW3551 AT BERIEVS TAGANRONG PLANT

2)kw3551 at berievs taganrong plant

3)KW3551 AT BEN GURION

ENJOY...........

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Apr 2009 18:18

thread cleaned up. stop behaving like buffoons and posting OT comments in this thread.
Rahul.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Apr 2009 18:56

Please go easy on the Caps Lock button.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 12 Apr 2009 10:18

caesar wrote:HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE AWACS WE ARE TO RECIEVE

1)KW3551 AT BERIEVS TAGANRONG PLANT

.........
ENJOY...........

Hi caesar,

mate if i may suggest, can you just post the thumbnails of the photos to directly where they're originally hosted ?
Reason i say that is because they're all copyrighted photos & hosting them anyplace without the photographers consent isnt the best thing to do (i realised it myself when back in 1999 or 2000 i had hosted some of my fav shots from A.net on Webshots & i got a stinker from the A.net management as well as the Webshots admin who had already removed my shots by then) i was a kid then and knew ZERO about copyright & all the other jazz that i know now since i started uploading to those major databases

So if i may suggest you to directly link photos to where you saw them, would help a great deal as you can actually know more by looking at all the details available in terms of Date, Location, Serial number, etc.............

Here are the original links to the last four images:-

Thanks for uploading those first two shots of the Beriev landing, beautiful photos.

Here's one uploaded today on JP, love the way it look from this favorite angle of mine

Click on the hyperlink in the Aircraft Details column to see more photos of it.

Cheers - Vishal

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 13 Apr 2009 21:46

An Indian Army soldier runs as Indian soldiers open fire in the air to disperse thousands of Muslims who snatched the bodies of two militants killed in a gun battle at Aglar, south of Srinagar on April 13, 2009. Two militants were killed, one Indian Army officer was injured and three residential houses gutted during a fierce fight between militants and Indian troops. AFP PHOTO/Tauseef MUSTAFA (Photo credit should read TAUSEEF MUSTAFA/AFP/Getty Images)

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 13 Apr 2009 23:02

please dont hotlink the pics. we cant see them.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Apr 2009 16:43

Indian paramilitary soldiers carry food to a special bomb-proof court at Arthur Road jail in Mumbai on April 16, 2009. Indian Abbas Qasmi has been appointed on April 16 as lawyer for Pakistani national Mohammed Ajmal Kasab. Kasab appeared before a special court at a maximum security prison in Mumbai on April 15 at the start of a case that could see him handed the death penalty if convicted for taking part in November's deadly terrorist siege. Kasmi replaces the 21-year-old's appointed lawyer Anjali Waghmare who was dismissed for acting in a compensation case for a victim wounded during the attacks. AFP PHOTO/Indranil MUKHERJEE (Photo credit should read INDRANIL MUKHERJEE/AFP/Getty Images)

Indian paramilitary soldiers patrol outs
Indian paramilitary soldiers patrol outside Arthur Road jail in Mumbai on April 14, 2009. The trial of the only Islamist militant suspect captured by police during the Mumbai attacks begin on Wednesday in special reinforced courtroom inside the Arthur Road jail. The courtroom, last used to try suspects over the deadly 1993 bomb blasts in the city, has been reinforced while a bomb-proof tunnel has reportedly been built from Iman's cell after he received death threats. Mohammed Ajmal Amir Iman, also known as Kasab, has not been seen in public since his arrest on November 26 last year, soon after 10 gunmen began an assault that left more than 160 people dead and more than 300 others injured. The 21-year-old Pakistani national, said to belong to the banned Pakistan-based Islamist group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), faces a string of charges, including 'waging war' on India, murder, attempted murder and kidnapping-faces the death penalty if convicted. AFP PHOTO/ Indranil MUKHERJEE (Photo credit should read INDRANIL MUKHERJEE/AFP/Getty Images)

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Apr 2009 21:26

Is the above shown camo scheme a Mumbai police commando scheme or are they CPMFs?

pmund · Post by **pmund** » 16 Apr 2009 22:26

It's the ITBP. The BSF, CRPF and ITBP have very distinctive camo patterns. CRPF has a combo of dark green, black and green in kind of longitudinal stripes. BSF has broad khaki and OG patches. ITBP has this very different khaki-beige pattern. SSB guys are know to wear the BSF-style camos or the old Indian Army issue

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 16 Apr 2009 23:38

ITBP? Really? Since when they started wearing uniform like this?
Why do they keep their shirts out?

pmund · Post by **pmund** » 16 Apr 2009 23:58

It IS the ITBP. Sure of it. They wear a khaki uniform also, as do most other paramilitary forces, with an orange-black-yellow sash and scarf. It's their working rig and marching order too. The khaki-biege camo is their field rig and it has been there since Aug 2005. It was designed by NIFT. It's supposed to be ideally suited for camouflage both in high altitude (where they are mostly posted) and jungle terrain.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 17 Apr 2009 00:12

Nice pictures..thank you mate...but kids watching those guns and rocket launchers?? I don't know what to say

swapna · Post by **swapna** » 17 Apr 2009 01:04

Venkarl wrote:Nice pictures..thank you mate...but kids watching those guns and rocket launchers?? I don't know what to say

Will be inspired to join the army.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 17 Apr 2009 02:14

Did anyone notice the 'American' way of holding the weapon instead of the earlier way, with the weapon carried on shoulder like a Gada (mace)..

Seems like unkils way of doing things are slowly seeping in, or may be its just this unit..

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Apr 2009 02:22

sudeepj wrote:Did anyone notice the 'American' way of holding the weapon instead of the earlier way, with the weapon carried on shoulder like a Gada (mace)..

Seems like unkils way of doing things are slowly seeping in, or may be its just this unit..

No. In populated areas, Paramilitary always held their weapons pointed down. As opposed to patrols on the border.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 17 Apr 2009 02:32

Anujan wrote:
sudeepj wrote:Did anyone notice the 'American' way of holding the weapon instead of the earlier way, with the weapon carried on shoulder like a Gada (mace)..

Seems like unkils way of doing things are slowly seeping in, or may be its just this unit..
No. In populated areas, Paramilitary always held their weapons pointed down. As opposed to patrols on the border.

It has nothing to do with which way the weapon is pointed (safest is up in the air, a weapon if discharged when pointing down, can cause deadly injury due to ricochet.)

The way in which the weapon is being held in the pics shown, is basically a grip in which it can be brought to bear on any target really fast. I havent seen this grip being practiced operationally either by the Army or by paramils.

So far, the Americans seem to be the most common group using it, they even have a strap in their kit that holds the weapon in that (unnatural) position, so the soldier doesnt have to bear the weight of the weapon in that position on long patrols.

Whenever I have observed IA/para mils in patrols, its the Jai Bajrang Bali grip...

Right hand gripping the pistol grip, weapon upside down, barrel pointing back, butt forward.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Apr 2009 04:30

sudeepj wrote: It has nothing to do with which way the weapon is pointed (safest is up in the air, a weapon if discharged when pointing down, can cause deadly injury due to ricochet.)

Ask any afghan/paki wedding celebrating ghazi that

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 17 Apr 2009 05:02

It has nothing to do with which way the weapon is pointed (safest is up in the air, a weapon if discharged when pointing down, can cause deadly injury due to ricochet.)

incorrect the Weapon down method is the safest method for Accidental Discharges. When the bullet hits concrete or mud it will not richochet. If AD is in the air the bullet HAS to come down with velocity and WILL cause damage to life or property. The Chances of richochet is lesser.

When those paki troops took back the Police Cadet Center and were shooting in the air on the roof they accidently killed a civilian nearby. Less chances of Friendly fire.

The way in which the weapon is being held in the pics shown, is basically a grip in which it can be brought to bear on any target really fast. I havent seen this grip being practiced operationally either by the Army or by paramils.

Many other advantages to it as well. If the Gun in that position (with the strap) you can have one hand free. If you are lifting a wounded Soldier you can use both hands with you weapon still easily reachable in a fire ready position.

Better accuracy in thise position if you are doing quick reflexive shooting.

Less threatening to locals.

So far, the Americans seem to be the most common group using it, they even have a strap in their kit that holds the weapon in that (unnatural) position, so the soldier doesnt have to bear the weight of the weapon in that position on long patrols.

Actually most Military forces on the planet use this method. Its standard NATO Operating Procedure amongst others.

Whenever I have observed IA/para mils in patrols, its the Jai Bajrang Bali grip... Right hand gripping the pistol grip, weapon upside down, barrel pointing back, butt forward

IMO bad SOP but then whom am i to argue with the Indian Army.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 17 Apr 2009 05:16

rkhanna wrote:
It has nothing to do with which way the weapon is pointed (safest is up in the air, a weapon if discharged when pointing down, can cause deadly injury due to ricochet.)
incorrect the Weapon down method is the safest method for Accidental Discharges. When the bullet hits concrete or mud it will not richochet. If AD is in the air the bullet HAS to come down with velocity and WILL cause damage to life or property. The Chances of richochet is lesser.

When those paki troops took back the Police Cadet Center and were shooting in the air on the roof they accidently killed a civilian nearby. Less chances of Friendly fire.

I would have to disagree. When a bullet hits any hard surface like concrete/stone/metal at an angle, there are REALLY HIGH chances of a ricochet. Rifle rounds ricochet off water.. concrete is much harder. When ricochet happens, there is at least one person in the vicinity, you

AD in air means round goes away from you, hopefully will land in an uninhabited area.

As for PA troops, there was masses of firing at that time.. they only managed to kill one civilian.. If they had fired at the ground, I can guarantee they would have managed to kill many more, including some of themselves.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Apr 2009 08:59

When those paki troops took back the Police Cadet Center and were shooting in the air on the roof they accidently killed a civilian nearby

Is that true?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Apr 2009 11:22

^^^ Yup. Also once there was the case of a CBI wallah who got arrested for killing a bystander when he fired into the air during a wedding.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 17 Apr 2009 12:22

sudeepj wrote:
rkhanna wrote:incorrect the Weapon down method is the safest method for Accidental Discharges.
I would have to disagree.

Any gun safety tutorial will tell you that weapon down (at an angle and not directly facing the floor) is the safest way to move around with a firearm.

An example of .50 BMG round ricocheting off a steel plate.

Cheers....

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 17 Apr 2009 12:42

Sudeep - whether in a civilian rifle club, NCC, service academies or regimental centers, it is always taught to point the rifle down.

Bullets fired in the air have significant ranges and potential for damage higher than richochet

rajkumar · Post by **rajkumar** » 17 Apr 2009 14:06

The way in which the weapon is being held in the pics shown, is basically a grip in which it can be brought to bear on any target really fast. I havent seen this grip being practiced operationally either by the Army or by paramils.

So far, the Americans seem to be the most common group using it, they even have a strap in their kit that holds the weapon in that (unnatural) position, so the soldier doesnt have to bear the weight of the weapon in that position on long patrols.

No, it is the standard in the British Army and I found no problems with it when I used it.

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Apr 2009 10:32

ON RED ALERT: A security guard keeps vigil as West Bengal Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee (not in pic) addresses an election rally at Naxalbari village, about 25 km Siliguri on Friday.

WB special Branch?
Also, which is the small arm she is holding? Uzi?

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 18 Apr 2009 15:42

I would have to disagree. When a bullet hits any hard surface like concrete/stone/metal at an angle, there are REALLY HIGH chances of a ricochet. Rifle rounds ricochet off water.. concrete is much harder. When ricochet happens, there is at least one person in the vicinity, you

I grew up in Tokyo Japan and by virtue had/Have a bunch of friends who are current or retired USMC Personel. They will all disagree with you. Did my undergraduate in UBC Vancouver and shared a dorm with Canadian Reservist and Ex Soldiers they will also disagree with you. Also known a bunch of ex Singaporian Garud personel. They will also disagree with you.

AD in air means round goes away from you, hopefully will land in an uninhabited area

.

Hopefully doesnt cut it. The Probability of Impact on something is CERTAIN. the probability of ricochet with the ground is not. And as the person above pointed out. Its not at a 90 degree angle.

Weapons down is the most effective and safest choice.

As for PA troops, there was masses of firing at that time.. they only managed to kill one civilian.. If they had fired at the ground, I can guarantee they would have managed to kill many more, including some of themselves.

Why would they fire into the ground?

Funny story about this anyways.

In highschool we had career fair in 12 grade and one of the people who came to brief us on his job was the Diplomatic Security head for the American Embassy in Tokyo. He eventually got around to all the places he has served previously. This included Israel and the Balkans (during the war). He stated that during the intifada many a time Palestinian Gunmen would fire in the air out of jubilation they would end up killing/injuring civilians nearby which would get blamed on the israelis or covered up. This one time a news camera got it on film and the team got their camera broken after the event.

Also useless trivia. If a 7.62mm bullet (or .50Cal) comes down on your head at a 90 degree angle (to the ground) with enough velocity the entire body disintegrates. It has the same affect as a bomb going off. Bodyparts everywhere.

s sharma · Post by **s sharma** » 18 Apr 2009 16:01

sum wrote:
ON RED ALERT: A security guard keeps vigil as West Bengal Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee (not in pic) addresses an election rally at Naxalbari village, about 25 km Siliguri on Friday.
WB special Branch?
Also, which is the small arm she is holding? Uzi?

No dude, she is holding the Škorpion vz. 61 and not the Uzi. Uzi's mag protrudes out of the pistol grip.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 18 Apr 2009 17:01

An Indian paramilitary soldier patrols a lane adjacent to the special bomb-proof court at Arthur Road jail in Mumbai on April 18, 2009. The suspected Pakistani gunman on trial in India for last year's Mumbai attacks will plead not guilty and has accused police of extracting a confession through torture, his lawyer said. AFP PHOTO/Sajjad HUSSAIN (Photo credit should read SAJJAD HUSSAIN/AFP/Getty Images)

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 18 Apr 2009 20:05

Much better picture. And it is a Uzi.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Apr 2009 20:14

damn ! I need to attend buddhadeb's speeches !

saggu ji, it's a scorp.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 18 Apr 2009 20:23

My bad. It is indeed a Scorpion
Scorpion

Uzi

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 18 Apr 2009 20:30

From Wiki:
The Škorpion vz. 61 is a Czechoslovakian 7.65 mm submachine gun (often classified as a machine pistol), developed in the 1950s by Miroslav Rybář
Cartridge: .32 ACP (7.65x17mm Browning SR) (vz. 61, vz. 61 E)
Action : Blowback, closed bolt
Rate of fire : 850 rounds/min (vz. 61, vz. 61 E)
Effective range : Sights fixed for 75 and 150 m
Feed system : 10 or 20-round curved magazine.

There are more WB Special Branch people on the podium. looks like the WB CM has his own close-in security.

Ajmal Kasab has in his statement said that they were trained on Uzi's in POK, because India's security forces operated the machine. Other than VVIP security, there is no other place where this weapon will be deployed.
Why did the pakis train them on Uzis?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 19 Apr 2009 11:48

rkhanna wrote: I grew up in Tokyo Japan and by virtue had/Have a bunch of friends who are current or retired USMC Personel. They will all disagree with you. Did my undergraduate in UBC Vancouver and shared a dorm with Canadian Reservist and Ex Soldiers they will also disagree with you. Also known a bunch of ex Singaporian Garud personel. They will also disagree with you.

Well.. my info came from a BSF weapons instructor. It was a long time ago, its possible I misunderstood

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 19 Apr 2009 14:58

Well.. my info came from a BSF weapons instructor. It was a long time ago, its possible I misunderstood

In India many of our SOP have not evolved over the years and have remained stagnant in the 70/80s arena. Military Operating Procedures are part and parcel of RMAs.

I once had a discussion with an ex Indian Army Officer about OPs in Kashmir. In the west COIN troops in the middle of an Insurgency or in open battle will never wear their ranks on their BDUs and will never salute their officers in public (Incase somebody is watching. they know who the important people are) there is no such concept in India. Little things like this can make a difference.

Another thing. If you have seen the video of the ex SG/NSG commando training Bombay Police notice the handgun firing style. Very few militaries still use that style. It is still prevalent in India. If you have seen the NSG pics in ashoka Hotel training its the same. The Style is kind off inefficient. (i.e Both Hands on grip and outstretched in front of body. Body is square). The better more effecient stance is Shooting hand outstretched. Other hand bent at elbow giving support to deflect recoil and body angled away from target. I have also seen vids/pics of Indian troops shooting hand guns with just one hand.

But then i am just nitpiking here.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2009 21:18

rkhanna wrote:
Well.. my info came from a BSF weapons instructor. It was a long time ago, its possible I misunderstood
In India many of our SOP have not evolved over the years and have remained stagnant in the 70/80s arena. Military Operating Procedures are part and parcel of RMAs.

Is there any specific reason why the foreign information is more correct than the Indian info. No disrespect intended but by and large, over a decade, I have observed that all information about tactics, SOP, way to hold weapons, way to dress, what shoes to wear etc follow one rule on BRF. If something done in India does not conform to something done abroad - that latter is correct or better.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 19 Apr 2009 22:13

Has this particular Para anchored his weapon to his belt at the points circled in red? If so is the purpose to keep the weapon safe from being snatched away, I recall a few instances of the same in J&K, and East many years ago (just like wallets available in the 90’s with metal chain and lanyard to keep safe from pick pocketers in India, while a fashion statement by punks and Goths in massaland )

If above is the case: then will it not hamper para’s ability to swing the weapon effortlessly in the direction of threat?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 19 Apr 2009 22:21

BajKhedawal wrote: If above is the case: then will it not hamper para’s ability to swing the weapon effortlessly in the direction of threat?

I doubt it. The chain seems to be really long.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 19 Apr 2009 22:42

An example of .50 BMG round ricocheting off a steel plate.

Amazing video! Couple of things: the bullet also ricocheted of the (mud) ground. So, just shooting downwards may not be enough in some cases. Also, you can hear a high-pitched sound of the bullet coming at the shooter and you see the puff of dust. First time I heard the sound, I thought it was an audio special effect.....from our warld-phamous Hindi phillums ...( ruk jao, warna goli chalaa doonga .....dhijj ..kiaaanoouuuunn

). I never thought it could be a actual sound made by a flying bullet

Instructive video ....in more ways than one

.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 19 Apr 2009 22:59

Parijat Gaur wrote:I doubt it. The chain seems to be really long.

While that is true and he has left some slack for that reason, it does have the potential to be an impediment to his free movement i.e. if it is anchored to his waist.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 19 Apr 2009 23:44

Is there any specific reason why the foreign information is more correct than the Indian info. No disrespect intended but by and large, over a decade, I have observed that all information about tactics, SOP, way to hold weapons, way to dress, what shoes to wear etc follow one rule on BRF. If something done in India does not conform to something done abroad - that latter is correct or better.

I am not saying the west is better per se. Armies evolve their SOP based on their experiences. However on the flip side the argument that the Indian army knows what is doing and hence is correct is also a fallacy. Its not a question of conforming. The other militaries do not do it because its cool or the americans do it. They do it because it improves efficiency and operational readiness. Better camo , Airbreathing fatigues , Camel back water bottles go along way for a grunt. Sometimes it comes down to plain common sense. we spend alot of money on heavy equipment. nothing really goes to the soldiers on the ground. And this should include money for training.

Alot of things like equipment , etc is based on money, Terrain , Threats and money for R&D for future research. Our uniforms while simply functional (gives the soldier something to wear) is nothing much to talk about. The tech involved in it is extremely basic. Weapons handling from most of the pictures looks combursome. Holding the gun on your shoulder with the barrel pointing up is going to fatigue your arm after apoint. Even simple slings are NOT very prevalent in the Army if you see the pics from J&K.

I mean i question the army after reading things like 8 SF soldiers killed to 18 Terrorist. I dont claim to know that they didnt do their jobs well. But after the losing 700 men in the build up against pakistan after the parliament attack all is not perfect with the Army. Infact there is ALOT of scope for improvement.

After the mumbai attacks everyone here went on about how well the NSG did. However in most respects they probably didnt. Some stated that an operation of this magnitude has never been done before (true) and nobody could have done it better is wrong.

We have seen Indian snipers with ghillie suits of late and we assume we have "snipers". But i have yet to see a picture of Sniper/Spotter combo. Keep in mind that the Sniper/Spotter combo has evolved in the west since the american Civil war days and plus their long history of hunting (including russia). So does that mean that we have gotten it right?

When it comes to small arms/infantry the west is most probably doing it better/right. They have done it longer than we have. They understand small arms better than we do. Their gunsmiths are better than ours. one of the reasons is that its part of their culture. Another reason is that collectively they have more experience in a lot more diverse conflicts.

If 9/10 Armies on the planet operate with certain procedures there MUST be something to it. The Americans, Brits , Germans , French , Koreans , Aussies , Italians , etc are all first rate fighting armies.

If something is not questioned it never evolves. The "if it works dont fix it" principle works only to a degree after a point concepts and theories have to evolve due to effeciency. We can dig our heads in the sands and change when push comes to shove or we can constantly self evaluate ourselves and keep changing.

Lastly when it comes to Weapons handling (as per the discussion above) the Weapons down position has upteen benefits to the way we do it (or dont do it as i usually dont find uniformity with the armed forces in this respect. everybody tends to do their own thing).