Indian Army Discussion

Shirish · Post by **Shirish** » 06 Apr 2009 10:42

Of the delay in deploying NSG, 2 hours can be directly attributed to a person in Delhi asking a bollywoodloving idiot to control with Mumbai police while he/she/it/they calculated the political fallout. And, the NSG was at the airport 45 mins after they were called.....and then waited for the order that forgot to come. Maybe this open secret will come out after elections as well.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Apr 2009 21:29

here is an email from a friend
Can anyone help?

Shiv,

I have a favour to ask of you.

There have been many examples of Pakistani soldiers or aviators being recommended for gallantry awards by India. Unfortunately, I have not collected these examples so far. For an article I want to contribute to a marine journal, I want to gather these; it makes a telling point, because to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a single example of the Pakistanis making such a recommendation.

Would experts in Bharat-Rakshak be able to help?

Shiv,

Colonel Mohammed Akram Raja was awarded Hilal-i-Jurat by the Pakistan Government on the basis of a citation written by Lieutenant Colonel, Ved Airy, who was Commanding Officer, 3Grenediars, Indian Army. The Pakistan CO counterattacked 3 GRENADIERS in the Battle of Shakargarh and failed but should great bravery!

Captain Karnal Sher Khan Shaheed, Nishan-e-Haider's action on Tiger Hill was appreciated but no official letter was given by the Indian Army. It is believed the unofficial praise got his his award.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 06 Apr 2009 21:49

I read this story of a young paki captain who was congratulated by manekshaw for holding out for a long time in his post. this was in bangladesh. Karnal sher khan is well known.

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 07 Apr 2009 01:19

******** = Sharad Pawar

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 07 Apr 2009 01:48

are we onto paki / indian bhai bhai bandwagon again?

there is a perfect gujarati word for this, only some gujarati will understant. it is called vevla-giri. trust me, there is no way to translate it in english.

even if the enemy showed "gallantry, valor, courage" ; he / she was out there to kill indian soldiers unprovoked. do we have permission from the widows, children, and parents of those indian soldiers who died to make a list of which paki terrorist showed "gallantry, valor, courage"? just so they get an award from paki government?

often times we indians go on these emotional ride and forget that we have not yet fully appreciated and respected our own armed forces and we are spending BR bandwidth on paki gallantry.

my ideal society is merciless on enemy without an iota of reflection, when we step on an ant while playing crickoot or chew on chicken while drinking kingfisher, do we think about the gallantry of that ant or that chicken when he/she came under the knife? are we asking the queen ant to give gallantry award to the ant that died? NO, we just step on it and not give it another thought.

Paki soldiers should be treated just like that. Some got away, some got trampled. Move on eat curry not worry.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 07 Apr 2009 01:57

caesar

Parijat Gaur wrote:
RayC wrote:Caesar

When did the US want Indian troops?

As far as I know we offered but they did not agree since it would upset Pakistan! And they require Pakistan as it is their sole transit route to Afghanistan!
India offered? ulEven if US was all hunky dory for IA in Afghanistan, would it be feasible for IA to send 50,000 troops to Afghanistan? Would it not put too much of a strain on IA? After all 50,000 is a huge number.

Is raising a core difficult?there are so many jobless in india,the ground reality a recruit coughs up 1 lakh to become a jawan in the army,we raised RR why cant we raise another core,the americans helped indians raise a force of 10,000 tibetans they provided sikorsky choppers n M4,the army and airforce had emergency commission because the americans were to provide us with huge amount of fighters n weapons,but Nehru n Shastri became scared.
The americans want IA to do their dirty work because the american people cant see dead bodies,for that the americans would provide india with everything.If u think tht the USarmy is good then its all bull crap ,they just sit in their cosy fortified compounds,except for the special forces noone in the USarmy is capable.
If our political leadership was so strong then why didnt they attack pak after 26/11?firing a couple of brahmos at some important military targets would have proven a point,but they are scared to loose the muslim votes,they say its 15% but in actual 22% congress,samajwadi party,rjd n the cpm all want their votes,so why would they attack pak,they cant even kill the leaders of HUJI residing in bangladesh.

Please understand if a chap can cough up Rs one lakh to join a force that will give him peanuts and maybe death, then there is something wrong with your figures.

Jobless does not mean fit for the Army!

How were the RR raised? From within the army by milking units of personnel and equipment.

skher · Post by **skher** » 07 Apr 2009 03:36

kobe wrote:are we onto paki / indian bhai bhai bandwagon again?

there is a perfect gujarati word for this, only some gujarati will understant. it is called vevla-giri. trust me, there is no way to translate it in english.

I assume it's a variant(or original) of vela-giri....killing time / timepass etc.

even if the enemy showed "gallantry, valor, courage" ; he / she was out there to kill indian soldiers unprovoked. do we have permission from the widows, children, and parents of those indian soldiers who died to make a list of which paki terrorist showed "gallantry, valor, courage"? just so they get an award from paki government?

often times we indians go on these emotional ride and forget that we have not yet fully appreciated and respected our own armed forces and we are spending BR bandwidth on paki gallantry.

Saar,you miss the tactical master-stroke this letter was....a letter not unnoticed by FDM and DDM who creamed their hoarse to make barkhajee popular.

Everytime Pakistan attacks,it denies official involvement - no matter how direct or damaging the evidence.

Hence,by accepting the letter and following it up with the award they acknowledged their involvement fully....something which was used by the then govt. to place more international pressure on pak....culminating in Kashmir ceasefire.

Also,we make a point across....the difference between US and THEM.Our Indian Army and the Pakistan Tribal Warfare Association - after all,according to ptv, all these many years,the kabbalis have attacked not by the gentry purified by canteen whiskey.

We made many WKK homes ones realize that Pakistan esp. Pakistan Army is uncaring org. one that has to be coerced into burying their wounded, dead and rewarding the meritorious.

Also reinforced the limbo status of & belief of alienation @ NLI's home - Northern Areas.

JMT

are we onto paki / indian bhai bhai bandwagon again?

Post-globalization,it is as difficult to be complete enemies as it is to be good friends.Remember the post '71 hockey match which made Mrs.G red faced?

Tables have turned '80s onward,the bonhomie is now more in the civilian sphere than the military - why, the wagah border shows have been cancelled as well; but the bus service continues.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Apr 2009 09:04

shiv wrote:
Shiv,

Colonel Mohammed Akram Raja was awarded Hilal-i-Jurat by the Pakistan Government on the basis of a citation written by Lieutenant Colonel, Ved Airy, who was Commanding Officer, 3Grenediars, Indian Army. The Pakistan CO counterattacked 3 GRENADIERS in the Battle of Shakargarh and failed but should great bravery!

Captain Karnal Sher Khan Shaheed, Nishan-e-Haider's action on Tiger Hill was appreciated but no official letter was given by the Indian Army. It is believed the unofficial praise got his his award.

Er could the admin who posted this reply please identify himself - you have added to my post by clicking the edit button rather than clicking the quote button.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Apr 2009 09:08

kobe wrote:are we onto paki / indian bhai bhai bandwagon again?

there is a perfect gujarati word for this, only some gujarati will understant. it is called vevla-giri. trust me, there is no way to translate it in english.

even if the enemy showed "gallantry, valor, courage" ; he / she was out there to kill indian soldiers unprovoked. do we have permission from the widows, children, and parents of those indian soldiers who died to make a list of which paki terrorist showed "gallantry, valor, courage"? just so they get an award from paki government?

often times we indians go on these emotional ride and forget that we have not yet fully appreciated and respected our own armed forces and we are spending BR bandwidth on paki gallantry.

my ideal society is merciless on enemy without an iota of reflection, when we step on an ant while playing crickoot or chew on chicken while drinking kingfisher, do we think about the gallantry of that ant or that chicken when he/she came under the knife? are we asking the queen ant to give gallantry award to the ant that died? NO, we just step on it and not give it another thought.

Paki soldiers should be treated just like that. Some got away, some got trampled. Move on eat curry not worry.

Chilax dude. There is a Kannada expression for a person who cannot imagine possibilities beyond the narrow confines of his own space - it is "koopa manduka"

Perhaps it would have helped if i quoted the subject of the email I received

"Chivalry and the Indian at War."

The whole idea is to damage Paki echandee and not froth at the mouth while doing that.

if you have information, please post. If its a rant you want - please back off.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Apr 2009 09:18

UPrabhu wrote:******** = Sharad Pawar

Sharad Pawar single handedly stopped the country from giving a thapad? I find that a bit hard to believe.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Apr 2009 09:40

MES on strike!!!!

Op Parakram dues: MES men protest against Army
7 Apr 2009, 0405 hrs IST, Ajay Sura, TNN

CHANDIGARH: In an unprecedented show of anger, hundreds of angry Military Engineering Services (MES) personnel, who were posted at the border as
part of Operation Parakram in the wake of the attack on Parliament on December 13, 2001, went on strike on Monday demanding wages still pending for doing special duty.

Converging from places as far as Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh, they raised slogans against Army authorities at the Western Command headquarters and said they were being treated very "shabbily" by the Army.

"When we were deployed on the border with other troops during Op Parakram, we had to spend money from our pockets to buy ration," said Mahinder Kumar, president of MES Workers Union (Ambala division).

"Unfortunately, despite having worked like true soldiers from December 2001 to March 2003, the Western Command has not deemed it fit to pay us our dues."

Sensing the urgency of the situation, a Colonel soon landed at the protest site and promised to look into the grievances of the MES men and assured payment of dues within a month by the command authorities.

There was full-scale force deployment along the Indo-Pak border after the attack on Parliament and at that time thousands of MES personnel from Western and Northern commands had been posted there as supporting staff to the regular troops. While the Northern Command has already paid allowances to its staff deployed there, the Western Command, which has around 5,000 MES personnel, both skilled and unskilled, failed to do so.

The protesters said matters had come to this because their repeated petitions to Army authorities and Union ministry of defence had been futile. According to the protesting personnel, each one of them is entitled to an allowance of around Rs 10,000.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 07 Apr 2009 12:30

sum wrote:MES on strike!!!!

First the ex-servicemen and now Serving Indian Army personnel - it is truly despicable. Why couldnt the Western Command pay up even after 5 years when the Northern Command has already done so ? Its being promised that the payment would come "within a month" - what about the previous 5 years?? Or is a strike needed to publicize and jolt the machinery to action?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Apr 2009 12:47

shiv wrote: Er could the admin who posted this reply please identify himself - you have added to my post by clicking the edit button rather than clicking the quote button.

shiv, that sounds like Ray sir....he always clicks the edit button instead of reply!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Apr 2009 12:48

deleted.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Apr 2009 12:49

sum wrote:MES on strike!!!!
Op Parakram dues: MES men protest against Army
7 Apr 2009, 0405 hrs IST, Ajay Sura, TNN

"When we were deployed on the border with other troops during Op Parakram, we had to spend money from our pockets to buy ration," said Mahinder Kumar, president of MES Workers Union (Ambala division).

What is this MES? It seems unlikely that it is part of the regular IA coz I have never heard any Army formation being unionized!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 07 Apr 2009 13:06

The MES is an organisation that mainly has civilian engineers and civilian skilled and semi skilled workers who look after the Armed Forces buildings, furniture, electric supply etc and also constructs and maintain the buildings and furniture.

The civilians workers are allowed to have Unions.

Ajay K · Post by **Ajay K** » 07 Apr 2009 13:06

What is this MES?

Military Engineering Service.

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 07 Apr 2009 13:09

In the Chhamb-Dewa sector during the 1971 War, the Pakistanis did send an appreciative note along with the body of an Indian JCO of 8 JAKLI.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Apr 2009 07:20

^^^ Sidhu, ASPuar, others....any progress on a gameplan for above, perhaps you guys are having personal discussions with each other in which case sorry to disturb prematurely!

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 08 Apr 2009 09:35

I have not yet heard from anyone...

caesar · Post by **caesar** » 08 Apr 2009 20:56

RayC wrote:Horses are required for the PBG, NDA, IMA and OTA for equestrian training for Cadets.

Mules for the ferrying of loads in the mountains, both in the West and the East frontiers.

Dogs are for patrolling, IED sniffing, tracking, guard etc

It appears that there could be a larger requirement for the latter two categories.

Though it is odd that the Home Minister should announce this!

Very true but doesent RVC have a LT.GEN as its commandant?then it surely would be having MAJ. GEN. or is it an additional post creation???

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 09 Apr 2009 19:23

SC notice to Army chief over disparity in pensions

The Supreme Court on Thursday issued notices to the defence secretary and chief of Army staff on a lawsuit seeking launch of contempt

of court proceedings against them for ignoring an apex court order for parity between the pensions of Army personnel whose service ended before 1996 and those who retired after that. ( Watch )

A bench of Justices Altmas Kabir and Syriac Joseph issued the notice on the lawsuit filed by 18 retired army generals.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 09 Apr 2009 20:30

shiv wrote:
shiv wrote:
Shiv,

Colonel Mohammed Akram Raja was awarded Hilal-i-Jurat by the Pakistan Government on the basis of a citation written by Lieutenant Colonel, Ved Airy, who was Commanding Officer, 3Grenediars, Indian Army. The Pakistan CO counterattacked 3 GRENADIERS in the Battle of Shakargarh and failed but should great bravery!

Captain Karnal Sher Khan Shaheed, Nishan-e-Haider's action on Tiger Hill was appreciated but no official letter was given by the Indian Army. It is believed the unofficial praise got his his award.
Er could the admin who posted this reply please identify himself - you have added to my post by clicking the edit button rather than clicking the quote button.

Sorry, it was me!

Poor eyesight is the only excuse I can trot out!

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 09 Apr 2009 23:57

SC notice to Army chief over disparity in pensions

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 13 Apr 2009 00:59

Breaking The Ice

Slump has made army jobs lucrative

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 13 Apr 2009 06:12

An interesting post by Air Marshal Savur

http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/02/uns ... piece.html

The Army says it is replacing the small Chetak and Cheetahs, the helicopters it is looking at medium range, medium load helicopters and opts for the Eurocopter. That has been shot down, whether for reasons of incorrect procedure or pressure from the global Uncle is another matter. And the left hand (the Army) does not know (?) that the right hand (Air Force) is buying 80 Mi-17 helicopters for the use of the Army!

The left hand (Army) is also making its case for medium-haul transport aircraft by chartering civil aircraft to show that the right hand (Air Force) is unable to meet its airlift needs.

For years now, with roads being built almost up to the international borders, the actual air maintenance requirements have dwindled. The Army has habitually “surrendered” thousands of tonnes of loads because it could not provide loads. The Army has used aircraft to convey cement and wood for construction just to score ‘brownie points’ over the IAF.

IAF learnt a lesson not to try to modify the AAR into a troop carrier in Dec 2004/Jan 2005).

how did the Army go ahead and create a South West Command without even the HQ Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) knowing about it, or tell the Navy or the Air Force about it. Why do IDS, Army and Navy vociferously protest when the Air Force wants to convert an under-utilised Southern Air Command as the Aerospace Command?

and much much more in the above post

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 13 Apr 2009 06:59

And an Army guy will counter - well why is the IAF in the business of procuring helos for the army??

IAF should restrict itself SAR and a few other limited roles leaving Troop movements, anti tank etc. to the Army aviation.

and the parochial, blinkered narrow partisan bickering continues

yawn.......

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Apr 2009 09:32

and IAF learnt a lesson not to try to modify the AAR into a troop carrier in Dec 2004/Jan 2005).

What is he talking about?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 13 Apr 2009 10:21

that can only mean the Il-78 but I'm not aware of the incident.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Apr 2009 11:05

OT but could this "incident" be a cause for going for the A-330 as AARs?

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 13 Apr 2009 11:31

Jagan wrote:An interesting post by Air Marshal Savur

http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2009/02/uns ... piece.html

The Army says it is replacing the small Chetak and Cheetahs, the helicopters it is looking at medium range, medium load helicopters and opts for the Eurocopter. That has been shot down, whether for reasons of incorrect procedure or pressure from the global Uncle is another matter. And the left hand (the Army) does not know (?) that the right hand (Air Force) is buying 80 Mi-17 helicopters for the use of the Army!

Mi-17 procurement is for replacement of old Mi-8

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 13 Apr 2009 22:02

A question: I was reading Col Hariharan's MI blog where he said that there is no memorial in India for the 1225 IPKF soldiers martyred in action in Sri Lanka!! Is this true?

If OT, please let me know where I could post this.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 13 Apr 2009 22:33

THere might be some sort of memorial in Bhopal inside the army establishment but no national memorial for the IPKF in India.

Neither the Army or the politicians care.

The Sri Lankans to their credit have set up one and BR has the pictures

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 13 Apr 2009 23:28

Thanks Surya. I can understand the apathy of the government (because we are all used to it), but fail to understand the apathy of the Indian Army. Why would they not care for their "own boys" who died?

Do you know what it would take to help move this forward? Maybe we in BR can take the lead.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Apr 2009 00:11

Note: I blame the politicos 10 times more than I blame the Army - but the Army big shots over the years have not cared much either.

Read ANil Kaul's book to get a sense of what he went through!!!!

The only thing I can tell is that failure is an orphan. A war where there was no unity behind - has no good memories.

I believe the odd attempt is made to revive it before it sputters and is forgotten.

ssmitra · Post by **ssmitra** » 14 Apr 2009 00:45

to Ray sir and all the gyani log here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 73#p652273
in most of the IA combat pics there seem to be very little or no Unit patches or insignia as compared to some of the western armies where even in combat fatigues the original unit, deputed unit as well as brigade patches are clearly worn.
Is there a particular reason why?

If more than one unit from different area is called into an encounter area how are they identified, specially by the line soldiers.
I am sure there is a way just curious to know how.
In most of the combat pics its difficult to know whether the jawan is from an Ikwani unit, regular IA, RR or sometimes even BSF.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 14 Apr 2009 02:20

From Orbat-

And talking about credibility...We hope the Government of India realizes it has ZERO credibility with the Pakistani jihadis. India has threatened action so many times and done nothing that we doubt the jihadis give the Indian Government a second thought.
Given the zero credibility, we hope the Indians realize that cosmetic gestures like air strikes or short raids are not going to make the cut. India has to act with maximum violence.
One of the options that is under consideration and for which the Army has recently trained is the Haji Pir bulge. In the 1965 War India took the Haji Pir pass (Lt. Colonel Ranjit Singh Dayal heading a parachute battalion) but India gave it back after the ceasefire. Retaking the pass would greatly shorten India's defense line because India would regain direct communications between Punch and Uri. Otherwise, with a Pakistani fist between the two towns, India is vulnerable to two-front attacks that make the defense of Punch costly.
This operation, if it happens, will require induction of two divisions, one on each side of the pass, to make a pincer attack while 25 Division (Punch) and 19 Division (Uri) attack straight west to tie down Pakistan 12 Division and pull in its X Corps reserve, 19 Division. But if the operation is not done right smart, the next thing that's going to happen is that Pakistan 7 and 9 Divisions are going to arrive and India will lose the advantage of numbers and the initiative. This is very rough territory, and there is a limit to how many troops India can concentrate. Pakistan is far less constrained as it is operating from the plains, though counter-attacking up-mountain is not a Fun Thing.
Which - entirely by the way - is one the more remarkable things about India's counter-offensive in the Kargil War 1999: it was all up mountain and absolutely brutal going. Of course, if the Pakistanis hadn't funked and had reinforce the Northern Light Infantry with two brigades, as well as attacked with a division on the Shingo River axis, India could easily have required 6-9 months to retake their lost territory. But none of that diminishes the Indian victory in any way. It's clear the Pakistanis did not anticipate the Indians would go up mountain in such force and with such determination.
We're giving readers some idea of the difficulties because we don't want people to think we're just another bunch of armchair generals. Having studied the problem again and again for 20 years, the Editor can honestly say he appreciate the difficulties and complications and risks of an Indian offensive in Kashmir.
But - that said - at some point an army has to say: "Okay, its gonna be very tough, but we're going to impose our will on the adversary and win." Otherwise you can talk yourself into doing nothing and losing by default.
One of the interesting things about Germany and the Second World War is that Hitler's generals at every stage kept telling him why things couldn't be done. That was one reason he took a fancy to generals like Guderian, who told it COULD be done. And Hitler's instincts were so supernaturally good, he almost won all Europe. But then he got cocky - always happens, doesn't it? - and refused to listen to his generals when they were right.
India does not have its Hitler (political a very good thing, militarily a very bad thing) or even its Churchill, and it certainly does not have anything like the two dozen or more absolutely superb German generals who fought the war for Hitler.
Which may be why India has gone nowhere since 1947, barring a short victory in Bangladesh which remained unexploited and which has created 40 years of headaches for India in the Northeast.
Mutter, complain, grumble, snipe. That's all the Editor can do now.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Apr 2009 08:59

One of the options that is under consideration and for which the Army has recently trained is the Haji Pir bulge

Is the recently trained "very recent"?

I will forever rate the Haji-Pir donation as the biggest strategic goof up in Indian military history...

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 14 Apr 2009 11:00

Is this news story posted if yes I am sorry but salute to the brave jawans

salute to the brave jawans, the communists have shown what they really are

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 398160.cms

22 CISF men hold 200 Naxals for 10 hours, save 150 lives
14 Apr 2009, 0524 hrs IST, Satyanarayan Pattnaik, TNN

DAMANJODI (KORAPUT): For 10 hours, a band of 22 CISF jawans battled more than 200 heavily armed Maoists, without back-up or reinforcements, and saved the lives of 150 Nalco staff who were held hostage by the guerrillas in Orissa's Damanjodi since Sunday night. The nightlong encounter took place in the largest bauxite mine in Asia.

The CISF lost 10 of their own and are believed to have inflicted heavy damage on the attackers. Bodies of four Maoists, including a woman, were recovered. Blood trails suggest the Maoists dragged many more bodies away. But the guerrillas did manage to get their hands on a cache of explosives. Two critically wounded jawans were air-lifted to Vizag, while seven others have been admitted to Damanjodi hospital.

When police finally reached the Panchapatmalli hilltop in the morning, they were in for a heart-rending sight. Bodies lay strewn. Some Nalco employees who had been held hostage were retching uncontrollably, while others were wailing. They all owed their lives to CISF men.

The survivors among the saviours — the three that escaped unhurt and the nine injured — had a dazed look but they still clutched their rifles, ready to fight.

Eyewitnesses said they had seen the extremists loitering in the area in batches during the day on Sunday, but suspected nothing. "We thought they were tribals going hunting in the forest since the Chaiti festival is on," said a Nalco official.

The Maoists launched their assault in the cover of darkness. A group of 50 attacked the fire station and took nearly 100 Nalco staff, including mine workers, hostage. They herded them into a canteen, snatched their mobile phones, and cut off power. Two CISF jawans were caught by surprise and gunned down without warning. As the first group set fire to some offices, a bigger unit headed for the 'magazine room' where explosives are stored. The 22 CISF jawans deployed there had sensed trouble and taken battle positions. The long night had begun.

Thousands of rounds were exchanged between the two sides which started around 9.30pm and continued till 6.30am. Eight CISF jawans were killed.

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 14 Apr 2009 14:31

Apropos SS Mitra's query. During combat and CI ops formation signs are never worn for reasons of OPSEC.The IA is more stringent in observing this than Western armies.However field shoulder titles used to be worn while on CI ops earlier a practice which seems to have faded away over the years.

Some Regiments like the MIR, certain armoured units, Grenadiers etc are very particular about sporting their shoulder titles, battle colours while in the field or deployed on CI ops.Some Sikh units have a field pag(turban) badge usually consisting of a simple chakar (quoit) in dark green colour.It seems to have become a unit thing nowadays.

In the field unit boundaries are laid down to distinguish each others AOR.However it does become difficult to differentiate between different units' soldiers if they get mixed up This is then achieved through good leadership at the NCO/JCO level.

The BSF has been asked by the Army to wear disruptive pattern field uniforms of a different type.