Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 16 Jun 2009 15:14

What will India get in return for thinning its troops at the border? Very heavy price must be extracted for such a concession. Do we get something in return or are we left holding the can of moral high ground?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jun 2009 15:15

John Snow wrote:The context here is not be charitable to India

Not charitable, but beneficial nonetheless!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Jun 2009 15:37

this really belongs on the prolif thread, but i still maintain that unkil didnt think the pakis would succeed in making a bum, and certainly didn't think that dragon would give them a bum. once these two (actually one?) strands came together, unkil's cunning plan to promote pakis to defeat the soviets came apart. at no time did unkil and his chamchas give a rat's musharraf for india's point of view

hard ball in the big league, we have to stop expecting favours or compassion from the superpowers and carve out our own destiny

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 16 Jun 2009 16:16

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/wo ... index.html

Multimedia profile of battle in Swat...

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jun 2009 16:50

PM bluntly tells Pak not to allow terrorism against India

Yekaterinburg (Russia): "My mandate is to tell you that Pakistani territory should not be used for terrorism against India," was the blunt message Prime Minister Manmohan Singh conveyed to President Asif Ali Zardari here on Tuesday.

The message, conveyed in front of television cameras when the two leaders shook hands before their closed-door meeting on the sidelines of a multilateral-forum deliberation, was so sharp that the President was apparently embarrassed. "Please let them go," Zardari remarked to Singh, wanting the journalists to leave before they could carry on with their conversation in the first top-level contact between the two countries after the Mumbai terror attacks in November.

Not sure what to make of it

The comments are funny though.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Jun 2009 16:54

sum wrote:The comments are funny though.

Seems like some smart alec BRFite types.

"My mandate is to tell you that Pakistani territory should not be used for terrorism against India. Once the terrorists leave Pakistani territory, they can do as they wish", said Manmohan Singh to Zardari.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2009 17:26

Lalmohan wrote:this really belongs on the prolif thread

It sure does, Lalmohan, and it also belongs to the US thread because it is such an overlap.

but i still maintain that unkil didnt think the pakis would succeed in making a bum,

Sure, who would expect a country where only 8 patents had been filed for to be able to produce nuclear weapons ? But, when evidence, very strong evidence gathered by the various agencies of the GoTUS, was presented to the PoTUS, he still decided to overrule all these and continue to issue proclamations to the contrary. It is not the question of whether one would eventually succeed in making a bomb or not, it was a question of the US following its own laws and the rules of the London Group (NSG) which it did methodically when it came to India. Richard Barlow belonged to OSWR (Office of Scientific and Weapons Research) which kept a watchful eye on Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme and frequently Barlow's reports were part of the President's daily brief by the CIA. Even when Pakistanis were caught in the US smuggling maraging steel for the enrichment plant or the oscilloscopes etc and even when the address of the consignee was a telltale giveaway, the US authorities instructed the District Attorney to dilute the case and let them escape (a la Hafeez Sayeed). It is an open secret that the Pressler amendment was drafted to help Pakistan and with Pakistani inputs to it.

. . .and certainly didn't think that dragon would give them a bum.

On the contrary. Robert Galluci, of the Bureau of Non-Proliferation within the US Government, got hold of China's secret pact with Pakistan in 1983. And yet, PoTUS believed that China wasn't helping Pakistan ?

. . .hard ball in the big league, we have to stop expecting favours or compassion from the superpowers and carve out our own destiny

Agreed totally.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Jun 2009 18:00

sum wrote:PM bluntly tells Pak not to allow terrorism against India

Yekaterinburg (Russia): "My mandate is to tell you that Pakistani territory should not be used for terrorism against India," was the blunt message Prime Minister Manmohan Singh conveyed to President Asif Ali Zardari here on Tuesday.
.
Not sure what to make of it

The comments are funny though.

Considering that MMS could have said the same in a closed-door meeting (and to the US too), I suspect this is ALSO meant as a message for Obama/US who have forced India to reduce troops in Kashmir.

This "meet" itself - IMHO - is to please the US. I think this meet was forced by the US - as part of the troop withdrawal fiasco.

IF all this is true - then Obama is forcing democracies like India and Israel to do what their people did not want the elected leaders to do. While in nations like NK/Iran/China he is impotent.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2009 18:06

NRao wrote: . . . I suspect this is ALSO meant as a message for Obama/US

Whatever else it is, it certainly is a message to Indians. MMS wants Indians to believe that GoI is tough on terror.

archan · Post by **archan** » 16 Jun 2009 18:21

Is there a link from a non-desi source regarding the Barlow revelations? nothing came up in google for me. I need tp prove a point to a gora friend of mine who maintains that unkil did not know when/how pakis got their bum or else they would have stopped them.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 16 Jun 2009 18:28

Archan

Barlow's story is quite famous in DC. The man who single handedly ruined Barlow's life after he embarassed Bush Senior - was none other than Dick Cheney, who was then Defense Sec.

See:

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/They_ ... _0426.html

http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm ... 135736.stm

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Jun 2009 18:29

sum wrote:PM bluntly tells Pak not to allow terrorism against India

I like this one the most.

By: Harbans Singh | 16-Jun-2009 Reply | Forward
The comments against MMS are most unfortunate and unfair to an brilliant, honest and a sincere person who has brought laurels and put country firmly on path of progress and professionalism.Has anyone given any concrete suggestion on what should have been done? There is only a weak hint that MMS should not have met Zardari. From all indications MMS has strongly and bluntly conveyed what India thinks about Zardari and Pakistan.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2009 18:29

archan wrote:Is there a link from a non-desi source regarding the Barlow revelations?

Archan, the best is the comprehensive investigative book by Adrian Levy & Catherine Scott-Clark

Deception: Pakistan, The US and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy
Penguin Books
2007

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jun 2009 18:30

SSridhar wrote:
NRao wrote: . . . I suspect this is ALSO meant as a message for Obama/US
Whatever else it is, it certainly is a message to Indians. MMS wants Indians to believe that GoI is tough on terror.

Tough talk needs to be followed by tough action!

As after the Mumbai Attacks, we all saw, that GoI was not going to do anything daring like self-defence, the minimum expectations is that it does not do anything like paying ransom to the terrorist, or keeping the doors unlocked so that the terrorist does not have too much difficulty next time.

On the one hand, the US wants us to open up to the terrorist determined to rain terrorism upon us, because of their strategic needs; on the other hand they want to punish Indian Companies (Reliance) who do business with a country, they consider terrorist but we need for our own national interests (Iran).

Unless the POTUS serves Hafiz Mohammed Saeed and Co., there is no need whatsoever to entertain US requests.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 16 Jun 2009 18:41

AoA..breaking news, after 'blunt' message, India, Pakistan problem solved onlee..now to chai bisqoot peace process.

Foreign Secretaries of Pakistan, India to meet soon: TV

ISLAMABAD, June 16 (Xinhua) -- Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday agreed that the foreign secretaries of both countries would meet soon for the reinstatement of the comprehensive dialogues, private Geo TV channel reported.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2009 19:07

sunilUpa wrote:Foreign Secretaries of Pakistan, India to meet soon: TV

What happened to all the following ?

Act Against terror to Resume Talks, Krishna tells Pak

No Talks till Pak Reins in Terror Groups: Krishna

Does GoI think that Hafeez Saeed's release is actually reining in terror groups ? Or, is there some Chanakyan tactic here that simple folks like me fail to understand ?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jun 2009 19:11

SSridhar wrote:Or, is there some Chanakyan tactic here that simple folks like me fail to understand ?

Kamal Nath is the only minister I know, who really showed it to the Americans, what true Indian hardheadedness is! He should have been made the Foreign Minister. SM Krishna should have stayed in retirement.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2009 19:21

Pak's 'nests of terrorism' reason for Afghan crisis: Medvedev

"It is clear that the situation in Afghanistan is directly linked to the situation in Pakistan. It is impossible to resolve it until the nests of terrorism are eliminated in Pakistan," Mr. Medvedev

That's one more to my list of 'Quotable Quotes' on our beloved Pakistan.

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 16 Jun 2009 19:23

They keep amazing us with their puny brains, mind-boggling lawhori logics, and un-comprehensible mardaanaa-talent.
.
But this one is devoted to the far-reaching deductive logics of a, hmmm... i dont have a word...., a paddu-stani??
.
K, as it's a gem so posting in full....

An Indian television claimed on June 13, 2009 the carcass of Indian famous nuke scientist Lokanathan Mahalingam found from Kali River. The scientist had been mysteriously disappeared from the Kaiga Atomic Power Station on June 8, 2009. The Kaiga plant is located near one of the biggest naval bases, Project Seabird. The scientist was working on the atomic plant since last eight years. Reportedly, he was in possession of highly sensitive information and might be doubted for Indian nuke proliferation. Mahalingam was involved in training apprentices on a replica of the actual reactor. So he had knowledge of working of the reactor.

The world most treacherous nuke proliferation is going on in India which made her nuclear programme unsafe and the most dangerous too. The Hindu extremists with the help of Indian nuke scientists seem to be involved in illegal transfer of nuclear technology to Israel and some western countries through underworld organizations to generate the funds for the completion of “Maha Baharat agenda.

Coming back to the killing of the Mahalingam, there is a need that case should be investigated while keeping in view the all angles in front. First assumption could be that abduction and killing of the senior scientist Mahalingam resulted due to his involvement in global nuke proliferation. He has been eliminated from the scene by the under world mafia on the instructions of some corrupt political and intelligence “Pundits” involved in nuclear proliferation. Thus, expressed supposition do stamped the revealed hypothesis since so called political gentlemen and intelligence lords were trying to avoid their names publicized. RAW and IB were probing the cases and Mahalingam along with his staffs working on the plant were under surveillance of the agencies since last couple of years.

In this context, the other appealing rationale could be that intelligence agencies deputed for investigating the matter of increased cases of nuclear proliferation might have picked up by them. The scientist was unable to bear the RAW’s physical and mental torture and suffered with death. Thus, the intelligence agency fired the already dead scientist and threw his body into the river to hide extra judicial killing of Mahalingam. Former Anti Terrorist Squad Chief Karkara has also been killed in the similar fashion at the occasion of Mumbai Drama by the RAW.

Anyhow, the abductions and murders have created panic and disappointments in Indian nuke scientists, staff and their families. They are becoming psychological patients because of fear of abduction and fatality. Therefore the working of mentally unstable and unsatisfied staff on nuclear plants is quite risky and might prove deadly for the people residing in the near vicinity of the plants. There is a general perception in the local masses and nuclear analysts that Indian nuclear program is totally in unsafe hands. The nuclear programme has become a hazard to the mankind because of continue leakage of information, accidents and stealing of uranium.

IAEA and US have a chance to improve upon their biased image towards the Muslim world and must poke their noses to investigate the repeated incidents of Indian nuke programme since it has turn into the great security concern to the world peace. Nuclear experts has the opinion that now it has become the moral obligation of Washington too to carry out detailed examination of the plants since she made a nuclear pact with India in 2008. IAEA should have an eye over the Indian nuclear programme, which is becoming quite risky day by day. They must know that nuke proliferation could not be stopped till the time western and American companies are not going to control and ban their own markets involving in nuke equipments smuggling cases. Berkeley Nucleonic Corporation (BNC), an American company and Bhaba Atomic Research Center in India should be black listed and banned immediately. The recent release of US document on the internet is another security concern in the serious circles of the Washington and need to be probing in detail since the list includes both government and civilian nuclear facilities and covering the details and location of nation’s 103 commercial nuclear power reactors. The murder of various Indian scientists, release of American list and provision of nuke equipments to the Indian company seemed to be intermingled and need thorough and serious analysis. Reliable sources{of a paki amateur journo?? } reveal that Obama administration is quite seriously thinking over the revision of nuclear pact with New Delhi.

In nutshell, the specious activities of the Indian nuke scientists and the staff working on the nuclear plants are quite alarming for the global security and peace. IAEA should ask India government open her plants for the detailed inspection, restructuring of intelligence set up, reviewing security system of the plants, revision of enrollment procedures, pay structures and enhancement of welfare packages be ensured for avoiding other incidents and involvement of nuke staff in illegal proliferation ( if not permitted by the government ). To keep the staff at ease further harassment and picking up of the nuke employees by the RAW and other various agencies has to be stopped.

http://pakistanfront.wordpress.com/2009 ... ound-dead/

Ya-allah! itna pak-bheja??

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 16 Jun 2009 19:29

SSridhar wrote:
Does GoI think that Hafeez Saeed's release is actually reining in terror groups ? Or, is there some Chanakyan tactic here that simple folks like me fail to understand ?

What do you mean? Hafeez Saeed's home arrest for couple of months doesn't count for anything?!! Compare it to Dawood bhai's freedom after previous Mumbai blasts. That's progress no? So Pakistan is fighting terrorism.

You kuffars always see glass half empty?

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 16 Jun 2009 19:33

Akshut wrote:Ya-allah! itna pak-bheja??

Maar dala! What a priceless find.

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 16 Jun 2009 19:49

Didn't see this posted...posting in full..

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php? ... ssueid=110

Mutiny in 3 Pak infantry brigades?

With reports of mass desertion, the Pakistan Army-battling the Taliban in the North West Frontier Province-appeared to be in deep trouble.

The tri-services intelligence recently made a presentation to the military top brass, putting the number of soldiers deserting the forces to be more than 900. Headlines Today possessed these exclusive intelligence inputs.

According to the inputs, cases of fratricide-soldiers killing soldiers-have shot up in some formations of the Pakistan Army.

The mutiny has been reported in three infantry brigades-Parachinar, Kohat and Turbat-with at least six recent fratricide cases in the army formations.

It forced the army to seek the psychiatrists' assistance to help the troops. The report said cases of mutiny within the Pakistan Army were on a sharp rise since 2007.

The soldiers' toll in the current operations stood at 370 since April 2009.

Meanwhile, the Pakistan Army ordered a manhunt for Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud in Makeen. Taliban leaders Maulvi Nazir and Qari Gulbahadur Jaan also top their list.

Waziristan leader Qari Zainuddin is supporting the manhunt for Mehsud.

The report said Mehsud has been maintaining contact with two senior Pak Army officers. The Taliban have extensive prior inputs on the army's movements, it added.

The army claimed to have smoked out the Taliban from its tribal areas, but intelligence reports say that the Al Qaeda and the Taliban top brass were still very much intact.

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jun 2009 19:53

Former Anti Terrorist Squad Chief Karkara

Damn, is Karkare such a tongue twister for these dimwits?

First, Zaid Hamid goes on and on about chief Kurkure on Indian TV (while the anchors barely manage to keep a straight face) and now we have Karkara....

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jun 2009 19:55

The tri-services intelligence recently made a presentation to the military top brass, putting the number of soldiers deserting the forces to be more than 900. Headlines Today possessed these exclusive intelligence inputs.

According to the inputs, cases of fratricide-soldiers killing soldiers-have shot up in some formations of the Pakistan Army.

If a few in the 100000000 evil Indian troops in J&K committing suicide was supposedly due to their anguish over the sins they committed, wonder what the actions of the TSPA qualify as?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Jun 2009 20:11

NRao wrote:
sum wrote:PM bluntly tells Pak not to allow terrorism against India

IF all this is true - then Obama is forcing democracies like India and Israel to do what their people did not want the elected leaders to do. While in nations like NK/Iran/China he is impotent.

Boss, your comments are thoughtful most of the time, but if you think India is held at the same equivalence as Israel in USA's eyes, you must be smoking some high-octane pot. Sure, there is pressure on Israel to loosen its bludgeoning grip on Palestinians for some PR value, (Arab-Israel 'peace process' is the favorite passtime of every US president; just go back & check the archives

). But in India's case, Obama has forced India to surrender to TSP. There is not even a whiff of an equivalence. And the US media, less said the better; each one competes with the other to show obeissance to the land of the chosen people. I better stop, or else, Ibecome an anti-Semite for saying the obvious

.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Jun 2009 20:14

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Or, is there some Chanakyan tactic here that simple folks like me fail to understand ?
Kamal Nath is the only minister I know, who really showed it to the Americans, what true Indian hardheadedness is! He should have been made the Foreign Minister. SM Krishna should have stayed in retirement.

Which is why he was shunted to Roads and the exteremly Capabale Anand Mohan Sharma wasted no time in making sure any niggling irritants from Indian side to WTO were immediately fixed.

Just imagine -- what a glorious FIRST step by the Cong govt. Solved the WTO imbroglio within 30 days, let alone 100 days.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 16 Jun 2009 20:25

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Or, is there some Chanakyan tactic here that simple folks like me fail to understand ?

If it gives any solace, (Late) President R Venkataraman in the early 80s was shifted to the then not so glamorous Defence Ministry by IG. Upon his seeking a reason for the 'demotion', he was told that it was keeping in view the need for a capable minister to oversee the upcoming IGMDP (Refer Weapons of Peace). Who knows if Kamal Nath has been 'shunted' to speed up the Golden Quadrilateral

Thus the eternal optimist speaketh

(Ducking Now ...)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2009 20:58

kancha wrote:Who knows if Kamal Nath has been 'shunted' to speed up the Golden Quadrilateral

I would agree with you. See, India needs to be both economically and militarily strong before it can take on TSP.

Militarily, we need new satellites, P8Is, AWACSs, Gorshkov, Akula, ATV, ADS, Brahmos on Su30MKI, BARAK-NG, Airbus MRTT, a few squadrons of LCA with MMR, Astra etc. etc.

Economically, we need to grow at 10+% GDP for next ten years, our Foreign Exchange Reserves must be 1 T USD, the GQ road project msu be completed etc. etc.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Jun 2009 21:08

kancha wrote: Who knows if Kamal Nath has been 'shunted' to speed up the Golden Quadrilateral

Thus the eternal optimist speaketh

Thats true enough, with his reputation I am sure the Golden quadrilateral will work out. The original point however still stands

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Jun 2009 21:53

Mutiny in 3 Pak infantry brigades?

As predicted three months ago, only no reports of afsars being shot by Islamic troops. Of course a GOI leak to Indian media-tut-tut the psychological warfare going on.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 16 Jun 2009 22:19

Selected 'Nuggets' from last week's TFT. My apologies if already posted:

Court versus United Nations

Reported in Jang Lahore High Court said during hearing of Jamaatud Dawa case that the United Nations had condemned Jamaatud Dawa for terrorism on the basis of racism and religious prejudice. It should have inquired into the allegation brought before it and answered some questions too.

Sufi Muhammad’s system was Halakuism

According to Jang eight Sunni-Barelvi organisations had united as Sunni Ittehad Council which condemned the sharia of Mufti Muhammad of Swat as the system of Halakuism. The Barelvi clerics vowed that they would fight against the draconian system of Sufi Muhammad.

India remains a threat

Writing in Khabrain Marvi Memon stated that transit trade agreement with India will only increase Pakistan’s difficulties. The government should not stop nuclear development but everyone should support the government in war against Taliban.

America will strike KKH

Writing in Jinnah Khushnood Ali Khan stated that Americans will sooner or later strike Karakoram Highway near Mansehra and Kohistan to block Pakistan’s connection with China. The Americans will use Tajiks who are present in parts of Malakand as Taliban.

Singers say music is haram!

Talking to Khabrain pop singer Jawad Ahmad said that singer turned Tablighi, Junaid Jamshed was wrong when he said that music was haram (prohibited). If it was so then all the assets of Jamshed would be haram. Jawad admitted that the Quran had not approved of music.

Shining India is a myth!

Writing in Jang Magazine Raja Javed Bhatti noted that India was said to be shining all over the world but its real face was hardly shining with goodness. It had the highest number of absolutely poor people in the world. Yet it was busy trying to become a world power by crushing the dreams of the people underfoot. Some men were using Hindu Tantric religion to rape their own daughters.

Terrorists are from Northern Alliance

Writing in daily Din Gul Chaman Shah stated that the militants and terrorists surrounding Swat, Buner and Dir are not Taliban but outsiders, Tajiks and Uzbeks from the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan who have come into Pakistan to cause terror.

MMA didn’t allow Army action in Swat

Talking to Express Magazine Afzal Khan Lala of Swat stated that when the MMA was in government he was attacked by the Taliban. He received two bullets while his nephew received four. Chief minister Akram Durrani rang to condole but when the Army wanted to go into Swat to help people, it needed ‘requisition’ from Peshawar to stage an operation. The MMA government did not give this requisition and thus prevented the operation.

American double game and our liberal fascists

Writing in Jang Hamid Mir stated that America was playing a double game with Pakistan pretending t o help it while allowing drone attacks on its territory. But there are Mir Jafar and Mir Sadiq type of Pakistanis also called liberal fascists who support drone attacks and talk of giving up our nuclear weapons for money.

Pakistan ‘na khapay’

Columnist Aftab Iqbal in Nawa-e-Waqt informed that during President Zardari’s visit to Washington one placard on the road said in Sindhi ‘Pakistan na khapay’ (Pakistan not acceptable) on which President Zardari got greatly incensed and said something in Sindhi that could not be reproduced in any language.

America wants to stay!

Writing in Jang Salim Safi stated that at first Musharraf and his Generals thought that the US was in Afghanistan for a short while and decided to help it but when they saw that the US was in the region for good they decided to oppose it by protecting the Taliban. So, Pakistan complains if the US leaves quickly and hates it when it stays.

Who killed Bugti?

Columnist Irshad Haqqani offended some Baloch nationalists when he wrote that Nawab Akbar Bugti was not killed by the army but by his own missile. In Jang he received a letter from them saying only one percent people thought army did not kill Bugti.

Jiyalas go ‘gutham-gutha’ in New York

Reported in Jang President Zardari went and met a gathering of PPP supporters at Roosevelt Hotel in New York and was hailed with slogans like Pakistan ka Nelson Mandela but soon the party workers clashed over their rights and began pronouncing ghaleez galiyan (dirty abuse) on each other which was followed by gutham gutha (wrestling) and ghoonsa ki barish (fisticuffs). President Zardari hurriedly left the meeting.

Pakistani media is ‘nabaaligh’

Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt during a meeting in New York a Pakistani told President Zardari that Indian media was attacking Pakistan but Pakistan was not giving it a befitting reply. President Zardari said Pakistani media was still nabaaligh (immature, in the state of pre-puberty) and will give proper reply after coming to maturity. On this journalists protested loudly to the president for being called nabaaligh .

Musharraf killed his own Air Chief

Carried in Nawa-e-Waqt relatives of the accused let off by the court in Islamabad have said that the air force officers and workers implicated in the attempt on the life of General Musharraf were arrested only because of their religious fervour. They said Musharraf arrested Air Chief Mushaf Ali Mir and kept him in prison to please the Americans and finally plotted successfully to get rid of him in an air crash. Mir died in an air crash.

Sufi Muhammad and Commissioner Swat

Senator Zahid Khan secretary information of ANP was quoted in daily Pakistan as saying that whenever he went to see Sufi Muhammad the Taliban ideologue in Swat he had a group of suicide-bombers sitting with him. He also said that Commissioner Malakand Javed Shah was in cahoots with the Taliban and had given shelter to a notorious commander Maulvi Faqir Muhammad of FATA in his house.

Col Imam speaks

ISI officer, Hero of Herat, Col Amir Sultan Tarar alias Col Imam, was quoted by daily Jinnah as saying that war in Swat was an American plot to kill people it was scared of. He said he knew the people of tribal areas and knew them to be defenders of Pakistan. If these elements entered Punjab there will be a crisis. The main problem is that people of Pakistan are not backing the government who would have surrendered the Taliban to the US.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 16 Jun 2009 22:30

SSridhar wrote:
archan wrote:Is there a link from a non-desi source regarding the Barlow revelations?
Archan, the best is the comprehensive investigative book by Adrian Levy & Catherine Scott-Clark

Deception: Pakistan, The US and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy
Penguin Books
2007

Archanullah, I have that book, if you want to borrow it.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 16 Jun 2009 22:31

sanjaykumar wrote:Mutiny in 3 Pak infantry brigades?

As predicted three months ago, only no reports of afsars being shot by Islamic troops. Of course a GOI leak to Indian media-tut-tut the psychological warfare going on.

Waiting to see whether GoI offers Indian troops to combat pakiban in SAWT..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Jun 2009 23:07

Phudubhoy Doing the Chores
http://pakistaniat.com/2009/06/16/perve ... #more-7365

It could be far worse. One could imagine that Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is overthrown in a coup by radical Islamist officers who seize control of the country’s nuclear weapons, making intervention by outside forces impossible. Jihad for liberating Kashmir is subsequently declared as Pakistan’s highest priority and earlier policies for crossing the Line of Control are revived; Shias are expelled into Iran, and Hindus are forced into India; ethnic and religious minorities in the Northern Areas flee Pashtun invaders; anti-Taliban forces such as the ethnic Muttahida Qaumi Movement and the Baluch nationalists are decisively crushed by Islamists; and sharia is declared across the country. Fortunately, this seems improbable–as long as the army stays together.
Although better financial monitoring is needed, Pakistan’s support lifeline must not be cut, or economic collapse (and certain Taliban victory) would follow in a matter of months. The government and army must be kept afloat until Pakistan is fully ready to take on extremism by itself. The United States also should initiate a conference that brings Iran, India, and China together. Each of these countries must recognize that extremism represents a regional as well as global danger, and they must formulate an action plan aimed at squeezing the extremists.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Jun 2009 23:43

Wow this is big. Abu Zubaida is not AlQ no 3 ?

Washingtonpost wrote: CIA Mistaken on 'High-Value' Detainee, Document Shows

An al-Qaeda associate captured by the CIA and subjected to harsh interrogation techniques said his jailers later told him they had mistakenly thought he was the No. 3 man in the organization's hierarchy and a partner of Osama bin Laden, according to newly released excerpts from a 2007 hearing. "They told me, 'Sorry, we discover that you are not Number 3, not a partner, not even a fighter,' " said Abu Zubaida.

Intelligence, military and law enforcement sources told The Washington Post this year that officials later concluded he was a Pakistan-based "fixer" for radical Islamist ideologues, but not a formal member of al-Qaeda, much less one of its leaders.

President George W. Bush described Abu Zubaida in 2002 as "al-Qaeda's chief of operations." Intelligence, military and law enforcement....Abu Zubaida, 38, was subjected 83 times to waterboarding...told the 2007 panel of military officers at the detention facility in Cuba that "doctors told me that I nearly died four times"

When referring to his treatment at CIA "black site" prisons, the Pakistani's transcript is blacked out for eight consecutive pages. In the version released earlier, this entire section was marked by a single word: "REDACTED."

No wonder Cheney is defending torture. And it turns out Mushy has been passing on duplicate maal for all the money. Also note that it came out in 2007 that this guy was a nobody, yet in all MSM he is portrayed as a guy who held information about "ticking time bombs" and thus justifies torture.

archan · Post by **archan** » 17 Jun 2009 00:47

sunilUpa wrote:
Archanullah, I have that book, if you want to borrow it.

Would love to. Let me get done with that interview next week.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 17 Jun 2009 01:22

Next installment in Shahryar Khan's memoirs, from last weeek's TFT. Posting in full. Admins please edit if inappropriate:

In the service of Pakistan

Shaharyar Muhammad Khan recalls his early career as a diplomat

In 1957, my mother Princess Abida Sultan of Bhopal was made Pakistan’s ambassador to Brazil. She didn’t like the experience very much, since the diplomatic lifestyle did not appeal to her. She came back to Karachi in 1958.

In 1958, Iskander Mirza tried to bring about a reconciliation between my mother and my grandfather, Nawab Hamidullah. My mother and her father had been estranged for years, following his second marriage and his expectation of my mother that she would stay on in Bhopal which she did not fulfill and migrated to Pakistan. My mother was in Brazil during this time, and could not meet her father, but they began exchanging birthday greetings. My grandfather had a heart attack that very year. It seemed as if they were heading towards patching up their relationship. Unfortunately, the process of reconciliation between father and daughter was cut short in 1960, when His Highness Nawab Hamidullah Khan of Bhopal died.

At the time of His Highness’ death, a dispute arose over who was to succeed him to the titular rule of Bhopal. The Indian government suggested that my mother take up his mantle, but she insisted that she would hold firm to her commitment to Pakistan. Even the Pakistani government of that time suggested that she lay claim to the throne. My mother refused, and told Ayub Khan’s government that she herself personally would not lay any claim, but if the Pakistani government wished to do so on her behalf, they could. Eventually, His Highness’ second daughter (and my aunt) Sajida Sultan Begum succeeded him, and the dispute over the succession was thus resolved.

It was at this time that Miss Fatima Jinnah began to campaign against Ayub Khan for the presidential elections. My mother, always a democrat at heart, eventually associated herself with Miss Fatima Jinnah, joining the opposition to the rule of Ayub Khan. Miss Jinnah, despite being immensely popular, eventually could not come to power.

As a result of her alignment with Miss Jinnah, the case of my mother’s compensation for her property in Bhopal became a casualty to politics, and she was denied her rightful claim. Eventually, out of a total compensation of several million rupees to which she was entitled, she received only the paltry sum of a few hundred thousand rupees. But she never insisted or pressed her claim beyond a dignified level.

In the meantime, having gone through a short stint at Burma Shell Oil, and realizing that this career was not my true vocation, I entered the Pakistan Foreign Service. Having completed my training by 1960, I began my diplomatic career with a posting as Third Secretary at the Pakistani High Commission in London. One of my most interesting assignments in the early part of my career came in 1962, when I was posted as Second Secretary in the Pakistani embassy at Tunis. At that time, the Pakistani ambassador to Tunisia was Sardar Ghayyur.

I greatly admired the Tunisian premier, Habib Bourguiba, and his enlightened, modernist interpretation of Islam. I learnt a lot in Tunisia, and saw Bourguiba as the quintessential liberal, progressive Muslim.

Pakistan had played an important role in the independence struggle of Tunisia and Morocco from French colonial rule. Moroccans and Tunisians were sent as part of the Pakistani delegation to the UN, to plead the cause of their independence. In his efforts to promote the cause of Tunisian independence from French colonialism, Bourguiba also toured Karachi. I found that now, having achieved independence, Tunisia was an enlightened Muslim state: forward-looking and yet deeply rooted in its rich Islamic and North African heritage.

When I was posted to Tunis, I became aware from the very beginning of the immense goodwill which the Tunisian people had for Pakistanis. I received a lot of help in finding accommodation and in settling down. When Tunisian people found out that I was Pakistani, they would say “Are you Pakistani? Long live Zafarullah!” This was a reference to the famous Pakistani ambassador to the UN, who had assisted the Tunisians and Moroccans in presenting their case for independence from French rule.

I was particularly impressed by the erudition and enlightenment of the ulema in Tunisia, especially Sheikh Fadhel bin Achour, the Grand Mufti. We invited him to speak at an Iqbal Day function organized by the Pakistan embassy. I was surprised when he spoke for forty minutes on various aspects of Iqbal’s life and thought – and that too without notes. It turned out that he had studied both Western and Eastern philosophy in great depth. For me it was amazing to see that a Tunisian knew more about Iqbal than we do, even though we consider ourselves the direct inheritors of his intellectual and philosophical legacy.

I would approach Sheikh Fadhel bin Achour with all sorts of questions on Islamic issues, such as the question of riba (interest), the meaning of Shariah law. His answers were simple and edifying, based on his brilliant scholarship. Even at that time, I yearned for the day when we in Pakistan would have ulema with the same level of erudition and scholarship as those I found in Tunisia.

When the 1965 war broke out, I was still posted there. We would get reports everyday that our armed forces were very successful, and had repulsed the Indians at various locations. Then came the peace deal at Tashkent, and we were confronted by the bare truth: that in this war, we had not succeeded in changing the status quo in Kashmir, and that our strategic aims in the region had not been fulfilled by seeking a confrontation with India.

In 1966, I was called back to Pakistan. I spent the next four years at the Foreign Service Headquarters. This is where diplomats really learn their trade. Compared to headquarters, embassy postings are like a picnic. I learnt a lot from the then Foreign Secretary, S. M. Yusuf. He was a superb boss. He had been close to Jinnah and was later the principal secretary to Ayub Khan.

I was happy to be with my mother again. The Foreign Service Headquarters had shifted to the new capital, Islamabad. My wife Minnal and I had two children by then, and we moved to Islamabad. My mother still lived in Karachi, but visited us regularly. It was a happy time.

Shahryar M Khan, a distinguished diplomat and former Chairman Pakistan Cricket Board lives in Lahore

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 17 Jun 2009 02:03

Sunil garu>> Remember the sanskrit saying

"PUSTHAKAM VANITHA VITTHAM PARA-HASTHA-GATHAM, GATHAM!

ADHAVAA PUNAR-AGACCHETJEERNAM BHRASHTAA CHA KHANDASAH !!"

I loaned a book oauto biography of Mikoyan test pilot worth$45 in 2000 to one of our esteemed members, I am still awaiting its return" I hope the guruji who borrowed will return at least now, otherwise it will be a data point in confirmation of the saying. hint hint

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Jun 2009 02:15

Lots of cowardice, subterfuge, delusion: "India is on its way to great power status" bla bla in this NYT report on MMS TSP love fest; but what got my goat was this from a retired army general:

“It is in India’s interest to carry on talking,” said Dipankar Banerjee, a retired major general of the Indian army who now directs the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, a Delhi-based research institution. “India can contribute to the destabilization and destruction of Pakistan in five to ten years. But if you want a stable, secure Pakistan, you need to follow a different course.”

First of all, if this is how military generals think, stable, secure TSP ..., God save India. Furthermore, his maacho BS about India contributing to TSP's demise also cuts no ice. Other than defending India from TSP's brazen aggression (and hats off to Indian army for that), but at a precious cost of Indian soldiers' lives, India has not paid TSP back. Equal equal suits TSP just fine. The only hard blow India has struck is the shooting down of a TSP navy plane several years back; or else its has been TSP delivering all the punches, and India showing the other cheeck.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 17 Jun 2009 02:24

In this context, the other appealing rationale could be that intelligence agencies deputed for investigating the matter of increased cases of nuclear proliferation might have picked up by them. The scientist was unable to bear the RAW’s physical and mental torture and suffered with death. Thus, the intelligence agency fired the already dead scientist and threw his body into the river to hide extra judicial killing of Mahalingam. Former Anti Terrorist Squad Chief Karkara has also been killed in the similar fashion at the occasion of Mumbai Drama by the RAW.

Anyhow, the abductions and murders have created panic and disappointments in Indian nuke scientists, staff and their families. They are becoming psychological patients because of fear of abduction and fatality. Therefore the working of mentally unstable and unsatisfied staff on nuclear plants is quite risky and might prove deadly for the people residing in the near vicinity of the plants. There is a general perception in the local masses and nuclear analysts that Indian nuclear program is totally in unsafe hands. The nuclear programme has become a hazard to the mankind because of continue leakage of information, accidents and stealing of uranium.

No one quite shoots fire out of the a$$ like a Pakistani Mohamedan.