Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

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RayC
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

ramana wrote:Hyderabad was supposed to be that and there is an arrangement for the President to stay in Hyderabad for short period of three months or so. It was like that in the 60s. Dont know if it still in continuation or not. The idea was for people in South to be able to access the President without having to go to Delhi. There is a Bhavan also for this purpose.
Ramana,

If I am not mistaken the President's Residence is in Secunderabad Cantt.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

Identity is derived from the environment that is around us. As children we have a jumble of diverse biological and psychological processes over which we have no cohesive control. However, as we grow up, identifying with events, personalities and the environment, we Are influenced and develop a personality and an identity. So, from all the things that appeal to us in the world, we create images of how we want to see ourselves, and then we set about making ourselves “seen” in the world so our images can be reflected back to us through the desire of others.

The family and the School plays a significant role to shape national identity since it inculcates the social values, historical information, national ideals, attitudes, values, emotions, that are transmitted to the individual and contribute to the formation of his / her national identity.

Whether national identity is an imagined characteristic or not, should be judged from the consequences on personality and communication. No matter how subjective, obscure and elusive national identity itself may be, it is more important to determine the ways in which it influences or even determines thought, emotion and behaviour. Mores so, when feelings of national pride and patriotism are manipulated by political and military authorities for the sake of imperialistic or other unethical purposes. The fact that the content of national identity is something conventional has been clearly illustrated by many scholars. All its constituents, traditions, borders, customs, cultural elements and so forth are "agreed" and established through repetition or preservation in time. What is more, national identity is, as mentioned above, completely subjective and individualised; it cannot be circumscribed precisely.

While the aim is not to put the cat amongst the pigeons, it is worth analysis as to the effect of language, regionalism, federalism or even religion (secularism vs pseudo secularism) on being constructive in fostering our national identity or, is it crating schisms.

Most persons are wedded to the values, culture and tradition of his region, religion, language, culture et al. Therefore, is it correct to impose the regional identity, values, language and aspirations of another region, merely because there is a statistically ‘manipulated’ majority of that region?

And yet, unless there is one-ness of national identity, how can a Nation face as one against adversaries and adversities that visit the nation?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Following on from discussion on the J&K thread, there appears to be a need to look back at the question.


First there appears to be a complacency that it would be suicidal for any party to give up J&K to TSP in one way or another.

At the current moment, the popular media - including the most impact -TV, has prepared the grounds well by foisting the idea and increasing the tolerance level towards the idea of compromises. A 26/11 at Mumbai did not have any effect apparently on what turned out to be electoral expression of the popular will.

Secularism of the French variety - what I term non-compromising and "uniformly intolerant" secularism, would have made it suicidal. In India, the secularism that has been carefully nurtured, is a compromising and "selectively intolerant" secularism at best, and basically an ideological vacuum that is designed to help personality cults and dynastic pretenses to become sole "national unifiers" at the worst.

The whole rashtryia propaganda machinery, including the media, is steeped in this self-delusion. But this elite's repeated bartering mentality, by which the elite has time and again bartered away populations and regions to maintain their hold on political power has been seen for centuries. Including, the shenanigans of the Partition.

The elite of India has always managed to promote and use social fractures in identity to come to understanding with anti-Indian forces. In this on the one hand they have carefully emasculated the common Indian both militarily and ideologically. The commons have not been allowed to retain any military power to resist the coercive forces at the hands of the rashtryia machine in continuation with British colonial policy. The ideological structures that had allowed the commons to fight back against "invaders" have been deliberately deconstructed and falsified so that no political base independent of personality cults and dynasties can challenge the regime.

On the other hand they have had to rely in external forces for their own power because of this very self-goal of weakening the indigenous forces. They think nothing of bartering away regions or populations. The blood and tears and suffering of commons means nothing for this elite. Have you never felt the urge to soundly slap the rosy cheeks of those who gave wonderful "historical" speeches at attaining "independence" where the shame, trauma, agony of millions caught in the Partition violence is reduced to a few sentences that compare it to necessary labour-pains of a feminized "nation"?

If even after that, the owner of those pair of rosy cheeks maintained himself in a flaunting of very nearly royal power for almost 17 years - and there was no "suicide", why should it be a suicide now?

Second, the most likely line of development is going to be something on the lines of the "Irish solution". Scholars on both sides of the border have already been apparently recruited on to the bandwagon. Think of the Good Friday Agreement and devolution of powers, joint authority and supervision, regional autonomy and semi-independent legislatures etc. The Irish model was foisted with the public face of charaters like Hubby Clinton. Democrats are back in power, and a Clinton is there in foreign affairs.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by SwamyG »

The issue of link language is a tool and would not be the strategy in itself. As a country, the elites a.k.a leaders and intellectuals occupying public space have not articulated the country's vision. The Constitution makers did a marvelous job, but there are certain missing elements - the most important one being the cut from our own Indic past. We should have managed to squeeze in 'dharama' as a doctrine.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

As I see it, I wonder how many Indians, no matter how philosophically or pseudo intellectually they may perceive Kashmir from their ivory towers, with or without TV opinion build up, the average Indian would hardly accept handing over Kashmir on a silver platter to Pakistan!

26/11 may not have held the imagination. Had it, then there would have been a serious problem. Mumbai is interested on merely money making – commercial capital – and so while they were indignant in their two seconds of fame on the TV, they forgot all about it – they preferred to enjoy their long weekend rather than hang around in Bombay for voting. That much for one to compare the noveau riche with India!

Take Gujarat and Godhra. If there were no pent up emotions, it worked all because of the BJP? I think we underestimate Indian emotions. What about Nandigram, when the CPM govt was so favourable to the Moslems?!

It is right that ‘interested elements’ promote their agenda to warms the seat of power!
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

SwamyG-ji,

That will need a long and hard struggle. Perhaps not possible without serious confrontations and a loss of prestige of the existing regime if they cannot stem foreign invasions or reversals.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Gujarat, Godhra, Nandigram were happening "inside" the sphere of media access for the general mass of Indians. People can go in into these areas after temperatures decrease, and interact or investigate for themselves to a great extent. Much more on-ground information can be brought out and boradcast. J&K has practically been insulated from the rest of the country. There is no real opportunity for independent penetration of information networks within the state from outside - Indians in general cannot access J&K in the same way they could the above mentioned places.

So in the absence of direct indpendent verifiability, cross community networks, what the regime wants to propagate about the state will be what the majority of Indians wil be basing on. They can heighten perception of "difference" and "separatism" to an extent where concessions become apparently unavoidable unless people want to bear the further costs of 26/11 like events or outright war. After all the Mumbaikars definitely officially showed that "monetary considerations" were infinitely more important than any so-called "nationalistic" considerations - by not even tokenly penalizing those in power.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

It would not be a correct premise to feel that J&K is insulated from the rest of the country. Tourism continues unabated, even if the numbers are less than the pre terrorism days. J&K tourism has always been concentrated at certain selected locations, be it pre or post terrorism. These locations continue to draw tourists from India and abroad. It was only yesterday, where a TV channel showed celebrations of Navrati in Srinagar and stated that it was incident free.

More on it (tourism under a terrorism blanket)
Tourist Traffic in J&K

On the issue of reportage from Kashmir, the Kashmiri media, mainstream Indian media and foreign media are active and the news is well covered, as well covered as in rest of India. Having personal experience of such activities, even though I was in the ‘interior’ and not in Srinagar, I daresay that the cover was inadequate! In fact, the reports coming out of Lalgarh or even Chattisgarh are scanty. The news from Kashmir is not State sponsored since one cannot 'manage' either the Indian media nor the foreign media in Kashmir. The Kashmiri media goes to town! Therefore, the news is independent and verifiable.

On the issue of the Nation fighting shy of another Mumbai terror attack and hence we should look for compromises, it is my firm belief that a 'peace at all costs' approach is not going to make life easier. It will make it worse. Chidambaram's no nonsense attitude has given some confidence to the people at large and many await the winter offensive against Maoist with great anticipation for the good.

I think the issue of terrorism as perceived in hinterland India grips some with a fear psychosis and clouds the J&K the reality. Chattisgarh and Bastar, to my mind, is more dangerous than J&K.

Separatism is a ploy to blackmail and get money from the Centre more than anything else. The Hurriyat is funded by the ISI, and some state, also by the RAW! The changing skyline of Srinagar, where the usual Kashmiri houses are given way to concrete palatial buildings, even though industries have closed down makes one wonder where the money is coming from.
ISI Funding
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

"Pent up emotions" argument is slightly problematic. If it is true as motivarting factor at Godhra/Gujarat, Nandigram, then some may also claim that it applies to J&K too. All the violence, terrorism, are then at least partly expressions of "pent up emotions" in the population of J&K.

Then again, even if "pent up emotions" are true, the very localized nature of the reactions in Godhra/Gujarat and Nandigram may not indicate similar "pent up emotion" for an issue that may not appear to have a direct consequence to the population concerned. Geographical distance and cultural distance both may disconnect a population group from whats happening somewhere else to a group with which no or hardly any cultural identification exists.

We have seen that blasts in Assam hardly register further west into the country.

Now who in India, far away from J&K, will feel the loss of J&K so keenly? The Kashmiri Pundits perhaps? Possible. But will they feel it so keenly that they will react politically against the forces that brought the loss? Are they sufficient in number to affect politics electorally? If they were, J&K history post 1980's would have been different. So the Kashmiri Pundits have little or no impact of consequence.

Will Muslims in India feel the loss of J&K to TSP? This is a very difficult question to answer. Do they have very important pilgrimage centres of religious significance that will be blocked to them? Any agreement that a GOI accepting such bartering of control can be safely expected to gurantee rights of Indian Muslims to visit such religious centres. Over time, most of the "Hindu" sites in the Valley have been destroyed by Jihadis. The remainder can be expected to be wiped off due to "natural ruin" from "lack of local worshippers" as in Bamian. So there will be little corresponding reasons to retain provisions for "Hindus".

So the only group with the power to do anything politically, that may resent the loss of territory would be those among the Hindus who still identify strongly with cultural icons in the state and feels this connection so keenly as to initiate significant political moves. Sikhs and Buddhists have a stake too, with the Buddhists having direct stake in the presence of their religious centres. But then again their numerical impact on the political process will be minimal.

The IA will definitely resent because all its sacrifices would have come in vain. But it cannot ultimately alter the Indian Parliamentary decision making process as it has no direct electoral presence.

But then the only constituency that could have mobilized will have to be based on the "Hindu" and its cultural identity. But then it will mean encouraging those very same forces which are decried as "right wing fascists". Aren't they supposed to be the greatest enemy of India, perhaps even more than TSP?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

brihaspati wrote:"Pent up emotions" argument is slightly problematic. If it is true as motivarting factor at Godhra/Gujarat, Nandigram, then some may also claim that it applies to J&K too. All the violence, terrorism, are then at least partly expressions of "pent up emotions" in the population of J&K.

Then again, even if "pent up emotions" are true, the very localized nature of the reactions in Godhra/Gujarat and Nandigram may not indicate similar "pent up emotion" for an issue that may not appear to have a direct consequence to the population concerned. Geographical distance and cultural distance both may disconnect a population group from whats happening somewhere else to a group with which no or hardly any cultural identification exists.

We have seen that blasts in Assam hardly register further west into the country.

Now who in India, far away from J&K, will feel the loss of J&K so keenly? The Kashmiri Pundits perhaps? Possible. But will they feel it so keenly that they will react politically against the forces that brought the loss? Are they sufficient in number to affect politics electorally? If they were, J&K history post 1980's would have been different. So the Kashmiri Pundits have little or no impact of consequence.

Will Muslims in India feel the loss of J&K to TSP? This is a very difficult question to answer. Do they have very important pilgrimage centres of religious significance that will be blocked to them? Any agreement that a GOI accepting such bartering of control can be safely expected to gurantee rights of Indian Muslims to visit such religious centres. Over time, most of the "Hindu" sites in the Valley have been destroyed by Jihadis. The remainder can be expected to be wiped off due to "natural ruin" from "lack of local worshippers" as in Bamian. So there will be little corresponding reasons to retain provisions for "Hindus".

So the only group with the power to do anything politically, that may resent the loss of territory would be those among the Hindus who still identify strongly with cultural icons in the state and feels this connection so keenly as to initiate significant political moves. Sikhs and Buddhists have a stake too, with the Buddhists having direct stake in the presence of their religious centres. But then again their numerical impact on the political process will be minimal.

The IA will definitely resent because all its sacrifices would have come in vain. But it cannot ultimately alter the Indian Parliamentary decision making process as it has no direct electoral presence.

But then the only constituency that could have mobilized will have to be based on the "Hindu" and its cultural identity. But then it will mean encouraging those very same forces which are decried as "right wing fascists". Aren't they supposed to be the greatest enemy of India, perhaps even more than TSP?


It is totally correct that unless it affects one, one is not concerned as to what is happening elsewhere.

Therefore, blasts in Assam or people blown up in Guwahati market, while it worries, yet is soon forgotten. And life goes on. How much is the effect felt in Kolkata over the issue of Nandigram or Lalgarh, even though they are a part of the State? Who is concerned about the situation in Jharkand? Most of us are merely armchair nationalists. High on ideals and low on care and action!

However, if India is invaded or we lose areas (as in Kargil) we are indignant and incensed. More so, these days, with the media blitz. Even JLN was not spared for that infamous statement of 1962 – my heart bleeds for the people of Assam!
My heart Bleeds for the people of Assam

So, callous that we maybe, yet when India’s dignity is at stake, we react. If we were to barter away J&K after so much of sacrifice, it is only people like Ashoke Mitra (who calls the IA as an occupational force) who will not care and might even rejoice! Or for that matter, Arundhuti Roy, the doyen of small thoughts and the one book wonder!

As I mentioned earlier in a post on what are the factors that make up national identity, Kashmir is the political input towards it and does evoke emotions when the chips are down, even if the Indian national identity is an amalgam of a kaleidoscope of issues loosely woven. However, culturally I learn from this forum that there is a commonality that dates back in time. Therefore, if that be true, then there has to be some empathy that should make the rest of India indignant, though I will concede that unless it affects others (as would bartering away of Kashmir would) none cares about the other.

To take the issue further to clarify, why are we so emotionally attached to Aksai Chin? Why do we reject what our venerable PM told us – that not a blade of grass grows. If not a blade of grass grows, why must we feel we have been shortchanged over a wasteland? Why then are we so incensed about the Chinese incursions in Ladakh and Arunachal, when they are so far from the core of India for us to bother about? We are incensed because it is an issue of our national pride and identity, no matter how abstract and loose that it maybe.

To feel that the Muslims will not and the Hindus will alone feel the loss of J&K if it is bartered away by the GOI with govt ‘directives’ or parliamentary sanctions is misplaced. There are many Moslems who find the chaos of Pakistan as a disgrace and have little love lost for them. They would equally share the anguish as any other Indian of any other religious hue. And those who don’t, would be worried for purely personal reason – worried about saving their bacon!

Kashmir is not about religion and religious sites. There are enough of religious sites lost by the creation of Pakistan for both the Hindus and the Sikhs. But what of it? People may lament occasionally, but the reality cannot be changed and so it gets accepted. Kashmir and its bartering is not about a political power hunt loss; it is about losing the Indian maryada or morjada (in Bengali).

IA will surely feel the loss if J&K is bartered, but then it does have the power of the notesheet that I have alluded to earlier. And it would take a man of steel to overrule it. We are yet to find such men of steel! One can thank God for small mercies! It will be the day when the Parliament will be able to muster the courage to sell J&K for an illusory peace at all costs. Chamberlain tried and failed!

Terms like Right wing fascists or class enemies or state coercion are all political gobbledygooks aimed solely to usurp power or ensure that it does not slip from one’s grasp. Religion and politics are but only instruments to keep the political grip over the gullible!
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by krishna_krishna »

A really awesome piece of work on future strategic challenges in the world ,also have implications on India's security challenge ( a must read ) :

http://www.act.nato.int/multiplefutures ... dition.pdf
SwamyG
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by SwamyG »

>>>>Thats actually very perceptive SwamyG, link language is a tool and not a strategy and the right thing should have been the way you propose.

Sanku ji: Actually all credit goes to gurujan on this forum and elsewhere. I am just repeating the gleaned gyaan. Please read, if you have not already, the paper "Hindu Dharma and Indian Funk" by K. Dad Prithipaul. Totally mind changing perspective. One will not think about the Indian Constitution the same way ever.

And, I stand with Stan saar on the concept of link language. You know that Sanku ji :-))))))
ramana
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by ramana »

SwamyG wrote:>>>>Thats actually very perceptive SwamyG, link language is a tool and not a strategy and the right thing should have been the way you propose.

Sanku ji: Actually all credit goes to gurujan on this forum and elsewhere. I am just repeating the gleaned gyaan. Please read, if you have not already, the paper "Hindu Dharma and Indian Funk" by K. Dad Prithipaul. Totally mind changing perspective. One will not think about the Indian Constitution the same way ever.

And, I stand with Stan saar on the concept of link language. You know that Sanku ji :-))))))

How and where does one get this paper?
SwamyG
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by SwamyG »

^^^
Check you email.

----------

I know it is available in this book: http://www.sundeepbooks.com/servlet/sug ... bno=005937. Just look at the chapters. It is my guess that chapters in red would definitely interest you. The bolded ones are those that I have read so far.
Contents :
Introduction

1. Religio? or Dharma - Meaning and Motivation: Primarily in Indian Context
- R.S. Bhatnagar


2. Philosophy, Religion, and Secularism: The Indian Context
- Srinivasa Rao


3. Dharma - Its Normative Base and Orthopraxeic Frame: Concept of Dharma and its Implication in Dharmasastras
- Godabarisha Mishra

4. Semantics of Dharma
- V. Kutumba Sastry


5. Dharma and Moksa: Conflict, Continuity, and Identity
- Mahesh M. Mehta

6. Mahatma Gandhi?s Notion of Dharma: An Explication
- Pushraj Jain

7. India, Europe, and Modernity
- Saranindranath Tagore


8. Imperial Indentities: The Construction of Britain and India in Children?s Literature
- Kathryn Castle


9. The Goals of Medicine - Setting New Priorities: A Hindu Prespective
- Cromwell Crawford

10. The Spiritual Self and Psychopathology: Theoretical Reflections and Clinical Obsevatins
- Alan Roland

11. recontextualizing Indian History: A Hermenutic of Samskrtikarana
- Makrand Pranjape


12. Secularism vs. Hindu Natinalism: Interrogating the Terms of the Debate
- Makrand Pranjape

13. Hindu Dharma and Indian Funk
- K. Dad Prithipaul


14. Vedic Mythology: An Archetypal Delineation of the Hindu World-View
- B. Rambilass

15. Modern Philosophical Fragmentation versus Vedanta and Plato
- Bart Gruzalski

16. The Dharmic Journey of Svami Vivekananda: From the Apostle of Hinduism Universalism to Hinduism as the Religion Etenal
- George M. Williams

17. Stri Dharma - Wife?s Duties: A Hindu Textual and Contextual Analysis among the Educated and Professional Women in Contemporary Indian Society and the Diaspora in UK and USA
- Annapurna Devi Pandey

18. Women in the East and Women in the West
- Ashima Khasnabish

The Contributors

Index
Rudradev
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by Rudradev »

SwamyG: Please email me the "Hindu Dharma and Indian Funk" by K. Dad Prithipaul paper as well.

rudradev DOTT brf ATT gmail DOTT com

Thanks very much, in advance.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by AnimeshP »

SwamyG
Can you please send me the paper as well. My ID is animeshp99 ATT gmail DOT com.

Thanks in advance ...
SwamyG
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by SwamyG »

I would have to scan the pages from the book to send you that :oops:
SwamyG
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by SwamyG »

The book I cited is available for less than $20 here : http://www.alibris.com/search/books/qwo ... sed/Dharma. To entice you further into buying the book, I throw in quotes from the paper by Dad K Prithipaul. Moderators if this infringes any copyrights, please remove the post.
Some of the below points, or variations of them, have been articulated by BRF members in different threads.

To me, the whole thing boils down to what we have tried to define several times here at BRF - ie. India. What is that we stand for (values)? What is that we want (strategy) ? How are we going to achieve it (tactics)? The above three questions are my way of breaking down the complex topic.

He talks about the French revolution, the American freedom ithyadi and what the people in those countries consider important or continue to nurse. For example freedom, equality, fraternity, reformed jurisprudence, scholastic curriculum, American dream etc.

*****************************
1. India is the only example of a major civilization country, which, in its capital does not have a single monument which recalls its past prior to the fifteenth century. India is the only major country where the political leadership sinks into a sort of paralysis, driven by a morbid funk, when the social need arises to refer to her classical philosophers, her architects, her artists, her exemplars, her monuments, her heritage.

2. Either by consent or by constraint, India accommodates herself to Western demands and pressures. For instance, all international flights entering or leaving India are regulated according to Western timetables. Scientific and business standards are prescribed by the Western institutions. Higher education has to meet criteria set by the Western universities {Swamyg: recall Bade's lament in the nuke dhaaga about 'international scientists' comment}

3. While the classical literature describes Narada as a learned scholar, endowed with a perfect knowledge of the Vedas and the Upanishad, of the Dharmasastras, of the six darsnas, of grammar, of astrology, of music an dsong, he is nevertheless personified as an ever grinning young man with a mute vina hanging from his neck and all his knowledge is condensed into the insane repetition of "Narayana, Narayana". He is supposed to provide comic relief, he is the convenient vidusaka...

4........{on India}....to give herself a legal system which bears faint organic continuity with her own past history.

5.Nehru always flaunted what he believed to be a progressive outlook by making fun of brahmanas and ridicuing their attachment to orthodoxy and tradition. He wanted India to have no affinity with her past.

6. For in addition to its juridical sophistication the Indian Constitution ought to have had a Preamble which approved the elimination of inequality among nations, promoted the equality among the citizens of a single nation, and above all, unambiguously declared the need to remove all obstacles to the free striving for, and the practice of, the perfectibility of the individual man.

6. In short, the Preamble ought to have, in new, virile terms, adapted to the socio-political realities obtaining at the end of the century, proclaimed whatever was optimistic and just in the former dharma pronouncements and in harmony with an understanding of a comprehensive history of the World. That would have been a unique gift to the Indian nation and to the World.

7. In classical India the raja (king) never placed himself above dharma. Any violation of dharma on his part would be immediately known by the common citizens (praja). Dharma encompassed the sensitivities of the ruler and of the ruled. It was a multilayered social structure that made allowance for the needs for hierarchies and differences, and provided direction to the life of individuals and of communities.

8. The Hindu ideology advocated by the BJP or the VHP does not exhaust the totality of the dharma. When the crowd becomes a nuisance, one must climb to the mountain top.

9. Throughout the course of her history India has always been revitalized by the accomplishments of thinkers, cultural pioneers moving northward from the south.

10. ..., India still continues to define herself in terms and ways approved by the outsiders.

11. Despite its genuine merits the 1950 Constitution appears like a puny achievement when viewed against, and evaluated by, a consideration of the characteristic achievements that gave to India her unique greatness:..........{he lists architectural marvels, texts, epics and institutions}

12. That dharma became associated with obscurantism and backwardness was unfortunately due to the fact that, by 1950, the voices of Culture had been already stilled.

13. The alienation of India from her native tradition is the product of an endogenous will and of the style of her administration.

14. Sometimes Indian elites have difficulty in understanding that their use of English language does not serve as a bridge between them and the West. On the contrary, it seems to extend the psychological distance between the Indian and the Westerner.

15. One wonders why India is the only country which has a ministry of Information and Broadcasting. In the French government, for example, two of the most prestigious ministries are those of Culture and Education.

16.WIth philosophers, proponents of culture, sociologists, histories, intellectuals exerting at best minimal influence on the debates at the Constituent Assembly, the 1950 Constitution represents the vision of men trained in British jurisprudence. It is this narrow intellectual mould that lies at the base of the collective neurosis in India:..

17. These moral principles are the precondition of the effectiveness and relevance of the Law. The Indian Constitution is no exception. But what are the moral principles which it takes for granted as its historical antecedent? Was the popularity of the Leaders in 1950 the only absolute norm which gave sanction to its approval?

18. Dharma is universal; the 1950 Constitution is a specific contingent reality. Dharma is eternal; the Constitution is material, born at a particular moment; it has a beginning, it is consequently imperfect and will in time perish. India made a choice between the eternal and the transient, between the absolute and relative.

19. Dharma is antithetical to kleptocracy.

20. THe national bank of Indonesia is called Kubera bank; Indonesia's national airlines bears the name Garuda. The folklore of Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia is largely coloured by Indian themes borrowed from the classical epics. The Theravada Buddhism of Sri Lanka, Burma and the other South-East Asian countries ought to act as a bridge of friendship and understanding to link with India. Why is it then that this alienation from India does not seem to preoccupy the framers of the foreign policy of the country? What is lacking in the language of Indian diplomacy.


***********

ramana and brihaspati: You have to buy this book.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

By the way, hasanyone started thinking of the missile tests by Iran, withdrawal of the proposed shield system from Poland by Obama, and their combined impact for strategic scenario on India? Someone posted a map of range coverage for some missiles from Iran. Pakistan's nuke establishment's connection to Iran has also been openly speculated on now.

Is it a ploy to stifle independent Indian planning and strategy for Iran? Or is there a potential risk of Iranian-TSPA collaboration for retaining nuke capability by Iran that can override any other tactical sympathy for India from existing Iranian regime?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by Javee »

This is Obama mama's plan.

Image
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by Abhi_G »

Brihaspati,

My panwallah told me something of this sort that the US may ask India for a military base strategically placed to continue the Af-Pak operation. Is this a feasible scenario?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Abhi_G wrote
Brihaspati,
My panwallah told me something of this sort that the US may ask India for a military base strategically placed to continue the Af-Pak operation. Is this a feasible scenario?
It is not at all unlikely. US has now many leverage points with the current GOI.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Can we please have some discussion on the Iran missile, and Obama withdrawal policy, etc, raised by me in my pre-previosu posts? There are experts here who are better qualified than me to contribute in this case - as we need to have a combination of the military and political perspective. RayC can you initiate, please, if you are inclined?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

brihaspati wrote:Can we please have some discussion on the Iran missile, and Obama withdrawal policy, etc, raised by me in my pre-previosu posts? There are experts here who are better qualified than me to contribute in this case - as we need to have a combination of the military and political perspective. RayC can you initiate, please, if you are inclined?
Thank you for your confidence, but I have just surfaced from the First War of Independence! And it is 0311 hours here.

The issue is real complex.

The inputs that require consideration are:

1. The increase in combat troops proposed in Afghanistan.
2. The play hot play cold with Pakistan. The US normally gets after those who kill US citizens, but they are pussyfooting over their citizens killed in the Mumbai Attack. Why?
3. Why this sudden military activity on the LAC by China.
4. Why the dropping of the Ballistic Missile Shield by Obama? Is it to ensure that Iran does not get nuclear assistance from Russia as a quid pro quo?
5. Is Israel going to bomb Iran's facilities? Indications are there. And is it why Obama is dropping the Missile Shield so that Russia does not interfere?
6. If India is having a Strategic partnership with the US, then why has the latest US India military 'drill' been aborted?

And there are many more issues that have to be considered before one could comment.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

RayC,
The Chinese dance on the East worries me as a possible diversionary tactic for things planned in the west. I am not entirely convinced with the fanfare raised in the east.

Putin is indebted to the Americans to a certain extent, so how far will he go anyway in obstructing Obama? Is it similar to the secret understandings that JFK and Khruschov came to over the Cuban missile positions? If Israel actually works out aginst Iran, then can the two of them control the spiralling of ME conflict?

Any action that draws Russian and American interests in that region leaves the AF-PAK front towards India open. But then this could prompt them to put more pressure on India for a J&K "solution" that gives them greater military control over the region.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by RayC »

brihaspati wrote:RayC,
The Chinese dance on the East worries me as a possible diversionary tactic for things planned in the west. I am not entirely convinced with the fanfare raised in the east.

Putin is indebted to the Americans to a certain extent, so how far will he go anyway in obstructing Obama? Is it similar to the secret understandings that JFK and Khruschov came to over the Cuban missile positions? If Israel actually works out aginst Iran, then can the two of them control the spiralling of ME conflict?

Any action that draws Russian and American interests in that region leaves the AF-PAK front towards India open. But then this could prompt them to put more pressure on India for a J&K "solution" that gives them greater military control over the region.
Brihaspati,

Interesting issues you raise.

This is my take.

Today’s news states that the Chinese are issuing different type of visa for Kashmiris of India, which are stapled.

They have carried out incursions at will and now this. They have celebrated the Communist regime’s 60th year with both military and political grandeur. They had recently held a huge military exercise in Tibet.

Are they purposely trying to provoke a conflict? If so, why so?

Or is it that they know that the Indian govt will pussyfoot and in diplomatic and political terms, they would have sent a message to the world that India is no match to China and is running scared.

While China officially states that the Kashmir issue should be solved bilaterally, this separate form of visa for Kashmiris is a clear but unobtrusive way of indicating that China does not consider Kashmir as a part of India! This helps her friend Pakistan, which is beleaguered and in the international doghouse apart from being a breadbasket case, but also helps China since it means that Aksai Chin is a bilateral issue with Kashmir and not India! Clever little chaps they are who have seen their parents’ wedding!!

You are right that for China, the West is more important than the East since they require strategic depth for the KKH and the oil pipeline to China from Gwadar that will follow the same alignment. It will also distance Xinjiang further from the Indian border. Yet, one has to also take note that the second highway to Tibet runs just North of the Indian border off Arunachal and I believe they are planning a second railway line along the same alignment and hence they would like to have strategic depth.

As far as the ME is concerned, the Sunni Arab nations will shed no tears if Iran is in dire straits. In fact, in Lebanon they did not raise a finger to assist the Hezbollah against the Israelis and instead it is believed that they played a major role to ensure that Harari’s son is elected. So, one wonders if ME will blow up if action is taken against Iran.

As far as India is concerned, both the US and Russia would like to keep it as a counter balance to China, since both are worried of China’s rapid rise and since China is unpredictable, they are not too sure as to how China shall jump! A counterbalance helps in such situations!
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by KLNMurthy »

RayC wrote:
Interesting issues you raise.

This is my take.

Today’s news states that the Chinese are issuing different type of visa for Kashmiris of India, which are stapled.

They have carried out incursions at will and now this. They have celebrated the Communist regime’s 60th year with both military and political grandeur. They had recently held a huge military exercise in Tibet.

Are they purposely trying to provoke a conflict? If so, why so?
Indian response to Chinese provocation has been for the govt. to state: "our position is clear, Tibet is an integral part of China." In other words, China is making India engage in a reflex genuflection ritual, to reinforce India's acceptance of Chinese dominance. This kind of ritual humiliation is needed from time to time to keep the lower orders in their place. Typically, the leaders of these lower orders are there to "manage" the rank and file of their own so that they don't get too out of hand and rebel against the master race. Thus, the scolding by the leader community to the media about playing up the Chinese threat.

On the matter of the stapled visas, isn't it a simple matter to not allow the holders of such visas to board the plane in any Indian airport? Visas for the destination country are always checked at the emigration desk before boarding the plane.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

The stapling of visas could be used to make them more easily transferable. But more than that, it could be a way of trying to monitor them while in China starting right from the airport. Depending on information coded into the visa, the airport security can trigger appropriate handlers at the Chinese end. We don't know how many of these Kashmiris will be targeted for "recruitment".
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by Rudradev »

If you assume a Core Delhi leadership under the disproportionate influence of Washington, which is having to deal with increasing pressure brought against it by the middle-ranking (but much more extensive) GOI administrative apparatus... the Chinese sabre-rattling makes sense.

Consider:

1) Sharm-el-Shaikh was quickly followed by a backlash in GOI circles. Manmohan Singh realized that there were sharp political limits to which he could extend his willingness to put American interests first in the formulation of Indian national policy. There were loud, public contradictions/reinterpretations of MMS' statement by senior GOI ministers almost immediately. Even Sonia Madam had to speak out against S-e-S to establish her bahu bona-fides.

Such efforts suggest urgent, anxious measures to stem the serious possibility of revolt by the political classes, and to assuage grave resentment amongst the bureaucracy. As for the armed forces, I would leave it to Ray C sir to comment, but from what I hear they were extremely unhappy at the thought of (a) Siachen compromises being offered to Pakistan at America's behest (b) being asked by the core Delhi leadership to participate in internal security details against the Maoists, thus implicitly clipping their stature as far as international policy inputs are concerned (c) very slow or nonexistent procurement of funds and equipment necessary to fight wars, etc.

2) The whole Santhanam episode appears, at first light, to be an extremely ill-conceived, ill-timed and ill-executed protest. Even if it IS true that India's nuclear deterrent needs a great deal of further testing for it to inspire confidence, one would think that breaching the subject publicly as Santhanam did (thereby reducing whatever credibility our deterrence presently has, in the eyes of the world) was an extremely self-defeating maneouvre.

Unless Santhanam and the nuclear "hawks" did it this way only because they believed that the Core Delhi Leadership was so compromised, that proceeding to advance their case along official channels or through any less public means would have been a completely futile exercise. That's the only scenario in which I can see a scientist who dedicated his entire career to national security, taking the risky choice to go public rather than trust the core Delhi policymakers to do the right thing.

3) The UPA has a stronger mandate than in 2004-09, and is not itself hamstrung or besieged as it was by dependence on outside support as during the previous administration (remember the scene in the Lok Sabha with MPs brandishing suitcases of money during the no-confidence motion last year).

What this means is that the second-rung INC leadership is more confident and sure of itself. Not expecting the rug to be pulled from under its feet at any time, the second-rung is less amenable to taking orders chup-chaap from the Core Delhi Leadership. It may well be more likely to voice its own opinions, and ask embarrassing questions based on its own perceptions of national interest.

4) All this signifies that, while the Core Delhi Leadership (MMS Coterie) may still be very much under Washington's command, lower and middle rungs of the new UPA administration (as well as the legislature, bureaucracy, scientific establishment and military) are not as unquestioningly influenced by the MMS Coterie, as between 2004-2009.

i.e, MMS cannot fool all of the people all the time. :mrgreen:

5) In response to this new scenario, the Obama administration may be taking measures to help the Emperor resist any pressure from his mantris, satraps, scientists and generals to adopt alternative policy measures that serve India's interests.

6) Most importantly: the US cannot guarantee that Pakistan won't repeat another Nov. 26 indefinitely. They are pressing and pressing the MMS regime to give concession after concession to Pakistan on Kashmir (hence Sharm-el-Shaikh) in the hope that India can buy an extension to the continuing lull in ISI terrorism since Nov. 26 last year.

This suggests that, on the Islamabad side, the US is stopping terrorism by convincing the Pakis that Indian concessions on Kashmir are on the way... just hold off on a terrorist strike for a little bit longer and the MMS Coterie will give them what they want.

But as the aftermath of S-e-S shows, things don't seem to be working out that way. The Pakis will have lost faith in the ability of the US to extract Kashmir concessions from the MMS Coterie, given the widespread backlash against S-e-S in GOI circles.

As a result, the Pakis may be preparing the next attack even now.

If another Nov. 26 happens, and the MMS Coterie tries to respond with another dossier-retaliation per Washington's instructions, the revolt within his party, within the bureaucracy and other centers of power may completely unseat the Coterie, thwarting all of Washington's plans. The second-rung leadership might insist on military action against Pakistan to stem the public outrage. That would put paid to America's Af-Pak "strategy".

Q: So what could Washington do, to minimize the likelihood of this possibility?

A: Impose and increase real pressure on India from other directions, so that even if another Paki-sponsored terrorist attack takes place in India, the centers of power who may insist on military retaliation will find themselves constrained. Restricted, perhaps, by the looming threat of a two-front war.


Is it possible that the Americans have co-opted the Chinese, encouraging them to adopt a belligerent and provocative stance against India, so as to spare their common Paki MuNNA from facing a military response to their next terrorist adventure?

It does seem to fit in with some of the observations. As Brihaspati-ji says, the Chinese sabre-rattling in the East may be a diversion. Perhaps it is intended to remind us that we have a very long border to defend in the event of a two-front war, and therefore should be wary of overcommitting forces to the Pak border for a retaliation against terrorism.

Note also that within India itself, the Chinese posturing has been magnified, sensationalized and harped on ad nauseam by the Indian media... an established tool of the MMS Coterie. Creating a "Chinese are coming!" fear psychosis in the public, may be calculated to restrain public calls for a retaliation against the next Pakistani terrorist attack, again by imposing the spectre of a two-front war on the public consciousness.

It's like 1971 all over again... had there been Morarji Desai in charge.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by Sanku »

Rudradev wrote:Note also that within India itself, the Chinese posturing has been magnified, sensationalized and harped on ad nauseam by the Indian media... an established tool of the MMS Coterie. Creating a "Chinese are coming!" fear psychosis in the public, may be calculated to restrain public calls for a retaliation against the next Pakistani terrorist attack, again by imposing the spectre of a two-front war on the public consciousness..
True but but India is the country where the law of unintended consequences always works, what is intended never happens and what happens is rarely intended.

Things do work out for us one way or the other though -- Bhgawan Malik hai.

A little less philosophically -- Bji aslo said that the Anglo-Saxon in their haste to utilize perhaps the best and the last opportunity of having a "old old school" anglophile govt which possibly most open to their inputs is overreaching.

This gives us hope -- waking up of India is important, but once it wakes up even if done inadvertently by the Chinese ghost. It may pursue a course of action completely different from that expected.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

I had a nagging suspicion that the GOI raised the alarm not only because the situation is indeed alarming, but also because they needed to divert the attention of the public, that reduced the threat perception form TSP. This meant a possible dallying with the idea of broaching the issue of concessions to TSP.

The thing is, each side has their plans to take advantage of a situation. Problem is, as just pointed out, the combined effect of all those actions could go well out of the grasp of all three on-spot govs - GOTSP, GOI, and GOPRC.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

There is a funny tug-o-war now going on involving USA, KSA, Iran, and Russia, with France thrown in. Russia could be posndering sale of more advanced weapons system of a later deisgn to KSA, apparently sponsored by USA, while it had been in negotiations with Iran to sell an earlier version. RT, and english language Russian news channel reported this today surprisingly. It could be indirect prompting by Putin to up the ante.

However it gets even more interesting to note that the Russians are going ahead in negotiations with the French to buy at least two (and eventually even more) copter and hover carriers. There are obvious questions about whether the NATo will allow/be allowed to transfer the license of the navigational tech in the vessels to Russia. But more interestingly, the protest appears to be also coming from Russia's own scientists, analysts anad perhaps they reflect the Russian military concerns at the same time. The Americans are siad to be unhappy about this. And some of the analysts are unhappy because they see no immediate strategic plans in Ruusia's military doctrine that needs such capabilities.

They actually mentioned some interesting scenarios where such vessels could be necessary - like interventions in SL, and some other IOR locations. Officially they wondered since Russia does not need to think of these locations - why the need to acquire such tech!

At the same time Russia was reported to have come closer to Iran, over the recent years. They have an understanding with Iran to enrich low-grade Uranium on behalf of Iran and also to setup a nuclear power plant for which they will supply fuel.

But the speculation was touched upon that the KSA deal could be happening to cut Iran down a size, after Obama provided a sop to Putin to justify such moves by withdrawing missile-shield cover from proposed Polish sites.

All this increases the possible angle we have been discussing about how far Putin will really go in opposing US designs for AFPAK.

Will India be able to resist a proposal keenly overseen by USA, Russia, PRC and favouring concessions to TSP?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

In connection with Iran and Israel and its strategic impact on India, I find that there appears to be a severe hesitation and lack of clarity in our thinking. Most of the time, we appear to sympathize with the Palestinians.

It is not just real-politic of small advantages and political sparring why India should side up with Israel. It is against a common enemy and threat to existence. Palestinian cause is not just Palestinian cause - it is the cause of Islam trying to use them for consolidating their hold on Eastern Mediterranean. Removal of Israel from the scene frees up the Islamic hordes egged on by resources and ideological pep-talk from the Saudi based Wahabis and their competitor Shia mobilizers based from Iran - now all engaged in erasing Israel. Just think of what happened to the Jihadis out of work after the Soviets withdrew from AFG - they moved on to J&K. Some returned to BD and have been using the porous border to carry out attacks both in BD as well as in India.

Iran is very much part of OIC and its role on J&K has remained ambiguous. What will make us understand the real nature of Islamic theologians wherever and whenever they are in power - another Partition riot or the promised Ghazwa-e-Hind?

The future of India is intricatley linked to the confrontations that will shape up between USA, Israel and India on one side and Russia, Iran and China on the other side. Yes there will be overlaps of bilateral interests and common causes between individual members across the two sides. But overall their interests will not converge. The weak and manipulable crossover in this is the Russia India connection. But apart from this the broad axis of confrontation remains as described.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Rudradev wrote
Q: So what could Washington do, to minimize the likelihood of this possibility?
A: Impose and increase real pressure on India from other directions, so that even if another Paki-sponsored terrorist attack takes place in India, the centers of power who may insist on military retaliation will find themselves constrained. Restricted, perhaps, by the looming threat of a two-front war.
But as pointed out by some, things can be planned but combined they take an unexpected form. One of the outcomes is that internal forces can be tempted to take advantage of the external scenario. Beginning with the "Naxalites" perhaps. Do we see a pattern of activation of "trouble"? First Jihadis in the west, then TSPA in the North, then PRC in the NE, then Naxals in centre/south. Providing cyclical excuses for not doing things.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Back to square one : two important leaks.

First, division of opinion and "majority" probably voicing opposition or Obama seeking justification for "withdrawal". He met the senators for a closed-door consultation on sending troops to AFG.

Second, the "leak" that around 60 or more Talebs have been assembled to be pushed into the Valley as reported "officially" by NDTV. The reports did not forget to mention the possibility that ISI has made it conditional on the Talebs to move to the Valley if they want to survive.

This could be a confirmation (although very early stages) as what I had proposed to be the strategy of the IS/TSPA in its drive north to provide resources and excuses to the Talebs to "retreat" into the Valley and southern AFG then to tackle AFG elections.

The time schedule that I was worried about could be closing upon us.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by Atri »

brihaspati wrote:Back to square one : two important leaks.

First, division of opinion and "majority" probably voicing opposition or Obama seeking justification for "withdrawal". He met the senators for a closed-door consultation on sending troops to AFG.

Second, the "leak" that around 60 or more Talebs have been assembled to be pushed into the Valley as reported "officially" by NDTV. The reports did not forget to mention the possibility that ISI has made it conditional on the Talebs to move to the Valley if they want to survive.

This could be a confirmation (although very early stages) as what I had proposed to be the strategy of the IS/TSPA in its drive north to provide resources and excuses to the Talebs to "retreat" into the Valley and southern AFG then to tackle AFG elections.

The time schedule that I was worried about could be closing upon us.
{emphasis mine}

The gaze might be turning towards Bhaarat now.

Blast near Indian embassy in Kabul, 12 dead

IN case of US retreat in next 8 years, Obama admin expects that perhaps China fill in the void and not India. Do they have Chinese embassy in Afghanistan? Was there any problem after Xinjiang Riots in Kabul at Chinese Embassy?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

Here are the opening shots of the game.
Al-Qaida calls for holy war against China
In a video message, a senior Al-Qaida leader has urged Muslims to launch a holy war against Chinese "invaders" in response to the "massacre" of Uighurs in western China.

"The atheist criminals have long used the most despicable, cruel and brutal means against Muslims in Turkistan," said Abu Yayha al-Libi, who is sometimes identified as the commander in Afghanistan of the international terrorist network Al-Qaida.
The Qaida should be treated at best as a shadow now - a cover possibly for a host of secret services for a number of nations. The fact that a Qaida mouthpiece has now been activated to "warn" China, apparently, on the surface looks very straightforward. So China stands cleared of supporting and maintaining Jihadi terror against India through AFPAK. They are just like TSP, "victims onlee".

Basically the only gameplan that suits these outbursts, including the one against Indian embassy at Kapisha, is the planned withdrawal of forces by the US from AFG.

My contention had always been, that Obama will try to first stabilize the situation in AFG. But his main concern will be to retreat and withdraw US forces and minimize commitments. But to do all this without appearing to lose face. He always has to live under the shadow of his predecessor - especially in terms of appearing to be the aggressive dominant foreign policy bull. He cannot do anything that will paint him as having been the conceder.

To do this without losing face he has to show that what he leaves behind is a better solution for the US than what Bush was headed for and leaving behind. The best superficial way is to leave a weak and US-dependent government in AFG, which however can only be realized in practice if the "neighbours" can be forced to join hands in the maintenance of such a government.

TSPA has definitely thrown tantrums that India cannot be included in such a setup. The GOI on the other hand is at political risk if it allows TSP to mount one of its regular atrocities on Indian soil. For the US, this is the best possible GOI to achieve some degree of acceptance for US plans. This is a GOI with a clear official electoral mandate, and such a performance need not be repeated. GOI however is in a political dilemma and is dragging its feet. So US can very well think of applying appropriate pressure on GOI, or provide it with excuses to be put before the public.

The barebones strategy is to
(a) reinvent the "good/moderate Taleban", as provided helpfully by the TSPA and ISI.
(b) enforce a nation gov of consensus with participation by the "moderate Taleb" in the AFG. To ensure stability, draw in the "parties" that indirectly maintain and sponsor the conflict - TSP and PRC.
(c) TSPA pressurizes the civilian gov/or directly uses its contacts in US to make support for this plan conditional on "solving the Kashmir" issue according to TSPA demands. PRC gives its tacit approval of TSP demands.
(d) PRC however wants and needs greater direct control over the occupied Northern Areas to create a virtual buffer obstructing Islamic access for TSP to the Uyghurs. This also requires direct or indirect finger in "J&K".
(e) The GOI's political hesitation in accepting any "solution" for "J&K" therefore needs to be tackled. The main concern is political repercussion and loss of electoral power. This can be problematic for two reasons. First a cooperative and "understanding" GOI that increasingly talks of "nuanced response" to the most abominable of atrocities, is the best possible government for US or TSP objectives for "J&K". Its removal from power is not good. The second problem is that a more "jingoistic" gov could be voted to power - which gets everything out of control of US hands.
(f) Thus there are two things to ensure - that this GOI continues in power, while at the same time it allows a "Kashmir solution" to proceed. This can be done if sufficient reasons can be provided in a very public manner that shows the "futility of resistance" and the potential of further trauma and loss. If the need for concessions can be established in the public domain, that safeguards both dangers.
(g) I will expect a rehyping of Indian society, culture and tradition to be universally tolerant of everything. Magnanimous in the tolerance of all differences, both known and unknown. Cleverly interspersed with this will be reports of Jihadi atrocities which will increase in frequency. The Maoist violence will increase, providing further needs to deal with the "grave" internal threat and therefore all the more need to patch up on the external threats.
(h) the sign that all the major constituents of this plan think they can proceed safely will come with a dramatic decrease in the number of atrocities, success over Naxalites, and international recognition for India with sops like a serious consideration of Indias entry into UNSC, more reports of how Chinese youth are falling in love with Hindi and Indian dance, etc.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by ramana »

And the charge will be led from this very forum.
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by SwamyG »

Brihaspati ji: So when will India realize the game and raise?
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Post by brihaspati »

SwamyG-ji,
Given current power distribution, raising not possible until actual loss of territory is seen and its further effects felt. The process, if it happens will be slow and subtle. Just loss of area will not be strong enough. TSP and BD were also lost - it did not trigger devastating retaliation. But the crucial loss is loss of regions to which those in power, personally identify with. Problem, is JLN's personal attachment to J&K need not be felt with the same intensity in his descendants. No fault of them, but natural process in all generations who get detached over time from their imagined/real uhrheimat.

Those who would naturally feel identified with the state by birth are practically speaking, dispersed and a small force electorally.

This means the reaction can only come from ideological commitments to the state. The most natural place for that to start with is of course cultural and faith based. This is likely to be a controversial topic.
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