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archan · Post by **archan** » 05 Nov 2009 18:30

ajay pratap wrote:Respected Moderaters(both He/She),
since it seems tis is Name changing season, if it is not troublesome
me would like to change me name to something else(human sounding of course).
i post in me real name, would like something like AP(hope Ass-o-ciate press won't mind)
or APS or aps or "eye pradap".
regards.

would A_Pratap work?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Nov 2009 18:38

DON'T keep your last name as a user name. Keep your pet name or your first name.
It helps to keep your anonymity, more so if you are committing soosai in the BENIS / Jiye Bakistan dhaga.
Theej days with Eye Ass Eye agents roaming about, if you are important enough, there is a risk you may be traced and IED Mubaraked

This is not a joke, it is indeed worth considering.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 05 Nov 2009 18:52

browse cricinfo and forget about it.

Ha! Off with his IP for that!
If you have browsed Cricinfo recently, you would be here too, like I am - 2 try to forget about it.

BTW, the Post-count Criterion 4 Tolerance of Disagreement is the standard tantrum used by teenagers as in:

You don't LISTEN because you only LISTEN to OLD people!!

So Dileep's chankian cunning strategy is to post that and see who will agree with that.

Just 4 the enlightenment of these postors who ask why my user ID is what it is, and and associate it with some "privilege":

I used to use my real name. But then one day 1,700,000,000 posts ago, there was an objection to user handles being long, "because that takes up too much room on the left margin". I was asked to change from my real naam because it wasn't fashionably down to "modern" illiterate monosyllable level (sorry to use such long words, hope ur screen doesn't get smudged too badly from having the ungli run along it). Someone whom I shall not name arbitrarily changed it to "kuttan" (see above re: other ass-o-ciations of that). I asked for it to be changed to "enqyoob" in protest against that. Can you believe - such racist illiteracy on a DESI forum? Of course it was b4 the days when the Moderators were so fair, excellent, and wasted pages trying to explain reasoning as they are now. In those days,

Openly Question Admin== Find UserID NotWorking In Seconds.
None of this ultra-liberal stuff. In fact, the most amazing metamorphosis I see here is Super-Adminullah J-Gun. Ask him how many of my 1,000,000,000s of posts, and entire threads, he has deleted.

Qualifies under the UN Convention on Genocide. The Cricket Predictor Corrector Forum, the Romance Advice/Agony Forum... just to mention two enterprises that grew so fast that the server could not handle the hit rate. Cruel!

But did I commit e-soosai, I ask you?

So protests had to be handled with the suave subtlety 4 which I am so famous.

One survives by doing a quick check (now that v r trying to guess Secrets of Survival and failing miserably):

1. "Would I consider that fair enough if I did that to someone else?" (trick here is 2 b honest)
If that doesn't work, try
2. "If I had the chance and thought I could get away with it, would I do that 2 someone else?"
If that doesn't work as well, try:
3. "If I continue throwing a tantrum, is there a high chance that these folks will ban me?"

When the Mod names were J-Gun, "The Scalpel" (no name allowed), "Calvin" and "Rakesh", the wise answer to No. 3 was invariably

"Yup! In a flash! Have u wondered why they haven't done it already?"

That usually works for me, so I adopt the "stiff upper lip", stop

and continue as if nothing has happened. After all, Alternative 4, which is "I will pout off!" is not very different in practicality from the involuntary version.

If numerics had been allowed my user ID would have been something else but it would have made it sound like one of those robots on StarWars. Like Ramarajurasheed Elongovanputreeshwari Richard might have been R7a6e5D2..

In summary, it is the Rahul/Archan/RayC/ramana form of Kind and Gentle, Long-Explanation, Infinite Patience form of "Moderation" that is the outlier data point in BRF Moderation history. The reason why BRF is far cleaner and conducts much more intelligent and open discussion than any other open forum, is that the Mods in the past simply did not put up with nonsense a lot. Of course the loud

eventually got to most good moderators, I simply cannot comprehend the saintly levels of patience of the above-named. I ain't got it, and don't plan to grow it. It don't make sense. Maybe they will also learn as they "mature", why Mahatma Gandhi lost all his hair at a young age, unlike Attila the Hun who lived and died stress-free.

Hope this helps. I doubt it. Those who really need the advice are usually too far gone to reach. Which is why the InstaBan button is such a great invention. Follows a great tradition. Cheers.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Nov 2009 19:18

ajay pratap wrote:Respected Moderaters(both He/She),
since it seems tis is Name changing season, if it is not troublesome
me would like to change me name to something else(human sounding of course).
i post in me real name, would like something like AP(hope Ass-o-ciate press won't mind)
or APS or aps or "eye pradap".
regards.

a piece of advice to both you and others who are thinking of a username change.

request off the board through the emails, else it defeats the purpose of changing to a pet name.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Nov 2009 19:21

n^3 saar, for all that I don't think I've mucho patience outside of the feedback dhaga, at least in my favoured haunt, mil fora.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Nov 2009 20:37

Err Saar,
What is the meaning of the word 'Ponda'
I can't translate over the internet, and the suspense is killing.

On the net I got this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ponda_Baba

niran · Post by **niran** » 06 Nov 2009 06:00

Reading Dr.N^3-al-Miffled post, i release what calamitous peril
it is just to request a name change. BTW since me is nobody, i
withdraw my request. Thanks for the interest and trouble AdMs
took.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Nov 2009 06:06

There is at least one common pronunciation in India that uses "ponda". In Orissa, a "ponda" is regionalized version of "Pundit" - they will be thick around the active temples. It is also a surname for some among them who are no longer temple-"lived". But "ponda"-baba will be less common usage there - even if not entirely unknown. More common will be "ponda thakur".

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Nov 2009 06:12

A.P.: It's actually no trouble at all - since I am not the one hu does it. I'd be happy to volunteer RahulM for it, no problem. But one should be careful in wishing for a new naam. As someone said, it is wise to not have a naam that can b traced to 1self. I used to believe that it was very maccho to use one's own real naam. But the times have changed 4 the worse. If some ppl know that I am really Govindaraju Abdullah Samaraweerasinghe Jonathan Singh Nanayakare Qureshi Ayoob Faisalabadi, they could cause trouble...

niran · Post by **niran** » 06 Nov 2009 06:28

Saar! me is really nobody, BTW here at Big Mango, the best achievement by
Packese diaspora apart from fake currency, passport and pirated cd DVDs
is "National" brand Mango pickle

inshalla i shall be safe with whatever name.

PS this is real post count increaser AoA

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Nov 2009 06:33

With ur stellar record in the ***** dhaga? No, I hope u change ur ID to something far away from your naam. Seriously.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Nov 2009 06:41

Janab M Saab, Please change my name to {deleted.
Pls email jirga-e-BeeArrEff. Thx}

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Nov 2009 23:27

Posted here because this may have lasting value: Draw ur own lessons/conclusions, but it MAY suggest some reasons for admins cracking down on ppl who post things that might lead to trouble:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/tex ... index.html

Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. {that explains a lot..} , said "I got the impression that he was a committed soldier." He said Hasan attended prayers regularly at the mosque in Silver Spring, Md., and was a lifelong Muslim. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, and he wanted out of the Army.

"Some people can take it and some people cannot," she said. "He had listened to all of that and he wanted out of the military."

At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

Investigators had not determined for certain whether Hasan was the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.

Circa 2000 there was a guy who used to be very angry. Not on BRF (or if he was I didn't know his name). Pretty quickly, gentle ppl like me quit trying to respond to him. Claimed to be ex-IA or BSF, actually. One day he went "postal", got into a camo outfit, took a gun and went to a university campus, and killed one person, wounded others before the SWAT teams got him. Spending the rest of his foreseeable life in prison.

Also u may see that some ppl are paid to browse internet postings day in, day out.

So we don't really have any choice - have to stop ppl whom we see and judge to be heading in/ inciting dangerous directions. Action has to be taken swiftly, and long before others see anything wrong, based on a swift reading of the postor's intentions/ mindset.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 06 Nov 2009 23:33

OK now this is getting serious.
All ***** Jirga who are engaging in naam changing need inform the rest of the jirga via hawai mail so that unnecessary confusions don't arise. As it is there is high suspicion of Raa agints there.

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 09 Nov 2009 19:55

Mods,

I'd like to recommend a separate thread for jingos who have, what seems to me as a "passion" for looking up and posting various technical specs which are a lot of times completely unrelated to the ongoing discussion.

I'm sure others share my view too. I would not like to point at any particular person(s) who do this, but I'm sure that mods are aware of it.

At the same time I would like to let everyone know that I do appreciate them going through the hard work of looking up those specs, its just that, at some point when I'm reading through the threads, they become annoying and they are sometimes also responsible for some very interesting discussions to come to a halt.

Thank You.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Nov 2009 22:30

enqyoob wrote: Circa 2000 there was a guy who used to be very angry. Not on BRF (or if he was I didn't know his name). Pretty quickly, gentle ppl like me quit trying to respond to him. Claimed to be ex-IA or BSF, actually. One day he went "postal", got into a camo outfit, took a gun and went to a university campus, and killed one person, wounded others before the SWAT teams got him. Spending the rest of his foreseeable life in prison.

Also u may see that some ppl are paid to browse internet postings day in, day out. So we don't really have any choice - have to stop ppl whom we see and judge to be heading in/ inciting dangerous directions. Action has to be taken swiftly, and long before others see anything wrong, based on a swift reading of the postor's intentions/ mindset.

Saarji, was this guy {Martian} perchance? Guy in {AK47U} with a last name starting with *? If we're thinking of the same person, the guy wore a wig as well, glued on to his WW-II helmet, when he went on his rampage, and the incident happened in ****.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 11 Nov 2009 03:03

Armen: **No comment** but I am editing parts of ur post.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 11 Nov 2009 03:17

sourab_c wrote:Mods,

I'd like to recommend a separate thread for jingos who have, what seems to me as a "passion" for looking up and posting various technical specs which are a lot of times completely unrelated to the ongoing discussion.

I'm sure others share my view too. I would not like to point at any particular person(s) who do this, but I'm sure that mods are aware of it.

At the same time I would like to let everyone know that I do appreciate them going through the hard work of looking up those specs, its just that, at some point when I'm reading through the threads, they become annoying and they are sometimes also responsible for some very interesting discussions to come to a halt.

Thank You.

For the record (again), I (among numerous others) strongly support this idea!
I completely agree! I have previously pointed out ppl who do this (Baldev) and here is another brilliant example of the same.

Case in point: MRCA thread

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 90#p770090

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Nov 2009 06:28

not a bad idea. someone please start a thread "technical info links" and ask people to restrict posting to things related to India. also, spare the other threads for that kind of posts.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 11 Nov 2009 06:39

Enforcement is the key - so start reporting the posts

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 11 Nov 2009 06:47

Rahul M wrote:not a bad idea. someone please start a thread "technical info links" and ask people to restrict posting to things related to India. also, spare the other threads for that kind of posts.

I have created a thread as per your guidelines sir, please feel free to edit anything you find unsuitable with the description or my explanation of your guidelines.
Thank you for this, a number of us have been requesting this or the longest time ever. I appreciate the hard work of the BRAdmins.

Jagan wrote:Enforcement is the key - so start reporting the posts

You know sir, I along with other who have been requesting such a thread and have been irritated by the 'noise' or SPAM that some have called it will ensure enforcement and reporting of violating posts from now on in.

Thank you!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Nov 2009 00:10

I am starting this thread with the hope that we can propose, argue, evaluate and re-propose goals, and objectives as well as methods to achieve them - as far as "national interests" are concerned - within foreseeable and what to me seems visionable timeframe.

In most threads so far, we have tried to focus on specific aspects like economy, or say TSP, or the Maoist insurgency. But I think all these issues become related to each other after some stage. Each such specific line of inquiry throws up both conceptual as well as methodlogical challenges that see unsurmountable because of factors external to the area being investigated.

For example the TSP problem comes up with political indecision from GOI side, the supposed vulnerabilities of India because of supposed weakness in the nuclear programme, international backing behind TSP, all of which in turn are traced to "economic" weakness and not being economically strong enough like USA and PRC. Then obviously the question turns up as to why India is not economically strong enough, and a whole spectrum of reasons comes ranging from apparently motivationless specific targeting of Indian economic development by external powers like PRC or even "western economies" and MNC's. (Motivationless, because we cannot ascribe racial or religious motives - for that usually shows Abrahamics or Communism in bad light). Then again the defence expenditure that a colonially "sucked" economy of India has to maintain for security - especially defend against TSP and collateral expenses of winning the hearts and minds of people of Kashmir valley. Finally even the dsiruptions in economy and development from terror driven by Jihad or Maoism is afterall somehow either due to "lack of development" in the subcontinent or due to ideological repression of minorities or incitement from outside by powers like TSP or PRC. With that we come back full circle to the problem of TSP not being solvable because of TSP itself.

There are many such examples of circular logic and exploration, that can be put up. But the aim should be to break out of the circle and not be stuck in the loop.

I have kept the outline as flexible as I think feasible. So posters can draw up on a wide line of enquiry involving socio-economic, political and military issues to arrive at a tentative national agenda.

I am aware that if the discussion appears to become critical of incumbent regime in power in GOI, or the political spectrum that supports such a regime, or highlight their opposing ideologies/cultures/political groupings not in unfavourable light, then some can try to label the discussion as "Hindutva through backdoor". By typical logical extension, this usually leads to equation with "fascism" and sought to be "immediately liquidated" as a contaminant on the forum. I humbly insist on posters to be aware of this possibility and not allow disruption of the thread. This can be easily done by simply not responding to any abusive name-calling given to personages/ideologies/cultures otherwise respected by the posters.

Let us try to analyze in a comprehensive fashion, isolating and combining all the factors that turn up, and argue about the time frame in which a proposed outcome is feasible.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Nov 2009 00:17

A first question of interest to me, and perhaps others will find it interesting too, is, should India have an expansive or conservative/defensive policy with respect to territory, political influence and military dominance beyond its current recognized political boundary? Depending on the answer, a whole range of questions arise specific to the answer chosen.

In fact a critical issue could be whether defensive/conservative policy can at all be maintained without expansion? Or can expansion lead to ultimately falling back on conservative policy?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Nov 2009 01:07

National agenda can be a huge issue , Should it be divided into Social-Political, Economic and National Security sections?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Nov 2009 01:11

Did not want to divide. That was the main motivation to look at the issues as a connected whole while at the same time being aware of the specific/specialized analysis that is available as subtopics. If we divide, that sense of connection is lost. We can see how the discussion grows. If it really becomes unmanageable - we can then think of dividing?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Nov 2009 03:32

Can able leadership be provided

http://www.rediff.com/news/agenda.htm

National Agenda For Governance

In the recently concluded elections to the 12th Lok Sabha, the BJP and its alliance partners went to the people as a team and sought their support for forming a new government. The electorate has given its verdict. The BJP and alliance partners have unitedly won. We have the mandate to govern. This we will do mindful of the high responsibility and honour that has been conferred upon us.

On this occasion we recollect the core of the appeal for support that we had made; the assurance of a `stable government and an able leadership'. As a reaffirmation of that, and in joint and unanimous commitment to this high national endeavour, together the BJP and alliance partners now present to the country a `National Agenda for Governance'.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Nov 2009 03:53

Brihaspati: Ah vision-mission statement! A Nation or a country ultimately still is for the people. So what does India promise its citizens? So for our discussion, are we going to consider the current Indian Constitution as the baseline?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 12 Nov 2009 04:18

Off the top of my head, here are some goals to consider for 2050.

In terms of foreign policy:

Uncontested political, military and economic hegemony over the Indian subcontinent, including Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Pakistan (or successor states thereof), Sri Lanka and Afghanistan... to a degree such as the US presently enjoys over North and Central America.

Significant strategic presence (enough to secure Indian interests and deny other powers uncontested hegemony) in a further arc encompassing Tanzania, Kazakhstan, the Koreas and Indonesia.

Significant trade presence globally.

The existence of an independent Tibet as a stable buffer state between ourselves and China.

In terms of domestic policy:

100% of citizens over 18 years old educated to pre-college level at a minimum.

In terms of economy:

At least 20% share of the world's GDP.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Nov 2009 04:40

The purpose of strategic thought/leadership of nation (I am using it as a synonym to Rashtra, Civilization etc) is to be in the game for the current generation, and prepare the nation for the next game.

This game doesn’t have a fixed goal (like in chess – to kill/capture the other players king, or tennis – to win a game of three sets). The goal is open-ended and infinite like life planning.

On the other dimension this game doesn’t have to be competitive as some ideologies think, or cooperative as Dharmics think. The more practical space is “coopetetive” space. Matured nations plan their strategic moves in this space.

Indian strategic space is an infinite-coopetetive space. The objective is to deliver the current objective of the game and be prepared for next game.

Given that perspective, the Indian National Agenda must focus on its food, health, economic, and defense security independence must be the primary agenda for next 5-10 years.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Nov 2009 07:49

Rudradev wrote:Off the top of my head, here are some goals to consider for 2050.

In terms of foreign policy:

Uncontested political, military and economic hegemony over the Indian subcontinent, including Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Pakistan (or successor states thereof), Sri Lanka and Afghanistan... to a degree such as the US presently enjoys over North and Central America.

Significant strategic presence (enough to secure Indian interests and deny other powers uncontested hegemony) in a further arc encompassing Tanzania, Kazakhstan, the Koreas and Indonesia.

Significant trade presence globally.

The existence of an independent Tibet as a stable buffer state between ourselves and China.

In terms of domestic policy:

100% of citizens over 18 years old educated to pre-college level at a minimum.

In terms of economy:

At least 20% share of the world's GDP.

Excellent post to which I will only add:

Jobs for the educated over 18
Potable water, sanitation, houses and healthcare for all
Womens rights and equality to be implemented better than it is in most countries in the world.
Changing Indian society from one of patronage and nepotism to one of good governance and legal rights for all.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 12 Nov 2009 08:01

Most important way towards it is investment in sustainable energy resources... If that starts happening, the points in post made by Rudradev ji and Shiv ji will actually come true..

A professor in my university said while a presentation that the Bay of Bengal region between TN and Andamans and African coastline to the south of Morocco in Atlantic have enough Wind energy potential to provide free electricity to entire world if the potential is exploited to 40%.

Won't it be awesome if India and China coupled with Australia and Japan could jointly invest in such strategic project for electricity in Asian grid? India will naturally have to be the protector and keeper of such massive establishment. I guess, something on these lines should be on the agenda of India.

This idea coupled with water grid (all the rivers in subcontinent linked to each other) in subcontinent will be a game-changer...

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Nov 2009 08:26

Recovery of Indian territories i.e., Aksai Chin, Pakistan etc to form a greater India
Uncontested political, military and economic hegemony over western Asia and Africa (Areas where we have soft power and natural alignments)
Significant worldwide impact through use of Soft Power

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 12 Nov 2009 08:27

(Aside : Something like "National Agenda for India, 2010-2015" or 2010-2020 would be more apt. Bill Gates once said that "ten years is far as I can see". If BG can see only 10 years away, we should plan for no more than 10 years. But then, it is all aside. When I was in IITD SY in 1988, the we had a debate on "India in 2000AD to 3000 AD" .

)

I have published my agenda in form of the DRAFTS of the laws I want to get passed ASAP. I have posted the details on BR 100s of times. All the drafts are on http://rahulmehta.com . So I will be brief.

Our agenda should be to get

1. A system where citizens can put their complaints on Prime Minister's website aka RTI2
2. Reduce poverty by giving mineral royalties and land rent to citizens
3. Enact procedures by which citizens can replace District Police Chiefs, SC-Cj, HC-Cj, PM, CM, RBI-Gov
4. Enact procedures by which citizens can replace officials at some 251 District, State, Central positions.
5. Enact wealth tax for Military
6. Enact Jury System
7. Enact procedures like Imprisonment by Majority, Confiscation by Majority, Execution by Majority for Class-I and above officers, Ministers, HCjs, SCjs and also make it optional for MLAs, MPs, etc.

and many more. All are listed on above URL. These points are all my election agenda as well. If you want more details, pls see the URL. And if you have questions, pls email me at [email protected] or call me at 98251-27780 .

====

brihaspati, all,

Shouldn't more BRites contest election from non-corrupt parties to get part or whole of the agenda implemented? Or how do you see agenda coming without more and more BRites contesting elections from non-corrupt parties? IMO, it is time BRites join non-corrupt parties or BR forms a party called as "Bharat Rakshak Party" aka Bhaa-Ra-Paa. No joke, I am serious. What do you think?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Nov 2009 08:31

Rahul,
Very impressive website. You come across as a very sincere, dedicated person who has made sacrifices for the nation. All the best.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 12 Nov 2009 08:59

Jarita wrote:Rahul,
Very impressive website. You come across as a very sincere, dedicated person who has made sacrifices for the nation. All the best.

Thanks

. And yes, AWMTA

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 12 Nov 2009 09:06

I think the zero-th point on the agenda is leadership. The country is shackled by corrupt and compromised leadership, who are either either shamelessly in bed with foreign powers, or are very amenable to arm-twisting.

Until this fundamental issue can be addressed, all other aerial castle-building is useless.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 12 Nov 2009 10:27

Pranav wrote:I think the zero-th point on the agenda is leadership. The country is shackled by corrupt and compromised leadership, who are either either shamelessly in bed with foreign powers, or are very amenable to arm-twisting. Until this fundamental issue can be addressed, all other aerial castle-building is useless.

100% AWMTA

. But this can be accompanied by OST ways only. All these OST ways are discussed in the Neta-Babu-judges thread. And as far as I see, there are no IST * ways available to reduce corruption and spinelessness in the leaders, IAS, IPS, judges etc.

Or, are there IST means to reduce corruption, spinelessness that anyone can tell?

(* IST = Inside the Scope of the Thread).

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Nov 2009 12:48

National Agenda for the foreseeable future can only be visualised if there is a National Strategy evolved for the foreseeable future. One wonder if there is any such strategy given that it is today Coalition politics, with each party having a different agenda and Govts cannot even implement the Common Minimum Programme.

The country does not have even a military grand strategy.

The whole ethos currently, be it political or military, is on a case to case basis. This cannot give a sound foundation to nation building.

While Hitler, Mao, Stalin or Monroe (Monroe Doctrine) can be called to question, yet they gave body to their national ambitions. Without meaning any disrespect, compare that with India. We cannot make up our minds as to what should be our policies towards are neighbours wherein we neither have the necessary clout nor the respect that a big neighbour should have. Compare that with China! They are swamping the sub continent and the Indian Ocean in a quiet and Machiavellian manner, while we twiddle our thumbs and only talk! We are good at only sloganeering - Garibi Hatao, Aam Admi and other such totally tommy rot! We are totally not serious about the future and instead only bother warming the seat of governance! Totally selfish!

We have not been able to synergies all the instruments of government towards a goal, let alone forge a national identity. People like Raj Thackeray is running amok and dreaming that Maharastra is an island by itself neyond the realms of India! Or Karunanidhi mumbles in his vernacular just like Raj as if that alone is a sign of their fierce regionalism that is superior to the concept of India! In short, ‘leaders’ like this venerate the concept of regionalism and sub nationalism and are allowed to do so and we talk of our ancient past that makes us one! If these are our ‘leaders’, what are we talking about of glorious past? It is the so called ‘leaders’ who shape our destiny and not the citizens at large!

Unless there is a pride toward a National Identity i.e. being an Indian, there can be no progress since we will look at issues from our narrow regional, community, communal, linguistic point of view! This Identity, given what one perceives currently, seems a Millennium away and sadly every other country will overtake us.

I appreciate the ire of people when I wonder aloud if lying on the Indic laurels is our salvation or accepting the realities of the fissures in society inherited thereafter and working our way out of the morass!

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 12 Nov 2009 13:08

All this brings us to the question whether a successful nation can be built without a strong conservative culture.

In India we have the following types of competing conservative cultures. There may be more and people can add to the ones below if so.

Indian conservatives i.e. what are called secularists
Hindu conservatives i.e. predominantly Hindu political groups
Muslim conservatives i.e. Mullahs and Muslim political groups

Who has the greatest chance of success?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Nov 2009 13:19

vera_k wrote:All this brings us to the question whether a successful nation can be built without a strong conservative culture.

In India we have the following types of competing conservative cultures. There may be more and people can add to the ones below if so.

Indian conservatives i.e. what are called secularists
Hindu conservatives i.e. predominantly Hindu political groups
Muslim conservatives i.e. Mullahs and Muslim political groups

Who has the greatest chance of success?

The answer is simple.

No appeasement whatever is the religious nonsense. If Vande Mataram is to be sung, it will be sung or go to Saudi Arabia! If conversation has to be approved by the DM, then it will be so!

Get cracking and sort the divisive forces out.

Something what Chidambaram is doing? No longer escaping reality!