India-Australia News and Discussion

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 10 Jan 2010 23:35

*edit*

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Jan 2010 04:52

Anuj, please take that news report away, this is a serious thread. TIA.

Official Spokesperson’s response on assistance by GOI for the family of Shri Nitin Garg

09/01/2010

An ex-gratia payment of Rs. 2.5 lakhs has been sanctioned by the Government of India (GOI) for the family of the victim, Late Shri Nitin Garg. GOI has also borne all expenses for the repatriation of the body of the deceased to India, including transportation. An officer of the CPV Division of MEA was at the Airport today, and assisted in the release of the body of, along with the family members of Late Shri Nitin Garg. Earlier, our Consulate in Melbourne had also extended all necessary facilitation for early release of the body of the victim, Late Shri Nitin Garg and had also assisted in repatriation of the body back to India.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Jan 2010 20:39

Telephonic conversation of External Affairs Minister with Australian Foreign Minister 11/01/2010

Australian Foreign Minister Stephen Smith telephoned External Affairs Minister, Shri S.M. Krishna, today afternoon. The Australian FM conveyed his condolences on the tragic deaths of Indian citizens in Australia in recent attacks, and said that the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister of Australia had already condemned these attacks. EAM conveyed his deep concern at the recent series of attacks especially in the last 10 days, which seem to have recurred after a period of relative calm of a few months. He reiterated the need for immediate corrective measures, pointing out that the issue had consistently figured in our Parliament.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith conveyed that he was conscious of the need for an early breakthrough in the ongoing investigations concerning these incidents, and that his Government attached the highest priority to ensure the continued well-being of Indian students. He was also appreciative of the concern in our Parliament following these unfortunate incidents. He conveyed his understanding of the spirit in which EAM had underlined GOI’s grave concerns.

EAM recalled that Australian leaders had time and again, reassured India that the Australian authorities were treating the incidents of assaults with utmost seriousness. However, the incidents seem to be continuing. He emphasized to the Australian Foreign Minister that non-redressal of this vital issue will cast a shadow on our otherwise excellent bilateral relations, and urged that the Australian government should immediately ensure that the concerned State police authorities deal with ongoing investigations with sensitivity and a sense of urgency.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 11 Jan 2010 22:44

^^^ No talks about preventive&precautionary measures from either side

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Jan 2010 23:25

I watched the short clip of funeral procession of Nitin Garg on TV. The whole city came out to bid farewell to him and extend support the family. Australian Diplomatic representative was there and he apologized for the incident and promised quick invetogation and punishment to the full extent of law.

debadutta · Post by **debadutta** » 12 Jan 2010 08:05

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 96409.aspx

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Jan 2010 08:09

^^^ Sounds good. We'll send 100 MM of them to you

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 12 Jan 2010 13:05

Another day, another victim!

The ironic part is that inspite of all the media hulla baloo, the Ozies are sitting pretty doing nothing, while the Indians are fighting and bickering amongst themselves! A very typical indian trait!

last evening Timenow show had Farrukh Dhondy, G Parthasarathy, Sanjay Srivastava, Prof, Sociology, Institute of Economic Growth, Delhi University. This SS seems to be the kind who will own up to murder if the price paid is good. TarunVijay on another channel even accused him of speaking for his pay masters!
Sanjay has been going on all channels saying that Oz is not racists and fault lies with india, ofcourse spouting the steins case as indian equal equal.
But what rankles is that G Parthasarathy made a complete ass of himself, spouting the pseudo-elitists concerns. He has joined the Indians are to be blamed brigade.
As per him, "some indians" have become a "cause of embarrasment" for "some other indians". --> read it as : "economically weaker indians from hinterland" embarass the "well to-do" indians.

The only sane voice came from Farrukh Dhondy, who gave a befitting slap to Parthasarathy, right at the end of the show.
The issue is not that the "some embarrasing indians" are going there for hair dressing courses. Fact is that they have gone on legitimate visas issues by Ozies after paying through their noses, and hence are there legally.
But the ilk of glib talk-first--think-later indians like Parthasarathy are just too embararssed by them there. Just like some indians are too embarassed to see rustics within india but wont do anything to improve their lot.

I am afraid if this is the elitist and almost feudal attitude of our ex-high commisioners, no wonder indians complain that their embassies do not look after their interests abroad.
I have lost all respect for GParthasarathy. May he live in Oz as a brown sahib.

Ofcourse i am sure facts will tell us that even "the not so embarrasing, english speaking well to do" indians also getting attacked.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Jan 2010 13:55

It is a very interesting situation where, as Swapan Dasgupta, points out that the so called low end education is but a way to resident permit hunting. Interesting to note his analysis how Australia has so ingenuously designed the education market wherein work permits are made to appear as education oriented and the Australian Govt reaps a huge fee in the bargain. If Dasgupta can see through the game, I wonder how come the mandarins in the GOI have failed to see it. Or is to JO Ho, So Ho attitude in GOI? We have also seen reports of Indian workers in Saudi Arabia, who are but new age slaves. Heart wrenching!

On the other hand, neither the Australian Govt nor the Indian Govt is serious about addressing the killings. Is there complicity and if not, what is the rationale that while the US defends its citizens, we are so slow to act. I understand US has the power that we don’t have, but should we be so moribund?

I read a letter to the Editor, where an Indian who has Australian citizenship IIRC who said that the Asians are known by the country of their origin i.e. Indian, Chinese etc, but the European origin citizens are called Australians and the Aborigines are called Abos. So, there indeed is a distinct racial divide in Australia.

One wonders what the answer is. If we (RBI) stop education loans to those who wish to study or ‘study’ in Australia, it will indeed be a serious blow to Australia. How will it affect the Indians who would have wished to study/ ‘study’ there? Will such a move hurt Australia?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Jan 2010 14:16

If we indians even after knowning that racism exists down under, but still want to go study there, what can GoI do with that. Shouldnt we as a citizen take the proper decision. Point is indian sill go study there even if more indians get killed

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 12 Jan 2010 14:19

Looking at the situation, we have to encourage a certain type of emigration to Australia while discouraging another type. I think this can be done by introducing some type of bond or subsidy payback scheme for students wishing to emigrate. Presumably the rough and tough demographic will not be impacted by this scheme and will therefore emigrate to Australia in larger numbers while the more civilised and delicate types will stay back in India.

Another option is to institute an ECNR type check for all emigrants to Australia where a GoI official would screen Australian universities and colleges and decide whether the person is likely to be safe during his stay.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 12 Jan 2010 14:30

krishnan wrote:If we indians even after knowning that racism exists down under, but still want to go study there, what can GoI do with that. Shouldnt we as a citizen take the proper decision. Point is indian sill go study there even if more indians get killed

I concede that point.

But why are Indians going?

Can we analyse that desire and see what can or should be done?

Why is there kabutarbazi in the Punjab?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Jan 2010 14:36

One aspect that some here said was the universities. Some of them seems to be the best in its class. So the only choice is to come up with some world class universities in india itself.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Jan 2010 14:52

krishnan wrote:One aspect that some here said was the universities. Some of them seems to be the best in its class. So the only choice is to come up with some world class universities in india itself.

The part that I am interested in is in basically sending a lot of mid-low level trained manpower to Australia to spread the good word.

We need some solutions to achieve that -- however considering that the kind of folks we are talking about go even to the Gulf region (with far worse conditions) -- all we need to do is manage to scare the trained folks from going to Australia and the rest would happen automatically given the current population dynamics.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Jan 2010 14:54

krishnan wrote:One aspect that some here said was the universities. Some of them seems to be the best in its class. So the only choice is to come up with some world class universities in india itself.

And some Aussie Universities are faltu. Both good and faltu Univs admit if you pay money. People with or without money in India join IIT or REC if they can. Failing that they join other coleges in India. Still India has people left over. If they have money to go abroad they do. Vut from India it is impossible to say which is a faltoo univ. Those who go to US or UK have a reasonable time. Its only in Australia that their are having trouble.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 12 Jan 2010 15:11

krishnan wrote:If we indians even after knowning that racism exists down under, but still want to go study there, what can GoI do with that. Shouldnt we as a citizen take the proper decision. Point is indian sill go study there even if more indians get killed

The alternative being ???
a) stop studying, because not getting a seat in college in india because of low marks, quota , less seats -- For those who want to study
b) continue in squalor, because not being able to earn a lively hood locally to pull there families out of the poverty. -- For those who use it as an employment source

As long as we cant provide for them, can we deny them?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 12 Jan 2010 15:13

Some statistics/tidbits from The Age, Herald and SMH

1) 1700 Indians get attacked per 100,000 pop which is 2 1/2 times more than the other ethnicities, (700 per 100k), this is per The Age's calculation using official police statistics for 2006-07.
2) Yet the same report claims that more of the attacks go unreported, as immigrants who are in a dicey visa situation (who are often the most vulnerable to late-night attacks) dont report minor or even serious injuries.
3) Knife attacks are most common, not gun-ones, and the police claim helplessness in preventing knife proliferation as they are chini made super-cheap ones.
4) Indians are not the only ones to be attacked, black Africans also claim to be significant victims. Vietnamese, chinis claim its all ok. Lebanese, croatians, and early immigrants claim nothing racist in Oz.
5) Royal Melbourne Hosp and the Alfred Hosp have seen a significant rise in the number of knife attack victims over the last 10 years.
6) FISA chief Gautam Gupta had a nice response in The Herald (a tabloid) saying, "the issue is more about accepting the fact that racism exists in Oz, just like in every country in the world. Once you accept the bare basics, we can sit down and talk and figure ways to handle this mess. We have issues even in the first step."
7) The chini representative claimed that they dont face any racism now, so they have been here for like 25+ years.
8 ) As Philip said, the caricature to Romper Stomper type attacks is very much used, I saw three or four reports that said the same thing.
9) The major reason for attacks cited in an informal survey was that Romper Stomper type teens find it hard to accept that places they grew up in have become multi-culti in a short span of time. There was another reason cited too: Indians are making things a big deal cos Oz refused to sell India Uranium.
10) There was a reverse KKK cartoon in the Herald, sounded boring and not funny or not even cool nuff to catch attn-span.
11) Nitin Garg's death and the subsequent attn from India has seen a huge following in the newspapers of Oz, for once I see quite some white space allocated to this issue.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 12 Jan 2010 15:41

I think Australia should do proper investigation of who is behind attacks. I sure significant number of white australians are against any racism. I suspect more of Islamo-porki-middle-east-pacific islander type's at work here because they can do this and it will be blamed on majority of australian population in guise of racism and australian-Indian relations will be strained. There can be multiple conspirators at work here. However, I could be wrong, just a thought !

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 12 Jan 2010 16:28

I am afraid if this is the elitist and almost feudal attitude of our ex-high commisioners, no wonder indians complain that their embassies do not look after their interests abroad.

I am glad someone nailed that. The problem is much deeper though. Pseudo elitist feudal mindset folks are dominating a lot of our strategic spheres including the Armed forces and strategic foreign relationships agendas. It is exemplified by the TOI Aman crap. It is not the leftists or jhollawalas that are dominating such. I have personally observed disdain for desi DRDO scientists and certainly an elitist bias that seeps into creating further hurdles to innovation and indigenous production. Same thing with our diplomats. This is a mindset that has to be exposed and ridiculed. All said and done, Mr Parthasarthy is no leftist. He is sharp, extremely knowledgable on Indo-Pak affairs.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Jan 2010 17:07

AdityaM wrote:
krishnan wrote:If we indians even after knowning that racism exists down under, but still want to go study there, what can GoI do with that. Shouldnt we as a citizen take the proper decision. Point is indian sill go study there even if more indians get killed
The alternative being ???
a) stop studying, because not getting a seat in college in india because of low marks, quota , less seats -- For those who want to study
b) continue in squalor, because not being able to earn a lively hood locally to pull there families out of the poverty. -- For those who use it as an employment source

As long as we cant provide for them, can we deny them?

As i said people who want to go will go irrespective of the situation. WIll indians stop going to foreign univ if things change here?

There was this guy, a graphic designer earning around 20K per month in india. But he went to aus and is now working in some courier company.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 12 Jan 2010 17:25

Racism in Australia against Indians has been going on for a while. I personally know my friend who joined in Hobart University, on scholarship from the GOI for SC/ST's. Actually he was already doing B.Tech Comp. Sci. from IIT Kanpur, but he was attacted to the $2,000/- scholarship from GOI. This was in 1991 (Almost 20 years back)

He was a brilliant student, just missed state rank by 2 marks, got very good rank in EAMCET, and in JEE he got the All India Rank of 2 (Separate Rankings for ST's). He was so poor, that his mother used to work as House-Maid. His father was a drunkard and used to be womanizer and he used to stay away from home (It was a Hut in the outskirts of a city). All his aim was to make her mother not work as a house-maid. The scholarship he was getting in IIT Kanpur was too less. So he decided to go to Hobart, only because of the $2,000/- Scholarship. It was fully sponsored by the GOI. After 6 months he came back for Vacation, and he was very happy with the Scholarship and the money. He was scared, and told me that there is lot of Racism in the University Campus, and he did chose a very bad University. He went back, and Three months later very badly decomposed body of a 19-20 year old male was brought to India. His mother was illiterate, and his father actually tried to protest, but there was no use. Even the GoI could not do much except that they gave sketchy details of his death, that he was stabbed multiple times and was tied to a big rock and put into small stream and his decomposed body was found after 20 days when it was floating. Somehow, GoI was able to bring back the Body. That was the first time I ever heard of Racism.

These kind of incidents have been happening for almost 20 years, and GoI after many protests could not prove a thing. Now the media activism has been a deliberate act by GoI to make the Australians behave, or atleast bring to notice of world of the Racism against Indians.

I wonder, somehow the learned people like G Parthasarathy and B Raman, why they are sympathetic towards Australians defending them that they are no longer Racist, they have been trying to come out of the Racist Tag, and the Media should be restrained kind of advices.

The number of un-reported Racist Attacks on Indians must be in Multiples of those what we see now. GoI has been very very unsuccessful to bring to book those guilty of Racism, though they tried hard. This is what I know for sure.

Almost all the people who go to study in Australia are of age group 20-25, and they have very less understanding of the Living Conditions in Australia, except they fall for the Glamour of Cricket Grounds and the High Raise Buildings and those locations shown in Bollywood or Tollywood songs.

I always used to advice the people to go to US or UK for studies but not to Australia or Canada. If you have loads of money (self earned, not your parents money) and secure job, then these two countries are safe (as you would have got maturity to understand the Risks and mitigate them), otherwise, avoid them.

JMT

Arihant · Post by **Arihant** » 12 Jan 2010 17:34

RayC wrote:It is a very interesting situation where, as Swapan Dasgupta, points out that the so called low end education is but a way to resident permit hunting. Interesting to note his analysis how Australia has so ingenuously designed the education market wherein work permits are made to appear as education oriented and the Australian Govt reaps a huge fee in the bargain. If Dasgupta can see through the game, I wonder how come the mandarins in the GOI have failed to see it. Or is to JO Ho, So Ho attitude in GOI? We have also seen reports of Indian workers in Saudi Arabia, who are but new age slaves. Heart wrenching!

On the other hand, neither the Australian Govt nor the Indian Govt is serious about addressing the killings. Is there complicity and if not, what is the rationale that while the US defends its citizens, we are so slow to act. I understand US has the power that we don’t have, but should we be so moribund?

I read a letter to the Editor, where an Indian who has Australian citizenship IIRC who said that the Asians are known by the country of their origin i.e. Indian, Chinese etc, but the European origin citizens are called Australians and the Aborigines are called Abos. So, there indeed is a distinct racial divide in Australia.

One wonders what the answer is. If we (RBI) stop education loans to those who wish to study or ‘study’ in Australia, it will indeed be a serious blow to Australia. How will it affect the Indians who would have wished to study/ ‘study’ there? Will such a move hurt Australia?

There is an interesting emerging phenomenon that sees the entrenched (and relatively affluent) Indian expatriate population in Australia arguing against the proposition that racism is rampant. In my own opinion, they are wrong. Racism is widespread and very evident. I speak from personal experience. It seems to me that the Indian expats in Australia are displaying symptoms of the Stockholm Syndrome.

As I have said before in this forum, we will hurt our case if our kids stop going to Australia - there will be nothing left to stop the creeping Sinicization of Australian society.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jan 2010 19:14

I thought Canada was a fairly liberal country (urban areas) . didnt get any "looks" or "vibes" wandering around toronto atleast.

is it a ok destination for higher studies in decent univs like mcgill ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Jan 2010 19:40

Many students who are studying in Oz are doing so because of hopes of permanent residence there,as Oz faces a massive shortage of skilled labour.I had a long conversation with an Oz expert recently who enlightened me about Indian migration.I also know of many friends who have relatives,children in the country.The recent attacks are not difficult to understand given the country's history,where there has been a white supremacist mindset for decades,if not centuries.However,the attitude of the Oz-trich like govt. of Oz is perplexing as Oz supposedly fears the Chinese and wants better relations with India.If it thinks that that means that India must behave like colonial "coolies" and our folk can be treated like Abos have been down the decades,then dream on cobber!

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Jan 2010 20:37

TKiran wrote:Racism in Australia against Indians has been going on for a while. I personally know my friend who joined in Hobart University, on scholarship from the GOI for SC/ST's. Actually he was already doing B.Tech Comp. Sci. from IIT Kanpur, but he was attacted to the $2,000/- scholarship from GOI. This was in 1991 (Almost 20 years back)

What a tragic happening?

On that note, Canada is a very good place for Indian students as well. I am certain there is some racism but Indians have a lot of clout in the country. It also has good educational institutions.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 12 Jan 2010 20:49

Re: Stockholm syndrome
Applies to those who're taken forcible. Has a notion of paradox to it.
You were forced but you still support them.

Cannot be used for immigrants. They weren't forced.
They immigrated of their own free will. Sold all that they had in some cases.
In a minority of cases they endured extreme hardships to reach these lands.

Can be explained by loyalty instead.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Jan 2010 20:53

^^^ Nopes
It is still stockholm syndrome - the force equivalent is colonialism.

Beyond loyalty I believe it is self preservation. They don't want to raise a hue and cry if they want to live in Australia

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 12 Jan 2010 20:55

It is still stockholm syndrome - the force equivalent is colonialism.

How did colonialism force them into Australia?

The point in S. Syndrome is forcible kidnapping but still support for the kidnappers.
There's no forcible anything in immigration.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Jan 2010 23:28

Just heard another Indian killed - no links yet
http://ow.ly/VHv3

Am wondering at the expense of being racist if the convict population of Australia had an extra Y chromosone. Significantly higher proportion of XYY population lands in prison.
It is highly likely that this concentration has led to a high population of XYY's(think neo nazis, bikers etc) in the Australian population
We are seeing the impact

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 13 Jan 2010 01:03

Write up on this by Rajinder Puri

http://www.boloji.com/myword/mwna098.html

It is not as if Indians dominate Asian communities in Australia. There are 203,143 Chinese, 180,352 Vietnamese and 153,179 Indians in Australia. Even smaller Malaysia has 103,147 residents in Australia. From 2004 to 2009 the number of Indians studying in Australia rose from 30,000 to 97,000. China has well over 130,000 students in Australia. The Chinese Embassy spokesman in Canberra expressed concern over attacks against Indian students and sought better protection for all foreign students. However, regarding Chinese students he acknowledged: “They have on the whole had good study and living environment in Australia.”

The attacks therefore are primarily against Indians. This is not racism. This is a clear anti-India assault.

Have the Australian police zeroed in on some of the attackers and verified if there has been substantial addition to their declared or undeclared assets? Have they tried to trace the trail behind the attacks to see if there is any organized operation at work? In 2009 on 8 June, 9 June and 10 June, Indian students claimed they were being attacked by Lebanese and being ignored by the police. Have Australian authorities probed why Lebanese should have altercated with Indians?

A deliberate organized attack targeting Indians in Australia seems to be under way. As yet Australian authorities have shown little resolve to stop it. Such unrestricted warfare will seriously damage Indo-Australian ties in the long term.

Someone does not want us in Australia. Maybe we can find out who that someone is and do a tit for tat

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 13 Jan 2010 01:10

Jarita wrote:Someone does not want us in Australia. Maybe we can find out who that someone is and do a tit for tat

what do you mean?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 13 Jan 2010 01:17

^^^ Please read link. Author is suggesting an organized group behind attacks on Indians. That seems plausible given that statistically attacks on Indians are much higher.
We need to figure out who is behind this and get back at them?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 13 Jan 2010 01:23

^
Impression I got was retaliation on Indian soil, which would be sheer lunacy. I think MEA is doing its job well so far.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 13 Jan 2010 01:26

^^ May be our illustrious neighbours to the east

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 13 Jan 2010 08:45

The ministry, in a statement on Monday, said Krishna conveyed 'his deep concern' over the attacks, which included an attempt by a group of men to set fire to a 29-year-old Indian man in Melbourne on Saturday.

Krishna 'emphasised to the Australian foreign minister that non-redressal of this vital issue will cast a shadow on otherwise excellent bilateral relations,' it said.

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Nationa ... 16679.html

---

"Australia needs to take all possible steps to ensure security of our citizens. They need to convince not only the government but also the people of the country about steps taken to ensure safety of our citizens," Ravi said.

Expressing serious concern about the recent attacks, including killing of 21-year-old student Nitin Garg a week ago, Ravi said "for India, every life of its citizen is precious".

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 434057.cms

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 13 Jan 2010 09:45

An Australian viewpoint -
India: Australia's reputation suffers by Rory Medcalf
He tries to explain, but after reading him, I am not convinced. I must say that the 'Indian interpretation' still appears correct.
I refer to this from his article -

multiculturalism-induced silence is being interpreted in India as denial or obfuscation

None of what he himself recommends - that Aussies go on the 'frontfoot,' have happened, so it should be clear to him why we interpret the actions as denial and obfuscation. Sorry, mate!

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 13 Jan 2010 16:42

Australia will not be allowed to play in Maharashtra: Bal Thackeray
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_a ... ay_1334201

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 13 Jan 2010 22:10

Pedophile on the loose (was in Orissa)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2010 02:14

Australia has a history of racism as shown by the stats and their own Oscar winning movies.
However one cant deny the Indian students the oppurtunity to try their luck there. GOI highlighting the issues helps in keeping the focus on the issue of racism. Other than covert gathering of information I dont see what else they can do. Having RBI deny money cuts off our own people. Maybe an orientation course prior to the study period could be useful. And bilateral pressure on Aussies at all sorts of platforms could induce them to implement some policing.

The ex-Ambassador's views could be related to potentiality of uranium trade. He doesn't want that to be called off.

vish_mulay · Post by **vish_mulay** » 14 Jan 2010 09:02

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 5819009767

Another attack on Indian place of worship in Melbourne. I do remember the famous Shiv-Vishnu temple at Dandenong was also vandalized few months back. I am at Sydney and so far have not faced any racist act but thinking of moving back to Desh or US. I have lived in US for more than 10 years but never felt so insecure.