Indian Naval Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jun 2010 19:11

if you plug 17 25'25N , 82 52'38 E is village of ramkonda (rambilli) which has been mentioned as a potential site. note the
500x2500m hill at water edge which is 100m high and hence strong enough to shrug off a direct attack by a nuclear device.
a Sanya style cavern could be dug underneath, the sea channels widened and we'd be in business.

only thing is its 50km from vizag, not 200km, so perhaps other such sites are being looked at.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Jun 2010 22:07

We are reaching closer and closer to seeing a scene like below, only that it is delivered by a Indian officer..

Crimson Tide Speech

( PS: why isnt the [youtube] tab linking the youtube video??)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Jun 2010 12:44

one looks forward to a bollywood film using a plywood sub and big-B as the SSBN commander :roft: akshay kumar as the kamandu frogman set for a seal mission and ranbir kapoor as the captains son who just happens to be on board for a deterrent patrol because he hid in a cupboard.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Jun 2010 20:17

Considering the SSBN/SSN will carry nuclear weapons on board and will also have a nuclear reactor , it is quite normal to build dedicated bases for such vessel far from the normal naval bases , the other reason would be to maintain operational security.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 14 Jun 2010 00:54

Indian Navy to Commission INS Cankaso and INS Kondul FACs This Month

To provide more teeth to its coastal security and surveillance capabilities, the Navy will induct two more water jet propelled Fast Attack Craft (FACs) in Visakhapatnam by this month-end.The two FACs, built by Kolkata-based Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE), will be based in the eastern coast to facilitate Navy to carry out patrols and intercept rogue ships, Navy officers said here today.

Named INS Cankaso and INS Kondul, two island territories of India, these would be the fifth and sixth FACs under the Car Nicobar class of craft that India began building in 2007.

The Navy has already inducted four FACs under this class -- Car Nicobar, Chetlat, Korah Divh and Cheriyam -- last year as part of the fast-track process following the Mumbai terror attacks, when Pakistani terrorists used a boat to reach the coast of the metropolis.

bksahu · Post by **bksahu** » 14 Jun 2010 11:02

Craig Sir,

Is FACs are fitted with some kind of missiles also or only Machine Guns?

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 14 Jun 2010 11:10

INS Arihant Crew on USS Annapolis

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 14 Jun 2010 19:39

Navy deploys four Dornier aircraft in Singapore

"Four Dornier have landed in Singapore and these aircraft will remain there for four days to carry out surveillance sorties," a Navy officer said here.

The Dorniers would assist the Indian Navy ships INS Rana and INS Ranjit, guided missile destroyers, INS Jyothi, a fleet tanker and INS Kulish, a missile corvette, that are operating in the waters on their way back home after a month-long deployment on the eastern seaboard.

"The four aircraft would carry out coordinated surveillance along with the Indian Navy ships operating in the waters around Singapore," the officer said.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 14 Jun 2010 22:26

^^^^

Interesting development. Now the IN has the capability to reconnoiter passage of ships on seas around the NE of Sunda Straits too! If Malacca and Sunda can be reconnoitered from the same airbase in Singapore, the IN will get itself a great advantage controlling the Eastern gates of the IO.

This is the Look East policy will finally pay off even if we can only use Singapore as a reconnaissance base if needed. This is a familiarity trip for the IN, to get comfortable with the area and its surroundings.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 15 Jun 2010 00:48

Yeah, putting 4 Dornier's is an awesome idea. They should look for a permanent refueling point and staging area there. One could as time goes by replace the Dornier's with Boeing as they get inducted.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 15 Jun 2010 01:30

bksahu wrote:Craig Sir,

Is FACs are fitted with some kind of missiles also or only Machine Guns?

My good friend google says
"The armament includes the 30mm CRN-91 Gun along with sensors manufactured by Ordnance Factory, Medak. The ships are equipped with IGLA missiles, SLRs, HMGs and LMG/MMG in their armament fit. These features are an up-dation over ships of the previous class and the current version of design is comparable with similar ships, built across the world."

Hope this answers your question sirjee!!

sum · Post by **sum** » 15 Jun 2010 08:49

Shalav wrote:^^^^

Interesting development. Now the IN has the capability to reconnoiter passage of ships on seas around the NE of Sunda Straits too! If Malacca and Sunda can be reconnoitered from the same airbase in Singapore, the IN will get itself a great advantage controlling the Eastern gates of the IO.

This is the Look East policy will finally pay off even if we can only use Singapore as a reconnaissance base if needed. This is a familiarity trip for the IN, to get comfortable with the area and its surroundings.

Finally, after all the Ungli which China has been putting in our backyard, time to pay back with interest.

Let the games begin. Also, like the way the IN assertively says that planes are on a "surveillance" mission and not putting up the usual "peaceful purpose onlee, not directed at anyone onlee" which GoI loves to mouth...

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 15 Jun 2010 12:42

"Four Dornier have landed in Singapore and these aircraft will remain there for four days to carry out surveillance sorties," a Navy officer said here.

Only for 4 days, should make it permanent. But I am happy, something is better then nothing

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Jun 2010 13:04

that area crawls with merchant ships. they will get good practise on processing 100s of radar contacts.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 15 Jun 2010 13:31

Guess this belongs here

Defence spare parts worth Rs 18 cr go missing

Mystery surrounds the disappearance of a highly sensitive consignment of defence spare parts worth Rs 18 crore that was headed for the Indian Navy yard in Kochi, where some the fleet's most celebrated ships -- including flagship aircraft carrier INS Viraat -- routinely dock for repairs.

Even more shocking is that though the goods went missing in January, while in transit from Mumbai, the Navy formally complained to the police only last week.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 15 Jun 2010 14:47

Assuming that missile destroyer ranjit is positioned just off the coast of singapore, i calculated its radar and missile coverage in the malacca straits.
constants: at scale of 200 km, 1p=2.33 km
Range of MR-310U Angara radar=55p
Range of SS-N-2D AShMs= 33p
Some calculations were rounded off for ease of calculating.

Green shows missile coverage and blue shows radar coverage. Info taken from br navy section and wikipedia.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 16 Jun 2010 19:23

India to Set Up Marine Brigade

After years of consultations, the Indian Army and Indian Navy have put forth the proposal to the Indian government to permit the transport of an independent brigade group (IBG), comprising of a 5,000-strong armed infantry and special forces troops, tanks and weapons outside Indian mainland for various defence related and humanitarian operations.

According to the Indian Navy, this move has been suggested in order to focus security on India’s island territories as well as providing humanitarian relief in those regions. The Indian Army and Navy are working in tandem to build up this full-brigade strength contingent of troops consisting of two Special Forces units to secure India’s 1,200 island territories.

The setting up of the IBG is expected to have heavy financial implications besides being considered strategically provocative by neighbouring regions. The IBG will mainly involve the acquisition of larger amphibious assault vessels, equipment and joint training.

While the Indian Army has an IBG which is the 340 Independent Infantry Brigade under Jodhpur-based 12 Corps for amphibious assault operations as well as the 91 Infantry Brigade for amphibious warfare, the Indian Navy is lagging behind in terms of such a large capacity.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 16 Jun 2010 20:50

Invasion troops slated for the landings on Clifton beach!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jun 2010 00:14

^^^Sum, IN planes (Tupolev) from INS Rajali used to patrol the South China Seas in the 90s per Sandy Gordon the Aussie security expert. Could be true could be scare tactics.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 17 Jun 2010 01:19

High-drama rescue, courtesy Navy, for ship near Mumbai

At sea, 300 miles from Mumbai, an oil tanker was being battered by huge waves. The Coast Guard received a distress message from the ship, the MV Jana, at 4 pm on Sunday.

Three crew members on board the tanker had been seriously injured after a particularly high wave crashed into the shop. One of the men had broken his legs and ribs.

The weather meant that the Coast Guard could not send its own helicopter for help. So it asked the Navy to step in. A Seaking was sent for the rescue operation and the three injured crew members were air-lifted.

They are now recovering at a Mumbai hospital.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Jun 2010 02:45

June 16, 2010 :: Indian Navy Pursues Fixed-Wing Carrier AEW

With one indigenous aircraft carrier in the pipeline—and a second to follow—the navy is convinced it needs a fixed-wing AEW platform, if not for the first, then definitely for the second aircraft carrier.

Earlier this year, Northrop Grumman officials revealed the company was awaiting guidance from the navy following technical briefings. Company executives have also reportedly been in discussion with the navy about the feasibility of installing a catapult launch system on India’s second indigenous aircraft carrier, a suggestion already under active consideration by naval designers here.

While the navy has variously weighed the option of considering other longer-range rotary-wing airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) platforms, it has persisted with its view that its fleet of Ka-31s simply will not fulfill its early-warning requirements if it has two aircraft carrier battle groups in the coming decade. Doctrine published three years ago emphasized the need for AEW platforms with meaningful time on station.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 17 Jun 2010 03:03

sum wrote:^^^^

Let the games begin. Also, like the way the IN assertively says that planes are on a "surveillance" mission and not putting up the usual "peaceful purpose onlee, not directed at anyone onlee" which GoI loves to mouth...

Sir,

Might I say that it is unlikely that the IN would say this without the GOI approving? But I agree, it is a positive development. One must demonstrate intent to deploy capability if said capability is to act as deterrent.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Jun 2010 03:15

DTI :: June, 2010 :: Interview with Adm Verma

Interesting stuff in there.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 17 Jun 2010 09:58

There are some news in local newspaper about some IN spare parts been lost/stolen by transport company meant for Kochi. Also says that there was some problem with INS Viraat few days back and needed some maraamat and hence spareparts were on the way from Mumbai to Kochi. Transporter is saying the spare parts were burnt along with the truck on the way. Strange..!!
Though no such news in any English newpaper.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Jun 2010 10:57

mohan wrote: Sir,

Might I say that it is unlikely that the IN would say this without the GOI approving? But I agree, it is a positive development. One must demonstrate intent to deploy capability if said capability is to act as deterrent.

Exactly, GoI surely would have given the nod for statements like these. Thats why i mentioned that good to see India/IN asserting herself instead of trying to be coy about her ambitions..

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 18 Jun 2010 03:48

BALLE BALLE AIP, yet THALLE THALLE for not going ahead with MDL...

India to Kick-Start Submarine Acquisition

ndia Defence Online, New Delhi — The Indian Defence Ministry is expected to iron out the rough spots in the Project 75-i for the Indian Navy involving the French Scorpene submarines, which will improve the underwater combat capabilities of India. The $6 billion programme involving the second line of submarines has been plagued with constant delays.

Project 75-i is three years behind schedule and the six new submarines were to roll out in 2012 onwards, with one submarine being developed per annum. The Indian Defence Ministry has not yet been able to identify a shipyard for this crucial programme in the public or private sector.

The Indian Navy has been pressing the Defence Ministry to opt for a shipyard other than the Mazagon Docks, which has its hands full, for the initiation of Project-75I. Following this, a tie-up with the foreign manufacturer can be started for the manufacturing of the vessels. The RFP (request for proposal) to submarine manufacturers like Rosoboronexport of Russia, DCNS/Armaris of France, HDW of Germany and Navantia of Spain can be issued only after the shipyard is identified.

The project 75-i involves six Scorpene submarines to be built at the Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) shipyard under a transfer of technology agreement with France’s DCNS for the Indian Navy. The submarines were being acquired under a $3.6 billion contract signed in 2005 and will be commissioned in the Indian Navy from 2012 through 2018. In June 2009, the Project 75-i had fallen 2 years behind schedule and France had hiked up the price of some key components resulting in a per boat price increase from $500 million to $600 million.

Meanwhile, a proposal to fit an additional section in the submarine for vertically launched Brahmos missiles was shelved with the Indian Navy preferring an Air independent propulsion (AIP) unit instead. The Indian Navy wants all the six new submarines to be equipped with AIP systems to boost their operational capabilities, apart from having stealth, land-attack capability and the ability to incorporate futuristic technologies. While conventional submarines need to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries, AIP systems can stay submerged for much longer periods.

The Indian Navy desperately needs this second line of submarines because in a few years, the Indian Navy will be left with just five to six of its present fleet of 16 diesel-electric submarines which includes 10 Russian Kilo-class submarines, four German HDW and two virtually obsolete Foxtrot submarines. While India lags behind China and Pakistan in terms of nuclear submarines, it hopes to make its indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant operational in a couple of years. when the hell did Pakistan get Nuke Subs???? Besides, it is also inducting the Akula-II class attack submarine `K-152 Nerpa’ on the basis of a ten year lease from Russia this year.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 18 Jun 2010 04:21

Is there nothing out there that provides constant 1 or 2 MW aka a nuclear battery of sorts ? That runs for say 5 years. Small and efficient. That way, you don't need the complicated systems for managing AIP systems, yet get constant juice for low speed but long submerged time?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jun 2010 07:41

AIP is of multiple types. the siemens fuel cell used in HDW subs is claimed as the best at current technology and doesnt involve any volatile chemicals.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 18 Jun 2010 08:57

Craig Alpert wrote: yet THALLE THALLE for not going ahead with MDL...

Why thalle thalle? MDL already has it's hands full with 6 Scorpenes, grappling actually. Its best they start afresh with some other shipyard in tandem.

nash · Post by **nash** » 18 Jun 2010 09:56

The project 75-i involves six Scorpene submarines to be built at the Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) shipyard under a transfer of technology agreement with France’s DCNS for the Indian Navy.

I thought P-75-i is for next line of sub after scorpene....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jun 2010 10:54

bloom energy has a pickup truck sized generator that only does 100kw. occupies one american car parking space.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 18 Jun 2010 12:11

nukavarapu wrote: Anyone who has a capability of making 1-2 MWe nuclear reactor/battery/whatever, will become an instant billionaire. The best way would be to use radioactive material in a thermoelectric battery, but would be too in-efficient for 1-2 MWe requirements.

The Americans already have the ability to build micro reactors. So do the Russians but to a lesser degree than the Americans. The main problem with the micro reactors is that they are exorbitantly costly and not as reliable as regular Gen IV reactors. I think maybe even the Japanese have the capability for making micro reactors . The main technological evolution for these reactor types is metallurgical. You need light weight shielding and light weight tubing to channel the hot gasses/material. In the 50s the USAF actually had a program to build a nuclear powered bomber that could stay indefinitely in the air with crews alternating 8 hour shifts. They spent billions and in the end they didn't have the metallurgical capability to do so back then but the idea of miniaturizing nuke reactors never truly died. They tried it again in the 70s for powering satellites.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 Jun 2010 12:12

Singha wrote:bloom energy has a pickup truck sized generator that only does 100kw. occupies one american car parking space.

Is that Air-Independent?

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 18 Jun 2010 12:26

Dileep wrote:
Singha wrote:bloom energy has a pickup truck sized generator that only does 100kw. occupies one american car parking space.
Is that Air-Independent?

Nope. Bloombox as it is called uses Oxygen and Natural Gas (methane) to generate electricity along with water, hydrogen, pure carbon dioxide and heat.

Check it out here: http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/sol ... animation/

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 18 Jun 2010 15:41

Tarkash launch scheduled 23rd June (previous date - 8th July).

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 18 Jun 2010 18:01

nukavarapu wrote: It would be very great, if you can provide me any source.

Well I didn't exactly do an in depth search but one of the first links I found was of Toshiba that talked about a 200kw personal nuclear reactor that they built, they are selling it as of 2009 in Europe, the US and Japan . Here is the link: http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/nex ... 2.17b.html

This is what Japanese companies can do commercially. you can bet that DARPA and the like have nuclear reactors that are much more compact and maybe even portable in a truck.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Jun 2010 19:30

Guys,
Please read the thread from the AFM which dealt with tea-kettle nuke subs. The link was posted on BRF some time ago.

Tea-kettle nuclear submarines!

This should answer many questions that you may have

Regards

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 18 Jun 2010 19:49

SNaikji,
Is there going to be a good press coverage of the event? or are we going to get only two or three photos (good ones, but just a few still) by DPR? Would like to see more of those beautiful ships!

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 18 Jun 2010 20:06

A good story about "not so good" Russians. BTW, Tupolev had a nuclear version of Tu-95 in the 50's as well.

Google translation from Russian required:
http://www.popmech.ru/article/5062-skaz ... -reaktore/
http://voland.blog.ru/56038931.html

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 18 Jun 2010 20:08

K Mehta wrote:SNaikji,
Is there going to be a good press coverage of the event? or are we going to get only two or three photos (good ones, but just a few still) by DPR? Would like to see more of those beautiful ships!

The coverage is not going to be something like Severodvinsk launch but adequate. I'm trying to pluck some pictures from the local newspaper