LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Jun 2010 12:17

VikB wrote:Junta, what are we cribbing about??? "ye na heen dushman ko barbad karr dega ....". Awesome. For a change the media is using the same terms and methods to talk about Indian equipment/forces that they use to hardsell underwear/SRK/etc. Let's keep our uberkool views aside and think of the masses. I am surely loving it.

Well said VikB. I believe that it is a tribute to Macaulay when we fall for Discovery Channel rhetoric like " Most planes are fast, but the F-18 is ballistic" and complain about similar stuff from India. However zero marks to the TV channel for using clips of all sorts of other helos.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 13 Jun 2010 18:36

^^ That and also showing the Mi 35 as the Apache the whole time. Not that people who dont have interest will know the difference. Otherwise I believe this is the kind of over the top rhetoric we need for new products we make. Only that will make people proud of our indigenous products. Of course a version in english for the modern city dweller would be nice so they can stop cribbing about some 'village bumpkin' (not my words, read some of the comments) presenting it.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 13 Jun 2010 18:41

marten sahab, no idea how it looks from afar but I guess the large continuous glass canopy should be quite distinct.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 14 Jun 2010 13:34

Marten wrote:Rahulda, let me get a few snaps to illustrate the problem. I really cannot figure at times (since one cannot always catch the crafts overhead). The magnificent canopy shines when there is bright sunshine and some of it glints off. In such conditions, one can also clearly see the "vyagramukh" on the side. When it gets a little dull or overcast, there is difficulty differentiating between the Dhruv and the LCH. Sounds ridiculous, right? Perhaps if there were a more pronounced difference in the shape, etc, if you get my drift. Else, it is like looking at a dark side cutout.

Have motivated a bunch of young folks from three "bakeries/shops" here who lounge on the terraces when they are free. All of them keep trying to get snaps of the craft but have only blurry pics to show. Plane spotters, I clearly am not.

something like this

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 14 Jun 2010 14:30

Very rough sketch of the profiles of the two helos.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 14 Jun 2010 22:34

Guys a noob question, the belly of the LCH is quiet big, with no passengers to carry and the same engine configuration as the Dhruv(so engine housing and other plumbin, electrical wiring may occupy the same amount of volume) what will this belly hold.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 15 Jun 2010 09:30

Copious amounts of fuel would be my guess... But there is a chance it could be used for carrying specialist equiments or something like that..

durvasa · Post by **durvasa** » 21 Jun 2010 14:13

Outside HAL Heli division on Old airport Road, I saw a new hoarding with LCH (Most probably as I was driving in morning traffic but what else can it be? Apache

) inscribed in devnagari with Janamejaya, Great grandson of Arjun and grandson of Abhimanyu.

Not sure if Janamejaya used as an adjective (?) or is the chosen name of LCH

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 21 Jun 2010 16:15

durvasa wrote:Outside HAL Heli division on Old airport Road, I saw a new hoarding with LCH (Most probably as I was driving in morning traffic but what else can it be? Apache ) inscribed in devnagari with Janamejaya, Great grandson of Arjun and grandson of Abhimanyu.

Not sure if Janamejaya used as an adjective (?) or is the chosen name of LCH

What is the symbolic meaning of Janamejaya wrto attack helicopter?
LCH should be named Tiger Helicopter,at least it has some meaning for it

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Jun 2010 16:19

Invincible since the time of birth itself!!

Good name -- much more powerful and deep than simple catty names...

durvasa · Post by **durvasa** » 21 Jun 2010 19:31

saw it once again on my way back. Its Janamejaya or Janamajeya for our baby. Its even translated as "born Tough" on the hoarding though "born invincible" would have been more accurate as sanku says. Someone pls confirm if Abhimanyu son was also called Dhruv ; it would fit so beautifully!!

Welcome Janamejaya

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 21 Jun 2010 19:53

durvasa wrote:. Someone pls confirm if Abhimanyu had a son named dhruv ; it would fit so beautifully!!

[OT Alert]

Bad luck. Abhimanyu's son is Parikshit, not Dhruv

Janamejaya, even though is a prominent name mythologically, is not a nice sounding name for an attack helicopter.

If I was asked to give it a mythological name , I would go for 'Meghanadh', in the name of Ravana's son. He is known for his exceptional fighting skills by hiding in the clouds and hence the name meghanadh.
[/OT Alert]

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Jun 2010 19:55

No Meghnad means Megh + Nad, one who roars like the clouds...

Nice name too... but Janmejaya is a fantastic character, he conducts the Snake end ritual (to destroy Takshak) and carries out 2 (3?) Ashwamedhs.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 21 Jun 2010 21:29

One heli was doing chakkar until few minutes back, should be LCH. I liked the rotor blade sound too since it was quite light unlike ALH

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 22 Jun 2010 16:36

marten sir, i think it'll be, logistically speaking, easier to send them out in batches....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Jun 2010 19:24

Marten wrote:Wonder if a set of deliveries is due. Have a question that I will take to the newbie thread if inappropriate here: Do we know if deliveries to the end user are in small batches or in single numbers as each is built and tested?

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 29#p552129

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 22 Jun 2010 23:35

AoA. Weaponised Dhruv trials at Nasik:

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/ex ... dhruv.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2010 15:15

AoA. was just about to post it. next stop mistral test fire?

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 23 Jun 2010 15:59

Excellent news. Nice short videos.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 25 Jun 2010 11:25

The second video shows rockets, right? Which are the rocket pods used in WSI Dhruv?

vivekmehta · Post by **vivekmehta** » 25 Jun 2010 15:22

durvasa wrote:saw it once again on my way back. Its Janamejaya or Janamajeya for our baby. Its even translated as "born Tough" on the hoarding though "born invincible" would have been more accurate as sanku says. Someone pls confirm if Abhimanyu son was also called Dhruv ; it would fit so beautifully!!

Welcome Janamejaya

Janamejaya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janamejaya

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 25 Jun 2010 21:02

Janamejaya is the person who has done Surpayagam also. May be mass killing of the Snakes is the mission of the new Janamejaya. But somehow I feel this name is too big and will not be given. Hope fully something small and cute.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 25 Jun 2010 21:34

^^sir, not small and cute but small and deadly, as befitting the LCH...

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 29 Jun 2010 17:50

I read the news that IAF or Army is placing orders for Attack Helicopter to Russia and US? Why is that required when LCH looks better than either of them!!

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 29 Jun 2010 18:12

karthik wrote:I read the news that IAF or Army is placing orders for Attack Helicopter to Russia and US? Why is that required when LCH looks better than either of them!!

Those might be different class of helicopters. Remember, LCH is "Light" Combat Helicopter, whereas the army and IAF also need heavier ones to fulfill different roles.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 29 Jun 2010 18:16

^^
Each helicopter design is a trade off. While lch should not have any competition in high altitude performance, it may be less armoured than some other heavy attack helicopters. So, while lch will find its role in the mountain region, the other heavy attack helicopter will be more useful in plains.

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 29 Jun 2010 20:09

The article states that Eurocopter and Agusta pulled out because they dont full fill the criteria which includes "high altitude landing!" It does not look like its only for low altitude duties! This makes the whole LCH thing seem meaningless if an heavier copter can take its place, although unlikely!

Agusta, on the other hand, seems to have pulled out at the last minute after it assessed that the Mangusta would not be able to fulfill the requirements of the IAF field trials, which include hard landings in high-altitude areas.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=13079

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 29 Jun 2010 20:51

^^
Every force would want some level of flexibility from its equipment. Can IA be sure that such situations can never arise which would require these helicopters in high altitude region? Similarly, could LCH be developed considering solely high altitude performance and neglecting the low altitude requirements? Therefore, IMHO, while IA would chose the helicopter mainly considering its low alt requirement, it would still expect the helicopter to have some level of high alt performance.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jun 2010 21:22

Gaur wrote:^^
Each helicopter design is a trade off. While lch should not have any competition in high altitude performance, it may be less armoured than some other heavy attack helicopters. So, while lch will find its role in the mountain region, the other heavy attack helicopter will be more useful in plains.

The LCH is to emerge in a leaner avatar.

Some over designed items are being redesigned and lightened. Undercarriage for one.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 29 Jun 2010 21:48

>> The LCH is to emerge in a leaner avatar.

Leaner in the sense of size or weight ?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 29 Jun 2010 22:15

chetak wrote:
Gaur wrote:^^
Each helicopter design is a trade off. While lch should not have any competition in high altitude performance, it may be less armoured than some other heavy attack helicopters. So, while lch will find its role in the mountain region, the other heavy attack helicopter will be more useful in plains.
The LCH is to emerge in a leaner avatar.

Some over designed items are being redesigned and lightened. Undercarriage for one.

If that's the case why not provide "Skids" for IAF Squadrons which are destined for high altitude missions. Other version for plains should have usual "wheels". That will at least solve the weight problem to much extent.

That way IAF will save time and money as "wheel" configuration does not provide any significant advantages since in LCH they are not retractable.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jun 2010 22:19

>> If that's the case why not provide "Skids" for IAF Squadrons which are destined for high altitude missions.

it's in the high alt's that wheels are 'absolutely' essential since they allow rolling take-off's. if it is really useless as you claim would it be there in the first place ?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 29 Jun 2010 22:33

Rahul M wrote:>> If that's the case why not provide "Skids" for IAF Squadrons which are destined for high altitude missions.

it's in the high alt's that wheels are 'absolutely' essential since they allow rolling take-off's. if it is really useless as you claim would it be there in the first place ?

you can be right but don't we use Cheetah in the same theater? if they are such 'absolutely' essential why IAF ALHs have skids instead of wheels? They can easily order one as HAL also produces its wheeled variant.

Also, do we have such long landing strips to allow rolling takeoffs at such high altitudes (i.e. Siachin).

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 29 Jun 2010 22:37

http://www.acheraviation.com/?m=3&s=2&idkey=551

a very good article over Skid Vs Wheel configuration.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jun 2010 22:47

Kanson wrote:>> The LCH is to emerge in a leaner avatar.

Leaner in the sense of size or weight ?

weight

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 29 Jun 2010 22:52

how much are they shaving ?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 29 Jun 2010 23:09

450 KG in Phases!! 50 first, 150 next and then 250! which will still make it 50 kg heavier then the design goal of 5 tons!

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 30 Jun 2010 02:08

Craig Alpert wrote:...which will still make it 50 kg heavier then the design goal of 5 tons!

1% overweight!?

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 30 Jun 2010 04:07

Shalav wrote:
Craig Alpert wrote:...which will still make it 50 kg heavier then the design goal of 5 tons!
1% overweight!?

Well thats aviation for you, weight matters a lot! 50kgs is like one pilot albeit a 15 year old girl pilot!

Anyone know what is the armor in helicopter, Kevlar back panels behind metal like in armored cars?

Also how much better can the Apache really be compared to the LCH! I dont think the 1980s Helio is going to be better than the LCH. LCH seems to be in the same size category as Apache if not weight! May be a communication gap between army and drdo to be blamed?

Just when you think we are getting self-reliant in a field army goes and order a million foreign ones!!

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 30 Jun 2010 04:20

Roll all you want Pal, I didn't come with the ASR's!!! GO ASK THE IAF!