LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 30 Jun 2010 18:05

chetak wrote:
Kanson wrote:>> The LCH is to emerge in a leaner avatar.

Leaner in the sense of size or weight ?
weight

Oh thanks sir.

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 30 Jun 2010 18:39

do we have a radar for the LCH ???????
if yes we do not need the Mi28 and AH64

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2010 20:24

radar is only useful for a radar guided atgm - which we dont have.
its a cold war soln to a cold war problem - 1000s of tanks running around shooting at anything.

IIR and laser targeting will cover most of todays situations - except in really blind weather , where the tanks thermals will also pack up likewise.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 Jul 2010 02:32

HAL confronts Snecma in light helicopter project

The Light Utility Helicopter (LuH), which Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is designing for the Indian military, has encountered turbulence even before leaving the drawing board. French engine-maker Turbomeca, whose vaunted Shakti engine was to power the LuH, is demanding what Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources term “extortionist prices” for integrating the Shakti with the LuH.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 01 Jul 2010 13:33

Can Helina be used in a Weaponised Dhruv?

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 01 Jul 2010 14:15

ashthor wrote:Can Helina be used in a Weaponised Dhruv?

yes can be used , Helina mostly will be tested on the Weaponised Dhruv before it is integrated in to LCH

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 01 Jul 2010 14:40

so effectively a weaponised dhruv can be used in a tank buster role from the mountains to the deserts along with the LCH

Are the army or the air force planning to use dhruv with helina or will it only be limited to LCH?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Jul 2010 16:23

ashthor wrote:tank buster role from the mountains

Tank? Mountains?

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 01 Jul 2010 16:44

From Leh to Thar

Dhanush · Post by **Dhanush** » 02 Jul 2010 00:20

VinodTK wrote:HAL confronts Snecma in light helicopter project

The Light Utility Helicopter (LuH), which Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is designing for the Indian military, has encountered turbulence even before leaving the drawing board. French engine-maker Turbomeca, whose vaunted Shakti engine was to power the LuH, is demanding what Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources term “extortionist prices” for integrating the Shakti with the LuH.

This was only expected, considering the experiences we made with Scorpene deal, Mirage upgrade deal and also our over dependance on TM engine. They had a tight grip over our golies and they have squeezed it now. I sense the French are slowly becoming extremely greedy and are trying to kill the golden duck, which is long lasting business.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 02 Jul 2010 00:27

Do they have some patented technology being used in shakti engine?
Whats the significance of a JV if IP royalty isnt predecided ?

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 02 Jul 2010 00:29

This sort of arm twisting will keep happening unless we start makeing our own turbines. It may sound weird but countries like Singapore or Brazil has a good pool of scientists that can collaborate well, if we had an memorandum with them we would have come farther on the kaveri by now, they also can not arm twist us! May be if we look beyond the west we can find some good relations on mutual exchange!

Tats · Post by **Tats** » 02 Jul 2010 01:11

On the weight of the LCH. The LCH is currently 550 kgs over weight. Armor-plating/Bullet proofing of the canopy is still not done (check out the photo of the canopy-notice the thickness of the glass) and this when done, would substantially increase the weight of the LCH.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 731857.JPG

Anyone on the know, how this weight problem is being tackled?

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 02 Jul 2010 02:08

Craig,

I'm

on your "still 50 kg" over weight comment. Not the present ~500 kg.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 02 Jul 2010 03:05

Shalav sir,

it's 550 KG overweight Currently! HAL told the IAF that after all the weight reductions in planned phases the total weight would be around 50050 KG which is STILL 50 KG overweight according to IAF as their Design objective is 5Tons (5000 KG).. This my friend is IAF ASR (not mine, and to give IAF the benefit of the doubt, they are okay with the 50 KG extra weight!)

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 07 Jul 2010 12:17

On the weight of the LCH. The LCH is currently 550 kgs over weight. Armor-plating/Bullet proofing of the canopy is still not done (check out the photo of the canopy-notice the thickness of the glass) and this when done, would substantially increase the weight of the LCH.

I think figure of 550Kg includes all armour/bullet proof plating... There is no point is saying 550 kg overweight with so and so still pending...

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 07 Jul 2010 12:24

nrshah wrote:
On the weight of the LCH. The LCH is currently 550 kgs over weight. Armor-plating/Bullet proofing of the canopy is still not done (check out the photo of the canopy-notice the thickness of the glass) and this when done, would substantially increase the weight of the LCH.
I think figure of 550Kg includes all armour/bullet proof plating... There is no point is saying 550 kg overweight with so and so still pending...

True , the second prototype will be a weaponized version and 3rd one will be for user trials so this weight estimate must include bullet proofing and armour.

vic · Post by **vic** » 07 Jul 2010 12:57

I say buy 100 LCH for plains and desert warfare. Then in the meanwhile reduce the weight, increase engine power plus improve rotors/bearings for anther 100 for high Altitude.Having said this for high altitude we need something like CAT (twin engine trainer proposed by HAL) as a Helo will never cut it.

Lastly I am so disappointed that HAL cannot "integrate" a JV developed engine with gearbox forget about designing engines or gearboxes. This says miles about HAL technology absorbtion in Dhruv programme.

marimuthu · Post by **marimuthu** » 07 Jul 2010 19:30

LCH cockpit from Tarmak Looks simple and nice.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 07 Jul 2010 21:22

nukavarapu wrote:Is this a Weoponized LCH doing a tilt/spin?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/photo/6135483.cms
Interesting

we can't say that its doing tilt/spin just by looking at the photo.
It may be shot while the chopper flying over head.

nits · Post by **nits** » 07 Jul 2010 22:36

LCH doing Air Ramp walk for our dear RM as he missed its inaugural function

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

Edit - Corrected Typo

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Jul 2010 23:25

^^ I think you probably mean LCH!

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 08 Jul 2010 00:08

Cant they add anti glare displays like in some laptops? This one seems to have too much reflection on it for comfort!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jul 2010 00:18

that's a little difficult to judge correctly from a photograph.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 16 Jul 2010 11:03

karthik wrote:Cant they add anti glare displays like in some laptops? This one seems to have too much reflection on it for comfort!

Sir the glare is due to the oblique angle in which the image was photographed... Don't think it will be a problem when viewed in the proper angle...

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 16 Jul 2010 11:15

nits wrote:LCH doing Air Ramp walk for our dear RM as he missed its inaugural function

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

Good pics, using 3 one as wallpaper and thanks for the links

nits · Post by **nits** » 22 Jul 2010 06:37

nits · Post by **nits** » 22 Jul 2010 06:39

one of area where LCH lack is speed...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jul 2010 06:43

a better top speed could be useful in escaping from fighters and aam armed gunships...as also improving the odds against AA fire/manpad shooters.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 22 Jul 2010 06:52

Singha wrote:a better top speed could be useful in escaping from fighters and aam armed gunships...as also improving the odds against AA fire/manpad shooters.

saar agree that the top speed would be imp in matters that you have mentioned above but given the areas where we will see the LCH deployed I wonder how much of role top speed will play as against ability to carry a decent payload at altitude and being able to manouvere and target potential threats...?

Now I am no aero injuneer but looking at LCH's powerplant, its weight figures, the basic design itself IMVHO its top speed will be > 275km/hr?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jul 2010 08:35

Singha wrote:a better top speed could be useful in escaping from fighters and aam armed gunships...as also improving the odds against AA fire/manpad shooters.

Which fighter would be defeated by a helo with a top speed of even 400 kmph? Only Spitfire maybe.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jul 2010 09:05

what I meant was when its time to hightail it back to a friendly akash/spyder bubble, its better to run faster.

20 extra secs might mean the diff between life and death.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 26 Jul 2010 14:34

Actually the LCH has flown above 300kmph post inaugural. Its speed should be around 300kmph once it enters service. HAL is most likely playing safe by limiting its speed to 275 kmph.

Abhibhushan · Post by **Abhibhushan** » 26 Jul 2010 23:02

Shiv Said

Which fighter would be defeated by a helo with a top speed of even 400 kmph? Only Spitfire maybe.

The Spitfire was actually quite fast! It coud reach close to Mach 1 in a dive.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Jul 2010 23:22

smpratik wrote:Actually the LCH has flown above 300kmph post inaugural. Its speed should be around 300kmph once it enters service. HAL is most likely playing safe by limiting its speed to 275 kmph.

the LCH info-board is almost a copy-paste of the dhruv info-board.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 27 Jul 2010 18:50

Rahul M wrote: the LCH info-board is almost a copy-paste of the dhruv info-board.

Thats right, many of the said specifications given to us are not accurate.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Jul 2010 23:36

smpratik wrote:Actually the LCH has flown above 300kmph post inaugural. Its speed should be around 300kmph once it enters service. HAL is most likely playing safe by limiting its speed to 275 kmph.

Actually smpratik ji, not wanting to sound ornery but
the LCH has not done more than 250-260 kmph to date.

They will eventually get there but it's some ways off yet.

They are not going to throw about a prototype without adequate and cautious testing.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 29 Jul 2010 17:48

chetak wrote:Actually smpratik ji, not wanting to sound ornery but
the LCH has not done more than 250-260 kmph to date.

They will eventually get there but it's some ways off yet.

They are not going to throw about a prototype without adequate and cautious testing.

I have a source working on the project, he says that it went above 300kmph once or twice atleast.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 29 Jul 2010 18:19

Pratik, I suggest you cross check. If correct, it would be the fastest opening of the flight envelope in aviation history and you broke the stunning news first! The LCH team could look down and frown upon the LCA team who are taking ages to fully open its flight envelope.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jul 2010 21:09

smpratik wrote:
I have a source working on the project, he says that it went above 300kmph once or twice atleast.

smpratik ji,

And I suppose you think that I spoke to the chowkidar?