Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Aug 2010 18:27

Carl_T wrote:
brihaspati wrote:Actually there are quite a number of refs for beef eating in the earlier texts. However, post Vedas, the refs dwindle. Maybe we should consider the possibility that things like anthrax visited India once. Except milk, no other part of the cow is safe - not even when cooked.
If the reason is anthrax, abstinence would not be limited to beef but to meat of other animals like buffalos and goats as well. Now anthrax could be part of the reason for abstinence from meat in general, but it would not specifically single out the cow.

Regarding the utilitarian explanation, should it not apply to the buffalo as well?

Actually, I don't think the refs "encourage" eating up buffaloes either! Just a lack of explicit "ban" does not necessarily mean encouragement.

Moreover the cow refs could be form a period where the culture was more concentrated in the drier open spaces of GV. Buffaloes need more humid, muddy and watery environs. They are more comfortable and found in the lower delta regions. Indeed buffaloes were used as rides by certain groups in Bengal. The Kaivartas or now commonly associated as originally a fishing community [need not be the only profession or association in reality] are supposed to have developed a buffalo riding army that once removed the Palas from power in northern Bengal temporrarily.

So buffaloes could also have been associated with communities with which the Vedic of the text period were in competition with.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 30 Aug 2010 12:37

ramana wrote:Plug for Sanskrit Camp in Bay Area;

Unique opportunity to learn Samskritam in a fun-filled camp!
...

Did you know?

- bhArata means?

- Bha - "light or resplendence"

- rat – “ delighting in”

- ataH "resplendence with knowledge"

- Bharatha is source of knowledge.
May be better chance to participate in the thread1

Bha भा= Light or resplendence aka knowledge
rat रत = totally immersed in

= (The place where people) are totally immersed in pursuit of knowledge.

(Other meaning भा = वेद = Knowledge, रत = Immersed. Immersed in pursuit of वेद)

Also

ऋषभो मरुदेव्याश्च ऋषभात भरतो भवेत्
भरताद भारतं वर्षं, भरतात सुमतिस्त्वभूत्
Rishabha was born to Marudevi, Bharata was born to Rishabh,
Bharatvarsha (India) arose from Bharata, and Sumati arose from Bharata
—Vishnu Purana (2,1,31)
ततश्च भारतं वर्षमेतल्लोकेषुगीयते
भरताय यत: पित्रा दत्तं प्रतिष्ठिता वनम (विष्णु पुराण, २,१,३२)
This country is known as Bharatavarsha since the times the father entrusted the kingdom to the son Bharata and he himself went to the forest for ascetic practices
—Vishnu Purana (2,1,32)

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 30 Aug 2010 13:24

Atri Ji, Murugan Ji, Mauli Ji, Brihaspaji Ji, Ramanna Ji, Carl_T Ji, Acharya Ji, Sorry for being late to respond, had some personnel work to finish.Many thanks for the encouragement and pointer's.Will write another article out of total 5 in the near future this time quoting from the 'Puranas' also.

P.S- I am feeling BRF to be my second home now.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 Aug 2010 13:52

Folks,

While growing up in the NCERT syllabus we were able to read both Ramayana and Mahabharata in 7 th and 8 th class respectively. Which gave us a grounding in the epics.

But I have lern't recently that it is no longer the case. The result is that the children today know more about homer and less about Ramayana and Mahabharata.

The children growing up today are completely ignorant of these epics.

Is this a result of the secular agenda or not I don't wish to speculate. But I can say that it is a great loss to the future of the nation.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Aug 2010 15:19

someone please let me know, what is the source of the saying 'veer bhogya vasundhara' ??
it is also used as a motto by certain IA regiments, RajRif for example.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 31 Aug 2010 15:33

^'The world is for the brave'.Source sorry I don't know sir.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 Aug 2010 15:44

Manish i thought it was, "The brave shall in herit the earth". Don't know the originn as well.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Aug 2010 15:50

I didn't ask for a translation !

and no I don't think it is a translation of an english saying, I've come across it before that era.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 Aug 2010 15:53

Just attempting to be helpful without actully helping

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 31 Aug 2010 19:16

Hmmm...people need to read up on the Geeta in the original again and look for the lines encouraging Arjuna as uttered by Krishna.

Sorry - couldn't help but being mischievous! Actually many of the mottos of our security and defense establishment are taken directly from the Geeta. Where have all the Geeta lovers gone...!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Aug 2010 19:31

thank you !
I thought it would be from the gita. could I have the verse please ?

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 31 Aug 2010 20:07

Me Too, Brihaspati Ji, I remember something similar in ch. 2 verse 37 but not same.Of course I stand corrected....

naren · Post by **naren** » 01 Sep 2010 05:53

Pratyush wrote:Manish i thought it was, "The brave shall in herit the earth". Don't know the originn as well.

May be rip off of JC's "meek shall inherit the earth" ?

*added *

provides some context

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 01 Sep 2010 06:38

Rahul M wrote:thank you !
I thought it would be from the gita. could I have the verse please ?

The closest is हतो वा प्राप्यसि स्वर्गं, जित्वा वा भोक्ष्यसे महिम.. तस्मात उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चय.. If you die, you go to heaven, if you win, you inherit/enjoy the earth.. So get up and fight, Oh Arjuna.

The verb "Bhog" has no perfect synonym in English. The verbs like "Enjoy" are very incomplete to describe the meaning intended by "Bhog" since it originates in Karma-Siddhanta.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 01 Sep 2010 07:17

Where have all the Geeta lovers gone...!

Reading and practicing this Christian Gita.

http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-Acc ... 1893163113

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 01 Sep 2010 07:28

Talking about Gita, how many of you have read this commentary on Gita?

http://www.bvbpune.org/contents1.html

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 01 Sep 2010 15:53

Pratyush wrote:Manish i thought it was, "The brave shall in herit the earth". Don't know the originn as well.

Probably vedic

वीर भोग्या वसुंधरा

(Also Rajput Rifles Motto)

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 01 Sep 2010 16:24

origins of great sanskrit mottos

this is great
Jayema Sam Yudhi Sprdhah (INS Vikrant)
Meaning: I conquer all those who fight against me
Source: Rig Veda (Mandala 1, Sutra 8, Mantra 3)
Verse:
Indra tvotasa Aa vayam vajram ghana dadhimahi
Jayema sam yudhi sprdhah

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 02 Sep 2010 09:31

जय श्री कृष्ण

Today is Birth Anniversary of Lord, Sri Krishna Parmatma!

Lord of epic, lord of many texts, kathas, raasleela, stotras and shloks! Which lord is so rich?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Sep 2010 10:18

Anybody knows th origins of
Sant Mat
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the Sant Mat origins in the 13th century. For contemporary movements claiming a Sant Mat lineage, see Contemporary Sant Mat movements.
Sant Mat (Hindi: संत मत) was a loosely associated group of teachers that became prominent in the northern part of the Indian sub-continent from about the 13th century. Theologically, their teachings are distinguished by an inward, loving devotion to a divine principle, and socially by an egalitarianism opposed to the qualitative distinctions of the Hindu caste system, and to those between Hindus and Muslims.[1]
The sant lineage can be divided into two main groups: The northern group of Sants from the provinces of the Punjab, (Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh), who expressed themselves mainly in vernacular Hindi, and the southern group, whose language is archaic Marathi, represented by Namdev and other Sants of Maharashtra.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sant_Mat

What I found was that Robert John "Mutt" Lange is a follower of this path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_Lange

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Sep 2010 07:17

Anyone read this and can comment on it?

Chamatkara Chandrika:

Gaudiya Vedanta, «A Moonbeam of Complete Astonishment»
ISBN: 8186737332 | 2010-07-12 | 370 pages |

“
This incomparable narrative poem has been painted with the soft brush of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura’s supremely sweet and natural prema-bhakti and the color of the all enchanting nectar of rasa. This literary composition consists of four astonishing and delightfully charming stories of the mischievous meetings of the Divine Couple, Sri Radha-Krsna. It is presented for rasika and bhavuka readers, as well as sadhakas who desire to taste vraja-rasa.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Sep 2010 20:21

Concept of Hanuman. The author traces the evolution and concept of Hanuman over three periods - Valimiki days, Kamban (tamil poet) days & Vijyanagaram days.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 12 Sep 2010 01:01

"When the time comes that Man no longer wishes to remain a
child, but wants to grow up and become an adult, then he must
understand and neither deceive himself nor others. Then he will
see that God is to be found not in any particular form, but in all
forms, not in any particular place, but everywhere, not through
any single vehicle, faith, cult, religion, building, or man, but in the
Infinite.

You will never find God anywhere else but in those conditions,
the rest is merely your idea of God, your mental picture. These
are purely intellectual things, they are not God or Reality.

So if man wishes to awaken, if he wants to understand himself,
he must face the fact that the real avenue to contact with God is
not outside himself but within directly Inside. He 'must find his
own way to God through and within himself. That is, if he seeks
God, there is no other way, but if he is looking for ideas, concepts,
or mental images, then he can take what orthodox religions and
cults offer him. And because most people have been content to
let others do their thinking and their questing for them they have
been satisfied with those conditions."

Paul Brunton in his book titled " Inner Reality".

manju · Post by **manju** » 12 Sep 2010 05:18

Usually before going to bed I try to tell some stories or read from Indian scriptures (kids version) to my daughter.... Last week My five+ yr daughter said one night before going to bed "I dont like to die"

I tried to explain what happens after death.. Atman does not die.. but the body dies, yadda yadda...... i think she got idea that she will be born again either as a worm, human, etc,et based on her actions... therefore if she would like to be born to us again she has be a nice girl (listen to parents, eat well, study well, help other, ityadi)..

Now, if she misbehaves we tell her that we will pray that she be not born to us in her next life... and this is often motivates her to do the right thing (that is what we want!)..

Would apprecite inputs or experiences dealing with kids about issues of death and other serious stuff...

manju · Post by **manju** » 12 Sep 2010 05:20

I read the Vachana Bhaaratha in Kannada. I enjoyed reading it.

I would encourage fold to watch the Mahabharata Serial (of 90s).. I appreciated it better when I saw it second time (in my early thirtees) than when I was a teen.. I hope to see it as often as possible in future.. I was glued to the video... Fortunately, at that time I had no job (scary as I was on H-1).. but made good use of the time by watching the TV serial Mahabharata (available as cd/cassette)

Now I am motivated to read Sri Bhyrappa's Parva! Thanks Putnanja, etc...

manju · Post by **manju** » 12 Sep 2010 05:55

Was recently in Art of LIving class learning Pranayama and Kriya. The instructor mentioned that among several things "Sat Sanga" (company of religious minded people) is key for progress in life..

This dhaaga on BR forum, I guess, would be a good substitue for those of us who are not lucky to have the luxury of having physicial company "sat sagh"!

Today being Ganesha Chaturthi (western Hemisphere).. I spent 3 hrs catching up with this dhaga and feel very en...lightened spiritiually!! Physically, I may have gained some weight becuase of nice kadubu, sweet dishes..

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 14 Sep 2010 10:07

any gurulog knows about trisuparna, why and when it is recited and the meanings?

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 14 Sep 2010 10:08

I have found this interesting

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 14 Sep 2010 10:55

Murugan wrote:any gurulog knows about trisuparna, why and when it is recited and the meanings?

Sung typically before meals.. suparna is eagle.. Three eagles (trisuparna) refers to garuda's act of delivering "Amruta" to Devas. It is set of 3 Richas from Rigveda and Mahanarayanopnishad.

First Anuvaak addressed in praise of "Soma". They ask for "Brahman", for "Amrita" and for "Brahman that is Amrita". The word used for "Amrit" is Madhu. Also deals with sweetness along with truth that is invoked while singing this first richa.

Second Anuvaak refers to Medh (Sacrifice as in Ashwamedha, Bali). Bali here refers to renunciation of "ownership" over the food. Then Savitar is invoked and later Vishwadeva is invoked and the singers ask for happiness (cool breeze, plentiful and fresh water supplies, abundance of medicinal plants, sweet and blissful nights, sweet and blissful days, sweet and blissful grain of sand (asking for happiness all over). The famous Madhumati sukta falls in this anuvaak of trisuparna.

IN third anuvak, again Soma is invoked. here yagna (efforts, in general terms) is said to be the source of both brahman and madhu (truth and happiness) and is gained by "Rishis". Then Surya is invoked and praised as "Hamsa"..

The fourth anuvak is far more beautiful.. They explain who the "rishis" are... Rishi is one, they say, who has understood the crux of the word "Yagna". Rishi's "aatman" is the Yajmaan (host) of the yagna. his body is fuel which burns, his faith is his wife, chest is "Yagna-kunda". The body hair are "Darbha (grass)", Shikhaa is the Vedas, and dissipative tendencies in the heart (mind) are the sacrificial animal. Vaacha (speech) is the "Hotaa"; Praan are Udgaata (one who deals with musical aspects of Saamagaayana); Mind is Brahmaa etc.

Why sing this before meals? to imbibe in minds of eater that "meals" are also a "Yagna-Karma" and should be treated as one. And this yagna-karma should be meticulously followed very religiously because then Surya and other gods become happy and convert our food into "Soma" which makes us knowledgeable, happy and healthy.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 14 Sep 2010 15:30

^^
Atriji

Delightedly enlightened

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 29 Sep 2010 09:31

VimlaNanda: Suppose you have an ancestor (Pitri) who has been reborn as horse who draws a carriage. Because you still posses some of his genes and chromosomes his consciousness in his new form is going to affect you.

Svoboda: How?

VimlaNanda: while he was living his ahamkara identified with his entire body . Only part of that body that remains after his death is that body’s pattern of genes and chromosomes, a portion of which resides in you. Because everything that has ever happened in the cosmos has left its mark there, his ‘mark’ remains on those genes and chromosomes for as long as the pattern remains relatively intact. As long as his ‘mark’ there his awareness will continue to resonate, to some extent, with those genes and chromosomes – which means that his awareness will be able to influence your awareness via the genetic material that has bequeathed you.

Svoboda: Oh my God! How long will that influence last?

VimlaNanda: Vedic traditions speaks of seven generations

Svoboda: Is that some sort of numerological number?

VimlaNanda: Not at all. Don’t you remember how many times an ordinary horse must be crossed with a thoroughbred before its progeny can be registered in the thoroughbred stud book?.

Svoboda: The eighth cross beomes a thoroughbred.

VimlaNanda: Which means that the ordinary bloodline becomes effaced after----

Svoboda: Seven generations! Oh my God! So the people in the Bible were not just talking through their hats when they spoke of a sin being visited on their heads, and on their children’s heads, ‘up to the seventh generations’.
VimlaNanda: Not at all. Now, if your ancestor was some sort of a saint the influence of his awareness on you might be fairly positive. Otherwise it will probably not help you much, and might prove greatly detrimental. What would be helpful for you is to break your ties with him in such a way that you help him out as well. To do this you perform a TARPANA ritual.

Excerpt from the boook titled “Aghora-III: The Law of Karma” by Robert E Svoboda, pp.135.

chandrasekhar.m · Post by **chandrasekhar.m** » 01 Oct 2010 16:34

To the gurus here,
For Indians, the Ramayana and the Mahabharatha are not myths, are they? They might be myths for the British or the Arabians, but why do we in India call them myths? A myth is something foreign, isnt it?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Oct 2010 02:56

chandrasekhar.m wrote:To the gurus here,
For Indians, the Ramayana and the Mahabharatha are not myths, are they? They might be myths for the British or the Arabians, but why do we in India call them myths? A myth is something foreign, isnt it?

Western interpretation, secular narration, marxist narration becomes - modern narration.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 06 Oct 2010 09:10

Question: So was the Kaurav dynasty a descendant of Puru or was it a descendant of Sudah's clan? I assumed it had been a descendant of the Puru clan, but was that not defeated comprehensively in the dasarajnya battle?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Oct 2010 09:58

Have just finished reading the translation of Ramayana by Ramesh Menon.

The author discribed a scene subsequent to the banishment of Sita but before the Ashwamedha Yagya. Where a brahman has lost his 15 year old son and he is threatnig to end his life along with the life of his wife if his son is not brought back.

When Rama summons all the Rishis and Aacharyas to enquire about the cause of death of the boy, he is informed, that the boy died because a sudra is in tapasya and his aim is to become the lord of three realms. This is a sin. It is this sin which has accrued to Ram and has resulted in the death of the boy.

If the boy is to be brought back to life then Rama must kill the sudra. Which he duly does.

It is my understanding that during the time period the Ramayana was composed the varna pranaly had not become rigid. Then why is the tapasya by a sudra to become the master of three relms considered a sin?

Also, since I have not read the Ramayana as composed by Valmiki. I am unable to establish the varicity of this instance. Could this be a an example of Psy ops.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 18 Oct 2010 14:41

Shambuka Vadha is very much a part of Sanskrit Valmiki Ramayana.

Three explanations

1. Take it for what it is worth: That with all goodness, Raam had few dark shades, one of which was varna-bias.
2. Agree with many scholars that not entire Ramayana was written by one man, but a series of composers known as Valmiki
3. State that the particular verse is later interpolation.

Ramayana and MBH are Smritis and not Shrutis, and hence were subjected to plenty of interpolations and changes as the time went by. Everybody who wanted to say something added that thing in their narrative of Ramayana and Mahabharat. Thus, these epics (especially MBH) grew this huge.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 18 Oct 2010 14:52

Atri wrote:Shambuka Vadha is very much a part of Sanskrit Valmiki Ramayana.

Three explanations

1. Take it for what it is worth: That with all goodness, Raam had few dark shades, one of which was varna-bias.
2. Agree with many scholars that not entire Ramayana was written by one man, but a series of composers known as Valmiki
3. State that the particular verse is later interpolation.

Ramayana and MBH are Smritis and not Shrutis, and hence were subjected to plenty of interpolations and changes as the time went by. Everybody who wanted to say something added that thing in their narrative of Ramayana and Mahabharat. Thus, these epics (especially MBH) grew this huge.

I have heard some other explanations too. Shambuka was actually a Rakshas who was trying to gain power( A path similar to Raavana). Rama was wary of this as he knew the terrible things world has to bear with Ravana. So he just nipped it in the bud.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 18 Oct 2010 15:03

Uttara Ramayana normally considered as not a regular Part of Ramayana.
The Tapas itself is not prohibited to any one. But Tapas for going to Heven is prohibited during that period for Sudras. Shambhuka was doing to Tapas for going to Heven. Rama though King can not bypass the rule and had to kill Shumbukha. It may be noted Rama even banished his much loved wife, sent his beloved Brother Lakshman out of ayodhya as a result of which Lakshmana gave away his life. Life of Rama in the end is a very hard and tragic. Further, Kings are framers of law. As such Rama had no power to decide what is custom,law and rule. He could only ompliment what is the rule/law. He could not change the rules.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 18 Oct 2010 15:12

rkirankr wrote:I have heard some other explanations too. Shambuka was actually a Rakshas who was trying to gain power( A path similar to Raavana). Rama was wary of this as he knew the terrible things world has to bear with Ravana. So he just nipped it in the bud.

May be.. Who knows.. We have to go by what info is available in Valmiki Ramayana because he was contemporary to Raam (in his account). And I do not recollect any such explanation given by Valmiki. We can have opinions and explanations of the actions taken by Raam in his "journey" (Aayana). But the actions described in RM and the immediate motives behind them are clearly mentioned in text.

I personally have no qualms in accepting Raama as a cunning politician as well as a good king (from PoV of mango abduls of his kingdom). If Uttara Kaandam is not a later interpolation, then this episode is a despicable one. Even more despicable are his deeds pertaining to Seeta and her Banishment. There is no way to know whether there was a huge "unrest" which could have potentially resulted in civil war. From what we read, his subjects were satisfied and happy.

Even before this, during Agni Pariksha episode, Raama did show the jealous streak in his personality. That is sometimes glossed over by describing it as the leela of getting the "real" seeta back from Agni.

We have to remember that Raama is worshipped as "Ideal King (Raaja Raam)", as Maryada Purushottam. We do not know what was the stature of that compaining Brahmin was. If I were a King and if eminent scientist like Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam comes to me with a complaint regarding a worker who is doing something which in APJ's mind isn't appropriate and he is willing to stake his reputation on it, I would have no qualms in "dealing" with that worker in appropriate manner to keep APJ in good spirits. Ideal king need not necessarily be the one who does good things always. They are mutually exclusive.

OTOH, if Uttara Kaandam is a later interpolation, then may be it was some Raama hater who added these instances to defame him.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Oct 2010 15:43

Atri,

In my part of the county, not very far from Ayodhya. A good poet composer and singer is called Vyas and compared to Vyas muni not Valmiki. So it seems to me that even though MHB may have been composed by more then one man. Ramayana may well have been the work of one man.

JMT.