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by arnab
08 May 2013 11:00
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)
Replies: 4994
Views: 243717

Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Look at the price of commodities today and compare them to 15 years ago. Over the last 15 years, global population has risen by over 1 billion and China embarked on a major construction spree. For e.g. demand for iron ore by China increased from around 70 mn tons in 2000 to 450 mn tons in 2008. May...
by arnab
07 May 2013 06:57
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Artillery Discussion Thread
Replies: 3883
Views: 442068

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

I think the best way to improve the "manufacturing and development and track record" of Indian ordnance factories is to keep buying phoren :)
by arnab
03 May 2013 11:26
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

^^^^ Your forgetting a sense of self righteousness: I'm always correct! Sanku ji slipped one of those in, strangely using tiny font. To wit: I have been proved right on my call during the Nuclear deal debate (123 and all that). Boss you just can't even make this up. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Yes one ...
by arnab
03 May 2013 11:15
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

I must confess RajitO, that having one more person having suffered this game, normally reserved by a few folks for me, gives me great satisfaction. Human failing I guess, but it is good to know that others have also felt your pain. :mrgreen: Other similarities include: ignorance, a sense of victimh...
by arnab
03 May 2013 09:14
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Still waiting for you to reproduce exactly what you say I said . Now that is a rather weak response :) But basically I was defining the term "adequate" for you (afterall it is a sort of a weasel word). You did say the following: What you consider as ...
by arnab
03 May 2013 06:08
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

My assertion? Or the one-track discourse going on in your own mind. OK RajitO ji, let us see what you have been saying (or inferring) You said: Yeah everyone is accountable and no one is accountable. How many people in any of these three verticals have been fired on the LCA program? The apologists ...
by arnab
02 May 2013 13:13
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

There seems to be this theme ('meme' :) ) propagated by some on most domestic product development threads, that it is only the 'service wallahs' who are honourable and have work ethics (tight and fair so to say) but whose noble intentions are constantly stymied by the bloody babus. This seems to clo...
by arnab
02 May 2013 11:43
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Sorry sir - your assertion that the IAF can deliver only when it has: sole responsibility; unfettered funding; and an R&D system only geared to respond its beck and call, you have to acquaint yourself with the harsh realities of working in a democratic environment. Is that supposed be a euphemi...
by arnab
02 May 2013 11:34
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Since with every successive post more blind alleys are being created let's be clear on what the original assertion was, and by whom (This should disabuse the silliness being spouted about IAF being kept away from the program management loop) What you consider as adequate IAF involvement/role and &q...
by arnab
02 May 2013 10:05
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

ADA would anyway be in charge, IAF would be in charge of ADA . No IAF has not wanted to take control of anything civvy, the forces neither want to or be seen as remotely trying to want to control anything that civvies have. I think that there is a fundamental disconnect between the first sentence a...
by arnab
02 May 2013 09:58
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

This is the forum equivalent of putting words in someone's mouth - who said anything about xyz being the only way to manage a program? There is a magical term oversight in your original highlighted quote -What is the bottomline about oversight? To hold regular meetings to show that oversight was do...
by arnab
02 May 2013 04:55
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Yeah everyone is accountable and no one is accountable. How many people in any of these three verticals have been fired on the LCA program? The apologists who keep bringing up the F-35 fiasco, and it is one, should check how many got fired there. So exemplary punishment is the only way to manage a ...
by arnab
01 May 2013 05:39
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

I think that it is important to hear what Air Cmde Muthana has to say on the subject: Higher Defense Management. A fundamental challenge has been the structure of the Indian higher defense management. Broadly speaking, there are three verticals within the Indian Ministry of Defense that steer this p...
by arnab
30 Apr 2013 12:34
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: LCA News and Discussions
Replies: 4264
Views: 148997

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Amazingly he says,"no aviators were part of the design team...",leading to situations where scientists were more interested in getting indigenous technologies integrated ,"at the expense of designing a maintainable and deployable platform".He alleges that the IAF,"the only ...
by arnab
29 Apr 2013 12:18
Forum: Mil-Tech Archive
Topic: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Replies: 4022
Views: 173290

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

This discussion is right up above the posts where you decided to come in and smart alec statements on others behalf before informing yourself of the basics . hmm.. what sort of basics might they be? anecdote based basics; statistics based basics; I judge them as correct arguments because they confo...
by arnab
29 Apr 2013 11:22
Forum: Mil-Tech Archive
Topic: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Replies: 4022
Views: 173290

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

^
Since the OSA-AKs were manufactured in Russia, it is presumably not possible to blame the OFBs, so I suggest we blame it on 'storage' :) Afterall we have heard 'non-statistical anecdotes' on how QC and storage are really to blame for malfunctioning russian products :)
by arnab
26 Apr 2013 10:47
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012
Replies: 4239
Views: 140655

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Just wondering if folks can enlighten us about the process regarding the JSF's induction in the USAF despite being a 'turkey' and still in the test phase and still maturing. What does it tell us about IAF's support for Tejas in contrast?
by arnab
19 Apr 2013 12:59
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

Sorry saar all this "one batch - shon batch" is your interpretation. The defence minister has claimed that the supplied CKD kits were faulty. The imported invars did not work in 2001 either and were shipped back. The rest of your stuff how do we put it? unverifiable - so what's new? Again...
by arnab
19 Apr 2013 12:52
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

You are again, to put it mildly, misrepresenting . In 2006, assembly of one batch of Invars was faulty. Which is not the same as missile not working. The rest of your post is of similar stand of Dissimulation. So yes, IAs stance is shown by its actions, and yes, you are not being truthful about it....
by arnab
19 Apr 2013 12:44
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

incidentally, if missile firing capability was not demonstrated by Arjun, wouldn't the army have gone to town regarding the failure of Arjun in that respect in the comparitive trials? No it would not. Because IA despite the attempts of many people to run it down, has a very different agenda that th...
by arnab
19 Apr 2013 12:32
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

So the Chief Semantics Officer is on the prowl again :) "superior in some respects" is > "equal in other respects". btw these were pointed out by the parliamentary committee. IA said comparing the two is like comparing a Mercedes to a Maruti. Of course, given that Sanjay Gandhi c...
by arnab
18 Apr 2013 10:16
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

I would request you to refer the post by @rohitvats where the '800' Arjuns are originally postulated . In general you can go through the discussion of past ten pages. I did. All postulations aside - Arjun numbers (or lack of them) were predicated by a rise in T-90 numbers. Do tell me if the T-90s c...
by arnab
18 Apr 2013 10:04
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

- 800 Arjuns(Mk1 and Mk2) are not in the scheme of things. This is the question isn't it? Why aren't they in the scheme of things? This is a circular argument, wher IA decides that they will not induct more than 240 odd Arjuns (infact they reduce the number of Arjuns than initially indented for) an...
by arnab
12 Apr 2013 04:37
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

Looks like bold fonts, caps and hyperbole are a being provided as a response to the detailed analysis of Anujan :) What's with: "horrendously under equipped" "1000000000000 years" and "get out of the way and let the army handle it", along with the oft repeated BS that I...
by arnab
11 Apr 2013 05:44
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

Now that the 'shooting' and 'protection' abilities of the Arjun vis a vis T-90 have been established, we are left with the 'scooting' abilities of T-90 in urban areas! Unless the T-90 can outrun / out-manoeuvre an ATGM / RPG, it will be deficient to Arjun in such scenarios as well. Remember the Batt...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 12:31
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

I guess the only option then if we dont take IA word is to hire an International Expert who can verify the claims of IA on tanks and put it to test , I agree IA can say what it likes and there is no reason why we should take their word for what it is , even DRDO hired Israel expert who concluded Ar...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 12:17
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

^ Considering the IA is being held culpable in the non-induction of Arjun, I find it difficult to accede to the logic that if the IA says that the T-90 is good, it should be the last word on the topic.(it may well be 'good' compared to what is around in the neighbourhood, but the Arjun is a better t...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 11:42
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

No the bridge is a secondary issue right now. The primary issue in holding up development of Arjun is its simple unavailability at the right time. If enough Arjun's were available, looking at bridges actively made sense. Right now its cart before the horse. Any quote from an IA officer on this spec...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 11:21
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

The primary issue in holding up development of Arjun is its simple unavailability at the right time. If enough Arjun's were available, looking at bridges actively made sense. Right now its cart before the horse. ^ Step 1: Don't place an order. Step 2: Claim the system is not in service. Step 3: Tur...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 10:12
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

It will not suffice to parade a system. 'Requirement' has to be fulfilled in quantity also, as would be required during war. As i said, we have discussed this before. Let me leave it at that. This is getting beyond ridiculous :) Given that T-90's TI or missiles did not work during parakram, should ...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 09:15
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

Arjun is superior to T-90 based on comparative trials: When did IA say it? India won ODI world cup 2007. Does it get to become the best team for eternity in all forms of cricket. It is a result of ability and performance of a team at certain point of time for a small duration in cricket matches of ...
by arnab
09 Apr 2013 08:27
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

nelson wrote:I have issues with the following.

Arjun fits the requirment of terrain that IA would operate in.
Arjun is superior.
Arjun is indigeneous.



I hope such 'issues' will be presented in the context of the T-90/ T-72 tanks that exist with IA currently. Comparing with unobtaniums won't help.
by arnab
05 Apr 2013 04:23
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

Being a grizzled veteran and all that, let me summarize this dhaaga from 2005 or so when people like jcage was around (where is he these days?) Arjun is a totally useless design phase: this was when people pointed out that it was heavy had a drum in the back and was a totally useless design and con...
by arnab
04 Apr 2013 10:06
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

In the end, irrespective of however good Arjun is, if Avadi take years to build them, or gets crippled by "how to" whenever small changes are asked for, the equipment wont be ready for a real world role. The only reason the T-90 is 'ready' for a "real world role" is because the ...
by arnab
04 Apr 2013 07:51
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

^^^^^ So, to cut through the chase (and copy paste), a simple question: If we have a Arjun MK1 (forget MK2) vs T-90 engagement scenario, which one would come out tops? ;-) I think that's the only relevant metrics for us to consider. And we don't need to go all the way back to WWII or even the Gulf ...
by arnab
03 Apr 2013 09:16
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Feb 21, 2013
Replies: 2844
Views: 83247

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Feb 21, 2013

^^^ More on the above story on the attitudes of the younger population of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan from the UK’s Telegraph: British Council: Pakistan facing 'frightening' demographic disaster Young people in Pakistan are deeply frustrated, profoundly religious and have little faith in democ...
by arnab
22 Mar 2013 05:29
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

The fact that enormously overpriced deals for C 17s were made in breakneck manner without considering alternatives, is very different from a critical front line battle tank being acquired after waiting for 25 years. Only issue being that this "critical frontline battle" tank when purchase...
by arnab
22 Mar 2013 05:07
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

Some are always consistent in plugging for a certain set of interests. For example, I am consistent in plugging for best possible for Indian instrests. Sanku ji vouches for his own character because nobody else will :) Perhaps we should get baba ramdev to return the favour. As I had quoted earlier:...
by arnab
21 Mar 2013 04:50
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

If this is the state of things to come ... :( India wants to produce T-90C tanks Today, the T-90C tank is the main striking force of the Indian army. India is interested in transition from the currently existing large-unit assembly to complete localization of production and subsequent modernization...
by arnab
21 Mar 2013 04:44
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012
Replies: 4311
Views: 142820

Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

NRao wrote:
Looks like a c_i_a sponsored trip by the reporter to unveil weakness of syrian tanks.


A far better source would be the Israelis! :rotfl:


Or the US veterans of the Iraq war :)

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