Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 09 May 2020 03:31

lets focus back at home rather than looking at imported solution..in fact westerners have not thought about a solution. If at all there are only three places this solution can come from
1. Russia: Chechenya experience. Again localized esp when compared to overall russia
2. China: might pinch us in long term. But i think that is the right approach
In the end we need to devise our own strategy

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby syam » 15 May 2020 14:51

nam wrote:Sorry to say, but this is the Pak way of getting in to a war. Remember Kargil? You don't get in to a war with no end goal.

Sir, who told you we don't have end goal? this thread is full of it. I didn't elaborate the post-war scenario as it is off-topic for that thread. We can explore it here to our heart's content.
You can break up Pakistan, ONLY if those pieces actually want to be broken up. We would be delusional to think Paks in Sindh want to become a new nation. We break up Balouchistan, then we have to maintain forces to protect it from getting re-occupied.

Those pieces have no choice but to accept the present situation. atrocities by pak army are well known to the world. other ethnicity people totally fed up with pakjabis. only thing stopping them is the mean guy with the gun. if we can destroy this mean guy, everything will fall apart.

First will be Baluchistan. Just reimagine the map with separate baluchisthan. PoK will be already lost to them by then. They will be busy genociding sindh and tribal areas to curb the movements there.
Why would we want to occupy PoK with a hostile population and explode the insurgency problem? Not to mention screw up the demography.
Think about it. Why would people who we have been subjecting to fire assault for decades would be happy to be with us?

the present stock in PoK is recent settlements. please google local tribes displacement by pakjabi army. we are not going to win their hearts by giving roses. things will fall in place once we reclaim the land. Average radical guy in PoK is no different than the radical guy in valley. In fact they are same in every place. if we give up, we have to give up everyplace dominated by them. trust me on this, 2040 india won't be same as 2020 india. less 'bleeding hearts and winning people over' crowd will write policies. i assure you these radicals will have no choice but to behave.
Pakistan Army is Pakistan Punjab Army. You break up Pak in to PoK, Sindh, Punjab etc, the Pakistan Army will still survive!

The terrorists are cannon fodders. Our objective is to get the puppet master. Pakistan Army.

And Pakistan Army is found in thousands on LC & IB. We just need to get better at killing them and get better at announcing to the world that we are doing it.

Once we get the pakjabi army, what will be there? that's why i am saying the war will cripple the country. the country is hanging by the thread of military. if we snap it, it will fall apart. that's why i am saying, war with india will be final war for present pakis.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Jul 2020 20:39



x-posting this video here..very rare good work from somoene in indian media

1. Problems in balochistan:
a. Drinking water problems and how PA shot civilians for water protests
b. destruction of fishery business
2. number of ports balochistan port: speciifcs of gwadar
a. In the video: Gwadar, Pasni, jiwani, ormara. Weak paki navy might find it hard to defend multiple thrusts on these areas
b. This link should also provide some more details on paki coasta resources, more than usual media
c. interesing facts about depths of different ports. Gwadar-17 mt, karachi 9-10 m. Surprises why paxis havent developed it yet. Potential reasons i thought were: i. Lack of seller ii. competition to karachi iii. prioritizing RIT (radical isl ter) over development
d. how china started thinking about it back in 2003. Look west chinese strategy. Role that gwadar plays
e. geographic advantage of gwadar
3. Chinese military presence in gwadar. I havent seen anything more detailed info balochistan/CPEC
4. How CPEC land has been claimed. Military has been instrumental in displacing the natives.
5. Electricity in Gwadar comes through Iran and it is not for commoners for corner plot army. Only 3-4 hours in gwadar.
6. Another business model of paxtani army in water tanker mafia. This makes me think even if paxtan is defeated militarily how will they be displaced from the civilian set up. Something like congress. In 70s east bengal was still not that deeply entrenched as the focus was on west paxtan. That needs to be thought.
7. 80% of coastline and fishery business has been self destroyed.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Ramu » 03 Sep 2020 20:24

Ramu wrote:I think the time is ripe to start salami slicing pok/gb one post at a time.

I should add LAC to this now.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 04 Sep 2020 07:39

nam reflect on why South Punjab is being formed.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Feb 2021 22:26

Sooraj san had some expected and interesting posts in the economic stress thread..the more i see ..i see the more economic opportunity for indian companies post collapse...the fear is having hordes of people indoctrinated against us for generations infiltrating us. Imagine some MSM folks on steroids with a very large no.

This where the following things would help us
1. adhaar
2. NRC/NPR
3. it would help us to look CAA into that light as well
the biggest thing would be to reeducate those people..that would be a task for at least 2 generations ..we have to also remember that even Beedies were not pro india even after India helped them and provided a lot of buffer that lets them focus on economy


Suraj wrote:The point isn't gleeful comparison. They're seriously lacking in even basic industrialization parameters, to an extent I was taken aback by when I first looked it up. The first time I looked at the stats I thought "What ? That can't be 190 locos . Is that a typo - it has to be at least a 1000 locos for such a decent network." Probably each of the individual IR zones has 5-10x as many locos as the entire PR. Passenger traffic in India is 140x theirs. Rail freight tonnage is 250x theirs, and will probably reach 300x with a few years with DFC coming online.

They didn't even have a country entry in worldsteel statistics until recently because they were small enough to be lumped with 'rest of Asia'. Nowadays the worldsteel stats report their steel output data backdated to 2010, but until about 2 years ago, they didn't get listed in the monthly stats at all. Electricity installed capacity India is 16x higher now, and widening.

Let's look at another core sector component - cement production. Their total production is 4MT . India produces 490MT, or 120x. Delhi-Mumbai Expressway is slated to consume 1% of India's annual cement production i.e. that one road uses up more than their entire annual cement production by the time it's done late next year.

They have some decent stats when it comes to things like textile production and exports, sports goods and some other things. But if you think about these, they're all very low capital, high labour input fields. They can't compete with volumes elsewhere, but depend on niches. In basic core sector industrial capability, they're lacking in capability to an extent I didn't realize until I looked at the data.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Feb 2021 19:53

From the recent farmers protests, their organization it is clear why endgame of paxtan is necessary. Paxtani awam provides numbers in cyberspace to loony left in loony tunes. Paxtani awam, whatever they become never repudiate their roots unlike our own SJWs

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby venkat_kv » 10 Feb 2021 00:41

ArjunPandit wrote:From the recent farmers protests, their organization it is clear why endgame of paxtan is necessary. Paxtani awam provides numbers in cyberspace to loony left in loony tunes. Paxtani awam, whatever they become never repudiate their roots unlike our own SJWs

Arjun Pandit Ji,
a small correction. the paxtani awam never has/had roots to support. they belong to the pissful group now, but according to necessity, they are the original harappa descendants, projeny of porus, taxila inventors, succesors of alexander, persians, ghoris, ghaznavi's, moghuls and finally araps. they probably would have claimed chinese as well, but the facial features are not really a match. so just tallel than mountains and deepal than oceans and closel to lips than teeth friends will do for now.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Feb 2021 05:39

venkat_kv wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:From the recent farmers protests, their organization it is clear why endgame of paxtan is necessary. Paxtani awam provides numbers in cyberspace to loony left in loony tunes. Paxtani awam, whatever they become never repudiate their roots unlike our own SJWs

Arjun Pandit Ji,
a small correction. the paxtani awam never has/had roots to support. they belong to the pissful group now, but according to necessity, they are the original harappa descendants, projeny of porus, taxila inventors, succesors of alexander, persians, ghoris, ghaznavi's, moghuls and finally araps. they probably would have claimed chinese as well, but the facial features are not really a match. so just tallel than mountains and deepal than oceans and closel to lips than teeth friends will do for now.

In linux terms, what you are claiming is the shell, what i am referring to is kernel. Paxis may claim to be ghori ghaznavi, and what not like a virus, but deep down inside or even outside they dont piss on their country like some desis kids do..they will vehemently bring hr violations in kashmir, support propaganda about khalistan, earlier shiv sena, RSS fascism blah blah..they will never talk about Lal masjid, waziristan, swat, balochistan and bangladesh. They will never bring about PIA allowing passengers to sit b/w aisles...or their pilots having fake degrees and that's one reason why PIA is not allowed from US. A first gen desi girl woh had got her GC few months back in 2016 was telling a group that Indians are asking queen to return kohinoor with such contempt...and its quite common....this is what I am talking of ...paxis might be hanging by straws but tehy still hold that straw close..and that is what has led them to where they are...

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby venkat_kv » 10 Feb 2021 07:01

ArjunPandit wrote:
venkat_kv wrote:Arjun Pandit Ji,
a small correction.snip.....

In linux terms, what you are claiming is the shell, what i am referring to is kernel. Paxis may claim to be ghori ghaznavi, and what not like a virus, but deep down inside or even outside they dont piss on their country like some desis kids do..they will vehemently bring hr violations in kashmir, support propaganda about khalistan, earlier shiv sena, RSS fascism blah blah..they will never talk about Lal masjid, waziristan, swat, balochistan and bangladesh. They will never bring about PIA allowing passengers to sit b/w aisles...or their pilots having fake degrees and that's one reason why PIA is not allowed from US. A first gen desi girl woh had got her GC few months back in 2016 was telling a group that Indians are asking queen to return kohinoor with such contempt...and its quite common....this is what I am talking of ...paxis might be hanging by straws but tehy still hold that straw close..and that is what has led them to where they are...


what you are pointing out is all correct and fine saar, but it could also be due to the fact that there is nothing for them to feel good about and they have the entitlement complex where their problems have to be taken care of by someone else.
Indians like tos howcase what the country has to offer and show development and changes. what wil paxtani say to counter that - nothing so he will bray on brotherhood and cashmere and araps, geopolitics and location yada yada.
the rest is pretty equal- ordinary indian folks don't talk ill of our own country (only the deracinated and the ones thinking they belong to the elite section do. the critical talking ones are all but wiped by the army there, so out of the few remaining, none dare open their mouths.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby vinamr_s » 18 Feb 2021 15:53

Pakistan still owes Rs 300 cr pre-partition debt, says Economic Survey; India hasn't declared it NPA

It is interesting to note that the bitterness of partition is still high on the books as that the governments, which ruled India since 1947, never tried to write-off or consider it as a non-performing asset (NPA)

Even after 73 years of partition, India is religiously carrying forward the Rs 300 crore pre-partition day debt of Pakistan on its books. The Economic Survey calls it "Amount due from Pakistan on account of share of pre-partition debt". According to the survey, India has net liabilities of Rs 1,09,84,736 crore, including the meager Rs 300 crore from Pakistan.

According to earlier media reports, the Indian government states the same amount as a pre-partition debt in its budgets since the country became a republic. In 1950-51, this Rs 300 crore accounted for more than 10 per cent of India's total liabilities of Rs 2,865 crore and nearly 10 times of India's total external debt of Rs 32 crore. The first union budget of India presented by the finance minister RK Shanmukham Chetty in 1947 had earmarked Rs 197.39 crore as expenditure.

It is interesting to note that the bitterness of partition is still high on the books as that the governments, which ruled India since 1947, never tried to write-off or consider it as a non-performing asset (NPA). Surprisingly, the government has not added interest to this amount or adjusted it against inflation and exchange rate revision.

This liability has counter-liability on the books of Pakistan. The media reported in 2014 that the State (Central) Bank of Pakistan (SBP) recorded in its quarterly report that India still owes it a little over Rs 560 crore-- mainly on account of assets held with the RBI pending transfer to Pakistan. The original, unsettled claim from Pakistan was Rs 49.8 crore, but it swelled to over Rs 560 crore after adjusting for inflation and exchange rate revisions.

According to historical records, the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) had served as the central bank for Pakistan in its formative months-- until December 1947. The RBI overlooked the division of assets, including liquid assets in currency chests.

When the Indian government decided to stop the transfer of the final tranche of Rs 55 crore to Pakistan post-partition, as the neighbouring state-supported civil trouble in Kashmir, Mahatma Gandhi stood for settlement of financial liabilities.


https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 29566.html

What rupee is this? INR? Pakistan Rupee?

This article says they have adjusted it for inflation and exchange rate revisions. But, how can Rs. 49.8 crore in 1947 be just Rs. 560 crore is in 2021? :x Should be much more

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2021 01:23

Would we recognize Endgame when it happens?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Rudradev » 21 Feb 2021 01:40

No, because we ourselves will be a pawn in the endgame. Pakistan's self-destruction will be kept in gradual abeyance by G2 until India's development & capacity for power projection reaches a critical point. Then they will walk away and let it collapse on our heads like 200 million tons of toxic Jihadi garbage. From then on it will be GOI that is keeping the crumbling Pakistani state on life support indefinitely.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2021 02:49

Please answer the question.
What are the markers of that End Game?
You are answering after the end game.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2021 03:24

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editor ... 2003752583

A good article about US-China-India triangle

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Cyrano » 21 Feb 2021 15:54

Markers of NaPaki end game:

1. Runaway food and essential commodities inflation
2. Infighting in Pak Army, with 2nd military coup to depose a Jarnail on top of a 1st military coup where the said Jarnail has taken over after dismissing a civilian govt
3. Jihadi Mullah led popular uprising against Army control, Balochistan evicts all PA personnel
4. Pak Army selling Nooklear assets to Iran/NoKo/Turkey/any ME state
5. Sudden exodus of retired PA jarnails to Canada/UK

Any 2 of the above indicates they are on the brink.
Add one more and they have gone past the tipping point
Then the other two will follow in quick succession, with Balochistan declaring independence.

JMT

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Rsatchi » 21 Feb 2021 17:05

Cyrano wrote:Markers of NaPaki end game:

4. Pak Army selling Nooklear assets to Iran/NoKo/Turkey/any ME state
5. Sudden exodus of retired PA jarnails to Canada/UK


JMT

Cyranoji
Most of the others are happening in one way or the other.
But the these two probably portend the end is well near!!
Regarding 4. I am not sure whether they keep the 'pataka's' all mated or separate!!
Given the surveillance available these days wholesale transportation is impossible isn't it!
So even a whiff of selling technology should alert the watchers!

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 21 Feb 2021 23:18

Cyrano and RSatchi, 4 is not just a problem for India.
And they need to have something to sell.
Balakot showed all that is vaporware.

I agree 1 and 2 are big marker.s
The only real marker is if 3 happens in Pakjab

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 25 Feb 2021 01:10

https://twitter.com/ZafarHilaly/status/ ... 04481?s=20

#EndgameMarker1


Two days ago at Zamzama (Karachi) a mother was begging for food 4 her 4 kids. Yesterday, she was begging and vomiting at the same time. And this morning she was hysterical, her bleeding son needed a rabies shot. May God forgive us, for we have truly sinned.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 25 Feb 2021 16:27

^^
There are few basic things
1. Food/Clothing/acco
ramana guru's post above
2. Transportation
https://twitter.com/kayjay34350/status/ ... 7489935372
3. Energy:
Less said the better. Power shortages, fuel shortages. We are act

Coming to them selling nook clear stuff..are we sure if they have it now?

As for up_rising against their ar_my..my viewpoint is folks are so much radi_c_al ized in their anti india hat_red that would rather eat grass rather than go against their own. H0w does hte real ruler of paxtan become their ene_my? how do we get that done?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Cyrano » 26 Feb 2021 00:05

Can India resist the Ghar Jamai act ?

I've been following Paki media on and off for a while, it quite accurately reflects Pak's establishment's mind and mood. It is usually filled with rabid anti-India and Anti-Modi/Hindutva/RSS rhetoric which keeps repeating across a range of topics:
- News stories of agri sector in dire straits, food inflation galloping, electricity & fuel shortages, crumbling infrastructure everywhere, basically the country is going to dogs
- Corona impact - No repatriation of Pakis stuck abroad, huge loss of Gulf jobs, Cheeni vaccine is haram/all vaccines are haram, India's vaccine diplomacy heartburn.
- Usual anarchy of govt institutions, parliament, courts, Nasha Khan being called names by everyone.
- Chini, Saudi, IMF, WB loans rona dhona. They are calling themselves a beggar nation. Blame India for FATF.
- PCL vs IPL heartburn...

But since the beginning of 2021, there is a growing trend of statements like
- "we should resolve Kashmir amicably with India",
- "India should talk to Pak",
- "High Politics vs Low Politics" - whatever crap that is,
- "Can we have normal relations",
- "India has become an economic giant"
- "India should reopen trade"
- "India should give Pak vaccines"
- "India should not roughshod its smaller neighbours, include us in Quad(!!!)" etc etc.

So why this apparent change of heart ? Nothing fundamentally has changed in Paki mindset, behaviour, power structure, or what they teach their children (India hatred).

My sense is that those who see the whole picture in Pak have realised their collapse is near. Bajwa is trying one last trick to dump their mess wholesale over the LoC into the neighbour's garden simply by stating an intention to be nice.

Bajwa's recent peace utterings, this latest cease fire accord etc are designed to make the world, and gullible candlewallahs in India believe that there has indeed been a change of heart in Pak. (it takes so little after years of misdeeds). I suspect as soon as there is some thaw in the relations, they are expecting to become India's "Ghar Jamai".

Ghar Jamai is a good for nothing son-in-law who beats your daughter. But as soon as this fellow utters a few words of remorse, the girl's parents melt, forgive everything in the past and bring him home. Now the Ghar Jamai stays at In-laws place getting free food, bed, pocket money and his petulant demands satisfied. He thinks he deserves all that because he is humping your daughter for free. If he can getaway with it, the Ghar Jamai will sit on your hear and pull your hair out. When he can't, he will grovel at your feet.

Rebuffing an apparent remorseful and grovelling Pak will be the hardest thing for Indian establishment. Harder than manning LoC or Siachen. Harder than swallowing Pulwama, URI, Mumbai, Parl attack, 3 decades of unrest combined.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby williams » 26 Feb 2021 01:01

Chins backing off in LAC will be another factor. IA knows how to deal with these fake cheese fire agreements. Nothing will change on the ground so no problems there. Given that there is absolutely no public support. I don't see any change in mood in the GOI political circle to do anything more. Seems like Pakis are desperate for even for Chai biskoot sessions is the reality.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby S_Madhukar » 26 Feb 2021 01:10

For me a denuded denuked Paxtan under Indian nook umbrella is a reasonable endgame or even better defacto protectorate is a better option. I think the current dispensation is just trying to buy time until their affairs are settled abroad and then they can spew venom again

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Rudradev » 26 Feb 2021 01:28

My fear is that a denuded, denuked Pakistan will ask for something like Dominion Status under the Indian Union. The entire Khan Market Ecosystem will be up in arms demanding this because they know that without it, the BJP is slowly consigning their political prospects to inevitable extinction.

I predict that by 2030, the Indian Left (together with Soros, Omidyar, and foreign-government supported BIF initiatives from around the world) will be agitating for a dispensation that looks very much like Muslim-League-Demands v 1.0, but of course with completely new demographic realities. That is, a "Commonwealth of Independent States" type structure in which the sovereignty of the Indian Government is heavily diluted, Pakistan and Bangladesh are co-members with their own 100%-peaceful electorates, and the original Indian electorate is itself at least 25% peaceful.

As additional leverage to enact this program the Pakistan government will negotiate (as usual) with a gun to its own head. "If you don't accept, we will fail as a state, and then vast hordes of our poorest and most pious citizens will have no choice but to cross the border into India by the tens of crores, so what will you do?"

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Feb 2021 07:16

is it the peaceful version of Hijra?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Feb 2021 08:00

Cyrano wrote:Can India resist the Ghar Jamai act ?

[/b]



Here is my speculation, brickbats welcome (Xposting)
1. there could be pressure to clean up talibannies on paxtan in return for some money they anways. Thats why some easing off (money from IMF) from US but not full repreive still on FATF. Show the results on ground and take your bone
2. India might have agreed to wait and see change in behaviour (everyone is right in thinking that we are naive) under influence from US at the best of Paxtan.
3. We might be fine esp with a pause during summer/monsoon period to preempt the possibility of a full blown war and perhaps wait till oct nov for paxis to act stupid and deliver a big jhappad(read PoK) when they act (typically a cycle of 2 years during modi govt). This pause gives time to reorient orbat, which has been exposed, or might have been subject to some leaks
4. Possibly paxtan might want to delay their collapse by offering something to work with Biden by doing a afghanistan on china using their jihadi machinery.

any bets on if navy will play a role this time?


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