Radar - Specs & Discussions

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Kersi
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi » 14 Sep 2018 12:35

Karan M wrote:Kersi, Rohini is a derivative of 3D-CAR with some extra local tech and modifications for the surveillance role and the other is a Naval version with a newer antenna specifically meant for the Navy, extra stabilization plus signal processing mods for detecting low flying sea skimming missiles. 3D-CAR was a JV between LRDE and PIT of Poland and both went their own way with their own derivatives. DRDO ended up replacing the antenna, beamformer, put in its own TWT and signal processing, hence its radars today are quite different below the hood, vs the Polish versions.


THANKS for clarifications. I saw 3D CAR / Rohini at an AFB recently. I thought PIT - Poland closed down and LRDE bought all the rights / software etc.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Gyan » 14 Sep 2018 13:40

Akash Radar System uses three radars

CAR
BSR
Rajendra

Karan, can you indicate what would AESA equivalents of these radars perhaps for Akash NG or 1S?

My Guess:-
BEL MPR ARUDHARA
BEL LLTR
ADTCR

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi » 14 Sep 2018 14:08

Is Rohini associated with any specific SAM ? I guess it will be a surveillance radar at each AFB and major industrial / defence installations

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby nam » 14 Sep 2018 14:46

The equivalent would be ADTCR. However with AESA, you can have multi-function and the latest from Khan is multi-band AESA.

So technically DRDO could create common radar across the SAMs.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby brar_w » 15 Sep 2018 23:21

Dual/Multiband AESAs aren't a new concept (The Ford carrier has one). What is new is the sharing of apertures, operating at different bands of the spectrum within the same antenna. Lockheed has done that with the ARES which can operate at both S band and C band and Northrop has now done it with its airborne radar that can operate in both the X and Ku bands. IIRC Raytheon has also worked on a seeker for the US Army that operates in both the C and X bands.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 16 Sep 2018 04:34

Kersi wrote:Is Rohini associated with any specific SAM ? I guess it will be a surveillance radar at each AFB and major industrial / defence installations


Rohini is a derivative of the 3D CAR which is the surveillance radar for Akash batteries.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 16 Sep 2018 04:38

Gyan wrote:Akash Radar System uses three radars

CAR
BSR
Rajendra


No BSR, just CAR and Rajendra. The low cost BSR option was never exercised and AF/IA went with CAR itself.

Karan, can you indicate what would AESA equivalents of these radars perhaps for Akash NG or 1S?

My Guess:-
BEL MPR ARUDHARA
BEL LLTR
ADTCR


Well, LLTR is a one to one replacement of the CAR with an AESA antenna. So unless range is substantially increased in Akash (to 70km class and above), I dont see why Arudhra a heavy MPR will be used. Instead, a new AESA version of the Rajendra or a new radar like the MFCR on the QRSAM wont be developed as the FCR for the Akash NG.

ADTCR is not replacing the 3D CAR in IA roles but acting as a supplement for the flights with Reporter/ Flycatcher, giving them a 90km range reach, while a substantial improvement, we should remember its a high mobility, reduced footprint version (2 vehicles vs 3 of the CAR) and hence it has but half the range. For a proper Akash ++ sized ranged SAM, the IA would want a radar of corresponding performance, hence I think it will be the LLTR as the medium range version (it exists and is prepackaged in the same footprint as the existing CAR).

And hence, for the Rajendra a replacement system may be developed, a derivative or perhaps a much more compact new system.
This is my surmise.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Gyan » 16 Sep 2018 11:05

Yes. We need a single vehicle mobile AESA radar as a follow on of Rajendra. Perhaps using half panel of ADTCR to replace PESA panel of Rajendra. Almost like MMSR which has been cancelled or perhaps Like TAR which was downsized version of CAR.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Singha » 16 Sep 2018 11:29

while travelling to chennai, @sriperumbudur, there is a L&T project safety training center on a large campus.
near there i spotted the framework of looked very much like one of the fabled football field size ABM radar, pointing due east .

here https://www.google.com/maps/place/L%26T ... 79.8003705

photos here https://www.lntecc.com/homepage/multisl ... cility.pdf

so we do have the inhouse knowhow to build the infra for such projects including the huge power needs

we need to get cracking on it.

the immense DOn2 radar on moscow linebacking duty http://www.researchingaliensandufos.com ... radar.html

6 maybe needed to create a hemispherical dome around india.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi » 17 Sep 2018 11:34

Karan M wrote:
Kersi wrote:Is Rohini associated with any specific SAM ? I guess it will be a surveillance radar at each AFB and major industrial / defence installations


Rohini is a derivative of the 3D CAR which is the surveillance radar for Akash batteries.


Is it necessary that if there is a Rohini radar, there must be a Akash SAM battery very nearby to it ? I do not think so. Rohini may be used just for surveillance. For example I saw this Rohini radar at one place but could not see anything remotely associated with Akash SAM.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi » 17 Sep 2018 11:42

Khalsa wrote:
Karan M wrote:Only on BR can you find uber jingos who can't resist finding out even which truck is towing a radar.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Love it and Love us all

Chanda Ek, Tarre Anek !!


Are the truck tyres Indian or phoren ???

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 17 Sep 2018 15:57

Kersi wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Rohini is a derivative of the 3D CAR which is the surveillance radar for Akash batteries.


Is it necessary that if there is a Rohini radar, there must be a Akash SAM battery very nearby to it ? I do not think so. Rohini may be used just for surveillance. For example I saw this Rohini radar at one place but could not see anything remotely associated with Akash SAM.


No, the Rohini is an IAF specific surveillance radar derived from the Akash's 3D CAR. Not perforce linked to Akash.
IAF has ordered some 29 Rohinis for surveillance and 8 3D CARS for 8 Akash squadrons - its likely the entire order is Rohini, with the Rohini replacing the 3D CAR for the Akash as it is a more advanced variant in some respects. As of 2017, some 37 had been delivered.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi » 17 Sep 2018 17:48

I understand that IAF / IN has installed radar(s) on ONGC offshore platform(s). Probably THD 1955 or TRS 2155. It sounds like Star Wars !!

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby suryag » 17 Sep 2018 18:24

Kersi ji - there are no known sources which mention radars on oil rigs owned by ONGC, please do not speculate with an expectation that someone will refute it and in the bargain drop some tidbits

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 16 Nov 2018 11:14

IA has given a $500 Million order for 66 SkyCapture systems to IAI for a new ADFCR, which directs and controls two L-70s.

Image

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXtuzNAbJqE

Specs
https://defense-update.com/20181029_skycapture.html

Order
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/32981-49074-en/MediaRoom.aspx

Now what's interesting is the radar combination. IAI basically used the EL/M-2106 used in SpyDer, and the X-Band FCR developed by them for our Schilka program. Just goes to show how our orders subsidize foreign OEMs who then repackage the very product to score more sales. From this radar to the Barak program to the Yakhont/Oniks getting a breather from Brahmos orders - the examples are legion.

Image

BEL being BEL, is more used to repackaging OEM systems and remains dependent on DRDO/partners for such critical building blocks.

https://www.army-technology.com/news/ne ... l-4451712/
Image

The DRDO's ADFCR is likely headed for tests soon. It too uses a similar approach, in using an Indianized FCR derived from the Flycatcher, along with a new DRDO developed surveillance radar, probably derived from the QRSAM.

Image

The QRSAM radar vehicle is in the background. The QRSAM radars are also X/S-Band, whereas if memory serves, the DRDO ADFCR surveillance element is X-Band.

If the Atulya clears trials, the IA's requirements of several hundred ADFCRs will be met domestically saving billions of $ in forex.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2018 17:25

This OTH radar

The 29B6, or “Container,” radio system consists of two physically separated parts-- the transmitter and receiver. The receiver is located in the town of Kovylkino, while the transmitter is some 300 km to the north. It uses “mathematical-algorithmic software” to process complex data about a target’s location and trajectory.
(Uses ionosphere to best use)

Container can detect hypersonic missiles at the same range of 3,000 km.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... iles-38177


All said & done, they will never give details of target RCS on these.

Next gen missiles are all about stealth.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 18 Feb 2019 18:00

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 5558250496

More heartening news from the LRDE talk at #aeroindiaseminar The aesa radar, on a executive jet, is more or less done with A2A testing within 10%of performance expectations.


We can see a executive jet out side CABS hanger in HAL airport with a Tejas like nose

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 18 Feb 2019 20:14

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/1097419655558250496

More heartening news from the LRDE talk at #aeroindiaseminar The aesa radar, on a executive jet, is more or less done with A2A testing within 10%of performance expectations.


We can see a executive jet out side CABS hanger in HAL airport with a Tejas like nose

Is this one of the Embraer AEW&C minus radar since only 2 were delivered to IAF?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 18 Feb 2019 20:29

tsarkar wrote:
Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/1097419655558250496

We can see a executive jet out side CABS hanger in HAL airport with a Tejas like nose

Is this one of the Embraer AEW&C minus radar since only 2 were delivered to IAF?


The third Embraer will continue to have the AEW&C radar and would be used for development of the next AWACS
This is a small executive jet 1/3 the size of embraer

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 26 Feb 2019 20:14

https://www.janes.com/article/86834/ind ... ing-system

Indian Air Forces seeks locally developed hyperspectral imaging system
25 February 2019

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has commissioned the indigenous development of a hyperspectral imaging system for an estimated INR130 million (USD1.83 million) to monitor 'suspicious movement' under dense foliage domestically and along the country's borders.

Official sources told Jane's on 25 February that the IAF had tasked local research and educational institutions to develop this capability by 2021-22. They said the hyperspectral imaging system would capture data and images via optical and infrared sensors mounted on unmanned aerial vehicles and other aerial platforms that would be swiftly processed via deep learning algorithms.

This, in turn, would enable the IAF to pass on data identifying the exact location and numbers of 'unwanted' humans present in forested regions to the security forces on the ground in order to deal with the threat.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Vips » 22 Mar 2019 17:23

Tata Power SED bags Rs 1,200 cr contract from defence ministry.

Tata Power Strategic Engineering Division (SED) has bagged a Rs 1,200 crore contract from the defence ministry for supply of ship-borne 3D Air Surveillance Radars.

Tata Power SED has signed a deal with the Ministry of Defence to supply 23 ship-borne 3D Air Surveillance Radars to the Indian Navy over the next 10 years, a Tata Power statement said Friday.

The contract was signed under the Buy & Make (India) category of the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2013 that will be offering the Indian Navy a proven solution, with a production arrangement in India under Transfer of Technology (ToT).

The contract will be executed by Tata Power SED as the prime contractor with foreign OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) partner Indra Sistemas, Spain.

In November 2017, Tata Power SED had signed a contract with the defence ministry for supply of Portable Diver Detection Sonar (PDDS) for Indian Naval applications.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby jaysimha » 03 Apr 2019 15:18

http://www.radarindia.com/
Image
International radar symposium India
10 - 14 th dec 2019 bangalore

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby SaiK » 09 May 2019 18:26

Dileepetto or anyone, pliss to explain more in BRF terms what the ..it is? Nearing a cloaking technology?

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2 ... 35/125228/

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby brar_w » 09 May 2019 19:18

This is an old article and other more recent CEW info is available here in the various threads. Essentially, what the article is getting at in a round about way is the growth/evolution from Adaptive Electronic Warfare techniques, where you have the ability to, in real-time, adapt your electronic warfare and attack based on threat characteristics, towards using machine learning to find the right EA technique to counter the threat and to catalog both the threat emission and the response so that it is easily transferable (real time transmission is the eventual goal) so that multiple aircraft could contribute towards this effort and a repository is available that documents the changing nature of the same waveforms so that past experiences can be applied to generating new responses to evolving waveform using onboard processing and ML. Basically, instead of evolving and adapting your techniques (based on threat performance) within a fixed, programmed boundary you are able to develop new jamming techniques and waveforms in real time using ML.

CEW is essentially the next step in Adaptive EW. Think of a Software Defined Radio that replaces analog parts with digital components that provided several functions. An SDR can switch between large number of pre-programmed waveforms . CEW attempts to make these systems non reliant on pre-programmed waveforms but provide them the ability to create new waveforms, based on observed threat system performance, on the fly...So combining adaptive and cognitive EW abilities with very powerful software-defined Electronic Attack payloads, such as the Next Generation Jammer (essentially a wideband 80kW SDR), gets you far more capability against both radar and communication systems that can rapidly adapt and generate new, previously unseen, techniques.

DARPA had two programs that rapidly matured this capability (ARC - Adaptive Radar Countermeasures, and BLADE - Behavioral Learning for Adaptive EW) and both the USN and USAF have their own programs that build on top of that. The focus was not just on your traditional radars and air defense systems; A major focus was on digital communication and data-link networks the ones that are so often assumed to be un-jammable.
I believe one of the USN efforts (REAM) will transition to in service EA-18G Growlers later this year, so having that on the F-35 or the B-2 for that matter isn't that far fetched since BAE systems, Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Maritin have been deeply involved with the almost all the DARPA and USN/USAF efforts. We just won't know the full extent of the EW capabilities on both of those platforms till much later but the B-2 DMS is likely going to be the most sophisticated EW system the US has ever put on an aircraft and its iterations are also likely headed to the B-21.


http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/North ... m_999.html

More - https://www.afcea.org/content/smarter-a ... ic-warfare

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 10 May 2019 03:17

Brar, do you have access to this.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... juuFg32vmJ
https://asia-decs.com/ewa/agenda-day-1/
See AM Singhs keynote address.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby SaiK » 09 Jul 2019 09:03

Thanks to Jay
https://defenceupdate.in/indigenous-utt ... lca-tejas/
Indigenous UTTAM Aesa Radar has been integrated with a test model on LCA-Tejas
BY DEFENCEUPDATE · PUBLISHED JUNE 13, 2018 · UPDATED MAY 4, 2019

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Vips » 27 Aug 2019 00:27

Contract for installation and commissioning of nine Precision Approach Radars concludes between MoD and M/s Data Pattern (India) Pvt Ltd.

A contract act for installation and commissioning of nine Precision Approach Radars (PARs) was concluded today between Ministry of Defence and M/s Data Pattern (India) Pvt Ltd at a cost of Rs 380 crores under ‘Buy Indian’ category. The state-of-the-art radars incorporating latest Phased Array technology will be installed at Indian Naval Air Stations and Indian Air Force Stations.

The installation of these radars will enhance the Flight Safety at the terminal stages of aircraft landing at the airfields. The installation and commissioning of radars at Indian Naval Air Stations is envisaged to be completed by April 2022 and at Indian Air Force Stations by December 2022.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby LakshmanPST » 27 Aug 2019 16:08

I saw that Abhijeet Iyer Mitra's video posted on Rafale thread the other day... Sadly, it is being widely shared on Twitter & FB...
Most of his claims about the Su30 sounded ridiculous (500km range etc.)... But I got a doubt about one particular claim...
-
Do SPJs block own radars of a Fighter Jet...???
His claim is that Israeli ELTA jammers on Su30s were not integrated with the Russian Bars radar... So, the Bars radar was getting jammed by own SPJ...
-
I have two questions regarding this... Can anyone answer...???--->
-
1) Is integration of Radar with SPJ required...???
My Mango understanding of ECM is that flight's RWR receives an adversary's radar signal and accordingly SPJ sends out delayed reflections which confuses the enemy's radar... But since a flight's own radar is directed towards the front of the aircraft, it won't be detected by RWR...
Anyways, I still feel integration of Radar and SPJ is required so as not to take any chances...
-
2) Is Israeli SPJ not talking to Bars radar in Su30 as claimed by him...?
I believe both would have been integrated with eachother... Otherwise, IAF won't be operating them all these years...
-
Can anyone provide the correct answers...
Anyways, I heard ELTAs are being replaced by indigenous HBJs... Let's hope for the best...

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby nam » 27 Aug 2019 16:35

Yes it does. There was a comment by avm during the rafale hearing, where he says the radar needs to be off while using the jammer.

Radar receiver are tuned to receive certain frequency. Given the radar will be the nearest to the onboard jammer, it will be effected.

Having said that it is all about frequency. Jammer meant for bvr will pump out ku band, these will not effect the radar.

Only the ones pumping out X band. A reason why we r going with Israel radar and jammer combo for lca.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby LakshmanPST » 27 Aug 2019 16:48

So in BVR, they use Ku band jammers and not X band jammers... That is, they target the incoming missiles' radars, not the enemy's flight radar...
-
Also, is it the case with all radars & jammers combos in IAF...?
If a jammer and radar are integrated, can this be prevented...???

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby VickyAvinash » 27 Aug 2019 17:35

LakshmanPST wrote:-
Can anyone provide the correct answers...
Anyways, I heard ELTAs are being replaced by indigenous HBJs... Let's hope for the best...


Karan M addressed a few points of the article in another thread.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Vips » 20 Sep 2019 03:59

Rajnath Singh unveils new transmitter for Akash RF Seeker.

Singh unveiled a high-power transmitter for Akash-NG RF seeker, designed by the Microwave Tube Research & Development Center (MTRDC), a DRDO lab, and concurrently developed along with BEL, based on a production order from the Research Centre Imarat (RCI).

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Sep 2019 13:08

Vips wrote:Rajnath Singh unveils new transmitter for Akash RF Seeker.

Singh unveiled a high-power transmitter for Akash-NG RF seeker, designed by the Microwave Tube Research & Development Center (MTRDC), a DRDO lab, and concurrently developed along with BEL, based on a production order from the Research Centre Imarat (RCI).


Intresting, is this different from Astra Seeker and will Astra get this new Seeker?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby srai » 20 Sep 2019 14:15

^^^
Probably will be a scaled up version. Too large for AAMs.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Sep 2019 15:12

The next question does the relatively Big warhead became smaller now that it has to accommodate its own seeker and in the process also becoming more accurate?

Will a lighter warhead lead to longer burn time for the missile?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 20 Sep 2019 17:12

srai wrote:^^^
Probably will be a scaled up version. Too large for AAMs.


Can't say that, if DRDO was quick enough to use the Astra seeker across 3 programs, they could do the reverse as well. ;)

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby la.khan » 27 Sep 2019 12:37

With AESA radar Uttam coming up well, it may be fitted to Tejas IOC/FOC/Mk1A/MWF/whatever. Which other fighter jet in IAF can we fit Uttam? May be Mig 29, M2K, Su 30MKI. If Uttam can fit in Tejas, it should be no difficulty to fit in other jets. How much of a testing effort is needed for the IAF to see if Uttam mated to Mig 29, M2K, Su 30MKI offers superior performance vs their respective current radars?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Karan M » 27 Sep 2019 13:06

Its not just about adding a radar. You need the right electrical system to run a high power set at full capability. Then, you need to account for the weight distribution. The Bars is 650 odd kg, can't just rip it out and add a new radar. Then come the EMI/EMC tests etc, and the work on the jammer/RWR interaction, integration with WCS/Mission computer.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby MeshaVishwas » 02 Nov 2019 01:52

Mind=blown.
Excellent panel and shat shat naman to DRDO for it's work in this extremely crucial field.


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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Indranil » 02 Nov 2019 03:42

Karan M wrote:Its not just about adding a radar. You need the right electrical system to run a high power set at full capability. Then, you need to account for the weight distribution. The Bars is 650 odd kg, can't just rip it out and add a new radar. Then come the EMI/EMC tests etc, and the work on the jammer/RWR interaction, integration with WCS/Mission computer.

Work undergoing. Tenders out for manufacturing and testing of radome.


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