Radar - Specs & Discussions

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby sohamsri » 22 Feb 2009 17:30

Maybe AESA ain't the king yet.
Last edited by JaiS on 22 Feb 2009 23:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Article posted on the previous page

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby JaiS » 22 Feb 2009 23:53

Soham,

If you choose to post a article, then please:

1. Post it with links(if available and if no link is available then post with name of source and date),
2. Post excerpts which you think are relevant, and
3. Check the thread to verify if it has not been posted before.

Thanks.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby sohamsri » 23 Feb 2009 11:03

Oops ! My bad..
Will take care in the future..

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby KiranM » 24 Feb 2009 14:01

Cross posting from Artillery Discussion thread;

RayC wrote:I don't quite remember which of the ANPPS was being reverse engineered for the Infantry BFSR. First of all, the cost price was higher than the US one and secondly, the rustle of leaves in the wind could be mistaken for tanks. After a lot of wrangling, the govt forced the Army to accept it which they said would with ''good training'' eliminate the handicap and on line modifications would be made!! Great! Further, it was not 'soldier proof'. The Angstrom (I don't remember the exact name) which was the nerve of the system could only take a 1 foot drop test. Then, while other BFSR could be operated from within the trench, one had to go out of the trench to operate this!

I am not aware if the current BFSRs have overcome these problems.


Can somebody with access to concerned paanwallahs find out if quoted problems have been resolved?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby k prasad » 24 Feb 2009 17:06

KiranM wrote:Cross posting from Artillery Discussion thread;

RayC wrote:.....
......


Can somebody with access to concerned paanwallahs find out if quoted problems have been resolved?


Some answers:



RayC wrote:I don't quite remember which of the ANPPS was being reverse engineered for the Infantry BFSR.


I hadn't heard anything about BFSR being reverse engineered from ANPPS's... IIRC, we were using Israeli radars just after Kargil and took some concepts from that, but not to the extent of reverse engineering - in any case, all the modules in teh electronics are indigenous.


RayC wrote:First of all, the cost price was higher than the US one


Nope - the BFSR costs 40 lakhs all up, and that cost reduces with number of buys.... that is far cheaper than other radars. Performance-wise, BFSR is extremely good - I have spoken to Elta guys who do not hesitate to say that BFSR is better than what they have developed. {{Of course, they do add with a grin that we were using their radars before BFSR}} Thats a report that I've heard from others as well.

RayC wrote:secondly, the rustle of leaves in the wind could be mistaken for tanks.


Fixed - new algorithm + Doppler return audio. A slightly trained operator can make out the difference between the two quite easily.


RayC wrote:After a lot of wrangling, the govt forced the Army to accept it which they said would with ''good training'' eliminate the handicap and on line modifications would be made!! Great!


So the Govt "Forced" the army to order 1500 radars, of which 1200 are in service?? And they also forced Indonesia, Maladives, mozambique and other countries to order these radars??

RayC wrote:Further, it was not 'soldier proof'. The Angstrom (I don't remember the exact name) which was the nerve of the system could only take a 1 foot drop test.


I think it has been fixed to MIL standards - however, I'm not sure, but will try and check out.

RayC wrote:Then, while other BFSR could be operated from within the trench, one had to go out of the trench to operate this!


False - BFSR comes with a redundant standard army 2 wire connection to the Command and Display Unit, which can be extended for 100-150 m, enough to stay in a bunker, trench, nightclub, or whereever they'd like to be.....

Hope that answered the doubts....


More info - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEL_Battle_Field_Surveillance_Radar

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 24 Feb 2009 17:27

K Prasad - you & RayC are describing different systems belonging to different generations.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby k prasad » 24 Feb 2009 17:40

tsarkar wrote:K Prasad - you & RayC are describing different systems belonging to different generations.


I thought RayC sir was asking about the BFSR - and to my mind, I know of only one BFSR. If i am wrong, thank god for that!!!

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby soutikghosh » 15 Mar 2009 18:56

SECRET SIGNIT FLEET(Old Article)
FEATURES
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2008

Jane's Defence Weekly

Secret fleet: airborne signals intelligence

Martin Streetly Jane's Electronic Mission Aircraft Editor - London

Key Points
Operational needs have pushed forwards the development of SIGINT platforms that can support action by troops on the ground

Increasingly complex systems have become smaller and more easily upgraded, while offering richer, more timely data


Armed forces deploy various air platforms on crucial SIGINT missions around the world. Martin Streetly assesses their capabilities

Like many of today's military technologies, airborne signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection has undergone profound changes since Operation 'Desert Storm'.

Prior to the 1990-91 Gulf War, airborne SIGINT was primarily a strategic activity, with a heavy emphasis on 'bean counting' air-defence radars (electronic intelligence, ELINT), monitoring military and political communications networks (communications intelligence, COMINT), establishing the technical parameters of strategic missiles (via the interception of associated telemetry traffic: telemetry intelligence, TELINT) and military emitters such as radars (technical intelligence, TECHINT).

Operation 'Desert Storm' marked the first attempt since the Vietnam War to employ SIGINT collected by air vehicles (AVs) ina tactical context, where acquired data could be used in real or near-real time to inform warfighters of threats and enemy intentions during operations.

Subsequent operations in the Balkans and particularly during the United States' 'global war on terror' have driven this process to the point where SIGINT platforms can now be used to detect, track, identify and monitor the fleeting, telephone-based/short-range radio communications employed by insurgents and pass the derived intelligence to warfighters in executable engagement times. Equally, ELINT and COMINT capabilities have become a standard component in multisensor platforms of the types used for maritime, economic exclusion zone and homeland defence surveillance applications.

In terms of technology, the basic laws of physics have not changed and today's SIGINT hardware functions in much the same way as its forebears.

What has changed is the ability to miniaturise; to integrate subsystems into open architectures that are much more easily upgraded (either as software fits or as hardware 'plug and play' drop-ins); to make use of commercially derived software and hardware in an environment that has traditionally been bespoke; to provide communications links (including machine-to-machine) that can provide real-time data hand-off for 'shooters'; and to process data in a way that is a quantum leap forward in terms of what information can be extracted from a particular intercept.

Such capabilities represent the high end of the genre and it is with these dedicated SIGINT platforms, rather than multisensor AVs, that this survey concerns itself. Jane's has identified 20 countries around the world that operate dedicated airborne SIGINT platforms.

Surveillance platforms
The first thing to be said about Australia's 'Peace Mate' programme is that its existence has never been officially confirmed and no photographs of either the C-130 or P-3 aircraft supposedly involved have ever surfaced in the public domain.

That said, Jane's analysts believe the Royal Australian Air Force does operate single examples of 'Peace Mate'-configured C-130 and P-3 SIGINT aircraft, with the latter understood to have been outfitted by US contractor Raytheon (subsequently L-3 Communications Integrated Systems [L-3/IS]) during 1995-97. They are thought to be able to undertake COMINT collection within the 3 MHz to 3 GHz frequency range, being equipped with a satellite communications capability.

The 'Peace Mate' C-130 is reported as having been modified by Australian contractor Tenix, as making use of a predominantly US-sourced mission suite and (like its P-3 counterpart) as being equipped with a satellite communications capability.

A little more certain is Chile's continued use of at least one  of three Hawker Beechcraft 99A utility transports that have been locally modified for ELINT work under the 'Petrel Beta' designation. The capability centres on the30 MHz to 18 GHz band Desarrollo de Tecnologias y Sistemas (DTS) Itata ELINT system that incorporates analysis and direction-finding workstations. According to Jane's sources, Petrel Beta entered service in 1970, with three examples being reported as being operational during 2006.

Maintaining the enigmatic theme, China's airborne SIGINT capability appears to be vested in one  or more variants of the Shaanxi Y-8 transport aircraft. As such, the capability appears to be part of the High and New (HN) programme, with subprojects 'HN 2' and 'HN 4' being suggested as SIGINT platforms. Alongside these, a model of a Y-8 equipped with the CEIEC KZ800 ELINT suite was displayed in April at the Defence Services Asia (DSA) 2008 trade show.

Covering at least the 1-18 GHz frequency band, the KZ800 system is understood to comprise multi-operator equipment that is designed to detect, analyse (parameter measurement), identify and locate land-based and shipborne radars that are associated with air-defence networks and gun/artillery/missile fire control systems.

Of the two HN configurations, Jane's sources identify HN 2 as being the Y-8DZ that was first spotted during mid-2004 and is said to be in service with the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy's 1st Independent Air Regiment. HN 4 has been associated with both the Y-8T and YG-8 designations and is reported as being in service with the PLA Air Force. Of the two, HN 4 makes the most convincing SIGINT platform, particularly as it shares several external features and antenna arrays with the previously noted DSA 2008 display model.

Elsewhere within the Chinese military, the air force is known to have been operating at least one  Tu-154 airliner that appears to have been modified for SIGINT. This aircraft was first identified during the mid-1990s.

Moving to the Middle East, the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) has acquired at least two (and possibly four) Hawker Beechcraft 1900C-1 aircraft, together with two EC-130H transport aircraft for use as SIGINT collectors.

The 1900C-1s (possibly designated as the 1900C-1E variant) are understood to be equipped with a variant of the ESL/TRW (subsequently Northrop Grumman Mission Systems) ES5000 SIGINT suite that operates in four specific sub-bands (3-30 MHz, 30-300 MHz, 230-1,000 MHz and 300-3,000 MHz) within the 3-3,000 MHz frequency band. Other onb oard equipment includes an air-to-ground datalink and, while not confirmed, the EAF's electric 1900C-1s have been associated with its No 81 Squadron.

Egypt's EC-130Hs are thought to be COMINT platforms that were outfitted by the then E-Systems (subsequently L-3/IS) and delivered circa 1978. In July 2003 the US Defence Security Co-operation Agency flagged up a potential USD60 million sale of two roll-on/roll-off ELINT systems for installation aboard two "existing" Egyptian C-130H aircraft. To date, the consummation of this deal remains uncertain.

Enigmatic mission
Meanwhile, the French Air Force's Airborne Electronic Squadron 1/54 operates a pair of C-160G Gabriel SIGINT aircraft that were first fielded in 1989. Configured for both COMINT and ELINT, the Gabriel provides accommodation for nine systems operators and has a mission suite that was originally built around Thales-sourced COMINT receivers and analysis gear, together with the same company's 0.5-40 GHz Analyseur de Signaux Tactiques (ASTAC) ELINT system. While not confirmed, Jane's believes these aircraft have been progressively upgraded during their service lives.

The German Navy's Naval Air Wing 3 operates a pair of Br-1150 Peace Peek SIGINT aircraft. Again equipped for the role by the ubiquitous E-Systems, the Peace Peek aircraft have been the subject of at least one  major mission-suite upgrade and are scheduled to be replaced by the Euro Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

Based on the RQ-4 Block 20 airframe, the Euro Hawk SIGINT platform will be equipped with an EADS-developed COMINT/ELINT payload that covers the 30 kHz to approximately 30 GHz frequency band. As currently scheduled, the first Euro Hawk platform will be delivered in 2010 and, if successful, will be followed by four additional AVs during 2011-14.

The Israel Air Force's No 122 Squadron employs three Gulfstream V Shavit (Comet) SIGINT aircraft that are equipped with the Elta EL/I-3001 airborne integrated SIGINT system. The baseline EL/I-3001 offers both COMINT (20-1,200 MHz band) and ELINT (0.5-18 GHz band) capabilities. Operated by a 12-strong mission crew, the Shavit architecture incorporates both satellite communications and a datalink and is believed to have been used operationally for the first time in August 2006.

Israeli industry is also the source of the EL/K-7071 COMINT and EL/L-8385 ELINT payloads and the EL/L-8300 SIGINT suite that are believed to have been installed aboard the Indian Navy's four Israel Aerospace Industries Heron UAVs and Israeli C-130H SIGINT platforms respectively.

The Heron UAVs are assigned to India's Navy Air Squadron 342 and, while photographic evidence shows installation of the antenna arrays associated with the cited SIGINT payloads aboard such AVs, the payloads themselves may not be fitted. Use of an EL/L-8300 configuration aboard Israel's supposed pair of SIGINT C-130Hs is suggested by a 2001 Elta brief that noted installation of four such systems aboard Hercules transport aircraft.

Elsewhere within the Indian intelligence community, the Aviation Research Centre (ARC) includes a Boeing 707-337C SIGINT platform in its inventory of fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft. Characterised by 'cheek' antenna fairings, the ARC's B-707, which has been based at Indira Gandhi/Palam International Airport near Delhi, has been variously reported as being equipped with either a US or an Israeli mission suite. Jane's analysis leans towards the former because E-Systems documentation and the CIA's involvement in the establishment of the ARC during the 1960s supports this view.

India's known airborne SIGINT capability is rounded out by the 'information warfare' Do 228-201 aircraft operated by Naval Air Squadron 310. Such aircraft are equipped with a multiport antenna array at each wingtip and have been variously reported as being equipped with the 0.5-18 GHz Elisra AES-210/E Emerald electronic support (ES)/ELINT system or Bharat's up to 18 GHz Airborne ES System (AESS).

The Italian Air Force's 14th Wing includes a single G222VS SIGINT aircraft within its inventory. The G222VS is understood to be equipped with both Italian and US-sourced mission equipment and as providing accommodation for 10 system operators. Entering service in 1981, the G222VS is deemed to be in need of replacement, with a roll-on/roll-off capability installed aboard a C-130 being a mooted alternative. However, no replacement has been funded to date.

Naval patrol
Turning to East Asia, both Japan and South Korea operate SIGINT aircraft, with the former's capability being primarily vested in the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force's (JMSDF's) EP-3 platform.

Based on a Kawasaki-built P-3C maritime patrol aircraft airframe, the EP-3 was first flown in October 1990. It is equipped with a mission suite that covers the 30 MHz to20 GHz frequency band and has been jointly developed by Japanese contractors NEC ('low'-band segment) and Mitsubishi ('high'-band segment). The designations NH/LR-107 and NH/LR-108 have been authoritatively associated with the two subsystems, although the specific nomenclature to band coverage relationship remains unclear. Elsewhere, the type is reported as being flown and operated by a crew of 23 and as having both TELINT and SIGINT capabilities. The JMSDF has acquired five EP-3 aircraft that are assigned to its 81st Squadron.

The Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) operates a quartet of Hawker 800SIG SIGINT-configured business aircraft (also known as the RC-800 or the 'Paekdu/Peace Pioneer' platform) as part of the surveillance capability that is used to monitor the activities of its northern neighbour on the Korean peninsula. Like many other platforms, the Hawker 800SIG is fitted with a COMINT/ELINT system that was developed by E-Systems and which is quoted as having an upper frequency limit of 40 GHz. While not confirmed, the RC-800s may be assigned to the RoKAF's 39th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing.

Elsewhere in the region, both Singapore and Taiwan are understood to operate single examples of SIGINT-configured C-130s. The Singaporean platform is thought to have been outfitted by Israeli industry and is said to cover the 3 MHz to 3 GHz COMINT band.

Taiwan's C-130HE has been developed by a consortium of Lockheed Martin and the country's Chung Shan Institute of Science and Technology and is reported as having been assigned to the Taiwanese Air Force'sNo 6 Squadron. The Royal Thai Air Force's No 402 Squadron operates three Arava 201 transports that have been outfitted with an Israeli SIGINT system.

Returning to a European orbit, Poland, Spain, Sweden and the UK have all fielded airborne SIGINT platforms. The Polish Air Force operates at least one  (possibly three) W-3RR Procjon-3 SIGINT helicopters equipped with a Polish-developed mission suite that incorporates two operator consoles and covers the 20-18,000 MHz frequency band.

Within the Spanish Air Force, the 47th Mixed Group operates a single Boeing 707-351C SCAPA aircraft that is configured for both electro-optical (EO) imaging and SIGINT collection. As originally developed, the SCAPA platform made use of hardware from the Elta EL/L-8300 COMINT/ELINT suite married to core software created by local manufacturer Indra.

The Swedish Air Force's 17M Wing includes a pair of S 102B Korpen (Raven) SIGINT aircraft that are based on the airframe of the Gulfstream IV business jet. Operated by a systems crew of four, the Korpen capability is based around a variant of TRW's Wideband Tactical Surveillance System (WTSS), which provides 20 MHz to 2 GHz band COMINT and up to 40 GHz ELINT coverage. Like many other applications of its kind, WTSS incorporates an air-to-ground datalink.

Intelligence collection
The UK Royal Air Force's (RAF's) No 51 Squadron is equipped with a trio of Nimrod R Mk 1 SIGINT aircraft that are capable of COMINT and ELINT functionality. Since coming into service in 1973, the Nimrod R Mk 1 has been the subject of two major upgrades and has been slated for a third.

In the first instance, the 1992 Starwindow effort is understood to have been aimed at the platform's COMINT subsystem and incorporated a network of 22 new digital receivers. The 1998 Project Extract addressed the modernisation of the aircraft's ELINT capabilities and was rebaselined during 2002 to incorporate new antennas and front-ends; some automatic functionality; a central database; and data fusion provision. Extract was completed during September 2003 and was to have been followed by Project Helix, which would have given the Nimrod an open architecture.

However, Helix appears to have withered on the vine as the RAF mulls whether to replace the aged Nimrod with a new platform. Possibilities include the lease of a number of US RC-135V/W 'Rivet Joint' (RJ) platforms.

The US itself fields a considerable airborne SIGINT capability, with dedicated platforms being operated by the US Air Force (USAF), US Navy (USN), US Army, the Air National Guard (ANG) and the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agency.

The USAF capability is vested in two RC-135U 'Combat Sent' TECHINT, 17 RC-135V/W RJ COMINT/ELINT, three RC-135S Cobra BALL TELINT and 28 or so U-2S aircraft. Of these, the latest detailed RJ configuration is the Block 8, which is designed to provide an enhanced SIGINT collection capability, automated information dissemination, improved system reliability and enhanced user friendliness.

The Block 8 configuration can be recognised by its revised ventral antenna array and is expected to be joined by a Block 9 update in 2008-09. The RC-125U/V/W/S aircraft are operated by the USAF's 55th Wing. The RJ architecture also appears to form the basis of Saudi Arabia's pair of RE-3A/B SIGINT aircraft.

The ultra high-altitude U-2S' SIGINT capability takes the form of the Senior Glass COMINT/ELINT collection subsystem, a fully digitised variant of which was fielded during 2001. The U-2S has also acted as the testbed for Northrop Grumman's next-generation Airborne Signals Intelligence Payload (ASIP), five examples of which are expected to be used operationally by the U-2 fleet.

Looking to the future, theU-2S is scheduled to be replaced by the RQ-4 Global Hawk UAV starting in 2012. The RQ-4 Block 40 will carry an ASIP payload and Northrop Grumman is known to be undertaking work on ASIP applications for the US RC-12S 'Guardrail' SIGINT platform and the USAF's MQ-1 (ASIP-1C) and MQ-9 (ASIP-2C) UAVs. The U-2S is operated by the USAF's 9th Reconnaissance Wing.

The USN currently operates a fleet of 16 EP-3E COMINT/ELINT collection aircraft, the latest known update of which is designated as the Joint SIGINT Avionics Family (JSAF) Modernisation (JMOD) configuration. Launched in 2005, the JMOD was originally intended to be developed incrementally, with Spiral 1 introducing enhanced frequency coverage and Link 16 connectivity (amongst other things), Spiral 2 adding a data fusion/decision-making capability and Spiral 3 introducing a better low-band signal collection/direction-finding capability, remote tuning receivers and new antenna arrays (amongst others).

As currently planned, the EP-3E is set to be replaced by a new EP-X aircraft that was originally baselined to offer the same SIGINT capability as JMOD Spiral 3. Although billed as an EP-3E replacement, EP-X will be a multisensor platform that will incorporate SIGINT, radar and EO sensors. Aircraft in the service's current EP-3E fleet are assigned to USN squadrons VQ-1 and VQ-2.

Signals analysis
Within the US, the service is recapitalising 33 of its RC-12K/N/P/Q 'Guardrail' COMINT/ELINT aircraft to a common RC-12S standard that will introduce the Communication High Accuracy Location Subsystem-Compact (CHALS-C) geolocation system; an enhanced situational awareness (ESA) capability derived from the ASIP architecture; a new high-band COMINT capability; enhanced 'special signals' provision; and the X-MIDAS signals-processing package. Scheduled to enter service circa 2010, the RC-12S' COMINT subsystem also forms the basis of the COMINT system planned for the service's Aerial Common Sensor Increment 1 platform.

Within the ANG, the Utah-based 169th Intelligence Squadron is equipped with three roll-on/roll-off 'Senior Scout' COMINT/ELINT shelters that can be carried by 'quick-change' C-130 Super E, H, H1 and H2 transport aircraft. When carrying 'Senior Scout', such aircraft are fitted with clip-on antenna arrays (located on their main undercarriage and parachute doors, wingtips and tailcones) and as originally fielded 'Senior Scout' provided 2 kHz to 300 MHz band COMINT and 2-18 GHz band ELINT coverage. Elsewhere, the CBP is known to have operated a COMINT-configured P-3A aircraft registered as 'N16370', which is known to have been used in a counter-narcotics role.


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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby sum » 15 Mar 2009 19:00

Thanks for the article.

However:
Elsewhere within the Indian intelligence community, the Aviation Research Centre (ARC) includes a Boeing 707-337C SIGINT platform in its inventory of fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft. Characterised by 'cheek' antenna fairings, the ARC's B-707, which has been based at Indira Gandhi/Palam International Airport near Delhi, has been variously reported as being equipped with either a US or an Israeli mission suite.

Surely, we must have moved on from the single B-707? ( Im only talking about bigger sized aircraft as the ARC is anyways known to operate smaller Gulfstreams)

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby JaiS » 16 Mar 2009 06:51


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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby chiragAS » 09 May 2009 07:49

Off topic.
But didnt know where to put this.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/City-will-be-without-radar-this-monsoon/articleshow/4501262.cms
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090508/jsp/jharkhand/story_10933932.jsp
http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news/latest-news/566267/National/1/20/1

My question to Gurus, Cant our folks make such Doppler Radars!!
if we can put SAR in space :shock: cant we make simple huge football type radars for weather monitoring.
The MET departnment is installing the first one in Mumbai. and that too at "Navy Nagar" :shock:
they selected this place because it is at a very good height and with no obstruction. Heck now they are waiting
for Chinese experts to come and commission it.
As the third link says no source code provided. can this be a threat. i mean is it possible for these guys to secretly snoop movement of ships using a weather radar.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby MN Kumar » 10 May 2009 14:25

Northrop's New "Scaleable Agile Beam Radar" designed to replace the current Mech array units in the F16 ABCD models.
[youtube]Ki5nDKs_ui4&hl=en&fs=1[/youtube]

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby chiragAS » 07 Jul 2009 10:17

Guess BR folks must have seen this earlier. SAAB's ad
anyways here its is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDh9BiLZ ... r_embedded

TSP has this :shock:

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Dileep » 09 Jul 2009 17:46

About using the Cell towers as radar emitters, and the discussion in Missile Thread.

The sole function of a cell tower is to provide a source of RF energy, that will be reflected off the target and received at a dedicated receiver system. In a regular radar, the same piece of equipment transmits the radio waves, and collects the returned signal. In Bi/Multi stat radar, the emitter and receiver are geographically separated.

In regular radar, the range is obtained by calculating the time taken between the transmission and reception of a pulse. The radio waves travel at the speed of light, so the range to the target will be half of the distance light would travel in the time. The direction is obtained from the antenna steering system, that tells you where it was pointing to when the pulse was received.

In a bi-static radar, you have a triangle between the emitter, target and receiver. You know one side of the triangle (distance between the emitter and receiver), and the sum of the other two sides (the time difference between the transmission and reception of a pulse. You CAN get the position if you use a directional antenna, but the problem is, you should be pointing at the target when the emitter is sending the pulse.

But you don't really need to point. You can use the signal from more than one emitter and resolve the direction. But using an omnidirectional antenna will reduce the gain.

Coming back to the cell tower project, this is what you should do:

1. You can't expect the cell towers to have steerable antannas. So, keep them sectoral, just the way they are.
2. Send out coded pulse train, identifying the cell side, and a time stamped packet.
3. A dedicated receiver scans the area of interest, and receives reflections from multiple cells.
4. The DSP processes the signals, by decoding the time stamp and the tower id, triangulates and locates the target.

You don't even need time-stamping if you receive the signal directly from the cell. You can easily distinguish the direct signal, because that will be always there, and will be the shortest in delay. But having a GPS-like time stamping would make the system more reliable.

You don't even need to modify the cell equipment. You can plug out the antenna and plug it into the black box. Better still, the black box can be inserted in the cable path, and sit there all along. You can activate it over the air.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby koti » 09 Jul 2009 23:24

chiragAS wrote:Guess BR folks must have seen this earlier. SAAB's ad
anyways here its is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDh9BiLZ ... r_embedded

TSP has this :shock:

IIRC it is a wrong choice by TSP. ERIEYE (datalink?)is not compatible with most of PAF aircraft.
And don't you worry, Phalcon is miles ahead of this anyway. It has a better radar(denser tx/rx modules), Higher endurance, and better defenes.posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=695262#

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby chiragAS » 18 Jul 2009 10:00

koti wrote:
chiragAS wrote:Guess BR folks must have seen this earlier. SAAB's ad
anyways here its is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDh9BiLZ ... r_embedded

TSP has this :shock:

IIRC it is a wrong choice by TSP. ERIEYE (datalink?)is not compatible with most of PAF aircraft.
And don't you worry, Phalcon is miles ahead of this anyway. It has a better radar(denser tx/rx modules), Higher endurance, and better defenes.posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=695262#


I am not shocked about the erieye.
i am shocked because beggars are keeping flashy toys.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby vipins » 06 Sep 2009 14:01

from MOD report
Medium Power Radar, Arudra:
The project was sanctioned in November 2008 to
develop a ground based rotating active array
radar for IAF with 300 km range for Air
Defence application.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby dinesha » 06 Sep 2009 15:56

DRDO came in way of acquiring key radars before Kargil: Malik
http://www.zeenews.com/news561216.html

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kailash » 08 Sep 2009 16:22

SPY-5

IN could check if these are available for export.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Austin » 08 Sep 2009 17:10

Kailash wrote:SPY-5

IN could check if these are available for export.


Looks like a PESA , the IN will standardise on Elta 2248 AESA for high end ships and Fregat MAE4 PESA for medium/low end ones

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Electronic Warfare

Postby krishna_j » 19 Oct 2009 20:03

This post perhaps fits in the genre of Electronic warfare :

Heard about this in a recent lecture on security engineering which pertains to the Angolan Bush War of the 80's :

U.S. aircraft use an IFF system called ‘Mode XII,’ and systems are under development for ground troops too. But the South African Air Force (SAAF) had been cut off from Western arms supplies by sanctions and had to design its own system.

In the late 1980s, South African troops were fighting a war in northern Namibia and southern Angola. The goals were to keep Namibia under white rule and to impose a client government (UNITA) on Angola. Because the South African Defense Force consisted largely of conscripts from a small, white population, it was essential to limit
casualties.

So, most South African troops remained in Namibia on policing duties
while the fighting to the north was done by UNITA troops. The role of the SAAF was twofold: to provide tactical support to UNITA by bombing targets in Angola, and to ensure that the Angolans and their Cuban allies did not return the compliment in Namibia.

Suddenly, Cuban aircraft broke through the South African air defenses and bombed a South African camp in northern Namibia, killing a number of white conscripts.

This proof that its air supremacy had been lost helped the Pretoria government decide to hand over Namibia to the insurgents—itself a huge step on the road to majority rule in South Africa several years later.
.

How did the Cubans pull it off ?

Several MIGs had loitered in southern Angola, just north of the South African air defense belt, until a flight of SAAF Impala bombers raided a target in Angola. Then the MIGs turned sharply and flew openly through the SAAF’s air defenses, which sent IFF challenges. The MIGs relayed them to the Angolan air defense batteries, which transmitted them at a SAAF bomber; the responses were relayed back in real time to
the MIGs, which retransmitted them and were allowed through .

in Mil av parlance this is referred to Mig in The Middle IFF attack - however this story has somewhat been proved apocryphal over time - but just wondering in today's electronic age is this possible ?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby negi » 20 Oct 2009 23:45

For quick reference on RADAR inventory across the globe.

Electronic Warfare

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby John » 21 Oct 2009 05:15

Austin wrote:
Kailash wrote:SPY-5

IN could check if these are available for export.


Looks like a PESA , the IN will standardise on Elta 2248 AESA for high end ships and Fregat MAE4 PESA for medium/low end ones

Fregat is Planar array and Talwar/P17s have M2EM.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Baldev » 21 Oct 2009 07:32

Kailash wrote:SPY-5

IN could check if these are available for export.
don't think so that IN would ever need US naval AESA when knowing that several AESA/PESA are available from THALES,IAI,RUSSIA with TOT and without hiccups :D

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Baldev » 04 Nov 2009 08:57

P18 radar modernization Completely solid-state technology, including a transmitting device.

http://www.lemz.ru/netcat_files/Image/p18m.jpg
http://www.lemz.ru/netcat_files/Image/WorkPlace.jpg

Transmitter cabinet
http://www.lemz.ru/netcat_files/Image/Shkaff.jpg

for full reading with specifications of modernized P18M radar
http://www.lemz.ru/eng/goods/rls/p18modern/

In the most radars designed in period of 1970 - 1990 years klystrons, traveling-wave tubes or amplitron transmitters are used.

At the same time modern and future radars requires guaranteeing of perfomances that can not be achieved by tube transmitters. Just therefore Holding Company "Ukrspetstechnika" arranged production of solid-state (transistor) power amplifiers that are the base for construction of radar transmitters(solid state).
http://ust.com.ua/img/pr/um/um800_big.jpg
http://ust.com.ua/main.php?mode=usil&lang=eng&f=0

Automation System for Command Center of antiaircraft regiment
http://ust.com.ua/img/pr/c2_2.jpg
http://ust.com.ua/img/pr/c2_1.jpg

for full specifications
http://ust.com.ua/main.php?mode=c2&lang=eng&f=0


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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby sam_kamath » 07 Nov 2009 06:04


SaiK
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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby SaiK » 17 Nov 2009 23:24

http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/smart-takes/stealth-wind-turbines-avoid-aviation-radar-interference/1853/
building wind turbines whose blades are made with glass-reinforced epoxy and plastic foam, which produces a smaller radar signature during testing...The technology could help wind farms avoid problems with their turbines deflecting short-wave radar — so disruptive that, at times, the turbines can completely wipe an aircraft from a controller’s screen


perhaps we could short-waves to disrupt enemy controller screens.

In the meantime, fingers are crossed that aging radar systems will soon be upgraded with new algorithms to handle the existence of wind farms on their screens.


that means something.. that they don't need RAM coatings.. but is interesting to note for jamming applications.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby sunilUpa » 21 Nov 2009 04:13

Thales To Supply Indian AF Transportable Radars

Dubai - Thales has won a contract to supply the Indian Air Force 19 low-level transportable radar systems based on the Ground Smarter (GS) 100 sensor, the defense company announced at the air show here.

Thales will build six of the 19 radars at its Limours facility, southwest of Paris. Under a technology transfer agreement, its local partner Bharat Electronics Ltd. (BEL) will build the remaining 13 units in India, the French defense company said. No financial details were given.
Related Topics



Each low-level transportable radar system comprises the GS 100 radar, operational and communications shelters, an energy subsystem, mobility subsystem and quarters for personnel.

"This contract reinforces our position in the Indian region as a major supplier of air defense radars," said Richard Deakin, Thales senior vice president and head of the air systems division. "BEL is a leading supplier of defense electronics systems and subsystems and plays a leading role in a number of major Indian defense programs."

The GS 100, based on the SR3D radar platform, is a mobile, modular and multifunctional sensor designed to track complex target maneuvers at very low altitudes, Thales said.


The sensor can detect and track targets up to a range of 180 kilometers. The SR3D platform is also used in the Ground Master 400 long-range radar, launched into the market in 2007.

The international competition for the radar began in 2003. :shock:

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Baldev » 28 Nov 2009 08:40

unfortunately i could not find more info about this that how the radar looks like

there is GS-1000 radar with very long range detection range or they misinterpret GS-1000 as GS-100 radar but GS1000 can not be low level radar.
or GS-100 is totally new radar yet to be unveiled.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby SaiK » 02 Dec 2009 00:53

The LRDE was roundly criticised for not successfully developing, in collaboration with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the multi-mode radar for the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas. But the Israeli radar now being fitted on the Tejas has an antenna designed by the LRDE – the slotted waveguide array antenna.
http://flonnet.com/stories/20091218262510200.htm

So Ravi Sarma says its not AESA that is fitted. there goes the oped confirmation if someone can trust.
but, mr. sarma mixes words with IAF and IN requirements here:-
The LRDE is also undertaking the design and development of the active electronically scanned array (AESA) technology. The AESA technology allows ships and aircraft to broadcast powerful radar signals while they themselves remain under stealth. The AESA’s basic building block is the TR module, a self-contained, miniaturised transmitter and receiver that makes up one of the AESA antenna elements. In a bid to develop the AESA, the LRDE has developed L and S band TR modules.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Prem Kumar » 02 Dec 2009 02:37

Found this really informative article on stealth principles (I wasnt aware of the half-wavelength wave cancellation techniques mentioned here):

http://www.airplanedesign.info/52-radar-stealth.htm

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby dinesha » 02 Dec 2009 17:49

Indian Defence to outsource radar-work and battle management system
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 292420.cms
DRDO plans to outsource much of the work to develop six to seven LRTRs worth Rs 6,000-7,000 crore, to outside players.

The latest range of radars being designed will be an upgraded version of the LRTR already developed by DRDO in collaboration with Israel which are capable of detecting very small targets in the 600-800 km range and can spot objects as small as a cricket ball.

The Indian Defence stable already includes the likes of Swordfish, which has a range of 600 km, and more popular ones like Rohini and Revathi. The DRDO plans to upgrade the capacity of Swordfish to 1,500 km by 2011

Infact, a more ambitious project the Defence sector has taken up is the Battle Management System, which provides tactical command and communication from the headquarters down to the foot soldiers.

Integrating this system involves a lot of networking of data. Defence officials said they have floated tenders for the test project of Battle Management System which currently is worth a few hundred crore which can even run up to a few thousand crore once fully implemented. "The project aims to integrate the Air force, Army and Navy", an official said.

According to Major General Rajesh Pant, VSM, additional director general information systems in the Indian Army, they have successfully inducted 'Shakti' ACCCS, which is a network of military grade computers which provides decision support for all operational aspects of Artillery functions from the corps down to the batteries. "We are automating this. This will be with the artillary at all levels in a year", he said

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 02 Dec 2009 23:16

dinesha wrote:
According to Major General Rajesh Pant, VSM, additional director general information systems in the Indian Army, they have successfully inducted 'Shakti' ACCCS, which is a network of military grade computers which provides decision support for all operational aspects of Artillery functions from the corps down to the batteries. "We are automating this. This will be with the artillary at all levels in a year", he said


OK.We have the ACCS. Now please get the guns. please,please :(( :cry: :cry:

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Kersi D » 06 Dec 2009 19:15

rohitvats wrote:OK.We have the ACCS. Now please get the guns. please,please :(( :cry: :cry:


WHAT ???

YOU ALSO WANT GUNS ???? HOW GREEDY CAN YOU GET ????

K

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby rohitvats » 06 Dec 2009 23:30

Kersi D wrote:
rohitvats wrote:OK.We have the ACCS. Now please get the guns. please,please :(( :cry: :cry:


WHAT ???

YOU ALSO WANT GUNS ???? HOW GREEDY CAN YOU GET ????

K


What to do saar...I'm a rice eating SDRE Baniya....always greedy....get me the guns please......

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Dmurphy » 08 Dec 2009 09:20

DRDO To Partner With PVT Firms For Radar Projects
As India inches closer towards the development of the advanced long-range tracking radars (LRTRs), the local private and state-owned firms are gearing up to benefit from the outsourcing contracts worth millions of dollars that will come their way.

The state-owned Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) has indicated that it intends to outsource the majority of the work in developing six to seven LRTRs worth $1.2 billion. The latest range of radars being designed will be an upgraded version of the LRTR already developed by DRDO in collaboration with Israel. These LRTRs will detect small targets in the 600-800 kilometer range.
Indian private and public sector firms that have evinced interest in grabbing a chunk of business from the LRTR project include state-owned Bharat Electricals Limited (BEL) and Electricals Corporation of India Limited (ECIL) and private sector majors like Larsen & Toubro and Wipro. The outsourcing work for the LRTR will include manufacturing ancillary gear to the sophisticated software needed to run various programmes.

The Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), part of DRDO, develops radar systems and other related technologies for the defence forces. The latest feather in the cap of LRDE is the Long-range Solid State Active Phase Array Radar (LSTAR) programme. The LSTAR programme is a part of India’s prestigious India’s Airborne Early Warning and Control System programme. The LSTAR project has been approved by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification. It has been integrated and tested on ground-based systems and qualified for airborne applications. The LRDE has developed the X-band active electronically scanned array (AESA) technology. The AESA technology allows ships and aircraft to broadcast powerful radar signals while they themselves remain under stealth. The AESA radar could be fitted on the indigenous ‘Tejas’ Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) by 2014 :!: under the LSTAR project.
Indian Defence is also focusing towards more Battlefield Management Systems (BMS) and integrating the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force. This includes the development of sensors, digitally enabled weapons, information grids which will enable the efficient functioning of the weapons and networking of data.

According to Indian Army officials, a fully digitized system has been integrated by the defence sector which is the artillery combat command and control system (ACCCS). The ‘Shakti’ ACCCS has been inducted and it is a network of military grade computers which provides decision support for all operational aspects of artillery functions from the corps down to the batteries. This ACCCS will be operational within an year at all levels of the artillery, officials added.

Other significant developments that will enhance the network-centric capabilities of the Indian defence includes the design and development of an UCAV (unmanned combat aerial vehicle) which will not only conduct surveillance, gather intelligence and transmit it but will also help detect the target and destroy identified objects.The UCAV can be controlled at various command control centres.

Currently, India has radars like the ‘Swordfish’ which has a range of 600 kilometres and the DRDO plans to upgrade the capacity of Swordfish to 1,500 km in a couple of years. :!: The LRDE has also produced the Indra-1 and Indra -2 radars that work on the Doppler principle. Indra-1 has a 50 kilometre range and is integrated with the fire control radar. Indira-2, an improvement over Indira-1, was designed as per the needs of the IAF which wanted a radar that can identify dense-formation targets and can be used even at high altitudes. LRDE has also developed the ‘Bharani’, a portable, short-range, light-weight radar which provides 2D surveillance, mainly in mountainous terrain, against aerial targets. Besides that, LRDE’s portable Battle Field Surveillance Radar (BFSR) – Short Range has been developed and it is an all-weather automated detection of intrusions system was needed. Over 1,400 BFSRs are now being used by the Army against moving surface targets. A BFSR radar that offers foliage penetration is under development.
The LRDE has also developed an electronically scanned C-Band Doppler Weapon Locating Radar for use by the Artillery Corps called ‘Rohini’ which is a 3D, medium-range, vehicle-mounted surveillance radar that offers 360 degree coverage and has a range of 150-180 kilometre range. It is used against low, medium and high-flying targets. It is designed for the IAF and will also be part of the Akash missile system. LRDE has also developed ‘Aslesha’, a 3D low-level, light-weight radar designed for use in mountainous terrain and against aerial targets. There is also ‘Rajendra’ which is a multi-function, phased array radar and is the primary sensor at the battery level for the Akash weapon system. It can perform extensive searches, track multiple targets and missiles as well as command and guide multiple missiles concurrently.


One question: Wasn't Rohini Radar manufactured under ToT from Poland?

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 08 Dec 2009 09:51

One question: Wasn't Rohini Radar manufactured under ToT from Poland?

TOT ?! heck, no ! it was started as a joint development and the parties went their own way after the initial activity was completed.

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby sunny y » 08 Dec 2009 11:59

One question: Wasn't Rohini Radar manufactured under ToT from Poland?


Hi Dmurphy.....Here is this article on Livefist. Here Shiv Aroor posted Prasun Sengupta's article from Force magazine where he claims that Rohini was bought from Poland.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/08/tr ... sun-k.html

Check out the comments made by a guy named Ravi who claims to be employee in LRDE. His comments will put this Prason BS to rest. He has explained everything clearly.


Thanks

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Re: Radar - Specs & Discussions

Postby Dmurphy » 08 Dec 2009 12:28

^^^ Thanks Sunny


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