Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vijyeta » 19 Apr 2009 19:13

Shankar wrote:
At the Paris airshow of 1973, the Tu-144 was said to be cleaner and faster than Concorde ands certainly was bigger. On the third day of the show ......This was why there was a cover-up and why the deaths of 8 people had no explanation.

I was aware of the 'shadowing Mirage' angle. To its credit, the Tu 144 also served as perhaps the first ever supersonic civilian mail carrier.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 20 Apr 2009 12:05

Bit off the topic of this thread but interesting titbits on Tu 144 from Russian sources -Shankarosky

TUPOLEV DB started SST designing in early 60-s. First technical proposals were mainly based on large-range bombers. Later on when activities started on TU-144 a/c S.Yeger proposed preliminary project of TU-144 powered by NK-144 engines. Besides TUPOLEV DB preliminary study of SST in the USSR was made in DB-23 named after V. Myasishev. In this DB in late 50-s some original SST projects were prepared (M-53, M-55A, M-55B and M-55V).
Early 60-s were characterized by deployment of practical activities on English-French SST “Concord” (investigation of the subject was started in 1955-1956) with cruising supersonic flight speed more than M=2 and flight range of 6000 – 6500 km carrying 120-140 passengers. Simultaneously leading aircraft USA companies basing on their view of future SST market started working on designing of much greater SST than “Concord” which was intended for transportation of 250-300 passengers at cruising speed up to M=3 for the range of 7000 – 8000 km (projects of Boeing, Lockheed, Do
Analysis of conditions of existing of future SST made in the USSR regarding to the level of native aircraft manufacturing and its closest future and also regarding economical potentials of the country and Civil Aircraft Fleet demands, revealed that for the USSR the most preferable was building of the SST which was close to “Concord” by its performance data. In the course of building the Soviet SST a number of scientific tasks were put in front of our aircraft science and industry These tasks have not ever been put in front of our subsonic passenger or military supersonic aviation. first of all to ensure required SST performance data (M=2 flight for the range of up to 6500 km carrying 100-120 passengers in combination with acceptable take-off and landing data) it was necessary to provide significant improvement of aerodynamic cleanness of the aircraft during cruising flights at M=2 –2.2. Under such conditions L/D ration should be increased up to 7.5 – 8.0. It was necessary to solve stability and controllability problems of a heavy aircraft during flights within subsonic, transonic and supersonic envelopes, to elaborate practical methods for trimming aircraft under all said conditions in view of minimization of aerodynamic loss. Durable flight at the speed of M=2 was associated with strength of airframe design at increased temperatures (close to 100-120 o C). We were going to create heat resistant structural material, lubricants, sealant and also to elaborate new types of structures capable for long-term operation under cyclic aerodynamic heating. Very high requirements were established to Powerplant components: it was necessary to build powerful and economically efficient engines capable to operate steadily during supersonic flight. Also it was necessary to solve problems of controlling air intakes operated within wide range of altitudes and speeds by controlling required inlet air flow at possible less aerodynamic loss. The most efficient was to perform durable supersonic cruising flight at high altitudes. Accordingly main and component DB were put in front of the tasks of designing of principles of new air-conditioning systems and later specific components and systems ensuring passengers and crew members with comfortable conditions at high altitudes (up to 20 km) and when durable flights at significant heating of airframe components. We had to design a number of new devices and systems for automatic flight control, precision navigation when performing durable supersonic flight and also automatic landing. Necessity arose to investigate ecological features of the SST operation associated with emission of great amount of engines exhaust gases at high altitudes and their affect upon ozone layer, noise and sound wave affect upon people, animals and buildings, affect of durable flight at high altitudes upon passengers and crew members associated with solar irradiation. When designing the SST it was necessary to take into account particularity of domestic and international air transportation, existing airfields and air traffic control.

All said problems were studied comprehensively with attraction of western practice by TsAGI, TUPOLEV DB, and other DBs involved in the Program on designing of soviet SST. Official basis of the first generation SST (SST-1) building designated as TU-144 was Resolution of Council of Ministers of the USSR, 1963 and Decree of the same year. TUPOLEV DB was given a task to design and build SST with cruise flight speed of 2300-2700 km/h, operational range at supersonic speed with 80-100 passengers on the board was prescribed to be 4000-4500 km; in accelerated version with additional fuel tanks carrying 30-50 passengers – 6000-6500 km/h. Operation from I-st class airfields at normal take-off weight of 120-130 tones. In 1966-1967 we were going to build 5 TU-144 machines (two machines were intended for structural tests). In view of technical complexity of obtaining maximal flight range works were divided into two steps: at the first step operational flight range was to be 4000- 4500 km/; at the second step TU-144 a/c had to reach flight range of 6500 km. By-pass turbofans with reheat chamber was prescribed for the TU-144 a/c. DB named after N. Kuznetsov undertook creation of turbofans for the SST that were designated as NK-144 having take-off thrust of 20000 kgf and sfc equal to 1.35-1.45 kg/kgf h at cruising flight. It should be noted that the TU-144 project progress was mainly effected by a successes of engine manufacturers. This choice was not self-evident. It was more reliable and chipper and allowed flights within more wide range of altitudes and speeds in comparison with simple turbojets. Possibility to have small fuel consumption at cruising speed and consequently – ensurance of required flight range. It was not a surprise both for TUPOLEV specialists and for Ministry of Aircraft Industry. During designing of Myasischev SST there were results showing that it was quite realistic to obtain suitable supersonic flight range if to use engines with sfc not more than 1.2 kg/kgf hour. Prototype of such engine was built in the 60-s in the USSR – it was nonafterburning turbojet “16-17” (take off was 18000 kgf, sfc at cruising flight was 1.15 kg/kgf hour) which was designed in DB-16 named after P.Zubtsov. English and French designers of the “Concorde” chose an intermediate way and selected reheated turbojet Bristol “Olymp” 593 with non-high reheating and with SFC = 1.327 kg/kgf hour at afterburning (afterburning takeoff is 17200 kgf). Unfortunately works on heavy SST at Myasischev DB were terminated. Thus in early 60-s in the USSR development of powerful economically efficient nonafterburning turbofans temporarily was stopped (DB-16 was switched to solid rocket engines. As a result by the beginning of the TU-144 a/c designing the TUPOLEV DB had to undertake a technical risk by selecting NK-144 . In 1964 it was decided to resume works on economically efficient powerful nonafterburning turbojet for SST: in DB-36 under P. Kolesov they started to design RD-36-51 turbojet for TU-144 a/c with maximal take off equal to 20 000 kgf and estimated SFC of 1.23 kg/kgf h at supersonic cruising .

Chief Designer and Manager was Alexey Tupolev. Tu-144 a/c conception and future layout was originated under his leadership and with best aviation science specialists involved. Later on the TU-144 a/’c Project was managed by Y. Popov and B. Gantsevskiy. Soon the TU-144 Project became one of main and priority subjects of the DB and of the whole Ministry of Aircraft Industry for the nearest decade.


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby ashdivay » 20 Apr 2009 12:07

vivek.sharma wrote:Question:

How does the Fuse mechanism for explosives works on following, is it mechanical like hand guns or electronic? While answering, if you keep the answer in context of arms used by Indian Forces, that will be great.

1. Big Guns placed on Tanks like T-72, T-90, Arjun MBT

What exactly u need ?
Sabot rounds in tanks are "KE" or kenitic energy rounds. they are APFSDS . once the shell is fired from the the main gun, the outer shell is discarded and just thin long dart like projectile is left, this dart moves at high velocity. and it kills eny tanks by penetrating their armour just by shear kenitic energy. there is no primary explosions from this round . but the force is soo great that the dart breaks into million molten peaces as it enters the tank due to extream heat generated by the kenitic energy at which it impacts the armour. inside of tank is filled with molten hot sharpnel drops . causing secoundry explosions in stored ammo.

Most times when a KE round impacts hits a enmy tank there is no immidate smoke or explosion , but in 70% cases it kills all the crew. 20% of time causes extream damadge and kills or injurs all crew.

the american DU rounds use depleated Uranium , the DU is not used for radition , its used for its strong metal. which is used to make the tough dart. the DU KE rounds dart has more velocity and penetration power.

Thats just the KE or Sabot or APFSDS round . there are more , like HEAT, Canister,STAFF etc.
if i have time ill write up on others. if any questions please post .

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 20 Apr 2009 13:37


There's a "Newbie Corner and Military Miscellaneous" thread for basic military and technology questions.

This link here:


I would recommend moving all questions and discussions on explosives etc to that thread and leave this one for just the scenarios. At the moment there are more posts on the former and less on the actual scenarios.

If Admins can help move the discussions to the relevant thread it will be most helpful.



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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 20 Apr 2009 14:34


Major Daljit was not a happy man .Neither he was very disturbed . No formal declaration of war has still been made but still he was tasked by his Colonel to take out the advance guard of 30 odd T-80 s that Pakistanis have placed just inside their side of the border to act as trip wire for any sudden Indian advance .A detachment of which was responsible for the skirmish on supply convoy.

Intelligence sources have indicated that Pakistani tanks may attempt a sneak attack under cover of darkness anytime and he was ordered to stop such attack and destroy the attacking contingent preferably they come anywhere close to the central ammo dump just next the state highway and in the open like most war time dumps .

The Pakistani T-80 s were placed in a wide semicircle in a shallow irrigation ditch with just the gun barrels protruding out ,bulk of the tank out of clear line of sight giving them some protection from a sudden assault .Daljit knew they must be watching him through their night vision right at this moment .

He had no covert approach and the distance was nearly 4 km s .

There was just one option –an expensive option .He had to spook the Pakistani tanks into moving out of their protective ditch.

The first page in the history of domestic tank construction was written over seventy years ago, on August 31, 1920, when the first-born Russian tank emerged from the Krasnoye Sormovo plant and was subjected to test runs, launching this essential branch of the defense industry.
Paradoxes are frequent in history. The tank had been invented as a combat weapon by Russian engineers well before 1920. However, its subsequent development did not follow.
Tank construction necessitated the advancement of science, special metallurgy, motor engineering, which was a privilege of developed countries, but Russia was not such a country at that time.
Although a pioneer in inventing the tank, Russia lagged behind Western countries in tank construction at the start. England and France employed tanks against German troops in offensive operations during World War I. The first-born Russian tank, frankly speaking, was an improved prototype of a captured French Reno tank.
The tank weighed seven tons and was armed with the naval Gochkis gun and manned with two crew members. During test runs the tank developed a speed of 8.5 km/h, levelled the ruins of a building and negotiated a barrier half a meter high. People are right to say: "A man is famous for his deeds". Fitter Mikhail Koshkin was one of the first people to organize tank production at the Krasnoye Sormovo plant. He also did his best in the production of the first combat armored vehicles. Who could foresee that this young worker, who had come from Vyatka to Nizhni Novgorod, possessed exceptional "design intuition" and that after twenty years Koshkin would, together with A.A. Morozov, develop the best tank of World War II, T-34 and would be honored as a Hero of Socialist Labor and win the State Prize.
According to English writer D. Ordgill, the "T-34 was not the inspiration of a genius but the result of common sense. Its advent was due to people who could have seen the battlefield in the middle of the 20th century better than anyone in the West." Tank construction and tank battles are exceptional chapters in the chronicle of World War II against Hitlerism and their contribution to the victory is of paramount importance. Anyone who remembers those years can readily imagine what would have happened to Russia and the world as a whole, if we had not set up, based on the industry, powerful tank construction centers in Leningrad, Kharkov, Nizhni Tagil, Nizhni Novgorod, Chelyabinsk and had not involved such men of design gifts as M. Koshkin, A. Morozov (designers of T-34) and Zh. Kotin (KV and IS heavy tanks).
Remember the July-August 1943, the battle of Kursk and its remarkable daySour victory in the greatest tank battle on the Prohorovka field. In this battle tanks fought Nwall-against-wallO: one power had to crush the other. On July 12, 1,200 tanks and self-propelled guns participated from both sides on a relatively small patch of land. The enemy lost 400 tanks in one day alone.
The vaunted Panthers and Tigers, tanks created by German designers specially for the battle of Kursk, could not hold out against the Koshkin and Morozov T-34s and KotinOs heavy tanks. A revolution in tank design was marked by the advent of the T-64 tank created by the A.A. Morozov design bureau in the late 1960s. The tank was the first to employ missile-gun armament (even now no foreign tank can boast such weapons) and automatic gun load.
Further tank development was undertaken in the city on the Neva River, where the design bureau headed by N.S. Popov created a tank with a gas turbine engine, designated T-80U. In Nizhni Tagil, General Designer V.N. Venedictov developed the T-72. These tanks are still considered the world's best models.

The most commonly used ammunition allowance of modern tanks comprises two types of armor-piercing shells: HVAP and HEAT fragmentation or HVAP and high-explosive squash head (HESH). Once a HEAT-F or HESH shell has been fired, the fragmentation and blast effects are secondary and collateral. It may well augment the armor-piercing effect to the detriment of other tank missions.
Explanations are offered in different original concepts of the tank as a weapons system. According to one such concept, the main tank mission is to fight enemy tanks presenting a major threat (to realize the "fight the equal" principle), while the tank defense against ground and air antitank weapons is considered the responsibility of a covering party, e.i., accompanying infantry combat vehicles and self-propelled air defense mounts.

When confronted by hit-and-run maneuver tank battle, especially on rugged, smoked and dust-laden terrain, the dominant factor is played by the readiness to fire instantly as soon as an enemy tank appears. To this end, the tank gun must be kept loaded, and any shell of the ammunition load must provide high armor-piercing effect. The idea of ammunition allowance comprising two types of armor-piercing shells is based on this principle.
However, military experience disproves this concept. For example, the tank losses during the fourth Arab-Israel war in 1973 broke down as follows: over 50 percent destroyed by antitank guided missiles, 28 percent by aircraft, light antitank grenade launchers, tank-killing mines, and only 22 percent by tank fire.
Under another concept the tank constitutes a self-contained weapons system capable of accomplishing independently all combat missions, including self-defense against tank destroyers. This problem cannot be solved by using available standard impact-fuzed shells, as the fragmentation effect on single targets during flat trajectory fire by these shells indicates very poor coordination between the impact point f (x, y) and kill probability curve G (x, y).
The dispersion pattern, with a ratio of longer axes of approximately 50:1 at a distance of 2 km, is extended along the line of fire, while the bursting effect area is perpendicular to this line. As a result, the fire pattern and the bursting effect area only coincide over a very small section.
To find a way out, a multipurpose tank-gun shell of versatile application boasting a killing pattern extended along the shell path has been developed and patented by the Bauman State University Special Engineering Research Institute (Russian Lcns No. 2018779, M. cl. F42 V 13/48, published on August 30, 1994).
The shell produces simultaneously two fragmentation patterns: axial (focused) pattern of submunitions and radial (circular) pattern of split fragments. The shell comprises an explosive charge and a nose unit containing submunitions made from steel or heavy tungsten-based alloys in a form allowing for their dense stowage in the nose unit, for instance hexahedral prisms. Dense stowage retains the shape of submunitions during blast propulsion and consequently reduces the losses of explosive charge energy for submunition deformation. Owing to the base detonation of the explosive charge, the submunition unit is propelled by incident blast wave, thereby increasing the propulsion velocity. The velocity of the submunition unit ejection from the shell body depends on the weight and other design parameters and ranges from 300 to 500 m/s, with the initial resultant velocity of the subminitions ranging from 1,100 to 1,300 m/s at a shell velocity of 800 m/s. A light head cap provided with a point contact-sensing device and filled with polyurethane foam does not impede the submunition unit ejection.
Explosion of a 125mm focused fragmentation shell at a distance of 30 m from a target produces a killing circle 5 m in diameter. With the submunition unit and the submunition weighing 2.5 kg and 5 g, respectively, and a submunition total number of 500, the average density in the killing zone will be 25 pcs/m2 which is quite sufficient to reliably defeat any targets with a steel equivalent of up to 6 mm. A 15-20 g rise in the submunition weight will increase the steel equivalent of penetrated target up to 10 mm. It will be sufficient to defeat light armor targets. The effect of a dense submunition beam on the tank front armor will destroy all external vision devices and cause full blinding of the tank.
Time setting (time of flight to a set-forward point of burst) is introduced in the base or nose command receiver through a contact or noncontact line. To rule out errors, the shell velocity is measured by the noncontact method and the resultant value is introduced into the computation of time setting. The latter is subsequently fed to the time fuze via a laser beam (or by any other noncontact method). The tank fire control system must incorporate a laser rangefinder, shell velocity meter, ballistic computer and automatic time fuze setting device. Such systems have been developed and adopted for service.
This engagement method is an obvious asset related to the fire control system accuracy. When a time-fuze HE fragmentation shell is exploded in the effective killing zone, the total error (root-mean-square deviation) of fire control must not exceed 0.001 s (this accuracy level is highly improbable in near future). For a focused shell blasted at the point of prediction, a total error of up to 0.01 s will be acceptable.

Major Daljit picked up the field phone and requested for a short artillery barrage

It was almost 15 minutes before the first of 130 mm field guns roared somewhere from behind and the first shell landed almost 500 meters behind the concealed T-80 group

- 500 meter minus – 7 degree off to south – captain ,shouted Daljit as he watched the first shell land harmlessly though the eyes of his min UAV with infra red camera
- Correcting sir ,came the voice of the young artillery captain in charge of the 130 mm field gun battery assigned to his regiment
The gun roared again and this time the shell landed closer but still about 50 meters behind nut the orientation was more less where he wanted
- 50 minus and fire for effect – 5 minutes –captain.

On the other side of the border the Pakistani weapon locating radar went on alert and it will be ready to launch saturation strike to the Indian guns in less than 3 minutes

Lt colonel Niyamat Khan on the other side of the border ,looke through his glasses and did not like what he saw ,being caught in the middle of an arty duel with his precious tanks was not he was paid for . As he ordered his T-80 s to move out of the ditch, he in adherently gave the chance Major Daljit was looking for.

The T-80 s came out of ditch one by one and then started reversing and turning out of the arty range. The Indian 130 mm guns were blazing out as if no tomorrow till the Pakistani weapon locating radar got a fix and the Pakistani gunners too opened up forcing the Indian gunners to scoot and scoot fast .

- gunner target – tuna 1 and 3 – launch missile –now

The Indian field guns stopped firing and for a minute there was silence and then all hell broke loose

The two anti tank missiles launched and flashed forward towards the lead T-80s who have just finished reversing out of the protective ditch and trying to get out of the intense shelling.


All the T-90 s moved in unison rushing towards the international border but still not crossing it, discharging copious amount of smoke both intentional and unintentional.

The first and then the second missile hit the lead T-80 in less than 10 seconds .The Rest of the T-80 stopped in their tracks and turned outwards firing on the move.

For next 3 minutes it was utter chaos with close to 50 heavy tanks firing their main guns all the while moving to stay out of harms way.

Major Daljit took command effortlessly

- gunner tank
- identified
- fire
The main gun boomed and the first of the armor piercing shells or rather a high velocity tungsten dart rocketed out at over 800 meters per second towards the target hitting the ill fated Pakistani tank right at the junction of hull and turret blowing ,punching through the weakest section of frontal armor and killing everyone instantly

- sabot up
- target tank – 1345 meters – 215 –
- target identified
- fire
The T-90 rocked once again on its heavy duty hydro pneumatic suspension.
The T-80 Stopped in its track at that very moment and made a sharp 90 degree turn and then accelerated out the shell hitting it on the right track ,immobilizing it .But still capable of shooting back
-gunner -re engage
- sabot up
- fire
This time the T-80 had no chance to survive and blew up as the armor piercing round blew up its fuel tank. The hatch opened and the crew bailed out all of them in fire.

The engagement lasted all of 6 minutes. 16 T-80 s were destroyed 8 pf them in the first 2 minutes of the battle. 3 T-90 were also killed and 4 badly damaged 2 of them by anti tank mines. As the warring tanks disengaged to safer areas ,Major Manjit was already busy planning his evening movie and beer with the art captain . –all in a days work for an Indian soldier.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby aditp » 20 Apr 2009 15:33

The T-90 rocked once again on its heavy duty hydro pneumatic suspension.

:mrgreen: T-90S has torsion bar suspension. Arjun tank has Hydro Pneumatic suspension.

Nice scripting though.

How about pitting the 43rd armoured in their Arjun tanks against the Pukeland tank forces. Anyway, since the Arjuns are planned to be inducted by 2009, 124 of them should be available for battle testing.

See, you can create a plot wherein, T-72s / T-90s are not available for some reason, the T-55s are being routed by the Pukeland tank forces, and voila - the Arjun comes to the rescue. :wink:

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 20 Apr 2009 19:00

The favorable kill ration of Indian T-90 s did not come as a total surprise to Indian army ,they knew the advantage but not sure how it will translate to battle kills under actual combat conditions .The basic advantages of T-90S over T-80 were

1.Second generation thermal sight – giving higher chance of first shot first kill possibility in low light condition
2.Much better fire control system – translated to faster target acquisition and engaegment
3.More powerful ammunition (rounds and rockets) - newly designed specially for T-90. – better kill possibility at maximum engagement range
4.Easier to upgrade in the future. – included local software upgrade and more adoptability to net centric combat even in squadron level avoiding duplication of effort and target selection on real time basis
5.Better defense from kinetic rounds – by its composite multilayered armor
6.Armour optimized according to recommendations made by Scientific Research Institute of Steel.
7.Better engine reliability (temp range of stable performance: from -40C to +50C) –quicker acceleration and faster turn rate
8.Greater speed and maneurability (one of the highest power to weight ratios in the world for MBT)
9. Better reparability (Engine can be unmounted, repaired and placed back in 4 hours) –this factor was so far not yet tested but will be soon when larger and longer duration engagements will be played out over the dessert.

Major Daljit finished his debrief on the short engagement, and suddenly did not feel like the cold beer and movie routine. Three of his young friends were lying burnt and dead and more being rushed out on choppers to command hospital . As he walked slowly towards the Gurudwara in the vicinity of tank storage area , a cold resolve was forming in his mind , a desire to obliterate the enemy who was responsible for snuffing out so many young life just so a fanatical brand of illiterate religious leaders can impose their view on the world .

This he will never let happen –he was sure of that –at least not as long as he was alive

Up on the dark sky a pair of Jaguars roared by towards Pokhran firing range –they were maybe practicing night attack on tank formation thought Daljit as he removed his shoes and entered the place of worship .

He did not know how correct his guesses would turn out to be in near future .

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek.sharma » 21 Apr 2009 03:48


My last post was beginning of chapter 3: The Tiger Growls.
I will be changing time format to military standard for IST, rest of the times will be local and use AM/PM format.

Story Recap

Chapter 1: Hunted becomes the hunter, Day 1, Peshwar under Siege
Chapter 2: The Tiger Awakens, Day 2, Lt Amit and Lt. Punit on their way to covert operation inside TSP
Chapter 3: The Tiger Growls, Day 2, Indian PM declares TSP airspace blockade

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek.sharma » 21 Apr 2009 03:54

Chapter 3: The Tiger Growls: Continued


“How are we going to handle NATO forces operating near western border of Pakistan. They will certainly not like our blockade of air space that was available to them previously, even though it was covert most of the time?” asked PM Shastri.

“Of course first thing we need to do on inception of Operation Ahimsa is to inform Americans and NATO of the ceiling requirements for the aircraft flying through the Pakistani Airspace. As long as they remain above 20,000 ft above average sea level they will not be intercepted. West of Balochistan Plateau they are free to operate at any altitude. They should be safe enough.” replied Chief of Air Maruti Singh to PM Shastri and Foreign Minister JP Yadav on the phone.

PM Shastri replied, “Ok, I will talk to Obama and Yadav you talk to Brtis and Canadians after we initiate the blockade. But remember not to show all of our cards. If they ask how we are enforcing the blockade, tell them you are as much a scientist as much as they are a farmer. No details should leak out; this is our time to show the world our real patience.”

2215 HRS, Northern Command HQ at Udhampur

The Northern Command of Army is based in Udhampur and consists of three Corps, the XIV, XV, and XVI. All units are deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir with the exceptions of the 39th Infantry Division, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 16th Independent Armored Brigades..

XVI Corps is believed to be one of the largest corps in the world as it consists of following five divisions 10 Inf Div (Akhnoor),[41] 25 Inf Div (Rajauri), 39 Inf Div (Yol), artillery brigade, armoured brigade.

XV corps consists of 19 Inf Div (Baramulla), 28 Inf Div (Gurez, Bandipora District), artillery brigade and XIV consists of 3 Inf Div (Leh), 8 Mtn Div (Dras),[40] artillery brigade.

Lt. General Chauhan was feeling tired, but this was not the time to show. All of his staff has been busy since morning when call came in from Army Chief about the mobilization. Armored units were being prepped up to move to the border; the problem was how to hide them from spying eyes in the sky for the inevitable that will happen when PA will move its forces to be near Indian border regardless of warning by Indian PM.

His command center was bursting with all kind of radio chatter and a huge projector was throwing the image of his forces across the border. General Digvijay asked the operation officer “Pathan, how long till we meet out preliminary target of deployment?” “10 more hours’ sir” Pathan replied. “Well, it looks years of practice has brought us some good”. Lt. General Chauhan said to no one in particular and then he got back to thinking about how to hide a few of his assets for the ultimate goal of this campaign.

2216 HRS, Western Command HQ at Chandimandir

Western Command with HQ at Chandimandir looks after Punjab and Rajasthan States with the borderline at Bikaner and consists of II Corps in Ambala, Haryana (Strike Corps), IX Corps in Yol Camp, X Corps in Bhatinda, Punjab and XI Corps –in Jalandhar, Punjab.

Today Lt. General Singh was commanding the western theatre and he was not happy about moving 14 Rapid from Dehradun, 18 Rapid from Kota and 24 RAPID from Bikaner to Udhampur for a brand new task force, but then again he was to hold his position and not invade. Only consolation for him was that the honor of liberating the Pok has fell on his divisions and he will not stand in their way.

2221 HRS, South Western Command HQ, Jaipur, Rajasthan

Gnereal Prakaram was running out of options. His corps was supposed to be the first one to see action and he has to make the greatest show of it for all the prying eyes. His command consisted of 4 Armd Bde, 340 Mech Bde, 11 Inf Div (Ahmedabad), 12 Inf Division (Jodhpur) and they were to ready yesterday.

“What’s the latest deployment status”, he asked Suman, operations officer sitting at the computer. “Sir, 90% reached. Another hour and we will be ready to move out” replied Suman. “Hmm, good enough. Tell everybody to execute the Plan at 0030 hours. When morning comes up I want everybody to see the assets scattered from here to Jaisalmer and beyond to Pakistani border. Make sure you take care of the containers coming from Delhi Cannt railway station. We should look double of what we have got.”

2222 HRS, Southern Command with HQ at Pune

Southern Command with HQ at Pune (looking after Gujarat and Maharashtra States) consists of 31 Armd Div (Jhansi), 36 RAPID (Sagar), 54 Inf Div (Hyderabad/Secunderabad), Arty Bde, AD Bde, Engr Bde

More or less same scene was being repeated in Pune, but at least General Parijat did not have to worry about hiding assets. In fact he was supposed to show all his assets and make a lot of noise. “That shall not be an issue. A few shipping containers loaned from the Container corporation of India will make quite a juicy photo ops for the prying eyes” chuckled General Parijat.

2223 HRS, Navy Western Command, Mumbai

Admiral Prakaram was an experienced commander and was almost Captain Urvashi’s father’s age. But that didn’t stop them from impromptu discussion on what was to come. Captain Urvashi was first female captain in Navy and she was quite gung-ho about her destroyer.

In the mean time everybody was discussing what’s in store for navy. After air blockade next logical step was to blockade the sea route for TSP.

Admiral Prakaram started the meeting “Guys and Gals, tomorrow as soon as our satellites will notice movement of Pakistan’s forces towards Indian border, GOI will escalate the blockade to include the sea routes and that’s why I called all of you to this meeting. We have been preparing this for some years and now the time has come to prove our mettle. If all goes according to the plan and we will have a very busy year. All of you have details of what needs to be done and I will update of the next plan as soon as the orders come. Good hunting and make every shot count.” and so he continued.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Apr 2009 15:43

Army wants rail link to Laddakh

Taking a leaf out of China’s aggressive infrastructure buildup along the Indian border, the Army plans to build an all weather road, new tunnels and a railway line connecting the Ladakh region with the rest of the country. One of the main points for discussion at the high powered Army Commander’s Conference that kicked off in the capital on Monday was the speedy construction of the all weather road link, which will include a new tunnel at the 16,000 feet Bara-lacha Pass, connecting Himachal Pradesh’s Lahaul district with Ladakh. This will be in addition to the nine kilometer long tunnel being constructed at the Rohtang pass by the Border Roads Organisation to overcome the annual problem of closing off the crucial pass during heavy snow.

Alarmed at the rapid development of infrastructure across the border, the Army is also pushing for the construction of a rail link to the Ladakh region through Himachal. A senior officer confirmed that the need for an “all time connectivity” of the region with the rest of the country was one of the main points being discussed at the conference.

As reported by this newspaper, the Prime Minister’s Office has already given its approval to the proposal for a railway line to Leh via the Rohtang Pass and the Railway Ministry has been asked to carry out a feasibility survey of the Bilaspur-Leh route.

India has been beefing up infrastructure along the Chinese border in the Ladakh region and has reopened several forward landing bases for faster supply lines to troops posted in the difficult terrain. Over the past year, the Daulat Beg Oldi and Fukche airfields in eastern Ladakh have been reopened and the Air Force is now working to open the Neoma advanced landing ground.


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby aditp » 21 Apr 2009 16:26

:idea: Vivek, looks like Gen Kapoor is reading ur scenarios with interest.

PS please post the next installment..

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Apr 2009 17:08

DAY 5 + 0840 HRS

The droning noise and the vibrations of the turboprops were monotonous and tiring when someone is exposed to it for hours on end. For the twelve crew members on board the Indian Naval IL-38 ASW aircraft flying over the waters of the Malacca strait, it had been tiring enough despite their exposure to it over the course of the careers. The aircraft was flying at a low enough altitude that the spotters inside the cabin were busy with their binoculars as they checked the few fishing vessels and other merchant ships that had no option but to traverse the strait even during wartime.

With the morning sun up by now, the flying weather was beautiful. The skies were not more than one tenth clouds against an otherwise clean blue sky and the waters below were reflecting the same. From this distance the small islands and the Malaysian coastline were mere green blurs against a blue watery horizon. But for all that, there were signs of trouble both above and below the crystal clear surface of the water...

“We have inbounds.” The port spotter said over the intercom.

“Friendly?” the pilot asked even as he peered down the side cockpit window to see what the spotter saw.

“Negative. Neutral...two Sukhoi-30s...RMAF markings.” The spotter said before lowering his binoculars when he no longer needed them to see his target. Sure enough, the two Malaysian SU-30MKMs flying in close formation flew by the lumbering Indian IL-38. Both sides managed to take a good look at each other in those few seconds...

“Okay, I have visual. Confirmed RMAF markings. Good call.” The co-pilot said.

“What are they doing?” the Flight Engineer asked from behind the two pilots.
“Maintaining situational awareness. They know this place is going to blow up anytime now...”

“Two more visuals...” the starboard spotter shouted a few minutes later: “Long range...single engine high altitude contrails inbound from the west. Possible Indonesian F-16s...standby...”

“It’s getting real crowded over here now...” the co-pilot said.

“Yeah. Soon the Singapore jets will start piling in. We better call in additional support of our own.” The pilot said before he changed frequencies and contacted ANC Operations Centre.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Apr 2009 17:09

DAY 5 + 0850 HRS

The two SU-27s finished refueling from the loitering H-6U airborne tanker aircraft and then climbed away from the refueling altitude and speed back to cruise altitude and speed even as they left pairs of white contrails against the bright blue sky. The H-6U tanker changed course and began its movement back towards Hainan even as another tanker prepared to lift off the runway at the mainland airbase...

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Mihir.D » 21 Apr 2009 18:04


Thats too less. We need a couple of big ones..............pls.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 Apr 2009 18:16

DAY 5 + 0930 HRS

One of the side-effects of moving further and further eastwards beyond the LAC was made clear to Captain Kongara when his request for fixed wing air support was denied by higher command an hour ago when he had gone over the latest plans. Even though his men on the ground were busy snatching the ground from the Chinese, the skies above were still under partial control of the Chinese S-300s further east near the Qara-Tagh La. Captain Kongara looked above to see the murky grayish skies above Laddakh that were the norm and then put the thought behind him. That was when the sounds and the smells of the battlefield came back to him...

“Where the hell is Group BLUE Recon? They were supposed to be here an hour ago!” the Battalion commander shouted into his R/T set even as people from his staff were running around. Captain Kongara walked past the lines of BMPs parked in the snow. These vehicles were from the Battalion Group RED force and were at the personal disposition of the Battalion Commander. Kongara noticed that he was walking through the slushy wet mud and snow made by the tracks of the BMPs and it made walking somewhat difficult. It was a problem they were being forced to solve on the move. The tracks on the BMPs were getting worn out because of this slush, and while the advancing elements of the Battalion could go over new ground easily, the ones coming up behind were not so lucky since they had to travel over this wet slush. Quite a few vehicles had gotten bogged down that way...

Of course the problem was restricted only to the 1ST Battalion because of the terrain they were on. The 4TH Battalion to the southeast was doing much better as they were rolling over hard terrain and against relatively light opposition. 3RD Battalion to the northwest was also on better terrain since they were basically using the same terrain that the Chinese T-99s had taken during their drive on DBO a few days ago. But the opposition in that sector had been very tough. 3RD Battalion advance had been halted in its tracks against the force of the remaining elements of the Chinese armor and infantry units from the relatively intact Chinese Infantry Division. There had been two such Divisions present. One had been mauled by the combined force of 1ST and 4TH Battalion forces under Colonel Sudarshan. The other had stopped 3RD Battalion forces and the Gurkha Battalions from Birgadier Adesara’s Brigade.

This could not be accepted. The overall situation was somewhat unbalanced as far as the Indian advance was concerned. Basically speaking, there had been two sectors of the advance. The southern sector had been opened up but the northern sector was still intact. So now 3RD Battalion was going to renew its advance against the Chinese positions head on while Colonel Sudarshan had dispatched the 1ST Battalion to conduct a hook maneuver from the south towards the northeast to get behind the Chinese positions and then cut off the remaining Chinese forces from the incoming reinforcements. Meanwhile the 4TH Battalion was supposed to be engaging the enemy in a free rolling advance into the Aksai chin in the general direction east by southeast. Of course, no plans ever survive contact with the enemy...

Captain Kongara walked into the tent that was the Battalion HQ at the moment. The tent was fluttering in the crisp cold wind of the Laddakh Mountains and the sounds of the wind howling and the tent cloth fluttering were loud enough that one had to speak loudly to be heard. On top of that there was the chaos inside the tent as everything seemed to be happening at once. And in the background the falling artillery and gunfire could be heard as muffled but heavy thumps that caused one’s heart to miss a beat. Kongara looked around and then walked over to a colleague from the Battalion staff who had been standing by a map table...

“Don’t even ask me how the advance is going, all right?” the Battalion Operations officer said even before Kongara could say a word. The returning smile was received both men before Kongara finally spoke: “I take it that we are running into some problems?”

“You don’t know the half of it. Group BLUE ran into an ambush as of an hour ago. Four commie T-99s in dug in positions behind this large turn on the Chip-Chap River here...” the BO pointed on the map as Kongara walked over. “They lost three BMP-2s of the lead platoon within seconds. The NAMICAs of the anti-tank platoon nailed the four T-99s in the minutes afterwards but lost one vehicle in the process because of the close range engagement. Now they are being engaged by infantry and are bogged down. We just heard that two more vehicles have been immobilized by rocket fire from the Chinese positions.”

“They are not cooperating with our plans now, are they?” Kongara said dryly as both men considered the pins on the map. The BO grunted in grim amusement before speaking: “No they are not.”

“So what’s the plan now?” Kongara asked.

“We will have to find another breach point around this hornet’s nest here. Problem is, along this section of the water stream, you have hills on both sides that are unsuited for vehicles and the Chinese blocking the narrow valley between them that is suited for vehicles. But if we punch through, we reach the main Chip-Chap river plains and hence cut off the Chinese Division to the west from their reinforcement and supplies coming in from the east. We only have an hour or two to break through before the Chinese reinforcements pour in and then its game over for our advance...” the BO said even as he went over the latest dispatches. He continued a second later:

“So Group BLUE is bogged down and trying to disengage. Group GREEN and RED are available. In addition, we have helicopter gunship support from 199HU LCHs. The 7TH Punjab units will take the hilly terrain around the river while we fight through using our tanks. The Colonel thinks that the only way for us at the moment is a head on attack to break through. We just don’t have the time to find an alternate route. What’s your force’s readiness status?”

“Ready. We are good to go. What’s the jump off time?” Kongara asked. The Battalion Operations officer looked at his watch and then back at Kongara.

“Next fifteen to twenty minutes. Group GREEN and RED are going to beef up BLUE and then advance as a steel fist into the enemy. If we succeed, we could have this Chinese Division on its knees before sundown today...”

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 22 Apr 2009 19:36


Like all female officer in the Indian armed forces Captain Urvasi never stopped trying to prove she is as good as the guys even after nearly ten years meritious service and now commanding one of the best state of the art destroyers of the navy .She obtained a degree in electronics and communication engineering fro IIT Kanpur after being commissioned in the navy through the usual route . Her problems were not just her good looks which she managed to hide very effectively behind shapeless uniform and dark glasses and an excessively authoritative behavior towards her sub ordinates.

But what was behind her meteoric rise was not her looks or rough behavior but a razor sharp intellect that allowed her superb situational awareness in a complex environment and her deep grasp of all things technical particularly the electronic guidance package of modern missiles and radars and digital control fo gas turbine engines . She was one of the very few in the navy to boast this dual advantage and naturally always landed with the latest technology equipped systems be a s the officer responsible for induction of BrahMos into Delhi class or the Bark missile systems . She did not like submarine life and as such never offred to volunteer for the scorpenes but helped her friends in an informal way whenever they landed up with an unusual control or guidance problem.

This time her task forces objective was not clearly defined ,atleast no yet but she has been ordered to proceed with her force of destroyers and frigates al the very best nay had Kolkata class and shivalik class with a pair of scorpenes to northern Arabian sea designated patrol area and watch Pakistani shipping but do nothing for the time being .Time for action will come later ,she was told by her commanding officer .

The orange sun bathed her in a golden glow as she watched the first of the three missile boats cleared the channel and entered the open sea of Indian continental shelf .The scorpenes followed and then submerged. Her ship started moving out slowly following the frigates through the highly mined entry exit channel to Mumbai naval base second only in importance to Karwar in Karnataka .

aimed at adding a new dimension to the country’s naval warfare, India yesterday launched an indigenous warship under the Project 15 Alpha with enhanced stealth features and land-attack capabilities. Called the INS Kolkata, the ship belongs to the destroyer class and is the first of three ships presently under construction at the Mazagon Dock here. The ship is scheduled to join the Navy in 2010.

"Project 15 A, although conceived as a follow-on of the earlier Delhi class will have major advances in its weapons and sensors ad will be technologically far more superior," Mazagon Dock CMD Rear Admiral SKK Krishnan said. Project 15-A ships are follow-on ships of the successful Project 15 destroyers including INS Delhi, INS Mysore and INS Mumbai, which form the frontline combatants of the Indian Navy

Armed with supersonic BrahMos cruise missiles, INS Kolkata is the l argest and most lethal multi-role destroyer of the Indian Navy. It will be the first of Project 15 Alpha. Though of the Delhi class, it has been modified extensively to add stealth.

As Roopa Byce, wife of Vice-Admiral Sangram Singh Byce, Flag Officer Commanding-In-Chief of the Western Naval Command, pressed a button on Thursday, the warship slid down the slipway of the Mazagon Dock into the Arabian Sea to the tune of Sare jehan se achchha.

Ms. Byce named the destroyer, resplendent in colourful buntings, Kolkata.

The destroyer's keel was laid in September 2003. It is likely to be commissioned in the Navy in 2010. Two more Kolkata class vessels will be inducted in the subsequent two years. The Kolkata has 16 BrahMos launchers ? eight on each side.

The destroyer is likely to get long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM). The Mazagon Dock has not named the missile but indicated that it is being "co-developed" by the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

Vertical launch system

A defence source said the destroyer might have a 24-cell vertical launch system for SAMs in its forward and aft areas, making it a total of 48. Four AK-630 rapid-fire guns would back the missiles. The ship will have a gun for surface targets. There are also twin-tube torpedo launchers and anti-submarine rocket launchers.

Besides a multi-function radar system, the destroyer has the Humsa-NG hull mounted sonar and a Nagin active towed array sonar.

Like the Delhi class, Kolkata will be able to operate two multi-role helicopters.

All sensors and weapons are integrated in a state-of-the-art system; the networking of the weapons and censors will enable the warship to combat multi-threats in different dimensions simultaneously.

INS Kolkata's sides are covered and rounded, making detection difficult. All missile launchers and bases of the superstructure are covered for the same reason. A four reversible gas turbine propulsion system will afford the warship to cruise in excess of 30 knots.

Chief of the Army Staff Gen. J.J. Singh, who was the chief guest, stressed the need for an advanced and strong navy in the emerging geo-political scenario.

In the welcome address, Vice-Admiral S.S.K. Krishnan, Chairman and Managing Director of the Mazagon Dock, said the shipyard was building three lines of warships for the Navy

Captain Urvasi remembered the media reports and speculation about this new class of ship about 4 years back when Kolkata was launched but not even the smartest reporter had a clue about its true capability ar the fact that it was indeed euiped with nuclear tipped land attack missiles (yet to be named ) a modified version of brahmos with hypersonic speed . Whiel it will be patrolling the shores of Pakistan on conventional role its real role will be to carry out a devastating second strike should the need arise from a quarter no one expected .

She also happened to be almost completely stealthy to ship and shore radars beyond a specified range (classified ) so in fact invincible from other ships and shore .Her vulnerability was from air particularly from P3 orions and that is why she would always sail within the protective envelope of Vikramaditya even when operating independently .

The deck vibration increased as the turbines increased speed and the massive reduction gear converted that to additional torque . The nearly 7000 ton ship accelerated smoothly out of the channel and into open sea and blended into the waves effortlessly

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby ashdivay » 23 Apr 2009 02:25

vivek_ahuja wrote:“You don’t know the half of it. Group BLUE ran into an ambush as of an hour ago. Four commie T-99s in dug in positions behind this large turn on the Chip-Chap River here...” the BO pointed on the map as Kongara walked over. “They lost three BMP-2s of the lead platoon within seconds. The NAMICAs of the anti-tank platoon nailed the four T-99s in the minutes afterwards but lost one vehicle in the process because of the close range engagement. Now they are being engaged by infantry and are bogged down. We just heard that two more vehicles have been immobilized by rocket fire from the Chinese positions.”

video for above comming soon.
Watch for it.
also if anyones got any specific armour engagment they wanna see from this or past scenarios let me know .

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 23 Apr 2009 13:01


Once the ship has entered open seas it was time for captain Urvasi to head for the combat information centre or ops room as called by the navy.The two sea kings have already lifted off the heli deck and now fast approaching their respective patrol zones . The four gas turbines effortlessly propelled the sleek ship to speeds in excess of 30 knots much in excess in fact . Most of her patrol duration she will move near maximum speed (fuel economy be damned thought Urvasi as she intended to make herself a very difficult target for the Pakistani agostas if some how they manage to break the outer underwater screen provided by the scorpenes .

Chennai looked good and sexy thought her captain but she also knew the lethal punch that the ship can generate at a moments notice . Compared to earler generation of destryers like Ranvir and Ranjit ,Chennai It is only a little heavier, longer and wider than . Yet, it has four times the number of anti-ship missiles all of them the latest variation of Brahmos -- its main armament -- as well as equipment that give it a generational jump in electronic warfare (EW) abilities. There is additional space for fuel, food and water to enable it to operate greater distances without touching base.

In simple terms, platforms like Chennais "sustainability multiplied by reach will help effectively establish the country's presence in the Indian Ocean," said Commodore C. Irani , deputy director of the Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses. Executive Officer Commander S.S. Randhawa pointed out that the task of linking sensors from various manufacturers into a coherent display and action sequence is an awe-inspiring achievement. "This enormous steel fortress is also a precision war machine," he says. Thousands of tonnes of special-strength steel, hundreds of thousands of miles of cable, transducers, transistors, valves and pistons, located in 437 compartments of various sizes, are all integrated into a platform which can launch a volley of missiles and, with some luck, send a dozen ships to Davy Jones' locker in a matter of minutes .

This T-Rex of the seas has powerful enemies -- missiles and torpedoes. They are most effectively tackled by destroying their launch 'platforms' -- submarines and aircraft. The outer defensive screen of Chennai must prevent intruders from coming within 300 km of the ship. This distance is defined in a sense by Pakistan's Harpoon missiles which can be launched from submerged submarines or P3C Orion aircraft and have a range of 110 km.

The outermost screen is provided by two Sea King 42B helicopters, equipped with a radar, dipping sonar, British-made Sea Eagle missiles and depth bombs. These helicopters can fly up to 400 km around Delhi and have electronic data links to download what they see or hear to the combat information centre in the ops room.

Targets under water are tracked by sonar, a device which sends out sound waves that rebound off the metallic hulls of enemy ships or submarines. This is not as simple as its sounds: temperature, salinity, currents and pressure alter the speed and direction of the returning sound wave. In addition, as in radar, other sounds clutter the readings. Processing the signals to filter these out and give the accurate range and bearing of the hostile intruder requires sophisticated software, while the accuracy of the readings themselves requires hardware of great sensitivity. The Navy and the DRDO have designed and engineered Chennais sonar, based on the success of their earlier apsoh system. The BEL-manufactured unit is called HUMVAAD. It has one sensor mounted on the hull to detect submarines near the surface and another towed, going down deeper to ensure that no vessel is lurking in depths where varying salinity distorts the sonar beam. Once detected, submarines are immediately attacked by anti-submarine rockets within a range of 5 km, and beyond that by torpedoes, mounted on a quintuple launcher in the middle of the ship.

Incoming aircraft or ships are also picked up by a BEL-made early warning radar and then tracked on planar-array radar, which provides information on the location of a target in three-dimensional form. This radar can track multiple targets, be they aircraft or missiles and identify the most threatening ones. As the object comes closer, it is "illuminated" or locked on by another radar on which rides a Barak surface-to-air missile that is fired from an automatic launcher at the front and the back of the ship. Missiles pop out from two launchers, each with a 24-unit carousel, and are fired automatically. The warship's designators can lock on to 18 targets at a time and engage the eight most threatening ones simultaneously.

The operations room looked more like a space launch complex than a combat centre thought Urvashi as she went to each of the console operators and confirmed all systems and sensors are performing as they should before committing the ship to combat /interception mode . Both the radar displays and sonar screens were for the moment clear .The radar showed usual commercial traffic coming in and out of Mumbai airport and the sonar showed only the two escorting scorpenes spreading out in a v formation ahead of the ship before initiating their respective circular search and sanitize pattern . The engine display showed all the turbines are running normal and prop rpm maintained at 95 rpm which is about 85% of max output of the 64 MW turbines two which powered each propeller.

She walked over slowly to the sat terminal where the latest extra high resolution ocean images from ocean sat 2 and 4 were being downloaded .The images were about 3 hours old and for Urvashi that was good enough for the time being . Most were commercial shipping and local fishing boats but as she moves farther north she expected more contact with naval ships of USN and may be some very foolish Pakistani navy ship who will dare challenge the might of INS Chennai.
She had the operational mandate to search any ship outside Pakistani territorial waters which in her opinion may be carrying contraband and take any action to protect the ship and her crews. As far as Captain Urvasi was concerned it gave her just the right amount of lee way to sink any Pakistani warship she would come across whenever she felt it is “threat” to Chennai.

But before all that she has sail into the “envelope “ of Vikramaditya now sailing in north Arabian sea . She would stay within a 400 km radius of Vick and start her operations at random .

A fast moving dot appeared out of north western sky .The air intercept officer called out over the PA
- Unidentified aircraft -325 –speed 1200 km/hr –altitude – 200 ft
The young Lt commander on air defense duty acted quickly as Urvasi moved near his display .
-request permission to activate air defenses captain
- permission granted –do we have IFF confirmation on incoming
- no captain – possible F-16 /Mig 29 – We don’t know yet –the flight profile is surely not friendly .
Up on the deck a pair of Barak missiles turned on their launcher as their dedicated tracking radar activated
- contact the aircraft and warn him off
- Sure captain – unidentified aircraft -this is Indian navy ship Chennai –you are entering restricted airspace – turn back immediately or you will be fired upon –over
- Chennai – relax – this is flight sierra orange from Vick – having IFF problem – was investigating a contact –over
Urvasi was now real mad ,how can they allow an aircraft to fly in so close without operational IFF ,she decided to personally take this up with the rear admiral commanding Vikramaditya at earliest opportunity
- target 40 km –speed 1200 – altitude 100 meters
-siera orange – you are still un identified and be treated as hostile if you enter active air defense zone –change heading to 015 and leave the area immediately .
Commaander get in touch with Vick and report this immediately –thundered the captain of INS Chennai as she strolled out of the ops room and into the engine room below.
Far above her the lone Mig 29 banked sharply into a new course .The young Lt commander ,Never even knowing how close to sure death was .
The day for her has just begun.


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby gauravjkale » 23 Apr 2009 14:02

Keep them comming Shankar..

though i thought nowadays radars were capable of identifying the aircrafts with or without IFF.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 23 Apr 2009 15:36

Identification Friend or Foe [IFF] procedures are the primary positive means of aircraft identification in Air Defense operations. Proper use of IFF procedures facilitates rapid engagement of enemy aircraft, conserves Air Defense assets, and reduces risk to friendly aircraft. Any time a plane flies, pilots put a code into their IFF system which others can identify as a friendly aircraft.

Combat Identification is the process of attaining an accurate characterization of detected objects in the battle space to the extent that a high confidence, timely application of tactical options, and weapons resources can occur. Depending on the situation and the tactical decisions that must be made, this characterization will be at least, but may not be limited to, "friend," "enemy," or "neutral." Combat identification functions encompass cooperative and non-cooperative identification capabilities.

Reliable and secure positive identification (ID) systems are essential elements of battle management in the naval environment. In addition to distinguishing friend from foe for weapons employment, the Navy requires secure, jam resistant Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems for battle group air defense management and air traffic control. Identification is multifaceted and includes information received from several sensors (both cooperative and non-cooperative systems).

In short in a combat situation if a friendly aircraft is not having a functional IFF transponder and approaches a ship like Delhi/Kolkata class the chances are it will be shot down by friendly fire is indeed very very high . You can make out they type of an incoming aircraft from her speed and flying profile but all that can be mimicked quite easily by a hostile aircraft at least very closely .Add to it the small time window to launch a missile available to the defensing ship when facing a low level supersonic aircraft . Remember Iran Air incident when the air bus was shot down by us navy

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 23 Apr 2009 15:45

n Iran Air passenger plane, Flight 655, was shot down by the U.S.S. Vincennes--a U.S. Navy warship--killing all 290 passengers and crew as the plane flew over the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf. Stationed in the Gulf during the Iran-Iraq war, U.S. presence was intended to escort and defend Kuwait oil tankers registered under the U.S. flag. The crew of the Vincennes, in battle with gunboats of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that were harassing the passing oil tankers at the time, apparently misidentified the plane as an Iranian F-14 fighter. Tracking the plane's approach, the Vincennes radioed repeated warnings to the Iran Air plane not to approach. When it became obvious that the crew of the plane would not concede, the Vincennes fired two surface-to-air missiles, exploding the plane. The reason for Rogers moving the Vincennes so far away from his ordered post? The warship was purportedly off to defend its helicopter, which had been deployed--under orders from fleet headquarters--on a reconnaissance mission, to check out the group of gunboats hovering further north. Anti-aircraft rounds from one or more of the gunboats were fired, giving Rogers reason to approach; when the Vincennes arrived on the scene, lookouts reported that a few of the gunboats were headed towards the ship. It remains unclear whether this was actually the case: the gunboats likely couldn't see the Vincennes, with their low profiles and amidst the sandy haze hovering over the gulf; also, the gunboats were within Iranian territorial waters--firing on them here would be a breach of international law.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what Rogers decided to do. It was in the midst of this gunfire that Flight 655 took off, and was (as is routine) identified initially as a hostile aircraft by the Vincennes' AEGIS monitoring system. The first person to try to establish the plane's identity was Petty Officer Andrew Anderson, who sent out the electronic query, "Identify, Friend or Foe?" The automated response from Flight 655 came back as "commair"--a commercial airliner. Anderson tried to confirm this, but in checking navy listings of scheduled flights over the Gulf, Anderson apparently missed Flight 655, possibly confused by the Gulf's four different time zones. The Vincennes sent out the first of four warnings over the military emergency channel for the plane to change its course. Three subsequent warnings were sent out over the civilian emergency channel as well, although none were broadcast over air traffic control--despite the Vincennes having the capability. It is speculated that inside the cockpit of Flight 655, all channels were in use communicating with ground control, since the plane had just taken off. When Anderson again sent out the "Identify, Friend or Foe?" query, he received a different response: military aircraft. Rogers' decision to fire was made while under the impression that the query was correct--in fact, Anderson had forgotten to reset the system after the first query, and the response he received was probably from a fighter plane on the runway back at Bandar Abbas. Rogers held that, at the time that he ordered for the crew to fire, the plane was descending and rapidly approaching--in fact, Flight 655 was actually ascending, and its speed was holding steady.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby prabir » 23 Apr 2009 17:02

I think some of the Indo-Pak scenarios may be for real. It is possible that US collaborates with India to stabilize Pakistan by allowing moderates to re-gain control of the country from medieval Taliban.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby ashdivay » 23 Apr 2009 18:30


I made movie for above scen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kt9zUkKB_A
please view comment and rate.
Thank you

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 24 Apr 2009 16:55


Captain Imran like tea and like it hot. As he finished his 7th cup of the day it was time to get a news update from Karachi , his home base and also home town. When out on patrol he always worried about the safety of his wife and two daughters. The city was now infested with fanatic Taliban who would try to enforce medieval type laws whenever they can which included public flogging and executions at the slightest pretext .All they were doing was in fact terrorizing the general population to unquestioned obedience to their dictates . His family though living in highly protected naval base residential area could not but avoid go into the city and there lay the unspoken danger.

It was time to get daily update from Karachi ,the only time his state of the art underwater fighting machine is truly vulnerable .

- xo I have the con
- captain has the con
- make periscope depth – make climb angle 5 degree
- coming up to periscope depth – angle on plane 5 degree
The deck canted upwards gently as the diving planes moved on hydraulic actuators changed position smoothly pushed the nose of the ship up .
The digital depth guage showed 32 ft and the submarine leveled out . At the depth the effect of rough sea top side could be clearly felt inside
- up periscope –quick sweep xo
The periscope moved out of its cylinder smoothly and silently with the first officer going for a quick 7 second scan
- all clear captain . A high definition digital camera recorded the scan on a dedicated memory stick to be viewed again later
- up com antenna
- com antenna up – receiving
- down periscope
- message received – com antenna down
make depth 150 ft – dive angle 15 degree – change to heading 085 –XO take the con

The message for Pakistani naval head quarters was brief and to the point


Captain Imran wiped his brows ,it was hot and damp in side the air conditioned control room . He knew the basic capability of Chennai and also aware even if makes successful strike the chances of him making back to base in one piece is small mainly because of the enemy aircraft the 142 and 38 s which patrol the Arabian sea 24x7.

But like a true professional he ordered a search grid to be set up around the expected location of the Indian task force and torpedoes loaded. As he chalked out an attack plan ,he forgot one element in the entire equation –the Phalcons .

He did not even know the traditional rules of under sea engagement and decade old naval tactics are no longer valid .The arrival of IAF Phalcons have changed them forever .Surprise will never be his


- Sir – better have a look at this
- What is it squadron leader asked group captain Pandey as he came out of the toilet .
- Sir looks like we have surface to sat communication in burst mode from some where in north Arabian sea grid sector bravo delta
- Can you get an exact fix
- Yes sir –take a few minutes
- Is the transmission encrypted
- Yes sir –looks like navy type message –forwarding the recorded message to delhi for de encryptation
- Why your comp no good
- Not that sir but I no navy guy
- Ok go ahead –and confirm the surface contact position pronto too.
- We have a no fly violation – two mirage taking off from Karachi
- Inform air force sector commander and also alert the patrolling aircraft for a snap intercept
- Ocean star flight – sea gull one – make course 280-speed 1400 – intercept mission –possible military aircraft north west of Karachi – you are not weapons free yet –over
- Sea gull one –ocean star one –on our way

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Nitesh » 24 Apr 2009 17:20

he forgot one element in the entire equation –the Phalcons .

make killing no mercy to them :evil: :evil:

- We have a no fly violation – two mirage taking off from Karachi

Time to teach a lesson asap

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby sunny_s » 24 Apr 2009 20:12

Shankar da really falling short of words to complement your writting,ur writting skills really pumps in the JOSH
waiting for vivek sharma ji & vivek sir to also join the party,time to play with Big boys toys :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 25 Apr 2009 15:55


Squadron leader Deshmukh looked at his wing man faithfully following him exactly 200 meters behind and 30 meters higher . The intercept alert came form Phalcon came on just then quickly followed by the data feed from its long range search radar . His powerful Zhuk electronic scanning radar was still on passive mode and intended to keep it that way for as long as possible . As he entered the target data from Phalocn the mission computer quickly calculated and displayed the best intercept speed and altitude and also the correct most fuel efficient power setting to make that intercept very soon it will also tell him the correct altitude and attitude to launch the missiles depending on which missile he will be using and optimum launch speed .

On his head up display a small black arrow appeared pointing to a particular position in space, the computer told him to increase speed to 1350 kmph and change course to 067.5
And make altitude 7150 meters achievable at power setting of 93.5 percent maximum military power .

He leaned forward and engaged the auto pilot linked to mission computer . The fulcrum came alive as the full authority digitally controlled engines spooled up with near smoke less exhaust exactly as per mission computers dicate and the wings dipped and nos tipped up to do the necessary course and intercept altitude correction .

The advanced GPS monitor showed distance to target 134.6 km and quickly dropping as the Mig 35 pushed by the power generated in the twin RD 33 K thrust vectoring engines .The fuel consumption increased to by almost 12.5 % . Indiacted air speed touched 1350 kmph and the engines spooled down gently pushing out enough power to maintain the computer dicated air speed to engagement .

-sea gull one –ocean star one – do you copy –over
-ocean start one –sea gull one –of course we do – go ahead
- distance to target aircrafts 70 km –request weapon free and permission to go active
- you can go active in 60 seconds – but you are not weapons free –repeat not weapons free –visual confirmation mandatory

Deshmukh clicked of the radio and muttered a silent curse against the top shot guys who frame these rules of engagement sitting in air conditioned comfort may be watching a movie with their family or whoever .

This meant he will not be able to use his R-77 and have to really take out the mirages the hard old fashioned way

-ovean start two-one – visual identification mandatory – going active – keep my tail clear
- will do lead

Deshmukh deselected the auto pilot and went full reheat . The fulcrum screeched forward and up as he pulled the nose to maximum angle of attack to gain quick altitude then leveled off at 8000 meters. Distance to target 56 km –the radr warning receiver bleeped intermittently –the enemy have marked him too –he cliked on the radar icon and the radar screen came alive showing two Mirage V in V formation trying to fly away at right angle to his intercept course .Even as he made the small course correction the two mirages turned inwards and accelerated directly towards him with a relative closing speed of more than 2000 km/he

Ok guys –if this is the way you want it thought Deshmukh as he flicked up the missile arming switch and contacted Phalcon

-sea gull one –ocean start – we are lit –mirage V – request weapon free
- Copy that ocean star – you are weapons free –repeat weapons free on all targets – take them out

Deshmukh watched the target merge into the aiming cursor –the shoot prompt came up almost immediately – distance to target 36 km and closing fast – fire guard off – squeeze once –one R73 off –correct heading –squeeze once more – second R-73 out and tracking –break off break off as the Mirages launched a pair of side winders each –dehsmukh no time to see your handiwork – dive dive and turn to starboard –speed brake on – level out speed brake off –full power –climb to launch altitude

He need not have bothered – at that range the R-73 just could not miss .Both the missiles
Found their mark in a true one shot one kill claim of their Russian manufacturer Vympel. Worlds best close engagement missiles proved once again they are indeed the best.

-Splash two Mirage – ocean star one to sea gull one –do you confirm
- We confirm, came in the almost jubilant voice of air battle commander as he tracked both the mirages spiraling down to their destruction . The attack was so sudden and vicious none of the Pakistani pilots could eject as the both mirages their guts torn out smashed into ground in a pool of dust and black smoke.

Based on the MiG-29M OTV, MiG-35 (Nato reporting name Fulcrum F), is equipped with advanced avionic suite comprising of a modern glass cockpit designed with three 6x8 inch flat-panel LCDs and full HOTAS controls, digital map, helmet-mounted sight. The latest Zhuk-AE active electronically scanning array (AESA) radar is mounted on this aircraft. This radar was developed with modular approach, enabling upgrading existing Zhuk ME/MSE radars, into the phased array equipped MFE/MSFE standard, deployed in MiG-29/Su-27 platforms. he MiG-35 is fitted with western standard Mil-1553 bus and advanced Russian made weaponry. Reliability and serviceability have been improved, reducing operating cost and improving serviceability by 2.5 times (compared to older MiG-29s). MiG-35 is equipped with an optronic target tracker, identical to the system used on the Su-30MKI. For precision air-to-ground attack missions, the aircraft can be equipped with a conformal electro-optical targeting module, installed under the right air intake. The aircraft is equipped with radar warning, electro-optical missile launch warning and laser warning sensors, and integral active self protection (jamming, chaff and flare) as part of the integral self-defense system. The aircraft has four additional hardpoints and can haul an external payload in excess of six tons. The aircraft is powered by two RD-33 MK engines digitally controlled smokeless engines, producing 9000kgf of thrust each. This type is an improved and uprated version of the standard RD33 engine. The engine was developed to power the carrier based MiG-29K and modernized version MiG-29M/M2. The prototype demonstrated in Bangalore did not have thrust vector exhausts, but, according to the manufacturer, these can be installed in production a

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Nitesh » 25 Apr 2009 18:44

Shankar wrote:The advanced GPS monitor

No GLONASS Shankarosky :!: :evil:
AoA the killing starts what is happening to the sub?

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek_ahuja » 25 Apr 2009 19:31

DAY 5 + 0940 HRS

“Approaching drop five in fifteen seconds...” the pilot confirmed to the ASW Tactical Coordinator (TC) on board the IL-38. The TC in turn nodded to the sonar console operators to standby.

“Drop in Five...four...three...two...one...drop!” the pilot said over the intercom as the aircraft slightly vibrated and yet another sonobuoy fell clear off the IL-38 and into the waters of the Malacca Strait. The sonar operators immediately noted the splash in the water and then the sonobuoy passive detections. Thirty seconds later the chief sonar operator confirmed the same to the TC:
“Sonobuoy-Five is passive...”

As the ASW crew in the cabin of the IL-38 went back to analyzing the data streaming in from the newly deployed sonobuoy and corroborating it with the information coming in from the previously deployed sonobuoys, the flight crew up front pulled the IL-38 clear from the drop profile and leveled out sufficiently high that fuel could be conserved until a reason for going back down to sea level was confirmed.

While the search for the Chinese Submarines in the strait was proving frustrating and tedious, the skies above were getting crowded. The Malacca strait is around seventy five kilometers in width on average, separating Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia. Then there is Singapore to the south near the southern entry point to the strait and Myanmar and India at the northern ones. At the moment each country’s air forces were patrolling the skies above as they protected their own shipping assets. All other nations had pulled their shipping out of the straits a week ago.

On the Indian side, two Mig-29K Naval Air Defense Fighters had departed the Andaman Islands to provide cover for the lone IL-38 patrolling the southern sectors of the strait in search of PLAN submarine threats. The Singapore G550 AEW aircraft had also been detected to the south by the IL-38s RWRs. All other aircraft had been active on radars given the lack of AEW aircraft. Currently, the only AEW aircraft flying was the Phalcon system on the Singapore G550, monitoring their airspace for intrusion. This particular aircraft had detected the inbound Chinese Flankers as they had finished their in-flight refueling operations over the South China Sea some time ago. Since then it had also detected the presence of the sole Indian IL-38 flying in the straits and the course being taken by the two SU-27s towards the region...

The problem was that the Singaporeans could not very well pass that information to the Indians. At least they could not be seen to given the volatile situation. If they were detected as giving tactical information to the Indians on the Chinese threats in the region then that would be taken as an act of war by Beijing. So for the moment the RSAF airborne radar operators watched in silence as the SU-27s began their approach into the Malacca Strait...

“Wait! You see that?” one of the sonar operators said over the intercom to a colleague sitting on a similar console. The TC took note and walked over behind the two operators: “What do you have?”

“Brief sonar contact here...” the operator pointed on the digital map overlay. “It was right at the edge of the range for S-5.”
“Check the SAR display for surface contacts!” the TC ordered the other operator.
“Checking...clear. No surface contacts in that sector.”

“Okay.” The TC brought his intercom mouthpiece closer to his mouth as he spoke:
“All right people, we have a possible submerged contact on bearing three-one-five. Close inbound. This could be what we are looking for. Prepare drop S-6 through S-10. MAD operators stand by.”

Moments later the cabin tilted slightly as the flight crew adjusted flight heading towards the target and then began their descent. The profile required a high speed entry into the target sector before slowing down and lowering altitude for the Magnetic Anomaly Detectors to be able to pick out the contact more clearly. In addition, sonobuoy triangulation required careful drop of the valuable sonobuoys and hence careful and nimble flying...

Several minutes later the pilot confirmed their entry into the suspected target zone. By this time the sonar operators had already confirmed additional contacts with the target and the MAD crews were already on the job. The TC then authorized another sonobuoy drop over sector. The pilot brought the aircraft low over the waters before yet another sonobuoy left the aircraft and splashed into the sea:

“Drop S-6 completed. Pulling out...” the pilot confirmed as the aircraft gained slight altitude and speed. This time the response from the sonar operators was immediate:

“Definite submerged contact detected! Bearing three-one-seven! Computer classification confirms PLAN Kilo class submarine!”
The TC now went into action over the intercom: “Designate enemy contact as ZULU-ONE. Prepare Sonobuoy triangulation on the target. Prepare drop S-7 and S-8. Fix for active emission. Prepare for torpedo drop on target!”

A minute later the IL-38 and the Chinese Kilo class submarine began their game of cat and mouse. The IL-38 crew was flying in an arc as they dropped an additional two sonobuoys in order to get an exact fix on the target. These sonobuoys were fixed for active emissions and that would speed up results. The point was, the airborne attacker could be active and still not be touched, but it could certainly touch its intended target. The Chinese crew on the other hand had few options. The waters of the strait meant that there were no local Thermocyclines or ‘Thermal Layers’ to hide under. Diving depths were restricted. And this was the Indian Navy’s back yard. They had mapped the waters of the straits for all MAD disruptions, sub-surface terrain variations and local variations in the saline content of the water, so that there were no surprises for them in this attack process. The only hope for the PLAN crew was the hope that their air force would deliver on their intended promises...

“S-7 dropped!” the pilot confirmed even as the IL-38 continued on the steep bank angle and flew further along the arc to conduct the other drop. That was completed a minute later: “S-8 dropped! Pulling out!”

“S-7 is active. S-8 is active. We have detections on ZULU-ONE. Positional fix achieved!” the senior sonar operator confirmed.
“Go for active weapons! Prepare for single torpedo drop when ready!” the TC shouted over the intercom to the Weapons Systems Operators. He then talked to the flight crew: “We are going for Drop-1 in one minute. Bring us about on the required profile!”


The aircraft banked and then leveled out as the flight crew brought the aircraft on the required bearing. They then reduced the speed and began a small shallow dive when the WSOs confirmed the weapon’s readiness over the intercom...

“Torpedo drop initiated. Drop in three...two...one! Drop!” the pilot shouted. This time the aircraft shuddered significantly as the large torpedo fell clear of the IL-38 and splashed into the water a few moments later. The sonar crew picked it up immediately:
“Weapon is active and on target. ZULU-ONE is deploying countermeasures! Three counted so far. Weapon is running straight and normal. Impact in ten seconds...five seconds...

Impact! We have impact! Multiple explosions registered on target. We can hear bulkheads collapsing! Target has lost power and is diving for the floor...impact on the surface. Target disintegrating...!”

The aircraft intercom was filled with cheer as the Chinese submarine and its crew perished on the bottom of the Malacca Strait. The TC was more sober though as he did not lose fact of the lives that had just been lost on board the enemy submarine:

“Okay people, get back to work. Sonar: scratch ZULU-ONE off. Flight: bring us back up to altitude. It’s time we headed back to base for restocking. Communications: inform Eastern Naval HQ that we have made contact and sunk a Chinese kilo class submarine and send them the locations. Inform them that we are headed back to base for rearming and refueling.”

Back in the cockpit, the flight crew had been congratulating each other when the RWRs on board the aircraft began screeching...
“Oh shit! We are being painted! Two Flanker radar emissions inbound from the south!” the co-pilot said.
“Where are our two escort fighters?” the Flight Engineer shouted from behind. The pilot was already asking that same question from the ANC Operations Center:

“ANC OPCON, this is SIERRA-ONE. We are being painted by Red Flanker radars from the south. We need immediate assistance. Where the hell are our escorts?”

“SIERRA-ONE, this is ANC OPCON. SIERRA-FIVE and –SIX are inbound your location. ETA two minutes. Suggest you leave current position immediately!”
“No kidding!” the co-pilot said before turning to the pilot:

“Get us out of here...!”

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby parshuram » 25 Apr 2009 20:22

No Offense Vivek Saar ...PLAN Kilo Class Detected so easily . I am really worried about our's and why not putting PLAN nuclear subs in action enemy would also like to field it's best

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby mohan » 26 Apr 2009 09:01

vivek.sharma wrote:Harsh, Mohan,

Thanks for the constructive input. I have changed the elements you talked about.

By the way, it was not to denigrate any one, but rather it was my state of mind at the time I wrote it. :rotfl:


Thanks Vivek! :)

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 26 Apr 2009 13:53


- Captain –we have a sub alert –burst transmission recorded by Phalcon in the area and passed on – as of 3 hours back a possible agosta surfaced in grid sector bravo delta for few minutes
- Xo where the hell is bravo delta
-captain that is exactly 290 km north west of our present position
- Ok divert one of the sea kings to the last reported position and tell him to start a dunking ops asap
- call up command and ask for a Tupolev
- Any news from sonar
-nothing as yet captain
- Ok standby to deploy towed array
- make full speed ahead for 5 minutes then all stop
- Engine room full speed for 5 minutes then all stop
- tow sonar get ready to deploy the moment we stop
- Xo –get in touch with the Phalcon – tell them we need to know immediately whenever the pak sub breaks water
-copy that captain
- Captain – command has just confirmed a Bear on patrol near Mumbai is being diverted to us
- Ok –patch me onto the bear as fast as you can
- Captain – the bear sorry flight blue sky is on line
- Morning commander –this is Chennai- authentication code zulu sierra alpha 37 –confirm –over
- Authentication code valid – go ahead captain sir
- we have a possible enemy sub –type possible agosta 90b – in the area – no sonar contact as yet –suspect circling for a night strike – last know position grid sector bravo delta
- Standby to do a MAD run and possible weapon drop – once we get some damned contact –over
- Yes sir captain – changing course to bravo delta
- oh one last thing please also keep the air force net frequency open – the phalcon should come in line anytime soon
- copy that captain
-Captain –we have the Phalcon on line
- sir this is captain Urvahi on Chennai – authentication code – zulu sierra alpha 3 7 – do you copy over
- go ahead captain
- sir we need you to keep a close watch on grid sector bravo delta /bravo Charlie and bravo alpha –suspect agosta circling in for a sneak night attack – no positive sonar contact as yet –over
- Captain shall do best only if she comes surfaces or send s a signal
- Thanks sir – appreciate your assistance – over
- All stop
- Deploy towed array –passive
-towed array deployed
The long line of hydrophones reeled out scanning the ocean for any sign of hostile sub . The sonar officer in his dark cubicle watched the waterfall display .Apart form task force ships there was no unidentified mad made acoustic signals .
- captain this are is clean
- engine room make full speed
- xo change course to 090

The deadly game of cat and mouse began, where the winner will take all.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 27 Apr 2009 15:44


Captain Imran watched the passive sonar plot intently . He was no entering the danger zone . The Indian carrier task force was operating almost due west of his present position about 230 km/off .The smaller task force ,led by Chennai ,his target was south east by agin same distance .He planned on entering the kill zone right in between the two groups
Cashing on the confusion of two large naval forces operating in a comparatively small ocean surface each having their own under water and aerial protection.

His sonar showed all of 6 submarines –two scorpenes with Chennai group and 3 with Vikramaditya group one of which was most likely an akula 2.The did not worry him in fact it was a blessing in disguise . With so many subs in the are Indian subs will not open fire on an undersea target unless absolutely sure. For him there was no such limitation.

The ocean depth in this part of Arabian sea was good and he could use the underwater formations for acreepy approach to Chennai –take the shot and then escape in the confusion .

It was a good plan –almost

The Agosta submarines designed by DCN (now DCNS) of France, are currently in service with the French, Spanish and Pakistan navies. The Agosta 90B is an improved version featuring higher performance and a new combat system.
The new submarine features a higher level of automation, which has resulted in the ship's crew being reduced from 54 to 36. Other improvements include a new battery for increased range, a deeper diving capability of 350m resulting from the use of new materials including HLES 80 steel, and a reduced acoustic signature through the installation of new suspension and isolation systems.
Three Agosta 90Bs were ordered by the Pakistan Navy in September 1994. The first, Khalid (S137), was built at DCN’s Cherbourg yard and was commissioned in 1999. The second, Saad, assembled at Karachi Naval Dockyard, was launched in August 2002 and was commissioned in December 2003. The third, Hamza, which has been constructed and assembled in Karachi, was launched in August 2006 and was commissioned in September 2008. The Agosta 90B submarines are equipped with a SUBTICS fully integrated combat system. This is supplied by UDS International, a joint subsidiary of DCN International and Thales, now wholly owned by DCNS. SUBTICS processes signals from the submarine's sensors, determines the tactical situation by track association, fusion, synthesis, trajectory plotting and management and handles all weapon command and control functions. The Agosta 90B submarine is fitted with four bow 533mm torpedo tubes and has the capacity to carry a mixed load of up to 16 torpedoes and missiles. The submarine can be equipped with the ECAN F17 mod 2 torpedo, which is a wire-guided torpedo with active and passive homing to a range of 20km. The torpedo delivers a 250kg warhead to a depth of 600m

Captain Imran moved into the comfortable command chair ,looked over the consoles and took active command of this critical mission
-xo I have the con
- captain has the con
- make depth 250 meter – 5 degree on planes
- making depth 250 meters – 5 degree on plane
-come to course 130
-coming to new course 130
-reduce speed 3 knots

As the propeller revolutions reduced the chances of his detection came down sharply .Though not as quite as kilo ,augusta is also a very quite submarine .
As each command was entered the navigation computer moved the necessary controls as the ship quietly changed course and depth ,making it approach Chennai at an angle of 30 degree ,an angle of approach at which the towed and bow mounted sonars will generate confusion about Saads location giving Imran the vital few minutes at the time of weapon launch.
He needed to contact command also one last time for a temporary air support after weapon launch otherwise the he knew Indian maritime strike will surely get him and he did not want to die so quickly. He also wanted the freedom to change target if the primary target becomes difficult or too fast for a good firing solution .
He decided to make the contact some time around mid night, till then will be all about staying quite and moving slowly towards a big kill.


Captain Urvasi looked at the sonar repeater on bridge intently . She was no sonar expert but still interpreting a sonar display always is a mater of life and death for any navl ship commander . She knew the Pakistani sub was out there some where waiting for her to come instead of coming to her ,at least that is what she would have done in the present situation . With two task forces operating in a small ocean section long range detection with certainty was almost impossible . Even if detected any torpedo fired has a good chance of hitting her own escorts or the escorts screening Vick than enemy sub .
There is only one safe strike option and that is hit it when o surface and for that shee needed the phalcon and the bear in the same airspace .One will detect other will locate and then it will be up to her to make the kill .
If the escorting subs can locate the enemy sub before that –well and good ,otherwise she will have to use her just developed plan .
She expected the Pakistani agosta to make one more call to home base before going deep .That will be her only chance to take it out cleanly without endangering any friend lies

- xo –please get me the phalcon on line
- sea gull one –chennai – any radar contact
- negative Chennai – we are listening
- sonar –any luck
- negative captain –the agosta seems to have gone deep and quite
- ok –keep looking
- blue sky –chennai are you in position
- roger that Chennai – grid sector bravo delta – ready for mad run –your call
- copy that blue sky – slow down for a long night – standby for a snap run -0ver
- copy that Chennai –over
- Get me admiral on Vick
- Vick on line
- Admiral sir –chennai – possible agosta heading our way – but may divert at last moment to carrier group – over
- Message understood Chennai – we are also looking for it –stay alert and keep this frequency open if anything starts developing
- Shall do sir –over

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 27 Apr 2009 19:03


Air commodore Manjit singh finished his some what late working dinner . The screechy monotonous drone of four engines at minimum power setting and good air conditioning inside could make any one go to sleep quickly thought as he took a small walk along the row of consoles all ghostly in blue green display and red overhead light . Outside he could occasionally see the flashing navigation lights of the escorting flankers armed to teeth and more making endless pattern of eight on the ink black night sky .He decided to talk to his navy liaison officer on board an young lt commander called Bhupinder specializing in undersea warfare and sub to surface communication .He started the conversation in his usual formal way .It always started like that before the heat of discussion may turn it into something less than civil and language too followed the general trend

- ok navy – so what we are looking for
- sir we are trying to locate a Pakistani submarine ,somewhere in the ocean under us
- so how do you propose to do that
- sir we have several options like using high power active sonar or a MAD run but for all that to happen we need a rough fix of the area where the enemy sub is
- and how do you propose to do it
- sir by tracking its emission and if he surfaces for any reason ,by spotting his radar shadow it is a big ship even when half submerged
- are you sure it will surface
- not 1005 sir but pak navy usually keeps their sub commanders on a tight leash particularly after they installed the nuke tipped missiles on their agostas .So the ocmmander will surface even if for a few seconds to take the final clearance before committing his ship to high risk offensive action
- ok what kind of transmission we are talking about
- sir a typical high speed burst transmission and response from a satellite in a ,matter of minutes .In that window the submarine will be on surface or at least on periscope depth open to location confirmation
- and how do you propose to take that out
- Sir that depends on the ship commander , he surely did not want to elaborate to an airforcce guy even if a commodore

- sir came the excited voice of the communication control officer monitoring the standard surface to sat communication spectrum – we may have something here – high speed burst communication on Ku band -6 seconds –

- get a fix on the transmission source

Manjit was off his seat in a flash ,a difficult feat considering his size and age as he rushed out his chair and straight into the flight deck
- wing commander –I want you to fly to this location
- do we have a fix yet
- not exactly but in grid sector bravo alpha – 75 km off –heading 218 –surface contact
- sir we have a radar return weak type possibly submerged but near surface –possible submarine
- Wing max speed to this new contact
- Com alert Chennai
- Radar donot loose touch –closing in at max speed

The phalcon did the unthinkable ,it initiated a shallow dive to the suspect location and all engines on full power .


-Captain we have a possible sub alert from Phalcon – grid bravo alpha –they are trying to get a better radar fix – on surface or periscope depth
- ok guys sound battle station – full speed ahead
- missile –ready for a snap launch if we get a fix
- xo divert the bear to bravo delta immediately
- blue sky –rush to bravo delta – possible sun contact made by phalcon
- copy that Chennai – going max speed
- blue sky –sea gull one – possible sub on or near surface contact bravo delta –co ordinates ------
Still firming up
- noted sea gull – starting search MAD at target location in 6 minutes max

- xo – get the missile crew ready for a snap shot moment we get a confirmed mad fix –maintain full speed

The deck vibration increased as the four gas turbines spooled up to maximum rev ,quickly narrowing the gap between the suspect submarine and the destroyer Chennai which was now on a scent trail –excited fast and very dangerous .

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vijyeta » 27 Apr 2009 20:22

Shankar wrote:........ high speed burst communication on Ku band -6 seconds – ......

Considering the high data transfer rate for such a transmission, 6 seconds seems too long.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby vivek.sharma » 28 Apr 2009 22:49

Chapter 4: The Tiger Shows its teeth

Day 3, 0714 HRS, 6:44 AM Lahore

Wing Commander Zurfaq was getting bored, he has been flying an 8 for 3 hours. Nothing has happened ever since the last team was scrambled after Indian PM’s warning. “May be it was nothing, another Indian ploy to get world’s attention” He thought and then looked lovingly at fiancé’s picture. “Another month and we will be together forever” He continued thinking and looked the time another minute and then Indian timeline starts. He checked the status of his plant, another hour worth of fuel, fully armed, ready for action. He never knew this killer will be silent too.

0715 HRS, Command center deep inside Aravali mountain range

DRDO chief and NTPC chief were in teleconference with the Chief of Staff and so were the member of National Security Council. DRDO chief broke the silence, “All confirmed, we have started the warming up procedures. National Grid is holding up. We are withdrawing 50% of the max power. We will be ready for deployment in 15 minutes. T minus 15 and counting” PM Shastri nodded and turned to Foreign Minister for further consultations on fall out of what was going to happen.

0716 HRS, New Delhi

Ramesh Gudipati was shaving when all of a sudden the power went off. Not again, he thought, now the kids will have to use boiled water to bathing. And he went on to put some water on Gas burner.

0730 HRS, New Delhi

Ramesh Gudipati was shaving when all of a sudden the power went off. Not again, he thought, now the kids will have to use boiled water to bathing. And he went on to put some water on Gas burner., 7:00 AM Lahore[/b]

Nothing! ZIP! Zelch!

The clock struck 7 and nothing happened. F-16s were still in the air, even though the commercial traffic has shyed away the from Paki airspace. All the international commercial airliners in Pakistan had left last night and incoming flights were cancelled.

0740 HRS, Airspace over Lahore

Wing Commander Zurfaq looked at the fuel gauge and called his wing man on radio “Alpha-Omega this is Alpha-Zulu, you won the bet. I owe you a bottle. Let’s go home and have some hot tea. Looks like these Indians are just the same, no action!” But this hot tea was not his cup of tea today.

Wing Commander Zurfaq called the ATC to inform them that will be touching down in 30 minutes, and it’s time to send in the next wave.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby ashdivay » 29 Apr 2009 07:28

ashdivay wrote:

I made movie for above scen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kt9zUkKB_A
please view comment and rate.
Thank you

Did anyone like this /?? and would like for me to continue ??

Posts: 1905
Joined: 28 Aug 2002 11:31
Location: wai -maharastra

Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 29 Apr 2009 13:09


The ocean was rough and the ship was making full speed in excess of 34 knots (close to 38 knots actually) and captain uravashi held on to the guard rail on operation centre as Chennai rushed on regardless from one series of violent pitching to another with the hot scent of a kill in her nose . The high pitched whine of the gas turbines could be heard even through the not so good soundproofing

- blue sky –Chennai – you in position
- yes captain – in bravo delta
- xo are we ready to launch missiles
- yes captain whenever you say on the last reported co ordinate of the sub
- where are the sea kings xo
- captain sea eagle one is along north south axis of bravo delta and sea eagle two is on east west axis
- ok let us start bracketing the bast----
- sea eagle one you are cleared to drop a line of buoys 200 meter separation – start now –maintain present speed and course
- sea eagle two start dropping your load after two minutes along your present course and maintain speed
- blue sky stand by for mad run
The tension in the ops centre was electric .Urvashi could physically smell the tension and the sweaty stink of many bodies packed together even with the air conditioning going full blast.

- Chennai – sea eagle one we have a weak signal from B3 ,medium on B4 weak on B5- one sec strength on B5 is now medium – B3 is very weak and getting very weak on B6
- Sea eagle 2 – start dropping your load now
- Copy that Chennai –
- Chennai – sea eagle one signal on b5 is fading – medium on B6 looks like it is making straight for you on slow speed
- Chennai sea eagle 2 we have a weak signal on N3 and N4
Urvashi leaned forward over the sonar console, still no clear signal ,obviously the Agosta captain was good very good; he is approaching the destroyer at an angle which makes positive sonar identification difficult at a very slow speed and now most likely slowly going deeper to make any bracketing attempt more complicated and difficult. She had to do something now before the agosta is lost and surfaces somewhere inside the protective screen . Where she can fire her exocet and torpedoes at will may be at Chennai or the carrier Vick

She will have to act now ,she will have to make the agosta disclose its position and she will have to do that before it comes in sure kill envelope of her own anti ship missiles .
- xo – prepare for multiple Brahmos launch –target last known position of enemy sub and as confirmed by the helo sonar data
A few seconds delay as the data from phalcon and sea kings were processed and the Brahmos fire control computer came up three possible location of the target designated sierra one ,two and three

- clear deck for missile launch
- captain –missile – permission to launch 3 missile salvo
- permission granted – authentication code orange river 456 –over
- authentication code entered – request enter launch key in your console and turn on my prompt
- launch key inserted –ready to turn
- 3 2 1 now
Both the missile officer and captain turned the key and the 3 supersonic anti ship missiles went on autonomous launch mode .The countdown clock started its reverse count and exact 9 seconds after the three missiles came out of its canister and leaped into the dark sky on pillars of fire almost 36 ft high .As it reached a height of 80 ft the noses started tipping over and the ramjet ignited the three missiles changed course accelerating fast towards the last know position of the Pakistani submarine .

Each carrying a 250 kg high explosive warhead enough to sink a carrier, the missiles flew on a flat trajectory acting as worlds first supersonic oversized depth charge . In a few minutes they were over the target are and dived hitting the water at three times the speed of sound and the warheads exploded in sequence just under the surface of water sending in massive shock waves all around .


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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 29 Apr 2009 14:38


Captain Imran’s plan was working. He has got his authorization to missile launch and he was almost within launch range of his anti ship missiles . At 3 knots peed he ken was practically undetectable at 115 ft depth which sonar predicted the first thermo cline . He was aware of Indian anti sub helos searching the area for him and he also knew the destroyer Chennai was closing in at maximum speed but still much outside any torpedo launch zone. At this depth he was almost impervious to any magnetic anomaly detection also from the Indian topples that might have reached the area. Even if some weak signal the tupolevs may get on their MAD gear it will not be good enough for an accurate weapon drop.

It was time to get into missile launch position ,by the time he levels out the Indian destroyer should nicely come into kill zone and then it will be upto him and his dependable excocets to make the prize kill which he was sure will break the moral of Indian navy .
he SM-39 Exocet is a short-range, solid propellant, single warhead, submarine-launched cruise missile developed and manufactured by France. Several hundred were fired in combat during the Falklands conflict and the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s.

France initially designed the Exocet (“Flying Fish” in French) family of cruise missiles to attack and destroy large warships. The SM-39, on which development began in 1979, is the submarine-launched version of the AM-39. It is currently deployed on the “Le Triumphant,” “L’Inflexible,” “Rubris,” and “Agosta” class submarines.

The Exocet family of missiles are all the same basic shape, the only differences being the length and wing shape. The SM-39 has four delta-shaped wings at mid-body, and four delta-shaped control fins at the rear. The missile is 4.69 m long, 0.35 m in body diameter, and has a launch weight of 655 kg. It carries a high explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 165 kg. The SM-39 is stored in a launch container along with propulsion and guidance units. The entire module, designated VSM “Vehicule Sous-Marin,” is fired from standard torpedo 533 millimeter launch tubes. The missile and VSM together weigh 1,345 kg. After breaking the surface, the SM-39 separates from the VSM at a low altitude of about 30 m.

The SM-39 then stabilizes in the direction of its target at its first cruising altitude, low enough to avoid detection by its target yet high enough to allow its active radar seeker head to acquire the target. Midcourse guidance is by an inertial navigation system (INS) and a radio altimeter, allowing the missile to fly a sea-skimming trajectory to its target. The SM-39 descends to its second cruise altitude for the terminal phase, with a final approach at an altitude determined by prevailing sea conditions, sometimes as low as 3 m. Terminal guidance is provided by an active radar. The SM-39 is reported to have a maximum range of 50 km

It was then the brahmos stuck water and exploded with horrendous force followed by the second and then the third.

The first casuality was the sonar operator, his eardrums ruptured and he collapsed in a heap on the console table. The lights went off and in a few seconds the emergency lights came on .Imran could not believe what has happened .There was no warsip in the vicinity and he was far too deep for an aerial strike. There was no torpedo launch warning either. He took control immediately
- captain has the con
- xo damage assessment
- sir we have sonar in operative
- diving plane damaged – unable to maintain depth
- pressure hull shows no sign of leakage –depth 103 ft –speed 3 knots
- AIP OK –on standby
- Minor leakage on prop seal
- Weapon can we launch missiles
- Affirmative sir but we need to come up to launch depth first
- Ok xo – main ballast – let us come up to 50 ft – prepare to launch missiles at target Charlie as soon as possible

The crippled Agosta started climbing slowly as the main ballast tanks started pushing out water .On the missile launch console the lights started turning green as one after another the various launch and arming sequences were being completed by the fire control computer.

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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Postby Shankar » 29 Apr 2009 14:50


- captain – sea eagle 1 the damn agosta is hit –she is blowing main ballast – coming up to periscope depth
- sea eagle –please note that can also be the missile launch depth
- blue sky –you heard me – commence MAD run now
- sea eagle one and two –standby to drop weapon the moment a positive MAD fix
is obtained
- copy Chennai – blue sky – starting MAD run – altitude 50 meters – east west line grid bravo delta

The four engine bear turned in sharply and dived for the ocean tops . As it quickly quartered area in classic grid search pattern the magnetometer on her tail listened for slightest magnetic anomaly on earth’s magnetic field as may be expected by a large mass of iron like a submarine.

It took more than 3 minutes before the first spike appeared on the screen

- mad man mad man smoke away ,shouted the Bear pilot as he quickly turned outwards and gained altitude for a weapon drop ,dropping an orange smoke buoy
to mark the position

- sea eagle one – Chennai -weapons free – go ahead
- sea eagle two –stand by
- blue sky stand by

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