Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

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Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2021 01:34

Thanks to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the information below.

Thanks to BRF Members asbchakri and Sankum for their contributions.

Mods: Please update or correct info below, if found to be in error. Thank You.

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Design Specifications
Overall Length: 25.16 metres
Fuselage Length: 19.83 metres
Overall Width: 4.74 metres
Fuselage Width: 2.70 metres
Overall Height: 6.22 metres
Fuselage Height: 2.41 metres
Total Cabin Volume: 22.5 cubic metres
Cabin Internal Dimensions: 5.40 metres length x 2.34 metres width x 1.80 metres height
Cargo Dimensions: 5 metres length x 2 metres width x 1.8 metres height
Maximum Internal Fuel: 2,000 kg
Maximum Take Off Weight: 13,000 kg
Overload Maximum Take Off Weight: 14,200 kg

Performance Specifications
Maximum Cruise Speed: 260 km/h
Never Exceed Speed: 300 km/h
Range/Endurance: 800 km, 3 Hours
Payload @ Sea Level: 4,000 kg
Payload @ 4,000 metres: 1,500 kg
Overload Payload: 5,200 kg
Engine: 2 × turboshaft each at 2,000 kW
Troop Capacity: 24 in normal load and 36 in high capacity load
External Weapons Stations: Four stations on either side, with the two inboard weapon stations at 500 kg load capacity and the two outboard weapon stations at 300 kg load capacity.
External Weapons Payload: 1,600 kg

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Operational Summary
• Multi-Role and Multi-Mission Capability.
• Designed for Unmatched Performance at High Altitude.
• Utility and Armed Variants for the Indian Army and Indian Air Force.

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Design Summary
• Composite five bladed articulated main rotor with spherical elastomeric bearings and four bladed articulated tail rotor.
• Advanced transmission system with emergency lubrication system, featuring 30 minutes dry run capability.
• Twin engine with dual channel FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine [or Electronics] Control).
• Heavy and light ramp versions for cargo and vehicle loading.
• Crashworthy design and crashworthy tricycle landing gear.
• Extensive use of composites and self sealing fuel tanks.
• Four axis digital automatic flight control system.
• Smart glass cockpit with large area displays.
• Manual blade folding.

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Future Milestones
• Design & Manufacturing of three flying prototypes, one structural test specimen and one ground test vehicle.

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Indian Multi Role Helicopter



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Photographs
*If the pictures do not load, please clicks on the link below.

Photo below is courtesy of Vayu Aerospace.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 91073?s=20 --->

Image

Photos below are courtesy of Satwik Sadhukhan.

https://twitter.com/i_m_satwikk/status/ ... 46566?s=20 --->

Image

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2021 01:34

Started a new thread based on the excellent presentation by HAL on the upcoming IMRH. Please use this thread going forward for all IMRH related discussion. Thank You.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby sankum » 07 Feb 2021 01:37

Rakesh, please enter the below also.

Overload maximum take off weight 14200 kg.

Overload payload will be 5200kg which is not mentioned in specs in video while the above is shown.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 07 Feb 2021 01:42

sankum wrote:Rakesh, please enter the below also.

Overload maximum take off weight 14200 kg.

Overload payload will be 5200kg which is not mentioned in specs in video while the above is shown.

Made the corrections. Please review the Design Specifications and Performance Specifications sub-headings. Thanks.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Philip » 07 Feb 2021 05:53

Becos of the large size there appears to be no naval variant as a 13t helo may be too large for exg. hangars aboard our DDGs/ FFGs,but looking at the carriers, it would be worthwhile developing a naval multi-role variant as it would have greater range and endurance.An AEW variant too would be more capable than our KA-31s aboard most surface combatants. Such an AEW variant would havf good export potential too for navies operating multi-purpose amphibs/light carriers.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby sankum » 07 Feb 2021 07:19

IMRH present IAF version in naval version with rotor and tail folding will have estimated length of 16.3m.
While in NMRH tender required folded length as far as I remember is 15.5m.
The IN is in talks to develop a naval version and according to chief designer money was needed to be sanctioned for the same.
For AEW version for IMRH if operational altitude of 4500m with 1500kg payload is used than 280 km horizon radar range is possible as compared to 200km for Ka31 operating at 2500m altitude. Radar range being the other limiting factor.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rishi_Tri » 09 Feb 2021 21:59

IMRH presentation during Aero India.

Tons of details on IMRH including designs shared. Among other details, "The wind tunnel tests have been better than expectation. The actual performance characteristics are more than likely to be better than indicated."

We are truly on way to being Self Reliant in Rotary Wing Aircraft. HAL Rotary Wing Research Center is as good as any in the world.


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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby JTull » 09 Feb 2021 22:54

Original full video here.


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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby rajkumar » 09 Feb 2021 22:59

JTull wrote:Original full video here.

This is a super presentation. I would recommend all jingo's to watch it.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby jamwal » 10 Feb 2021 13:01

Rishi_Tri wrote:IMRH presentation during Aero India.

Tons of details on IMRH including designs shared. Among other details, "The wind tunnel tests have been better than expectation. The actual performance characteristics are more than likely to be better than indicated."

We are truly on way to being Self Reliant in Rotary Wing Aircraft. HAL Rotary Wing Research Center is as good as any in the world.


Have they mastered engine and transmission technology yet? French still hold the strings and demand a lot of money for everything.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rishi_Tri » 10 Feb 2021 22:41

jamwal wrote:
Rishi_Tri wrote:IMRH presentation during Aero India.

Tons of details on IMRH including designs shared. Among other details, "The wind tunnel tests have been better than expectation. The actual performance characteristics are more than likely to be better than indicated."

We are truly on way to being Self Reliant in Rotary Wing Aircraft. HAL Rotary Wing Research Center is as good as any in the world.


Have they mastered engine and transmission technology yet? French still hold the strings and demand a lot of money for everything.


As per the presentation the Gear Box design is 100% HAL. Also, HAL is looking at private sector participation in the Gear Box manufacture from forging to metal cutting. So Gear Box design is being mastered through combination of public and private sector.

Of course, engines are different matter all together.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Indranil » 10 Feb 2021 23:54

The transmission of LUH is fully designed by HAL.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 11 Feb 2021 00:05

Indranil wrote:The transmission of LUH is fully designed by HAL.

IR, did you mean IMRH instead of LUH? Just asking, because this is the IMRH thread.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Indranil » 12 Feb 2021 02:28

Sorry for the the off-topic reply. Please bear through one more, because I think it is relevant to IMRH and India's helicopter design capability in general.

I was trying to say that the answer to the original question is not accurate.
Rishi_Tri wrote:
jamwal wrote:Have they mastered engine and transmission technology yet? French still hold the strings and demand a lot of money for everything.

HAL is looking at private sector participation in the Gear Box manufacture from forging to metal cutting. So Gear Box design is being mastered through combination of public and private sector.

This answer would have been correct in 2010-2012. HAL hadn't master Dhruv's transmission yet and Mk1 and Mk2 were have having serious problems. So HAL went back to the French to design the transmission of LUH. The French asked such an exorbitant fee that LUH program would become dead at birth. It simply would not have been able to gather funding while KA-226T and Fennec were knocking at the door to become India's Cheetah/Chetak replacement. So HAL embarked on the journey alone. It took them 2-3 years, but the result is in front of you. One great decision that HAL took was that of risk mitigation. They did not go for the world-beating transmission design that the Dhruv has. A little more conservative design increased chances of success and decreased development time. In the meantime, Dhruv's transmission was continuously improved through Mk3, Mk4 and LCH designs.

Today, when they have to design a new transmission for the IMRH or the RUAV-200, they won't reach out to anybody else. They have the men, women and technology to do it inhouse. They are seeking private cooperation not to complete a design, but to incorporate production tech into the design phase itself. For example, if Bharat Forge can build a certain part bests, that parts exact properties will be incorporated in the very design process itself. This is design to build! LCA and ALH have allowed our ecosystem to take this evolutionary step.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 23 Feb 2021 23:13

Please check out the first post of this thread, to see renders of the IMRH. You will not be disappointed.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Suraj » 24 Feb 2021 08:28

Rakesh and others: thank you for the amazing coverage of these products. A request : could someone please summarize the dates when each of these products met various development waypoints - concept, prototype, flight, trials, IOC etc ? While they’re not all the same challenge by any means, it appears the rate of progression has accelerated and the timeframes have compressed as a mature development infrastructure confidently churns out each new product. Of course there remains the variable associated with MoD driven delays.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby asbchakri » 24 Feb 2021 15:43

Also as per the presentation,
Troops - 24/36
Internal fuel - 2000kgs
Weapons station load - 4 (I/B: 500 X2, O/B: 300 X2) So, this translates to how many Nag's can it carry?

So it says it has a ramp to load some vehicles, can anyone say what kind of vehicles it can carry. I wished it can carry a NAMICA but I guess the width will be a problem. Also can it carry under slung cargo?.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby sankum » 24 Feb 2021 18:54

asbchakri wrote:Also as per the presentation,
Troops - 24/36
Internal fuel - 2000kgs
External Weapons station payload 1600kg- 4 stations (I/B: 500 X2, O/B: 300 X2) .


Rakesh, please add the above to specifications.
24 troops normal and in high density 36 troops can be carried.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 24 Feb 2021 21:31

sankum wrote:Rakesh, please add the above to specifications.
24 troops normal and in high density 36 troops can be carried.

I have added all the specifications. Please check.

Can you or asbchakri kindly elaborate on the following ---> External Weapons station payload 1600kg- 4 stations (I/B: 500 X2, O/B: 300 X2)

What is I/B: 500 X2 and O/B: 300 X2?

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Anujan » 24 Feb 2021 21:49

Rakesh wrote:Please check out the first post of this thread, to see renders of the IMRH. You will not be disappointed.



Looks very TFTA

The engine inlet seems to have been moved when comparing the mockup to the latest design.

Used to be in the front, like Mil Mi-17, has been moved to the side like the Dhruv.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Atmavik » 24 Feb 2021 21:57

asbchakri wrote:Also as per the presentation,
Troops - 24/36
Internal fuel - 2000kgs
Weapons station load - 4 (I/B: 500 X2, O/B: 300 X2) So, this translates to how many Nag's can it carry?

So it says it has a ramp to load some vehicles, can anyone say what kind of vehicles it can carry. I wished it can carry a NAMICA but I guess the width will be a problem. Also can it carry under slung cargo?.


mostly a jeep or a tata safari storm. IFV or even the new Kalyani M4 will be too heavy/large for a medium-lift chopper.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 24 Feb 2021 22:25

Suraj wrote:Rakesh and others: thank you for the amazing coverage of these products.

Real thanks goes to folks like sankum (and others like him) who consistently provides all the nuggets. I do cut-and-paste. Articles from IR and JayS have laid the foundation. Prasad's videos from Aero India 2021 have been outstanding. And Saurav Jha needs an award from the GOI for promoting Atmanirbhar Bharat, even before the term was coined by PM Modi.

None of the below is directed at you Saar, because you already know this. But I got an opportunity to give some unsolicited gyan to other readers, so here goes :)

Maximum concentration of financial and people investment in local (& proven) products is the only way - IMVHO - to first boost, then sustain and finally turbo-charge the Indian economic engine. And that is the *ONLY* economic certainty in this uncertain COVID period. Therefore, investing in Indian industry will provide the greatest return on investment to the Indian taxpayer. The most important strategic and military alliance India can ever have, is with her own industry. Every other nation must be a distant second and only serve to further that goal.

There are a number of silent lurkers on the forum who only read and never post. Folks who visit BRF absorb information like a sponge. And thus the greater promotion of local maal = greater awareness. And while awareness does not influence Govt policy or acquisition of platforms, aam junta (vote bank) does take notice. Imagine the hue and cry today, if the contract for 83 Tejas Mk1A was cancelled in favour of 114 MRFA.

Here is a great influencer...Group Captain HV Thakur (retd).

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/13636 ... 93952?s=20 ---> LCA, LCA Mk-1A, LCA Navy, LCA Mk-2, LCA Navy Mk-2, MWF, TEDBF, AMCA. Imports, a strategically flawed idea. Period.

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Suraj wrote:A request : could someone please summarize the dates when each of these products met various development waypoints - concept, prototype, flight, trials, IOC etc ? While they’re not all the same challenge by any means, it appears the rate of progression has accelerated and the timeframes have compressed as a mature development infrastructure confidently churns out each new product. Of course there remains the variable associated with MoD driven delays.

We do monitor the waypoints as in the Tejas Mk1/MK1A thread. As in IOC, FOC, first flight, production line, etc. Apart from the Tejas Mk1 and the HAL Dhruv, the rest are on the cusp of various milestones. Once these programs hit those milestones, I will most certainly add them in.

Talking about HAL Dhruv, I am in the process of creating a thread for that bird. We have a thread on virtually every other local helo, but that.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Suraj » 24 Feb 2021 23:12

Rakesh, thanks! You might like this article posted in the strat forum yesterday:
Won't go for foreign vendors for defence equipment that can be Made In India; Negative list a guarantee, Modi assures private sector
Yes it's said many times that we should indigenize, but there's some teeth behind the latest pronouncements, for multiple reasons. Here are a few reasons:
1. Actual clearance of long pending local acqusition goals, Mk1A Tejas etc. I understand jingoes here want more, but the Aero India deals are a watershed moment regardless.
2. A very focused top down assertion since Budget 2021 that this government does not believe the primacy of the public sector, and also that private sector and entrepreneurs should not be demonized for seeking business motives and profit. In the econ thread, the government is seen pushing plans for major PSU monetization and disinvestment.
3. A major push to drive manufacturing and job creation across various sectors including defense procurement.
4. Probably the first time any PM has openly stated that India must pursue peace through strength, and that strength cannot come from importing weapons. See the first 2-3 paras of the article above.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby sankum » 25 Feb 2021 00:08

Rakesh wrote:
sankum wrote:Rakesh, please add the above to specifications.
24 troops normal and in high density 36 troops can be carried.

I have added all the specifications. Please check.

Can you or asbchakri kindly elaborate on the following ---> External Weapons station payload 1600kg- 4 stations (I/B: 500 X2, O/B: 300 X2)

What is I/B: 500 X2 and O/B: 300 X2?


Watched video again

Total external weapons payload-1600 kg

Weapon stations/Load (kg)-4 stations (I/B: 500 kg x 2, O/B: 300 kg x 2)

The armament boom has two inboard weapon stations of 500 kg load capacity and two outboard weapon stations of 300 kg load capacity.

Total cabin volume-22.5 cu.m
Cabin internal dimensions- length 5.4 m/ width 2.34 m/ height 1.8 m
Cargo dimensions-length 5 m/ width 2 m/ height 1.8 m


Kindly add the above to the specifications.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2021 05:18

sankum wrote:Kindly add the above to the specifications.

Added. Please check for accuracy and clarity.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby asbchakri » 25 Feb 2021 06:31

Thanks Sankum, you beat me to it. I should have elaborated on it :)

So my other question was can it carry underslung cargo, i could not find about it in the video.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby sankum » 25 Feb 2021 10:31

Of course helicopter will carry slung load rated to overload capacity of 5T just like Mi17. Don't know if the slung load is restricted to lower say 4/4.5 T but being a military helicopter I expect 5T.

Helicopters normally carry slung load to full overload capacity which is more than normal payload which can be carried internally.

Overload capacity is used with either slung load or external weapons load which can be dumped in case of any emergency.
Last edited by sankum on 25 Feb 2021 10:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby sankum » 25 Feb 2021 10:36

Rakesh wrote:
sankum wrote:Kindly add the above to the specifications.

Added. Please check for accuracy and clarity.

External Weapons Stations: Four stations on either side, with the two inboard weapon stations at 500 kg load capacity and the two outboard weapon stations at 300 kg load capacity.

Please add two to inboard weapon pylons for clarity.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2021 19:41

Done Sir. Thank you so much.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2021 20:25

Suraj wrote:Rakesh, thanks! You might like this article posted in the strat forum yesterday:
Won't go for foreign vendors for defence equipment that can be Made In India; Negative list a guarantee, Modi assures private sector

Thank You Suraj. Great article. Good to see a PM articulate the vision and put that vision into action. As long as India stays the course, the next decade is going to really exciting for Indian Industry.


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