Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Oct 2013 23:24

Bji

I think the problem is with articulation of Indian/Bharatiya interests. That itself will clarify what is 'fair'.

This is the discussion (sic) secularists are not allowing to happen on the forum. The day what the identity of India is and what Indian Interests are properly defined, that day will be the end of secularists and their colonial network.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 13 Oct 2013 23:29

brihaspati wrote:All I hope is that sufficient pressure can be kept on him not to take measures that rein in the hindu expansion.

plus 1...

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 14 Oct 2013 05:57

nageshks wrote:
subhamoy.das wrote: ( Poland also has a lot of jews but they are not a jewish nation but a polish nation )..
Dude - which world are you living in? Poland has, according to the latest census, about 1200 Jews. The Nazis butchered most of the Polish Jews, and the bulk of the rest emigrated to Israel during the Stalinist years. What remained of the Jews (about 80K, of the 3.5-4 million in 1935) was expelled from Poland in 1968. Polish antisemitism is so deep rooted that it does not even require Jews in the country to sustain it. All Jews are long gone from Poland, and even now, antisemitism in Poland is at an all time high.

I agree with Atri-ji, by the way. SB model is a recipe for disaster.

It is a big time failure of the Polish state that it could not protect its citizens. Do u want the Indian state also to follow this foot step. By your logic there will be only a handful of states left in the world - Christian state, a muslim state, a jewish state, a buddist state, hindu state....and they will be at war with each other all the time like mediaval period?

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 14 Oct 2013 06:18

The hindu way of life that we see in every day life is not some thing to emulate. It is all family business in every walk of life and not a performance based society at all. U may be talking about the Vedic hindu way of life which cannot be practicsed in this 21st century. No matter how much NAMO or RSS wants it simply cannot be rolled out to 1+b people in this yuga of science and technology and consumerism. So what can realistically be practised is the concept of the nation state and its citizens being treated as per the rule of the nation to usher in peace and prosperity and growth. So NAMO should be rolling out uniform civil code, repeal article 370, stop infiltration of Bangladeshis, order a surgical strike inside Pakistan, order a strike brahamos strike next time PLA comes inside Indian territory, build a fast and fair judiciary, free the police of political control etc etc. Shastra puja may have taking in a state like Gujrat but may not find any takers in a state like Bengal. Hindus are divided into to many sub-castes and jatis at this time that the Hindu way of life simply cannot be used to unite them. People care about jobs, schools, education, hospitals, security, Olympic medals, technology innovation - a good quality of life which is other words is the western system of good governance has delivered. So far NAMO is in right direction and getting huge support. The day he starts advocating "Surya Namaskar" in all schools - his rating will start to drop like a stone.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Oct 2013 07:06

subhamoy.das wrote:The hindu way of life that we see in every day life is not some thing to emulate. It is all family business in every walk of life and not a performance based society at all. U may be talking about the Vedic hindu way of life which cannot be practicsed in this 21st century. No matter how much NAMO or RSS wants it simply cannot be rolled out to 1+b people in this yuga of science and technology and consumerism. So what can realistically be practised is the concept of the nation state and its citizens being treated as per the rule of the nation to usher in peace and prosperity and growth. So NAMO should be rolling out uniform civil code, repeal article 370, stop infiltration of Bangladeshis, order a surgical strike inside Pakistan, order a strike brahamos strike next time PLA comes inside Indian territory, build a fast and fair judiciary, free the police of political control etc etc. Shastra puja may have taking in a state like Gujrat but may not find any takers in a state like Bengal. Hindus are divided into to many sub-castes and jatis at this time that the Hindu way of life simply cannot be used to unite them. People care about jobs, schools, education, hospitals, security, Olympic medals, technology innovation - a good quality of life which is other words is the western system of good governance has delivered. So far NAMO is in right direction and getting huge support. The day he starts advocating "Surya Namaskar" in all schools - his rating will start to drop like a stone.

A well-known lady from the Tagore family officially did "shastra-puja" in early 20th century. Most of the "revolutionary" Bengalis engaged in it formally. I guess, suddenly under first Congress rule and then Left Front rule - Bengali's have suddenly become oh-so-shy about "shastras". There is a great shame in being seen associated with Sanskrit and Vedic phrases - as if that is a crime and a sign of deep retrogression. But I have seen the upaveetam on several high level Bengali communists. Or secret belief in the power of Kali.

Meanwhile all along the border with BD and increasing pockets in Howrah, Hooghly, both the 24-Parganas, Murshidabad [the entire belt through Lalgola-Ziagunj-Palasi], Malda, Dinajpur and Kochbihar, the secular community is doing their own version of shastra puja.

Good economic opportunity and prosperity alone does not protect people.

By the way if today's world is all about consumerism and economic growth onlee, why should NM prevent Bangladeshis from entering Bengal? They bring much useful labour, and may be servicing sectors that increasingly prosperous native Bengalis might not be willing to do anymore! In any case, their prosperous ones did not like to do such demeaning tasks as cleaning up, washing up, lifting heavy loads, etc with their noble and delicate hands. So why should not Bangladeshi be allowe dto come in - as far as I know they are quite hardworking, and do some of the dirtier stuff that native Bengalis, especially these most secular Hindu Bengalis will never do - for example tanning leather and the lower end of leather processing. Do you know how much of the tannery and leather industry of WB is dependent on "Muslim" and "Bangladeshi" labour?

So from the prosperity argument alone - NM should open the floodgates and give may be work permits for low end jobs in Bengal?

I hope you have no objection to that, since I guess you support the chi-chi secular line, and therefore must be willing to accept that being peaceful and productive, and having immensely contributed to shaping up modern India in the most positive of ways, more of Bangladeshi muslims should be allowed to come in and settle and work in WB? Everything should subordinated to economic growth and prosperity - nah? And it must be a pleasure to live with such enlightened communities as neighbours among Bengali localities!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Oct 2013 07:18

Its a disconnect from ground realities and changes that Bengali society is quietly undergoing. Its not my piece to draw attention to it. Similar processes going on all along from TN to Assam all along the East. The shame we see in being associated with overt vedic memes - is a relic - I guess of a particular generation born in the '60-'90 phase. The study of patterns of attendance and use of the "pujas" should be giving the signals and signs of things to come.

NM should understand that he should not be seen as giving in to the louder mouthed generation that now demographically and economically dominate the opinion spaces - the 30-50 agegroup, in such mixed bag zones as Bengal. These are like the generations that grew up in post-ww2 USSR - broken and twisted ideologically without even realizing it, and nostalgically attached to while ironically at the same time non-committed to the so-called secular/left-liberal position. It is a confused and opportunistic generation that simply rationalizes its own compromises. This phase is over.

If NM is seen to allow space to Islamism and other such expansive genocidic memes to grow, he will be left beside on the road by the coming generations. Even voices from Bengal will be singing a different tune - if they come on to the forum - in another 10 years.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 14 Oct 2013 09:47

I don't know if this is the best thread, but a few thoughts from mAnasa-taraMgINI. Apart from the Aryans entering India from outside, I agree with most of it :

http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/20 ... al-system/

...The Hindu imitation of the English democratic system, by turning its back on the collective wisdom of manu, yAj~nvalkya, bhIShma, viShNugupta and a host of others resulted in a fundamental misunderstanding of numerous issues:
1) Democracy works best in relatively uniform populations with the same basic cultural bonds. It will start having problems as soon as diversity is introduced in the form of groups that are held by fundamentally different bonds from that of the majority. Experiments establishing this can be seen in the form the events in the past decade in France and Scandinavia among others. As this type diversity increases democracy will collapse.

2) Genuine democracy will lead to “systems failure” when there is great cognitive differential between the masses and elite. This has been diagnosed and correctly described by Amy Chua several years ago.

3) Democracy will have negative effects if the host population has a depressed group fitness relative to the two West Asian monotheisms which reside in its midst.

4)The Aryans upon their entry into India actually gauged the nature of the social diversity pretty well and created systems that could create functional systems despite this diversity, which would have normally crippled formation of any mega-system.
In this the democratic system was restricted to local governments. However, on the global scales the meritorious rAjan, and saMrAT were the one who held sway. Thus, the democracy worked within relatively uniform local groups while they were held in place in the mega-system by the mobile elite comprised of the brahma-kShatra that offered a unifying large-scale ideology and law-enforcement for allowing the vaNija to carry out his trans-regional economic activity.
The Indo-Aryans also weakened the transformation of diversity into separate identity by fostering their functional diversification and thereby creating dependencies between the elements within the overall diversity. This large-scale ideology was reinforced by the grand shrauta rituals.
Hence, a Hindu modern nation can only survive if it shelves any notions of secularity and reinforces its identity through the performance of grand national rituals of the type of the rAjasUya, vAjapeya and ashvamedha or the tAntrika temple rituals that bring together all sections of the society...

Regards,
Virendra

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 14 Oct 2013 10:15

Again I will repeat myself. The way forward is NATIONALISM or "INDIA FIRST". As long as I am a legal citizen of INDIA the same law will apply regardless of my faith. This is true secularism.

No matter how much you shout, the fact is that that Hindu way of life as practiced today is basically a cast way of life and not the Vedic way of life. In those days a Brahmin will lead a life of high virtue and have good qualities found in God and hence was respected by all like "Dev Tullya". Anybody could be a BRAHMIN if he could practice that Brahmin way of life. Today in Bengal a Brahmin eats meat and amasses wealth and kills people. So naturally the faith in the Hindu way of life is lost. In Bengal the SILENT dominance of the upper caste is complete. There is a strong under current of caste based promotion in the society. You pick any position of power or money and you will find a CHAT or a BHAT is there. People will not talk about it openly but if u live and work here u will feel it even from your friends and collegues. U will not be able to unite the common person under the banner of Hindu way of life because it is this very way of life that is bringing so much misery to millions of people so much so that a large percentage of them converted to escape it. You open the news paper and u will see the kind of treatment these people get for being Hindu way of life and there is no response from the state of NATION. These folks will unite under you the moment u promise to bring justice and equality to them which good governance will bring!

I fully aware of COMRADes doing KALI puja in private. But in public they are all COMRADEs. You need to see the kind of mis-goverancne MAMTA is doing in name of VOTE bank which the COMRADes did not do. This will and is triggering backlash as predicted and RIOTs have started to happen in Bengal like UP. Why is there no RIOTs in Guj. Because there is no appeasement and only governance.

Surely there should be a work permit system to allow citizens of other countries like Nepal and Bhutan - not only Bangladesh - to can come in legally and work here. Do u realize that u are sounding more and more like the White Supremacy group? Are u telling me that I cannot go and work in EU even if I have a legal work permit because of my faith regardless of my skill while a Christian from India can go and work in EU illegally?

I am glad the NAMO and RSS does not toe that line of India for Hindus. India is for all those who love it and believe it as its NATION. I would suggest u watch Amir Khan's movie "LAGAN". NAMO need to be emulating the head of the cricket team who harnesses the power of a Brahmin, a muslim, a dalit to defect a much wealthy and well trained and experienced opponent. Do u thin that the kind of hero's welcome he would have got from the crowd if his team only had Brahmins?

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 14 Oct 2013 10:55

I think some big revolution or else a Hindu society reform would be the threshold in the timeline, after which Hindu society would unite.
Until unless the Hindu society unites its own, it cannot unite its vote. In democracy everything dances by how the votes are cast.
There, you have the root cause.

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 14 Oct 2013 11:37

the recent stampede in MP could cost BJP the elections. CM should personally ensure relief to the affected and rein in ministers from blabbering non sense. con has smelled the blood

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 14 Oct 2013 12:19

the way dynasty fungus's have lapped up this temple tragedy arouses suspicion - Foggy kamalnath pm. the probe should go really deeper as to who started rumors. damage control and relief has to go on a massive scale now

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 14 Oct 2013 12:40

subhamoy.das wrote: It is a big time failure of the Polish state that it could not protect its citizens. Do u want the Indian state also to follow this foot step. By your logic there will be only a handful of states left in the world - Christian state, a muslim state, a jewish state, a buddist state, hindu state....and they will be at war with each other all the time like mediaval period?

Reply in off topic thread.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 14 Oct 2013 14:33

subhamoy.das wrote: The hindu way of life that we see in every day life is not some thing to emulate. It is all family business in every walk of life and not a performance based society at all. U may be talking about the Vedic hindu way of life which cannot be practicsed in this 21st century. No matter how much NAMO or RSS wants it simply cannot be rolled out to 1+b people in this yuga of science and technology and consumerism. So what can realistically be practised is the concept of the nation state and its citizens being treated as per the rule of the nation to usher in peace and prosperity and growth. So NAMO should be rolling out uniform civil code, repeal article 370, stop infiltration of Bangladeshis, order a surgical strike inside Pakistan, order a strike brahamos strike next time PLA comes inside Indian territory, build a fast and fair judiciary, free the police of political control etc etc. Shastra puja may have taking in a state like Gujrat but may not find any takers in a state like Bengal. Hindus are divided into to many sub-castes and jatis at this time that the Hindu way of life simply cannot be used to unite them. People care about jobs, schools, education, hospitals, security, Olympic medals, technology innovation - a good quality of life which is other words is the western system of good governance has delivered. So far NAMO is in right direction and getting huge support. The day he starts advocating "Surya Namaskar" in all schools - his rating will start to drop like a stone.

Well, those wish not to do shashtrapuja should be free not to do it. But those who wish to do shashtra-puja, because after all shashtra are needed to have all goodies you mentioned, should continue. I dont know what people of Bengal want. I hope they will also support shashtra-puja. As per NaMo , he did do a puja of guns, but he has never given any call for ALL Indians to worship guns. I would expect a true leader to ask ALL Indians to worship guns. Why should gun puja be restricted to CM , policemen and kshtriya? So I would take his shashtrapuja same as his pro-devalaya speech of 1990s.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 14 Oct 2013 14:38

There is no need to give a special call, Rahul bhai.. All Hindus who have any weapon in their home, worship the weapon on Vijayadashmi. Shastra-pooja is quite common in many police-stations of MH as well. No need to give a clarion call for Shastra-pooja. He has done shastra-pooja which inherently means that he expects others to imitate.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 14 Oct 2013 15:07

subhamoy.das wrote:Again I will repeat myself. The way forward is NATIONALISM or "INDIA FIRST". As long as I am a legal citizen of INDIA the same law will apply regardless of my faith. This is true secularism.

Correct. As long as you are citizen of Republic of India, same laws should be applied to all citizens irrespective of their religions. But we are talking of times prior to ROI and of regions where laws of ROI are not enforced by the admin and politicians due to vote-bank politics.

No matter how much you shout, the fact is that that Hindu way of life as practiced today is basically a cast way of life and not the Vedic way of life. In those days a Brahmin will lead a life of high virtue and have good qualities found in God and hence was respected by all like "Dev Tullya". Anybody could be a BRAHMIN if he could practice that Brahmin way of life. Today in Bengal a Brahmin eats meat and amasses wealth and kills people. So naturally the faith in the Hindu way of life is lost. In Bengal the SILENT dominance of the upper caste is complete. There is a strong under current of caste based promotion in the society. You pick any position of power or money and you will find a CHAT or a BHAT is there. People will not talk about it openly but if u live and work here u will feel it even from your friends and collegues. U will not be able to unite the common person under the banner of Hindu way of life because it is this very way of life that is bringing so much misery to millions of people so much so that a large percentage of them converted to escape it. You open the news paper and u will see the kind of treatment these people get for being Hindu way of life and there is no response from the state of NATION. These folks will unite under you the moment u promise to bring justice and equality to them which good governance will bring!

So what has stopped the bongs from overthrowing the deracinated CHATS and BHATS and reclaim the Hindu heritage for all, hain ji? Why you not form a Hindutva votebank in Bengal? the desecration of temples in 24 Pargana and other districts would not have happened.

Every human being is "Amrutasya Putra" and Paramatma himself. This is Hindu way of life. This is Hindu good news. What is stopping Bengalis from disseminating this message in public? I marvel at the level of tamas that has penetrated the minds of section of our Vanga-bandhus in past 30-40 years. It started with brahmo samaj and has only increased since then especially post jyoti basu's era. If you find a deracinated CHAT or BHAT or MUKH or CHAKRA or DAS or SAMA or KAR or GANG or MAZUM or RAY or BHAU or ANYBODY ELSE, in position of influence and power, it is duty of you people to relieve these guys from their authority. Who is stopping to start a movement to perform upanayanam on all children, irrespective of caste, hain ji? Why blame your tamas on others.

Wait a minute, it is organizations like Hindu Samhati which are doing exactly this. They are trying to convince Hindus to start rallying, start bearing arms and start shastra-pooja. And few of the people doing this thankless job have surnames like Mukharjee and Bhattacharya and Ghosh, can't help it saar.. There are thousands of others too who feel the pain and who are sannyasis and brahmacharis and goswamis and people from all castes. The realities of Bengal are fast changing my friend. Bengali Hindus have to preserve Bengal for Mata. I give you my word, if you do not, Marathas and Sikhs and Rajputs will enter Bengal again and do the needful in their style. They did it latest in 1946 riots. Bengal is as non-negotiable a part of Dashapraharani Durga that is India, as Kashmir is and as Gaandhaar was.

I am glad the NAMO and RSS does not toe that line of India for Hindus. India is for all those who love it and believe it as its NATION. I would suggest u watch Amir Khan's movie "LAGAN". NAMO need to be emulating the head of the cricket team who harnesses the power of a Brahmin, a muslim, a dalit to defect a much wealthy and well trained and experienced opponent. Do u thin that the kind of hero's welcome he would have got from the crowd if his team only had Brahmins?

Lagaan?? Is that the apt metaphor my friend? we are not talking about winning a cricket match and/or an election. We are talking about preservation of dharma in bengal and assam in all its magnificence and glory.

as far as I have understood RSS, their prayer says,"namaste sadaa vatsale matrubhumi, tvayaa HINDUBHUMI sukham vardhitoham" (नमस्ते सदा वत्सले मातृभूमे त्वया हिन्दुभूमे सुखं वर्धितोहम्).. then they go on to pray for "Prabho shaktiman HINDURASHTRANG bhutaa" (प्रभो शक्तिमन् हिन्दुराष्ट्राङ्गभूता)..

I do not know what you mean by word "Hindu", but for RSS, Hindu is one who considers Akhanda-Bhaarat as his/her Pitrubhumi and Punyabhoomi. This does not necessitate mode of worship. If a muslim considers Akhandbhaarat mata as his pitribhumi and punya-bhumi, then he is a Hindu..

niran · Post by **niran** » 14 Oct 2013 16:10

The guardian article is correct in its 12%
the thakurs does influence a large numbers of voters
if they are onree six percent then the influence can be
twelve percent or more, once again it is onree for areas of
UP and Bihar bordering UP

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Oct 2013 16:33

Question is whether it was some Congress goon who caused the panic on the narrow bridge leading to the stampede tragedy. Shivraj Singh Chouhan needs to investigate.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 14 Oct 2013 20:26

Supratik wrote:
Sushupti wrote: Yadavas population is in double figures. Important thing to note is that UCs constitute around 25% of the population. Brahmins population is in double figures as well.
I don't think Yadavs and Brahmins are in double digits in UP. Yadavs are 11% in Bihar. I will dig the numbers and post. Yes, FCs are 20-25%, OBCs 35-40%, dalits 20% Muslims 18%.

Gentlemen,
Voting percentage and direction of these groups differ a lot from their population percentage.
You know what I'm talking about.

Muslims and other religious minorities have the highest voting percentage, with most cohesive (enmasse) direction.
Second are the SC, STs.
Then come the Jats and Yadavs,
followed by Savarna (upper) castes like Brahmins, Thakurs etc.

I think this math matters more than the absolute population figures for the various religions and castes.

Regards,
Virendra

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Oct 2013 00:08

Virendra wrote:I don't know if this is the best thread, but a few thoughts from mAnasa-taraMgINI. Apart from the Aryans entering India from outside, I agree with most of it :

http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/20 ... al-system/

...The Hindu imitation of the English democratic system, by turning its back on the collective wisdom of manu, yAj~nvalkya, bhIShma, viShNugupta and a host of others resulted in a fundamental misunderstanding of numerous issues:
1) Democracy works best in relatively uniform populations with the same basic cultural bonds. It will start having problems as soon as diversity is introduced in the form of groups that are held by fundamentally different bonds from that of the majority. Experiments establishing this can be seen in the form the events in the past decade in France and Scandinavia among others. As this type diversity increases democracy will collapse.

2) Genuine democracy will lead to “systems failure” when there is great cognitive differential between the masses and elite. This has been diagnosed and correctly described by Amy Chua several years ago.

3) Democracy will have negative effects if the host population has a depressed group fitness relative to the two West Asian monotheisms which reside in its midst.

4)The Aryans upon their entry into India actually gauged the nature of the social diversity pretty well and created systems that could create functional systems despite this diversity, which would have normally crippled formation of any mega-system.
In this the democratic system was restricted to local governments. However, on the global scales the meritorious rAjan, and saMrAT were the one who held sway. Thus, the democracy worked within relatively uniform local groups while they were held in place in the mega-system by the mobile elite comprised of the brahma-kShatra that offered a unifying large-scale ideology and law-enforcement for allowing the vaNija to carry out his trans-regional economic activity.
The Indo-Aryans also weakened the transformation of diversity into separate identity by fostering their functional diversification and thereby creating dependencies between the elements within the overall diversity. This large-scale ideology was reinforced by the grand shrauta rituals.
Hence, a Hindu modern nation can only survive if it shelves any notions of secularity and reinforces its identity through the performance of grand national rituals of the type of the rAjasUya, vAjapeya and ashvamedha or the tAntrika temple rituals that bring together all sections of the society...
Regards,
Virendra

Modern Sapta-Sindhu: Restructuring the Indian civilizational state - Part 2

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1508853

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1508872

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1508896

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1509289

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1509553

here are some thoughts on these very lines by your's truly..

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Oct 2013 01:12

Virendra wrote:
Supratik wrote: Yadavas population is in double figures. Important thing to note is that UCs constitute around 25% of the population. Brahmins population is in double figures as well.
I don't think Yadavs and Brahmins are in double digits in UP. Yadavs are 11% in Bihar. I will dig the numbers and post. Yes, FCs are 20-25%, OBCs 35-40%, dalits 20% Muslims 18%.
Voting percentage and direction of these groups differ a lot from their population percentage.
You know what I'm talking about.

Muslims and other religious minorities have the highest voting percentage, with most cohesive (enmasse) direction.
Second are the SC, STs.
Then come the Jats and Yadavs,
followed by Savarna (upper) castes like Brahmins, Thakurs etc.

I think this math matters more than the absolute population figures for the various religions and castes.

Regards,
Virendra

"Brahmins account for 10 percent of the state’s population out of a total 19 percent population belonging to the upper caste in UP."

http://www.tehelka.com/battle-for-brahm ... ies-in-up/
Yadavas are 8.3% in UP as per 1931 census.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 15 Oct 2013 01:57

Pawar: No one’s an untouchable (Asian Age)

Not surprised no mainstream outlet relayed this noose...

NCP supremo and Union minister Sharad Pawar shared the dais with former BJP chief Nitin Gadkari at a function in Nagpur, the second capital of Maharashtra, and praised each other.

The Maratha strongman, who is known to have friends cutting across party lines, made it clear that he does not believe in the politics of untouchability. Mr Pawar felt that politicians should work together to build society with the welfare of the common man as the ultimate objective. According to a PTI report from Nagpur, Mr Pawar said: “There should be no untouchables in politics as well as social work.” He was speaking at a function on Saturday where Mr Gadkari rolled out the business plan of his Purti Group. The coming together of Mr Pawar and Mr Gadkari on the issue of development is seen to be significant.

The talk in political circles is that Mr Gadkari failed to get a second term as BJP president due to the “joint operation” of a section of the BJP and central Congress leaders despite the RSS’ backing. As far as Maharashtra is concerned, chief minister Prithviraj Chavan’s main objective is to discredit and weaken the NCP, with whom the Congress has been sharing power in the state since 1999. This because Mr Chavan strongly feels that the NCP has been the main hurdle in the expansion of the Congress in the state, sources said. Though the Shiv Sena-BJP combine has been the main political adversary of the Congress-NCP, the ruling partners are not antagonising the principle Opposition beyond a point.

Mr Pawar and Mr Gadkari sharing the dais comes at a time when a section of the Congress is opposing giving 22 Lok Sabha seats to the NCP, using different pretexts. As per the seat-sharing arrangement, the Congress will contest 26 and the NCP 22 seats in the state.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Oct 2013 08:46

subhamoy.das wrote:Again I will repeat myself. The way forward is NATIONALISM or "INDIA FIRST". As long as I am a legal citizen of INDIA the same law will apply regardless of my faith. This is true secularism.

No matter how much you shout, the fact is that that Hindu way of life as practiced today is basically a cast way of life and not the Vedic way of life. In those days a Brahmin will lead a life of high virtue and have good qualities found in God and hence was respected by all like "Dev Tullya". Anybody could be a BRAHMIN if he could practice that Brahmin way of life. Today in Bengal a Brahmin eats meat and amasses wealth and kills people. So naturally the faith in the Hindu way of life is lost. In Bengal the SILENT dominance of the upper caste is complete. There is a strong under current of caste based promotion in the society. You pick any position of power or money and you will find a CHAT or a BHAT is there. People will not talk about it openly but if u live and work here u will feel it even from your friends and collegues. U will not be able to unite the common person under the banner of Hindu way of life because it is this very way of life that is bringing so much misery to millions of people so much so that a large percentage of them converted to escape it. You open the news paper and u will see the kind of treatment these people get for being Hindu way of life and there is no response from the state of NATION. These folks will unite under you the moment u promise to bring justice and equality to them which good governance will bring!

I fully aware of COMRADes doing KALI puja in private. But in public they are all COMRADEs. You need to see the kind of mis-goverancne MAMTA is doing in name of VOTE bank which the COMRADes did not do. This will and is triggering backlash as predicted and RIOTs have started to happen in Bengal like UP. Why is there no RIOTs in Guj. Because there is no appeasement and only governance.

Surely there should be a work permit system to allow citizens of other countries like Nepal and Bhutan - not only Bangladesh - to can come in legally and work here. Do u realize that u are sounding more and more like the White Supremacy group? Are u telling me that I cannot go and work in EU even if I have a legal work permit because of my faith regardless of my skill while a Christian from India can go and work in EU illegally?

I am glad the NAMO and RSS does not toe that line of India for Hindus. India is for all those who love it and believe it as its NATION. I would suggest u watch Amir Khan's movie "LAGAN". NAMO need to be emulating the head of the cricket team who harnesses the power of a Brahmin, a muslim, a dalit to defect a much wealthy and well trained and experienced opponent. Do u thin that the kind of hero's welcome he would have got from the crowd if his team only had Brahmins?

You surely were sleeping in dreamland if you were completely unaware of riots under CPI(M) rule. By the way - it was you who picked on preventing Bangladeshi's from coming in - why? That was the reason for my post on if-economics-is-all why-stop-Bangladeshi's post. You have not explained why you do not want them.

And you are now blaming Mamta-didi for "riots"? Both the CPI(M) as well as Trinamool - and of course their common friend the Congressi's are involved. In left rule - the Hindu resistance at the borders would be crushed. Mamta is trying to balance more and leave gaps for both forces to expand. Left had severely and ruthlessly crushed the "Hindu" side onlee.

Regarding all the other chat/bhat there are interesting sides to all that - and it is not onlee Mamta didi's cadre. Chat/bhats are an extreme minority in the population. Majority are non-chat-bhats - and they absolutely dominate the countryside in the power hierarchy.Come on, I can reel off from memory the ranking leadership of almost all the districts up to the zonal level. Chat-bhats dominate at the state level onlee. But exactly the same shenanigans are shown by non-chat-bhats too. Perhaps minus the politeness or formal etiquette, which can be even more galling if you are at the receiving end.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Oct 2013 09:28

Published on Oct 15, 2013
By Rahul Kanwal
Battle for Lalu's vote bank begins after his sentencing in fodder scam: India Today

I've been pointing at this for some time now. Yadavs and Paswans are going to move to BJP on a large scale after Lalu's conviction.

Narendra Modi has put two foxes among the pigeons: Sadhu Yadav and Baba Ramdev, and they are busy bringing the Yadavs to NaMo.

These elections are going to see Jats in UP and Yadavs in Bihar migrating almost wholesale to Hindutva. After 2014 Mulayam in UP is also going to find out that he doesn't have a winning combination anymore, which means more Yadavs in UP also would start leaving him.

By 2019, till OBCs, all Hindus would have consolidated behind BJP. By 2024 Dalits too would be in BJP kitty! By 2024, India would be Congress Mukt Bharat!

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 15 Oct 2013 11:17

brihaspati wrote: And you are now blaming Mamta-didi for "riots"? Both the CPI(M) as well as Trinamool - and of course their common friend the Congressi's are involved. In left rule - the Hindu resistance at the borders would be crushed. Mamta is trying to balance more and leave gaps for both forces to expand. Left had severely and ruthlessly crushed the "Hindu" side onlee.

May be you then want to tell me why the muslims voted enmass against Left if they were so appeased by Left? Why Hindu backlash is happening in Bengal and BJP gaining vote share under TMC rule if TMC was treating the hindus better? Left never put on scul cap, they did not pay stipends to moulovis, they did not participate in id gatterings....so now who is sleeping, u or me?

brihaspati wrote: Regarding all the other chat/bhat there are interesting sides to all that - and it is not onlee Mamta didi's cadre. Chat/bhats are an extreme minority in the population. Majority are non-chat-bhats - and they absolutely dominate the countryside in the power hierarchy.Come on, I can reel off from memory the ranking leadership of almost all the districts up to the zonal level. Chat-bhats dominate at the state level onlee. But exactly the same shenanigans are shown by non-chat-bhats too. Perhaps minus the politeness or formal etiquette, which can be even more galling if you are at the receiving end.

I would advice you to read a recent article in Telegraph which went into the details of dominance of CHAT-BHAT-SEN-GHOSH in Bengal. I am talking about social dominance and not political dominance. And the fact that they are minority yet dominate the social landscape is a testimony of upper caste hoarding resources and wealth. I never believed in this but have seen some of this first hand and so now believe. If you want people of this country to unite behind Hinduwatya then do one thing - get rid of the last name. Arjun did not have one, Nor did Ram, Nor Srikrishna. This Brahmin-bad and family bad must be rolled back for common man to unite under Hindu banner.

Regarding preventing Bangladeshi muslims to enter Bengal, I have already said that legal temporary work permits must be allowed after making sure there are not enough locals to fill the jobs and a strong deportation of illegal immigrants should be done.

niran · Post by **niran** » 15 Oct 2013 12:55

RajeshA wrote:
By 2019, till OBCs, all Hindus would have consolidated behind BJP. By 2024 Dalits too would be in BJP kitty! By 2024, India would be Congress Mukt Bharat!

a ton of tastiest jalebi to you saar.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 15 Oct 2013 14:56

Shubhonmoy ji, instead of importing workers from BDesh why not export factories of leather goods to BDesh. Con race is going for meat industry and exports of meat that can't grow in fields and can't tell where and form which animal meats come from. We don't need pink revolution in India.

Another model is buying land in foreign regions and export labour there.
http://m.indianexpress.com/news/the-glo ... e/1181871/
lot of information, there isn't much focus on sale and buying of land.

The border infiltration needs to be totally stopped.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Oct 2013 17:04

Delhi elections: BJP would win if AAP wasn’t running, says expert

If this comes to pass. The plan would have succeed. The experiment was first tried in AP. Now, it has been replicated in Delhi.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 15 Oct 2013 17:32

BJP gets Harshvardhan for Delhi CM candidate, Vijay Goel dumped - India Today

Highly placed BJP sources told TV Today that the decision to project Harshvardhan has been taken since the party wants to go into the elections with a leader who has a clean image as its CM candidate. It was in February this year that the BJP appointed Vijay Goel as the chief of its Delhi unit. However, his eight-month tenure has seen a high level of factionalism and infighting with the BJP failing to emerge as the natural alternative to the ruling Sheila Dikshit-led Congress Government.

After failing in its experiment with Goel, the BJP seems to have come around to the view that in an urban centre like Delhi, the image of the candidate leading the charge for the party is of paramount importance for voters and Vijay Goel seems to have failed to inspire the trust of the party cadre, with senior leaders receiving multiple complaints about his image and style of functioning.

The decision to anoint Harshvardhan will be formalised over the next few days. Leaders close to Vijay Goel have been strongly opposing attempts to dethrone him, but the party now believes that if they are to have any serious chance of forming the Government in Delhi then they have no option but to dump Goel. The party thinktank believes that there is a high level of disaffection against the Sheila Dikshit government in Delhi and it is not too late for the BJP to reap the anti-Congress vote, if it projects the right candidate.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Oct 2013 17:34

perfect.. things falling in place..

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Oct 2013 18:43

subhamoy.das wrote:
brihaspati wrote: And you are now blaming Mamta-didi for "riots"? Both the CPI(M) as well as Trinamool - and of course their common friend the Congressi's are involved. In left rule - the Hindu resistance at the borders would be crushed. Mamta is trying to balance more and leave gaps for both forces to expand. Left had severely and ruthlessly crushed the "Hindu" side onlee.
May be you then want to tell me why the muslims voted enmass against Left if they were so appeased by Left? Why Hindu backlash is happening in Bengal and BJP gaining vote share under TMC rule if TMC was treating the hindus better? Left never put on scul cap, they did not pay stipends to moulovis, they did not participate in id gatterings....so now who is sleeping, u or me?

You have to look up my posts on WB almost two years before MB came to power. I had predicted the downfall of the Left and ris eof MB at a time when almost none believed it possible. The Muslims still overwhelmingly do not determine overal electoral outcome in WB. They sort of form the tie-breakers. Left fell because of broader non-Muslim tiredness with them and the biz lobby deciding that their interests with centre would be safeguarded at that stage of MB's rapport with Congress.

You are really unaware of the border districts situation under the left. The left did the suppression of Hindu reaction much more efficiently and ruthlessly than MB. I have reasons to say so from first hand knowledge. Left did put up skull-cap - away from media glare. They also joined iftar parties. Take it from me - I was present on many such occasions.

Hindu backlash was something I had also predicted a long time ago - long before you starte dposting on this issue. That backlash had actually arisen among a part of the left in the border districts itself, from within cadre of the CPIM and FB. Initially it was an intra-party rivalry [between the Rabin Deb/Shyamal Chakravarty axis on one hand and the "oldtimers"] that spread on into the districts. Factions arose on each side and then the non-offcial side latched on to the local grievance against mullahcracy as a means of popularity to counterweight the "state-party" centre.

Until that happened - the police and the smuggler nexus was used brutally to finish off all traces of Hindu protest.

MB is in competition with the left and Congress - she cannot hedge on any one side completely. She is not a friend of the "hindus" - but she is less powerful to prevent growth of hindu resistance. That is it.

As to why muslims changed gear?

They never were with the left for any ideological reasons. They WB muslims have increasingly come under Sunni wahabi influence through the madrassahs which maintain connections to both the UP as well as BD sunni orthodoxy. They could sens ethat the majority Hindu were consolidating, and in general going against the Left. They have to latch on to the new force to both subvert as well as maintain a touch with state power. It is state power that protects their criminal networks and flow channels from BD to Pk all the way through GV. [They have significant connections to the "valley" too].

mullahcracy traditionally tactically splits into factions to hedge their bets - so that at least one group of mullahs stay close to state power until they are militarily strong to overthrow the non-Muslims state. Siding with MB was just one such tactical move. It came after the obvious local body elections signs and not earlier.

I would advice you to read a recent article in Telegraph which went into the details of dominance of CHAT-BHAT-SEN-GHOSH in Bengal. I am talking about social dominance and not political dominance. And the fact that they are minority yet dominate the social landscape is a testimony of upper caste hoarding resources and wealth. I never believed in this but have seen some of this first hand and so now believe. If you want people of this country to unite behind Hinduwatya then do one thing - get rid of the last name. Arjun did not have one, Nor did Ram, Nor Srikrishna. This Brahmin-bad and family bad must be rolled back for common man to unite under Hindu banner.

Regarding preventing Bangladeshi muslims to enter Bengal, I have already said that legal temporary work permits must be allowed after making sure there are not enough locals to fill the jobs and a strong deportation of illegal immigrants should be done.

I will deal with this "brahmin-bad" issue later! have to rush for a lecture now. You are not somehow connected to Mayavatiji's minuscule movement in WB - are you?

Again before you accuse me on this - may I request you to search my posts on "caste" distribution of Indian political leadership -especially the communists - on this forum?

What is the problem even if they are illegal - they can be legalized - can't they? If labour is what you think crucial for those types of industries that the Bengali gentleman will not sully his hands with - you should welcome them even if they are illegal!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Oct 2013 20:07

brihaspati wrote:
subhamoy.das wrote:Again I will repeat myself. The way forward is NATIONALISM or "INDIA FIRST". As long as I am a legal citizen of INDIA the same law will apply regardless of my faith. This is true secularism.

No matter how much you shout, the fact is that that Hindu way of life as practiced today is basically a cast way of life and not the Vedic way of life. In those days a Brahmin will lead a life of high virtue and have good qualities found in God and hence was respected by all like "Dev Tullya". Anybody could be a BRAHMIN if he could practice that Brahmin way of life. Today in Bengal a Brahmin eats meat and amasses wealth and kills people. So naturally the faith in the Hindu way of life is lost. In Bengal the SILENT dominance of the upper caste is complete. There is a strong under current of caste based promotion in the society. You pick any position of power or money and you will find a CHAT or a BHAT is there. People will not talk about it openly but if u live and work here u will feel it even from your friends and collegues. U will not be able to unite the common person under the banner of Hindu way of life because it is this very way of life that is bringing so much misery to millions of people so much so that a large percentage of them converted to escape it. You open the news paper and u will see the kind of treatment these people get for being Hindu way of life and there is no response from the state of NATION. These folks will unite under you the moment u promise to bring justice and equality to them which good governance will bring!

I fully aware of COMRADes doing KALI puja in private. But in public they are all COMRADEs. You need to see the kind of mis-goverancne MAMTA is doing in name of VOTE bank which the COMRADes did not do. This will and is triggering backlash as predicted and RIOTs have started to happen in Bengal like UP. Why is there no RIOTs in Guj. Because there is no appeasement and only governance.

Surely there should be a work permit system to allow citizens of other countries like Nepal and Bhutan - not only Bangladesh - to can come in legally and work here. Do u realize that u are sounding more and more like the White Supremacy group? Are u telling me that I cannot go and work in EU even if I have a legal work permit because of my faith regardless of my skill while a Christian from India can go and work in EU illegally?

I am glad the NAMO and RSS does not toe that line of India for Hindus. India is for all those who love it and believe it as its NATION. I would suggest u watch Amir Khan's movie "LAGAN". NAMO need to be emulating the head of the cricket team who harnesses the power of a Brahmin, a muslim, a dalit to defect a much wealthy and well trained and experienced opponent. Do u thin that the kind of hero's welcome he would have got from the crowd if his team only had Brahmins?
You surely were sleeping in dreamland if you were completely unaware of riots under CPI(M) rule. By the way - it was you who picked on preventing Bangladeshi's from coming in - why? That was the reason for my post on if-economics-is-all why-stop-Bangladeshi's post. You have not explained why you do not want them.

And you are now blaming Mamta-didi for "riots"? Both the CPI(M) as well as Trinamool - and of course their common friend the Congressi's are involved. In left rule - the Hindu resistance at the borders would be crushed. Mamta is trying to balance more and leave gaps for both forces to expand. Left had severely and ruthlessly crushed the "Hindu" side onlee.

Regarding all the other chat/bhat there are interesting sides to all that - and it is not onlee Mamta didi's cadre. Chat/bhats are an extreme minority in the population. Majority are non-chat-bhats - and they absolutely dominate the countryside in the power hierarchy.Come on, I can reel off from memory the ranking leadership of almost all the districts up to the zonal level. Chat-bhats dominate at the state level onlee. But exactly the same shenanigans are shown by non-chat-bhats too. Perhaps minus the politeness or formal etiquette, which can be even more galling if you are at the receiving end.

Bji, Can you make your points without being stringent on the poster.

We are all one phamily onlee.

For instance popular sentiment follows power. It is fashionable to decry "Hindu way of life" for that is what the mantra was from dilli sarkar. So it is seen even in the littlest gram/village all over India. One consequence of decrying Hindu way of life is to abuse Chats/Bhats and Sastris. From Muslim mis-rule to British mis-rule to Congress (mis)rule it was one long night of misery for Hindus.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Oct 2013 22:10

ramana ji,
if it was chat-bhat you indicate - I was not the originator of the usage. I have never come across this kind of oblique abuse on a section of Bengal brahmins. If you mean "dreamland" it was tone down from something else that first came to mind. But sorry - if that has been hurtful.

But what he has been saying is a complete denial of the reality of CPI(M) rule in the border districts of WB. I am no great fan of MB, and I had warned how the same rogues that raped/looted/dada-girid under CPIM would shift colour overnight and function for TMC. I have first experience of the border zones in WB and Assam and north Bihar. Nowhere else have any other party done so much violence to destroy hindu resistance to islamist rapine.

Adding to that somekind of exceptionally crass/exploitative behaviour only on a section of Bengal brahmisn while keeping silent on the non-Brahmin and even OBC exploitation [I can reel off cases of misappropriation/eviction/land-grab/coercion/ityadi that I had misfortune to study and report on] is not acceptable. Its a botched picture of the politics which leads to false conclusions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Oct 2013 22:16

I agree its botched picture. As I said sentiment follows power. And its not confined to only some segments of the population. Its with every opportunists/avakashavadis.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 15 Oct 2013 23:54

B, we had predicted on BRF in 96-97 that either the BJP will rise in WB or a nationalist faction of INC will break away most likely under someone like MB. The cosy relationship and match-fixing between INC and Left was not tenable. On top of that 30 yrs of non-performance. Something had to give. MB may not be Hindutvadi but she is not anti-Hindu, so far. She has to survive in a state with 25%+ Muslim votes. So she will make some concessions although she has made several mistakes e.g. stipend for Imams only. IMO, I will be happy if MB performs and holds on till a time the left vote disintegrates like in eastern europe and other political forces take root. That is the best I can hope and dread a return of the left like Kerala.

Subhomoy, there is a lot of confusion in what you are saying.

bhargava · Post by **bhargava** » 16 Oct 2013 06:46

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Oct 2013 11:21

Pratyush wrote:Delhi elections: BJP would win if AAP wasn’t running, says expert

If this comes to pass. The plan would have succeed. The experiment was first tried in AP. Now, it has been replicated in Delhi.

Many Delhi-NCR folks I have met have extreme hatred for BJP-RSS whom they feel represent Religious Hindus. This probably due to INC gravy train and JNU- DU education model.

INC has realised this and has funded the AAP- whose leader claims BJP will loot in 5 days what INC has done in 10 years without any basis. Further, many of the AAP consitients are formerly close aides of the INC leadership.

Opinion poll predicts 18 seats for Kejriwal's party, hung house in Delhi

I hope the Delhi BJP keeps no truck with AAP, for long term BJP betterment it is better that a wafer thin INC-AAP unstable ruling coaltion so that people can see through such games. BJP must strive to either get majority or sit in opposition with INC having a motley crew in Government continuing old policies.

The exploitation of the short Indian public memory by Media and INC is amazing.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 16 Oct 2013 13:30

MP election will be effected by the temple tragedy or not known. I hope there is clarity and people are not swayed by one incident.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 16 Oct 2013 22:14

The survey by C Voter Times Now. Interesting and mostly convincing, except for UP. But the data collected includes data from before Modi's nomination as PM candidate, so I am not sure how to interpret UP projections. However, if it is true, then there is a very serious problem for the BJP in UP.

http://www.indiatvnews.com/politics/nat ... 13062.html

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 16 Oct 2013 22:46

I am summarizing the C-voter survey by state for everyone:

Andhra Pradesh: Total 42, YSR Cong 13, TRS 13, Congress 7, TDP 8, MIM 1.
Arunachal Pradesh: Total 2, Congress 1, BJP 1.
Assam: Total 14, Congress 9, BJP 3, AUDF 1, Bodoland People's Front 1.
Bihar: Total 40: JD(U) 9, BJP 14, RJD 14, LJP 1, Congress 1, Independent 1.
Chhattisgarh: Total 11 : BJP 8, Congress 3.
Goa : Total 2, BJP 1, Congress 1.
Gujarat: Total 26, BJP 22, Congress 4.
Haryana: Total 10 : Congress 5, BJP 4, INLD 1.
Himachal Pradesh: Total 4 : BJP 3, Congress 1.
Jammu & Kashmir: Total 6: NC 2, Congress 1, BJP 1, PDP 1, Ind 1.
Jharkhand: Total 14: BJP 6, JMM 2, JVM 3, Congress 1, Ind 2.
Karnataka: Total 28: Congress 13, BJP 12, JD(S) 3.
Kerala: Total 20: Left Front 13, Congress 4, IUML 2, Kerala Congress(Mani) 1.
Madhya Pradesh: Total 29: BJP 23, Congress 6.
Maharashtra: Total 48: Congress 11, Shiv Sena 14, BJP 13, NCP 6, RPI(Athavale) 2, MNS 2.
Manipur: Total seats 2: Congress 2.
Meghalaya: Total seats 2: Congress 1, Nationalist People's Party 1.
Mizoram: Total seat 1: Independent/Others 1.
Nagaland: Total seat 1: Nagaland People's Front 1.
Odisha: Total seats 21, Biju Janata Dal 12, Congress 9.
Punjab: Total seats 13, Congress 4, Akali Dal 7, BJP 2.
Rajasthan: Total seats: 25, BJP 19, Congress 5, Ind 1.
Sikkim: Total seat 1, Sikkim Democratic Front 1.
Tamil Nadu: Total seats 39, AIADMK 28, DMK 5, Congress 1, CPI 1, MDMK 1, DMDK 2, Viduthalai Chiruthaigal Katchi 1.
Tripura: Total seats 2: CPI (M) 2.
Uttar Pradesh: Total seats 80, Samajwadi Party 25, BSP 31, BJP 17, Congress 5, RLD 2.
Uttarakhand: Total seats 5, BJP 5.
West Bengal: Total seats 42, Trinamool Congress 23, Left Front 16, Congress 3.
Delhi: Total seats 7, BJP 4, Congress 3.
Union Territories: Total 6, BJP 4, Congress 1, Ind/Others 1.

Overall BJP 162 and Congress 102.

What I have highlighted in red is where I feel that the survey is over estimating the BJP and the blue is where I feel they are under estimating the BJP performance. The ones where I have left as bolded with black are states where things are still churning (alliances) and nothing can be said.

Unless they have some inside info on BJP-INLD alliance, I see no hope for BJP in Haryana. Punjab too is a goner. Himachal is reeling under a virbhadra singh wave and I see no hope for BJP to get 3/4 seats. The congress seems to be repeating the same vote split tactic in orissa to reduce BJD's performance. They must be smoking Pot to say that BJP will get 6 seats in Jharkhand after cong-jmm have allied and Marandi has called Modi corrupt (meaning no alliance). Anyway they survey has been done assuming BJP goes alone and congress-jmm ally. Delhi usually delivers a clean sweep, so they may gain 2 seats there. Overall they will get 5 seats less than projected here ( i guess well within error margin).

Karnataka and Maharashtra are 2 states where the BJP can do better with right alliances, but in UP and Bihar, they may be in trouble. I am not sure if their Bihar tally will hold after congress finalizes its alliances. In UP, we all know about the impending Cong-BSP alliance. That will change all this.

BJP can bump its tally up in Karnataka by 3-4 seats and 3 Maharashtra also to neutralize the 5 seat defect in the other states. This then again boils down to what moves the congress has in UP and Bihar.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 16 Oct 2013 23:01

muraliravi wrote: Karnataka and Maharashtra are 2 states where the BJP can do better with right alliances, but in UP and Bihar, they may be in trouble. I am not sure if their Bihar tally will hold after congress finalizes its alliances. In UP, we all know about the impending Cong-BSP alliance. That will change all this.

BJP can bump its tally up in Karnataka by 3-4 seats and 3 Maharashtra also to neutralize the 5 seat defect in the other states. This then again boils down to what moves the congress has in UP and Bihar.

No - in Karnataka, even getting 12 requires a return of Yeddy, AND a united BJP facing the Congress. Even so, getting 12 looks like a tall order.