Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

[Nikhil_Naya]

https://x.com/shreedharsingh9/status/19 ... 8820081124 ---> So we are going to develop the M88-4

From Saurav Jha, dated 30 Dec 2024.

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1873662546198356248 ---> Collaborative work on the M88-4 'ECO' is definitely a possibility and should be seen as a contingency plan. Of course, it needs to be done in 2025 itself. There is no point in waiting around to see what the Americans do with the F-414 deal. Obviously, contingencies are expensive.

Yes Admiral, I was just referring to the fact that it came from the horses mouth - no longer might happen . I just hope the GTRE continues to develop something on their own as well for the future.

[Manish_P]

Whew...

Thank you Trump ji. Many many thanks.

[maitya]

I think it is official now - Safran is the selected partner.

BIG Announcement: India To Build 5th Generation Fighter Jets, Announces Rajnath Singh
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/indi ... -152508111
22 August 2025

https://x.com/shreedharsingh9/status/19 ... 8820081124 ---> So we are going to develop the M88-4

Series of my tweets on this:
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958889504938344854
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958891588681187555
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958892925137424495
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958899924999053547
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958900684109316244
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958900990024863885

Doubt AMCA TF intended thrust is poss, without reaching ~78Kg/s Massflow. Similarly 2100deg K TeT certainly means 500deg film-cooling + 200 deg TBC, to reach 4Gen SC (~1120/30deg C) raw metal temp. Plus CMC LPT blades etc
A brand new core, but can be called anything (M88-4/Ganga)

To fathom level of Tech leapfrogging, do note current M88-2 manages
i) 350deg film-cooling + 150deg TBC for ~1580deg C TeT with 1st Gen SC (of 1050/60 deg C raw-metal temp)
ii) 65kg/s mass-flow + 24.5 OPR - I doubt this OPR will allow higher TeT (-ve work extraction impact etc)

To go from 350deg to 450-500deg, film cooling a brand new tech (e.g. diffusion cooling) is required, std laser hole drilling may not be sufficient. Plus maybe lamellar cooling tech etc for the combustor.
This is already getting to Unobtanium level of tech dev ask ...

However wrt F414-class TF (~62KN/98KN), the beauty of M88-2's existing high TeT, would allow for higher mass flow (~75-78Kg/s), without having to tinker with the OPR too much (some is inevitable) to keep resultant SFC degradation in control. Higher mass-flow -> Higher dry-thrust.

And they can also look at higher Gen SC to add maybe 30odd deg C TeT as well, mitigating the SFC impact somewhat. The existing cooling arch (incl TBC) is sufficient as TeT not increased too much.
So net-net, relatively easier (quicker) D&D path compared to AMCA's 5th Gen TF D&D.

Refer to this post for a similar "upgrade" path related post (for Kaveri).

However, the work-share poster for AMCA TF joint D&D, talks about 2000deg K (and not 2100deg K) as the TeT aim ... so that'd mean 400 (500)deg film-cooling + 200 deg TBC, to reach 4Gen SC (~1120/30deg C) raw metal temp.
Much better/doable, stepping up from M88-2's current cooling architecture of 350deg film-cooling + 150 deg TBC.

Another important point is wrt count of HPC stages - says 5 only - which means the SPR levels of these stages will have to go up, plus advanced secondary-loss features implemented mandatorily. That's another difficult tech to master.

[Khalsa]

Whew...

Thank you Trump ji. Many many thanks.

Ironic, so true.
everytime it takes a tragedy and or betrayal to move us forward.

[VKumar]

America's role in Indian air technology development must be lauded. FBW for Tejas, Cryogenic engines for rockets ...

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 3421163822 ---> India-France JV for 120kN engine worth US $7 billion to cleared by CCS soon.

[Rakesh]

DRDO's Collaboration With Safran For The AMCA Engine

In this episode, we discuss the options India has to develop the turbofan jet engine that will power the AMCA.

[Rakesh]

Below is why we do not have our own turbofan. But ready to invest billions in doing screwdrivergiri on foreign platforms.

https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1737775857786290317 ---> Standing committee on Defence reports are a goldmine. First up - Dr Kamat laying it out. We do not invest enough.

[Rakesh]

Below is why we do not have our own turbofan. But ready to invest billions in doing screwdrivergiri on foreign platforms.

https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1737775857786290317 ---> Standing committee on Defence reports are a goldmine. First up - Dr Kamat laying it out. We do not invest enough.

India’s Jet Engine Push: HAL-GE Talks For Tejas Mk2 Near Closure, DRDO-Safran To Collaborate For AMCA
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indias- ... e-for-amca
25 August 2025

Safran And India To Co-Develop Engines To Power AMCA

India and France’s Safran will co-develop a 120 kN engine for the AMCA Mk‑2 stealth fighter, marking a major step toward propulsion self-reliance. The AMCA will debut as Mk‑1 with US-made GE F414 engines, followed by the indigenous Safran–India powerplant with supercruise and full tech transfer. The ₹61,000 crore deal builds on deep Indo-French defence ties, including Shakti turboshafts and the upcoming Aravalli engine. Concerns persist regarding past limited technology transfer, localisation delays, cost issues, and Safran’s choice of scaled M88 architecture over Variable Cycle Engine technology, which could limit long-term adaptability against future sixth-generation fighters, despite near-term reliability gains.

[Kailash]

90kN effort with an enhanced dry version based on KDE?

3D Thrust Vectoring के साथ 120 KN jet engine - 90KN Kaveri Engine Confirmed

In a significant boost to India's fifth-generation fighter jet ambitions, officials from the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) have confirmed to idrw.org that the indigenously developed 120kN class engine will incorporate thrust vectoring technology. This locally designed capability is expected to be a game-changer for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program, pushing it toward a 5.5-generation platform. According to GTRE, the new engine will be designed to integrate advanced 3D thrust vectoring nozzles, developed entirely in India. These nozzles will not only enhance the aircraft's maneuverability but will also be optimized for rear-aspect stealth, reducing the radar cross-section (RCS) from the back-traditionally one of the most challenging areas for stealth aircraft.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/PattyInnovate/status/1962153329519137255 ---> This year, we’re bringing 2 jet engine test beds online. Each capable of measuring 100’s of critical data points synchronised in real time — thrust, fuel flow, RPM, vibration, temps, pressures. The goal: build a database of test data we couldn’t have imagined a few years ago. Can’t even explain how much time and energy is going into getting these test cells up and running. Once they’re online, the kind of data we’ll get is going to change the game for us. That’s the grind right now. #DGPropulsion #JetEngines #TestCells #AeroEngineering

[Rakesh]

Raphe mPhibr's Corporate Website ---> https://www.raphe.com/

VIDEO: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1961804183960736246 ---> Defence Minister Rajnath Singh & CM Yogi inaugurated Raphe mPhibr's new defence & engine-testing facility at # Noida today.

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1961807958423290290 ---> Raphe mPhibr's defense equipment and engine-testing facility was inaugurated today in Noida by CM @myogioffice and Defense minister @rajnathsingh

[Rakesh]

India–France Jet Engine Pact Nears Takeoff
https://chakranewz.com/defence-and-aero ... rs-takeoff
19 July 2025

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1963951633295118517 ---> KDE has completed almost all of it's trials, GTRE has convinced IAF for a LCA airframe. HAL is the integrating partner of Kaveri afterburner variant with LCA Tejas. The integration work has been started, nearly 50 hours of flight data of Kaveri has been gathered and in next 8 months Integration is to be completed is what they said, in which first 2 months flight data analysis will happen (which is currently happening). KDE has been flown with RPSA flight profile and validation has been over. Initial problem like weight, quick stall issue, oil leaks, vibration has been rectified.

[Rakesh]

Rolls-Royce to set up MRO facility in Tamil Nadu, says state govt
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 22023.html
04 Sept 2025

“It plans to set up an MRO facility, an R&D and training centre, and significantly expand its IAMPL joint venture in Hosur. With Tamil Nadu being home to one of India’s two Defence Industrial Corridors, this engagement with Rolls-Royce underscores the state’s potential as a hub for advanced aerospace manufacturing,” the industries department said.

[uddu]

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1963951633295118517 ---> KDE has completed almost all of it's trials, GTRE has convinced IAF for a LCA airframe. The integration work has been started. Initial problem like weight, quick stall issue, oil leaks, vibration has been rectified.

Suddenly, so many good news coming from Kaveri Derivative on Tejas and IAF Convinced to BF Light tank, EMALS Carrier and so on
Der aye Durast aye

[uddu]

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1963963456551579863
@Rethik_D
#Update
GTRE has initiated a new project called "Advanced Turbo gas generator"(ATGG) a small gas turbine for UAV Applications.
Prototype realization will be completed by Q4 2025 and certification by 2027. Indigenous content of this engine will be more than 95%.

[pravula]

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1963951633295118517 ---> KDE has completed almost all of it's trials, GTRE has convinced IAF for a LCA airframe. The integration work has been started. Initial problem like weight, quick stall issue, oil leaks, vibration has been rectified.

Why does GTRE need to convince IAF? Why can’t they order a new build from HAL? As far as we know, there are a bunch of airframes gathering dust without engines…They can have one pronto. Unless they need one of the TDs which are fully instrumented.

[VinodTK]

K. Rajalakshmi Menon interview | Director General of Aeronautical Systems

Director General of Aeronautical Systems, DRDO (K. Rajalakshmi Menon) explains how India has mastered 4th-generation fighter engine technology, and is now pushing towards 5th and even 6th generation. She also highlights the importance of consistent funding. Miss Menon seems to be pretty confident about the current state of affairs regarding aircraft engines. Says research work in India is heading in the right direction. Ecosystem has come up (industry and academia). Foreign firms willing to partner with India now.

[uddu]

^^^She got emotional while answering whether Kaveri is dead question. Timeline: 10:40 12:40 timeline. Also you can see the happiness when talking about #FundKaveri campaign by citizens. 13.20

[Kailash]

Flown on an indigenous platform.. so Kaveri will go straight on to Tejas mk1/2. The confidence should be high, to skip a twin engine platform like a mig29 and directly put it on a single engine. Hoping this happens within the next 2-3 years

[uddu]

Flown on an indigenous platform.. so Kaveri will go straight on to Tejas mk1/2. The confidence should be high, to skip a twin engine platform like a mig29 and directly put it on a single engine. Hoping this happens within the next 2-3 years

Rakesh Sir posted above details about timeline.
The Integration work has been started ,nearly 50 hours of flight data of Kaveri has been gathered and in next 8 months Integration is to be completed is what they said,in which first 2 months flight data analysis will happen(which is currently happening).

[Rakesh]

Rakesh Sir...

Aiyoo! Please no Sir

[Rakesh]

Twitter Thread...

https://x.com/aarkayn/status/1964477621745701207 ---> SIX REASONS, India should launch KAVERI 2.0

GE misses LCA engine delivery in August; LCA Tejas Mk-1A production yet to pick up speed.

[A Sharma]

The Kaveri programme has moved on to stealth from jet
https://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/20 ... india.html
07 Sept 2025

The Kaveri programme wanted to make an Indian engine for an Indian fighter jet. But that did not work out. Now, the Kaveri Derivative Engine will power India’s stealth combat aerial platform.

[Rakesh]

Twitter Thread...

https://x.com/aarkayn/status/1964477621745701207 ---> SIX REASONS, India should launch KAVERI 2.0

GE misses LCA engine delivery in August; LCA Tejas Mk-1A production yet to pick up speed.

https://x.com/infinite_varsh/status/1964585674465825163 ---> Literally #FundKaveriEngine

[uddu]

https://x.com/shiv_cybersurg/status/1964852283453378965
@shiv_cybersurg
Indigenous Engine insight from Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar. Hope newer generations learn

[Kailash]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1964943388022915317 ---> Is that Kaveri Dry + Afterburners? If the image is indeed recent, it warrants close attention. The frontal section hints at a reworked fan architecture, while the visible afterburner suggests possible integration of an AB on the Dry Kaveri though it may also relate to the earlier Kaveri Aero variant, which had incorporated certain modifications. If validated, these indicators represent a positive development, though their significance rests entirely on the image’s recency.

[maitya]

On X: @shreedharsingh9 have posted,

this image/poster, which states purportedly a "new" Kaveri variant with increased BPR (0.20) and reduced OPR (20.5):

Wrt which here're some of my comments in X:

1. That's seriously interesting - if BPR is being increased (from 0.16) then there'll be that much more addn bypass mass-flow (that contributes to dry-thrust). That means a redesigned Fan/LPC with increased SPRs (to say 4.0), would immediately incr the over-all dry thrust.

2. But decr mass-flow thru core should have been done after an proportionate incr in TeT levels, so that impact to core-dry-thrust component is minimised. This in indeed very interesting.

3. Yep, not sure why though - normally incr in BPR results in lower OPR (via lower HPC PR), if the intent is to keep the dry-thrust levels same. Remember TeT & OPR needs to incr proportionately, for optimum work-extraction at the Turbine stages. But why not ask for addn dry-thrust?

4. On 2nd thoughts, for KDE with a distortion tolerant Fan design, such SPR incr maybe difficult (not impossible). But baseline Kaveri doesn't require such a level of distortion tolerance capability, so a new Fan (with higher SPR) can be thought of (in conjunction with KDE core).

[maitya]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1964943388022915317 ---> Is that Kaveri Dry + Afterburners? If the image is indeed recent, it warrants close attention. The frontal section hints at a reworked fan architecture, while the visible afterburner suggests possible integration of an AB on the Dry Kaveri though it may also relate to the earlier Kaveri Aero variant, which had incorporated certain modifications. If validated, these indicators represent a positive development, though their significance rests entirely on the image’s recency.

That certainly looks like a A/B integrated Kaveri - not sure if this is KDE+A/B or a baseline K9+brand new A/B (maybe from Brahmos Aerospace).
But either way, certainly a +ve development ...

[Rakesh]

The Kaveri programme has moved on to stealth from jet
https://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/20 ... india.html
07 Sept 2025

Image in tweet below has been reproduced from the link above...

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1964930329011265607 ---> That Kaveri engine did not perform well didn’t wake up the political leadership. That we were signing direct import and ToT deals for engines and half of our fleet dependent on US didn’t wake up our decision makers. Even when Safran offered a deal in 2017-18 we turned away for a paltry amount of ₹5500 crore. It was ONLY and ONLY after GE started delaying engines for 20 months that suddenly asses in south Block were on fire. When the IAF fleet is down to 2/3rd sanctioned sqdn strength and Tejas was the only downside program that can give quick numbers. That’s how much of an importance defence gets in any govt post 1990. And Modi has just been equally or more bad at it. He just didn’t want defence to take any more governance bandwidth and indigenous defence R&D anymore fiscal bandwidth than was bare minimum required.

China knew that it was starting from far behind the West in Jet Engines. That’s why they spent much more in the same period than the equivalent US/UK/projects. Because they spent on establishing the R&D base and mfg base and the reverse engineering. Indian leadership very weirdly still thinks it can get frontier tech by just will and push in a post Mandal, post IT boom pay world. This peculiar, “I won’t invest something unless it is absolutely necessary and when it does suddenly I want all systems to work in mission mode” that’s not how it works.

[Rakesh]

The Kaveri programme has moved on to stealth from jet
https://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/20 ... india.html
07 Sept 2025

The Week put the following image on the cover of the magazine...

https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1965007407496696128 ---> Nice Cover

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1964949765881553357 ---> Strategic autonomy is always a costly foreign policy. You need to pay for it in indigenous capabilities, in costlier development cycles, in higher than required redundant capacities for exigencies, to create hedges for risky geopolitical changes. When a nation practises strategic autonomy and shouts out even more loud about it without investing in commensurate domestic capability strength that bubble’s gonna burst soon. External dependencies will play themselves out. In software, chips, engines, energy, and many others. This is a place where you can’t just go sequential. You have to fire in all cylinders all at once.

[uddu]

S.V. Ramana Murty interview | Director of Gas Turbine Research Establishment

In this exclusive interview, Senior Assistant Editor Sanjib Kr Baruah speaks with S.V. Ramana Murty, Director of the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), who explains how the Kaveri engine is being developed for unmanned combat aerial vehicles. He also discusses why India has faced challenges in producing an indigenous aero engine so far.

[Rakesh]

...

Please click on the edit button in your post and kindly follow the format when posting YT videos. Thanks.

[uddu]

...

Please click on the edit button in your post and kindly follow the format when posting YT videos. Thanks.

Could you please point to the Format page?
You could add a "Format for posting News, Youtube, Images to threads" page to the faq page.
app.php/help/faq

[Rakesh]

Could you please point to the Format page?
You could add a "Format for posting News, Youtube, Images to threads" page to the faq page.
app.php/help/faq

Please see this link ---> viewtopic.php?p=1523953#p1523953

[Kailash]

That certainly looks like a A/B integrated Kaveri - not sure if this is KDE+A/B or a baseline K9+brand new A/B (maybe from Brahmos Aerospace).
But either way, certainly a +ve development ...

Should be the KDE. It is the most natural evolution sir. Technologically, manufacturing wise and level of testing progress, KDE does have some adv on top of the baseline Kaveri. Would we have anything inherently incompatible between the KDE and Brahmos A/B?

[uddu]

Please see this link ---> viewtopic.php?p=1523953#p1523953

Thank you.

[VishnuS]

Sir, is KDE a one to one replica of Kaveri Engine in terms of metallurgy or newer materials used!?

I remember reading one of your post where even after development of K9, newer materials were developed, but they were not used because it could disturb the existing setup (sorry, but this is how I remembered, I remember essence, not technical stuff).

If the new materials were used, will we see a jump in thrust!? Can't say where I read, but I remember dry thrust going up from 46Kn to 52Kn.

One more thing sir, assuming KDE achieved 52Kn, putting the reliability, maintenance aside, this is higher than F404 dry thrust under Indian conditions!? Is KDE under these circumstances, good enough to put on LCA and flight test!? I remember reading about 50 hours of testing done on ground and GTRE/DRDO requested a Tejas for loan and next year we may see Tejas with Kaveri (not sure it is KDE, or Kaveri with Brahmos AB)

I probably believe you might have already answered this, sorry for using you like a google asking the same questions again and again sir.