Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

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Nikhil_Naya
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Nikhil_Naya »

Rakesh wrote: 23 Aug 2025 00:00
Rakesh wrote: 22 Aug 2025 23:58
https://x.com/shreedharsingh9/status/19 ... 8820081124 ---> So we are going to develop the M88-4
From Saurav Jha, dated 30 Dec 2024.

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1873662546198356248 ---> Collaborative work on the M88-4 'ECO' is definitely a possibility and should be seen as a contingency plan. Of course, it needs to be done in 2025 itself. There is no point in waiting around to see what the Americans do with the F-414 deal. Obviously, contingencies are expensive.
Yes Admiral, I was just referring to the fact that it came from the horses mouth - no longer might happen :). I just hope the GTRE continues to develop something on their own as well for the future.
Manish_P
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Whew...

Thank you Trump ji. Many many thanks.
maitya
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by maitya »

Rakesh wrote: 22 Aug 2025 23:58
Nikhil_Naya wrote: 22 Aug 2025 20:53 I think it is official now - Safran is the selected partner.

BIG Announcement: India To Build 5th Generation Fighter Jets, Announces Rajnath Singh
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/indi ... -152508111
22 August 2025
https://x.com/shreedharsingh9/status/19 ... 8820081124 ---> So we are going to develop the M88-4
Series of my tweets on this:
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958889504938344854
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958891588681187555
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958892925137424495
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958899924999053547
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958900684109316244
https://x.com/maity50983/status/1958900990024863885
Doubt AMCA TF intended thrust is poss, without reaching ~78Kg/s Massflow. Similarly 2100deg K TeT certainly means 500deg film-cooling + 200 deg TBC, to reach 4Gen SC (~1120/30deg C) raw metal temp. Plus CMC LPT blades etc
A brand new core, but can be called anything (M88-4/Ganga)

To fathom level of Tech leapfrogging, do note current M88-2 manages
i) 350deg film-cooling + 150deg TBC for ~1580deg C TeT with 1st Gen SC (of 1050/60 deg C raw-metal temp)
ii) 65kg/s mass-flow + 24.5 OPR - I doubt this OPR will allow higher TeT (-ve work extraction impact etc)

To go from 350deg to 450-500deg, film cooling a brand new tech (e.g. diffusion cooling) is required, std laser hole drilling may not be sufficient. Plus maybe lamellar cooling tech etc for the combustor.
This is already getting to Unobtanium level of tech dev ask ...

However wrt F414-class TF (~62KN/98KN), the beauty of M88-2's existing high TeT, would allow for higher mass flow (~75-78Kg/s), without having to tinker with the OPR too much (some is inevitable) to keep resultant SFC degradation in control. Higher mass-flow -> Higher dry-thrust.

And they can also look at higher Gen SC to add maybe 30odd deg C TeT as well, mitigating the SFC impact somewhat. The existing cooling arch (incl TBC) is sufficient as TeT not increased too much.
So net-net, relatively easier (quicker) D&D path compared to AMCA's 5th Gen TF D&D.

Refer to this post for a similar "upgrade" path related post (for Kaveri).
However, the work-share poster for AMCA TF joint D&D, talks about 2000deg K (and not 2100deg K) as the TeT aim ... so that'd mean 400 (500)deg film-cooling + 200 deg TBC, to reach 4Gen SC (~1120/30deg C) raw metal temp.
Much better/doable, stepping up from M88-2's current cooling architecture of 350deg film-cooling + 150 deg TBC.

Another important point is wrt count of HPC stages - says 5 only - which means the SPR levels of these stages will have to go up, plus advanced secondary-loss features implemented mandatorily. That's another difficult tech to master.
Khalsa
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Khalsa »

Manish_P wrote: 23 Aug 2025 07:12 Whew...

Thank you Trump ji. Many many thanks.
Ironic, so true.
everytime it takes a tragedy and or betrayal to move us forward.
VKumar
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by VKumar »

America's role in Indian air technology development must be lauded. FBW for Tejas, Cryogenic engines for rockets ...
Rakesh
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 3421163822 ---> India-France JV for 120kN engine worth US $7 billion to cleared by CCS soon.

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Rakesh
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

DRDO's Collaboration With Safran For The AMCA Engine

In this episode, we discuss the options India has to develop the turbofan jet engine that will power the AMCA.

Rakesh
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Below is why we do not have our own turbofan. But ready to invest billions in doing screwdrivergiri on foreign platforms.

https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1737775857786290317 ---> Standing committee on Defence reports are a goldmine. First up - Dr Kamat laying it out. We do not invest enough.

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Rakesh
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Re: Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote: 25 Aug 2025 01:28 Below is why we do not have our own turbofan. But ready to invest billions in doing screwdrivergiri on foreign platforms.

https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1737775857786290317 ---> Standing committee on Defence reports are a goldmine. First up - Dr Kamat laying it out. We do not invest enough.
India’s Jet Engine Push: HAL-GE Talks For Tejas Mk2 Near Closure, DRDO-Safran To Collaborate For AMCA
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indias- ... e-for-amca
25 August 2025

Safran And India To Co-Develop Engines To Power AMCA

India and France’s Safran will co-develop a 120 kN engine for the AMCA Mk‑2 stealth fighter, marking a major step toward propulsion self-reliance. The AMCA will debut as Mk‑1 with US-made GE F414 engines, followed by the indigenous Safran–India powerplant with supercruise and full tech transfer. The ₹61,000 crore deal builds on deep Indo-French defence ties, including Shakti turboshafts and the upcoming Aravalli engine. Concerns persist regarding past limited technology transfer, localisation delays, cost issues, and Safran’s choice of scaled M88 architecture over Variable Cycle Engine technology, which could limit long-term adaptability against future sixth-generation fighters, despite near-term reliability gains.

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