LCA News and Discussions

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Dec 2010 23:42

Also will they do away with the airbrakes, once the MLG doors are used as airbrakes? I think not, because during landing the MLG doors are anyways open. They still need the air brakes to slow the plane down sufficiently

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 30 Dec 2010 01:59

^^^
I think you are taking only about Landing when the doors will be open. During landing we would also have parachutes as well to brake.
But they are taking about opening doors to brake in mid air.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Dec 2010 02:34

^^^ I am speaking of the same.

Once the MLG follow up doors are used as airbrakes, will we continue to have our present airbrakes? Not having them is weight saved. Currently it matches up with the drag creation with the airbrakes deployed at 60 degrees. May be we can slightly increase the size of the MLG follow up door to produce equivalent drag of the airbrakes at maximum deflection? The increase will not be much, most probably it will be around 10-20%.

But will the MLG doors alone be able to provide sufficient deceleration while landing was my initial question. The answer to that may be that we might not need that much of deceleration while landing on the IAF version. The first Tejas prototypes did without them. The approach or the landing run will need to change.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2010 07:23

indranilroy wrote:Also will they do away with the airbrakes, once the MLG doors are used as airbrakes? I think not, because during landing the MLG doors are anyways open. They still need the air brakes to slow the plane down sufficiently

In fact that other "small fighter" the Gnat (or was it the Ajeet version) used its landing gear doors as airbrakes.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2010 08:41

P.S. Broadsword was right when he said that the strakes on the HJT 36 were anti spin. We (including me) had shot him down here

Err. Are the brakes in your car or motorcycle "anti accident" ?

Those strakes are vortex generators and all they will do is make sure that they will shed vortices consistently and everytime at that flight regime. In the absence of which there will be situations there can be vortices that shed randomly and asymmetrically on either side of the nose (it will shed on one side and after a certain time on another, giving rise to oscillation, that is the classic textbook study on it,google for it , text books explain the case for a sphere and you can find it)

So what they basically did was to make sure that the vortices were shed predictably and made it more controllable (especially at higher AoA)

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Dec 2010 09:30

shiv wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Also will they do away with the airbrakes, once the MLG doors are used as airbrakes? I think not, because during landing the MLG doors are anyways open. They still need the air brakes to slow the plane down sufficiently
In fact that other "small fighter" the Gnat (or was it the Ajeet version) used its landing gear doors as airbrakes.

There are other examples as well

.

My question is simple. If the MLG door is used as airbrakes will we still retain the present airbrakes.

Pros: Doing away with them saves weight.

Cons: While the LCA lands it has the MLG door open and the airbrakes deployed. So its approach without this airbrakes would be longer/faster. How much? I don't know

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Dec 2010 10:34

vina wrote:
P.S. Broadsword was right when he said that the strakes on the HJT 36 were anti spin. We (including me) had shot him down here
Err. Are the brakes in your car or motorcycle "anti accident" ?

Those strakes are vortex generators and all they will do is make sure that they will shed vortices consistently and everytime at that flight regime. In the absence of which there will be situations there can be vortices that shed randomly and asymmetrically on either side of the nose (it will shed on one side and after a certain time on another, giving rise to oscillation, that is the classic textbook study on it,google for it , text books explain the case for a sphere and you can find it)

So what they basically did was to make sure that the vortices were shed predictably and made it more controllable (especially at higher AoA)

I am quite aware of what you are asking me to read here.

I do not understand whether your objection is nomenclature wise or functionality wise.

The primarily role of these strakes is to break the asymmetric vortex shredding at the nose cone region and hence assist in correcting flat spin. The side effect of that is that they will form vortices at all parts of the flight regime. If the primary idea was to generate vortices at high AoA one would put short and sharp vortices near the wing, like on the Typhoon, Mirage 2000 etc. The nose strakes are far, long (weight penalty) and blunt at the corners. The nose strakes are for providing symmetric vortex shedding including at high AoA. So if you go functionality wise those nose strakes are anti-spin devices.

By the way this is what you had written earlier when Shuklaji's post had come out.

Shook Law went off the deep end in that article. Way beyond his depth. He cant recognize stuff even if someone hits him on the face with a wet undie and tells him so. Re - IJT spin tests , he looks at the strakes on the nose and the ventral strakes below the engine and calls them as "anti spin" devices, when in reality, the strake on the nose is a vortex generator (exactly the same functions as LERX) and the ventral strakes are to shed tip vortices and improve damping in roll to give better yaw control in high Angles of Attack. Together they give greater stability in high AoA . How it becomes "anti spin" (that is the function of the parachute in anti spin testing) boggles my imagination.

Anyways I am not interested in friendly fire

. I replied because we asked me to

.

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Dec 2010 11:05

The primarily role of these strakes is to break the asymmetric vortex shredding at the nose cone region and hence assist in correcting flat spin

More like preventing the plane from going into a flat spin by removing one of the causes of the side fore that will make it go into it. If the vortex is shed from both sides predictably at all times, there is effectively no side force.

It is exactly like a LERX you see in a F-18/F-16 /Mig-29/Su-30 what have you. In those planes, it cant go all the way to the nose tip ,because those planes have radars and the nose cone is an empty shell, while in the AJT, it can be placed right at the nose (no radar),which is exactly where you need it , and it is. The idea fundamentally is to improve control at higher AoA by making the nose stable and preventing yaw.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Dec 2010 20:24

vina wrote:
The primarily role of these strakes is to break the asymmetric vortex shredding at the nose cone region and hence assist in correcting flat spin
More like preventing the plane from going into a flat spin by removing one of the causes of the side fore that will make it go into it. If the vortex is shed from both sides predictably at all times, there is effectively no side force.

Ofcourse it will help in prevention. You are one of the best informed posters here. I didn't think I would have to add another sentence for that . I put in whatever I wrote because I was read somewhere that the trainers make a student learn how to get out of a flatspin. The trainer intentionally makes the plane enter a flat spin from where the student is expected to recover the plane. That recovery was very difficult without the nose strakes.

vina wrote:It is exactly like a LERX you see in a F-18/F-16 /Mig-29/Su-30 what have you. In those planes, it cant go all the way to the nose tip ,because those planes have radars and the nose cone is an empty shell, while in the AJT, it can be placed right at the nose (no radar),which is exactly where you need it , and it is. The idea fundamentally is to improve control at higher AoA by making the nose stable and preventing yaw.

The primary work of the LERXs is to generate a high-speed vortex that attaches to the top of the wing. The vortex action maintains a smooth airflow over the wing surface well past the normal stall point at which the airflow would otherwise break up, thus sustaining lift at very high angles (says wiki, it is common knowledge, just borrowed a well constructed sentence).
- Will it would provide symmetric vortex generation? Yes.
- Is that its main job? No.

However the requirement for the nose strakes on the HJT36 do not seem to be for generating the vortices to be deposited over the wing. If it was it would have been shorter, sharper and closer to the wing. Having said that a strake is a strake and the HJT's strakes will generate vortices which would enhance controlability at high AoA.
- Will it would provide symmetric vortex generation? Yes.
- Is that its main job? Yes.
- Will it generate vortices over delaying boundary layer seperation? Most probably? Yes.
- It that its main purpose? No.

To make what I am saying more clear, I will give you the following examples.

Here are nose strakes added to the Kfir and the Cheetah for enhanced controlability at high AoA. Mark the shape.

And here is a nose strake which was attached specifically for spin recovery on the Cessna T-37 Tweet after the first prototype crashed in spin tests. MArk the similarity with the HJT nose strakes.

P.S. The nose strakes on the T-37 were called spin strakes.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 30 Dec 2010 20:36

To make my point even more clear.

Here's what NASA was doing in the third phase of the HARV tests.

These strakes were actuated. There idea was to provide another control surface at high AoA for yaw control. You can see that these were in addition to the LERXs.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 31 Dec 2010 14:04

Cost To Develop Tejas Mk-2: $542-million

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the development of India's Light Combat Aircraft Tejas programme will be sanctioned $542.44-million (Rs 2431.55-crore) to develop the Tejas Mk-2, making up Phase-III of the programme's full scale engineering development (FSED). Also, the deadline for final operational clearance for the Tejas Mk-1 is December 2012.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 31 Dec 2010 14:23

Low-intensity explosion at CABS’ Lightning Test Facility (LTF) in Bangalore; incident ahead of tests on Tejas' fuel tank(s)

An explosion of low-intensity occurred at DRDO's Bangalore-based Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS) on December 30, Thursday exactly at 5.15 pm. Though, the incident happened yesterday, the details are slowly trickling in now. Ten people were injured, including 4 IAF officials, in the incident. Shankar Bhat, Scientist-G with Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), has been operated upon his left eye at a Bangalore-based hospital today, following splinters hitting his eyes. Two IAF officials are still admitted at Command Hospital and the rest have been discharged from hospital(s).
The incident happened at the Lightning Test Facility (LTF) of CABS -- specifically set-up for the LCA program, 10 years back. According to military sources, around 20 people had gathered at LTF to conduct a routine test. There were to do some confirmatory tests on the Tejas’ fuel tank(s), as part of the certification process. In addition to IAF officials, there were scientists and engineers from ADA, CEMILAC, HAL, CABS and IISc present at LTF. A Board of Inquiry has been set up to ascertain the cause of the incident and it is likely to be headed by an IISc expert.
Military sources confirm that the window panes of the viewing area came down, when a small ignition (controlled) was done ahead of the test. This has resulted in injuries (due to splinters) to those around.
( Please note that the incident occurred AHEAD of the test and NOT during the test. Request, all those who copy this post, NOT to blow this out of proportion.)

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 Dec 2010 14:49

^^^

I hope that all those who were injured in the accident are able to make a completely recovery

vic · Post by **vic** » 31 Dec 2010 19:38

putnanja wrote:From LiveFist ...

LCA-Navy Not What We Want, But It's Ours": FONA

"It may not be what we want, but it is our own aircraft," says the Indian Navy's Flag Officer Naval Aviation (FONA) Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai on the LCA Navy in an interview to FORCE magazine. He was asked how effective the LCA Navy would be for a carrier-based role given that it "only an eight ton platform". The officer's response: "I wish wish we could straightaway develop a Rafale. But seriously, we have to look at the Indian Navy and it commitment towards indigenisation. I agree that we have made a modest start, but it has been a huge learning experience. LCA Navy will remain a modest platform with an uprated engine which will give us adequate capability at sea. While it is easy to buy from abroad, sometimes it is extremely difficult to support those platforms. Our past experiences tell us that it is worth committing resources to develop our own assets."
...
...

IIRC there was an interview by a Naval Officer (involved with N-LCA - forgot the name) that NLCA will have half the weapon load at half the range compared to Mig-29K but we need to take baby steps for indigenisation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 20:01

The Week magazine this week has its cover story on Tejas "the making of our own fighter".

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/ ... o?tabId=13

On our own wings

Tejas, India’s first fighter aircraft, is combat ready. Here is the story of how it beat sceptics and sanctions

By Ramu Patil

Please do not allow the first flight of the Light Combat Aircraft to take place. The aircraft has not been developed with adequate rigour, and safety aspects have not been fully looked into. It would be a catastrophe if you allow it to fly.

This was the gist of a cable which landed on then defence minister George Fernandes’s table in 2001. It came from a major US military aircraft manufacturer on January 3, a day before the maiden flight of the indigenously designed and developed Tejas.
Even in India, many people were sceptical about the success of the fighter project, which started way back in 1983. In the subsequent 27 years, countless work-hours and ?14,000 crore were spent on developing it. Justifiably, people wondered why India should invest so much on developing it when fighter aircraft were available off the shelf in the international market.

Fernandes, with supreme confidence in Team LCA, ignored the cable. The following morning the homegrown fighter, flown by Wing Commander Rajiv Kothiyal, soared into the clear Bangalore sky. “He [Fernandes] told us about the letter from the US only after the first flight was over,” recalls Air Marshal (retired) Philip Rajkumar, head of the LCA flight test operations at that time and author of The Tejas Story: The Light Combat Aircraft Project.

But doubting Thomases sniggered. They said Tejas “flew somehow” and the real test for it would be to fly frequently and be part of the Indian Air Force. And exactly a decade after that historic first flight, the aircraft is now combat ready. The scientists at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the nodal agency for developing the fighter, and the test crew at the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) are confident. “Missiles, practice bombs and drop tanks have all been integrated and tested successfully. It is a very potent weapon now,’’ says P.S. Subramanyam, project director (combat aircraft) and director, ADA.

According to K. Tamilmani, chief executive, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), the LCA is ready for Initial Operational Clearance (IOC).
CEMILAC, which is part of the Defence Research Development Organisation, is the certifying agency for all military aircraft and airborne systems in India. It goes only by the demonstrated performance of the aircraft and systems to certify it. All major envelope requirements for the IOC have been completed and safety aspects proved, says Tamilmani. “Some small things that still need to be completed would be done soon,” he says.

A few parameters like firing missiles through radar targeting will be done before getting the IOC and handing over the aircraft to the IAF, which has ordered 40 LCAs. Bangalore-based state-owned aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will start rolling out Tejas in the next few months.
Flying with the IAF would be a major milestone for this multi-mission tactical fighter capable of air combat, offensive air support and other combat missions. At the flight test stage, on an average, each aircraft does eight sorties per month, but in the operational squadrons, they will be flown almost every day. “It is a fully combat-ready aircraft that encompasses all features that the IAF wants,’’ says Group Captain Suneet Krishna of the NFTC, who has been test flying the LCA and has been associated with the project for 10 years (see box). The NFTC pilots, from the IAF and the Navy, have so far completed 1,500 sorties, testing a number of parameters or test points.

“Tejas is so agile and so good that it sometimes surprises you,” says NFTC Project Director Air Commodore Rohit Verma. The veteran pilot, who has flown the Russian MiGs and French Mirages, is in love with Tejas.
Like pilots, flight test engineers, too, played an important role. Sitting at the hi-tech Telemetry Centre at the end of the HAL airport’s runway, they monitor the test flights. In fact, the test director always has a better situational awareness of the aircraft than its pilot. All through the flight, the director is in touch with the pilot, while a specialist monitors the crucial parameters in the aircraft.

Says retired wing commander P.K. Raveendran, group director (flight testing), NFTC: “Each test flight requires a lot of preparation and analysis. Soon after the flight there will be a ‘hot debrief’, the first impression of the flight by the pilot and test engineers. That will be followed by ‘data debrief’, where each aspect is discussed in detail so that corrective action can be taken in time.” He has been associated with the project from 1995 and is heading the team of “back room boys and girls” assisting the project.

“Young boys and girls worked late in the night and would report to work again by 7 a.m. That also included a woman, who had a kid to take care of at home,” says former ADA director Dr Kota Harinarayana. “When I asked her, she said: ‘Sir, my mother-in-law has told me she will take care of the baby so that I can focus on the national project.’”
“Like any true patriot, I feel happy to be part of this project,” says Devadatta Maharana, who integrated the complex Airborne Separation Video System that captures the trajectory of bombs and drop tanks dropped from the aircraft. The special cameras mounted on Tejas capture 1,000 frames per second. Though it sounds simple, analysing separation of missiles, bombs or drop tank is crucial as any slight deviation in separation, at a very high speed, can prove disastrous for the aircraft.

State-of-the-art technologies like fly-by-wire, digital flight control and all composite structures have made Tejas technologically superior to many IAF fighters. “The LCA is far superior to the upgraded MiG 21s. It will be as good as any fourth generation fighter,’’ says Rajkumar, who has 5,200 flying hours on 75 different aircraft. It was Rajkumar who set up the NFTC in 1994.
Says Verma, “The LCA is a good bedrock for any future projects. The platform-neutral technology can be used for other platforms. After IOC, final operations clearance (FOC) would be a bit of challenge for us as we would be going in for a high angle of attack, more sensors, more weapons and big envelope. We will do FOC by the end of 2012.”

Experts say Tejas is best suited for short duration missions, while heavier aircraft like the Sukhois can fly longer missions. But Sukhoi costs around ?240 crore, and an upgraded Jaguar around ?300 crore. Su-30MKI is one of the most capable flying machines in the IAF. However, the IAF cannot afford to have only those as they are very expensive and the operational costs are too heavy. The LCA, which is relatively less expensive—it costs around ?150 crore and, with the upgrades, can go up to ?200 crore—will fit into the light class of fighters. The IAF is acquiring 126 medium multi-role aircraft for $11 billion to strengthen its medium class fleet.

So far, a total of ?25,000 crore has been invested on the LCA project. “Of that, around ?14,000 was for development and rest of the money for making 40 aircraft,” says Subramanyam. “If we look at 200 aircraft [for the IAF and the Navy], we will be getting business worth ?50,000 crore.’’

Though the project is now on the right flight path, the going was tough a few years ago. “When we started, 999 out of 1,000 people did not believe us,” says Kota, known as the Father of the LCA. Long before the LCA project was even born, he had done his Ph.D thesis on the 'Design of an air superior fighter for India', at IIT Bombay. It was to honour Kota's contribution to the project that his initials 'KH' were inscribed on the aircraft that made the maiden flight.

Kota and his team were very cautious in their approach. “We were willing to accept criticism on account of delays rather than putting the project in danger,” says Kota. “We conducted many tests, more than what are normally done. The aircraft was ready to fly in 1999, but we took one full year to test and re-test before deciding to fly it in 2001.” An unassuming person, Kota is now working on the Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) project.

Bridging the technology gap, too, was a huge challenge. HAL, the only aircraft-maker in the country, had not done much after its Marut programme in the early 60s, and India was two decades behind developments in aviation. In aviation, they say, one needs to keep running to stay where you are. And India was not even walking!
Next was the difference of opinion between the IAF and DRDO. “The IAF was looking for an aircraft which would be on the frontline in 15 years or so,” says Rajkumar, “while the aeronautical community felt that the technological gap had to be bridged by developing technologies like fly-by-wire, composite structures, and digital avionics. The IAF knew that it would take a long time to do this.’’

After sitting on the fence all through the 80s, the IAF started supporting the project in the 90s. The project got a meaningful funding of ?2,188 crore in 1993. Then came the US sanctions after Pokhran nuclear tests in 1998. Many thought it to be the end of the fighter project as the US firms GE and Lockheed Martin, which were helping with engines and avionics, respectively, pulled out overnight. Says Shyam Chetty, head of flight mechanics and control division: “When sanctions were imposed, we were in the US working with Lockheed Martin. They immediately asked us to leave the country and did not even allow us to enter their campus to collect our equipment and papers. It took many years to get them back. Meanwhile, we had to start from scratch to develop flight control law (FCL), which was a very important part of the project. That was a big challenge.''

To tackle the crisis, then DRDO head A.P.J. Abdul Kalam formed national teams to develop the crucial technologies within India. “We took it as a challenge and worked day and night,” says Kota. “We developed all the required systems before the sanctions were lifted.”

The teams conquered complex technologies like composite materials, digital fly-by-wire system and glass cockpit and established various testing facilities. Says National Aerospace Laboratory Director A.R. Upadhyay: “In my 18 years of association with the LCA project, I have become a better aerospace professional. Technologies like FCL and carbon fibre composites developed at NAL are helping many programmes including our Saras, a 14-seater aircraft, and also the RTA project.”

A.K. Sood, RTA project adviser and former chief designer at HAL, has the same opinion. “The technology and expertise we developed for the LCA were used for conducting full aircraft vibration tests on Sukhoi and for vibration tests on external stores on Mirage 2000. That reduced our dependency on the foreign aircraft makers,” he says.
But the ambition to develop a complex jet engine and equally difficult Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) led to delays. Even now, Tejas flies with a US-made engine and an Israeli radar.
Says Rajkumar: “It was an absurd managerial decision to give the task of developing a jet engine to GTRE [Gas Turbine Research Establishment] and radar development to HAL Hyderabad. They never had any experience of doing such complex work. The only organisation that could have developed the radar was LRDE [Electronics and Radar Development Establishment] and the HAL Engine Division in Bangalore, which had the experience of developing engines. Today, with the benefit of hindsight, we can say the decisions were wrong, though we cannot blame anyone.”

The LCA Mark I that is now ready for IOC will fly with GE 404 IN20 engines while Mark II, the first flight of which is likely to be in December 2014, will fly with the more powerful GE 414 engines. Mark II will have a retractable fuel system and will improve on all deficiencies noticed in the former.

Lack of adequately trained workforce was also a problem. Says Rajkumar: “When the IJT [Intermediate Jet Trainer] project was taken up by HAL, the manpower got split. That had an adverse effect on the progress of the LCA project.’’
But a transparent working system helped the project. Everyone in the ADA, IAF and airworthiness teams knew what the challenges were. “The system was so transparent that I used to joke that the LCA project was like a cabaret artiste without a G-string. It was totally transparent. There was nothing hidden,’’ says Kota, with a hearty laugh.

Looking back at the long development period, Wing Comander Ajey Lele of Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA), New Delhi, says: “It was possible to complete the project a little earlier, but one must understand that developing aircraft is not a simple job. The criticism was very harsh, as if we were manufacturing something like a mobile phone.’’

Fighter development projects take a lot of time. The development of European fighters took 25 years and the F22 Raptor of the US was a Cold War era project. “If it took over two decades for the US to develop the F22, India, too, will take time,’’ Lele says.
The process of developing a fighter helped private industry as well. Says Ashok Saxena, MD, Navvavia Technologies Private Limited: “Small and medium enterprises played a major role in the production of test equipment and components. Those companies are now getting business from many foreign firms looking for good quality, low-cost outsourcing for their own programmes.” Saxena was managing director of HAL Bangalore Complex and was closely associated with the LCA project.

HAL will find it a challenge to meet production requirements. It will have to produce around 200 LCAs for the IAF and the Navy in the coming years. As of now, it is capable of making only eight aircraft a year and is planning to increase the capacity to 12. Which means, it requires nearly 18 years to make 200 fighters. Neither the IAF nor the Navy can wait that long.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 20:15

there are good nuggets in the above article esp the US cable (presumably from lockheed) and AM P Rajkumar speaking on the engine and radar.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 20:16

more from the Week:

Antony tilted the balance in favour of the LCA

Ready for more challenges: Subramanyam
INTERVIEW/P.S. SUBRAMANYAM, PROJECT DIRECTOR (COMBAT AIRCRAFT) AND DIRECTOR, ADA

He wears a Henry Sandoz, a self-winding wrist-watch purchased when he got a Rs:750 scholarship in school in the early 60s, and he loves to drive his 25-year-old Fiat. P.S. Subramanyam, project director (combat aircraft) and director of Aeronautical Development Agency, has never felt the need to change the watch and the car that are close to his heart. But on the work front, he is heading projects that are evolving to keep pace with the global technological advancements. He spoke to THE WEEK about the LCA project. Excerpts:

After a long delay, the LCA is ready. How does it feel?
Everyone talks about the delays. It is not correct to say that the programme started in 1983, when the government first thought of working on a combat aircraft. They decided to put Rs:560 crore seed money for preparing the project definition, but there was no clarity. Even the air staff requirement (ASR) [standards for the engine] came only in 1985. In 1987-88, the project definition was prepared and the proposal to make prototypes was submitted. The government said they cannot take a risk with that kind of money and they split the programme into two parts; technology demonstration (TD) programme and proto-vehicle development project. In 1993, they gave Rs:2,199 crore for the TD. So, the actual programme started only in 1993.
In fact, clarity came only in 2004-05. In 2001, we flew the first aircraft and in 2004, we did the TD for the government, after which they released ?3,320 crore. The first proto vehicle (PV1) came out in December 2005. The IAF got confidence in the programme and gave the standard of preparation of fighter aircraft. So, the fillip came in 2005. From then on, the programme has been progressing rapidly, especially after Defence Minister A.K. Antony tilted the balance in favour of the LCA by publicly stating that the government would support the project, irrespective of any developments.

Is it ready for Initial Operational Clearance?
As of now, we have all equipment onboard, all sensors are functioning, all weapons integrated, carried and released. We have come to the IOC level. We are awaiting an endorsement from the defence minister.

Does the aircraft meet all the ASRs?
I will not say it will meet all the ASRs in which case we would not have brought in the alternative engine. There will be some deficiencies related to engine performance. The IAF is aware of all these aspects.

After the IOC, the next challenge would be the Final Operations Clearance?
Yes, FOC is the next major thing. But we do not see any problem in that. Beyond Visual Range missiles, some other weapons have to be integrated. That will be done by 2012.

What about the LCA Navy project?
The aircraft carrier that the Navy is building in Kochi and the other carrier, Vikramaditya, are looking for a light combat aircraft. No one else in the world is making this class of 10-tonne aircraft for a carrier with ramp take-off. We have taken the commitment very seriously and are putting all our best efforts to ensure its first flight in first quarter of 2011.
For conducting the carrier compatibility trials, we are building a mock-up of the aircraft carrier at a shore-based test facility in Goa. By the next quarter or so the take-off region will be ready.

How did the project help the industry?
When we started the programme, our technologies were second generation, which were almost three decades old. Today, the world says we are four-plus generation. It is not only the aircraft, but all technologies, design, analysis, simulation, ground testing, flight testing and assembling have been upgraded. The money has gone into developing an eco-system that helps private industries.

How did you handle the criticism about the programme?
Our leaders totally insured us from all criticism. While they took care of all those aspects, they gave us day-to-day challenges. We never got exposed to the media and never took it seriously.

What after the LCA project?
The IAF is saying ‘Let us make a fifth generation aircraft, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft’. The seed money has been given, and the IAF is working very closely with us to evolve the specifications so that the programme can start. Also, the Unmanned Aerial Combat Aircraft programme is coming up and money has already been given. That is a little more advanced than the AMCA because of its stealth characteristics.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 20:18

and this is one of the test pilots speaking - also from The Week

Tejas is a pilot's aircraft

Here to stay: Group Captain Suneet Krishna says Tejas can be improved over the years / Photo: Bhanu Prakash Chandra
COCKPIT VIEW

Group Captain Suneet Krishna, a veteran who has flown MiG 27s and Mirages, has been associated with the LCA project since 2000, a year before the first aircraft took to skies. He has seen Tejas taking shape, growing from a mere flying machine to combat-ready fighter. He has flown Tejas extensively and loves it. “The good thing about Tejas is that it’s a pilots’ aircraft. It has been designed by the pilots and for the pilots,” he says.

According to Krishna, Tejas has improved a lot over the years. “In 2001, when we made the first flight, there were a lot of doubts among people and the scientific community. Even the IAF was a little sceptical. But over the years, we have flown 1,500 sorties. The aircraft has been doing well and we have achieved most of the targets we had set for ourselves. It has improved a lot,” he says.

On how it compares with the MiGs, Krishna says Tejas is a well balanced aircraft, capable of fulfilling the roles for which it has been designed and developed. “It has state-of-the-art technology and we can keep improving on it as Tejas is going to be there for many years,” says Krishna. “We can keep adding or modifying it as per our requirements. The good thing is that the technology is in our hands and we do not have to depend on anyone else.”

Does anything need to be improved? “Whatever was needed has been improved as of now,” says Krishna. “First, we demonstrated and proved the technology and then, the first 200 flights proved our capability to develop advanced flight control systems and integrate modern avionics and other technologies. We have now developed an aircraft as per the IAF requirement, and it is almost ready for induction. It is a complete combat-ready aircraft. It can go into a combat and demonstrate its capabilities.”

vic · Post by **vic** » 31 Dec 2010 20:36

What after the LCA project?
The IAF is saying ‘Let us make a fifth generation aircraft, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft’. The seed money has been given, and the IAF is working very closely with us to evolve the specifications so that the programme can start. Also, the Unmanned Aerial Combat Aircraft programme is coming up and money has already been given. That is a little more advanced than the AMCA because of its stealth characteristics.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 20:44

I guess the AMCA will try for a "JSF/pakfa" level of moderate stealth while the UCAV (likely for deep strike) would be a X-plane type totally VLO thing in IR and radar. if shapes be needed there are plenty of american x-ucav and bae taranis to copy now.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2010 20:48

Good reads.. imho, it is still not late to put in more expertise or reorganize setup for Kaveri delivery and MMR. There is always this consulting between institutions, where we could input and would have delivered the needed component or LRU in time.

It may be stupid decision, but there is nothing wrong in correcting that now.. if we still think it is worth it.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Dec 2010 21:11

a big thanks to PSS for stating clearly what jingos like me have been trying to impress on people for years now.

After a long delay, the LCA is ready. How does it feel?
Everyone talks about the delays. It is not correct to say that the programme started in 1983, when the government first thought of working on a combat aircraft. They decided to put Rs:560 crore seed money for preparing the project definition, but there was no clarity. Even the air staff requirement (ASR) [standards for the engine] came only in 1985. In 1987-88, the project definition was prepared and the proposal to make prototypes was submitted. The government said they cannot take a risk with that kind of money and they split the programme into two parts; technology demonstration (TD) programme and proto-vehicle development project. In 1993, they gave Rs:2,199 crore for the TD. So, the actual programme started only in 1993.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 21:24

17 yrs from ground zero to IOC, with no preceding pgm and only the distant memories of Marut to think about (2 gens older) is a superb achievement for a technology starved and tech sanctioned country like India.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2010 21:25

For VLO, advanced versions of LCA need not be shape driven rather use inner or under the skin layer of activated carbon fiber felt screen/similar composites to absorb radiations except perhaps the kevlar regions of the nose. Certain arrangement could also be made within the skin to deflect the radiations and remain very very stealthy. Hence, it is ideal approach since external shape can totally concentrate on 100% aerodynamics.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 31 Dec 2010 21:36

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 31 Dec 2010 21:40

This was the gist of a cable which landed on then defence minister George Fernandes’s table in 2001. It came from a major US military aircraft manufacturer on January 3, a day before the maiden flight of the indigenously designed and developed Tejas.

It would be good public service if that manufacturer is disclosed
If they are involved in the MRCA they should be kicked out

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2010 22:10

LM, Moog and GE are the major suspects. I suspect its LM who was working with us for the first cut of the FCS.

the F-16 was never going to make it as MRCA. the F-18 has only the availability of aesa today as a selling point vs the rest. but I guess the set supplied to us will be degraded version of that used by USN with some features deleted and some degraded in SW. so it may not be all thats its cracked to be.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2010 22:40

It would be definitely LM, and GoI is all deja vu contracting them for NLCA consultancy. In 1993 they were the LCA partner for tejas FCS. Subsequent Indian nuke tests, then SD sanctions removed it from even thinking about it.

Again MRCA, they are invited. It is crazy. why did GoI even contact them for NLCA when LM was never a contractor for any naval versions of earlier gen khan fighters (pre JSF)?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 31 Dec 2010 23:03

and dont forget, no US tech company can move a muscle without State Dept. approval...

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 31 Dec 2010 23:20

The Week, "Antony tilted the balance in favour of the LCA"
http://tinyurl.com/355nc8n

"In fact, clarity came only in 2004-05. In 2001, we flew the first aircraft and in 2004, we did the TD for the government, after which they released ?3,320 crore. The first proto vehicle (PV1) came out in December 2005. The IAF got confidence in the programme and gave the standard of preparation of fighter aircraft. So, the fillip came in 2005. From then on, the programme has been progressing rapidly, especially after Defence Minister A.K. Antony tilted the balance in favour of the LCA by publicly stating that the government would support the project, irrespective of any developments."

I hope that all the people who bash A.K. Antony would finally give the man the credit he deserves. He's not perfect, but his commitment to indigenous development is real, and significant.

BTW, I wish more people noticed the order of another 6 squadrons of the Akash for the IAF. (The confirmation was in an Aviation Week article, I think.) Indian orders for the Akash now total 2,750 missiles. I think the Akash will be remembered as the DRDO's breakthrough product. And it's being produced just in the nick of time. OT, but I couldn't help myself.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2010 23:48

I don't think I have seen bashing like you say on Anthony achan as against one could think off on George kaka. He was always in favor of indigenous products. Besides, he had the best tenure at the best time though. So it all peachy there. Again, don't forget the real RDO performers while talking about politics, which is important, but have normally sidelined made in India tag, when it comes to defence purchases.

The drdo labs have done a commendable job and extremely well at that to not just impress our babus, but in addition to overcome vested firang interests to spoil made in India tag.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 01 Jan 2011 01:42

From the above link that singhaji put in

A few parameters like firing missiles through radar targeting will be done before getting the IOC and handing over the aircraft to the IAF, which has ordered 40 LCAs. Bangalore-based state-owned aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will start rolling out Tejas in the next few months.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 01 Jan 2011 02:18

I hope that all the people who bash A.K. Antony would finally give the man the credit he deserves. He's not perfect, but his commitment to indigenous development is real, and significant.

Oh sure - one journalist for a mag from his home state writes this and I am going to forgive mr clean and raise him on a pedestal

Get 500 pieces of 155 mm arty in the next 2 yrs then we shall think of a pedestal

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 01 Jan 2011 03:44

^^^ Very true....

Backing indigenous products is his duty but so is to ensure that the forces remain adequately supplied with up to date equipment. And right now we have our entire arty core relying on outdated products (and that too in insufficient numbers) and not to mention the night blind armored guys.

IMHO defense ministry seems to be very slow in decision making.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Jan 2011 06:04

After a long delay, the LCA is ready. How does it feel?
Everyone talks about the delays. It is not correct to say that the programme started in 1983, when the government first thought of working on a combat aircraft.
<snip>
So, the actual programme started only in 1993[/b].

It all depends on your philosophy in life. I am actually 111 years old this year because it was 111 years ago that my grandfather started getting interested in girls and thinking about creating future generations.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 01 Jan 2011 07:08

Video of Tejas firing an R-73 missile during the recent weapon trials in Goa.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 01 Jan 2011 07:16

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2010/12/t ... great.html

Nice photos for wallpapers

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 01 Jan 2011 10:50

IOC update on Tarmak

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 01 Jan 2011 21:50

Surya wrote:
I hope that all the people who bash A.K. Antony would finally give the man the credit he deserves. He's not perfect, but his commitment to indigenous development is real, and significant.

Oh sure - one journalist for a mag from his home state writes this and I am going to forgive mr clean and raise him on a pedestal

Get 500 pieces of 155 mm arty in the next 2 yrs then we shall think of a pedestal

Surya, who said anything about putting A.K. Antony on a pedestal? I explicitly stated in my post that the man is not perfect, but that he should receive credit for his commitment to indigenous development. Do you disagree with that?

For the record, the praise of A.K. Antony came from Dr. Subramanyam, not the journalist conducting the interview.

Also, watch your tone. I don't appreciate the sarcasm. If you have a point to make, please do so in a civil manner. Cheers.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 04 Jan 2011 00:59

Test pilot recalls Tejas maiden flight

On a Thursday morning on January 4, 2001, a 42-year-old senior Indian Air Force (IAF) test pilot walked on to Runway 09 at the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) in HAL airport gripped by a strange mix of confidence, anticipation and a vague fear.

Retired Wg Com Rajiv Kothiyal with LCA Tejas in the background.Wg Com Rajiv Kothiyal, now retired, was to fly a technology demonstrator aircraft of Tejas, India’s light combat aircraft (LCA). It was the first flight of the all-Indian fighter.

The Wing Command flew the technology demonstrator well, although the telemetry auto tracking system failed a few minutes after take-off and all 16 screens in the monitoring control room started showing erroneous readings.

“I knew she (Tejas) was doing good and we continued...” Kothiyal recalls.

Ten years later, Kothiyal is a pilot with Kingfisher Airlines. He is still a flyer, although he won’t be part of the celebrations when Tejas is inducted into IAF next week.

As everybody involved with project Tejas gears up for the initial operation clearance (IOC) scheduled on January 10, the former test pilot is going through newspapers diligently, learning of all developments on the project that had “taken off” with significant help from him.

Cut to 2001: Kothiyal had completed the flight briefing, which had begun at 8 am, where he had described the flight profile and put it bluntly to the crew of the two chase aircraft what was expected of them in case of an emergency. He then walked to the runway.

With the take-off scheduled at 10 am, Rajiv was in the aircraft by 9.15 am, mentally going over the flight manoeuvre he had to carry out which he had learnt during the hundreds of hours spent in the Mirage simulator.

The GE F 404 engine powering the little aircraft was started shortly and so were the two Mirage 2000 chase aircraft, but the after-start checks, radio checks with the chase aircraft and the Air Traffic Control (ATC) tower took another 30 minutes.

It was past 9.40 am by then and it was time for a 12-minute automatic built-in test where the flight control computer would run through a pre-programmed sequence of tests. In case of a service aircraft, it would take about a minute.

Finally, the ‘GO’ signal appeared and India’s dream, at the able hands of ‘Kothi’ as he was known to his friends, took off exactly at 10.18 am for the 18-minute flight.

Recalling the day, Kothiyal said: “Today the LCA already has a time-tested technology.

The day I flew it, it was a tough choice especially because it was the first time India was using fly by wire control systems, the first time we used indigenous composites, the first time we flew such a high software-intense aircraft and the first time in a long time we tried making anything like this by ourselves.”

The last indigenous fighter craft India had made was HAL’s Marut in the ’60s.

Having put in 23 years of service and 10 years in test flying, he terms that day nine years ago as the most memorable part of his career. And why not? Besides making him the proud pilot who took Tejas off the runway, it also fetched him the prestigious Iven
Kincheloe Award by the Society of Experimental Pilots (SETP) in the US.

A quiet celebration for them

As the nation inches closer to the formal induction of Tejas into the Indian Air Force, two men, H R Sudarshan Prasad and A Mohan, who worked closely with the project since the ’80s and are now retired, rejoice quietly.

Prasad recalled the first flight: “The take-off and landing confirmed that all the work my team and I had put into the project was foolproof.”

Prasad led a 60-member strong team in the avionics and electronics section that played a vital role in the systems integration of Tejas.

For Mohan, his most memorable moment was “when we tested the wing design, created indigenously and it stood the test”.