The Cricket World Cup Thread

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 18:20

CRICINFO at Tea break
Only one wicket in each session for South Africa, which means they need something special in the final session if they are to win this. India needed something special at the start of play to win this, and they haven't produced that. A draw is looking very likely with one session to go.

CRICBUZZ at Tea break
Just the one wicket to speak for the efforts put in by the South African bowlers, they were made to work hard by the Indian batsmen who showed a lot of character. Gambhir was spectacular, didn't look like the injury has had any effect on him, he was content in leaving the deliveries outside the off stump, he took a couple of blows and did stroke a few glorious boundaries. Rahul Dravid was as solid as ever when he was out there in the middle, but was done in by a superb delivery that hit the cracks and took off. Soon after that, two catches were dropped, one of Gambhir and the other of Tendulkar. The game is heading towards a tame draw, but the contest between the bat and the ball is something that has to be admired.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2011 18:21

oh please give us a break - its the some old killer instinct, no beef in diet, "attitude" (whatever that means)....atleast one BR we hope to be spared such cliches.

nobody in their right mind would be stupid to lose a test by chasing 370 taking extraordinary risks...they are doing the sensible thing thats all.

dont we have enough examples of indian defeats in the past due to a false sense of chivalry, of playing war like one plays ritualized duels, expecting the enemy to play by the rules , lack of strategic planning etc. enough ! I would rather we draw the series even , than die in a fruitless bayonet charge.

> SA is more aggressive than India.

even if this be true which it isnt, fat lot of good it has done them. they spent most of the last decade getting kicked around like football by the australians even with a 11 full of musclebound 'aggressive' hardcases....do you remember how australia pounded the living crap out of them in the last WC ODI semifinal ?

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 18:24

niran wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
to me it looks like they were terrified of the Indian batting line-up.
oh and please find me an example of a team that had the 'cojones' to attempt a similar chase.
+100 to the bold sentence.

remember the Tied Madras Test in an era gone by, TI was set a target of ~350 and TI chased it with quite a vigor
scaring the bejesus outta Assies.

+200 to this
Smith not declaring yesterday and continuous legside bowling to Gambhir and Tendulkar is proof of this. With almost a 300 run lead 1hr before stumps yesterday if anyone could win it then it was SA and yet this is all they could do.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2011 18:26

they have the muscle but seldom use their heads, hence the big disparity between their paper T:W and real T:W

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 18:32

Here it is, SA wins against Australia in a 4th inning chase of 400 plus runs involving fifth day....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/351681.html

Manish Jain · Post by **Manish Jain** » 06 Jan 2011 18:35

Like I read yesterday, Sehwag saves matches for India even before he goes out to bat. Opposition captains are terrified of declaring unless the asking rate is over 4 per over. Smith didn't declare and India never had the chance to make 340 on a fifth day pitch against Steyn-Morkel.

Our best chance was yesterday but we lost it by some mindless defensive tactics and new ball wastage by our seamers.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 18:41

Just more proof that SA doesnt even deserve to be ranked 2nd. They have not shown any gumption to win on their favorite home pitch after having India on the mat by tea on day 4.

As for SA's win over Aus in the 'match of the century', we all know its more of an aberration than any proof of SA's performance over the last decade. With the kind of talent they had they should have won the World Cup atleast once...but they still have an empty cupboard without even a T20 World Cup win.

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 18:43

Our best chance was yesterday but we lost it by some mindless defensive tactics

You said it all, India is not known to be an aggressive side, and this is the crux of the matter.

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 18:51

Just more proof that SA doesnt even deserve to be ranked 2nd

They beat India hands down, with Inning defeat, while we won the next test with paltry runs against SA´s massive defeat in the first test.

The bottom of the barrel is Indian meek attitude to look for middle ground eagerly without a hostile fight.

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 19:03

even if this be true which it isnt, fat lot of good it has done them. they spent most of the last decade getting kicked around like football by the australians even with a 11 full of musclebound 'aggressive' hardcases....do you remember how australia pounded the living crap out of them in the last WC ODI semifinal ?

You are pitting Australia-SA...

While the spot light is on Indian meekness, and thereby I said, pound for pound, SA is more stronger.

So bring on the stats between the two (SA-IN) to determine the aggressiveness.

Even otherwise in test series where there is a posiblity of a middle ground-draw - SA works faster to acheive the results in its favour.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Jan 2011 19:05

Talking about turn of mind "mentality" SA overhauled the massive 418 runs (Aussie) did not they?

when was this my dear well-informed friend ? in a single day on a 5th day track ?

if you mean the ODI, well first of all it was an ODI, not a test match. and secondly the target was 434 not 418. and yes India has successfully chased down >300 scores a number of times when people didn't even thought such possible.

As for the test records, I am sure, Australia or SA would have chased such a situation, I dont have such statictics, but many people will give you example and prove you otherwise right here on this thread.

thank you for letting me know that you are just another of those Indians who look down upon other Indians to hide their own inadequacy. and no, no one let alone 'many people' is going to provide stats in support of your comments, because there isn't any.
just the fact that you had to bring an ODI example into this shows your level of understanding of cricket.

Here it is, SA wins against Australia in a 4th inning chase of 400 plus runs involving fifth day....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/351681.html

oh dear !

south africa had near to TWO FULL DAYS to get those runs. do you understand the difference ?

FYI here is the list of succesful 4th innings chases.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

India appears quite a few times.

I ask again, please show me an example where a team chased 300+ runs on 5th day.
that should be easy no, since there are 'many examples' ? I even knocked off 40 runs from that standard.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 06 Jan 2011 19:07

^^^^
one can argue all long till one dies.
bottomline is
India is No 1
and SA is No 2 for all their aggressiveness.

India has beaten SA is the last test by 87 runs. India won.
does not matter whether it is 1 run win or innings defeat. Win is a win.
Foolishness is not bravado.

Ps: thanks Rahul

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Jan 2011 19:12

well yeah, if being meek (SDRE and shivering as well ?

) and looking for middle ground eagerly rakes a team to no1 with a HUGE margin in rating points with the supposed next best (all adrenalin and steroid pumped aggressive one as well) I'll take the supposed meek team any darn day of the week.

the 'strong' team can have the seat under the no1's chair.

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 19:18

India appears quite a few times.

And how many times India did win chasing the fourth Inning against worthy opponent (unlike Bangladesh)???

It is well known that they did opt for draw MANY TIMES......

So there you go.

BTW I am pro India, but would like to show our team the mirror when the need be. And I am as happy as you are for India´s top ranking which must be maintained, but its a matter of strong character to go for the win is where we lack.

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” - Winston Churchil.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jan 2011 19:20

you work for cricinfo?

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 19:21

ashokpachori wrote: but its a matter of strong character to go for the win is where we lack.

..so you mean to say SA showed this character in this match?
If anything one got a feeling SA was looking for the draw today with all the negative bowling tactics.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 06 Jan 2011 19:23

^^^^
why is India no 1.
it did not get by being meek.

It is a tough world out there. meek shall not inherit the title.
it is better to be a warrior out on the field than be a keyboard warrior.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 06 Jan 2011 19:26

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” - Winston Churchil.

I criticise SA for being meek and not having confidence. WTF with having the world's bestetst fastesteet bowler and super support in bowling and fileding( incomparable to the meek sdres).

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Jan 2011 19:30

ah so one needs to bring in the sayings of a crypto-fascist mass murderer when facts doesn't stack up in your favour.

the discussion was about this chase and this team. the doings of teams past doesn't come into the argument. what they did is history. you are yet to present even one valid argument to convince me that today's decision was negative and not, as I see, prudent.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 06 Jan 2011 19:31

BTW how many more overs for end of play

At the end of the days play irrespective of the results, India is NO 1.

Shame on the SA when they could have won all 3 tests being aggressive and blank India 3-0. they would have been no 1 if they had done. It shows they were afraid of India. they lack self confidence, very meek. As I said earlier meek shall not inherit the title.
INDIA is NUMBER 1 in the world.
LOUD and CLEAR

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 19:32

SA plays 3 tests at home with the world's best bowler against a supposedly 'weak' team and all they manage is one win! They lost one match and conceded a first innings lead in the drawn 3rd match!

This round was won wholesomely by TI. Bring on the other pretenders England now!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jan 2011 19:34

Someone said all he needed was 20 overs to bowl india out

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 19:35

SandeepA wrote:
ashokpachori wrote: but its a matter of strong character to go for the win is where we lack.

..so you mean to say SA showed this character in this match?
If anything one got a feeling SA was looking for the draw today with all the negative bowling tactics.

It is not just this or that test. Its overall scenario!

Starting from Mahtma Gandhi to Sonia Gandhi - it is same!

Indians are peaceful - they never fight - they truce (Draw)

I criticise SA for being meek and not having confidence. WTF with having the world's bestetst fastesteet bowler and super support in bowling and fileding( incomparable to the meek sdres).

Look at the broader angle, not just single test.

To say to cricket lovers (who know the stuff and are regular bettors) that SA is not a aggressive (more aggressive than India) team, is akin to saying Israel is a weak & meek nation (kind of wrong statement).

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jan 2011 19:39

So why didnt they declare when kallis got his 100 and have a go at india? Waited for some tailenders to get his 50?

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 19:40

ashokpachori wrote:
Look at the broader angle, not just single test.

Here is the broader angle for you in case it is still not clear....

ICC rankings for Tests and ODIs

ICC Test Championship 5 Dec 2010
Team Matches Points Rating
India 38 4893 129
South Africa 32 3712 116
England 39 4355 112
Australia 37 4061 110
Sri Lanka 27 2951 109
Pakistan 26 2275 88
West Indies 25 2128 85
New Zealand 29 2318 80
Bangladesh 19 131 7

ICC ODI Championship 12 Dec 2010
Team Matches Points Rating
Australia 36 4595 128
India 39 4713 121
Sri Lanka 33 3892 118
South Africa 25 2873 115
England 28 3147 112
Pakistan 27 2704 100
New Zealand 29 2651 91
West Indies 18 1207 67
Bangladesh 32 2121 66
Ireland 11 425 39
Zimbabwe 34 1272 37
Netherlands 6 103 17
Kenya 8 1 0

http://www.espncricinfo.com/rankings/co ... 11271.html

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Jan 2011 19:41

the word you are looking for is bad@ss and TFTA, not aggressive.

this Indian team and a couple of others before it have been very aggressive. aggression has little to do with muscles or bravado.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jan 2011 19:43

SA would have continued even today if the tailenders where there.

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 19:45

Rahul M wrote:ah so one needs to bring in the sayings of a crypto-fascist mass murderer when facts doesn't stack up in your favour.

the discussion was about this chase and this team. the doings of teams past doesn't come into the argument. what they did is history. you are yet to present even one valid argument to convince me that today's decision was negative and not, as I see, prudent.

We are talking about a nature/aggressiveness that encompasses the time frame of past and present.

You can not judge any person or team on single instance. Therefore ICC has come with minimum 20 tests for any record to be so attributed.

Your given link shows India went for the draw number of times, and asking me to give you the proof is so futile for any fruitful dialogue.

A proverb is a `proverb, why not look at the message? why messenger?

Okito, for the change sake, here cometh senior Aristotle:

“Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing”

And I am sure that the above adage suits your personality trait - because you fail to criticise your own

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 20:02

India fourth Inning:

Test #854 #863 #311 #1149 #308 #1127= draw

Now what?

I have not gone for a win or loss.

Check the total history of both the teams to be fair to everyone - you included.

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 20:25

Rahul M wrote:the word you are looking for is bad@ss and TFTA, not aggressive. this Indian team and a couple of others before it have been very aggressive. aggression has little to do with muscles or bravado.

One is unparliamentary language that I dont use, and the other abreviation is not known to me (my freinds and family included).

I have also said about killer instinct/mentality. But you are in a nitpick mood, hence you narrowed down your glanced to whatever suited you.

Aggressive: as an aggressive sales campaign. Aggressive batting etcetra....

Your ID says you are a moderator, by that definition, you are required to set example of yourself for others. And for that to happen, please show me who has killer instinct between the two (SA-IN) with credible OVERALL stats. This applies only if you disagree with me - that SA is (more) aggressive than IN.

Other than that its AMEN from Jhumritalaiya....

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 20:34

Match drawn! Series shared
India tames the 'aggressive' lions in their own den!

Ashok
Not sure why you think drawn matches are so bad. Great cricketing stories have been written over drawn encounters. Sometimes you can get into a situation when the most honorable thing to do is to play for a draw. We got into one yesterday with Kallis's century and its commendable we managed a draw despite a deteriorating pitch, injuries to Gambhir, Sehwag, the form Steyn is in etc. Truly worthy of a number one team. The question at the end of this match will be only why Smith shyed away from declaring. What was he afraid of? Me thinks its Sehwag and Laxman cutting loose...and this to me shows just why you are not #1 yet.

As for Aggression that you continue to harp about. Tell me why its so important and why you think we lack in this and why we are still #1 and why oh why South Aggresica was not able to win a series at home against us??

CRICBUZZ says...
Series summary: It has been one of the most keenly contested and widely watched series of all time and it has certainly lived up to its billing. India would have harboured hopes of winning their first ever series here, but after a thrashing in the opening test at Centurion, they have redeemed themselves by coming back to intially level the series at Durban and then gutsing it out today to stave off defeat.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jan 2011 20:39

krisna wrote:
SaiK wrote:gawd onlee knows who is gawd. if has set limits, then he has to is sub-gawd.
sky==infinity. has no boundaries.
(ducking for cover)

*Sachin Tendulkar (rhb) 14 91 0 0 15.38 2 (2b) 2 (22b) 177 14692 248* 56.94
VVS Laxman (rhb) 32 67 4 0 47.76 7 (22b) 21 (38b) 120 7903 281 47.32

dilbullah is losing powers. we have a new kid to take over him.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jan 2011 20:47

They almost lost the series , but thanks to kallis

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 06 Jan 2011 20:53

If SA was so uber aggressive they should have declared when they went past 300 and had a go at the meek Indians who were cowering and shivering in their soiled dhotis.

But they did not. A draw under these circumstances is a victory for us and a defeat for SA.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Jan 2011 20:56

Match drawn. SA showed no ability to dislodge us today. Looks like Steyn did sprain his arm at the loo in the morning after all

Realistically the only side that had a real chance of winning in the last two days was us, and we blew it on day 4. At no time today did SA threaten to make us fight with our back to the wall - we just ground them down with plenty of comfort.

SA just does not do the gung ho winning push like the Aussie side of the early/mid 2000s did. They're just not that spontaneous. If their plan doesn't work, there's no plan B - their plan A went on all day today.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 06 Jan 2011 21:05

Yesss. TFTA aggressive SA relegated to second position. SDRE India remains numero uno. Let us celebrate before we move onto WC 2011.
India will lose onlee

ashokpachori · Post by **ashokpachori** » 06 Jan 2011 21:07

Not sure why you think drawn matches are so bad

Sandeep you wont find this (draw) situation in MANY sports, whereby an outcome is indecisive. Sports are played to win, to acheive, and not to loose or get tied with your opponent.

Think of those spectators who are out there with a five day pass in the stadia, and our team is scoring at snails pace, just to remain on the safe side.

People come to watch the fun and not otherwise Sandeep. Either you win, or you loose, but not in a middle ground to speak of to the detriment to paying public. Public wants 4s, 6s, aggressive batting - show them the beef!

What if Duckworth-Lewis method is introduced? will not they pull up thier socks and boost thier strike rate?

Look at Sehwag, he slamms every ball, be it test or ODI, his strike rate in the test remains close to hundred most of the time. Why this kind of temperament is absent in others?

You know there are pros and cons to every thingy.
If it is a draw, so be it.
I was just putting up my perception of what I have seen of Indian cricket along the years on the table.

Its all good though....we are here for the pros and con after all, and not to harrass others, or get harrassed.

Its dinner time guys, enjoy wherever you might be.
Buenas noche.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Jan 2011 21:12

So whta made you think only india was playing for a draw, it looked to me even SA was more than happy to play for one

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Jan 2011 21:17

After this draw, India will have only 9 point advantage instead of 13 point diff they had on Dec 5. SA is closing in.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 06 Jan 2011 21:18

ashokpachori wrote:
Not sure why you think drawn matches are so bad

Sandeep you wont find this (draw) situation in MANY sports, whereby an outcome is indecisive. Sports are played to win, to acheive, and not to loose or get tied with your opponent.

Think of those spectators who are out there with a five day pass in the stadia, and our team is scoring at snails pace, just to remain on the safe side.

People come to watch the fun and not otherwise Sandeep. Either you win, or you loose, but not in a middle ground to speak of to the detriment to paying public. Public wants 4s, 6s, aggressive batting - show them the beef!

What if Duckworth-Lewis method is introduced? will not they pull up thier socks and boost thier strike rate?

Look at Sehwag, he slamms every ball, be it test or ODI, his strike rate in the test remains close to hundred most of the time. Why this kind of temperament is absent in others?

Come on.. do you even know what test cricket is?