Telangana Monitor

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2011 02:37

ramana wrote:His latest
Politics Party guy claims the SKC report is a MMS ploy.

You remember my Andhra friend outside BRF, who is on the united AP camp? He asked me a question almost implying the same thing. "Do you think this report could have been influenced by politicians?". My answer was "Yes, there are definite chances, in India, for reports to be politically influenced. Was this report influenced? I do not know!". Then I ask him why he was suspicious. He said "the report seems to be so one-sided". He used to be on the INC camp, now because of the Jagan-INC split, he now totally supports Jagan and is anti-INC. He used to like Rahul, now not. He had confessed decades ago he was a communist sympathizer. A very nice simple and good person. And countries are filled with such nice simple and good people who are influenced by politicians.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Jan 2011 03:03

Thank you SwamyG, just trying to provide a voice to non-AP and non-Telangana group

I agree Mupallaji that you are a staunch supporter of BJP and have a very nuanced take on Telangana issue but neither am I a Telangana Vadi nor an ignoramus regarding ground position in AP. So my humble request to pro-united AP folks is to stop making it an AP Vs Telangana issue to the exclusion of entire nation as a stakeholder. Involve and invite people as stakeholders instead of resorting to "lay off", "thug ka bhai thug" or "ch ch you are so Sun-Tzutiya onlee". Guess what? If I believe that a party with 110+ seats in a house that requires simple majority to divide my state is ignorant about my state I will make an effort to reach out and lobby. Plain and simple lobby, explain and convince.

Coming back to your excellent post Mupallaji. I have a slightly different take on the issue form the perspective of political situation nationally and its impact on AP's current predicament. I shall use your post liberally to construct the flow

Muppalla wrote:They see TRS getting substantial portion of the 17 seats. By making too many pro-T statements when the tempers are high they are targetting a future TRS as a partner in NDA. They know that this is a done deal and will not hang on for the next elections.

Perfectly valid and sound point! 42-17=25 seats and that too fought between TDP, INC and Jagan now that makes eminent political sense. However let us rewind a bit and assume that Telangana is not formed and all T-vadis are put into jails and heavy police presence is used to beat the support down. Will TRS still not reap benefits? So let us grant that they have played a very selfish political card that is fortuitously in sync with their historic policy but is it anti-national? No. Anti-certain pride? Yes. Will abandoning Telangana or opposing it by reversing their long standing policy and thus losing credibility NATIONALLY help them as a force in AP? Maybe yes or maybe no!
I think they do not have a choice in this fiasco given their historic position and decisions. For good or for bad they are in T-camp but that does not make anyone anti-national.

It would be interesting to see how they would have handled if there was widespread opposition to creation of Uttankhand in the rest of the UP or in MP. In Bihar both congress and BJP tricked the people with the power mongering Laloo Yadav.

It is to their credit and adroit political management that they managed to extract out mineral rich areas from home states and granted statehood to those regions without any issues. I believe a lot of the current mess is due to ruling party's failure to adequately manage the issue. Making new states is a political issue and cannot be controlled by economic or steam rolling or pressure cooker tactics.

However, in a highly tempered situation, Nitin Gadakari's statement that T will be their first bill if they come to power will go very wrongly on the otherside. They probably have no plans to be a party there which is a sad strategy. He is trying to put INC in deep trouble. Creation of T by INC is an immediate fall of central government and lot of establishment know that part.

And second bill will be for Vidharbha. Anybody who has followed Mr Gadkari's political career knows how close that issue is to his heart! Coming from a overpowered region in his own state he is a huge champion for granting statehood to such regions. Infact I fully expect Vidharbha to be next state in India if Telanagana statehood is back-burnered for this round. Regarding the fall of central government, despite being a nationalist I realistically believe there is less than 1% chance of that even if T state comes into being. Politicians are a thick skinned lot to lose power that easily and see bee eye will help bridge a gap of 10-20 emm pees.

Gorkhaland will be the worst state that India can create. Just see in on Google maps. I cannot even comprehend the BJP's small states policy. Dividing Hindi heartland is way different from dividing the other parts and the non-core parts will be a dangerous step

Yup that is the logic used against it by aware citizens and some strategic experts but for reasons OT here I believe there is some merit to the claim. Although I am not fully convinced about it either....

So in a nutshell yes BJP is following the past of least resistance and has given up on other regions of AP barring Telanagana for now! Their strategy is mainly led by champions of small states who themselves are fighting or have fought for small states. Telangana is an excellent political opportunity and this gels perfectly with their stated policy on small states, they are doing what they profess to do. So with this the only thing that stands between Telangana and statehood are internal political calculations of INC. The calculations seem to favor a status quo or an extended stalemate. So that is that! Joint AP and T-Vadis should hope and pray for favorable reports by a certain agency known for conducting internal political surveys......

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2011 03:21

Munna, Through out Indian history there were consolidators (Bharata to Pandavas to Sardar Patel) and there were dividers (Duryodhana to Jinnah). Ithihas or kaal remembers only the consolidators.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Jan 2011 03:34

ramana wrote:Munna, Through out Indian history there were consolidators (Bharata to Pandavas to Sardar Patel) and there were dividers (Duryodhana to Jinnah). Ithihas or kaal remembers only the consolidators.

Similarly throughout the history of India people have fought on the sides of dharma (Puru, Sanga, Partap) and adharma (Jaichand, Mir Zafar). Given the recent history of AP and what was going around Lord Balajis abode in full view of cognizant citizenry...... Kaal will remember that too and finally take a decision on balance. As in Mahabharat their morality is not absolute nor are the means to achieve dharma but dharma they are fighting for. Let the kaal and mahakaal decide this....

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Jan 2011 03:43

ramana wrote:Munna, Through out Indian history there were consolidators (Bharata to Pandavas to Sardar Patel) and there were dividers (Duryodhana to Jinnah). Ithihas or kaal remembers only the consolidators.

Correctly put. Munna is wrongly interpreting that United Andhras are against Telangana people and when I'm critical of BJP.

If need be, dirt on TRS/KCR can be done, they will be gone. (Think about how they brought Narasimhan and kicked out ND Tiwari).
When that happens BJP will be gone with them due to their one-sided antics.

Which side BJP is in in this imagery. For Telugus such imagery is powerful.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Jan 2011 04:05

munna wrote:
However, in a highly tempered situation, Nitin Gadakari's statement that T will be their first bill if they come to power will go very wrongly on the otherside. They probably have no plans to be a party there which is a sad strategy. He is trying to put INC in deep trouble. Creation of T by INC is an immediate fall of central government and lot of establishment know that part.
And second bill will be for Vidharbha. Anybody who has followed Mr Gadkari's political career knows how close that issue is to his heart! Coming from a overpowered region in his own state he is a huge champion for granting statehood to such regions. Infact I fully expect Vidharbha to be next state in India if Telanagana statehood is back-burnered for this round. Regarding the fall of central government, despite being a nationalist I realistically believe there is less than 1% chance of that even if T state comes into being. Politicians are a thick skinned lot to lose power that easily and see bee eye will help bridge a gap of 10-20 emm pees.

What you're saying is he has AP BJP mindset. Good luck BJP then! It is time to kick him out and bring Modi to save BJP.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2011 04:07

I think BJP is being wrongly slammed in this case. As Munna has explained BJP has a known stance on smaller states.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Jan 2011 04:12

SwamyG wrote:I think BJP is being wrongly slammed in this case. As Munna has explained BJP has a known stance on smaller states.

With their small states stance why not come up proposal to have Hyderabad state and Northern Telangan state which will be smaller than Telangana state. If BJP is quite, all the T nonsense will be quite down quickly. Congress wiped its hands with SKC. BJP is still making noises.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 08 Jan 2011 04:14

munna wrote:
ramana wrote:Munna, Through out Indian history there were consolidators (Bharata to Pandavas to Sardar Patel) and there were dividers (Duryodhana to Jinnah). Ithihas or kaal remembers only the consolidators.
Similarly throughout the history of India people have fought on the sides of dharma (Puru, Sanga, Partap) and adharma (Jaichand, Mir Zafar). Given the recent history of AP and what was going around Lord Balajis abode in full view of cognizant citizenry..... Kaal will remember that too and finally take a decision on balance. As in Mahabharat their morality is not absolute nor are the means to achieve dharma but dharma they are fighting for. Let the kaal and mahakaal decide this....

What is this got to do with AP being divided? If you are implying that God is punishing AP (apparently only people on the south of Krishna river), he should punish the whole of India too. Perhaps he is. If you are such a believer of Kaal, I would like to know your explanation for such a pathetic state of affairs in India.

At least I can understand the frustration of my fellow telugu people in Telangana with our politicians and misfiring their hatred against us. We lived together for 54 years and thousands of years before and we will get through it. But what is the reason for you to foster this kind of hatred? Do you live in AP or any where near? Did you read SKC report? Or is it a simple case of Telangana having potential to get few seats for BJP in the next elections after this division or much more sinister ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2011 04:20

I can't believe that graphic. Its so close to my thinking.

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To show the crassness of the demands one needs to translate the dialog of Dushashsana figure.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2011 04:40

munna ji, though I am a supporter of a BJP and will continue to be, I have a strong disagreement with their small state policy. Yes you can attribute the bias to my United AP stand. I beleive Jharkhand and Chattisgargh are disasters. Hopefully when we defeat maoism these states may become rich and decent. Let us wish them good. However, I beleive that there would have been no difference had Chattisgargh been with MP. Chauhan types would have done the same great job with no big load on him. On the otherhand entire MP police would have helped in driving out maoist without the salwa judm etc. This is one split that really happened willingly.

Regarding Jharkhand, the state was formed at a difficult situation of Bihar. Let us be honest here. Entire Bihar was burning like never before. The people are actually more scared of their lives on a day to day basis with goons swomping everywhere. Laloo's regime was probably worse than an Aurangajeb or a Genghis Khan type regime. It is a situation where a commoner who left his home has no gaurantee to retun home without being kidnapped. In such a situation, people though are very attached to state has no big energy to fight it out. The whole state is poor and due to the circumstances the population surprisingly found JHK formation is a lower priority in the lives. For Laloo he is ready bid anything to save his gaddi and hence he accepted the seperation.

It is not that difficult to get a consensus and there were no violent oppositions to these states. Had there been a violent and opposition, could they behave insensitively like what Nitin Gadakari did last week? It is a hypothetical question but my hunch they will not have the ability to afford insensitivity to one or other regions.

AP is a colateral for several political, national and also anti-national forces. He used it in the sameway but commoners will not understand all this analysis. They will just watch him on TV9 and will spit on the BJP. What I am saying is BJP has effectively closed itself to a large population of about five crores permanently.

I gaurantee with a bet Nitin Gadakari will never be able to deliver Vidharba. Marathas will burn any altercation to Maharashtra borders irrespective of Vidharaba sentiment. The regional forces of Maha though did not rule like TDP in AP are more capable in terms of bringing Mumbai down. You will not be able to secure entire Mumbai like the way Hyd is secured today. Every non-Maharashtrian will start feeling insecure and the stock market will go down. Without absolute consensus, if BJP tries that with the type of insensitivey that they are showing to non-T folks they will be paying higher cost. That is a potential state as they are in opposition there.

Regarding small states- yes there was a manthan inside Sangh Parivaar. Current RSS chief Mohan Bhagawatji initially opposed T and he made even a statement against smaller states and he even said it is against national interest and security. But later due to internal pressures his secretary (whom I met personally) reversed the statement blaming it as misinterpretation of press.

Regarding current politics:
It will be only prudent for INC to complete the rollback that they started in January 2010. If they have to give T there is no need for SKC. Now SKC has given its verdict, there will be no way they can go ahead with T.

I have put the numbers, they are falling short of 272 and they have to risk a razor thin dealing in Budget session.
T has to pass the cabinet. Mamata (19 MPs) is vehemently opposing T as she is not interested in the shit that will fall from CPM due to Bengali's emotional interest in keeping Darjeeling as part of WB. By the way Mamata may even leave as she is feeling the pressure of 2G too much for her to be associated with the taint. Her single point goal is WB CM. Similar reasons for Pranab Da's overwhelming opposition to T so far. Vidharbha is not in the interest of another Maratha. By the way even Shivsena will oppose T as it will ultimately come towards Vidharbha.

Even if they dupe the cabinet, if they have to give T they have to substract 19 from Mamta, 25 from AP congress and also there are several others like Mulayam will oppose the bill. They could pass it with BJP help on this bill but the number of wickets that will fall will put them in a situation that they have to allign with BJP. It will be a miracle to go through such an excercise.

Do I need to explain their plight in RS. They are in a miserable situation. Mamta, AP INC leaving them will put then like the Aussies against the mighty English of the recently concluded Ashes.

In the end politically who is achieving what? Bruised congress and no-advantage BJP. This may have serious churn across the nation regarding the loyalties to both INC and BJP.

If they take the brunt now and stick to soothing the T with some packages and a electable autonomous council for T, INC has a room to manuover. The option of Hyd as UT is one of the strawman that they will use in the negotiations. Here they have 10 MPs and honestly none of them have the clout equivalant to the other 25. Some of them could be bought. Per latest news, the plan they are leaning towards this is to clamp president's rule immediately so that resignations of various MLAs from parties will not become a scoring points. The only problem is the 10 MPs and they can afford to lose some and others will be bought in. KCR can be manipulatable as they know his dealings. He could be brought down after some cooling down.

By doing this they can show the loyalty of the party towards the untied-AP and win back the MPs hobnobbing with Jagan and there is a chance to blunt Jagan's juggernaut.

They have an opportunity between a chance to revive Vs. becoming irrelevant. Let us see what they want to choose.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2011 04:48

ShyamSP wrote:With their small states stance why not come up proposal to have Hyderabad state and Northern Telangan state which will be smaller than Telangana state.

That is a slippery slope argument you are making. Why stop there, huh? Why not make every muhala a state? INC washing off their hands is not big surprise.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 08 Jan 2011 04:52

SwamyG wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:With their small states stance why not come up proposal to have Hyderabad state and Northern Telangan state which will be smaller than Telangana state.
That is a slippery slope argument you are making. Why stop there, huh? Why not make every muhala a state? INC washing off their hands is not big surprise.

That is the whole point.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2011 04:52

SwamyG wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:With their small states stance why not come up proposal to have Hyderabad state and Northern Telangan state which will be smaller than Telangana state.
That is a slippery slope argument you are making. Why stop there, huh? Why not make every muhala a state? INC washing off their hands is not big surprise.

If the nation braces this challenge and not create this T state then I gaurantee you that this whole small states argument will be shut down for ever. This is pure time and resource waste on nation.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 08 Jan 2011 04:53

The problem, I believe, is not really with BJP's ideological support for smaller states. You can support smaller states, and still be not militant or extreme about it. For example, CPI supports Telangana, but never resorts to the extreme and insensitive behavior of BJP leaders.

BJP, being a national party, should behave better than a sub-regional party like TRS. But, the BJP leaders' behavior in AP is no better than that of TRS leaders and local T-fanatics. All we are saying is that BJP being a national party should behave with greater sensitivity towards the rest of AP folks, even while supporting T-state.

For example, BJP "leaders" like Vidyasagar Rao routinely say extremely offensive things like, "If you don't install Komaram Bheem's statue on the tank bund, we will destroy every other statue," or, that the state of AP should not celebrate its own formation, or express support for the OU students even as they are indulging in wanton arson and property destruction, or say things like we will not folks return to Hyderabad after Sankranti festival. Is this what one expects of the "nationalist" BJP? Support T... fine, but this? No.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 08 Jan 2011 04:55

Sarma wrote:The problem, I believe, is not really with BJP's ideological support for smaller states. You can support smaller states, and still be not militant or extreme about it. For example, CPI supports Telangana, but never resorts to the extreme and insensitive behavior of BJP leaders.

BJP, being a national party, should behave better than a sub-regional party like TRS. But, the BJP leaders' behavior in AP is no better than that of TRS leaders and local T-fanatics. All we are saying is that BJP being a national party should behave with greater sensitivity towards the rest of AP folks, even while supporting T-state.

Excellent point.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2011 05:31

ShyamSP wrote:
Muppalla wrote:One thing I understand is that anyone who is supporting HYD as joint capital are actually creating a strawman to basically oppose division of state and nothing else. Telangana without Hyderabad is not forming and an impossibility. I believe Swami JS and also Puttaparthi Saibaba opposed the split of the state and got severe flak for such a stand. IIRC, in HYD when JS was visiting, the government ended up upgrading his security some Z++ an year ago. He now supporting an option from SKC that looks like a compromise should be looked from that perspective.
Ha! you got it. It will politically correct to say and saying so will demolish BJP's "oh! I'm for small states" and TRS's money-making options.

Congress will escape with "we went through due process and there is no consensus to split"

CBN's two-eyes will be intact. PRP's MLA-seat selling business is intact. MIM no longer need to start riots as BJP is out!
"Chicken" Narayana will continue to win a few CPI seats in Telangana.

Jagan! oh my poor Jagan!

Seriously, the option of expanding Hyderabad so that it can be made like Chandigarh is a fiction of highest order. They have written carve this mandal and that mandal of so and so districts. Hillarious and I hope they did not ask to split mandals and talukas too. If we write a fiction novel of "Let us manufacture smaller states of India" this HYD as common capital will be more fictious than Chennai as UT being shared as capital between new states called Rayalaseema and abridged TN. In that fiction there will be Vanniyar Nadu with Marymatapuram as Capital of S.Tam state with a winter capital as Yehovanagar. We can have Trichi as the capital of the real cultural hearland state carved out of TN's Cauvery Delta. All these are created by Fourth SRC commission created by the Prime Minister Omar Abdullah who is supported by Rahul Gandhi as a coalition partner.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2011 05:52

Dasari wrote:
SwamyG wrote:That is a slippery slope argument you are making. Why stop there, huh? Why not make every muhala a state? INC washing off their hands is not big surprise.
That is the whole point.

It is a stupid point. Smaller states does not mean eventually we should and would end up with city-states. Rather than trash talking BJP, it would be useful to convince BJP and others why the small-state solution is not applicable to say AP. For example, let us say BJP believed all MPs should wear Suit, tie and woolen mufflers. It probably will not face resistance in colder climes, but not in the warmer and hotter climes. So if BJP were to apply it universally, does it not make sense to convince BJP why such attire is not suitable in the warmer climes? Instead what I see is questioning of the form - "What is BJP going to ask us to wear woolen underwear too?". It might be a nice joke but it does not prove anything to anyone.

Sarma: I totally agree with your points and sentiments. Leaders should behave responsibly, especially leaders from national parties; and I again agree that if leaders are not sensitive to people's feelings and opinion, then these leaders will be thrown out in the next elections.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2011 06:01

Muppalla wrote:Seriously, the option of expanding Hyderabad so that it can be made like Chandigarh is a fiction of highest order. They have written carve this mandal and that mandal of so and so districts. Hillarious and I hope they did not ask to split mandals and talukas too. If we write a fiction novel of "Let us manufacture smaller states of India" this HYD as common capital will be more fictious than Chennai as UT being shared as capital between new states called Rayalaseema and abridged TN. In that fiction there will be Vanniyar Nadu with Marymatapuram as Capital of S.Tam state with a winter capital as Yehovanagar. We can have Trichi as the capital of the real cultural hearland state carved out of TN's Cauvery Delta. All these are created by Fourth SRC commission created by the Prime Minister Omar Abdullah who is supported by Rahul Gandhi as a coalition partner.

You could not avoid breaking up Tamil Nadu, could you ?

I wonder if you would taken Karanataka as an example. I doubt it.

Jokes apart, Hyderabad as a UT will prolong animosity among people. It is SO inside the Telangana. Like I said there are just two practical options, rest all are maya to cloud the people and to show people yes we thought about other possibilities two.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 08 Jan 2011 06:05

Step 1 - rename andhra pradesh to 'telugu pradesh' or something.
step 2 - close down osmania univ indefnitely/permanently.
step 3 - go with regional boards or whatever.
step 4 - get jairam ramesh to declare that rioters/protestors must first seek environmental clearance for riots/protests....
step 5 - get on with the regional boards program. Have co-capitals developed in kurnool and vizag maybe.
step 6 - yawn.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Jan 2011 06:19

Mupallaji excellent post and I appreciate your comments against the small state policy of BJP. But I am not here to defend BJP nor it's policies but I can offer you some insight into why they do some things or not. They jumped into this fray after certain high ranking minister in GOI forgot to keep his trap shut and were actually a late comer to the party. Well things are what they are, BJP has taken a risk and it seems for now turned its back on rest of AP. Fine it's their decision and they will bear its results but it is certainly not anti-this or anti-that.
Coming to the larger issue I believe the long term structural problem for AP is the kind of leadership it elected post Naidu. I am at loss of words for the kind of assaults that were made on our cultural and historic heritage while everybody sat silent! When we talk of shared history of 5000 years we also should look at ourselves and see what was happening to it under a famous leader's watch. Much stuff has happened after that. We may see a new state or not see a new state but we must realize the kind of damage sustained by AP has been immense physically, culturally and economically. To recover from it the name calling (no matter how justified or unjustified) has to stop and a lot of pride will have to be swallowed on all sides. Otherwise with a disaffected section of populace tomorrow shall see a new minister and a new cycle of stupidity.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Jan 2011 06:38

munna wrote:Coming to the larger issue I believe the long term structural problem for AP is the kind of leadership it elected post Naidu. I am at loss of words for the kind of assaults that were made on our cultural and historic heritage while everybody sat silent! When we talk of shared history of 5000 years we also should look at ourselves and see what was happening to it under a famous leader's watch. Much stuff has happened after that. We may see a new state or not see a new state but we must realize the kind of damage sustained by AP has been immense physically, culturally and economically. To recover from it the name calling (no matter how justified or unjustified) has to stop and a lot of pride will have to be swallowed on all sides. Otherwise with a disaffected section of populace tomorrow shall see a new minister and a new cycle of stupidity.

While there were EJ hiccups, 3 things killed EJs in AP - KA Paul, YSR/Anil, Economic downturn.

EJs need to be pushed back but AP is less worrisome.

munna wrote:Coming to the larger issue I believe the long term structural problem for AP is the kind of leadership it elected post Naidu.

There are no long-term structural problems in AP but a nuisance problem created by so-called National parties INC and BJP in their politcal games to screw regional parties so they can be seen as tall figures.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Jan 2011 06:38

I like the 6 th option of Seldonji. Best for every one because INC is not going to do anything fast.

Unlike some of the supporters of BJP here, I held positions in BJP before joining service. Just yesterday I telphoned one Dist General Sec of BJP and he said they are fed of with Telangana leaders of BJP making all kind of irresposible statements day after day and complainted to the national leadership internally. Over action is not needed by BJP. Further 3 states created by BJP were done after getting resulutions from respective assemblys. That will never happen here. BJP started a tradition of getting every one on board first and then proceeding with the division. It could do well in respect of 3 state creation and other than Lalu no one even opened their mouth. I was in MP when it was divided and I can say there was no ill feeling, no agitations of this kind and nothing. In fact many people from Chattisgarh asked educated people from MP to come the settle in Chattisgarh so that their state will be benifited by them.

BJP is now supporting this agitation because its leaders of from Telangana and it thinks it will come to power there in near future and that is it. no priciples of small states etc. Only power game.

In respect of who insulted whom, better read Telugu news papers are TV news for that last years then people can judge for them selves. Unfortunately few of the people seems to be followers of Telugu Media and TV's.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2011 06:58

Munna,
BJP is not a player in Andhra Pradesh and even in Telangana. So lets not bring in BJP and get them whipped despite having little presence. They didn't create the problem nor can they solve it. all our simulations showed they dont have any significant presence.

INC is the issue here. They created it and are trying to give it to others. By bringing BJP in your are taking that burden.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Jan 2011 07:11

ramana wrote:INC is the issue here. They created it and are trying to give it to others. By bringing BJP in your are taking that burden.

Rightly pointed and I accept your point.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Jan 2011 07:30

munna wrote:
Manny wrote:Its time India has China like Dictatorship to bring order rather than todays anarchy! JMO.
Looks like Hakim sahib has let off another one of those piskology patakha (piskology firework). Mannyji do not let emotions overrule your just and peace loving mind. Please do not advocate such a drastic regime change in India.

You mean when we already have the essence of dictatorship why shame it by making it formal?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2011 07:31

SKC report hailed by L Rajgopal

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Jan 2011 07:38

ramana wrote:Munna,
BJP is not a player in Andhra Pradesh and even in Telangana. So lets not bring in BJP and get them whipped despite having little presence. They didn't create the problem nor can they solve it. all our simulations showed they dont have any significant presence.

INC is the issue here. They created it and are trying to give it to others. By bringing BJP in your are taking that burden.

They are creators of T problem in 90s Congress subsequently effectively used it.

While they don't have significance, they are stone-throwers in this T problem.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 08 Jan 2011 07:43

Why is "splitting" bad? After all in India it seems that anything done on a massive scale is good and okay, the same thing done at a small scale could be bad and worth the gallows! Terror on a amassive scale is okay - its popular grievance and there must be histroical trauma/lack of development and onlee economic reasons behind such grievance! Terror on a small scale is bad and people allegedly behind them must be hung!

So splitting massively under Partitions was okay - no one was to be punished, and in fact survivors of the perpetrators must be mollycoddled. TRS and Hyderabadi factions have done their terrorizing of the state apparatus on a massive scale so they must be accommodated. ULFA has terrorized on a massive scale and wanted to split off Assam on an exclusive basis - so they must be appeased and accommodated. Geelani and Kashmir Valley dancers wanted to split off on an exclusive basis and terrorized ona massive scale - so they must be genuine and appeased.

Its only doing it on a small scale that must be crushed! So the lesson is that terror must increase on a massive and overwhelming scale - only then it becomes legitimate and genuine! Split Delhi for a start, then Mumbai. Both cities have extensive inter -mohalla rivalries and distinct identities. In fact most so-called linguistically homogeneous states have different areas and social levels speak differently. So those subregions must be legitimate separate states. Only thing they must do a massively destructive agitation and terrorize all and sundry on the most preposterous claims of exclusivity. Anything goes - except of course anything that looks like a 2saffron" demand.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 08 Jan 2011 07:45

Dasari wrote:
SwamyG wrote:That is a slippery slope argument you are making. Why stop there, huh? Why not make every muhala a state? INC washing off their hands is not big surprise.
That is the whole point.

SwamyG wrote:It is a stupid point. Smaller states does not mean eventually we should and would end up with city-states.

That is what is called slippery slope. So the stupidity started there.

If BJP is serious about smaller states, it should start where they are strong, like Maharastra. As per planning commission study done few years ago, 10 districts of Maharstara, mostly vidarbha, were in the top 100 poorest districts of India. Telanagana had none, which is in line with what SKC commission has found. Perhaps there is clear case for separate state for Vidarbha. Such policy would be called, a policy based on principles. Where as BJP has no presence in AP and there is no regional based backwardness, yet they want to create separate state to win 1 or 2 MP seats in the next Lok Sabha elections. This is called political opportunism. They exhibited the political opportunism once before when they failed to fulfill their Kakinada election promise of 'one vote - two states'. They did split Bihar, MP and UP but not AP. They used TDP as an excuse. God forbid, if BJP comes to power with support of YS Jagan/Gali Janardan reddy, history will repeat again. Enough of BJP nonsense.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2011 07:46

Narayana Rao wrote:In respect of who insulted whom, better read Telugu news papers are TV news for that last years then people can judge for them selves. Unfortunately few of the people seems to be followers of Telugu Media and TV's.

Narayana Rao garu, How can all Indians understand Telugu or even understand the rhetoric that KCR or the T-agitationist talk? Its references is better avoided on this thread.

It is alway true in any conflict, the victim or the one who fakes as a victim will use the abusive language about whom he is building the case. Please take out the "T" issue from the mind and think through a very simple conflict like the thing between mother-in-law and daughter-in-law. One of them who complains will use a language that will have the punch line.

It is same about T-vaadhis like KCR or other T-agitationists. It is very well expected and if they do not you should be surprised. The amazing part is most of the folks who are coming on TV from the supporters of united-AP are also very measured in the language that is used to criticize T-vaadhis. They think they have a good case and hence they defended with method and not madness. I am not saying there zero rhetoric but it is extremely minimal.

If we are talking about united-AP, TRS and T are part of AP's life and if we fall for the rhetoric and respond in similar way then non-Telugus will think that there are two "warring factions". The case that is built by Seemandhra leaders is that they are for Telugu unity and in that they want to see T folks as equal and they built the case without any KCR type responses. In their strategy there is only one warring and not two "warring factions". Even the aggressive Lagadapati types also went on talking history, pride and statistics. If I were you and a passionate United-Andhra type I will just underplay KCR's rhethoric as though it is nothing but just his style.

Did you listen to Kavuri Sambasiva Rao's response to SKC? One minute and very measured and no gloating victory etc. But the other MPs celebrated the vindication of their case.

TRS spoiled the image by first including Gaddar and then Swami Agnivesh and now we have Arundhathi Roy. The whole movement easily got branded as by the Naxals and for the Naxals. Couple of days back he said he will wash Sonia's feet if she gives T. Later T MPs fell on Pranab's feet begging for T. Those are the images they created. When everything settles down I am sure the T people will take a note of the behaviour of their representatives.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Jan 2011 07:49

brihaspati wrote: You mean when we already have the essence of dictatorship why shame it by making it formal?

why do you want to dig things from the memory hole and get this honest party worker in trouble with minitru. When pain and hurt becomes unbearable it becomes dark humor. What can I say? Today some crazed minister was asking for environmental clearance for a mandir in Delhi. Phew...

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 08 Jan 2011 08:03

Sheela Bhatt is a loyal CON party dynasty licking journalist.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 0107.htm[b]
Why Srikrishna report is of no use to the Congress[/b]

The Srikrishna committee report's biggest failure, from the Congress's point of view, is that it has not been able to take the steam out of Union Minister P Chidambaram's political blunder of December 9, 2009.

The Congress is back to square one. So once again it is trying to buy time. They want the issue to be be stretched till 2014 (when state assembly elections are due). Only on eve of that election they would like to take a final call for or against Telangana.

The CON and EJ Dienasty game has to be defeated and we have to take the country back from ITALIAN MAFIA

One senior Congress leader and former minister told rediff.com that the Telangana people are so excited about the possibility of the new state that in some villages they have started marking homes which belong to people from the Rayalseema and Andhra regions. They think these families will be migrating leaving behind their property once the state of Telangana is formed!

As the Srikrishna report extensively proves that economic reasons are not really compelling for Telangana to demand a separate state.

Sonia has so far not revealed her mind but she or her party cannot escape the conceived promise to the people of Andhra Pradesh that the 'process to create Telangana would be initiated'.

So, in a given complex situation what is most important are three figures -- 42, 17 and 25.

If and when a Telangana state is formed, both parties want to ensure that in Andhra and Rayalseema they should not be blamed for division while in Telangana, the Congress wants to take credit for it. If the demand for Telangana is rejected or not responded to then, the Congress would like to consolidate its position in Andhra and control the damage in Telangana but Jagan Reddy is the main challenge in that aim.

ne less debated point is that currently Muslim population of Telangana is 4.5 percent but, if Hyderabad goes with Telangana, then the total Muslim population of the new state would touch 12.5 percent. That makes a Hyderabad-based party like the All India Majlis-e-Ittihad al-Muslimin quite relevant.

A new state of Telangana with Hyderabad will have better presence of Muslims in the new state assembly, corporations and even in the Lok Sabha. The BJP and TRS will have to take co-operation of 12.5 percent Muslim voters to run the state.

It is now accepted that without Hyderabad going to Telangana the idea of a new state is not viable. Hyderabad's around Rs 70,000 crore's contribution to exchequer is only guarantee of faster amendments in the intra-regional imbalance.

In November 2009, left wing, right wing and Dalit organisations were with TRS and their combined might was able to provoke students but in one year's time things have become more chaotic. They are not so vociferous as in 2009, so far.

The Congress has very few options to save its party's position in a united or divided state.Right now, its only option is to divide and rule the forces in favour of Telangana and those opposing. The final line of the Srikrishna report might have been written for benefit of Congress's leadership.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2011 08:13

ramana wrote:SKC report hailed by L Rajgopal

The commission's report had tried to remove the sorrows of all Telugu people, and had stressed on the emotional attachment of Seemandhra people with Telangana region, the MP said.

The United Andhra protagonist said the commission rightly stressed on the importance of establishing Regional Boards to redress disparities, and developing areas based on the available resources

Whatever he is but that is a measured response. So we are probably heading for regional boards.

vijayK garu, Sheela Butt is all rhona dhona. I don't understand her takleef other than her takleef of INC going down.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 08 Jan 2011 09:20

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 08 Jan 2011 22:09

Telengana people are not putting out their side of the story.where is Satya-Anveshi garu.I would be interested in CRamS's take.He is a Hyderabadi,I think.Surely,he must been having some incisive insight.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2011 22:22

Dasari wrote:If BJP is serious about smaller states, it should start where they are strong, like Maharastra. As per planning commission study done few years ago, 10 districts of Maharstara, mostly vidarbha, were in the top 100 poorest districts of India. Telanagana had none, which is in line with what SKC commission has found. Perhaps there is clear case for separate state for Vidarbha. Such policy would be called, a policy based on principles. Where as BJP has no presence in AP and there is no regional based backwardness, yet they want to create separate state to win 1 or 2 MP seats in the next Lok Sabha elections. This is called political opportunism. They exhibited the political opportunism once before when they failed to fulfill their Kakinada election promise of 'one vote - two states'. They did split Bihar, MP and UP but not AP. They used TDP as an excuse. God forbid, if BJP comes to power with support of YS Jagan/Gali Janardan reddy, history will repeat again. Enough of BJP nonsense.

All political parties will use a given situation to their advantage - it is the inherent nature of the beast a.k.a political party. I would charge BJP too, if they did not have have their stance known earlier. Expecting BJP to start elsewhere is distraction tactics or politics. Better arguments could be in the following lines
1) Show why the entire of "Small States" is bad for the people and the country, or
2) Show why Small States are not good for all regions and people of the country; but are good in some regions.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 08 Jan 2011 22:30

Muppalla wrote:
ramana wrote:SKC report hailed by L Rajgopal

The commission's report had tried to remove the sorrows of all Telugu people, and had stressed on the emotional attachment of Seemandhra people with Telangana region, the MP said.

The United Andhra protagonist said the commission rightly stressed on the importance of establishing Regional Boards to redress disparities, and developing areas based on the available resources
Whatever he is but that is a measured response. So we are probably heading for regional boards.

down.

Why to prolong this takleef? Why not finish the inevitable and let the healing begin?

I don't want to bring this up because it might ruffle some feathers but there is a lot of nepotism in Babudom appointments in AP because the power was concentrated in 2 castes that dominated the political spectrum whether it is CON party or TDP. These appointments may seem like Seema Andhra for Telangana people but most of those are garnered by politically connected communities. I will leave it at that.

Look! Prof. Kondandaram or JayaShakar have been working for 50 years to undo the merger. No amount of progress or statistics is going to satisfy them. There are many ideologues who never reconciled to the idea of merger and they will blame everything and anything that goes wrong on Andhra.

So there is no point in prolonging this. The CLAN is benefiting from all of this. The CLAN wants to extend this till 2014 and at least get 14 seats.

Hyderabad is not the biggest deal. Hopefully Vizag or Vijayawada can become huge development center once they become capital and it can only help the surrounding areas.

I think negotiations have to start in earnest the process should be finished in 3 months.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Jan 2011 22:34

munna wrote:
ramana wrote:INC is the issue here. They created it and are trying to give it to others. By bringing BJP in your are taking that burden.
Rightly pointed and I accept your point.

BJP when it is insignificant will only have tactical vote making policy in that region. It may get some seats in Telengana but that does not reflect the national level at this point

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2011 23:23

vijayk wrote:Why to prolong this takleef? Why not finish the inevitable and let the healing begin?

I don't want to bring this up because it might ruffle some feathers but there is a lot of nepotism in Babudom appointments in AP because the power was concentrated in 2 castes that dominated the political spectrum whether it is CON party or TDP. These appointments may seem like Seema Andhra for Telangana people but most of those are garnered by politically connected communities. I will leave it at that.

Look! Prof. Kondandaram or JayaShakar have been working for 50 years to undo the merger. No amount of progress or statistics is going to satisfy them. There are many ideologues who never reconciled to the idea of merger and they will blame everything and anything that goes wrong on Andhra.

So there is no point in prolonging this. The CLAN is benefiting from all of this. The CLAN wants to extend this till 2014 and at least get 14 seats.

Hyderabad is not the biggest deal. Hopefully Vizag or Vijayawada can become huge development center once they become capital and it can only help the surrounding areas.

I think negotiations have to start in earnest the process should be finished in 3 months.

The process will be finished in less than three months and we are definitively seeing an end game. There will be folks and masses that will be unhappy. That is a given thing. Telangana may not be forming. We all have to start digesting it whether we like it or not.

Clan or dominant caste is there everywhere. If you see any fast developing state economically you will see that. In spite of Modi being at the helm of the affairs, Patels are still the dominant part of Gujarat. Haryana - take out Jats and see. Karnataka - it is lingayats all the way for the foreseeable feature.

For Reddys and Kammas as competitive castes occupying one of two giant parties should not be seen from that way. There are many other competitive ways to break the stranglehold. One has to analyze and do what Kammas did to break the Reddys only stranglehold in the 80s. Though you cannot replicate exactly there will be modern ways to do that. Chiranjeevi had a chance but he miserably failed from the start.

The problem is in the case that Telangana tried to build for getting the statehood . The problem is still continuing in the argument when they are opposing the SKC statistical details. In my opinion the following two may be completely missing in the SKC.

(1) Comparison of Number of entrepreneurs from Telangana region to that entrepreneurs from Rayalaseema and Coastal region. I will bet Telangana will be miles below in this list. This should have been molded with sufficient repercussions and conclusions in the fight for Telangana

(2) Remove Hyderabad, Vizag and Tirupati from the list of urban centers and compare the size and GDP/revenue generation capabilities of rest of the urban centers like Rajamundry, Eluru, Guntur etc. to that Warangal, Bhodhan, etc. of Telangana region. In this measurement also Coastal regions and Rayalaseema cities and towns will beat out Telangana cities by miles

There could be several other intelligent modern day life things such as capitalism based growth etc., could have been used in the campaign for Telangana statehood.

They should show the historical suppression of people during pre independent era as the reason for not catching up with the menacing-cut-throat-capitalistic Andhras. They should have built a case where by having a state, they could develop at a pace where they will have a better role in independently chalking out their own growth story, rather than being permanently second and third to other regional successes.

In addition, their arguments should include that their political setup will never get the industrial and business lobby as the other side can get because of sheer size of the gap and their politicians will never ever have power to call the shots.

Importantly, they should have shown a strategy of no-vengeance-against other regions.

The probability of successfully getting Telangana state with such arguments may be a success when the argument for smaller states is current in the nation.

The blunders are :
(1) From the outset they made common Andhras as villains. (2) Their statistics, their sloganeering is exactly same as what naxal front ends talk. This is a massively a biggest lose-lose downslide path (3) they always threatened with violence and illusionary wars.

Even if they achieve state due to some political jugglery, they actually lost the case.

By the way Prof. Jaya Shankar is from Nellore per some investigations. If that is true see again who are spearheading T in all aspects of their lives(both positive and negative sides).