LCA News and Discussions

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Jan 2011 05:02

srai wrote: This is the first time and first photo I have seen where the LCA Mk.1 has dropped an "actual" combat bomb. Previously, only the small practice bombs were released (or so it seemed). By being able to drop 1,000lb (or 450kg) bomb and that too very accurately (as shown by other recent trials, bomb releases and the integration of Litening Pod), LCA Mk.1 (as is) can be used as a potent tactical strike aircraft, replacing both the MiG-21 and MiG-27 in their roles.

SRai, these pics are very old (were posted like one year ago) and was part of ADA press release.

here is another pic of the same event

rakeshkumar · Post by **rakeshkumar** » 08 Jan 2011 05:03

eagerly waiting for jan 10th , that too on my birthday , it can't get better than this ........

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Jan 2011 05:14

Sid wrote:
srai wrote:

Whats on the centreline pylon? LITENING targeting pod?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Jan 2011 05:30

indranilroy wrote:
Sid wrote:
Whats on the centreline pylon? LITENING targeting pod?

yeah. I know, it looks weird

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2011 05:31

indranilroy wrote:
Whats on the centreline pylon? LITENING targeting pod?

Yes its a Litening but the designated point is not the centerline but under the left intake. The corresponding spot on the right has the cannon. See the mock up in this video with the Litening and cockeyed cannon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vttav5DIfjA

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 08 Jan 2011 05:32

IIRC that pylon is specifically for LITENING and is under the intake (is not centerline)

It is the station 8

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Jan 2011 05:40

Its been a while and no prototype or mockup seems to suggest that there will be any other, so called, "centerline pylon".

I think they have moved on with LDP (not exactly in center though).

Also, IMHO, isn't placing of the cannon might be the reason why we still haven't seen any "centerline pylon".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2011 05:53

Singha wrote:mk2 could use this type of conformal missile bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CRF53SN ... r_embedded#!

At 1:09 the flame from the musharraf of the missile engulfs the left tailplane. Frightening looking stuff and the two halves of my brain say two different things about that. The Indian half of my brain tells me that the stupid engineers could not have anticipated this because I am cleverer than them. The American half of my brain says the Yanquis are very competent and know exactly what they are doing.

But seriously the damage from that cannot be zero. it may be "negligible" but not zero. Sorry. OT

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Jan 2011 06:00

All, thanks for the correction.

I don't think that they will give up the centerline pylon so easily.It is a very sturdy point of the plane where a lot of stress can be borne there. also it doesn't disturb the CG.

AFAIK, they didn't have a starboard side pylon because they had the gun there. The centerline hardpoint was there even with the gun.

Actually look at this picture, if there was no provision to have something under the centerline, they would have designed the port side pylon vertically.

Also Gurneesh's pic does show the gun port and the centreline and port side hardpoints.

I hope I am not reading more into it.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 08 Jan 2011 06:21

One final confirmation needed is if the LCA has fired its cannon. I guess firing a cannon is the most vital thing left, due to impact of gun gas ingestion(mig27 & Flt.lt Nachiket episode). Integration methodology of rocket pod might more or less be similar to integration of r-73 ? And yeah the only thing that i know about an aircraft is that it flies in air

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Jan 2011 06:34

indranilroy, as far as I can remember LCA didn't had any pylon to carry LDP in addition to "centerline pylon" in the beginning. Early models displayed three drop tanks plus weapons.

But since last few years none of the LCA mockups shown on defexpos and aero-india have this "cernterline pylon" displayed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2011 07:51

was that bomb drop pic on some range near Tezpur? the riverine nature of the ground indicates it cannot be pokhran.

imo it should be able to carry one bomb or two AAMs on centerline pylon if they desire...no sign of it yet.

the flame from the silent eagle missile launch touches the tailplane momentarily....dont think its enough to singe the beasts thick hide. I am sure with JSF being late, reduced nos, orders going to be reduced, woeful 20lb guided grenade payload, Boeing is going to make a play for new Silent eagles to replace retiring F15E numbers - the most vital a/c in usaf inventory...follow on orders from singpore and Soko are possible and the saudis could convert some of their huge order to silent eagle.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2011 07:59

Singha wrote:mk2 could use this type of conformal missile bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CRF53SN ... r_embedded#!

excellent thoughts there.. prelude to internal weapons design.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Jan 2011 08:01

Sid, may be you are right. I had seen the wind tunnel models with the centerline tested.

This is a cutaway drawing of the LCA. It is not the most recent. But it is a good guide.
LCA line drawings
You can see the colour version too.
http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... lcacut.jpg.

They show only 1 centerline pylon on which the LITENING pod straps on. So, the LCA has 7 hard-points?!!!

Also one can see that the elevon actuator housing is much wider than the actuators. So they have been purposefully made big.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Jan 2011 08:34

Sid, you are mistaken. The original design for the LCA (I have a flight article from the late 90's) always had 7+1 pylons. The extra pylon is for Litening/Electronic Warfare pod, whereas centerline pylon is for fuel primarily, and also possibly munitions. This was done to give maximum flexibility. Currently though, the payload LCA can carry is, at 2.5T level, for a MTOW of 13.5T split between five pylons, with 2 pylons already carrying R73 missiles.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2011 09:17

pandyan wrote: Tin foil alert:
I think this whole stealth wealth business is massa strategy to force all the competing countries to spend massive amounts of money down the drain

Yes. And after everyone goes apeshit doing that massa will say "Oh it's not that important, so our newer aircraft have less of that."

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2011 09:25

^

so true. F117/B2 "stealth is everything" -> F22 -> JSF has been one downhill slide.

I agree that F15E will remain the gold std of strike a/c for next 2 decades and backbone of sher khans teeth for sure. extreme range, speed, tremendous weapons load and diversity, new aesa radars are being fitted, great EW support system, 2 seater, amraam-C7/D....a very successful product makeover if one considers the initial F-15C had the motto "not an ounce for a2g" in pursuit of its a2a airframe.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Jan 2011 09:56

So while we are on discussion on drop-tanks, there is one point which is bugging me for a long time.

Do we need to have different drop-tank designs for super-sonic and sub-sonic flights?

Drop tanks of LCA look more like what we have on Hawk AJT, blunt design (well they look almost same to me). Where as other fighters in IAF inventory have more slender shaped drop-tanks.

X-Posting from KeyPub on this subject -

Well France has 3 types of drop tanks for the mirage 2000 :
RPL-541/542 : 2000L subsonic
RPL-501/502 : 1700L subsonic (?)
RPL-522 : 1300L supersonic

And 2 types for the rafale :

RPL-751 : 2000L subsonic (but up to mach 1.6 when empty)
RPL-711 : 1250L supersonic

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2011 10:46

google searching confirms that drop tanks are 'rated' for supersonic and they would likely be sleeker but smaller while the blunt big ones might have to be dropped if going high supersonic, hence suitable for loitering CAP patrol or ferry missions not lo-lo-lo type supersonic strike profile of the RAF tornado/M2000-D type.

hence I think blunt one for Tejas are fine for now? on a2a missions you need agility and are closer to base, so drop tanks can be dropped, on strike missions far away from home even if you need to run you need the fuel in drop tanks to make it back home hence the need came for supersonic drop tanks I would think.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 08 Jan 2011 11:47

Singha wrote:was that bomb drop pic on some range near Tezpur? the riverine nature of the ground indicates it cannot be pokhran.

I think it's somewhere near Jamnagar. That's where they did the trials i think.

Edit: Jamnagar trials were in Oct 2009. Aroor says it's somewhere in North-Western sector.

vic · Post by **vic** » 08 Jan 2011 13:04

Kanson wrote: We locked our real heroes in libraries and in places not reachable to ordinary men. ......... On the engine, as Ramana mentioned, we selected GE engine in parallel to the Kaveri development, well knowing that it is the Achilles' heel from the previous experience. Let see what we are upto and let us not rush to any conclusion on Kaveri.

Re Kansan

You have lot of information about the working of DRDO and we give due regard to the same. Similarly if you would be willing to consider it, I would say that DRDO media interaction is astounding poor and media would go out of its way to high light any positive news about DRDO.

Let me give an example that it is “official policy” of Times Group (the biggest and richest media group” to highlight and give “positive news”. What DRDO has done to cultivate their reporters??

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Jan 2011 13:16

Waiting to see the LCA formation fly past on 26th

manish.rastogi · Post by **manish.rastogi** » 08 Jan 2011 14:02

rakeshkumar wrote:eagerly waiting for jan 10th , that too on my birthday , it can't get better than this ........

Mine too......can't get a better birthday gift!!!!

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 08 Jan 2011 14:36

small request:
Guys, my company has a media session on Monday, and we are demonstrating a Demo which involves showing a video transfer.
I was hoping to see if I could use an LCA video during this Demo

... the timing is great, our Demo and the LCA IOC on the same date.
Do we have anything "no copyrighted" stuff (or that which we can use with due permissions) which shows the LCA in great light ?

.
Wouldn't want to miss this opportunity.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jan 2011 14:54

use this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRf4Xr_G6Lk
made by ADA for publicity purposes so no problem with copyright.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2011 15:08

akimalik wrote:small request:
Guys, my company has a media session on Monday, and we are demonstrating a Demo which involves showing a video transfer.
I was hoping to see if I could use an LCA video during this Demo ... the timing is great, our Demo and the LCA IOC on the same date.
Do we have anything "no copyrighted" stuff (or that which we can use with due permissions) which shows the LCA in great light ? .
Wouldn't want to miss this opportunity.

The following video has been shot and composed entirely by me. Feel free to use it. You should be able to download a high quality version using Firefox unplug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vttav5DIfjA

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 08 Jan 2011 15:13

Rahul M wrote:use this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRf4Xr_G6Lk
made by ADA for publicity purposes so no problem with copyright.

Hi Rahul, thanks so much for the link.
However, I cannot use it since I need to stream the video from a standalone linux box.
Just to give you a better idea of what sort of video we can use...
- Video Size: CIFx1 or CIFx2,
- Streaming rate: 1-2Mbps,
- Video encoding: preferrably MPEG-1 encoded.

Is there anything fitting this that I could perhaps find?
Thanks already

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 08 Jan 2011 15:38

shiv wrote:
akimalik wrote:small request:
Guys, my company has a media session on Monday, and we are demonstrating a Demo which involves showing a video transfer.
I was hoping to see if I could use an LCA video during this Demo ... the timing is great, our Demo and the LCA IOC on the same date.
Do we have anything "no copyrighted" stuff (or that which we can use with due permissions) which shows the LCA in great light ? .
Wouldn't want to miss this opportunity.
The following video has been shot and composed entirely by me. Feel free to use it. You should be able to download a high quality version using Firefox unplug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vttav5DIfjA

Thanks a lot Shiv Sir, I will try to use this particular video,
But could you also suggest some backups, (just in case our Demo is not robust enough

).

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 08 Jan 2011 15:45

Sriman wrote:
Singha wrote:was that bomb drop pic on some range near Tezpur? the riverine nature of the ground indicates it cannot be pokhran.
I think it's somewhere near Jamnagar. That's where they did the trials i think.

Edit: Jamnagar trials were in Oct 2009. Aroor says it's somewhere in North-Western sector.

LCA dropped its first bombs (50lbs practice bombs) somewhere in the South-East sector IIRC Jan-Feb2009 (before AI09).

Soon after AI09 it dropped its first lethal bombs (1000lbs) in March-April2009 operating from Jamnagar (the pictures were part of an official DRDO publication too)..

The Oct2009 trials were second round of trials at Jamnagar..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2011 16:57

The following four videos are 100% mine with no copyright issues. Only 1 is LCA. Two are ALH and one is Su-30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADdxH7oChXA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gDN9qapMz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbbXooobp7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lhBGOFOtK4

If you are using Linux, download WinFF and convert to MPEG 1 as needed.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 08 Jan 2011 18:29

Sid wrote:So while we are on discussion on drop-tanks, there is one point which is bugging me for a long time.

Do we need to have different drop-tank designs for super-sonic and sub-sonic flights?

Drop tanks of LCA look more like what we have on Hawk AJT, blunt design (well they look almost same to me). Where as other fighters in IAF inventory have more slender shaped drop-tanks.

X-Posting from KeyPub on this subject -

Well France has 3 types of drop tanks for the mirage 2000 :
RPL-541/542 : 2000L subsonic
RPL-501/502 : 1700L subsonic (?)
RPL-522 : 1300L supersonic

And 2 types for the rafale :

RPL-751 : 2000L subsonic (but up to mach 1.6 when empty)
RPL-711 : 1250L supersonic

I discussed this with a drop-tank manufacturer, a few AERO INDIA's ago. He said that drop tanks are designed for each specific aircraft and cannot be interchanged in any arbiratory way. That is one cannot take a say 1500 l drop tank for MiG 21 and put it on a SU 30.

This is interesting and informative to know that there are different drop tanks for different speed ranges, for the same aircraft.

Thanks for information

Kersi

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 08 Jan 2011 18:47

vic wrote:
Kanson wrote: We locked our real heroes in libraries and in places not reachable to ordinary men. ......... On the engine, as Ramana mentioned, we selected GE engine in parallel to the Kaveri development, well knowing that it is the Achilles' heel from the previous experience. Let see what we are upto and let us not rush to any conclusion on Kaveri.
Re Kansan

You have lot of information about the working of DRDO and we give due regard to the same. Similarly if you would be willing to consider it, I would say that DRDO media interaction is astounding poor and media would go out of its way to high light any positive news about DRDO.

Let me give an example that it is “official policy” of Times Group (the biggest and richest media group” to highlight and give “positive news”. What DRDO has done to cultivate their reporters??

Dear vic, Yes, it is poor. Just like i dont know how their PR dept is better when people say it is better than earlier times, i dont know how astoundingly poor it is. It is just like any other 'sarkari' dept. You dont need to know about workings of drdo to find this; all of you need is a phone number of their PR cell to get know all by yourself. You can get the contact number from ADA website if like to have first hand experience.

My lament is there is no systematic strategy to promote the culture of recognizing our heroes in every field in a far reaching manner.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Jan 2011 22:42

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Jan 2011 23:59

lovely ! asymmetric loads once again and no problem for the Tejas' FCS.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 09 Jan 2011 00:41

A simple minded question, can the Naval Tejas's wings be folded at the wing root when they are positioned inside the hanger of a carrier

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Jan 2011 01:09

vasu_ray wrote:A simple minded question, can the Naval Tejas's wings be folded at the wing root when they are positioned inside the hanger of a carrier

No. no fighter has its wings folded at its wing root. Will reduce stiffness and strength very very considerably and will have a very bad effect on how many G's the wing can pull without failing. Besides, the N-LCA's wing span is not so much as to be worried about it not having foldable wings.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2011 01:39

Have the hangar bays decked (adjustable raise platforms) such that the wings can over lap each other to some extent perhaps? (may be to save some 30% space!)

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 09 Jan 2011 02:23

SaiK wrote:Have the hangar bays decked (adjustable raise platforms) such that the wings can over lap each other to some extent perhaps? (may be to save some 30% space!)

Excellent idea exactly what I was thinking

. But instead have adjustable suspension.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 09 Jan 2011 02:37

BRF diggajs in blore please try to capture the flying/formation display in video from every possible angle. I am pretty sure the flight display will be anything but tame. It is an interesting day ahead. Shiv garu can possibly carry his camera to his golf course on monday

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2011 02:43

sid pro quo