Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

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abhinavjo
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by abhinavjo »

^^I believe I can guess question no 3 from the top
What is this fold(refer image)

IMHO this cold be one of the doors through which the mechanism of fuselage comes out, or maybe considering the fact that the 2 endowments above it are for the wheels. This particular version is pretty different than the earlier versions which show a very different assembly and a much more smoother exterior.
This does not look like a Block A maybe a C/D Block 52?????
Image

Will surely check this on the game 'Wings over Europe' and see if any designer has left a clue there.
Indranil
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Indranil »

negi wrote:Indranil, Bandar can be bashed on genuine points, regarding it's better finish oh yes better than the F-7s may be Mirage-IIIs too so what gives ?
Negi sahab, nothing gives in or give away.

I have never championed for the JF-17 as an awesome plane. It has lots of demerits. But I am just being objective.

I had seen somebody comparing LCA's finish to JF-17's finish on an unmentionable forum.
Image
Image

I smiled at the ignorance there. They were matching the finishing of JF-17s with the place where LCA's cockpit door was hinged! The door wasn't completely shut yet. And yes if you look at the cockpit from the front, in most cases you will see just rim which would look very clean. If you see it from the pilots side, there are more things which are housed along the rim. But then I wouldn't comment there as I don't care. I have said before, their ignorance is our bliss.

What they should have really compared with are pictures like this
Image
Image

I don't shiver when some novice writes something somewhere about our products. Similarly I don't dish my opponents machine for an incorrect assessment.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by negi »

indranilroy wrote: I don't shiver when some novice writes something somewhere about our products. Similarly I don't dish my opponents machine for an incorrect assessment.

Btw can you point to an incorrect assessment made by me ? :)

Also this is what you said earlier
also I remember reading good things about the finish of the JF-17 from the Farnborough appearance.
I merely qualified 'good' in the above post by saying good when compared to F-7 and Mirage-IIIs.

Btw fwiw the Tejas pic above has higher resolution than the Bandar's pic on top.
Indranil
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Indranil »

Oh ho ho Negi Saab!!!!

I didn't mean to attribute any comment to anybody. I did not point out any person or post. I just expressed what I disagreed with whatever little I know.

So please don't read my post as a reply/question/comment etc. to yours.

My points were simple.

1. Oil Canning and build quality are not related. Oil canning is not a sign of shoddy design work or craftmanship. In today's plane building it is generally not an overlooked feature, it is rather an accounted feature. I would like to believe that the designers of the JF-17 are not novices and would know of such a common phenomenon.

2. Oil leaks near the engine may or may not be related to build quality as well. With the amount as what appears on the JF-17, I feel it is normal.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by shiv »

indranilroy wrote: I do not quite agree with the bashing of the bunder here.
...
May be that the Bunder doesn't have a good finish, but pointing out oil canning and oil leaks is not the best of critiques in my IMHO..
Why do you consider pointing it out as criticism? So what if there is an oil leak. It is a fact of life for Bundar, not a criticism no? Why take it to heart and get all worked up?

I would like to see the same robust defence being put up on BR when pictures of Tejas start appearing with oil leaks sooner or later. The reason why I am making a song and dance about Bundar is in anticipation of just such an eventuality. I am sure BRFites will be prepared when that happens. :D
Indranil
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Indranil »

Sorry if I came across as worked up earlier :). I typed my replies in a hurry today.
shiv wrote: I would like to see the same robust defence being put up on BR when pictures of Tejas start appearing with oil leaks sooner or later.
Shiv ji ... you can be rest-assured that my criticism of such posts would be much more acerbic than my views here.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by shiv »

negi wrote:
Btw fwiw the Tejas pic above has higher resolution than the Bandar's pic on top.
:D Don't worry. I will now enlarge a Bundar pic and point out some microscopic anomaly and blow it out of all proportion. It's only because Pakistani beggars cannot afford afford good cameras that we don't get hi res pics from Pakistan. The Bundar pic is from China of course.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Surya »

Doc you are needed in "Pak army list of killed' thread.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by shiv »

Surya wrote:Doc you are needed in "Pak army list of killed' thread.
I may find my name there if I carry on like this.. :D Anyhow - Jai Bajrang Bali - here is another photu

Image
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Lalmohan »

Al Hakimi
there is a good reason why the bandar's doors do not flush:
1. in pakistan there is no flush system, only lotas - so bandar does not need to flush
2. opening undercarriage is common format for aerial downhill skiing, bandar needs to be quick on the draw
3. unkil often says to paki jarnail "gear down, flaps out!" before interlocution sessions, bandar is prepared for quick deployment prior to giving unkil what he wants
4. screwdriver tech was deficient - and only managed partial tightening of doors before power in the power screwdriver ran out due to load shedding
5. according to crate of exoloding mango's - every PAF mard is busy eyeing musharraf of every other PAF mard, therefore PAF mard in charge of door tightening got distracted with TFTA pilot approaching bandar
(the last two have some basis in truth in terms of the real reason)
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Raghavendra »

Terrorist a 'martyr' on Pakistan Army website
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGclNz4EKA4


ISI man on Delhi ‘suicide op’ is martyr on Pak Army’s website
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/isi-m ... e/724425/0
An unusual entry appeared on the Pakistani Army website on Monday, claiming that an ISI agent who was on a “suicide attack” operation died in a New Delhi hospital on November 16, 2007.

The cryptic entry surfaced in the same ‘Shuhada’s (Martyrs’) Corner’ of the Pak Army website (pakistanarmy.gov.pk) which had revealed the list of Pakistan’s dead in the Kargil operation.

The entry, one of 15,181 entries containing details of killed Pakistani Army personnel, names the operative as Zulfiqar Ahmed. His ‘Army No.’ has been listed as 1726016, his rank as Naik, his ‘Arm/Service’ as ‘Engrs’, and his ‘Formation/Unit’ as ‘HQ 30 Corps/Dte Gen ISI’.

His operation has been listed as ‘Suicide Attack’, and his ‘Date of Shahadat’ as ‘16 November 2007’. According to the entry, which also has a picture, the operative died of kidney failure and acute respiratory infection at Ganga Ram Hospital in New Delhi.

There was no suicide attack in Delhi or in nearby areas on or around November 16, 2007. It is possible, however, that the agent ISI man on Delhi ‘suicide op’ is martyr on Pak Army’s website was arrested or captured and brought to the hospital for treatment. The last major terror attack in India before November 16, 2007 were the Lumbini Park and Gokul Chat bombings in Hyderabad on August 25, in which 42 people were killed.

It seems hard to believe that the Pakistani Army would admit to sending suicide attackers to India. But if the entry is genuine, it would be the first official confirmation that the ISI sends its agents to operate inside India.

Ahmed’s native place has been listed as Bhimber in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK), incidentally an area that is notorious as an infiltration point used by terrorists to enter India.

The martyr’s section lists 25 ISI operatives, with varying causes of death. Besides Zulfiqar Ahmed, there is one more record of an ISI agent being killed in India — one Lance Naik Abdul Ghani who died during ‘FD Duty in India’ in May 1973.

A number of Pakistani soldiers have been listed as having been killed in suicide attacks. An unusual entry is that of a soldier called Wajid Ali, who died in a road accident in June 2008, but has been listed under the operation ‘Suicide Attack’.

As The Indian Express reported on November 17, Pakistan officially acknowledged for the first time that its regular soldiers participated in the Kargil War by making their names public. Names of hundreds of soldiers — a majority of them from the Northern Light Infantry (NLI) — were put up in the Shuhada’s Corner of the website.

Delhi hospital confirms ISI agent’s death, details vanish from Pak site
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Delhi ... ite/724958
A day after The Indian Express reported on the entry on the Pakistan Army website about the “martyrdom” in Delhi of an ISI agent on a “Suicide Attack” operation, top sources in the capital’s Sir Ganga Ram Hospital confirmed that the death did indeed occur.

The ISI operative, Naik Zulfiqar Ahmed of the HQ 30 Corps, was referred to the hospital by the Pakistan High Commission, which also paid his medical bills, the sources said.

He was admitted in the hospital’s nephrology department on November 1, 2007, and died “after fifteen days, most probably from kidney-related problems”, a source said. No foul play was suspected, he added.

According to information put up on the Pakistan Army website’s Shuhada’s (Martyrs’) Corner, Ahmed, from Bhimber in PoK, died on November 16, 2007 at “Ganga Ram Hosp N/Delhi”. The “Cause of Shahadat” was “Neptrrotic Syndrome/ARI” (a reference to nephrotic syndrome and acute respiratory infection).

Sir Ganga Ram Hospital is empanelled with the Pakistan High Commission, and “Zulfiqar came as one of the beneficiaries,” said a hospital source. It is not clear who claimed the body, or whether last rites were performed in India.

When contacted by The Indian Express, Shah Zaman Khan, Minister (Press) at the Pakistan High Commission, said they were ascertaining all facts. “I am to get information on the issue,” Khan said.


Pakistan Army site goes offline, comes back without ISI man’s details
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pak-a ... ls/724955/
The official website of the Pakistan Army (pakistanarmy.gov.pk) remained offline for most of Tuesday, with a one-line announcement blaming “technical reasons” across the blank white screen.

When it came back online in the evening, the site was slow, and the record of Zulfiqar Ahmed was missing from the database of ‘martyrs’.

Also missing from the database at the Shuhada’s Corner were the names and ‘martyrdom’ details of all soldiers whose unit had been earlier listed as ‘ISI’.

While researching the story on Ahmed on Monday evening, The Indian Express had found 25 ISI men in the database of dead soldiers.

Till late Tuesday evening, there had been no official reaction from Pakistan.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Sid »

^^ Hardly surprising. But what is surprising is that we are asking for confirmation from Embassy. Of course they will say no, they have been lying all their life.

Indian diplomats should make copies of this Excel sheet and paste it all around UN and circulate to other Embassy.

Its high time TSP gets its designated name, i.e. TSP.. officially.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by suryag »

It lists the Arm/service of this person as "engrs" which means he was more of a technician trade in the Army??
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by rohitvats »

^^^He was from Corps of Engineers in Pakistan Army. Which means he could be an expert in handling explosives.
suryag
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by suryag »

^^^ thats what i was hinting at, he was a technician trade guy most likely trained in explosives or communications. Hope we have one more reason to avoid talking to deaf people. Is it possible that this guy was interrogated by our three letter agencies ?
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Austin »

Update on JF-17 ( via AW&ST )

Packing a Punch pg 31
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Pakistan successfully test fires Hatf-V missile: ISPR

http://www.dawn.com/2010/12/21/pakistan ... -ispr.html
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Craig Alpert »

Pak 'Concerned' Over Indo-Russia Defence, N-Deals
Pakistan today expressed concern at nuclear and defence agreements signed by India and Russia, saying the accords will create instability in the region.

Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit described the agreements as "dangerous" for the region and said they would lead to a regional imbalance.

"Pakistan is not oblivious of its defence," Basit told the media when he was asked about Islamabad's response to the pacts.
........
:((
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by shiv »

Bird hits and the PAF

I think this is a good video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fightingfal ... ftPLZSdGvw
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Singha »

are there any details of the JF17 radar and photos/videos/reports of the JF17 firing wvr and bvr aams ?

I have seen brief footage of PAF film where jf17 dropped bombs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCnZKAw3 ... re=related
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Pratik_S »

shiv wrote:Bird hits and the PAF
Well, atleast the PAF officials didn't claim the birds were trained by RAW to get in the way of their fighters and the population explosion was caused by defective condoms distributed again by RAW.

There should be IAF bases facing similar problem along with Mumbai airport. Also the new naval helo base in Mumbai has population less than a feet away from compound wall.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by uddu »

Singha wrote:are there any details of the JF17 radar and photos/videos/reports of the JF17 firing wvr and bvr aams ?
Singha, you got short memory. You only reported about the same. :D
FC-1 firing the Pili-5. Seems not yet BVR capable.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Singha »

I wonder why PL-5 when a better missile PL-9 (lighter and multi spectral infrared) is available...maybe cost. PL-5 is definitely a outdated missile looking at the specs.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Craig Alpert »

from the "GRANDE STRATEGY" comes a mouthpiece which states what Pakistan must do to entail it's survival against IAF.
The short solution lies with arming itself with UCAVS!! CLICK HERE for a detailed analysis
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Gaur »

^^
I think you must have posted it in this thread by mistake. This surely belongs to the Humour section. :wink:

From their about section:
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

GrandeStrategy Institute is a Muslim think tank providing strategy and analysis from an Islamic perspective. We focus on finding innovative approaches to the emerging challenges of the Islamic world.
While it is an amusing read in its own way, I wonder if providing them with internet traffic by posting their link is a good idea?
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by neerajb »

The linked article brings forth a new point regarding UCAVs cost effectiveness.
Another aspect is the low maintenance and operational costs due to not having a requirement to constantly fly aircraft. This also means that many important systems do not need to be as reliable or have high MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure). After all, if the UCAV is not endangering a pilot’s life, does not fly frequently and is cheap to manufacture, they need not be as durable. UCAVs need only be flown during wartime or during high tension periods.
With UCAVs, It is not required to constantly train pilots and thus huge savings in training cost. At the same time the UCAV will last much longer owing to the actual usage of the aircraft in war time and minimal usage during peace time. All these can lead to a cheap aircraft with enhanced performance due to the lowering of the specs necessary for longer life airsing from the manned heavy usage of platforms.

Cheers....
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by shiv »

neerajb wrote: With UCAVs, It is not required to constantly train pilots and thus huge savings in training cost. At the same time the UCAV will last much longer owing to the actual usage of the aircraft in war time and minimal usage during peace time. All these can lead to a cheap aircraft with enhanced performance due to the lowering of the specs necessary for longer life airsing from the manned heavy usage of platforms.

Cheers....
Missiles are even cheaper. You don't even have to bring them back.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Pratyush »

Shiv,

A soosie donkey (Read Paki) is the cheapest of the lot.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Craig Alpert »

arun
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by arun »

X Posted.
The Express Tribune article by Rauf Klasra which broke the story of that the plot to assassinate former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto was hatched in a Brigadiers house:

BB assassination probe: ‘Murder plot hatched at brigadier’s home’

The swift denial of the Interior Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Rehman Malik that the plot was planned in a Brigadiers house

Malik denies report of BB murder plot at brigadier’s home
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by ShauryaT »

Pakistan's "Second" Nuclear Arsenal
It seems that Pakistan is underwriting Saudi Arabia’s nuclear potential and that some kind of understanding/agreement exists between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on the issue. Pakistan is likely to keep a stockpile of nuclear weapons for Saudi Arabia, paid for by the latter. This will be used as a deterrent against any Iranian or third party threat to the Saudis.

Saudi Arabia is replacing CSS-2 with the CSS-5 missile which could be nuclear tipped. Iran’s nuclear programme hence raises the demand in Pakistan for stockpile material to cater to the defence requirements of the Saudis. With respect to nuclear deterrence, Saudi Arabia has three options: -
• Seek a US nuclear umbrella
• Develop indigenous nuclear capability
• Use Pakistan’s nuclear weapons as proxy.

Saudi Arabia will be most comfortable with the last of these propositions. There is also a geopolitical dimension in supplying nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia. As neither Saudi Arabia nor Pakistan is comfortable with Iran’s growing quest for nuclear capability, this could in turn fuel a nuclear arms race in the region with the Saudis pitching in with Pakistan to deter the Iranians thus impacting on stability in the Middle East.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Craig Alpert »

US to Provide More Military Aid to Pakistan: Report
Talk about "true grit"
"Biden will challenge the Pakistanis to articulate their long term strategy for the region and indicate exactly what assistance is needed for them to move against Taliban sanctuaries in areas bordering Afghanistan," the Post said.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by SSridhar »

Craig Alpert wrote:US to Provide More Military Aid to Pakistan: Report
Talk about "true grit"
"Biden will challenge the Pakistanis to articulate their long term strategy for the region and indicate exactly what assistance is needed for them to move against Taliban sanctuaries in areas bordering Afghanistan," the Post said.
What 'region' are the Americans talking about ? The more Pakistan frays at the edges (and even at the core), the more the Americans are throwing arms at PA.
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Craig Alpert »

On the face it does seem like penny wise and pound foolish...but there's a lot more happening "behind the scenes" than we may never know, unless wiki-leaks plans on making some more public. Mistrust between US & Pakistan barring the "diplomatic" levels exist as wide as craters and it here where the Pakis are trying to extract every last bit before the US cleans up & leaves Afghan wartorn by 2012/3...
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by Craig Alpert »

Anyways here some more...

Perrys for Pakistan: USS McInerney & the Alamgir Class
Jan 8/10: USN Capt. Edward Lundquist (Ret.) describes the overhaul process for Pakistan’s Alamgir, which has to be conducted in the USA as part of the deal. VSE Corporation is the prime contractor, with work performed at BAE Systems Southeast Division (formerly Atlantic Marine Florida) in Jacksonville, FL, and US Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) in Washington, DC as the executing agency.

Most of the work was mechanical. All 4 diesels were removed and overhauled, along with air conditioning units and refrigeration. Fuel oil tanks and voids were cleaned, inspected, repaired and painted, all shafting was removed and renovated, and the controllable pitch propeller system was overhauled. Likewise, sea valves were removed and either repaired or replaced, and almost every pump was opened and inspected, resulting in an 80% overhaul rate there. Ventilators and fans went through a similar process, with a 50% overhaul rate. Breakers, the NR3 switchboard, the windlass and boat davit all got inspections and overhauls. Completely new equipment includes a new navigation suite and bridge, the composite dome over the fully overhauled SQS-56 sonar, and a VIP cabin.

Meanwhile, VSE’s Ship Transfer Assistance Team (STAT) provides training that’s capped by a light off assessment, and at sea exercises modeled after those employed by the US Navy’s Afloat Training Group. The crew of PNS Alamgir moved aboard in December 2010, and are being qualified in firefighting and damage control, PMS and 3-M, and trained to U.S. Navy PQS standards. Sea trials are expected in mid-late January 2011, with a goal of sailing PNS Alamgir away on Feb 11/10.
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Great Paki Air Phorce Pielet flying a Chinese F-7

Post by Tushar Sharm »

Chinese F-7 in action over Parkistan

[youtube]hbxwElXgex8&feature=related[/youtube]
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by wig »

the high water mark of pakistan's military doctrine - of striking terror in the enemy's heart - seems to involve kidnapping an ex-serviceman on a pilgrimage, and then troturing him. the daily excelsior published from jammu carries one such harrowing tale
Detained in Pak for 9 months, ex jawan glad to be back

R S Pura, Jan 12: Subjected to torture in Pakistan for nine months after he landed in the country to pay obeisance at Sikh shrines, former Army jawan Amar Singh said coming back home here is like a second birth.

Singh along with a group of 39 Sikhs was returning from a pilgrimage in Pakistan on April 1, 2010, when some men in plainclothes from ISI whisked him away to an undisclosed destination.

"As I was sitting in the train on my way back to India, some one called me and I came down. Some more men came and took me to a room near the railway station and grilled me. The train left for India. I was blind folded and taken to some underground place", Singh said.

"They are seeking details from me about defence places? I was subjected to third degree torture?", he said, adding, "I told them I have come to Pakistan only for pilgrimage to Nankana Sahib and was an ex-serviceman".

"As I was fed of the months-long torture, I posed as a mentally ill person. They took me to a doctor and checked me but I continued to pose as mad".

He was released by Pakistani authorities near the Wagah border on January 4.

"I am re-born. It is my second life. I never thought I will be again with my family here", an emotionally charged Singh said, adding, "I will never visit Pakistan again not even for a pilgrimage".

His family back home had lodged a missing report and launched a campaign to trace him writing to the Prime Minister, the Human Rights Commission, the International Red Cross and even the Pakistani High Commission seeking its intervention.

His homecoming was celebrated not only by his wife Kuldeep Kour and children Navjot Singh, Jagjeet Singh and Lojot Singh, but also the entire hamlet in R S Pura border belt.
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
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Re: Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Post by P Chitkara »

What else do you expect from a country where even the siblings (BB - Murtaza Bhutto) or mentors (zia - ZAB) are not spared. Lack of any regard for principles, morals etc is the reason of their entire society being in deep sh!!t right now.
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