Don't be so ignorant. Read your Sun Tzu, I'm sure there's a deep significance in the 2001. That's to remind us that...Marten wrote:SDREs will also notice the significance of the 2001 painted on the side of this runway beauty.
). Now of course the West needs to brown its pants at Panda's super dooper weapon.To be fair China produces almost half of their oil and almost all their natural gas consumption. I suppose it would be enough to run a war economy . It kind of stupid to think that they come down groveling if you cut of their oil/gas imports.shiv wrote:Except oil.Manu wrote: In a time of war, they do not have to rely on the benevolence of foreign suppliers.
Marten,Marten wrote:Not sure if you missed the fact that this particular runway test was scheduled a week ahead of the LCA IOC, and the number is closely linked to the LCA KH 2001 that flew on Jan 4 2001.
pandyan wrote:Totally agree...In fact, SouthWest air host once mentioned that SW keeps the OPEX low by flying the plane half the distance and high speed taxiing the other half. Since the passengers are sitting on plane, it is basically flying and nobody complains...infact everyone is happy.DavidD wrote: High speed taxiing and lifting the nose is basically flying already
Mahindra Tractor engine would come in handy as well...fuel efficient, diesel, plenty of torque-should be more than enough to power the plane for high speed taxiing
To be fair China produces almost half of their oil and almost all their natural gas consumption. I suppose it would be enough to run a war economy . It kind of stupid to think that they come down groveling if you cut of their oil/gas imports.[/quote]shiv wrote:Except oil.Manu wrote: In a time of war, they do not have to rely on the benevolence of foreign suppliers.
abhik wrote: To be fair China produces almost half of their oil and almost all their natural gas consumption. I suppose it would be enough to run a war economy . It kind of stupid to think that they come down groveling if you cut of their oil/gas imports.
SRINAGAR: Former Jammu & Kashmir chief minister Farooq Abdullah has threatened China of revenge in Leh during summer amid reports of "incursions" into Indian territory in J&K's Ladakh region. Abdullah said China had "betrayed the concept of friendship".
Farooq Abdullah told reporters in Jammu on Sunday that India will show its strength during summer as there is extreme cold this time in Leh.
"China has betrayed the concept of friendship despite the fact that the Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao had promised friendship during his visit to India," Abdullah said on the sidelines of a function in Jammu on Sunday night.
"Those hopes have been belied by the incursion of Chinese troops into the border area of Leh," the minister said, replying to a question on reports of incursion by Chinese troops and halting of work at Demchok, close to the Line of Actual Control (LAC), in October last year.
......
I guess what we can conclude is that the engine works and the chute works
This is such shameless self promotion by the Chinese it is just ludicrous! In a country where people can't even live or travel where they please or even log on to news sites like BBC and CNN, these "heros" somehow happen to be exactly at the right place at the right time to video the taxi trials. Also, what kind of military "project" is tested in a military airfield that is located in the middle of a city ?shiv wrote:Just found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y67wWQ_B9PI
This one seems to be the prototype without the yellow patch on the right side. Its "nozzles" do look silvery.shiv wrote:Just found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y67wWQ_B9PI
indranilroy wrote:However notice the nozzles carefully between 0:13 and 0:20. I think I see two layers. The inside layer seems to change in diameter(expand). The outer (shinier) layer stays constant. Is the silver nozzle then just a layer.shiv wrote:Just found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y67wWQ_B9PI
You definitely got some pair of eyes, buddy.. watched the video 4-5 times.. but my SDRE eyes cannot observe what u seem to be suggesting.. To release the flatulence ofcourse..I would love to know what it is for.
It's definitely two layers, like the WS-10, you can see it pretty clearly in some of the pictures as well. Both layers can contract a lot, as we've seen in videos and pictures before, which is a bit unlike the WS-10 since the WS-10 doesn't contract very much. Of course, that could just be differences in viewing angles. I don't know if the inner layer can contract independently though, and I can't really see that in the video.indranilroy wrote:This one seems to be the prototype without the yellow patch on the right side. Its "nozzles" do look silvery.shiv wrote:Just found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y67wWQ_B9PI
However notice the nozzles carefully between 0:13 and 0:20. I think I see two layers. The inside layer seems to change in diameter(expand). The outer (shinier) layer stays constant. Is the silver nozzle then just a layer.
Please notice that I am not saying it is cosmetic. I would love to know what it is for. An obvious guess is it has got something to do with IR signature.
I don't think the effect is that dramatic, but I see what you mean. Who knows, maybe it does turn out to be a problem and they'll redesign the aft fuselage after supersonic test flights. Or maybe, like you said, the plane simply wasn't designed to be a high mach plane.indranilroy wrote:Rsharma ji, the F-22 nozzles are obviously very different from the axis symmetric nozzles of all other planes. The Chinese and indeed the Russians havn't mastered it yet.
Between David, the above pic is a good example of what I was speaking before about how the F-22 follows the Sears Haack body. The whole body comes to a taper. Compare the same with the J-20 back.
Please note that the entry level designer in the Chinese deign bureau would have studied this in his entry-level aero classes. All I am saying is that the J-20 doesn't look prima-facie to be designed to be a 2.4-2.5 M plane like the T-50/F-22. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
It seems to me that this video is an example of Chinese official agencies posting a video in the guise of general public. The video has been carefully edited. In fact the cameraman has done the sort of counter-intuitive thing that only an experienced camera person would do - he has zoomed out when the plane jumps forward and moves off the the left. And the video has been edited to depict the exact point at which it jumps forward. Doing that requires a degree of video editing skills.
Oh you'd be surprised at Chinese people's expertise in photography(filmography these days too since most cameras can record now), I don't think I've seen a Chinese guy without some gigantic SLR camerashiv wrote:
It seems to me that this video is an example of Chinese official agencies posting a video in the guise of general public. The video has been carefully edited. In fact the cameraman has done the sort of counter-intuitive thing that only an experienced camera person would do - he has zoomed out when the plane jumps forward and moves off the the left.
These leaks are obviously controlled though, the CCP clearly wants people to know and see this plane. Today's weather is better, maybe we'll finally see it fly 
I usually don't respond to your drivel, but this is a good chance to expose your lack of knowledge. So please, could you tell me what can you learn from a minimal maneuver, low-altitude flight that's typical of a first flight that you can't learn form high speed taxiing, other than the landing?Marten wrote:Don't you know that is all that it takes... this plane is actually flying! You think it is on the ground, but it really is flying! Don't take my word for it, aviation and taxiing expert DavidD certified it a few hours ago.PratikDas wrote:I guess what we can conclude is that the engine works and the chute works
That the plane can really fly and not drop like a stone after gaining a little altitude? There is plenty of things that can go wrong in flight. Whether the FCS works as expected and keeps the plane flying ,whether all control surfaces behaves as expected and the plane doesn't show abnormal behavior etc. There are hundreds of things that can be verified only in flight.DavidD wrote:I usually don't respond to your drivel, but this is a good chance to expose your lack of knowledge. So please, could you tell me what can you learn from a minimal maneuver, low-altitude flight that's typical of a first flight that you can't learn form high speed taxiing, other than the landing?Marten wrote:Don't you know that is all that it takes... this plane is actually flying! You think it is on the ground, but it really is flying! Don't take my word for it, aviation and taxiing expert DavidD certified it a few hours ago.
Sorry, but that's not how it works. I won't deny that there are many things to test during actual flight, but the vast majority of major problems can be detected in high speed taxiing these days. Why don't you be a bit more specific with your assertions. How would the plane drop like a stone after gaining a little altitude, and why it can't be detected during high speed taxiing? By lifting the plane's nose up during high speed taxiing, most of the data required to take flight can already be affirmed.putnanja wrote:That the plane can really fly and not drop like a stone after gaining a little altitude? There is plenty of things that can go wrong in flight. Whether the FCS works as expected and keeps the plane flying ,whether all control surfaces behaves as expected and the plane doesn't show abnormal behavior etc. There are hundreds of things that can be verified only in flight.DavidD wrote:
I usually don't respond to your drivel, but this is a good chance to expose your lack of knowledge. So please, could you tell me what can you learn from a minimal maneuver, low-altitude flight that's typical of a first flight that you can't learn form high speed taxiing, other than the landing?
To expect the high speed taxi trials to equal to be equal to first flight is like saying that a 100m sprint is equivalent to doing a long jump just because one runs before jumping!!
).What follows from this statement is the question (that I asked in different words earlier):indranilroy wrote: I think what David is trying to say is that during high speed taxi trials there is adequate health monitoring to mitigate as many risks as possible in the first flight.
Thanks, that's what I was trying to sayindranilroy wrote:Even with positive AoA. Generally they test the basic maneuvers like altitude gain (level-positive AoA-level), altitude loss(level-negative AoA-level), turn left (level-left bank-level), turn right (level-right bank-level) etc.
Flying is obviously a 3D thing, whereas taxi trials are is 2D.
I think what David is trying to say is that during high speed taxi trials there is adequate health monitoring to mitigate as many risks as possible in the first flight.
But obviously the first flight is THE FIRST FLIGHT. It is a leap of faith. The size of the leap has become smaller these days. That's all.
Taxiing is not the same as flying, but these days if a plane can successfully conduct high speed taxiing, then it's very close to first flight.The weather.shiv wrote:What follows from this statement is the question (that I asked in different words earlier):indranilroy wrote: I think what David is trying to say is that during high speed taxi trials there is adequate health monitoring to mitigate as many risks as possible in the first flight.
Once a plane has conducted 4 or 5 high speed ground runs, what factors would be preventing them from allowing a formal take off and flight - given that a high speed run proves so many systems?
Clearly there are either a lot of systems to be proven requiring a lot more high speed runs, or the tests are not showing complete health in all the systems and so the flight is being held back. Given that a first flight was "imminent" I would have thought that all the information required from high speed taxi trials would already have been obtained. So what is holding back the flight? I am not suggesting that there is a serious, unsolvable problem. All I am saying is that there must be some issue.
The other possibility is that Chingos went apeshit after seeing the high speed runs and began imagining that a flight would occur while the Chinese working on the plane are just going about their business and not promising any dates until they are ready.
