Telangana Monitor

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Locked
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

ShyamSP wrote:One thing SKC did is to kick doubtful in non-T areas out. No one can talk them out in non-T in light of SKC report. It becomes a Dharmic fight for non-T to be in the side of truth. People will be less accommodative than before for Hyderabad and water share.
This is the most important point from a perspective where SKC has given too much of an ammunition for non-T folks.

I wrote here what SKC completely missed tht would have helped the T- cause
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1007717.

There is absolutely no stats regarding private sectors and wealth manufacturing aspects. This is a flaw post liberalization and the entire report just putting the goverment spending based dev stats.
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

nvishal wrote:@RamaY
Enough. I don't think that anything can change you outlook on the current situation in AP. Im sure you had an "opinion" on this situation when this thing started and i think it remained unchanged throughout. Dimmified populaton, maoist hands, tambi interference, Congress chanakyaisms, KCR trickeries, conspiracy suicide(what?) OMG. Seriously, enough!!
nvishal, if you read my previous posts, you will know my approach to this problem.

I was asking you what is the basis for your trashing of
- SKC report
- TRS loss
- Subdued agitation when TRS and INC-T were checked.

I understand the demand for separate T-state it has been there for 60 years. What triggered current avalanche? It can't be economic conditions alone as SKC report proves.

If we want to dismiss every report, idea and logic as "opinion and CTs" then what remains? Your word against mine?

"What is really going on" is the political playing of people's emotions. Current T-moment is nothing but politicians offering an easy and visible enemy to one's issues. People will always have problems (even in developed nations) and they can easily be manipulated by offering a visible enemy (Remember USA's propaganda before iraq invasion?).

I rest my case...
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Muppalla wrote: I wrote here what SKC completely missed tht would have helped the T- cause
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1007717.
Muppala garu,

That is valid view but I have few questions -

* culture of entrepreneurship. This need not be dependent upon government. If we are talking about Govt help on entrepreneurship then how far it can be a convincing cause for separate statehood?

* Development of towns and villages. Then separate political council with budgetary authority. Even here, i did not understand what you meant by "developing at one's own pace". Isn't it contradictory to all the reasons given for separate-T demand?
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Virupaksha »

Mupalla garu,

Are such stats feasible? For example, the marwadi/gujarati community has a strong hold over whole sale business almost everywhere including hyderabad. Now should those stats be counted in Telangana/AP or in gujarat/rajasthan? Should ramoji film city be considered part of telangana, because Ramoji rao has shifted lock, stock and barrel to hyderabad. Should the film industry be considered telangana?

Where would you categorise Mahendra Satyam, TCS, microsoft as? and where does it end?

My parents and family have moved to hyderabad, so much that my combined life in coastal andhra is less than 15 days including all the visits for temples. Would my efforts be part of Telangana or coastal andhra?

How many generations ago would he had to move to an area before he is considered part of the area for these kind of statistics.
ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2564
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ShyamSP »

Muppalla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:One thing SKC did is to kick doubtful in non-T areas out. No one can talk them out in non-T in light of SKC report. It becomes a Dharmic fight for non-T to be in the side of truth. People will be less accommodative than before for Hyderabad and water share.
This is the most important point from a perspective where SKC has given too much of an ammunition for non-T folks.

I wrote here what SKC completely missed tht would have helped the T- cause
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1007717.

There is absolutely no stats regarding private sectors and wealth manufacturing aspects. This is a flaw post liberalization and the entire report just putting the goverment spending based dev stats.
That is useless exercise. How individuals can invest and prosper is none of business of government with respect to state division. We can only judge objectively that government money is equitably distributed and benefited. In that aspect, poor in Telangana not getting benefits of development in Telangana is more relevant.

Also how government money got abused is relevant. In that sense how much corruption happened in government projects is relevant. Perhaps, digging it is useful. YSR and co got lion share. T-politicians are equally corrupt. Do you think Ponnala Lakshmaiah as Major irrigation minister didn't eat his share?
Are we going to divide state based on how T-politicians ate public money less than non-T politicians.

Take Lanco's Rajagopal. He made money in AP. He is also making money in non-AP (majority of share is in non-AP according to him). We know Lanco got some power projects in North East India (KCR is rumored to be invested in Lanco - talk about irony). Lanco also purchased Coal mines in Australia. Are we going to attribute all that wealth in the T vs non-T debate?
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by SwamyG »

Satya_anveshi: Wishing your family speedy recovery, and glad to note there has been no life-threatening injuries. {OT: Driving on Indian roads is scary - especially the night trips and inter-city trips. But this used to be the case even 20-30 years ago.}
Last edited by SwamyG on 11 Jan 2011 01:58, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by SwamyG »

RamaY wrote:The data including economic, political, demographic vagairah should the basis for a separate T-state demand; not the fortunes of INC/BJP/TDP/TRS and so on.
You said it very well, there. Kudos!
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Satya-Anveshi garu, I am glad that everyone is safe. Wish your family a speedy recovery.

Unfortunately Indian Roads and Automobiles have improved multi-fold but public driving habits haven't developed at the same pace. People drive very fast (as the roads and automobiles permit it) but they do not respect the traffic rules, lane restrictions, etc.,

Shows that one can fix the infrastructure faster than the civic behavior.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Virupaksha »

SwamyG wrote:
RamaY wrote:The data including economic, political, demographic vagairah should the basis for a separate T-state demand; not the fortunes of INC/BJP/TDP/TRS and so on.
You said it very well, there. Kudos!
but we all know these and only these will be the basis :evil:
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

^ Ravi_Ku garu,

We don't need to worry. Heads we win, Tails they lose.

* If they follow truth, that is nationwide guidelines on state formation (2nd SRC) based on national interests, language, history/culture, economic progress, political structures, demographics etc., then we win.

* If they play pure political games, then they will lose as Game Theory is on our side. However we may gain in national interests even though we may lose at state level.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Virupaksha »

RamaY wrote: Ravi_Ku garu
naaku garu enduku sir?

Can you please explain how game theory is on our side? I had read through the ppt but didnt understand this point
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by SwamyG »

ravi_ku wrote: but we all know these and only these will be the basis :evil:
Your line confuses me, because of the "evil or very mad" icon. Can you clarify?
RamaY wrote: We don't need to worry. Heads we win, Tails they lose.
Can you clarify "we" and "they" in your statement?
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Virupaksha »

SwamyG wrote:
ravi_ku wrote: but we all know these and only these will be the basis :evil:
Your line confuses me, because of the "evil or very mad" icon. Can you clarify?
The data including economic, political, demographic vagairah will not be the basis for a separate T-state demand but only the fortunes of INC/BJP/TDP/TRS and so on will be the basis
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

ravi_ku wrote:
RamaY wrote: Ravi_Ku garu
naaku garu enduku sir?

Can you please explain how game theory is on our side? I had read through the ppt but didnt understand this point
The moment it becomes a political game, it brings all kinds players into the game. This includes
- INC (center) whose primary focus is to get to power in 2014 (30 > 12 MPs)
- Sharad Pawar
- DMK
- Mamata Banarji

and so on...

Even BJP can form separate T only when they get minimum majority on their own, IMO. Imagine a BJP proposal to form a T-state when INC loses majority of 12 Telangana MP seats.
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

SwamyG wrote: Can you clarify "we" and "they" in your statement?
We = people who want to use a logical, fact-based and nationalistic approach to states reorganization. And this cannot be applied only to Telangana region. Madhurai, Vidarbha, Northern K'taka, Gurkhaland, Bhimavaram (W.G Dist in AP) everything is a fair game.

They = Who trashes every logical and factual argument against Telangana demand. They even trash SKC report, which did extensive fact finding exercise involving many T-vadi inputs. All they want is Telangana state, even if it is illogical and NOT in the national interests.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

nvishal wrote:So, do i think telangana will form before 2014? Probably yes. At least, things are heading in the right direction for T.
I do not know how but you are on dot as far as prediction is concerned. If you go back pages I wrote that even before release of SKC based on few tweets who has some inside info.
Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 570
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Dasari »

No matter who comes to power at the center, they need the support of 25-30 MPs from Andhra, Rayaalaseema and Hyderabad. Another way of saying this is that the rights of 5 crore people cannot be overridden by the demands of 3 crore people. It is not going to happen, regardless of how much agitation and violence we do. Period.

Thanks to politicians who exploited the fissures between the regions, a division in my opinion is the only way forward, and can happen only by mutual agreement that satisfies all three regions. It could be option 4 or option 5.

Trashing SKC report or name calling Andhra people or throwing stones or threatening people or burning buses will not solve the problem. There has to be some negotiation from both sides. There will not be any signing of blank paper. So don’t expect cart before the horse. First negotiate and agree what the compromise is, then automatically all regions will sign up for either of the options.
tchandr
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 47
Joined: 28 Nov 2008 04:45

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by tchandr »

NDTV had a segment, water wars of Andhra (aired 11.1.11, 6AM IST). I would try to summarize the contents

1. River Krishna enters AP through Mehboobnagar dist, yet there is no water for irrigation.
2. Andhra farmers are benefiting for the Krishna river and growing rich, Telangana farmers are suffering.

I remember reading (here in this forum) about the deccan plateau's height above sea level as one of the reason why the region is facing problem in harvesting the river waters.

Now my questions
1. If the geography is one of the factors why was it ignored well knowing that this can be interpreted as T vs A or a case of bad journalism?
2. Can the gurus in the forum give me some references regarding the water woes of the Telangana region.

Thanks
PS: The backdrop of this news segment. Jagan's rally in Delhi for farmer's plight.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

RamaY wrote: Culture of entrepreneurship. This need not be dependent upon government. If we are talking about Govt help on entrepreneurship then how far it can be a convincing cause for separate statehood?

Development of towns and villages. Then separate political council with budgetary authority. Even here, i did not understand what you meant by "developing at one's own pace". Isn't it contradictory to all the reasons given for separate-T demand?
In my view, this is extremely relevant. Let us try to read the meaning behind the T-rhetoric and not fall for TRS statements. If this is not relevant there is even no need for gentlemen agreement and also there is no need for regional reservations that we have since 1969 in educational institutions. Not now but when there were real good leaders in Telangana, they did say that Andhras are way forward and cut throat in competetion based on the socio-economic situation of 1950s. In a way there is truth. In real and competetive world you will never wait in your growth until the slow guy reaches you. India tried that before the liberalization is another topic.

TRS masquadering as dochukunnaru ect are for masses to rally around but the truth for T is they needed a state so that their chances are not taken away by a fast guy.

The reason for bringing in comparision of towns and cities is because at the end of the day in future, they are the ones that create wealth and revenues. There are none in T that can compare to the list of towns and cities in seemandhra region.

What I means is that the growth statistics are fine but wealth projections are not done in SKC. The main sore point that is not put properly as a case for T by T-vadhis is that their future wealth projections are extremely poor if they exclude HYD. It is not the same on the otherside.
ravi_ku wrote:Mupalla garu,

Are such stats feasible? For example, the marwadi/gujarati community has a strong hold over whole sale business almost everywhere including hyderabad. Now should those stats be counted in Telangana/AP or in gujarat/rajasthan? Should ramoji film city be considered part of telangana, because Ramoji rao has shifted lock, stock and barrel to hyderabad. Should the film industry be considered telangana?
SKC was able to provide couple of interesting statistics. The total migrant population in Hyderabad is only 16% which is very lower than what the general belief is. If we do not concentrate on few icons like Ramoji Rao etc., it is fairly possible to get a list of wealthy people in each region with a margin of error. I believe it is very important. Actually I belive the entire T grievence is actually around this section only though they made all andhras as villians. To create perception in common people that is what politicians do. andrhas are coleteral and though that is unfortunate but inevitable based on Indian politics.
ShyamSP wrote:That is useless exercise. How individuals can invest and prosper is none of business of government with respect to state division. We can only judge objectively that government money is equitably distributed and benefited. In that aspect, poor in Telangana not getting benefits of development in Telangana is more relevant.
It is true but one fact is undeniable. India has decisively entered into crony capitalism and its influence and being driver of politics. Even now see, if T is formed hastily, the andhra MPs are able to give a massive fight back. In spite of government's dillidallying and also TDP's two eyes theories, T-politicians are not able to makeup their decision of quitting faster and then bid on their own. They are still in the older mould of depending on the parent party and its leaders. Even KCR inspite of the frontend has to do a lot of dance.

It is extremely expensive to buy an MP in seemandhra but it is not the same case in T. The kind of money that they spend in Andhra is mindbogling. A ZPP seat loser is spending 5 to 10 crores. An SC MP is spending a minimum of 20 crore. Lagadapati spends about 100 crore easily for Vijayawada seat. In T who can spend to that level? This way T leaders can never beatout the otherside to get to leadership. The writing is clearly on the wall.

These are the real reasons for sustained campaign by all political parties thistime around in T as compared to 1969. Inside TDP also the T members know the facts as they are only at the mercy of only CBN.

I beleive the future private wealth projections are important measures for the type of economy that India has entered after 1990. I wish SKC should have done a chapter on that part too.

I beleive these are the real takleefs, however, I do not beleive there will be any solutions to these problems by having a seperate state. The new state will still need capital and private capital will have to be invited and the "cut-throat" ones will be in the same queue and they will lobby the politicians and get their work done.

Added later:
Another option for T to achieve the above parity is to have something equivalant to Article-370.
munna
BRFite
Posts: 1392
Joined: 18 Nov 2007 05:03
Location: Pee Arr Eff's resident Constitution Compliance Strategist (Phd, with upper hand)

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by munna »

Muppalla wrote:
I beleive these are the real takleefs, however, I do not beleive there will be any solutions to these problems by having a seperate state. The new state will still need capital and private capital will have to be invited and the "cut-throat" ones will be in the same queue and they will lobby the politicians and get their work done.
Excellent point regarding crony capitalism, as this is the feedback that I received. Muppallaji I believe that a CM of a state no matter how small is >>powerful than an empowered minister in a large state. Thus administrative and police reins in T-state would mean that all the previous tribute that used to go to big politicians in coast or even Delhi will be compulsorily surrendered in T state :mrgreen:. That is they will get the same work done but the tribute circuit will change completely so traditional power structures will be torn apart. A state will allow T region to spawn it's own crony capitalists and doyens!
No doubt all the riches and a promise of new elite is proving to be tempting for a large section of populace. Once again my regards for an excellent post.
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10540
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

Let us see the provisions of the constitution relating to formation of any new state etc. The relevant provisions are :

Article 3.

Parliament may by law—

(a) form a new State by separation of territory from any State or by uniting two or more States or
parts of States or by uniting any territory to a part of any State;

(b) increase the area of any State;

(c) diminish the area of any State;

(d) alter the boundaries of any State;

(e) alter the name of any State:

Provided that no Bill for the purpose shall be introduced in either House of Parliament except on the
recommendation of the President and unless, where the proposal contained in the Bill affects the area, boundaries or name of any of the States, the Bill has been referred by the President to the Legislature of that State for expressing its views thereon within such period as may be specified in the reference or within such further period as the President may allow and the period so specified or allowed has expired.

Explanation I.—In this article, in clauses (a) to (e), "State'' includes a Union territory, but in the proviso,
"State'' does not include a Union territory.

Explanation II.—The power conferred on Parliament by clause (a) includes the power to form a new State or Union territory by uniting a part of any State or Union territory to any other State or Union territory.


I have gone through the law books available with me and as per the decisions of the Supreme Court this power of the Parliament is quite wide. But the process itself can not be by passed. So in the instant case, if the Central Government want to divide AP it has to prepare and approve a draft resolution in the cabinet and then send it through President of India to AP Assembly for its view. A reasonable time should be given to AP Assembly to provide its views. Thereafter the views of the resolution along with the views of the AP state Assembly shall be put before Parliament for its consideration. A Simple majority is sufficient for the passing of bill.

Historically when our republic formed there were huge number of princely states etc and entire set up was created by British for their imperial purpose. So a simple process and complete power was given to the Parliament for the reorganization of the state. Further at that time very few of the members of the constitutional assembly members can be termed as a true federal supporters. This is because of the historical background under which they lived wherein the predominant fear of uncertainty and fear of dismemberment of the republic itself. Such fears were invoked by the Delhi establishment whenever some strong regional political force is formed to oppose it.

There are broadly 3 or 4 waves of state reorganization in the history. They are:

1. On the linguistic basis.
2. Division of Maharashtra and Punjab etc.
3. Various north eastern states
4. Recent division of the 3 states.

Though INC initially agree for the creation of the separate states in early 1900’s it basically went back and opposed the same. They even formed committees for that with Nehru and Patel etc and decided against it. But the desire for the Telugu people to have a state of their own was quite strong and Andhra Maha Sabha was formed in some wherein 1910 (1912?) Huge movement for a Telugu administrative unit was there even before Independence. Mind you this is not to have a nation but to have a state within any India nation. So this movement from the start is the desire of the Telugu people to retain their own unity which was lost when the Kakathiya Empire fell so long back. Though there was unity under Nizam, many may not know that under Nizam one can not speak with Telugu in any public meeting and no Telugu education was given. So naturally the people wanted to have their own linguistic province.

Yet Nehru was against the Telugu people having a state on simple linguistic basis. When asked by some Press fellows ( Yes this evil was there then also) that when are we going to get a Andra State he famously said “ Is it in my Pocket” When there was no response from Delhi for the demand of a separate state for Telugu people living in Madras province, Sri Potti Sriramulu, a gandhian worker went into hunger strike till death. Here we need to know something about him. He belong to Nellore and follower of Gandhi. He always used to wear card boards on his chest and back with slogans written against evil things like Untouchablity. Many times children used to through stones on him. Yet he never stopped this practice. He was not a big leader of Congress at that time and held no political positions. He never aspired for them. There was no response from Delhi for this hunger strike and he died after some 58 days. The death of this Gandhian resulted in serious disturbances in the Telugu areas and as a result Nehru had to bend and Andra Rastram was formed with Karnool as capital. Later, when the Fuzal Ali Committee had given its report AP state was formed during the reorganization of the states on linguistic basis.

The Telangana areas in Hyderabad province were merged into AP and such action had overwhelming support of the then Assembly of Hyderabad province. The so called gentle men agreement is an agreement between congress leaders of both the sides and no other political parties were involved. Out of the people who are party to them most of them later became CM’s of the AP and PV Narasimha Rao and Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy even became PM and President respectively.

In this back ground, in case we want to have a separate Telangana state ,Union Government is required for follow up the process as above. Now as per the demands of the KCR and other politicos no resolution will be even moved in the state assembly. Such action will be in violation of the Article 3. If there is any resolution put in the Assembly it will be defeated. If the word is only about the opinion and no resolution even them the opinion will be negative. So basically the Parliament has to disregard the rejection of the AP State Assembly and pass a resolution dividing the state. Such division has no logical reason. With SKC not accepting the development reason, there is no development reason; there is no cultural and linguistic reason. So what will be the reason for the division of the state? I wonder if the division of the state can be made solely for political convenience of the present day political dispensation at Delhi with no regard to the views of the local people who are affected.

If such actions are agreeable then every new ruler with simple majority in Parliament would like to have new states as per their political or looting requirement and we will have new states created all the time either by dividing existing states and merging them into one other. So the entire structure of states will become adhoc and solely dependant on the whims and fancies of people like Rajamata. For example since only a simple majority is sufficient Rajamata to create entire set of states with the places wherein they will be in power. So divide states say like Gujarat where she and her cronies are finding it difficult to come to power and form new state with places which will vote for her gang. Further whenever some set of politicos become unemployed like Ajit Singh, KCR, and others they take up demands for news states and raise emotions.

But in the case of AP, does Rajamatha has political will to proceed with the division of the state inspite of the opposition from the majority in the AP state? I don’t think it is there. There is no great benefit to her family with the division and unless she sees something big to gain or she is totally mislead like when happened in December 2009 she will not do it. Remember if she agree to this there will be dozens of similar demands else where and what will happen to make rahul baba PM in 2014?

It is surprising that Telangana vadis are asking for the bill to be put in parliament in the coming Budget Session of the House. It can not be simply done like that. The process involved is already mentioned by me above. Does there people do not know this? They know it very well and yet lying to people. Most unfortunate.

Also posted in my blog

http://rlindia.blogspot.com/2011/01/tel ... ament.html
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Naryana Raogaru, Why did the INC feel the need to oppose the linguistic states after initially agreeing in 1900s.

Also why did the Telugu people feel the need to ask for self governance in those early days? Was the demand suddenly raised in 1900s?

BTW kudos to you for recounting the early demand for a Telugu region. At that time there was no DK, DMK, Justice Party or even Gandhi on the political scene.

Also Potti SriRamulugaru was a true satyygrahi. When he went on hunger strike it was till death and not orange juice after sometime. INC did not care for him as they though he was an orange juice hunger striker.

One account by Ramachandra Guha in 2003

The Battle for Andhra
Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 570
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Dasari »

Narayana Rao garu, very good points. In a way you are asking for the formation of another SRC. Right?
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

No.
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Muppalla wrote:I beleive these are the real takleefs, however, I do not beleive there will be any solutions to these problems by having a seperate state. The new state will still need capital and private capital will have to be invited and the "cut-throat" ones will be in the same queue and they will lobby the politicians and get their work done.
Excellent post Muppala garu!

This is exactly my thought. Even if/when T-state is formed, it cannot hold back private investments. This time, the so-called Seemandhra people will come in the royal route at their government's invitation.

Even in political scene who can stop the so-called Seemandhra TDP or Seemandhra Congress leaders in influencing their respective Telangana colleagues in the name of party policy?

The only benefit T-people can get in Govt. Jobs sector and may be education sector. That is mainly the reason behind the unwavering support by these two groups for T-parties. But the Govt. jobs are shrinking day by day and Engg/Medical seat availability is a non-issue in AP and soon a new T-state will lose its sheen for these two groups. Then it will be T-state that will be at loss as they will be losing the support of seemandhra folks due to the bad blood.

That doesn't mean T-state will be a failed case. It would require honest leadership and able administration for at least 15-20 years. Can KCR/TRS or INC-T/TDP-T assure that?
Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 570
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Dasari »

Muppalla wrote:I beleive these are the real takleefs, however, I do not beleive there will be any solutions to these problems by having a seperate state. The new state will still need capital and private capital will have to be invited and the "cut-throat" ones will be in the same queue and they will lobby the politicians and get their work done.
If this happens there is a good chance that all the pent up frustration of common man will explode and state slide into maoist hands. Hopefully, organizations like TDF, don't stop their work and continue to put pressure on govt.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7115
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

Narayana Rao garu, don't look into constitutional stuff, legalities, correctness or wrongs. For and against are all over. It is all about sheer political manuverablity at the end.

I request you look the possibilities of making the impossible. Look for how to give T by reading the political situation in AP and also in India. As ShyamSP had wrote it is a real deadlock. Now try to see the circumstances how Jharkhand was created. It was a forced consensus in the assembly.
Now read this article -
http://www.suryaa.com/main/showNews.asp ... ntId=12695

It is like this - TDP did not revive even in Andhra region. TDP, Jagan and TSR will split the 296 seats. How will the government of AP form? This is where the forced consensus will be forced to split the state to break the deadlock. Everyone thinks of being only relevant and not some lofty ideas. They will finally say goli maar and then the center with INC and BJP will pass off the stuff to form 29th state of India. For those who hope against hope and think that TRS will not do as good as expected, I don't know this time. :)
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by SwamyG »

RamaY wrote: We = people who want to use a logical, fact-based and nationalistic approach to states reorganization. And this cannot be applied only to Telangana region. Madhurai, Vidarbha, Northern K'taka, Gurkhaland, Bhimavaram (W.G Dist in AP) everything is a fair game.
Madurai? Why? It becomes purely an emotional or psychological issue, if you agree that it makes sense to split AP for reasons you cite, but yet other states are not split or their split delayed and insist others be split too. It points to a disturbing thought process.
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Why not other states? How is AP different?

I just picked the names that came to my mind. Perhaps divine mother is behind that thought.
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10540
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

Once thing we are all not looking at is the security angle which may have need influencing the Delhi.

In respect of election, I wonder if Telugu people are no stupid not to see political background of all these dramas politicos are doing. I think in any election INC will be punished for sure. But i wonder if Jagan or TRS may be benifited to that extent. TDP still have powerful force even in Telangana so main benificiary will be TDP because Jagan will cut mainly into Congress vote only. I think entire vote may not be transfered to him. If it happens then it will be hell like situation to INC and sonia should start visitng Kadapa for taking help from Jagan.

In respect of TRS it does not have any serious organisational network as of now also. It will not win much in Hyderabad city with 20 plus seats. Can it mobalise money and all to contest against congress people in remainig 100 seats ? Its latest sucess rate is 20% and I am sure elections will not be held in near future even if the governament falls tomorrow as INC will wait till it finds a suitable time to conduct elections. It will promote all Telangana leaders and come up with all kind of development dramas and put all kind of money in the election time. With their organisation they are also still a force and if managed well they will win good no of seats even in Telangana. But if all the Congress leaders in Telangana migrate to TRS then they are in troble there. Similarly TDP will be in problems if there is serious migration from them to TRS. So if there is no big migration from TDP and INC TRS will find it difficult to win in many seats. Further we do not know how much Jagan gang has power in Telangana and how he plays any election game.

Gurus Alagiri wants Madurai so MADURAI ALSO TO BE GIVEN. :rotfl:
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by putnanja »

RamaY wrote:Why not other states? How is AP different?

I just picked the names that came to my mind. Perhaps divine mother is behind that thought.
Divine mother?? LOL, more like a twisted mind , the kind which thinks "if things don't go my way, i will make sure it doesn't go well for anyone else too" :roll:

While Gorkhaland has had pretty vocal support from the locals, vidarbha and N karnataka has had very miniscule support. But Madurai has had no such demands, and it takes a sick jealous mind to even drag in places where there has been no such demand
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

I feel shy when people give too much importance to Telugus.

Putnanja garu, what is so special about Telugus? Why only Telangana?

If you don't believe me I can arrange a "fast unto death" for a separate Madurai state in a day.

Seriously how is my separate-Madurai demand is different from separate-Telangana demand? Why cant we have a separate Coimbatore state also?
munna
BRFite
Posts: 1392
Joined: 18 Nov 2007 05:03
Location: Pee Arr Eff's resident Constitution Compliance Strategist (Phd, with upper hand)

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by munna »

RamaY wrote:Why not other states? How is AP different?.
In terms of aspirant states of India Telangana is the oldest region with aspirant status, rest all regions have got what they wanted. Regardless of the merits of demand, Telangana state movement has undeniable historical track and is not an off the cuff figment of imagination. Madurai is not == Telangana. Certainly not, maybe Vidharbha yes but not Madurai or any other TN or Kar region.
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by putnanja »

RamaY wrote:I feel shy when people give too much importance to Telugus.

Putnanja garu, what is so special about Telugus? Why only Telangana?

If you don't believe me I can arrange a "fast unto death" for a separate Madurai state in a day.

Seriously how is my separate-Madurai demand is different from separate-Telangana demand? Why cant we have a separate Coimbatore state also?


Telangana demand is not new, it has been there for more than last 20-30 years, same with gorkhaland too. And it is being asked by telugus, not tamilians or kannadigas or north indians.

People here claim as though telugus are the super heroes of india and other indians are jealous and so want to break unity of telugus. there has been equal or more contributions to the country from all states, whether they are gujaratis, marathas, hindi speaking folks, tamilians, or any other community. This thread has been full of conspiracy theories as though AP is the US of India and other states are actively trying to break it. Many states like Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Uttaranchal etc have been carved out so far based on local aspirations. And no, Maharashtra, Karnataka or Orissa aren't planning to gobble up Telangana if it becomes a separate state. It will still be a land of telugus and will continue to contribute to telugu literature and arts.
ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2564
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ShyamSP »

RamaY wrote:I feel shy when people give too much importance to Telugus.

Putnanja garu, what is so special about Telugus? Why only Telangana?

If you don't believe me I can arrange a "fast unto death" for a separate Madurai state in a day.

Seriously how is my separate-Madurai demand is different from separate-Telangana demand? Why cant we have a separate Coimbatore state also?
There is separate N.Tamilnadu demand for which P.Chidu said they should nip it in the bud. Last year there was protest to have Krishnagiri dist to join Chittoor. Hiccups like that are everywhere ignoring level of commitment for such demands. Having said that there is overarching Tamil ideology to have INC or BJP to meddle now.

They found T is fault-line to break these regional dominance. Andhra being at forefront for language-based states, if they break AP doing the same to other states including TN for political convenience in the future is easy. If you want to reshape, start with AP.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by SwamyG »

ramana wrote:BTW kudos to you for recounting the early demand for a Telugu region. At that time there was no DK, DMK, Justice Party or even Gandhi on the political scene.
The Justice Party was formed in 1916. But it was preceded by Madras Dravidian Association. This was formed circa 1912. The non-brahmin takleef towards brahmins had started a little while ago. From the 1850s, Tamil and Telugu brahmins began to dominate the Madras Presidency politics. Some figures put these people at 3.2% of the total Presidency population. They were highly regarded for patronizing Sanskrit and Hindu religion. Apart from these fields, several Telugu and Tamil brahmins were land owners. In parts of Madras Presidency there were only slight differences in the lifestyle, customs and manners; and in those years Madras was the happening place in terms of politics. I read some where, traces of takleef in the minds of non-brahmins were discovered even in the late 1880s. The trouble simmered but nothing major happened until the 1910s. Anni Besant and Home Rule announcement sent these non-Brahmins into the "Dravidian" hands.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Thanks SwamyG.

ShyamSP, Do you recall a Frontline article in early 2000 that talked about 50-100 states in India by the mid-century?

Every one scoffed at that idea then. Looks like that was the game plan out in the open and no one even thought it would go on like this!
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by SwamyG »

RamaY wrote:Why not other states? How is AP different?

I just picked the names that came to my mind. Perhaps divine mother is behind that thought.
So you will agree to the split of AP, say if all the other states were split too. Probably we should get to cut Kerala too. You had me for a moment in your camp and I thought you had the right heart. Looks like you are saying if my joint family is getting split for x,y,z reasons why not split the neighbor's families too.

It has been nice talking to ya....
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

SwamyG garu,

I was pushing the envelope with that Madurai comment. Don't take it seriously.

I think it will be fair if there is a 2nd SRC to identify the criteria to create new states. I am ok to split AP only on such basis. If separate Telangana is the recommendation by that yard stick, so be it. But I want other states to be benchmarked using that criteria and split them before some TDH comesup with a separate state demand.

I don't know which group I belong to with my pro samaikya Andhra stand and a pro standardised state reorganization stand.
Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 570
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Dasari »

SwamyG wrote:
RamaY wrote:Why not other states? How is AP different?

I just picked the names that came to my mind. Perhaps divine mother is behind that thought.
So you will agree to the split of AP, say if all the other states were split too. Probably we should get to cut Kerala too. You had me for a moment in your camp and I thought you had the right heart. Looks like you are saying if my joint family is getting split for x,y,z reasons why not split the neighbor's families too.

It has been nice talking to ya....
All he said was that without a logical standard for splitting the state, based on the current criteria, regardless of what figment of imagination one has, the domino effect cannot be controlled. He threw Madhurai as an example and all the hell broke lose. So much for lecture on sub regional identities.
Locked