Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

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Anujan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Anujan »

shiv wrote:Try as it might the Pakistan army has lost focus on Kashmir. They have tried to fight a desperate rearguard action by saying that India is responsible for all the troubles in Afghanistan, but that does not appear to be good enough.
Shiv-ji
This is one of the reasons why IMO the jihadi types are giving out desperate calls for Unkil to move out of Afghanistan. So they can do IT (international terrorism) export to Afghanistan and rid themselves of the yahoos. Already LeT is operating in A'stan.

Sometimes the Jihadis do have freudian slip -- like this gem from Imran Khan:
Pakistan will implode if the US does not leave Afghanistan....So after 9/11, when General Musharraf chose to ally with the Americans in the "war on terror", it was a fundamental blunder. Overnight he turned the jihadi groups created to fight foreign occupation from supporters into enemies, people prepared to fight the Pakistani army because of its support for the US invasion.
His major takleef is not that Jihadi groups exist, but the complaint that Jihadi groups dont fight the fights picked out for them by the PA!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RamaY »

ramana wrote:SSridhar, Great analysis on state of TSPA. Shiv awesome summary of the changing factors. Can you depict that in a Venn diagram or some such graphic, before and after Islamization and Pahstun Civil War?
+1. These two posts should go into updated "Understanding Pakistan" slide-deck to make it current.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Hari Seldon wrote:Even as we speak none (or at most one) of the crore commanders of the PA is a beard. Agreed, fundoos like Hamid Gul need no beard and the clean shaven india haters are actually perhaps more dangerous, but slowly as the % of beards in the crore commander groups grows, we can rest assured, TSP's rent-seeking abilities so critically dependent on running with the hare and hunting with the hound will have vanished only. Looking forward to that day.
Here is how I see it.

Paki without beard is India hating jihadi so world likes him. Paki with beard is all kafir hating jihadi including lesser shades of green. So everyone including unkil and pakis are scared of him.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

Arjun wrote:
wig wrote:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110110/edit.htm#5

Salman Taseer was murdered because of his stand on the blasphemy law regarding Holy Prophet. There is a strange coincidence. His father too had praised, defended and arranged for the funeral of Illamddin in 1929 because Illamddin, who had killed Rajpal Malhotra, the owner of Hind Pocket Books and father of former Punjab Governor Surender Nath because of his comments on Holy Prophet.
That's an interesting twist!!
karma works whether you belive in it or not.

So Salman Tasser's father supported Ilamuddin the killer of Rangeela Rassol publisher as a case of blashphemy. And now his son was killed by people of Ilamuddin's ilk.

I think this fact should be blogged.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Lalmohan »

It is not easy for LMU faculty to get publishing deals these days...
Fury over doctor's book on sex education for Muslims
"I have had threats. Even other doctors have accused me of acting like a maverick, a quack," he says.

"A provincial politician even hauled me into his office and said I was encouraging *****. I explained I was doing nothing of the sort."

Dr Akhtar says he has found very few bookshops willing to stock his book, or any newspapers that will print paid advertisements for it.

"It is a very sad reaction. Ignorance about sexual matters is causing a lot of our young people unnecessary psychological distress, and we have to change that.

"I am only talking about educating people gradually and sensitively, but at the moment we are not even doing that."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by CRamS »

Pratyush wrote: this is the day we were waiting for................
You won't be disappointed: TSP's tit for tat on Mumbai

Wonder what Indian response to this will be?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by krisna »

India Journal: Why Pakistan Needs India Now
The tragic assassination of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer has been taken by many as a sign of the ascendancy of fundamentalist Islam and the danger this poses to the Pakistani state, to say nothing of the repercussions for India
(been a problem since birth)
We know that the rise of fundamentalism and bigotry have throughout history been tied to economic decay and crises. The best example of this is the rise to power of the Nazis in Germany during the economic collapse of the Weimar republic. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan has gone hand-in-glove with its economic decline. This is important not just to Pakistan but to India. As we all know, fundamentalism has spilled over our borders principally through terrorism.
ekonomic facts-
Pakistan’s economic growth rate is an abysmal 2.5% compared to India’s, which is approaching double digits. Pakistan’s debt-to-GDP ratio is over 60%. Pakistan’s ratio of tax-to-GDP is below 10% and many of the nation’s elite pay no tax at all. In fact, only 2 million Pakistanis, mostly salaried professionals and civil servants, out of a population of 180 million pay taxes. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
One can debate whether Pakistan is a failing state but it’s clearly a failing economy.
BRF speaks
To put it graphically: the Pakistani economy is like a sick patient kept alive by being constantly pumped full of drugs—money poured in by the U.S. and international organizations such as the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. If this money were cut off, the economy would go into cardiac arrest.
Shiv has mentioned about trade potential between TSP and India in many of his posts-
How does India fit into this picture? And can two nuclear-armed rivals with a fraught relationship meaningfully engage in trade and commerce with each other?
Trade is one of the engines of growth and development but in the case of Pakistan, this potentially important link with India is virtually missing. At present trade is roughly $2 billion a year.
Pakistan accounts for less than 1% of India’s trade and India less than 5% of Pakistan’s trade. Contrast this to the bilateral trade relationship following independence, when 70% of Pakistan’s trade was with India while more than 60% of India’s exports went to Pakistan.
There is also an estimated $2 billion to $3 billion a year in trade that takes place unofficially through third countries, especially the United Arab Emirates.
If this could be normalized as bilateral trade, it would occur at a much lower cost and therefore greater economic gain.
We in India have yet to fully absorb this lesson(we give MFN status and want more trade and no terrorism). A prosperous Pakistan will not only be good for Pakistanis themselves but also good for us in India( it is bad for India if TSP propers because it will increase terrorist attacks on India).
(author is having a bout of wkkitis)
It’s time for the liberal commentators on both sides of the border to stop wringing their hands about the demise of a secular liberal democracy, because Pakistan hasn’t been that for some time, if it ever was.
(good quote)
Liberals in Pakistan may fight on but it’s time for us in India to accept that Pakistan is an Islamic state with Islamic values and laws.
(No it is always a danger to have a rabid state like TSP bent on India's destruction, better it dies than alive)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

CRS,
Why is it an Indian issue? It was the INC that created the bogey and let them deal with it. Digvijay Singh and his ilk did this undermining and they should be the ones to extricate. Off course Cherub was also playing with fire.
MMS didn't do it.

Krisna, the writer is an idiot. Typical to fish in troubled waters. Any offer of Indian help will make the Pak govt suicided. Pak govt is already in big toruble.

They need to sort things over and then things can be looked at.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svinayak »

krisna wrote:
Liberals in Pakistan may fight on but it’s time for us in India to accept that Pakistan is an Islamic state with Islamic values and laws.
(No it is always a danger to have a rabid state like TSP bent on India's destruction, better it dies than alive)
India deals with many Islamic countries of the Middle east which have more strict Islamic laws than Pakistan.
India trades with them with billions of dollars without any problems.
So this need for India accept this or that does not arise.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by CRamS »

ramana wrote:CRS,
Why is it an Indian issue? It was the INC that created the bogey and let them deal with it. Digvijay Singh and his ilk did this undermining and they should be the ones to extricate. Off course Cherub was also playing with fire.
MMS didn't do it.

Krisna, the writer is an idiot. Typical to fish in troubled waters. Any offer of Indian help will make the Pak govt suicided. Pak govt is already in big toruble.

They need to sort things over and then things can be looked at.
It is an Indian issue boss, because INC is in power. I am not sure what MMS's stratgey is. As squalid as this has come down to, the only salvaging Chanakyan strategy one can conjure up ith great difficulty could be this: MMS tells TSP OK, here is the update, now give us Mumbai update. Even in response to India stooping to this level, this would be a non starter as TSP will be hard pressed to expose its own army. Of course, TSP is too diabolically smart to fall for this in any case, they will spin a web around the dhothiwallhs and milk this for all its worth, and say India has neither shared all the details of Samjotha, nor has it given any "evidence" on Mumbai except "literature".

But the more likely reason why MMS is going down this path is to forget Mumbai. So when future history of Mumbai is written, most likeley in the halls of power in the west, it will be India conducted Samjotha, TSP responded with Mumbai, and "both sides" do this to each other.

Sorry to make you throw up.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by krithivas »

I'm impressed with Pakistan's reaction (for once). Even they are taking their own time to parse the information coming out of Congress (i.e., NIA), and are not jumping with both their feet to draw an equal-equal. There are at-least two possibilities:
1) Sensing a trap and therefore not embracing this information.
2) They know who did it, and are absolutely dismissive of NIA's charges.
NIA's charges better be remotely true otherwise it is bloody damning of India's credibility. It will embolden LeT & Co. to strike more forcefully and more often, while Congress (NIA) keeps incriminating otherwise (self-flagellation raised to n).
CRamS wrote:
Pratyush wrote: this is the day we were waiting for................
You won't be disappointed: TSP's tit for tat on Mumbai

Wonder what Indian response to this will be?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by saket »

Re: Samjhauta, I am not sure if the NIA is on the right track because of US pointing fingers at Asif Qasmani.

Also, this was a curious statement made by Rehman Malik a year ago in which he claimed that pakistani islamic militants were involved in the attack while also implicating Col. Purohit, the latter obviously being a face saver.
"Colonel Purohit was interrogated by one of the director investigations, Kur Kury, who was killed in the attack. This clearly demonstrates that there were some Pakistan-based Islamists who had been hired to carry out the Samjohta Express attack. That is the dossier we have requested India to provide us with, but they haven't," said Malik.

http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/da ... alik-ss-05
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

Thousand points of Light !! A good target for National Bird to strike.
Poaks burning bright while walking so tight, The spirit of Ghazi Qadri in their own right .
Are they walking into Qaid's Musharrafoleum or coming out of the TFTA slit ?

Image
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by CRamS »

krithivas wrote: 2) They know who did it, and are absolutely dismissive of NIA's charges.
NIA's charges better be remotely true otherwise it is bloody damning of India's credibility. It
Of course TSP knows who did this.

But coming to credibility, credibility for whom? Do you think credibility matters any more? There are no mountains of evidence that India can produce, and it has on Mumbai and other terror acts by TSP, which will be accepted by US and TSP even though they know how credible India's case is. Its easy to poke holes.

What we are witnessing is a test of will power, and strength each side brings to the table. So far its equal equal, facts be damned. TSP has the terrorists, nukes, US (and west), political will and single-minded destroy India focus on its side. India has military #s on paper, lots of abstract mumbo jumbo on "cold start" & "great power" rhetroic, nukes (assuming they actually work) on its side. What India does not have is the political will power, honesty, integrity, and sense of nationhood on its side. Thats why we are seeing this side-tracking with "saffron terror" garbage from MMS & Co.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

On line drawn between the cerebral cortex and the gluteus maximus the Pakis are located close tot he GM while India is close to the CC. hence they come and bit us in the rear always!

Cerebral cortex.......................................Gluteus Maximus
<--------------------------------------------------->
.........India.................................................Pakis
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

The whole "South Asia" Poak saga has great parallel to the Devas and Asuras born together . Both were advised by their Guru to look and contemplate at their own reflection in the mirror and how Deva using intellect and intution understood and perceived the divinity behind the body but Asuras saw onlee the reflection of the gross physical body object and went on becoming Poak in this era. Prisoner of their nature , their mind dwells onlee below their navel. Asuras are still trying to steal , wrestle precious things from Devas but like old time , keep getting ticked ,licked ,whipped and shipped to the dark and deepest corner of Insanityat.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Carlotta Gall in the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/world ... istan.html
They didn't listen to us. You try to tell them in as objective terms as possible, and they are dubious, they dismiss it as Indian propaganda. Now they realize.
But the lawyers’ stance is perhaps just the most glaring expression of what has become a deep generational divide tearing at the fabric of Pakistani society, and of the broad influence of religious conservatism — and even militancy — that now exists among the educated middle class.

They are often described as the Zia generation: Pakistanis who have come of age since the 1980s, when the military dictator, Gen. Mohammad Zia ul-Haq, began to promote Islam in public education and to use it as a political tool to unify this young and insecure nation.

Today, the forces he set loose have gained such strength that they threaten to overwhelm voices for tolerance in Pakistan’s feeble civilian government. They certainly present a nagging challenge for the United States.

Washington has poured billions of dollars into the Pakistani military to combat terrorism, but has long neglected a civilian effort to counter the inexorable pull of conservative Islam. By now the conservatives have entered nearly every part of Pakistani society, even the rank-and-file security forces, as the assassination showed. The military, in fact, has been conspicuously silent about the killing.

“Over time, Pakistani society has drifted toward religious extremism,” said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a political and defense analyst from Lahore. “This religious sentiment has seeped deep into government circles and into the army and police at lower levels.”

“The lower level are listening to the religious people,” he said.

Indeed, the Pakistan of today, and the brand of Islam much of the nation has embraced, is barely recognizable even to many educated Pakistanis older than the Zia generation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

i Kid you not
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... -to-resume
Terrorism exports to India from Pak to resume
In a decision that could soften prices of the bulb considerably, Pakistan’s Ministry of Food and Agriculture has agreed to the move to continue onion exports to India.
This is due to adequate production of the vegetable despite the floods that devastated agricultural lands across Pakistan last year, an official of the ministry told PTI.
However, the Commerce and Foreign Ministries here are opposed to onion exports, he said.
Sources in the Indian High Commission confirmed that there has been no movement of onion consignment since the ban was imposed by Pakistani authorities last week.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arnab »

Prem wrote:i Kid you not
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... -to-resume
Terrorism exports to India from Pak to resume
The other headline is equally interesting. Nation has a RAA mole :)
We will promote terrorism in the world at every cost: Qureshi
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... st-Qureshi
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

Najam Sethi’s daughter, Mira Sethi, in the Wall Street Journal:

In Pakistan, Tolerance Shrinks
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by bkumar »

^^^ Has she converted to Hindu-ism?

Just from name, who can conclude she is Rapette... *sigh*
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

^^^^ Both the first name and the surname indeed does a superb job of camouflaging her Muslim antecedents by suggesting Hindu. I wonder if that was a deliberate ploy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

“Pope Benedict XVI urges Islamabad to repeal blasphemy law, saying it is a pretext for violence against minorities”:

Pope rebukes Pakistan blasphemy law
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by pgbhat »

arun wrote:Najam Sethi’s daughter, Mira Sethi, in the Wall Street Journal:

In Pakistan, Tolerance Shrinks
With the recent assassination of Punjab Gov. Salman Taseer, the opposite has been true. While his friends, party-workers and family huddled together in despair, Pakistan's silent majority and vocal Islamist minority ignored and celebrated his murder.
Before the so called "Silent Majority" used to "liberal" and "tolerant" no? :rotfl:

wah! so now even RAPE/RAPETTEs are not taking umbrage in "Silent Majority"? :-?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

A_Gupta wrote:Carlotta Gall in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/world ... istan.html

They didn't listen to us. You try to tell them in as objective terms as possible, and they are dubious, they dismiss it as Indian propaganda. Now they realize.
Carlotta Gall is joined by Lisa Curtis of the Heritage Foundation in discovering that “Moderation” is in short supply in Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Extremism is more strongly rooted in Pakistan than we thought
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by putnanja »

arun wrote:Najam Sethi’s daughter, Mira Sethi, in the Wall Street Journal:

In Pakistan, Tolerance Shrinks
For those who want to read the article without subscription, google with the article title and then click on the wsj link and you can read the article in full without subscription
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Singha »

clerics have passed a fatwa on sherry rehman calling her a blasphemer...its open season on her now.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/pak-c ... lled-78199
Media reports said the imam of Sultan Masjid, one of Karachi's biggest mosques, declared Rehman a 'kaafir' (infidel) and 'wajib-ul-qatl' (fit to be killed) while delivering a sermon after the Friday prayers.

The mosque has close ties to the Saudi Arabian government.
I think she'd better cash out her chips, vacate the high table and settle down in london (though there's no lack of murderous islamists in Ukstan too).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

arun wrote:
arun wrote: {Snipped}................ More on the subject of Jack Straw‘s comment that those who originate in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are involved in the sexual grooming of young white girls in the UK :

White girls are 'easy meat' for Pakistani men: Jack Straw under fire for making 'offensive' remarks on sex abuse cases

And when you add the penchant for sexual grooming of young white girls of those who originate in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to their traditional penchant for IT aka Islamic Terrorism, you get this head line:

From terrorists to sexual predators: Who'd be a British Pakistani man right now?
Support for Jack Straw's comment on the prevalence of the involvement of those originating in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in sexually grooming underage girls:

Yorkshire MP backs Straw in Pakistani 'grooming' row

Melanie Philips in the UK’s Daily Mail on the UK Media’s attempt to provide protective camouflage to those originating in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan by use of the term “Asian” in the ongoing debate on the issue of the sexual grooming of children:
Indeed, one of the many red herrings in this debate is that - if cultural characteristics are discussed at all - the gangs tend to be described as ‘Asian’.

But this is to besmirch Sikhs, Hindus, ­Chinese and other Asians.
Read it all:

While Muslim sexual predators have been jailed, it is white Britain's hypocritical values that are to blame
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shiv »

Anujan wrote: This is one of the reasons why IMO the jihadi types are giving out desperate calls for Unkil to move out of Afghanistan. So they can do IT (international terrorism) export to Afghanistan and rid themselves of the yahoos. Already LeT is operating in A'stan.
Actually the jihadi types have been doing the fighting against the Soviets, the Afghans themselves and now the US/NATO. When they used to fight the Soviets the Paki elite/RAPE were supportive of the US. They took the money from the US, kept 80% and paid 20% to the jihadis.

The US now wants to fight the Taliban and is squeezing RAPE balls. The RAPE now find that they can no longer pocket 80% from the US and pay off the jihadis. Thay have to actually fight the jihadis or the US is asking questions about money paid. And the US is kicking jihadi ass in Afghanistan. So the jihadis too are in Pakistan squeezing RAPE balls and asking them to join them as Islamic fighters or else...

The RAPE now are being squeezed by jihadis and the US.

Whose fault is this? (Might as well ask "Whose fault was the tsunami?" :D ) But the jihadis have never changed. They are doing what they have always done. They are fighting in Afghanistan, fighting in Paki border areas, trying to fight India.

The US has done a U turn. It is a superpower and it has the arms and money and is now telling Paki RAPE. OK balls. We both supported Taliban. We don't need them. We will now pay you to oppose them. That is what the RAPE are squealing. If the US leaves Afghanistan - they can show that as a victory and hand Afghanistan to the Islamists and play their usual games.

This is not going to happen. In the long term the NWFP may just be declared a no-go area while the RAPE are paid to clean up Pakjab and Sindh. Rather than the sudden creation of a nation (like Bangladesh on 16 Dec 1971). Pakhtunistan may be created after 20 years of chaos. Starting now.

The fight is now for Pakjab. Will RAPE win with US support? Or will Islamists take over Pakjab?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Muppalla »

SSridhar and Shiv, Thanks for the great analysis.
So the chaos seems to be building up in PA and its org structure. We may be seeing certain actions in globe just to prove that they are still in control. US cannot afford to takeout Nukes from chaotic PA as that will be geopolitical rollback. If PA is rusting up then interesting times are ahead.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by anupmisra »

Pakis offer credit facility to Sri Lanka
:shock:
President Asif Ali Zardari has offered soft-term credit facility to Sri Lanka for importing Pakistani sugar and cement plants.
Is mai-baap IMF ok with this benevolence? On China, duspercenti had this gem to offer:
“Pakistan has many friends, but China is the only dependable friend and our friendship with it is time-tested and has endured changes at the regional and global level.”
This should liven the next TSP - KSA friendship meeting at the annual stoning of the devil during the perambulations.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

Fast collapse of Poakland is not in the interest of any party. It must be a like the boiling of the frog, lobster or crab to make Poak-cioppino . Not that Poaks resembles these creatures of nature but the reward of slow cooking is sweet like jalebi. Let 3.5 sink in 100-200 bIllion more before the millions explosion of mango Poaks. IMHO, time line for proper halal mission needs to be stretched over 10-12 years.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RamaY »

+1

In the meantime PRC can supply fee submarines so TSPA can conduct few daredevil ops in US and EU.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by anupmisra »

Jumping into the fray of condemning Taseer's murder is Li'l Bilawal who said this while safely ensconced in Londonistan.

Bilawal condemns Taseer killing, vows to defend minorities
Bilawal Bhutto-Zardari, chairman of Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), on Monday condemned the killing of Salman Taseer for seeking changes to blasphemy laws, and called those celebrating his death “the real blasphemers”.
“To the Christian and other minority communities in Pakistan, we will defend you,”


And getting carried away with the bluster, Billoo said:
“Those who wish to harm you for a crime you did not commit will have to go through me first.”
And,
“I will not be silenced by fear.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Nandu »

Easy for Bilawal to bluster sitting in London with MI5 security. Let us see if it is reflected in 10%i's actions.
Sri
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Sri »

SSridhar wrote:
Muppalla wrote:
(1) The divisions between the bearded ones and the army has widened from 2004 onwards and the gap has increased due drone attacks.
(2) There is serious need to remove this gap to take the relationship between beards and Army if Pakistan has to get back to glorious past
(3) All the security guards and other security is nothing but the ones carefully drafted by Army
(4) In pursuit of show of loyalty to the beards inside Army and outside - the Army has orchestrated dumping few RAPES. Army itself has many fellow RAPES but however, in the larger interest of the nation it is okay to dump few of them.
Muppalla, I have a refinement to what you have written.

I feel that the PA is not completely in control of itself, and that includes the ISI and MI as well. In that sense, the outside world may tend to ascribe every action to the PA as a whole while in fact some of them might have been carried out by factions not entirely under PA control. The reason for this suspicion is not far to seek.

In earlier days, the RAPEs formed the officer corps of the PA just as the aristocrats and nobles did in the Prussian Army. The foot soldiers came largely from the traditional recruiting grounds of Potohar plateau and Pashtun badlands. As PA lost some of its sheen and as other avenues opened up for the RAPEs, the PA began to widen its net for the officers. The Islamization of the PA by ZAB and then Gen. Zia made matters worse as explicit demonstration of Islamist fervour became an important measurement for promotions etc. within the PA. The Kakul syllabus was radicalized. The current batch of top Generals might well be the last pre-radicalization batch. The Tarbela SSG mess suicide bomb attack or the refusal of several PA units to fight the more pious Taliban are indeed pointers. So, beneath the very top Corps Commanders, the radicalization may be more rampant than what we might give credit for.

All that we know is that by his own admission, the then DG, ISI, Lt. Gen Mahmoud Ahmed estimated as far back as circa 2000, that 15 to 16% of the army officer corps were religious extremists. As we know the Pakistani penchant for underplaying (or overplaying) figures according to exigencies, we can safely assume that the figure should be somewhere between 45 and 50%. Since c. 2000, rather cataclysmic events have taken place that have enormously caused a surge in Islamist fervour and extremism all over the country and PA officers could not have been any exception to the goings on. . In July 2009, the fundamentalist Hizb-ut-Tahrir announced that four Pakistani Army officers sent to Sandhurst for military training had been ‘converted’. One can easily give up any hope for the foot soldiers in this environment. Preachers and jihad motivators like Professor Hafeez Saeed & Masood Azhar have been regularly giving kutbahs in Army mosques. While very large sections of the society, and hence the PA too, are Sunni Hanafi Berelvi, the PA mosques (because of the officially sanctioned easy access by JI, LeT, JeM and Hizb-ut-Tahrir clerics to them) are easy hunting grounds for conversion of these Berelvis to harder core Wahhabi/Deobandi/Salafi/ Ahl-e-Hadees thought processes. This may be more difficult to achieve in the villages or towns where these foot-soldiers come from because the mosques are largely controlled by the Berelvis still.

It is therefore no longer possible for the top-level PA commanders to be completely in charge of the PA. That is one of the reasons for the PA to delay even a token North Waziristan operation in spite of huge American pressure because of the fear that the PA might unravel.

The other issue is the increasing inability of the PA to hold the flock of the PA-pasand sarkari terrorist tanzeems. We now know that one of the reasons for the 26/11 is to show the jihadists that LeT and the PA were still capable of mounting a spectacular assault on India to arrest the flow of deserters from LeT to other Punjabi Taliban groups. I believe that the Khaled Khwaja issue or Maj. Gen. Alavi's case were handled at different levels within the PA and by groups that were aligned with the Punjabi Taliban. Taseer's case might be a similar one. When the PA graduates to the next level of enlightened moderation Insha Allah, such orders to assassinations might well flow from the top, but that may be a few years away yet.

In earlier happy days, the PA split and merged all the various tanzeems whenever it willed and according to its requirements. It no longer possesses that sway because the Punjabi Taliban are fighting for a greater cause than the PA and are also more pious than their PA brothers. The PA is split vertically into TTP-pasand and sarkari-tanzeem-pasand types with the former slowly assuming a bigger following. When the tilt happens heavily in their favour, we will see the fireworks.
SS Sir,

Could this trend also be because of long term survival tactics of PA. Organisational behaviors for survival? PA as we know like any other organisation has a survivability syndrome. May be PA thinks in long term the Land Lords / Aristocratic Pakistan will lose power and the extremist will secure absolute power. Hence slowly they are moving to their camp and hedging the bets against the current political elites?

If the political winds change and if it does transpire that that RAPEs are indeed going to hold sway, PA will adjust accordingly.

I believe that PA as an organisation believes that the number one threat to PA is further break up of Pakistan. I think PA is now absolutely sure that Islam is the only thing that can keep the country together and hence Mullahs are very important to them. This ingrained insecurity is what drives PA slow islamisation.

Pakistan survives because it is in PA's interest and not vice versa...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by V_Raman »

in all this, what will happen if PA/ISI feels really threatened? i hear so many buzzers -- and all are correct -- the prize goes to -- do a spectacular attack on india. nothing drastic anytime soon anyway.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Raghavendra »

Jihad against Jihadists :mrgreen: Waah waah waah
Bilawal Bhutto vows jihad against fundamentalists
London, Jan 11, (PTI):

Bilawal Bhutto, son of the former Pakistan prime minister Benazir Bhutto, has blasted those who have come out in support of the killer of Punjab governor Salman Taseer and vowed to wage a ''jihad'' against fundamentalists.

"This will be our Jihad," young Bilawal, who has political aspirations and who has been named chairman of Pakistan's ruling People's Party, declared. The Punjab governor was shot dead by his bodyguard outside a popular restaurant in Pakistan's capital Islamabad on last Tuesday, in the most high profile assassination in the country since Benazir Bhutto was killed in December 2007.
Bilawal's appearance on Punjab governor's memorial yesterday follows speculation that he may soon return to Pakistan as the leader of the PPP.
Birathers get ready for another sun-roof lever accident :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Hari Seldon »

SSridhar saar,

Awesome analysis only. However, it does raise uncomfy questions regarding the future course of events if it is indeed true that the PA brass no longer holds 'em jihadis 'by the scruffs of their necks', to quote a Gola aide.

I fear largescale as in 3 or even 4 digit casuality figure terror attacks in India involving all manner of dirty tricks from water supply targeting to dirty bum attacks to perhaps even a nook attack if it is indeed true that PA is not one single entity anymore. The mutually assured destruction kinda rationality then ceases to deter anymore.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Singha »

Bilawal: I dont think he has the stomach or street muscle to survive 5 mins outside karachi airport unless he strikes some deal with PA to go after Nawaz. they might agree to use him as a weak pawn to target their enemy.

though the rank and file dark skinned thin farmer in sindh or pakjab may be impressed and cowed down by his london bred 'bearing' and perfect english, the islamists will halal him in no time..they arent about to be cowed down, the mystique of the RAPE is broken once the rank & file knows that AK47s can pump lead into uber RAPE like taseer as well. the minor RAPE must be busy moving out their loot to dubai, london, canada wherever they have placed their kids and relatives.
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