Indo-UK: News & Discussion

Maram · Post by **Maram** » 07 Jan 2011 01:04

There are all sorts of problems with British Pakistani Diaspora apart from Terrorism & Jihadists. There is honour killings,Domestic abuse, cruelty towards wife/daughter in laws, sexual crimes, drug gangs and drug running, financial fraud. I have seen Individuals or heard of individuals convicted of all these heinous crimes. There are Indians, but we are grossly under represented to the proportion of population. But Most of the Indians curiously are from Punjab region. I have a theory, its just a theory...

During Khalistan days there was cross pollination between Punjabis of Indian origin and Pakistani(not all but certain sections)(been to a couple of gurudwaras in eastham and southall with some anti indian feeling by accident and felt very uncomfortable) and that is why there is an over representation of people of Punjabi origin in crime statistics. The British Crime Survey & statistics released by the Office of National Statistics are more up to date and are available on Google search.

Speaking to Pakistani colleagues, there is far greater tolerance of crime and unacceptable behaviour. May be, they are more used to it back home.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Jan 2011 02:01

i think yougov etc., publish the ethnic stats... or you can always ask the MOJ

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 07 Jan 2011 02:19

Lalmohan wrote:london police tactical firearms teams are patrolling railway stations this morning... hope nothing serious is afoot

Alert level has gone up. Terror warnings. Police officer leaves have been cancelled according to news.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 07 Jan 2011 02:37

Prem wrote:Great Britain or Pitiable Britain?
http://awesternheart.blogspot.com/2010/ ... mbers.html
Racist to mention suicide bombers
Swansea bar serving a cocktail drink called a 'Suicide Bomber' has apologised after being accused of "insensitivity."The advert in the window of The Lounge in Wind Street advertises the drink with a mock image of a person wearing an explosive-packed vest.The director of the Swansea Bay Race Equality Council said it went beyond a poor joke and wants it taken down.The bar said they did not mean to cause any offence or to upset anyone. The cocktail is part of a promotion for bomb-themed drinks, alongside 'Skittle Bomb', 'Cherry Bomb' and 'Melon Bomb'.Taha Idris, director of Swansea Bay Race Equality Council, said: "I just can't believe that anyone could be so insensitive with all that is going on in the world.
http://awesternheart.blogspot.com/2010/ ... mbers.html

I think that you may be misunderstanding the comment. It is insensitive to
the families of those who have been killed by a suicide bomber.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 07 Jan 2011 12:09

How is the situation with Indians in the UK vis-a-vis goras?

Are Indians well integrated or leading separate lives and only interacting with goras at a work-place/professional level?

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 07 Jan 2011 12:30

Britain raises terror threat level at airports: Report http://www.zeenews.com/news678981.html

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Jan 2011 19:10

shyamd wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:london police tactical firearms teams are patrolling railway stations this morning... hope nothing serious is afoot
Alert level has gone up. Terror warnings. Police officer leaves have been cancelled according to news.

yup, threat chatter on railway stations and transport hubs

Terror alerts

also note recent UK terrorist linkages to Stockholm and Copenhagen and you guessed it... terror centralistan

Both plots had links to Britain – the Stockholm bomber, Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly, had been living in Luton, while the alleged Danish terrorist cell had links to a network in Derby

Luton and Derby aka Mirpur

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Jan 2011 19:11

Neshant wrote:How is the situation with Indians in the UK vis-a-vis goras?

Are Indians well integrated or leading separate lives and only interacting with goras at a work-place/professional level?

varies at different levels of society, but on the whole - far more integrated, and increasingly being seen as different to the purebred

deWalker · Post by **deWalker** » 08 Jan 2011 08:38

Maram wrote:There are all sorts of problems with British Pakistani Diaspora apart from Terrorism & Jihadists. There is honour killings,Domestic abuse, cruelty towards wife/daughter in laws, sexual crimes, drug gangs and drug running, financial fraud.

....

To add to your list, there is also a serious issue with congenital genetic defects due to extremely common marriages between 1st-cousins among Paki (Mirpuri) descendants in the UK (and here in the US, this is not uncommon either).

Diwakar

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 08 Jan 2011 16:47

An interesting perspective on pak from a British military POV.
Please join the discussion.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/current-affairs- ... lapse.html

They really should be kinder to the child that thet conceived.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Jan 2011 03:53

White girls seen as 'easy meat' by Pakistani rapists, says Jack Straw

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 Jan 2011 19:32

the issue is airing on the most serious political commentary show on tv (panorama) and also been picked up by straw - who has a large pakistani contingent in his constituency. mango brits are finally starting to break out of the politically correct shackles too... changes are afoot

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jan 2011 19:36

how long before south asians are adjudged guilty ?

Maram · Post by **Maram** » 09 Jan 2011 19:37

Lalmohan wrote:the issue is airing on the most serious political commentary show on tv (panorama) and also been picked up by straw - who has a large pakistani contingent in his constituency. mango brits are finally starting to break out of the politically correct shackles too... changes are afoot

Lalmohan Ji,

Jack Straw never spoke anything remotely anti pakistani/ anti muslim,whilst he was in power. he is speaking today as a way of headline grabbing... Ed Miliband's trusted MP is a British Pakistani..... The reason he is coming out is the working class whites do not want to vote for a pakistani supporting politician of any poolitical party. That's why Warsi is a Baroness (via rajyasabha route) as no white will vote for her..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 Jan 2011 22:41

absoultely, for straw to change tacks is highly significant

Maram · Post by **Maram** » 09 Jan 2011 22:51

Lalmohan wrote:absoultely, for straw to change tacks is highly significant

I have lived and worked in the NorthWeat for over 12 years. The process of rift between white working class voters and British Pakistanis started in the aftermath of 7/7 in 05. Beeston(Leeds)/Bradford/Huddersfield/Oldham/Rochdale/Bury/Preston/Blackburn, Manchester & Liverpool have also seen a significant increase in racially motivated crime. You cannot as a local politician carry both the pakistani vote bank and the white working class vote. Mrs Duffy of the "bigoted" comment in may 2010 election was reflecting the popular sentiment on the streets of the northwest.

The English Defence League versus Unite against fascism fights from Birminham/Luton have now spread their tentacles here in the Northwest too!

My impression is the average Joe Bloggs now knows clear differences between Indians and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis & the politically correct phrase "South Asian Origin" does;nt wash on the street and at the door step.

Another point is, I have never know where exactly to place jack straw.. is left wing peacenik or a pragmatist???? To the best of my knowledge, he has never made any anti Indian comments as well.

I am a bit thick, could you eloborate why straw's comments now assume significance? I have read your posts in several threads on BR as a lurker, particularly Bojitiv news dhaaga! I am an unabashed fan of Lalmullah!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 Jan 2011 23:27

its the end of south-asian-ness and the split into Indians and Pakistanis where the latter is synonymous with all things bad
straw is a senior labour figure who has for the first time opened up the pakistani question, that is significant (labour might be rethinking...)
tories have already done that

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 10 Jan 2011 19:31

At last a mainstream journo who spells out the true reason for paki behaviour.
And she mentions that the word "ASIAN" is an insult to Hindu's/Sikh's.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... blame.html

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Jan 2011 19:38

interesting aside, jack straw is MP for blackburn
this place used to be a hotbed of the far right movement years ago
blackburn rovers - the football team, is possbly the largest commercial operation in the region
a club which is now owned by Venky's Industries from Pune...

wonder if jack is preparing to curry favour with his new constituents?!?!

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 10 Jan 2011 19:42

National inquiry launched into sex grooming gangs who target teenage girls http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... quiry.html

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 10 Jan 2011 19:51

'Not just White girls, Pak Muslim men sexually target Hindu and Sikh girls as well

Feeling emboldened by Straw's statement, UK's Hindu and Sikh organizations have also come in open and accused some Pakistani men of specifically targeting Hindu and Sikh girls. "This has been a serious concern for the last decade," said Hardeep Singh of Network of Sikh Organizations (NSO) while talking to TOI on Monday.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Jan 2011 23:25

India UK envoy 'assaulted wife'

Delhi's foreign ministry has said it is looking into claims that an Indian diplomat in Britain assaulted his wife.

The envoy claimed diplomatic immunity when he was questioned about the incident by Scotland Yard last month, reports the UK's Daily Mail newspaper.
He is alleged to have attacked his wife after a row at their home in an upmarket part of north-west London.
Britain's foreign office has asked the Indian High Commission in London to waive the immunity of the official.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 10 Jan 2011 23:31

These guys really still believe they have an empire....somewhere

Is India ready to refuse UK aid?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-develo ... -aid-india

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 00:46

They want to call it "Churchill empire" instead of the "British empire" since Churchill has made a mess of the post WWII world including a messed up partition of India
They are worried that what Churchill did between 1945-1950 by creating a containment of the soviet union and having TIbet by a communist China and new Jinnah Pakistan which is funded by the US aid even before the independence is going to create the most dangerous problem in the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/books ... wanted=all

Winston Churchill is remembered for leading Britain through her finest hour — but what if he also led the country through her most shameful one? What if, in addition to rousing a nation to save the world from the Nazis, he fought for a raw white supremacy and a concentration camp network of his own? This question burns through Richard Toye’s superb, unsettling new history, “Churchill’s Empire” — and is even seeping into the Oval Office.

He was told a simple story: the superior white man was conquering the primitive dark-skinned natives, and bringing them the benefits of civilization.

As soon as he could, Churchill charged off to take his part in “a lot of jolly little wars against barbarous peoples.” In the Swat valley, now part of Pakistan, he experienced, fleetingly, an instant of doubt. He realized that the local population was fighting back because of “the presence of British troops in lands the local people considered their own,” just as Britain would if she were invaded. But Churchill soon suppressed this thought, deciding instead that they were merely deranged jihadists whose violence was explained by a “strong aboriginal propensity to kill.”

Churchill was seen as standing at the most brutal and brutish end of the British imperialist spectrum. This was clearest in his attitude to India. When Gandhi began his campaign of peaceful resistance, Churchill raged that he “ought to be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back.” He later added: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.”

This hatred killed. In 1943, to give just one example, a famine broke out in Bengal, caused, as the Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen has proven, by British mismanagement. To the horror of many of his colleagues, Churchill raged that it was their own fault for “breeding like rabbits” and refused to offer any aid for months while hundreds of thousands died.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 11 Jan 2011 03:57

Similar views about Churchill here too-

Churchill’s Dark Side

But then the colonial government introduced separate electorates for Muslims—that is, every Muslim in British India was required to vote for a Muslim. The measure favored separatists, who could get elected by appealing to narrow sectarian sentiments.

So although Churchill was interested in exploiting diverse social fault lines, he concentrated on widening the Hindu-Muslim rift—which he regarded as “the bulwark of British rule in India.” When Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the leader of the Muslim League, called for a separate nation of Pakistan, Churchill hailed “the awakening of a new spirit of self-reliance and self-assertiveness” among India’s minorities. During the war, the British government encouraged the demand for Pakistan and propagandized along Islamist lines against Hindus.

In one of his tirades against Indians, he said they were “breeding like rabbits” anyway. On behalf of Indians, the War Cabinet ignored an offer of 100,000 tons of Burmese rice from freedom fighter Subhas Chandra Bose (who was allied with the Japanese), discouraged a gift of wheat from Canada, and turned down rice and wheat volunteered by the United States.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jan 2011 08:39

may this harami kutta be reborn as a dung beetle with a lifespan of 48,000 years.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 11 Jan 2011 09:06

Yeah and may our ancestors never have peace.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 11 Jan 2011 16:02

Guys Churchill is dead, and good riddance I would say.

There is nothing gained by whipping a dead horse or a dead man. Let us not associate contemporary Britain and Britishers with a long dead guy. If we allow our past to poison our present we will ruin it. We have to move on. We should not stay stuck in 1940-50s.

(Sorry forgot to add the word "not" in the original post.)

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2011 16:22

Christopher Sidor wrote:Guys Churchill is dead, and good riddance I would say.

There is nothing gained by whipping a dead horse or a dead man. Let us not associate contemporary Britain and Britishers with a long dead guy. If we allow our past to poison our present we will ruin it. We have to move on. We should stay stuck in 1940-50s.

Churchill did not act in his private capacity. He acted as the Prime Minister of Great Britain. He was democratically elected to Prime Ministership. So Great Britain answers for his actions.

Great Britain allowed a famine to kill 3 million Indians willfully. Great Britain would have to compensate India for that. I would start with a few hundred billion as compensation for the dead.

As far as I know, Great Britain is not a dead enough horse. There is still some way to go.

No great nation can afford to forgive such atrocities on it. I am saying we leave everything and jump onto this bandwagon of compensation, but no way should we forgive and forget on the cheap.

Otherwise one would a lot more Muli-in-Bunds coming to India and lecturing us on Kashmir!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2011 16:29

nine more arrested in northern england on child sex grooming and rape charges
all men from a certain community
all victims from another community, all underage

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 11 Jan 2011 16:40

RajeshA wrote:
Christopher Sidor wrote:Guys Churchill is dead, and good riddance I would say.

There is nothing gained by whipping a dead horse or a dead man. Let us not associate contemporary Britain and Britishers with a long dead guy. If we allow our past to poison our present we will ruin it. We have to move on. We should stay stuck in 1940-50s.
Churchill did not act in his private capacity. He acted as the Prime Minister of Great Britain. He was democratically elected to Prime Ministership. So Great Britain answers for his actions.

Great Britain allowed a famine to kill 3 million Indians willfully. Great Britain would have to compensate India for that. I would start with a few hundred billion as compensation for the dead.

As far as I know, Great Britain is not a dead enough horse. There is still some way to go.

No great nation can afford to forgive such atrocities on it. I am saying we leave everything and jump onto this bandwagon of compensation, but no way should we forgive and forget on the cheap.

Otherwise one would a lot more Muli-in-Bunds coming to India and lecturing us on Kashmir!

Rajesh one of the traits of greatness is "forgiveness".

To a degree a democratic society is responsible for its leaders actions, since its leaders are elected from the people, for the people or by the people. But the Great Britain of 1940-50s does not exist any more. It only survives in pages of history.

We do not heap a father's sins on his sons and daughters. Churchill's sins cannot be borne by today's Britishers. It is not fair nor justified.

Maram · Post by **Maram** » 11 Jan 2011 16:42

Lalmohan wrote:interesting aside, jack straw is MP for blackburn
this place used to be a hotbed of the far right movement years ago
blackburn rovers - the football team, is possbly the largest commercial operation in the region
a club which is now owned by Venky's Industries from Pune...

wonder if jack is preparing to curry favour with his new constituents?!?!

LalMohanji,

Trust you to make t he bigger picture in simpal langauge for us peasants! In the end all politics is local.... Messrs. Straw has quickly realised which side his bread is buttered!LOL! Go Venkys Go! Jai Blackburn... vijayeebhava! Yep! Got it...

jambudvipa · Post by **jambudvipa** » 11 Jan 2011 16:42

There is nothing gained by whipping a dead horse or a dead man. Let us not associate contemporary Britain and Britishers with a long dead guy. If we allow our past to poison our present we will ruin it. We have to move on. We should not stay stuck in 1940-50s.

What a piece of sanctimonious advice.Do you realise how insulting it is to the memories of the nearly 85 million indians who died in British made famines alone? I am not even talknig about those who were killed by outright butchery in wars,1857 etc etc.
What about the billions in cash and kind drained out of India?
No self respecting country/culture operates on the farce of "forgive and forget" and "let us move on".Why is this advice always directed at Indians? Maybe you should confront the British for some apology/compensation,whatever we are aiming for.
Has comtemprory UK even acknowledged its crimes let alone "atone" for it? the impression in the UK is that they "civilised" India.So I cannot fathom your piece of logic.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2011 17:12

Christopher Sidor wrote:
Christopher Sidor wrote:Guys Churchill is dead, and good riddance I would say.

There is nothing gained by whipping a dead horse or a dead man. Let us not associate contemporary Britain and Britishers with a long dead guy. If we allow our past to poison our present we will ruin it. We have to move on. We should stay stuck in 1940-50s.
RajeshA wrote:Churchill did not act in his private capacity. He acted as the Prime Minister of Great Britain. He was democratically elected to Prime Ministership. So Great Britain answers for his actions.

Great Britain allowed a famine to kill 3 million Indians willfully. Great Britain would have to compensate India for that. I would start with a few hundred billion as compensation for the dead.

As far as I know, Great Britain is not a dead enough horse. There is still some way to go.

No great nation can afford to forgive such atrocities on it. I am saying we leave everything and jump onto this bandwagon of compensation, but no way should we forgive and forget on the cheap.

Otherwise one would a lot more Muli-in-Bunds coming to India and lecturing us on Kashmir!
Rajesh one of the traits of greatness is "forgiveness".

A person may 'forgive'! A nation cannot! The near and dear of those who died at the hands of the British, they could have forgiven. But they also died without offering that forgiveness. Who are we to speak in their name? They may have relatives, descendants in India still living! Have they offered 'forgiveness'? Secondly how can one give forgiveness to somebody who still hasn't asked for it? Has the Queen even accepted the culpability of her kingdom in the deaths of Indians? The last time she and her husband went to Jallianwala Bagh, she did not even write a note of condolence!

Nobody has the right to forgive in somebody else's name! But every Indian national has the duty to demand compensation for the death of his compatriots.

Christopher Sidor wrote:To a degree a democratic society is responsible for its leaders actions, since its leaders are elected from the people, for the people or by the people. But the Great Britain of 1940-50s does not exist any more. It only survives in pages of history.

Was there some coup, I've never heard of? Or some revolution? Aren't the Windsors not the Kings and Queens anymore?

Christopher Sidor wrote:We do not heap a father's sins on his sons and daughters. Churchill's sins cannot be borne by today's Britishers. It is not fair nor justified.

If sons and daughters can partake of the inheritance of their father than why not his debts. If Britain identifies itself with their War Prime Minister and his achievements, then there is no reason, why they cannot also partake in his sins.

In any case, India is not concerned about Churchill, but rather about the crimes of the UK Government! Britain still stands, so they can pay up.

Otherwise one would soon hear from the Pakistani Government, they are not willing to pay up its debt, because any loans were taken by previous governments, and cannot be borne by the current government or the current generation of Pakis.
On Oct 03, 2010 Germany paid the last installment for the World War I Reparations.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Jan 2011 18:09

^^^RajeshA garu,

hajaar +1 only.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 11 Jan 2011 19:39

Churchill is considered as the greatest British PM. We should continue to flog, kick and spit on his corpse for the actions he had done against Indians, as long as he is revered by British. Let British dump him first before we even think of forgetting him.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Jan 2011 20:17

the british janata dumped him in the very first post war election onlee
and in between the two wars he was briefly a political outcast

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 11 Jan 2011 21:13

Churchill is considered the symbol of everything Britain stood for, a symbol of British 'character' including its genocidal policies.
He was everything that is wrong with imperialism as a political creed.

His enthusiasm for genocide against Indians was based on Christian hatred of everything that is non-Christian. It is reflected in many of the policies of the West against the rest.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Jan 2011 21:23

RajeshA wrote: A person may 'forgive'! A nation cannot!

x1000 RajeshA ji!

The present UK is enjoying the fruits of Churchill's actions such as UNSC seat and so on. So it has to pay for his wrongs too. Same goes to the Queen. The last time I remember India welcomed that Charles to inaugurate Commonwealth Games few months ago, even though he is not a king yet.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Jan 2011 21:25

RajeshA ji ki Jaya ho