Indian Interests

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2011 02:01

The INC upper circles are not ever seen in public. They are the real think tank.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Jan 2011 02:05

But you need to "give" only if you want something you cannot gain on your own. If India can take out Pak on its own, or at least POK, it does not need to "give". Or you create a situation by which you raise the stakes - like Mao did in NK or in Tibet and Arunachal. After that you can offer to climb down from that advantageous position in return for something "others" give.

The key lies in creating such situations. A policy followed by the USA and PRC.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Jan 2011 02:08

The INC think-tank does not exist. It is a dynamic and rather loose mass of a small number of favourites which frequently and suddenly changes composition and membership. Don't even think that there is only one such group. They also are in constant competition to humiliate or setback the other camps. The only constants are the "financiers" - the key connections to the "business world" who supply the mulah.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2011 02:12

Bji, Please think it over. Yes one may not agree what they do is think but they do exist.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 09 Jan 2011 02:24

Not in India though. I am aware of at least three main circles in desh. One being quite "liberal" and pro-H. Can't say more. Risky.

If you say it exists outside and is in touch, I agree. On the other hand, there are several miscalculations going on, and the reason they are happening is because the key people do not really think. Some of the advisors are doing good work, and are paving the way for reversals. Think of them as Sakunis. This is not how professional think-tanks work. Hence my comment. I will say no more!

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 09 Jan 2011 03:20

The crises of money

The current sense of moral crises, across a range of institutions, has led to a justifiable clamour for institutional reform and political accountability. There is no dearth of proposed solutions: everything from the creation of independent investigative agencies with more powers to political reform is on the table. But there is a little bit of wishful thinking in many of these proposals. Eisenhower once said that sometimes you can solve a big problem only by making it bigger; to tackle specific challenges you need to embed them in larger institutional changes. There is therefore something to the thought that we need to think of change more systematically.

But here are three paradoxes of institutional reform. First, in an era where even the smallest of reforms has become hostage to political division, rancour and monumental shortsightedness, how do we expect the very same political forces to join hands and bring about larger and more consequential changes? In an era when routine functioning has become difficult, we are expecting political miracles.

Second, institutional measures are not a sufficient condition for reform. The tragedy of our times is that the “independent” institutions, whose formal powers were unchallenged, like the Supreme Court, have begun to lose moral authority, unable to dispose of the smallest of internal issues with any degree of confidence. The big mystery of our time is not corruption; it is the breakdown of institutional proprieties at so many sites. And this crisis will only deepen. Just looking at the quality of recruitment in so many institutions, it would be hard not to conclude that this crisis may deepen. Why do we not even for a moment think that new institutions will not reproduce the pathologies of the current ones? We need to think of not just formal quick fixes, but how norms come to be embedded in institutions.

Third, there is a great clamour for what might be called punitive solutions. If only we could punish someone, corruption would disappear. Punishment is one important aspect of accountability. Absence of punishment can encourage impunity. But it is not the whole story. For one thing, it is not clear that societies that rely on purely punitive measures against corruption (including execution) have got rid of it. But there is another deeper truth. The need to resort to pervasive punishment, rather than creating new norms, can also be a signal of social failure, where nothing holds society together other than punishment.

The current sense of institutional disorientation is pervasive, and infects a vast range of institutions: politics, judiciary, civil service, media, academia, corporates, armed forces, the professions. It is almost as if an entire ruling class, and those who have recently joined its ranks, have lost their sense of purpose, a sense of what their institutions are supposed to be about, a sense of their identity and mission. The more pervasive danger we face in these institutions is not corruption, it is a sense of anomie, where fewer and fewer members of these professions can give an account of what they are supposed to be about, in a way that can legitimise them with the public.

The crisis of our institutions has to be located in broader cultural changes than have denuded them of meaning. Elements of these larger changes deserve attention. Indian literature has produced vivid pictures of oppression, humiliation and inequality; it is yet to produce a great portrait of the psychological dependencies that the new role of money can engender. Many of our corrupt politicians seem to be political versions of the Great Gatsby. To paraphrase Freud, money is not about money. It is always important, but in times of social change it signals three different things. First, it is the means and sign of social mobility. Access to state offices is still an important path to social mobility. Second, the power of money is intimately tied to a form of democratisation. No one can now be assured of their social standing based on rank; all claims to authority are uncertain, and access to material power becomes, in the end, the sole fixed point and source of uncontestable value. In the professions in particular, when old closed guilds break down, money has the allure of being an “objective” criterion by which to measure worth. It is strangely democratic, in that it does not depend on any authority or closed peer group for validation. But it is strangely corrosive, for the meaning of professional accomplishment gets transmuted. Third, a consequence of democratisation is not just that it opens paths to mobility; it makes those already privileged fear losing what they have. In a way “middle-class” anxieties have been enhanced rather than diminished by expanding opportunities. The desire of those who want to move up the ladder and the fears of those who might fall down are producing a strange alchemy. Despite our selves and our better instincts, money comes to be legitimised in ways that are unreasonable. What we are seeing on display is not just greed; it is a society struggling to find a measure of worth. How many of us have not been vulnerable to this struggle? No wonder every single institution seems unhinged.

Societies are not held together only by laws, formal institutions or punitive measures. They depend upon a complex set of social understandings about the norms and objectives of different institutions and social roles. How are these social understandings produced? We take it for granted that we know the answer to this question. But the blunt truth is that in societies in transition the answer to this question is very elusive. There is a lot of hope vested in the fact that we believe the next generation will not be tainted by the complicities of the current one. But this is more hope than accomplished fact. The next generation is truly extraordinary in its talent and aspiration. But equally, it also has a great sense of entitlement, which may take a pathological form. It can be invested entirely in personal advancement; and the quest for security can itself produce, as Montesquieu taught us, new forms of timidity. It is perhaps not an accident that, with one or two exceptions, you see no young politicians respond to this sense of crisis. Where is the generational equivalent of the Young Turks that the last set of corruption crises generated? While we pursue our institutional solutions with assiduity, we should be under no illusion that the equally important task of moral education and cultivation of an institutional sensibility will be a long haul. Let us hope our good luck with growth buys us the time to settle into new moral bearings.

At the end of the day, this change has to be led by the people and although, Bhanu Pratap is right in detecting that there is indeed no major outcry by any young turks on the issue and neither do we see a serious attempt at institutional reforms, what he misses, IMO is that this change will be grass roots led and we do see changes in districts and even some states, where governance, in spite of its fundamentally flawed structures of our state is producing results.

The change will be felt in New Delhi eventually but will take time.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 09 Jan 2011 14:43

brihaspati wrote:Western or almost every other non-SD based liberalism is based firmly on the principle of "being liberal" to only those "who share in the belief system". Tolerance in non-SD is conditional on submission to shared belief.

My attempt was to have a term for precisely what you state above...While what you state is close to reality, a large part of the Western population does not really understand this for themselves- since they have not expended thought to these concepts. Therefore, when this section comes across a media article about So-and-so liberal in the subcontinent, it does not occur to them that Mr So-and-so's liberality has been defined in a fairly restricted sense - and most likely does not include liberality towards the polytheistic / 'pagan' world. Many of these Westerners are not really prejudiced and can understand a point if logically put forward to them - but given short attention spans what is required is a term that effectively captures the thesis.

Similarly, subcontinentals themselves (since the intellectuals from the subcontinent take their cue from the West) have imbibed the same Western definitions...So, the extensive debate between AGupta and many others on TSP thread could have been avoided if both sides had recognized that while Salman's death as a liberal was tragic, he was ultimately a POB-liberal who would NOT have shown the same liberality to Hindus.

My term is aimed at both of these constituencies.

I do understand that the term is somewhat imprecise, given that for a Christian the likely progression to liberality would be (i) liberalism towards those Christians not strictly following dictates of the church (ii) liberalism towards Jews (ii) towards other people of the book? and finally may progress towards liberalism towards 'pagans'.

For a Muslim, it might be (i) liberalism towards those Muslims not following 'pure' version of Koran (ii) liberalism towards Christians as people of the book (iii) Jews and Hindus as the final frontier for any display of liberalism.

For Jews, who have been at the receiving end from both the Christian and Islamic world, this may not even be applicable..

However, by not having a single word / term that effectively captures the thesis at a high-level, Indics are losing out on the opportunity to convert others to their viewpoint.

JMT...

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Jan 2011 23:55

http://barbarindians.blogspot.com/

Admittedly history could have taken many different paths. Rahul's grandmother and former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi did not have to get killed in the hands of militants. Rahul's father "jeetenge ya loosenge" Rajivji would not have to leave his flying career and subsequently get killed by who we now know to be terrorists of another hue. But history took the course it had to and now we have Rahul snitching about "Hindu terrorists" to the US ambassador - according to leaked cables.

So, massaging and lazy explanations aside, the leaked cable confirms what we knew to be true for a while now - the Prince does not consider himself as one of us or more accurately, he does not consider us to be one of his. His vision for a future India solidly excludes us or at best reduces us to a body of cheap labor and clerical work. We have already seen from the Radia tapes how much collusion has taken place at the top. The exclusive officers' club has been built and its gate is being shut on our faces. If you want to pass through the strict face control, make sure you carry your Youth Congress card.

Remember Sonal Shah?

It is important to understand where the Prince derives his world view from. Obviously the biggest influence had to be the Queen, who after decades in India still remains ill at ease with Hindi. According to another leaked cable, the usually reticent and aloof Queen poured her heart out to California first lady Maria Shriver to such an extent that they titled the cable - "A garrulous Sonia Gandhi opens up to Maria Shriver". So here we have Italian Mama gabbing to her Germanic cousin. History may not repeat itself but it sure does flirt with memory.

In her conversation Sonia clearly comes off as a person on a civilizing mission. But we digress.

Sonal Shah was the Indian American woman who made news for becoming one of the first persons of South Asian extract to be made part of President Obama's transition team. Soon she was to find out blood is thicker than water. We all know who was behind the ghastly, nefarious and apocryphal campaign against Sonal Shah, as also against The Times of India reporter Balakrishna.

The idea is very simple and alluring. The vast millions of soft office jobs that so many of us covet (and upon landing such a job think the world of ourselves) - you can easily take out a large part of competition in one fell sweep. All you need to do is create a demand for an absurd and nearly impossible to prove moral requirement. Then either you are the right color (figuratively speaking), or you must show the Youth Congress card.

The worldly contact of the Prince largely comprise of the people behind that campaign. What might they be telling the Prince?

Squeezing the Free Agent voters:

Like most political parties in the World, the Congress party realizes the mortal danger "free agent" voters present to them. The first most visible of these were rather absurdly the so called NRIs. Congress and its minions went hammer and tongs at them. Old issues of The Outlook magazine still carries those articles - they provide good comic relief. The second source of free agent voters are produced by the Education system. Having received a drubbing once from the NDA dispensation, UPA realized the dire need to squeeze these obstinate types. They launched a multi-pronged approach.

- The first consists of completely destroying the primary education sector so that - (a) Missionary schools flourish (b) Changing the curriculum so that the "right" values are inculcated from an early age. The RTE act was designed to bring about this change.

- The second consists of destroying the Entrance test based system and gradually replacing it with a strong secular filter such as an interview. Efforts are on in this area but currently suspended due to the unfortunate portfolio reallocation due to the 2G scam.

- The third is to formally introduce religious quotas in education. Already we have minority institutions. Conversion, where possible, is underway - for instance a century old Agricultural institute suddenly got renamed and its students even took out a religious procession!

Already top posts in Government and bureaucracy are being strictly face controlled (eg CVC). In the Indian Administrative Services interviews for instance, the only right answer to "who was the all time great ruler of India" - is Akbar the great.

Free agent voter reduction program, aside from achieving the demographic rengineering goals has the extra advantage - 2G, CWG etc are much easier to pull. Everything stays in one happy extended family.

On ground tactical aspects and International intrigue:

The biggest obstacle to pushing through special privileges for the community proved to be raw data. There was no way to massage this to manufacture a "deprived" victim status for the community. Call it Sachar envy. Soon this was largely mitigated - large number of poor people, like cattle was head counted and factored into stats. Even this proved inadequate. This is why the Kandhamal incident was engineered. Now we have a new victim category with refugees and dead people to show for! Take that, Kashmiri Pandits!

Then of course we always have the UN route - if you do not let us rule, we will complain to the UN. Already the High Court in Gujarat has taken strong exception to certain Human Rights groups making unwarranted complains to the UN. The leaked cable proves this strategy can be and will be extended if UPA loses a national poll in the future.

In other words, in one sense, Rahul Gandhi might have simply been preparing a hedge against future election defeat when a quasi-legal internationally supported maneuver could still help retain power.

In Conclusion

If the above sounds too conspiratorial to you, we have two points to make. First, just because you can not see a glacier move does not mean it is not moving. The signs are too ominous to ignore. Second, when Digvijay Singh with his wild conspiracy theories becomes the leading mentor of India's future PM and consequently his conspiracy theories are all but tacitly approved by the High Command, it is no longer a conspiracy theory. The fact that they sanction such views is reason enough for alarm and caution.

Secular Hindus must make a hard call at this juncture. If they do not want to end up like Buddhists in South Korea or Hong Kong, the time to act has arrived. A few generations later it might be too late. Remember that "I am not very religious" "I am an atheist" etc. cuts mustard only with Hindus.

We refuse to succumb to fashionable concepts. We refuse to accept ANY absurd moral requirement dictated to us by people with vested interests or otherwise hostile to us. We reserve the right to act as we please within the Indian legal and constitutional framework and ... TO HELL WITH YOUR SECULARISM!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jan 2011 04:17

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/repor ... ts_1492167
'Revival of Sanskrit will raise India to new heights'

We need to be proficient in Sanskrit to access ancient Indian wisdom, which holds the answers to today’s problems. This language is key to India’s success in all fields,” said scientists, management experts, technologists, at the Vijnana Sammelanam at the World Samskrit Book Fair.“Scholar Charaka had long said all happiness is rooted in good science and science was well-developed in India and China before it was officially acknowledged by the West,” said professor Roddam Narashima, scientist in aerospace and atmospheric phenomenon.
“India is not a rags-to-riches story, but merely a nation striking back to acquire its place in the world. It was always a performing civilisation until the mid-19th century when its economy was destroyed,” said writer S Gurumurthy.“Revival of Sanskrit will help India rise to the top,” he added. Professor B Mahadevan said Sanskrit texts provide solutions to many problems that management experts grapple with. “We need inspirational leadership and there are many instances in literature that dwell on this topic. We need to get into Sanskrit to create a new world order, to be sustainableand inspirational, he said.The way to popularise the language is to create content that will appeal to the youth, to use modern fora like blogs and podcasts to take information expressed in the language to the end-user,” said Aruna Ramarathnam, a technology enthusiast. Manu Baligar, director of Kannada and Culture department, announced that Kannada books useful to youngsters would be translated to Sanskrit.On the first day of the three-day fair, books worth `1 crore were sold. At the Pustaka Parishe, visitors can pick up a book free of cost and even donate books. Over 16,000 books were given away on Friday, the first day of the fair. About 25,000 Bhagavad Gitas were also sold. The 154 stalls are offering discounts and books are being sold by the sackfuls, said organisers. Over 8,000 people from 500 districts, 24 states are attending.Among the attendees are 43 people from Jiree, a ‘Sanskrit village’ in Madhya Pradesh

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 10 Jan 2011 16:36

Sardar Patel vs Nehru

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Jan 2011 00:16

Massive ethnic cleansing going on with Hindu Rabhas fleeing Meghalaya. They are being chased out by the christian Garo tribes. Over 30,000 have fled. No news in the media

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jan 2011 00:39

So what is the basis of your claim then?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Jan 2011 00:59

There was news on ethnic cleansing without indication of the religious undertone (not news in India)

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiap ... index.html

Officials: Thousands flee tribal violence in northeast India

Speak to the people in the North East and youo will find out that the ethnic Rabhas are being booted out by the converted Garos. The Garos have advanced weapons as well.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 11 Jan 2011 01:00

^^^^,
this could be the news
Can Central forces stop violence in North-East?

Following the demand of extra military forces, Central government on Jan 10 finally send central troops in Assam-Meghalaya border which has been seeing violent ethnic clashes for 10 days.
The death toll following clashed between the ethnic groups, Garo and Rabha, mounted to nine and more than 30,000 people became homeless.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Jan 2011 01:05

^^^ Over 300 rabha villages have been torched and the 30,000 are rabha. Upon speaking with people, skirmishes between the two tribes are due to religious differences. There is a lot of pressure on the rabha to convert.
Who gave the Garo AK 47's?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jan 2011 01:39

Let us try to be as objective as possible please. The fighting is by both sides, and both sides have been displaced, seemingly a total of 50,000 now (a google search indicates). There is a Rabha Security Force which does not appear helpless.

Home Ministry suspects outside involvement in instigating the violence.

The real picture will come out in about a week as to who and what started this round. Right now the allegation is that the Rabha attacked a Garo wedding ceremony procession. Remains to be seen if that is the case.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 11 Jan 2011 05:19

Good read and nice article, very pertinent and ominous.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?269931

Analyse Parliament, and a disturbing fact emerges: India is going back to monarchy {not monarchy but loot by the very worst and the most incompetent possible dynasties}
Patrick French

Going by present trends, more than 100 extra hereditary women MPs might be elected. This was a conservative estimate: if prominent MPs like Sonia Gandhi were to run in unreserved seats, and male MPs who were obliged to step down were to hand over their seats to their wives or daughters, the number of hereditary women MPs in the next Lok Sabha could cross 150.

The Indian republic was founded on the truth that power should not be handed over by the colonial rulers to the princes. India’s next general election was likely to return not a Lok Sabha, a house of the people, but a Vansh Sabha, a house of dynasty. Nehru, Patel, V.P. Menon and others went to enormous lengths to make sure heredity was knocked aside as a criterion for rule, and to ensure the 554 princely states were absorbed into a modern and democratic nation. The Indian Constitution was based on the principle that sovereignty was derived from the people.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 11 Jan 2011 07:08

JwalaMukhi: Good link. I wanted to add this link too, which documents the base data for the above article. http://www.theindiasite.com/

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 08:46

JwalaMukhi wrote:Good read and nice article, very pertinent and ominous.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?269931
Analyse Parliament, and a disturbing fact emerges: India is going back to monarchy

Why is a foreigner analyzing Indian elected officials. Such reports must be done by Indians who are part of the system and have social knowledge.
This is more of a false reporting from an outsider who does not have a stake in the system,

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 11 Jan 2011 09:09

Acharya wrote:
JwalaMukhi wrote:Good read and nice article, very pertinent and ominous.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?269931
Analyse Parliament, and a disturbing fact emerges: India is going back to monarchy
Why is a foreigner analyzing Indian elected officials. Such reports must be done by Indians who are part of the system and have social knowledge.
This is more of a false reporting from an outsider who does not have a stake in the system,

Acharya, who will do such a report and which media will publish it? The so called secular media will definitely not, and it is not like they can target the smaller regional parties, as everyone will then ask about India's first dynasty. People who follow politics will know that parties give tickets to kins of their leaders, and always comes out during every ticket distribution. However, no one had compiled all those information like the report above as, and I feel it is deliberate

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2011 10:47

Jan 11th is Lal Bahadur Shastri jayanti. He gave us our first real victory against TSP.
Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lal_Bahadur_Shastri

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Jan 2011 13:29

Tx Ramanna for remembering that great hero of India.
Little Lal Bahadur was in truth a huge giant of a man,who checkmated Pak in '65.His untimely death was a national tragedy-but it brought forth Indira who severed Pak into two in '71,just 6 years later.We await the person who will complete the task of reducing Pak 's destructive capacity to that of a eunuch.Perhaps the individuals are to be found within Pak itself!

Some sobering thoughts below:

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=4782782

Indian Railways headed for bankruptcy
New Delhi: The Indian Railways’ great “turnaround story”, which was making waves in business schools till a few months back, now appears headed towards an ignominious end. A sharp decline in earnings and a serious escalation in expenditures are threatening to push India’s transport behemoth to near-bankruptcy. Insiders say that so grave is the financial situation that the Railways may not be left with enough funds this year to appropriate money into two critical reserves that fund its purchase of new assets and improvements in passenger amenities — the Capital Fund and the Development Fund.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 11 Jan 2011 18:40

Acharya wrote: Why is a foreigner analyzing Indian elected officials. Such reports must be done by Indians who are part of the system and have social knowledge.
This is more of a false reporting from an outsider who does not have a stake in the system,

Understand why a foreigner is analyzing part. But why so much umbrage shown for mere collation of data points, when even a minisicule amount of umbrage is not exhibited when foreigner makes it to top post based on qualifications that are questionable? So although the outrage on reporting by a foreigner is easy to see, where is the outrage on foreigners (who have less than zero social knowledge) occupying high table?

It will be interesting to see an analysis on the data presented, by Indians who are part of the system and have social knowledge. So, how would you analyze the data presented? Asking without malice. Lot of friendly fires going on these days on in many threads.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 11 Jan 2011 20:13

^^Atleast a foreigner is writing something that none of our indigenous journalists had guts to write.India is fast becoming not only a monarchy but also a kleptocracy which is defined by corruption and crony capitalism.Until unless India goes for complete reforms as far as its politics and bureaucracy is concerned the future might not be so bright atleast in medium term.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 21:43

darshhan wrote:^^Atleast a foreigner is writing something that none of our indigenous journalists had guts to write.India is fast becoming not only a monarchy but also a kleptocracy which is defined by corruption and crony capitalism.Until unless India goes for complete reforms as far as its politics and bureaucracy is concerned the future might not be so bright atleast in medium term.

Foreigner owns the Indian media , foreigner has deep influence inside Indian academic/intellectual circles, foreigner has deep influence inside Indian political system and now this.
Foreigner also has economic interest inside India.
Do you get the pattern

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Jan 2011 00:05

An interesting view about the Left and the Church - and a potential political tussle over wealth:
http://www.countercurrents.org/plathottam090111.htm

Great political acumen is not required to conclude that, if ever the congress party becomes capable of ruling alone, the first act of theirs would probably be to pass the Church Act. Because the politically miraculous merger of the two Kerala Congress groups is an indication of the mental shock that the proposed Church Act has produced in the bishops. It has also been one of the main inspiration for the merger. Two years ago a member of the legislative assembly had raised the question whether the Church Act would be passed into law. This, even if everyone forgets, will not be forgotten by church authorities. The Congress is aware that this merged alliance will take deep roots in the society, which cannot be then controlled by any one at all. It is with more trepidation than the Communists, that the congress views the scenario of Kerala Congress growing under the wings of each bishop. The intelligentsia in the Congress circles have also evaluated that the only solution to the growth of Kerala Congress, which has the reputation for growing through splits, is the Church Act.
[...]
The communist movement has the destiny of being established to root out the poisonous teeth of all dictatorships. [Stalin? Mao?] Therefore is it necessary that they should still be afraid of falling into hot water as they did during the liberation struggle? The old circumstances do not exist any more. Other communities are no match for the games of the bishops to capture benefits and are neglected. They stand with an inferiority complex before the financial splendour and growing power of influence of the Church.
[...]
It is the impure blood of pomp and authority that flows through the veins of church authorities. This impurity can be let out through this small operation. With that they will cease to be dangerous. They will also put an end to handling undeserved position and their temptation to evil will be uprooted.
[...]
The events at Narrakkal, running away of Bishop Thattunkal taking with him crores of rupees of church funds, to foreign lands, Abhaya case, the wayward life style of some priests, unnatural deaths of nuns that continue like a serialised story, deaths of seminarians and catechism students, the expose by Sister Jasmy and Fr. Shibu - all these have made them a laughing stock in society. Those who were spokesmen before the media have been withdrawn and new ‘boys' are replacing them.

So far there were lay organizations fostered by the bishops. But today there are organizations like the Joint Christian Council which are capable of asking searching and relevant questions. The Christian community including the non-resident Indians in America and Gulf-nations look forward to their activities with considerable enthusiasm. Nevertheless no one need to entertain hopes that the aggressive tendencies of church authorities can be contained without the might of law. It is the ‘black hole' that will swallow anything and everything that comes towards them.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 12 Jan 2011 02:35

Link

Shekhar Gupta: And don’t forget Sonia Gandhi, your very close friend now. We only see pictures of the two of you smiling.

Sushma Swaraj: That’s my duty towards democracy. I’m leader of the Opposition, she is chairperson of the ruling alliance. And I think it’s the beauty of Indian democracy that in the opposition we are not enemies. We are only ideologically opposed to each other. There is opposition on policies, but we are not enemies.

Shekhar Gupta: Has she changed over the years?

Sushma Swaraj: In personal relationships, yes. Earlier, she was very quiet, she never used to speak, she very rarely smiled and she was not interactive. Now she interacts, now she has opened up.

Shekhar Gupta: Let me take you back to 2004. Go back to your anger—you threatened to shave off your head if she became PM. Do you think it was misplaced? Has that changed?

Sushma Swaraj: No, not at all. It was my duty towards my country. And let me tell you that today if she (Sonia) claims that post, I will do the same thing. This is my duty towards democracy. ( AoA )

Shekhar Gupta: But what is the difference between being that and being chairperson of the UPA? She is so powerful, she is more powerful than the PM.

Sushma Swaraj: Maybe, but being Prime Minister is totally different, constitutionally or officially. I will never accept a foreigner as Prime Minister of the country. She may be the chairperson of the ruling alliance, she may be the chairperson of the Congress, that is their matter. A party chooses whoever as its president, it is for the Congressmen to decide. But the Prime Minister of the country, Indians must decide. It hurts my sensibilities. It hurts the sensibilities of Indians.

Shekhar Gupta: So that has not changed?

Sushma Swaraj: That has not changed and that will not change.

Shekhar Gupta: It doesn’t look like that when you see your pictures now.

Sushma Swaraj: No, that is what I am saying. That was my duty towards this country and even today if the same thing is repeated, I will repeat the same vows. But as my duty towards democracy, I will always give her respect and I remind you even during the Bellary election...I didn’t speak a single word against her as a person. I always said main ek videshi ko pradhan mantri nahin dekh sakti. Meri ladai wahi thi. 2004 main bhi meri ladai wahi thi. (I always said that I cannot see a foreigner becoming the Prime Minister of India).

Shekhar Gupta: The PAC is getting more empowered. So, it’s not that you haven’t gained. So can you declare victory at sometime, short of a JPC?

Sushma Swaraj: No, not short of a JPC, because one issue remains unanswered. All these investigations are into frauds but after the Nira Radia tapes disclosures, there is a question mark on the very existence of democracy in India. The corporates’ interference in Indian polity is to this extent that all the four pillars of democracy are under cloud—legislature, judiciary, executive and press. I don’t know whether you have listened to those tapes or not, I have listened to those tapes. Corporates decide how a ministry will be formed, corporates decide which portfolio will be given to whom.

Shekhar Gupta: Are you optimistic that there will be a session?

Sushma Swaraj: I am always optimistic. For example, in this meeting with Meira Kumarji, Pranabda (Pranab Mukherjee) was saying that a JPC is an ineffective body, it doesn’t do much. Even its earlier recommendations, nobody saw and nobody implemented them. I joked, agar itni ineffective hai toh de kyon nahin dete hain aap (If it’s so ineffective, why don’t you give it)? So he asked, faydaa kya hai. What is the gain? I said, there is one gain, Parliament will continue. He had a hearty laugh and then said, ‘This is a matchless answer, I can’t match this’.

Shekhar Gupta: But now you propose a JPC that looks into the larger picture of systemic reform?

Sushma Swaraj: Not now, right from the word go.

Shekhar Gupta: Before we conclude, the big challenge lately has been Naxalites and the country is in some way intellectually very polarised. Where do you stand now, particularly after Binayak Sen’s case?

Sushma Swaraj: See, I don’t know whether you see my tweets or not. But the very day this judgment was pronounced, I tweeted, ‘violence against the state, massacre of innocent policemen and civilians and propagating this is certainly treason’. I’m of the firm opinion that such activities have to be curbed and have to be condemned. The problem is that there is a dilemma in the government. The PMO and the NAC (National Advisory Council) are at loggerheads on this question.

Shekhar Gupta: I thought the government and the Opposition were at loggerheads.

Sushma Swaraj: The government and the Opposition are not at loggerheads on this question but on this question of Naxalism, there are vast differences of opinion between members of the NAC and people close to the PMO. For example, the Home Minister wants to deal with the situation with a tough hand. We have always supported him in that. But have you seen the statements made by NAC members? They remind us of the colonial Raj.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2011 02:50

Philip wrote:Tx Ramanna for remembering that great hero of India.
Little Lal Bahadur was in truth a huge giant of a man,who checkmated Pak in '65.His untimely death was a national tragedy-but it brought forth Indira who severed Pak into two in '71,just 6 years later.We await the person who will complete the task of reducing Pak 's destructive capacity to that of a eunuch.Perhaps the individuals are to be found within Pak itself!

Some sobering thoughts below:

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=4782782

Indian Railways headed for bankruptcy
New Delhi: The Indian Railways’ great “turnaround story”, which was making waves in business schools till a few months back, now appears headed towards an ignominious end. A sharp decline in earnings and a serious escalation in expenditures are threatening to push India’s transport behemoth to near-bankruptcy. Insiders say that so grave is the financial situation that the Railways may not be left with enough funds this year to appropriate money into two critical reserves that fund its purchase of new assets and improvements in passenger amenities — the Capital Fund and the Development Fund.

Philip, IMHO its a report to keep Mamata Bannerji in check. The sudden revelation of losses, while supposed profit under Laloo would reflect on her managerial skills. So how will she manage WB if she become CM?

Again its INC pre-emptive strike. I think its one who would be PM leaking this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2011 02:57

Very important news. I hope it comes in Hindi, telugu and other languages.

Ponyin Selvan to be on celluloid

I'll go to the first day of the film.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Jan 2011 03:15

I have a feeling that they will be dubbed if the expected cost is Rs 200 cr to make that film. Tamil market is not that big.

One more ticket for me

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jan 2011 03:45

Montek push mirrors divide

The Prime Minister has again expressed a desire to bring Montek Singh Ahluwalia into the cabinet, a Congress insider said. The proposal reflects the differences between the government and the party, which so far has had the support of Sonia Gandhi.

Several Congress leaders see the Planning Commission deputy chairman as “pro-US and pro-reforms” and feel that he is indifferent to the Congress’s left-of-centre ideology.
...
...
If the party agrees to have Montek in the government, he is likely to be considered for the finance ministry, now held by Pranab Mukherjee.

Party sources said the Prime Minister was planning to shift Mukherjee to home affairs. Both the party and Singh favour P. Chidambaram’s exit from the home ministry.
...
...
The Prime Minister’s plan to overhaul the infrastructure-related ministries, too, could emerge as a point of conflict because that would entail shuffling senior Congress leaders around.

The country may get a new human resource development minister with Kapil Sibal transferred to telecom, and efforts are on to bring a more dynamic minister into the foreign office.
...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2011 04:05

Interesting chess moves.
This is classic three person game. Two gang up to beat the third. And then its a two person game. And one of them gets accidented.
Julius Caeser played it to perfection.

--------
On the other hand knowing Motek's pro US preferences this shows how weak the 2gs have become that they need to take in another m*le. Maybe this is price to get them out of the 2G scam?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Jan 2011 07:58

MMS's Montek preferece was a very long time demand. Rumor mills say that he may be even a good successor to MMS in "all aspects" of 21st century India. INC party wants to put INC to left of center but if Montek really progresses to FM then it is vindication of MMS's sheer power inside INC. It is a full circle and that really tells 2Gs are given a role to be power center and be vote catchers and not even try to do anything else.

PC's removal from home and finance will be a huge snub if that happens. I doubt it as he has a lot up his sleeve that could damage party.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 12 Jan 2011 08:05

Swamy asks govt to give facts on alleged right-wing terror

He claimed that terror accused Swami Aseemananda's alleged confession appears to be a "mirror image" of the confession made by SIMI activist Safdar Nagori, "who too while in custody in 2008, had owned responsibility for the Samjhauta Express bombing."

"The UPA government should, therefore, make it clear which confession they are now accepting and which is the one they are rejecting........The nation must know all the facts. We cannot allow the government to enable Pakistan to make propaganda about Hindu terror without full transparency on the issue," he added.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 12 Jan 2011 18:36

Roundtable: Hinduism Studies in America with a Focus on Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus: An Alternative History," 2009 (M. Lal Ig Goel,
University of West Florida)

http://www.asian-studies.org/Conference ... 37-380.htm

Prof . Kalyanaraman's draft ppt slides on some of the inaccuracies in the book.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/69013816/We ... cholarship

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 12 Jan 2011 19:34

Political dynasties important: Rahul Gandhi

VARANASI: Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi, whose father, grandmother and great grandfather were all prime ministers, told Banaras Hindu University (BHU) students on Monday that political dynasties are important in India.

Do Indians see this hidden tyranny? and realize what they are bringing upon themselves?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2011 19:43

Venkarl,
I always wondered at how in ancient India there a was a transition from the monarchies in the epic age to the mahajanapadas for over a thousand years and then the new Imperial age came about. The wonder was answered in HemaChandra Ray-Choudhary's (our RAYC's uncle) book "India from Parikshit to later Guptas". Basically as recounted in the book from the Puranas and Jain traditions, when the dynasties became DIE Nastys the people just abolished them and constitituted the 16 Mahajanpadas.

So India had its own French revolutions time and time again.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 12 Jan 2011 20:02

Ramana Garu...I think I don't have the required knowledge to fully understand your post. Google did not help me on RayC's book, can you?

Added Later: Nevermind, I found it

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Jan 2011 02:57

ramana wrote:Venkarl,
I always wondered at how in ancient India there a was a transition from the monarchies in the epic age to the mahajanapadas for over a thousand years and then the new Imperial age came about. The wonder was answered in HemaChandra Ray-Choudhary's (our RAYC's uncle) book "India from Parikshit to later Guptas". Basically as recounted in the book from the Puranas and Jain traditions, when the dynasties became DIE Nastys the people just abolished them and constitituted the 16 Mahajanpadas.

So India had its own French revolutions time and time again.

The prajas did frequent "dimbas" or rebellions. Many instances are known even when the monarchies were restored - in the Magadhan dynasties. On the other hand, the sresthis perhaps had a role to play in the early encouragement to formation of monarchies - perhaps they wanted a system that would bring large areas under control and not subject to popular controls. When later the monarchs grew too demanding the merchant class veered towards the Buddhist Sangha as a means of bypassing the monarchical arbitrariness but continue to use the trade networks.

The semi-autonomous status of the Sangha, their increasingly urban base and prosperity and their growing dependence or identification with international trading interests - obviously isolated them from the rural populations. Monarchies began to revive from relatively obscure origins - (and perhaps therefore of more "commoner" non-old-aristocracy roots than later made out to be) perhaps because of this antagonism to the foreign-trade-urban-Sangha identity in the post Kushana period.

Increasing Nilkantha temples in the countryside of Sindh kingdom coincides with abandoned Sanghas, and rise of "Brahmin" dynasty with retreat of the previous Buddhist Rai power - which mutated into powerful trading interests controlled from urban centres by prominent Buddhist functionaries, and who were at the forefront of collaborating with the Islamic armies of Qasim.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Jan 2011 03:51

Interesting Tit bits about Indian influence
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/2 ... attuta.htm

As soon as he was settled in Mogadishu, the sultan sent him two small welcoming gifts: a plate of betel leaves and areca nuts, and a vial of Damascus rosewater. The first was the ritual welcoming gift of India, a custom that had spread to East Africa, and the rosewater from Damascus was to rinse his hands—another indication of far-flung commercial contact. The ceremonial meal that followed makes a similar, if more elaborate, point:
They eat rice cooked with ghee, which is served on a large wooden platter. On top they set dishes of kushan. These are relishes, composed of chicken, meat, fish and vegetables. In one dish they serve green bananas in fresh milk, in another yogurt with pickled lemon, bunches of pepper pickled in vinegar and salt, green ginger and mangoes. These are like apples, but with a pit. They are very sweet when ripe, but when immature are acid like lemons; they pickle the unripe mangoes in vinegar. They eat a mouthful of rice, then some of the salted and pickled relishes.
The Indian influence on this meal is obvious, but it has been adapted to local tastes. The rice and pepper would have been imported, but the mangoes were probably now grown locally, as was another Indian fruit, the jammun or jambul (Eugenia jambolana, java plum), which he encountered in Mombasa. Bananas also came to East Africa from India, perhaps as early as the 10th century. Although Ibn Battuta does not mention it, the meal was almost certainly served in Chinese bowls, much prized all along the East African coast. Special niches were built into the walls of dwellings in order to display the finer pieces.

To discourage casual visitors, each person wanting to enter India had to sign a statement in front of a notary swearing that he would remain forever. He also had to bring a substantial gift for the sultan—there were agents at the border who would advance money to travelers for this purpose—in order to demonstrate the seriousness of the immigrant’s intentions; when he presented his gifts in Delhi, the newcomer would receive many times their value in reciprocal gifts from the sultan. This exchange cemented a bond with tacitly understood mutual obligations.Ibn Battuta was advanced money by an Iraqi merchant from Tikrit and bought 30 horses and a camel-load of arrows. These were acceptable gifts for a ruler engaged in enlarging his domains, and Ibn Battuta’s prudent investment was rewarded with the post of chief jurist (qadi) of Delhi at an annual salary of 12,000 dirhams—the revenues of two villages—and a lump-sum sweetener of 12,000 dinars. Overnight, the obscure Moroccan law student became a rich man.Two years later, famine broke out in the sultan’s territories and lasted for seven years, leading to widespread rebellion. Ibn Battuta saw that the Delhi sultanate was unraveling and applied for permission to make the pilgrimage to Makkah, the only politic way of leaving the sultan’s service. At the last minute, the sultan asked him instead to lead 15 Chinese envoys and several shiploads of gifts to the Mongol Yuan emperor Toghon Temur. Ibn Battuta leapt at the chance for a graceful exit from a difficult situation combined with the opportunity to visit a new country.The official delegation set out in the late summer of 1341 for the port of Cambay. It was attacked on the way by Hindu marauders, showing Muhammad Shah’s tenous hold on the countryside. Ibn Battuta was captured, escaped and rejoined his party. In Cambay he found a port whose wealth was based on the export of the finest cotton textiles in India, produced in the villages of Gujarat.