The surprising thing is that the Maoists have allowed it to take place.Murugan wrote:Nepal Celebrates SV's Birth Anniversary in a Big Way
http://www.sify.com/news/vivekananda-mo ... jihgf.html
Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Murugan ji,
Thanks for posting !
Btw, I dont think there's any genuine recording of Swamiji's speech.
Thanks for posting !
Btw, I dont think there's any genuine recording of Swamiji's speech.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
The above is genuine. Recorded at Chicago. No recordings are available for speeches delivered elsewhere. There exists a gramophone record with maharaja of mysore of some speeches delivered by SV in india.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
http://stockmarkettoday.in/2011/01/13/r ... ew-trains/
Swami Vivekananda Express Special Exhibition Train
Flagging off a special exhibition train Vivekananda Express on the 150th anniversary of Swami Vivekananda, Railway Minister said, the train will showcase the life and philosophy of the great spiritual leader. It will cover important stations taking the message of religious harmony and unity of the masses.
Swami Vivekananda Express Special Exhibition Train
Flagging off a special exhibition train Vivekananda Express on the 150th anniversary of Swami Vivekananda, Railway Minister said, the train will showcase the life and philosophy of the great spiritual leader. It will cover important stations taking the message of religious harmony and unity of the masses.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
What is the reason that SV is showcased by GOI? What is it that makes SV "politically safe" and "correct" so that INC government decides to push forward his name?
Nothing against SV, but the eagerness of GOI to showcase him makes one curious... How many trains and awards named after Dayanand Saraswati, Swami Shraddhanand, Aravinda Ghosh and few others.
Nothing against SV, but the eagerness of GOI to showcase him makes one curious... How many trains and awards named after Dayanand Saraswati, Swami Shraddhanand, Aravinda Ghosh and few others.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
I did some digging few years back. It turned out that the popularly circulated recording of Swamiji turned out to be fake - there were differences in some lines used in the audio and the actual text of Swamiji's speech. I havent listened to the link you provided yet but I suspect its that same one where a lady introduces before SV starts. (no joo toob in work place.Murugan wrote:The above is genuine. Recorded at Chicago. No recordings are available for speeches delivered elsewhere. There exists a gramophone record with maharaja of mysore of some speeches delivered by SV in india.
) I'd be very grateful if you can provide any links to Mysore Maharaja's records. Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
May be its the sucking-up-to-white-man-ism ? Because SV is an accomplished icon in the eyes of the white man, GOI feels its ok to recognize Him, whereas any other thing related to Hinduism would be "backward" and "pagan" ?vilayat wrote:What is the reason that SV is showcased by GOI? What is it that makes SV "politically safe" and "correct" so that INC government decides to push forward his name?
Nothing against SV, but the eagerness of GOI to showcase him makes one curious... How many trains and awards named after Dayanand Saraswati, Swami Shraddhanand, Aravinda Ghosh and few others.
--
On a different note, I just paid closer attention to govt of TN's seal. There's a temple !!! Fortunately the so called "rationalists" havent faqd this one up. Arrah be praijed.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Naren
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/09/05/st ... 762200.htm
dated article of 2007
Union Minister of State for Commerce Jairam Ramesh has joined the Ramakrishna Mission’s long-running quest to trace the recordings of Sri Ramakrishna’s favourite disciple.
Mr. Ramesh said here that he was following up on a letter written to Srikantadatta Narasimharaja Wadeyar, the scion of the Wadeyar family, on the subject about a year ago.
The Minister stressed that he was doing this in his personal capacity and out of his reverence for Swami Vivekananda.
According to sound engineers and music restorers, time is running out. Unless found soon, they may be lost for ever.
Krisharajendra Wadeyar, a great granduncle of Srikantadatta, a friend of Swami Vivekananda, was a music collector and is believed to have built up a major personal archive. Recordings are believed to have been made during Swami Vivekananda’s visit to the West when he also met Thomas Alva Edison, the inventor.
Swami Vivekananda’s short but extremely active and fruitful life came to an end in 1902. He was born in 1863. He addressed the Chicago Parliament of Religions in 1893, and gave many discourses on Vedanta in the West thereafter. In the early days, recordings were made on a cylindrical pole and they were played on a “graphophone.”
If the recordings are found now, they will have to be reformated to suit current technology.
But disciples of one of the greatest monks and followers of the Order will without doubt be eager to hear even a broken syllable that can be thus recovered.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/09/05/st ... 762200.htm
dated article of 2007
Union Minister of State for Commerce Jairam Ramesh has joined the Ramakrishna Mission’s long-running quest to trace the recordings of Sri Ramakrishna’s favourite disciple.
Mr. Ramesh said here that he was following up on a letter written to Srikantadatta Narasimharaja Wadeyar, the scion of the Wadeyar family, on the subject about a year ago.
The Minister stressed that he was doing this in his personal capacity and out of his reverence for Swami Vivekananda.
According to sound engineers and music restorers, time is running out. Unless found soon, they may be lost for ever.
Krisharajendra Wadeyar, a great granduncle of Srikantadatta, a friend of Swami Vivekananda, was a music collector and is believed to have built up a major personal archive. Recordings are believed to have been made during Swami Vivekananda’s visit to the West when he also met Thomas Alva Edison, the inventor.
Swami Vivekananda’s short but extremely active and fruitful life came to an end in 1902. He was born in 1863. He addressed the Chicago Parliament of Religions in 1893, and gave many discourses on Vedanta in the West thereafter. In the early days, recordings were made on a cylindrical pole and they were played on a “graphophone.”
If the recordings are found now, they will have to be reformated to suit current technology.
But disciples of one of the greatest monks and followers of the Order will without doubt be eager to hear even a broken syllable that can be thus recovered.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Murugan ji,
Thanks for hunting up that link. I'd be really very happy if I can hear His recording if available. I remember in a documentary, IIRC, called "Jesus in India", where the guy travels to many places in India to find evidences. He goes to one of Swamiji's ashrams and a monk shows a gramophone and says that it was gifted to Swamiji by Edison (IIRC). So its quite possible that there are original recordings. I'm still very skeptical about the Chicago speeches.
Here's another link I found.
Fake or Real? – The Audio Recording of Swami Vivekananda at the Parliament of Religions in Chicago in 1893
Thanks for hunting up that link. I'd be really very happy if I can hear His recording if available. I remember in a documentary, IIRC, called "Jesus in India", where the guy travels to many places in India to find evidences. He goes to one of Swamiji's ashrams and a monk shows a gramophone and says that it was gifted to Swamiji by Edison (IIRC). So its quite possible that there are original recordings. I'm still very skeptical about the Chicago speeches.
Here's another link I found.
Fake or Real? – The Audio Recording of Swami Vivekananda at the Parliament of Religions in Chicago in 1893
M S Nanjundiah in the August 2010 issue of The Vedanta Kesari categorically states that there was no technology available in 1893 to record the opening address at the Chicago Parliament of Religions in 1893.
Here are some of his findings:
… reviewed the position regarding the technology available in US in 1893 for voice recording and the manner in which the recordings were made—record making required the person to speak into a mouthpiece attached to a diaphragm which was connected to a stylus that etched vibration patterns from a sound source on a rotating cylinder (The Berliner Gramophone, which could record on discs for 2 minutes only, became popular in USA only in 1894). Only ‘two minute’ cylinders were in use and these could record for only 2 to 3 minutes. Recordings outside studios were not practicable; getting an acceptable quality involved a lot of effort even in studios. In view of the limitations of the technology, a recording of the sessions at the Parliament of Religions in 1893 would not have happened.
It appears that there is a voice recording now being circulated on Internet and elsewhere as Swamiji’s voice. This is unfortunate. The recording includes not only the first address but other addresses as well and runs for several minutes; such recordings were not feasible, for the reasons indicated above.
Also one recording that is circulating has a lady introducing Swami Vivekananda. This shows it is not genuine. Swami Vivekananda himself has said in a letter written to Alasinga Perumal [an admirer of Swamiji from Madras] on 2 November 1893 that Dr Barrows introduced him; also that the applause after his opening statement, ‘Sisters and Brothers. . . ’ lasted two minutes. The applause in the recording is only a few seconds. There is another aspect. Recordings of that era (such as Edison cylinder recordings) when retrieved after many years have an ‘accumulated noise’ which, if removed, will distort the sound; the recording under circulation has no such noise. It cannot, therefore, be an authentic recording.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Naren, the TN symbol 20 years back was a Temple Gopuram with a Tiger Jumping accross it, Gopuram- respresents Madurai- Pandya capital and the Tioger from the Flag of the Chozhas. Wonder why the Tiger has disappeared??
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Thats very interesting. I didnt know that.Aditya_V wrote:Naren, the TN symbol 20 years back was a Temple Gopuram with a Tiger Jumping accross it, Gopuram- respresents Madurai- Pandya capital and the Tioger from the Flag of the Chozhas. Wonder why the Tiger has disappeared??
IPKF pulled out from SL in 1989....
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Gramophone recordings
Oldest surviving recordings
Frank Lambert's lead cylinder recording for an experimental talking clock is often identified as the oldest surviving playable sound recording,[10] although the evidence advanced for its early date is controversial.[11] The phonograph cylinder recordings of Handel's choral music made on June 29, 1888 at The Crystal Palace in London were thought to be the oldest known surviving musical recordings,[12] until the recent playback by a group of American historians of a waveform of "Au Clair de la Lune", recorded on a phonautograph on April 9, 1860.[13] The 1860 phonautogram had not until then been played, as it was only an attempt to transcribe audio waves onto paper as a visual representation.
OR
the recordings might have been done using dictaphone (graphophone).
The recording and playback technology was availble commercially post 1885 contrary to mr Nanjundiah and vedant kesari.
Among their improvements, the Graphophone used a cutting stylus to create lateral 'zig-zag' grooves of uniform depth into the wax-coated cardboard cylinders, rather than the up-and-down hill and dale grooves of Edison's then-contemporary phonograph machine designs.[1][2]
Notably, Bell and Tainter developed wax-coated cardboard cylinders for their record cylinders, instead of Edison's cast iron cylinder which was covered with a removable film of tinfoil (the actual recording medium) which was prone to damage during installation or removal.[3] Tainter received a separate patent for a tube assembly machine to automatically produce the coiled cardboard tubes which served as the foundation for the wax cylinder records.
Besides being far easier to handle, the wax recording medium also allowed for lengthier recordings and created superior playback quality.[3] Additionally the Graphophones initially deployed foot treadles to rotate the recordings, then wind-up clockwork drive mechanisms, and finally migrated to electric motors, instead of the manual crank that was used on Edison's phonograph.[3]
The resulting sound quality was significantly better than that of Edison's machine. During this era sound recording used a mechanical rather than an electromechanical method, and was termed an acoustical recording process.
Graphophone commercialization Post 1884
In 1885, when the Volta Associates were sure that they had a number of practical inventions, they filed patent applications and began to seek out investors. The Volta Graphophone Company of Alexandria, Virginia, was created on January 6, 1886 and incorporated on February 3, 1886. It was formed to control the patents and to handle the commercial development of their sound recording and reproduction inventions, one of which became the first Dictaphone.[14]
...
After the Volta Associates gave several demonstrations in the City of Washington, businessmen from Philadelphia created the American Graphophone Company on March 28, 1887, in order to produce and sell the machines for the budding phonograph marketplace.[16][17] The Volta Graphophone Company then merged with American Graphophone,[16] which itself later evolved into Columbia Records.[18][19]
Shortly after American Graphophone's creation, Jesse H. Lippincott used nearly $1 million of an inheritance to gain control of it, as well as the rights to the Graphophone and the Bell and Tainter patents. He directly invested $200,000 into American Graphophone, and agreed to purchase 5,000 machines yearly.[3][6] Not long later, Lippincott purchased the Edison Speaking Phonograph Company and its patents for US$500,000.[3] He then created the North American Phonograph Company in 1888 to consolidate the national sales rights of both the Graphophone and the Edison Speaking Phonograph.[3][6]
A later-model Columbia Graphophone of 1901.Shortly after American Graphophone's creation, Jesse H. Lippincott used nearly $1 million of an inheritance to gain control of it, as well as the rights to the Graphophone and the Bell and Tainter patents.[17] Not long later Lippincott purchased the Edison Speaking Phonograph Company. He then created the North American Phonograph Company to consolidate the national sales rights of both the Graphophone and the Edison Speaking Phonograph.[17] In the early 1890s Lippincott fell victim to the unit's mechanical problems and also to resistance from stenographers.
This would postpone the popularity of the Graphophone until 1889 when Louis Glass, manager of the Pacific Phonograph Company would popularize it again through the promotion of nickel-in-the-slot 'entertainment' cylinders
Oldest surviving recordings
Frank Lambert's lead cylinder recording for an experimental talking clock is often identified as the oldest surviving playable sound recording,[10] although the evidence advanced for its early date is controversial.[11] The phonograph cylinder recordings of Handel's choral music made on June 29, 1888 at The Crystal Palace in London were thought to be the oldest known surviving musical recordings,[12] until the recent playback by a group of American historians of a waveform of "Au Clair de la Lune", recorded on a phonautograph on April 9, 1860.[13] The 1860 phonautogram had not until then been played, as it was only an attempt to transcribe audio waves onto paper as a visual representation.
OR
the recordings might have been done using dictaphone (graphophone).
The recording and playback technology was availble commercially post 1885 contrary to mr Nanjundiah and vedant kesari.
Among their improvements, the Graphophone used a cutting stylus to create lateral 'zig-zag' grooves of uniform depth into the wax-coated cardboard cylinders, rather than the up-and-down hill and dale grooves of Edison's then-contemporary phonograph machine designs.[1][2]
Notably, Bell and Tainter developed wax-coated cardboard cylinders for their record cylinders, instead of Edison's cast iron cylinder which was covered with a removable film of tinfoil (the actual recording medium) which was prone to damage during installation or removal.[3] Tainter received a separate patent for a tube assembly machine to automatically produce the coiled cardboard tubes which served as the foundation for the wax cylinder records.
Besides being far easier to handle, the wax recording medium also allowed for lengthier recordings and created superior playback quality.[3] Additionally the Graphophones initially deployed foot treadles to rotate the recordings, then wind-up clockwork drive mechanisms, and finally migrated to electric motors, instead of the manual crank that was used on Edison's phonograph.[3]
The resulting sound quality was significantly better than that of Edison's machine. During this era sound recording used a mechanical rather than an electromechanical method, and was termed an acoustical recording process.
Graphophone commercialization Post 1884
In 1885, when the Volta Associates were sure that they had a number of practical inventions, they filed patent applications and began to seek out investors. The Volta Graphophone Company of Alexandria, Virginia, was created on January 6, 1886 and incorporated on February 3, 1886. It was formed to control the patents and to handle the commercial development of their sound recording and reproduction inventions, one of which became the first Dictaphone.[14]
...
After the Volta Associates gave several demonstrations in the City of Washington, businessmen from Philadelphia created the American Graphophone Company on March 28, 1887, in order to produce and sell the machines for the budding phonograph marketplace.[16][17] The Volta Graphophone Company then merged with American Graphophone,[16] which itself later evolved into Columbia Records.[18][19]
Shortly after American Graphophone's creation, Jesse H. Lippincott used nearly $1 million of an inheritance to gain control of it, as well as the rights to the Graphophone and the Bell and Tainter patents. He directly invested $200,000 into American Graphophone, and agreed to purchase 5,000 machines yearly.[3][6] Not long later, Lippincott purchased the Edison Speaking Phonograph Company and its patents for US$500,000.[3] He then created the North American Phonograph Company in 1888 to consolidate the national sales rights of both the Graphophone and the Edison Speaking Phonograph.[3][6]
A later-model Columbia Graphophone of 1901.Shortly after American Graphophone's creation, Jesse H. Lippincott used nearly $1 million of an inheritance to gain control of it, as well as the rights to the Graphophone and the Bell and Tainter patents.[17] Not long later Lippincott purchased the Edison Speaking Phonograph Company. He then created the North American Phonograph Company to consolidate the national sales rights of both the Graphophone and the Edison Speaking Phonograph.[17] In the early 1890s Lippincott fell victim to the unit's mechanical problems and also to resistance from stenographers.
This would postpone the popularity of the Graphophone until 1889 when Louis Glass, manager of the Pacific Phonograph Company would popularize it again through the promotion of nickel-in-the-slot 'entertainment' cylinders
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Ample proof of the popularity of the recording machines. If they can be used in place of stenographer speaks much about the technology's practical application in offices also.In the early 1890s Lippincott fell victim to the unit's mechanical problems and also to resistance from stenographers.
btw, coin controlled graphophone machines were in use in 1893
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta_Labo ... evelopment
the hindu-blog article is not well researched. and the claim of reviewing tech available during the time by mr nanjundiah has no meaning in the light of above information.
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RamaY
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Kerala
Tamilnadu
Andhra Pradesh
Karnataka
Goa
Maharashtra
Orissa
Chattisgarh
Madhya Pradesh
Gujarat
Rajastan
Haryana
Uttara Pradesh
Bihar
Jarkhand
West Bengal
Sikkim
Meghalaya
Mizoram
Manipur
Nagaland
Punjab
Jammu & Kashmir
Himachala Pradesh
Uttarakhand
Assam
Arunachal Pradesh
Tripura
Tamilnadu
Andhra Pradesh
Karnataka
Goa
Maharashtra
Orissa
Chattisgarh
Madhya Pradesh
Gujarat
Rajastan
Haryana
Uttara Pradesh
Bihar
Jarkhand
West Bengal
Sikkim
Meghalaya
Mizoram
Manipur
Nagaland
Punjab
Jammu & Kashmir
Himachala Pradesh
Uttarakhand
Assam
Arunachal Pradesh
Tripura
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Would be intersting to discuss the symbology of each state emblem. I see so many refs to our epics, earlier kingdoms and myths.
Truly "India that is Bharat!"
Truly "India that is Bharat!"
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Vikas
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
^ Is it required to have 4 headed lion in the state emblem? Seems like most of them have it.
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RamaY
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
To me the interesting ones are
West Bengal - Don't get any symbolism or culture of that nation except hoping that is was Kali ma.
Jarkhand - Someone lost in design without any roots in local heritage and culture
Uttarakhand - Someone who doesn't know the difference between a state seal and corp logo...
West Bengal - Don't get any symbolism or culture of that nation except hoping that is was Kali ma.
Jarkhand - Someone lost in design without any roots in local heritage and culture
Uttarakhand - Someone who doesn't know the difference between a state seal and corp logo...
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brihaspati
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
as I can see it
Jharkhand - ref to forest and the fighting spirit represented by an upturned dagger blade
Uttarakhand - Mountains and rivers
WB - the quitessential Bengali woman/perhaps as mother. The Bindi/sindur is iconic of married women from Hindu background, but Muslim subcultures also follow it - on occasions. Strange that Marxists have retained it. But then again no other single symbol says as much as it says on the Hindu wife's forehead. Other options were a burqa, that would cover the face - and a cross that hung low on the neck - means exposing a lot!
Jharkhand - ref to forest and the fighting spirit represented by an upturned dagger blade
Uttarakhand - Mountains and rivers
WB - the quitessential Bengali woman/perhaps as mother. The Bindi/sindur is iconic of married women from Hindu background, but Muslim subcultures also follow it - on occasions. Strange that Marxists have retained it. But then again no other single symbol says as much as it says on the Hindu wife's forehead. Other options were a burqa, that would cover the face - and a cross that hung low on the neck - means exposing a lot!
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brihaspati
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Manipur has maintained its old royal lion - a symbol of the Hindu/Vaishnav kingdom that did resist the Brits.
J&K got stuck in its Dal Lake and Mughaliana in the lotus/lily symbolism - hard to believe that there is some hidden signal about still being pre-islamic in the lotus symbol which is shared between Buddhists and Hindus.
Bihar has chosen to emphasize its Buddhist past in the tree of elightenment.
What is curious is the adoption of the two fish symbol! What a volcano of possibilities!
J&K got stuck in its Dal Lake and Mughaliana in the lotus/lily symbolism - hard to believe that there is some hidden signal about still being pre-islamic in the lotus symbol which is shared between Buddhists and Hindus.
Bihar has chosen to emphasize its Buddhist past in the tree of elightenment.
What is curious is the adoption of the two fish symbol! What a volcano of possibilities!
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
^^^
I read that the two fish symbol was the insignia of the Mughal empire in the "Last Moghul" by Darlymple but wikipedia shows lion and the rising sun. Now I find it in kingdom of "Oudh".
http://www.hubert-herald.nl/BhaAwadh.htm
I read that the two fish symbol was the insignia of the Mughal empire in the "Last Moghul" by Darlymple but wikipedia shows lion and the rising sun. Now I find it in kingdom of "Oudh".
http://www.hubert-herald.nl/BhaAwadh.htm
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Thanks Bji.brihaspati wrote:as I can see it
Jharkhand - ref to forest and the fighting spirit represented by an upturned dagger blade
Uttarakhand - Mountains and rivers
WB - the quitessential Bengali woman/perhaps as mother. The Bindi/sindur is iconic of married women from Hindu background, but Muslim subcultures also follow it - on occasions. Strange that Marxists have retained it. But then again no other single symbol says as much as it says on the Hindu wife's forehead. Other options were a burqa, that would cover the face - and a cross that hung low on the neck - means exposing a lot!
I got Uttarakhand meaning but didnt understand the need to make it look like a corp logo.
Jharkhand - That makes sense. But again it looks like a corp logo
WB - I got that pic... but found it interesting to see that as a state seal. when did marxists come to power in WB?
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
I started reading Gita and in the first chapter, Arjun says this-
"O Krishna! When the sin becomes immense the women of the family get
polluted and O Varshneya when the women are polluted there will be
mixture of castes producing unwanted progeny (children). ||1-41||"
"This mixture of castes puts the family and the people who destroy the family
tradition into hell. Deprived of food and water, the ancestors (Pitrus) of such
families will also have a downfall. ||1-42|| "
As someone whose mother and father belong to different castes, I really want to know a few things-
1. Were castes in that day were different than what we consider today?
2. What was/is so bad in inter-caste marriages?
I really have so many doubts about how caste system evolved, when did it become bad or such things. Can someone guide me to a non-partisan text over this matter?
"O Krishna! When the sin becomes immense the women of the family get
polluted and O Varshneya when the women are polluted there will be
mixture of castes producing unwanted progeny (children). ||1-41||"
"This mixture of castes puts the family and the people who destroy the family
tradition into hell. Deprived of food and water, the ancestors (Pitrus) of such
families will also have a downfall. ||1-42|| "
As someone whose mother and father belong to different castes, I really want to know a few things-
1. Were castes in that day were different than what we consider today?
2. What was/is so bad in inter-caste marriages?
I really have so many doubts about how caste system evolved, when did it become bad or such things. Can someone guide me to a non-partisan text over this matter?
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
The term in Shrimad is "varnasankar" that is in context not of "Sin" but destruction that "war" causes.
Arjun is saying post war there is much suffering due to loss of menfolk to supporting and sustain the family.
Please read it in that context. Arjuna is talking literally of Ba***** born because of poor defenseless state of women, and not of Women of one caste marrying dharmically into another.
Arjun is saying post war there is much suffering due to loss of menfolk to supporting and sustain the family.
Please read it in that context. Arjuna is talking literally of Ba***** born because of poor defenseless state of women, and not of Women of one caste marrying dharmically into another.
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JwalaMukhi
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Quite simply varnas != castes.kittoo wrote: As someone whose mother and father belong to different castes, I really want to know a few things-
1. Were castes in that day were different than what we consider today?
2. What was/is so bad in inter-caste marriages?
I really have so many doubts about how caste system evolved, when did it become bad or such things. Can someone guide me to a non-partisan text over this matter?
Varnas are different from castes. So, bhagvad gita deals with varnas and not jatis/(castes). Convince yourself if there is any difference between jati and varna. Then that will be the starting point. BTW, for reference there are thousands of jatis while varnas are handful. The mapping between varnas and jatis is a vexing issue. That will be tangential to your questions about Arjuna's doubts.
Arjuna's concern about varnasanskars has to do with propagation/sustenance of memes. When caste is replaced in place of varna, then propagation of genes becomes focus and yields error in understanding.
Propagation of memes (Dharma) requires certain conditions to be fulfilled. Family is basic unit and foundation for a society that is truly unhypocritical. The family structure was/is? held in highest esteem and that had certain composition of the society which was not based on hypocrisy. Sustenance of dharma is accomplished through varnas (which is generic description) for a generalist. It is gross classification of the society that comes in handy for administration of dharma.
Your question 1. is be not what Arjuna is talking about. Hence, that will not address your concern about Arjuna's doubts.
Your question 2. will resolve if you reconcile your question 1. Hope it helps.
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brihaspati
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
RamaY ji, additionally there is the red border on the white saree. That is a sign of "sadhabaa" - "with husband" as opposed to "bidhabaa" or widow, and the abagunthana is also sign of [not necessarily but predominantly taken as] of marital status.
Marxists first came to to power in the late 60's for a brief period. They started again in 1977 and been there since.
Abhi G - thanks! For the Oudh ref.
Marxists first came to to power in the late 60's for a brief period. They started again in 1977 and been there since.
Abhi G - thanks! For the Oudh ref.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Murugan ji,Murugan wrote:Ample proof of the popularity of the recording machines. If they can be used in place of stenographer speaks much about the technology's practical application in offices also.In the early 1890s Lippincott fell victim to the unit's mechanical problems and also to resistance from stenographers.
btw, coin controlled graphophone machines were in use in 1893
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta_Labo ... evelopment
the hindu-blog article is not well researched. and the claim of reviewing tech available during the time by mr nanjundiah has no meaning in the light of above information.
Thanks for researching that. I definitely remember this - in the "paper on hinduism" speech, there were clear differences between what the speaker said and the actual texts. The "response to welcome" is ofcourse accurate. If you have time, I'd recommend you to cross check it yourself. I would be very happy if it turns out to be true, but unfortunately its not.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
RamaY wrote: Uttara Pradesh
This is very interesting - Fish was used by Pandyas and Bow & Arrow by Cheras.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Another way to look at it - Indian flag, stripped of orange, surrounded on all sides by green. "White" offered "protected" status. "Trails" typically imply motion - as in the green flag carried by cavalry and surrounding all sides ? And the wheel has only 18 spokes - imply that this new nation has place for only 18% of the population, implying that the rest 82%, like orange, have no place ?brihaspati wrote:Jharkhand - ref to forest and the fighting spirit represented by an upturned dagger blade
(or may be I'm just being paranoid.)
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
for kerala, the depicted counch taken from travencore kingdom's symbols. Elephants are there in all public corporations of kerala also, meaning the black ones in the logo and they being "white elephants"
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RamaY
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Narenji, I don't think your exposition applies to Jarkhand.
Overall these state seals show the unifying factor of Indic psyche. Pranams to our forefathers.
Look at Goa, the Aum in the Jyothi
Overall these state seals show the unifying factor of Indic psyche. Pranams to our forefathers.
Look at Goa, the Aum in the Jyothi
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Why Sikkim is using Dragons? 
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/
transliteration, translation, hyperlinked index & keyword searchable
(Got via Twitter) For Devnagri script you need to install the fonts. This kind of stuff is needs to make the text understand and also searchable. Great job and kudos.
transliteration, translation, hyperlinked index & keyword searchable
(Got via Twitter) For Devnagri script you need to install the fonts. This kind of stuff is needs to make the text understand and also searchable. Great job and kudos.
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RamaY
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Muppala garu; that is the site I always referred to and quoted to understand the real story about
- Vali vadha
- Sri Rama's incarnation
etc.,
- Vali vadha
- Sri Rama's incarnation
etc.,
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brihaspati
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Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
There are many interpretations possible for UP. The bow is also associated with Rama. Fish and bow has associations with Mahabharata through Arjuna and Draupadi's swayambhar. There is a tree which separates into three parts - which could be a ref to forests/Vanavasi culture. But what was intriguing for me was the double fish. Traditionally this would stand for Pisces in astrology. It is also a hidden symbol in Messianic/Christian symbolism standing for Jesus. Now we can read too much into this - but it would be more useful to know when each symbol was adopted. That can then be a pointer based on who was in power at the state and centre at the time.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Samay wrote:Why Sikkim is using Dragons?
Here's what wiki had to say on the topic:
The seal of Sikkim is used by the government of Sikkim as its symbol. It was previously the symbol during the latter period of the Sikkimese monarchy.
The central shield, supported by dragons, consists of a Buddhist khorlo prayer wheel with the gankyil as the central element. Above is a helmet more in line with European armorial bearings, and atop that is the right turning conch, a Buddhist pictogram representing the pervasive sound of the Buddhadharma which awakens disciples and urges them to accomplish their own welfare and the welfare of others.
With the annexation of Sikkim to India, and with the abolition of the monarchy, the flag of Sikkim was abolished, but the symbol retained.
Looks similar to Tibetan snow lion ?
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Err Dragons have a major protector role in Vajrayana Buddhism along with Lion and other auspicious animals.Samay wrote:Why Sikkim is using Dragons?
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
Book Review in Pioneer:
I think Ashok Banker has written a series of books on the epics.Revisiting Krishna
January 25, 2011 1:40:32 AM
Krishna Coriolis
Author: Ashok Banker
Publisher: HarperCollins
Price: Rs 250
It’s yet another bold, innovative attempt to interpret Mahabharata, writes Rheek Chakraborty
When I saw the book, the first thing that caught my attention was the title — Krishna Coriolis. Coriolis is basically a term used in physics to describe the apparent deflection of moving objects when they are viewed from a rotating reference frame. So, from the very title, it is evident what Ashok Banker intends to present to his readers.
While retelling a story from itihasa (history), Banker says he has tried to analyse not only Krishna but also the entire story from various aspects. The best part about the author’s approach is that he does not have a dogmatic stance; he simply tells a story that has been told over generations. “It matters not whether you are Hindu or non-Hindu, whether you believe Krishna to be God or just a historical personage… the richness and wonder of these tales have outlived countless generations and will outlast more to come,” writes Banker.
The author, however, adheres to a philosophical inclination when he says: “And when I use the word ‘I’, it is meant in the universal. You are ‘I’. As I am she…” Thus, it can be said that the book, starting from its introduction, shows signs of being a balanced mix of philosophy and mythical history.
Another notable thing about the book is the author’s writing style. He blends Sanskrit, Hindi and English with aplomb. This, I believe, is the soul of the book. The language is simple yet descriptive, and he pays attention to the minutest of details starting from the clothes of the characters to vivid descriptions of the various places, clans, characters, etc.
Coming down to the content, the book is more of a preamble to the story of Krishna slaying Kamsa. It gives an account of the background of the epic and the reasons that led to the emergence of Kamsa and Krishna. The book also gives an analysis of all the key characters — Vasudeva, his wife Devaki (who is also the mother of Krishna) and Kamsa, the prince who upholds the asuric tradition.
The book takes you through the story of how Kamsa, a young tyrannical prince, goes about destroying his neighbouring kingdom of Vasudeva, but fails to kill him owing to the intervention of Lord Vishnu. He then makes friendship with Jarasandha, King of Magadha, who is the leader of outcastes. Kamsa then returns to Mathura and claims the throne, imprisoning his parents, as well as Vasudeva and Devaki. But, he gets a warning from the heavens that the eighth child of Vasudeva and Devaki would be his doom. Kamsa, therefore, decides to kill their children one by one, but couldn’t prevent the birth of his “slayer” — Krishna.
This is where the book ends. And you regret the fact that there are no more pages to feast your eyes upon. I believe the ending is deliberate as it will force the reader to look for the next volume of the book. To sum up, Krishna Coriolis is a stimulating book with little loose ends.
Re: Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas
http://www.livemint.com/2011/01/0319285 ... l?atype=tp
So if there is someone here....looking for a job with Sanskrit and Science background...there is on in IIT-B. Good luck.
So if there is someone here....looking for a job with Sanskrit and Science background...there is on in IIT-B. Good luck.
And in Joshi’s struggle to learn mathematics, lies the biggest challenge that this venture faces, because “there just aren’t enough people who are skilled in both. If they know Sanskrit, they know little science. And if they are good scientists, they are not interested in Sanskrit or translation of Indian texts”, said Subramanian, explaining why, despite making an enormous effort, IIT has not been able to expand the cell.
“The director keeps asking me to bring more people on board. But I don’t know where they are. Also, some Indian sciences such as Vastushastra, metallurgy, Ayurveda are not exact sciences like math and astronomy. So, if we bring someone in to translate these texts, they need to understand all three: the texts, Sanskrit and English.”
Devang Khakhar, director of IIT-B agreed. “I would like to be able to expand the cell if we find an academician who can do pioneering work. But I have left that decision to the department. When they find someone, we will get them on board.”
Another challenge is of a different nature: Original manuscripts are either rotting or missing. “I had gone to find out some text related to my research at the Kerala University library of manuscripts when I found worms eating four of seven manuscripts. I bought lemongrass oil and gave it to the librarian who said they were too short staffed to look after the documents,” said Ramasubramanian, lamenting that it was the same story across the country. “We simply do not take our historical heritage, intellectual heritage seriously.”
And until about 30 years ago, none of the manuscripts were available in printed form. “Old palm leaf manuscripts had to be rewritten on new palm leaves every 100 years by scribes who often inserted errors into the manuscript. An entire industry existed until the last century. Only now has the idea of digitizing and printing become popular.”
The professors and students say they have to battle for respect in a country where history, especially the history of science has little value. “Only recently, the cell has started getting more visibility, people have begun asking us to come and talk about our work. Slowly, people are becoming interested…” Kulkarni said.