Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

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A_Gupta
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Eulogy to Salman Taseer from an American friend
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archiv ... _taseer_a/

What is of relevance here are the ideas advocated:
Finally, the United States must get serious about Pakistan; what must and can be done; and then do it. The editorial pages of the New York Times and Washington Post not withstanding and despite the hue and cry of complaints from Congress about Pakistan corruption and apathy to fighting the war on terror, does the United States and the West wish to succeed or not in bringing stability to the region? If the answer is yes, then real action must be taken.

Critics argue that since September 11th, billions have already been sent to Pakistan. More will not help. But money is not the major issue although if emergency loans from the IMF do not continue, the nation will go bankrupt and collapse financially.

Crucial are, as Taseer argued, political, strategic, economic and psychological support. First is textile tariff relief that will not cost U.S. workers a single job. Second is agreeing to discussions on a nuclear treaty similar to the one signed with India. Third is using U.S. and other major powers to encourage negotiations between India and Pakistan to reduce tensions and flash points whether over Kashmir or Mumbai-style threats.

Last and the administration may be moving in this direction, the U.S. must decide how critical Pakistan military action in North Waziristan is to success in Afghanistan. If vital, then Pakistan needs the tools in terms of military equipment to do the job. After spending many hundreds of billions of dollars in oil rich Iraq and Afghanistan in equipping those security forces, several tens of billions of dollars for Pakistan seems a bargain despite our own financial hardships.

Make no mistake: without these actions, the current Pakistani government will fall. The opposition, headed by Nawaz Sharif, is no friend of the United States or our Afghan policy. If that happens, in 2012, many will ask "who lost Pakistan?" The answer will be the Pakistanis. But we will have allowed it to happen.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

In short give us money so that we can pay installment on our debt. Then give us more money in form of textile tarriff cuts so that RAPES can become rich. Then throw in a nuclear deal to keep fans and lights in abdul's home running ( also we need money to buy these power plants so more $$ jiziya needs to me given) follow that up with kashmir for H&D and that is barely enough to keep us alive to keep us healthy we will come up with another list. Qadri if you know how to read then read this guy's article who claims to be blasphemmer taseers friend and a friend of blasphemmer is a blasphemmer AoA. :wink:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

Its been a bloody start to the year 2011 for the “financial capital” of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Karachi, with 90 target killings :

Karachi: Target killings leave 90 dead in 16 days
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

Taseer has been making the very same demands and threats as the TSPA. So he is no different than the regular RAPE or Jihadis. And the eulogy writer is of same bent of mind.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Apologies if this has been posted before:
http://www.cfr.org/publication/23744/pa ... ation.html
Pakistan's Road to Disintegration
Interviewee: Stephen P. Cohen, Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution
Interviewer: Bernard Gwertzman, Consulting Editor
What struck me:
Is the fear of India genuine?

It is genuine, because it goes back to the identity of Pakistan. They can't figure out how to reconcile their strategic necessity of accommodation with India. Of course, India takes a hard line on a lot of issues, not just Kashmir. India has allowed China to acquire Pakistan as a strategic asset. It is now a trilateral game between the Chinese and Indians with the Pakistanis on the Chinese side.
But previously
If it is anybody's problem in the future, it is going to be China's problem. I just spent several weeks in Pakistan. One thing I discovered was the country insecurity in a way I had never seen it, even in military cantonments. The other was that China's influence in Pakistan was much greater and deeper than I had imagined it to be. In a sense that's India's problem, but in the long run, it will be China's problem.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

What is there to strike you? Its Cohen nonsense that India by not giving Kashmir has driven TSP into PRC hands. Recall Ayub Khan ran into PRC's arms in 1963 to gain support against India. IOW Cohen is blaming India for losing TSP! Or the Pak collapse.
How can you lose something when it is wayward?.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Lalmohan »

India has allowed china only in as much as india did not rip pakistan to shreds before the chinese could pump it full of steroids
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Ramana:
Cohen in turn says:
a. Pakistan is a problem (failing state)
b. Pakistan's failure will be China's problem.
c. India has not acquired Pakistan (this problem) as a strategic asset.

That is what struck me. If he had termed Pakistan a strategic liability, he would be more consistent.

-Arun
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Dipanker »

A_Gupta wrote:Ramana:
Cohen in turn says:
a. Pakistan is a problem (failing state)
b. Pakistan's failure will be China's problem.
c. India has not acquired Pakistan (this problem) as a strategic asset.

That is what struck me. If he had termed Pakistan a strategic liability, he would be more consistent.

-Arun
Cohen is incredibly naive to think Pakistan failure will be China's problem. It simply shows that he does not understand Chinese people.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Hari Seldon »

Dipankar sahib,

In what way do you disagree with cohen on that particular point? Some elaboration would be nice. Thank you.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by sum »

No plans to amend blasphemy law: Pakistan PM
Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani [ Images ] on Monday said his government will not amend the blasphemy law, which has been at the centre of a raging controversy since the assassination of Punjab [ Images ] Governor Salmaan Taseer over his opposition to the statute.

"Neither have we thought of it nor are we going to do it," Gilani said while addressing a gathering after inaugurating the campuses of two universities at Dera Ghazi Khan. Those who were saying a committee had been formed by the government to amend the blasphemy law were wrong, he said.

"No such committee was formed. However, a committee was formed by the Pakistan People's Party to discuss proposed legislations moved by lawmakers and this committee had rejected the amendment of the blasphemy law," Gilani said. "I cannot think of amendment in the blasphemy law." However, he said the government believes that no law should be misused.

Taseer, a leader of the ruling PPP and a confidant of President Asif Ali Zardari [ Images ], was gunned in Islamabad [ Images ] on January 4 by a police guard who said he was angered by the politician's criticism of the blasphemy law. Pakistani liberals, rights activists and minority community leaders have demanded the repeal or amendment of the law in the wake of the murder.

However, religious hardliners and extremist groups like the Jamaat-ud-Dawah have rallied in support of the law and Taseer's assassin and warned the government not to change the law.

The Pakistani PM said persons airing rumours about an amendment in the blasphemy law were merely wasting their time and should instead come together to strengthen institutions and the rule of law and to help overcome challenges confronting Pakistan, including unemployment, terrorism, extremism, sectarianism.
AoA...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by CRamS »

A_Gupta wrote:Third is using U.S. and other major powers to encourage negotiations between India and Pakistan to reduce tensions and flash points whether over Kashmir or Mumbai-style threats.
This brazen call by TSP for US to mediate to supposedly "prevent" Mumbai-style threats can only be made knowing that US either does not care or actually encourages TSP terror. Reason being that TSP conducts these mass murders in order to force India to the negotiating table and compel it talk whatever it is that TSP wants to. Now by feigning ignorance or helplessness or victimhood over terror and then speciously asking US to mediate as a sign of reasonablness is an indirect way of achieving the same results. Because TSP knows that their terror has sent the message to India, and the only thing left is embarassing India to talk and put it on the defensive. Kind of like pinching you in the b@lls underneath the table, but with a smiling face. If US were indeed to have even an ounce of credibility, they would issue the same customary BS: "we will mediate if both sides agree", but with the caveat that TSP must be cleaned up of all terror because terror and talks cannot go together. Just the spectacle of Hafeez Saeed roaming around freely and LET braznenly collecting funds is evidence enough. But US letting TSP get away with this fraudulent show of reasonableness, calling for talks under the aegis of US knowing fully well the game TSP is up to, shows that US is as complicit as TSP is on terror against India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ thats because jarnails have both hands under table squeezing elephant's and eagle's balls at the same time...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RamaY »

Well, they do not have those ba**s in jarnails hands to be honest. But leaders of elephant and eagle moan and act as if their ba**s are squeezed every time the jernails enacts the squeezing.

The problem is that the elephant thinks it is a pig and eagle thinks it is a crow when it comes to jernails. The issue is more of ignorance than fear.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

Has this IED gone un noticed and unheard ?

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/01/1 ... storylink=
Minibus bombing in NW Pakistan kills 19
PARACHINAR, Pakistan – A bomb ripped apart a minibus in a militant-infested area of northwestern Pakistan on Monday, killing all 17 people on board and two others in a nearby vehicle, police said.The bus was traveling between the cities of Hangu and Kohat close to Pakistan's lawless tribal region. Islamist militants frequently carry out attacks in the area against both civilians and security forces.Hangu police chief Abdur Rasheed said the bomb that destroyed the bus contained high explosives, and the blast was especially deadly because the bomb detonated the gas cylinder used to power the bus. Authorities initially thought the gas cylinder alone caused the explosion.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Vivek K »

(Articles by Cohen and Schaffer) seem to be an effort to direct blame elsewhere and cut and run
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Cosmo_R »

@A_Gupta"Eulogy to Salman Taseer from an American friend ^^^
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archiv ... _taseer_a/

Harlan Ullman (Shock and Awe guy) is a 'lobbyist' for TSP. He is compensated well for his Daily Times articles.

Take his writings in that context.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Mahendra »

[youtube]FDlH09Inx2E&feature=related[/youtube]

Blasphemy sanctioned by the Pawki Govt
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Muppalla »

A_Gupta wrote:
Third is using U.S. and other major powers to encourage negotiations between India and Pakistan to reduce tensions and flash points whether over Kashmir or Mumbai-style threats.
To me there a fundamental message in the above line. Kargil, Kandahar and Mumbai are all operations for exactly same purposes. It is not just done purely by Pakistan and there are others (probably all of 3.5 or some of 3.5) involved and many others who used them for many other purposes. Pakistan is the frontend. Only in case of Kargil, the nation responded as there was material loss. In case of Kandhar and Mumbai India did not respond as it is only people (who are abundant in India and can be expended) who died.

Another important point to note - When Kargil and Kandahar happened the government did stop talking and started cutting relations with Pak but in case of Mumbai the government is eager to continue to talk to na Pakis.

Terrorism as a international war tactic is excellently tested by the mighty and the test bed was again India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Anujan »

Muppalla-ji

I largely agree with your assessment but only disagree with the degree of collusion of the 3.5 friends. As far as Unkil is concerned, Unkil probably knew everything about the Mumbai attack, but didnt raise a finger because they wanted to protect their assets and sources in Pakistan and Desh. Add to that, why care if some country is getting attacked when massa is safe? This Paki phenomenon is totally different.

Let me do a bit of Piskology here:

The reason Pakis say "Solving cashmere is needed to reduce Mumbai-style threats" is because there is a concerted effort by the Pakis (and it has been going on for a long time) that terrorism and general pakiness is a genuine tool of foreign policy. To do this, at every occasion they talk about their perfidy in third person. For example you might have heard the famous
If amreeka does not supply us with conventional weapons, degradation of conventional capability might force us to rely excessively on nukes.
To spot the logical fallacy, let me quote an analogous argument. I go to my manager and say:
If the company does not give me a raise, To support my lifestyle, I will be forced to steal office property and auction it off.
This is a brilliant tactic because then people forget two options that are available to them

1. Asking me to scale down my lifestyle in accordance with the amount of money I make
2. To fire me from the job for stealing

Let us analyze this one by one.

1. Scaling down the lifestyle:

Pakis have the same problem. Their national strength, population, economy, military prowess are not commensurate to the foreign policy objectives that they have set themselves. Domination over Afghanistan, getting J&K, breaking up India, avenging '71. So by saying that a vast military will increasingly rely on nukes if they are not given F16s preempts the suggestion:
Have foreign policy objectives that are commensurate with your size and abilities. If you do that, you would neither need F16s nor Nukes.
Here is an interesting piskological observation: While everyone is okay with whatever Unkil does (might is right) whacking the middle east, leveling Afghanistan, meddling all over the word, people do not pause to apply the same "might is right" explanation to India and Pakistan which would be:
J&K is India's because Pakis cant do diddly squat about it
So this victory should be given to the Pakis. People do not question if their territorial, military and strategic objectives are commensurate to their size, economic and military strength..

2. Getting fired for Pakiness

Having successfully won that battle of people *not* questioning Pakistan's aspiration, now comes the second part. How to legitimize Pakiness. So their army hasnt won a thing (my fourth cousin calls them "Anna Kournikova" -- who hasnt won a thing but on seeing whom, fanboys get a huge....well you get the idea.) They economy is dekhonomoney. So how to meddle in J&K? they send terrorists. Now there is a slight danger that people might start questioning the morality of killing innocents for gaining some vague leverage in J&K, but to prevent this -- you start talking about it in third person:
Attacks like Mumbai could happen if issues are not resolved.
So that nobody questions the Pakis:
You bastarts, stop killing people
Because you see, attacks like Mumbai, like natural calamities, "could happen", they werent "planned and executed". Atleast here the Indian babus are doing their bit to not hand victory to the Pakis on a platter ( like they won (1) ) by sending out dossiers on a regular basis. Therefore the takleef with Mumbai where
Talks should not be held hostage to a single issue like Mumbai
If we are less vigilant, Pakis will start equating terror attacks in the same basket as natural calamities. And just like we blame people who build their houses on an edge of a volcano for their houses getting burnt (nobody blames the volcano), our own WKKs and gora "libruls" will start blaming India for "Inviting terror attacks".
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Muppalla »

Anujan wrote:Muppalla-ji

I largely agree with your assessment but only disagree with the degree of collusion of the 3.5 friends. As far as Unkil is concerned, Unkil probably knew everything about the Mumbai attack, but didnt raise a finger because they wanted to protect their assets and sources in Pakistan and Desh. Add to that, why care if some country is getting attacked when massa is safe? This Paki phenomenon is totally different.
No diagreements with your post.

But why Unkil should allow the thing to happen to protect its assets. It could have easily told to India point blank that a major s h i t is going to happen while saving its assets. May be it did.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RajeshA »

Anujan ji,

Thanks for some great semantic deconstruction there!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Anujan »

Muppalla wrote:No diagreements with your post.

But why Unkil should allow the thing to happen to protect its assets. It could have easily told to India point blank that a major s h i t is going to happen while saving its assets. May be it did.
Muppalla-ji

Reams have been written in the Dawood Gilani (David Headley) dhaaga and Mumbai attacks dhaaga. Maybe we should continue discussions there? Basically, to summarize, the ease with which David Headley traveled to India, stayed in posh places, had contacts to show him around sensitive installations, made friends with movie stars got really hot girlfriends from places far away as morrocco and our very own B-movie starlets etc. points to either a willing or unwilling network of facilitators which are being used for similar activities.

It could be as innocuous as a "old boys" network* where proper introductions will smoothen a lot of things, or it could be something sinister

*To give an example, many moons back, yours sachly tried to start a company. (Didnt work out that well). The tactic was to raise funds from Japan where we went through a "company" (on paper) of "japanese investors". The company was actually a bunch of top-level retired Japanese fellows who played golf together. They would introduce us to mid-level managers (who had worked under them. I didnt know for sure) from Japanese electronics heavyweights, who are in charge of allotting funds for projects. Our tactic was to get funded to "outsource" some of those projects. The "investor company" who introduced us will get a huge cut of the funding, all in return for making a few phone calls (they went back to playing golf). The downside was that we would be left with only half the money. The upside was that we didnt have to pay up any money upfront, but still got audience with the high and mighty and if we were able to convince them, a huge pot of money.

Oh what a month it was!! Staying in expensive hotels, wearing expensive suits, hobnobbing with the powerful, lavish dinner parties, booze till 4am! We would go in and out of HUGE electronics gaints like it was our backyard! All because of the right phone calls.

Moral of the story: There is a seedy underbelly of "old boys network" which are the real facilitators of all things. Good and bad. That is the real asset, which would have been broken up if India caught headley and if he squealed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by arun »

Surely it is Religion rather than Politics that will make it difficult to convict Mumtaz Qadri ifor the killing of Governor Salman Taseer despite being caught red handed?

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the use of Mohammadenism to justify tearing apart an united India reach’s an inevitable denouement where wrapping oneself up in the Green flag of Mohammadenism is a potent defence against being charged with any crime :

Politics makes convicting Pakistani assassin difficult
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shynee »

Anti-dumping duty - Turkey’s decision to hurt textile exports
KARACHI: Pakistan’s textile sector received a huge shock when Turkey has decided to increase the anti-dumping duty on cotton fabrics and garments, which would put an adverse impact on the textile exports from Pakistan.

Country’s textile sector, frustrated with the delay in the import duty concession from European Union (EU) to provide relief to textile products of crisis-stricken countries, received the latest move of Turkey as another blow to struggling export sector.

Turkey has increased the anti-dumping duty by 35% on the Pakistan’s cotton fabrics and 52 percent on garments, according to Dr Ikhtiar Baig, Advisor to Ministry of Textile. Currently, Turkey is one of the major buyers of Pakistan’s cotton fabrics
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by SSridhar »

Anujan, excellent posts.

The repeated reference to 'Mumbai like attacks will happen' by Pakistan is to seek legitimacy to their tactics of terror. In one stroke, they equate the attacker and the attacked. It is like repeatedly saying that Kashmir is a disputed area. There was no dispute except for the one deliberately foisted by Pakistan. By repeatedly doing so, Pakistanis have made everyone, including many Indians, accept that there is a dispute. Lt. Gen. V.R. Raghavan, in his excellent book on Siachen says that Pakistanis repeatedly refer to 'fighting on the Siachen glaciers' while in fact, they are not even in sight of Saltoro. Forget about Siachen. While one reason for this is to portray to their own people as though Siachen is not entirely in Indian hands, the other is for the consumption of the international community and to perpetuate a myth.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shiv »

Good posts Anujanunddin. You deserve the pisko order of merit.

One useful way of looking at the India-Pakistan-USA triangle is to stop seeing the US as strong and all powerful, but as weak and dependent on unreliable allies with no back up, but determined to remain the most powerful nation at any cost.

The US can neither control Pakistan nor get India to hand over Kashmir. One way for Pakistan to squeeze US balls is to claim that they have kept up with their side of the bargain in being a loyal ally of the US and fighting the USA's wars. It is now the US's turn to live up to its promises as an ally and hand Kashmir/India on a platter.

A US that is unable to make Pakistan shut up and heel is now being asked to make India shut up, heel and amputate a part of itself and hand it to Pakistan. For an masochistic-masturbatory diversion we should have a thread in the underwear forum where we are all US generals and we are planning war against India to hand over Kashmir to Pakistan. Because short of such a war - Kashmir is not going anywhere.

If Kashmir is not going anywhere it means that Pakistan will forever accuse the US of not living up to its promise as an ally. Unfortunately these analyses are now a decade old and things have moved well beyond this and we need to move our thinking forward from the Kashmir issue to Pakistan itself.

The Pakistani army has been structured around the idea that they must fight wars against enemies who are always India in some avatar or other with the ultimate fruit being the break up of India and regaining of Kashmir. As that ultimate fruit looks less and less likely teh blame game has started in Pakistan.

Pakistanis blame the US for reneging on its promises, while within Pakistan the islamists are blaming the elite and the army generals of having needlessly fought America's wars all these years and Kashmir is no closer. the people whose asses are really on fire are the RAPE and Army brass in Pakistan. They are rtrying to douse that fire by last ditch attempts at getting the US to promise them something on Kashmir - which the US cannot do.

Imagine that the US suddenly says to Pakstan "OK. We support you on Kashmir". What will it mean? It will win the Paki army brass and RAPE some respite. They can declare victory and say US is on our side. India is doomed. The US can say that but if it can't deliver Kashmir - it will be back to square one after 10 more years. But the US will not be able to deliver Kashmir by war. So the US is stuck.

The only solution despite farts from Cohen and assorted Americans is to allow events to run their course. Let the people of Pakistan rule, rather than be uled by a minority RAPE/army brass and their US suporters.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Muppalla »

shiv wrote:Imagine that the US suddenly says to Pakstan "OK. We support you on Kashmir". What will it mean? It will win the Paki army brass and RAPE some respite. They can declare victory and say US is on our side. India is doomed. The US can say that but if it can't deliver Kashmir - it will be back to square one after 10 more years. But the US will not be able to deliver Kashmir by war. So the US is stuck.
US may be stuck but India is also stuck in the above scenario. India has to continue dealing with Pak eminating terror and other similar stuff.

However, by the above statement, US will be creating respite, credibility and also a legitimacy to sell more arms that Pakis will anyway buy using US aid. Another important thing is PA knows that Kashmir will not come but hafta vasool timeperiod gets extended. It will be like Zia times enjoyment and an artificial growth story again.

India is not doomed but it has to plan to go beyond this tango strategically for its size and needs without waiting. It has to do talks, talks-about-talks and manuvering. It will work and adjust to someone's script and not its own script. This is the place where India is getting stuck. If it has a plan to go beyond inspite of this tango then we are fine but that is not insight yet.

I mean the crap keeps continuing to the advantage of global strategic syndicates to sell arms, drug pedallers, mafia etc.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shiv »

Muppalla wrote: However, by the above statement, US will be creating respite, credibility and also a legitimacy to sell more arms that Pakis will anyway buy using US aid. Another important thing is PA knows that Kashmir will not come but hafta vasool timeperiod gets extended. It will be like Zia times enjoyment and an artificial growth story again.
hafta vasool time period gets extended, and all this has already happened for 40 years, Today's Pakistan is the result of 40 years of this. And today's J&K is also the result of 40 years of this. What do you foresee in the next 40 years?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Muppalla »

shiv wrote:
hafta vasool time period gets extended, and all this has already happened for 40 years, Today's Pakistan is the result of 40 years of this. And today's J&K is also the result of 40 years of this. What do you foresee in the next 40 years?
Status quo at most with several anxious moments. Loss of good lives on India's side. We will see more of our un-sung heros dying. As it becomes more and more routine, the mango junta does not even care to shed a tear unless the death is clear and visible like Kargil, Mumbai etc.

The who-blinks-first game continues and God forbid, if we get extreme weak leadership, the work load for our Army chief increases as he has to make press releases opposing the weak-leader's position.

In summary a huge distraction from India's rightful destiny.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

Maybe to make the Paki tangle with the Pakiban/bad Taliban, US should say via Wikipees (looks authentic na!) that they are Indian agents. That would make the Paki berserk and fight them and get mauled!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Hari Seldon »

The who-blinks-first game continues and God forbid, if we get extreme weak leadership, the work load for our Army chief increases as he has to make press releases opposing the weak-leader's position.

In summary a huge distraction from India's rightful destiny.
IIRC, one of Nitin Pai's tweets addresses precisely this Q. The yanks must be under the impression that quiet, private pressure works with New Delhi because it worked in the Warren Anderson case. Well, J&K is not Warren or Quattrochi. There are set limits to how far righteous yankee pressure can go on Dilli w.r.t. J&K. Or so I hope.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Pakistan’s Failure to Hit Militant Sanctuary Has Positive Side for U.S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/world ... error.html
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shiv »

Muppalla wrote: In summary a huge distraction from India's rightful destiny.
No. I mean what do you foresee for Pakistan, because India's destiny has clearly been linked to Pakistan. A change in Pakistan's destiny will change India's destiny. The "distraction" has been unavoidable and will be unavoidable in future. Trying to avoid the unavoidable will not work. We can only mitigate the effects.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:Maybe to make the Paki tangle with the Pakiban/bad Taliban, US should say via Wikipees (looks authentic na!) that they are Indian agents. That would make the Paki berserk and fight them and get mauled!
Ramana, the PA and political leadership know pretty well that the Wahhabandi Pakiban are completely indigenous, as TFTA as any other mard and have nothing to do with the SDREs. This natakbazi of RAW agents etc. is to prevent the berelvi folk from going en masse the Wahabandi way. So, they try this tactic of discrediting the purer and more pious sons of the Punjabi (night)soil. If the Americans confirm the Indian connection, then that will only strengthen the PA. The PA will still not take any action against the Pakiban because they know they will get mauled or there will be mutiny or both within the PA units (ranks & officers alike) etc.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Ambar »

shiv wrote: Imagine that the US suddenly says to Pakstan "OK. We support you on Kashmir". What will it mean? It will win the Paki army brass and RAPE some respite. They can declare victory and say US is on our side. India is doomed. The US can say that but if it can't deliver Kashmir - it will be back to square one after 10 more years. But the US will not be able to deliver Kashmir by war. So the US is stuck.
If US gives a explicit support to Pakistan on Kashmir, the ramifications of such a stand goes beyond J&K for India. It would not just be a stagnation as you state, but will have reverberations that will shake India's service and manufacturing sectors. Lets admit it, US doesn't give two hoots about who holds Kashmir. Hypothetically speaking if Kashmir was a total non-issue, its place in geo-politics would be next to nothing.
US wont take Pak's side because of economics and their constant apprehension about China. What's certain is US will have more financial crisis in the years to come.If it gets significantly weakened to embrace the 'G2' worldview, and if this happens well before India firmly places herself as an advanced country, what then? China may then provide her explicit support to Pakistan on Kashmir,probably even through major military intervention and that could put us in a spot of bother.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ramana »

SSridhar wrote:
ramana wrote:Maybe to make the Paki tangle with the Pakiban/bad Taliban, US should say via Wikipees (looks authentic na!) that they are Indian agents. That would make the Paki berserk and fight them and get mauled!
Ramana, the PA and political leadership know pretty well that the Wahhabandi Pakiban are completely indigenous, as TFTA as any other mard and have nothing to do with the SDREs. This natakbazi of RAW agents etc. is to prevent the berelvi folk from going en masse the Wahabandi way. So, they try this tactic of discrediting the purer and more pious sons of the Punjabi (night)soil. If the Americans confirm the Indian connection, then that will only strengthen the PA. The PA will still not take any action against the Pakiban because they know they will get mauled or there will be mutiny or both within the PA units (ranks & officers alike) etc.

In that case why not convince the Wahabandi Pakiban, the PA is sold out to the Indians( they already suspect them of being sold out to US!) and not doing enough and go after them. The stalemate is broken only when the PA meets its nemesis.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by menon s »

Imam reportedly has infant stoned to death because the child was illegitimate?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110117/lf ... nfanticide
The number of dead infants found last year -- 1,210 -- was up from 890 in 2008 and 999 in 2009, says the Edhi Foundation manager in Karachi, Anwar Kazmi.
Tragic tales abound.
Kazmi recounts the discovery of the burnt body of a six-day-old infant who had been strangled. Another child was found on the steps of a mosque having been stoned to death on the orders of an extremist imam who has since disappeared, he says.
"Do not murder, lay them here," reads a sign hanging outside the charity's Karachi base where it has left cradles in the hope that parents will abandon their unwanted children there, instead of leaving them to die.
"People leave these children mostly because they think they are illegitimate, but they are as innocent and loveable as all human beings," says the charity's founder, well-known humanitarian Abdul Sattar Edhi.
Most children found are less than a week old.
As they say it happens only in pureland
Last edited by SSridhar on 18 Jan 2011 13:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: You quoted the wrong text. I have fixed that.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by CRamS »

David Ignatius of the WP said India should help TSP. But Jihadi RAPEette Lodhi disagrees, sort of. She instead argues that despite giving India the royal finger on Mumbai, India is still keen to talk because as she sees it, India needs TSP's "help" on a host of issues: 1) permanent membership of UN, 2) douse Kashmir, and 3) get girl scouts role in Afganisthan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Philip »

Pak's identity crisis has reached boiling point.I mentioned that last summer I saw the so-called "Pak" exhibition in Paris at the Guimet Museum (specialising in Asian art).There was not a farthing's worth of "Paki" content in it,that is of the Pak we know of too well.It was all ancient Gandhara period Buddhist and Hindu sculpture and art,in other words entirely "Indian". Paki culture today,or absence of it,is that of the Taliban (Bamiyan Buddhas destruction) or "IED" variety and the Moghul dancing girls and their gyrations have been replaced by jehadi suicide bombers and their dances of death.

Therefore,with a failed identity,Jinnah's liberal Islamic state he dreamt of akin to Turkey,has turned into a nightmare of hellish proportions,a failed state whose security of its leaders is not worth the survival time of a dog's dinner before a pack of hungry curs,thus the countdown of Pak's disintegration has begun.Only Dr."Hu" (pun intended) and Uncle Sam are keeping the monster alive.Thus far India's policy towards Pak has been one of almost toal accomodation and compromise in the interests of "good neighbourly relations".Well knowing Pak's inevitable destiny,we must now abandon indifference to it and become intensely pro-active so that when the balloon goes up and the Paki state collapses,we must be able to act with speed before the Chinese and Americans start their salvage attempts to shore up the rotting edifice or try and squat in the sub-continent permanently.India must reclaim its lost territory of POK and elsewhere when the Paki state is in its final death throes.
Last edited by Philip on 18 Jan 2011 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
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