J & K news and discussion

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Jan 2011 22:49

CRamS wrote:menon s:

What is this f$%^&ing self-righteous crap over KM children?

Why are we surprised? After every 2-3 months, we see 1-2 examples in which a member sheds tears for Pakis and anti-nationals. *sigh*. (I think BRF should give a "Barkha Dutt Award for first-rate WKK-ism and Sloppy Thinking" every month.)

What were those children doing in those rallies? Why were those children throwing stones? Shouldn't they stay in their homes and study? Did you notice some green flags? What do they represent? The walls were painted with slogans like "Indian dogs go back".

The policemen fired in self-defense.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2011 01:40

EDITS | Tuesday, January 18, 2011 | Email | Print | | Back

Is it bye-bye azadi at last?
January 18, 2011 2:07:23 AM

Sandhya Jain

Notwithstanding their bluster, separatists in Kashmir Valley are clearly a demoralised lot. Realisation of their folly seems to be sinking in

Even as serious differences emerge among Kashmiri separatists, there are disturbing signals that hitherto marginalised leaders and groups may be brewing a new confrontation with the Indian nation. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front chairman Yasin Malik has urged the people to converge at Srinagar’s Lal Chowk on January 26 to unfurl ‘another flag’ (read Islamic) to counter the Bharatiya Janata Yuva Morcha’s plans to hoist the Tricolour there.

The idea, Mr Malik taunts, is to “convey an appropriate message to appropriate quarters”. He is backed by Hurriyat leader Mirwaiz Umer Farooq. The BJP youth began marching from Kolkata on January 12; a nervous Chief Minister Omar Abdullah accused the party of using the Tricolour for vote-bank purposes and opposed the march. Sources say the administration may block the entry of BJP workers into the State to foil the ceremony.

The new brinkmanship comes in the wake of a seminar in Srinagar on January 3 on the ‘Role of Intellectuals in the Freedom Struggle’ (read secessionist movement), where former All-Party Hurriyat Conference chairman Abdul Gani Bhat created a stir by declaring that separatist leaders Mirwaiz Mohammed Farooq (father of Mirwaiz Umer Farooq) and People’s Conference leader Abdul Gani Lone (father of Sajjad and Bilal Lone) were murdered by “our own people” and not by the Army or police, as hitherto alleged.

Mr Bhat added that his own brother, Mohammed Sultan Bhat, was murdered by the same killers in 1995. Mirwaiz Farooq was shot dead at his residence on May 21, 1990; Abdul Gani Lone was gunned down at a memorial for the senior Mirwaiz on May 21, 2002.

The ruling National Conference has termed it a “late admission” and demanded a probe to fix responsibility for the killings. At the time of the murders the State Government had claimed that Hizb-ul Mujahideen commander Mohammed Abdullah Bangroo had killed Mirwaiz Mohammed Farooq; Hizb-ul is ideologically close to the hardline Hurriyat faction leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani. Abdul Gani Lone was reportedly shot by Al-Umar Mujahideen, the militant wing of the Awami Action Committee headed by the Mirwaiz.

After thus lifting the lid off fierce intra-militant rivalries, Mr Bhat declined to name names, “What is the need to identify them ... They are already identified.” Caught unawares by the dramatic revelations, Mr Geelani, former chairman of the undivided APHC, opted for silence. It is pertinent that Mr Sajjad Gani Lone, the younger son of AG Lone, had blamed Mr Geelani for his father’s murder, but soon retracted the allegations.

That the killers’ identities were publicly known was virtually confirmed by Jammu & Kashmir Director-General of Police Kuldeep Khoda: “The person involved in the killing of Mirwaiz Farooq is also buried in the same ‘martyrs graveyard’ where the senior Mirwaiz was laid to rest.” Thus, the “killer and the killed are both declared as martyrs by them,” Mr Khoda mused. Actually, Mr Bhat had made the same speech in the Assembly of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir five years ago, but this was the first time he spoke this language in Srinagar.

The public squabbling signals dismay among the militants at the failure of Mr Geelani to achieve any results despite spearheading the protests in the Kashmir Valley throughout the summer of 2010, particularly the tactics of strikes and stone-pelting, in the run-up to the visit of the US President last November. But when Mr Barack Obama failed to utter a word on Jammu & Kashmir, thanks to the deft handling by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, the separatists fell into disarray. Other world leaders visiting New Delhi also took care not to needle India on any score.

Thus, at the same seminar, Mr Bhat charged that Kashmiri politicians started the separatist movement by killing Kashmiri intellectuals. Challenging Mr Geelani’s leadership, he asked, how many hartals will Kashmiris observe; was there a thought process behind the recent uprising? The separatist struggle will never get recognition and support at the international level, he said, and the only option left was for world powers like China and the US to mediate. Significantly, he did not mention Pakistan as a deciding force.

Mirwaiz Umer Farooq lamented that the separatists could not capitalise on the Amarnath land row in 2008, or even the five months of agitation last year, while India had successfully changed the discourse and projected the movement as the activity of a handful. The United Nations, the Mirwaiz said, was a failure and should be disbanded, and even the ‘Musharraf Formula’ fell short of ‘Kashmiri aspirations’. Mr Yasin Malik agreed that the Kashmiri leaders had failed to project the legitimacy of their cause nationally or internationally; even Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah had failed in this respect.

The APHC split in September 2003 after Mr Geelani accused Mr Bhat and other moderates of not running the anti-election campaign before the 2002 Assembly polls effectively when he was in jail. He also accused the People’s Conference headed by Mr Bilal Lone and Mr Sajjad Lone of participating in the election through proxy candidates.

Reacting to Mr Bhat’s exposé, Abdul Gani Lone’s sons dropped broad hints about the identity of the killers. Mr Sajjad Lone, who unsuccessfully contested the 2008 Assembly polls, said: “I gave enough indications (about the killer) but stopped short of saying it openly. My problem is with the white collar men who order killings. If they are not stopped, there will be more such killings.” Prior to his murder in May 2002, Abdul Gani Lone had wanted to oust foreign militants from the Valley while Mr Geelani favoured them.

The bickering among the separatists suggests that men like Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, the Lone brothers and Mr Yasin Malik have virtually accepted the fizzling out of militancy and may be privately keen to sue for peace with New Delhi. Given India’s rising status, they do not expect the UN to deliver an East Timor-type verdict in their favour. They concede Islamabad has no stature to deliver anything either, hence the dismissal of the ‘Musharraf Formula’ — demilitarisation, joint mechanism, shared sovereignty, irrelevant Line of Control — as an ‘interim arrangement’. Above all, they recognise that intifada is no solution; it has only left over 100 Kashmiris dead and hundreds injured with no objective achieved.

Strangely, Mr Geelani has suddenly turned dovish, telling a bemused nation on January 10 that he is holding the Kashmiri youth back from picking up the gun. Perhaps this indicates an ebbing of ground support for militancy in the Valley. In the circumstances, the Union Government would do well to wind up any half-baked roadmap for azadi.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Jan 2011 02:01

^^^^
Two things.
(1) All these operations are just hafta collection operations. The leaders are just nothing but hafta collecters. The problems start when the leaders number increases and the size and number of hafta givers decreases. The cracks will start appearing in the open. It is the same case whether is it ULFA or anything else. I hate to say but this applies to even TRS types. In case of JK there are a lot more givers to sustain the movement. In the current situation where Pakistan itself appears so shaky, it has to maintain a host of others in this sustaining hafta operations inside, Karachi, Baluchistan and deep inside Afghanistan. The money lines may have dried up a bit.

(2) Indian security forces have found a better operational method against stone pelters. DRDO made pellets are being used in stone pelting and arsonist-crowd management techniques. The police chief explained how pellets work it effectively helps police is stopping the stone throwers without killing them and also not getting hurt. I saw the body gear and equipment of AP police on TV when they countered the stone throwers in OU.

Stone throwing as a tactic may be dead in future.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jan 2011 08:02

MenonS, two things.

First, whatever you quote, please use the Quote tag. Otherwise, it is confusing if it is your opinion or somebody else's.

Second, you are quoting a Srilankan on the conduct of military/paramilitary and police forces ? After all that happened there over decades ? C'mon.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 18 Jan 2011 08:04

svenkat wrote:Sir,
I am touched by your liberal thoughts,your heart bleeding for innojent cashmere children.Wah! Wah!you light candles of hope in the frayed Indo-pak relationship.

PS:The firings were done by J&K police,not Central forces or the Army.

So that means J&K police is not part of the Indian state?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Jan 2011 08:29

Surely yes, they are Indian. They cannot be Paki force since they don't hang the abduls from the tree tops. Since they did not take them blindfolded and shoot them from behind for being not pious enough. Also it's thier full responsiblity to beat on the peachy bottoms of children who throw stones instead of going to school, learn something and contribute to the nation. It's also the responsiblity of the police force to ensure full law and order if it involves shooting dead all those terrorists and their sympathizers (Sadly in the name of human rights of terrorists, the same freedom, peace, prosperity, calm, life, property everything of ordinary citizen has been sacrificed) so that some can throw stones and get away with it. I think it's better if you stand before those stone throwers and solve our problems. And Admins why you allow such stupids terror sympathizers in, in the name of freedom. That's not a good sign when someone bats for the terrorists and fundamentalists in this forum.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Jan 2011 08:44

menon s wrote:So that means J&K police is not part of the Indian state?

That same police brutally tortured and murdered a Dogra youth for the crime of marrying a Kashmiri girl. Rajneesh Sharma was abducted (not arrested) in Jammu, secretly taken to Kashmir and murdered inside Ram Munshi Bagh police station in Srinagar.

The doctors, who conducted the postmortem on Rajneesh Sharma's body on October 8 2009 comprised KK Thakur of Forensic Medicines Department, Government Medical College (GMC), Ishtiyaq, Surgery Department and KK Bhardwaj, Pathology Department. The preliminary report submitted by the panel confirmed presence of multiple marks of torture and injuries all over the body of the victim. No action has been taken against the Kashmiri policemen by the communal state government.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 18 Jan 2011 09:05

.....and while we're at it let's remember the martyrs of the Amarnath agitation, the 17 Hindus shot by the JK police in Jammu region back in 2008.

.....or those killed in Jammu during the "Ek Nishan, Ek Vidhan and Ek Pradhan" agitation further back in 1952. And of course the great Shyama Prasad Mukherjee who was murdered in custody by the Sheikh Abdullah government.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Jan 2011 09:19

I wish there is shoot icon

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2011 09:34

Control! as Patekar says.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Jan 2011 11:02

menon s wrote:Dear Vikas raina ,
Please do not condone me outright. All my request here is that, a state killing its own children. which i feel sad about. Secondly, sir, i the troops can restrain themselves in jammu and other parts why? this rampant killing of Kashmiri stone throwers? is it wrong to question that?

No Sir, I am not condoning YOU, I am responding to the article that you have posted. Why should I condone you for something that didn't come out of your thought. Your question is very valid so are the responses from all the BRFites who know it more than and detail than any armchair critic sitting in his a/c drawing room writing such trash articles.

Surely Police in India uses brutal methods as happens in most of the Indian sub continent.
How do you expect a Lathi welding cop to react when faced by terrorists hiding behind stone throwing kids and the cop not knowing which stone will turn out to be a grenade. So lets put things in perspective here. BTW what is the number of people killed in police action during daily stone pelting job that they were performing.

The article says ,"The real problem of the people in Kashmir is that."
Is that the real problem ? Really ? I mean seriously...huh!

If the author wanted to talk about Pogroms, He should have mentioned how minuscule Kashmiri Pandit community was hounded out of Kashmir by the parents of so called kids. How they were tortured, women raped and people murdered.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 18 Jan 2011 11:24

As far as the thinning of the IA in Valley is concerned, IMO, it has never had -ve impact on anti-miltancy operations.

Something like this has happened twice before and I don't remember reading anything about spike in militancy. The troops were moved into locations outside J&K into peace stations and revert back after usual nonsense and tactical brilliance by the pakis and piglets. And one must ask the questions - 25% of what? 100K or 200K or 750K troops? IA has enough leverage to move in troops quickly back into the valley and douse any passions. Actually, the amir-e-piglets of UJC is correct - the probability of piggies moving into valley meeting their 72 in double-quick time does not go down.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 18 Jan 2011 11:31

VikasRaina wrote:
menon s wrote:Dear Vikas raina ,
Please do not condone me outright. All my request here is that, a state killing its own children. which i feel sad about. Secondly, sir, i the troops can restrain themselves in jammu and other parts why? this rampant killing of Kashmiri stone throwers? is it wrong to question that?
No Sir, I am not condoning YOU, I am responding to the article that you have posted. Why should I condone you for something that didn't come out of your thought. Your question is very valid so are the responses from all the BRFites who know it more than and detail than any armchair critic sitting in his a/c drawing room writing such trash articles.

Surely Police in India uses brutal methods as happens in most of the Indian sub continent.
How do you expect a Lathi welding cop to react when faced by terrorists hiding behind stone throwing kids and the cop not knowing which stone will turn out to be a grenade. So lets put things in perspective here. BTW what is the number of people killed in police action during daily stone pelting job that they were performing.

The article says ,"The real problem of the people in Kashmir is that."
Is that the real problem ? Really ? I mean seriously...huh!

If the author wanted to talk about Pogroms, He should have mentioned how minuscule Kashmiri Pandit community was hounded out of Kashmir by the parents of so called kids. How they were tortured, women raped and people murdered.

Sir, as we speak today, The Rashtriya Rifles Unit 7Th BN , stands implicated in the Pathribal killings of 2000. It was a CBI investigation. Five people were bundled out Anantnag town and killed as foreign terrorists, responsible for the Chittisinghpura massacre of march 2000. Remember sikhs killed in Kashmir, on the eve of Clintons visit to India. Look at machill killings that surfaced in 2010. Porters killed as encroacher's for promotion. Yes, only in India will the Army put in a tight spot by the CBI, and i know for sure such a thing will not happen in Pakistan. But is it right? These are our own children. If you forget that, we may have the land called Kashmir, but not its people. Is it wrong to question this? For me Kashmir, is the Shraddha Peedh of Hinduism, It is were Sankaracharya traveled , as he did to all 4 corners of India, preaching Hindu revivalism through the vision of Advaitha philosophy. No Pakistani will ever understand that, and i do not want them to understand. But we as Indians should keep the people with us. This type of talk simply alienates people from us.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jan 2011 12:01

the psec media tried to peddle the line that India itself was behind the chattisinghpora masscare, a line gleefully taken up by the expat pakis and khalistanis. but one david headley says otherwise!
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Lashkar-b ... 17459.aspx

-this muzzamil fellow was apparently killed or in the news few days back (I dont recall the exact details from a paki paper)..he claimed to have overall killed 100 people in J&K during his field 'career' , then returned to pak, drove a maroon toyota and was well known as a psycho.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 18 Jan 2011 12:29

menon s wrote:These are our own children. If you forget that, we may have the land called Kashmir, but not its people.

These Kashmiris have the same rights as any other Indian. In fact if you go buy the books, they may have more rights than an average Indian. Kashmiris as people of India, are not facing any lesser or bigger problem than what an average Indian have to face. Yet these traitors, mainly incited by religion have been biting the same hands which feed them. There is a saying "You cannot wake up a person who is acting asleep". That is the case with these Kashmiri traitors and terrorists. Pampering and mollycoddling them is not going to bring in any positive change. All these emotional out bursts is not going to make any changes in the average Kashmiri separatist. People sitting in Kerala may not realise this (what more to expect from Karl Marx's own country) but at least the rest of the nation seems to have got a better sense of reality.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jan 2011 12:51

menon s wrote: But is it right? These are our own children. If you forget that, we may have the land called Kashmir, but not its people.

You think we don't understand that? In 1983, a crowd was shouting pro-Paki slogans and throwing fruits at Indian cricketers during a cricket match in Srinagar. This happened six years before the Army entered J&K. I thought "our own children" would support OUR cricket team. One would also hope that "our own children" and the parents of "our own children" would not have any problems with OUR tricolor at Lal Chawk? Am I asking for too much?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Jan 2011 13:38

menon s wrote:
Sir, as we speak today, The Rashtriya Rifles Unit 7Th BN , stands implicated in the Pathribal killings of 2000. It was a CBI investigation. Five people were bundled out Anantnag town and killed as foreign terrorists, responsible for the Chittisinghpura massacre of march 2000. Remember sikhs killed in Kashmir, on the eve of Clintons visit to India. Look at machill killings that surfaced in 2010. Porters killed as encroacher's for promotion. Yes, only in India will the Army put in a tight spot by the CBI, and i know for sure such a thing will not happen in Pakistan. But is it right? These are our own children. If you forget that, we may have the land called Kashmir, but not its people. Is it wrong to question this? For me Kashmir, is the Shraddha Peedh of Hinduism, It is were Sankaracharya traveled , as he did to all 4 corners of India, preaching Hindu revivalism through the vision of Advaitha philosophy. No Pakistani will ever understand that, and i do not want them to understand. But we as Indians should keep the people with us. This type of talk simply alienates people from us.

Boss, It would have gladdened my heart if you would have shed 2 tears for me too. I belong to Kashmir more than any idiotic scum throwing stones at security forces or any terrorist sitting in Pakistan directing killings in Mumbai/Delhi.
Rest of us were not children of lesser God when we were hounded out of this holy land. Why is so much takleef when the shoe is in other foot. Is it the religion thing ?

IA doesn't have to kill any non-combat or innocent to prove anything. This is BS of highest order.
As you rightly said, Kashmir is one of the prime energies that provided GYan to Hinduism and look what these stone throwers and there ancestors have done. Shankracharya and Kheer-Bhawani temples are defiled, There is no aarti happening in whatever temples are left behind.
Pakistani's understand it very well and thats exactly why these attempts to erase the glorious and historic history of Kashmir and replace it with blood thirsty, horrible ideology. We have seen the future since 1989.

YES I hold a brief of IA and security forces of India because they are raised in the finest traditions of India and it is because of them I can roam in this land without any fear of Jehadi pumping bullets in me.
Finally When you say, India should keep people with her, What are you suggesting they should do. Offer Ladoo and Mysore Pak to gun wilding terrorists. Seriously what do you suggest if you feel so strongly about it. hasn't GoI offered everything that it could ?

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 18 Jan 2011 14:11

menon s wrote:Dear Vikas raina ,
Please do not condone me outright. All my request here is that, a state killing its own children. which i feel sad about. Secondly, sir, i the troops can restrain themselves in jammu and other parts why? this rampant killing of Kashmiri stone throwers? is it wrong to question that?

Sir, If these "troops" don't show restraint, then why are the stone pelting mobs willing to confront the troops at an increasingly close range, snatch their automatic rifles, and lob petrol bombs from close range? Without restraint, nothing should be moving within 100 yards of these troops.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 18 Jan 2011 14:29

Well im done folks. In new Delhi i had a chance to meet few orphans from Kashmir. I met a nine year old girl, and suddenly thought about my kid, so i gave a chocolate. She did want to eat it, but dropped it and went away. It hurts. Wonder what she is been taught. Nobody in this forum likes those stories. It is all about killing , killing and more killing. Will killing stop anti Indianism, there? I do not think so. And then to top it all, we are not like Russians in Chechnya? Moral relativism!
See that with all our brains we have lost the propaganda war in Kashmir. The army says it has no expertise in that, okay. But can you please let someone do it? no no no. What do you civilians know? G K Pillai says troop withdrawal, but Army Chief says no? As if home office does not understand the vested interests the army has there? We are foxed and trapped in Kashmir and the hamid Guls are all laughing sitting and drinking cutty stark whiskey in their lawns in Pindi.
When the time has come aptly to apply pain balm to the burns of Kashmir , the BJP wants to rock the boat, by putting the flag in Lal Chowk? Wait till June, and civil disobedience starts there, Chiddu mama will turn 10 years old in the period of one month. Storms are gathering, in a different direction. A whole lot of think tanks from America are there in New Delhi these days, as preachers. Pakistani`s are hat in hand to do mischief, during those civil disobedience period. They will make us look like a bunch of fools! Im done im sorry if i hurt anyone.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jan 2011 14:57

I am glad you are done.

These days hoisting the national flag is seen as "rocking the boat". What should we do to apply balm to the "burns of Kashmir"? Should we start burning flags?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 18 Jan 2011 15:57

)

Unbiased News On Kashmir, from Srilankan Guardian.

Menon saar...
Don't try to run away yet. You talk about applying jhandu balm whatever on Kashmiri (muslim) burns . But can you please explain what steps should India take to appease them ? Already J&K is largest recipient of aid and Kashmir grabs the lions share of everything. Everything ranging from cash for development works, employment, legislative seats is in KM hands. Kashmiris can buy property ,live and work anywhere in India while rest of Indians can't. They wanted free trade with Pakis, they had it
They wanted abolition of Amarnath Shrine Board, for what ? even after court, govt and environmental ministry turned down their pleas.
They wanted pure Islam and displaced 4 lakh Hindus from their ancestral lands
They wanted their own government, almost all miniters are KMs

What else do these ungrateful communal bas-turds want? They are nothing but wannabe Islamic ghazis. You cannot afford to play nice with them. Nothing has satisfied them till now and nothing will ever do.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 18 Jan 2011 16:19

menon s wrote:Well im done folks. In new Delhi i had a chance to meet few orphans from Kashmir. I met a nine year old girl, and suddenly thought about my kid, so i gave a chocolate.

Since you are pretty much done, all I can request you is to give sweets to all orphans (from Kashmir, or be it else where and also irrespective of their religion). All these pacifists and human rights champions seems to have ignored kids who have lost their parents (or the bread-winner parent) because that person was from a specific religion, or was from a specific profession (uniform wearing).

When the time has come aptly to apply pain balm to the burns of Kashmir , the BJP wants to rock the boat, by putting the flag in Lal Chowk?

Which flag sir, I am bit confused? Is it the BJP's party flag, or is it the Communist Party's hammer and sickle flag? Or is the country's national flag.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 18 Jan 2011 16:53

In new Delhi i had a chance to meet few orphans from Kashmir. I met a nine year old girl, and suddenly thought about my kid, so i gave a chocolate. She did want to eat it, but dropped it and went away. It hurts. Wonder what she is been taught. Nobody in this forum likes those stories.

Did it occur to you that Maybe her parents had taught her not to accept chocolates from strangers. You might have come across as predator. I am sure you are a kind hearted person but look at it from Child's POV. Wouldn't you expect same reaction from your kid if a stranger tries to offer them a chocolate.

Oh We love such heart rendering stories. Trust me, we do. Just that such stories have become very predictable and stale now.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 18 Jan 2011 17:11

Isn't it interesting that YM is planning for the march to LC when clearly the sultan of Kashmir valley seems to be the Geelani or at least that is what was supposed to convey regarding the Kashmir intifada?
So it seems the handlers over the mountains have realised the return of investment over Geelani is bad enough to sustain Geelani as the sultan, and with him the idea of Kashmir being part of the caliphate is loosing out, that may be the reason whu "Secular" JKLF will try to do something interesting.
Anyway even Taseer twitted for the success of the movement before being sent to his A@@a*

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 18 Jan 2011 17:11

`Either you guys know everything or you are prepared not to listen. There is going to be separatist action in the valley come this summer.I do not know why? May be thats the direction from Pindi. The home ministry wants to thwart it by holding panchayat elections, and see the grass root support, the separatists have. They have none, except in Cities. the interlocutors are already there. The separatists are trying to revive things, but the matches are not lighting in the winter. The students are saying that we are not coming since they have exams. So Chiddu Mama is hard at work trying to diffuse a possible flare. Now, the BJP wants to put a Flag, yes it is the national flag. Mr. Sachin, im not a marxist! But when congress is trying hard to diffuse things, BJP is playing politics. And then hide behind nationalism? " Oh poor me, we are only trying to hoist a flag"! Go do that nakhra baazi in the drawing rooms of Delhi? Does these BJP men have the right spirit to take out all Paki flags in srinagar? Do that first, and then talk about my nations flag.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 18 Jan 2011 17:26

menon s wrote: For me Kashmir, is the Shraddha Peedh of Hinduism, It is were Sankaracharya traveled , as he did to all 4 corners of India, preaching Hindu revivalism through the vision of Advaitha philosophy. No Pakistani will ever understand that, and i do not want them to understand. But we as Indians should keep the people with us. This type of talk simply alienates people from us.

Your idea of using Hindu philosophy (advaita, in this instance) to suit your aim of condoning violence by traitors shows you in poor light and your statement either by design or by default aims to spread confusion among those who are not aware much about Sanatana Dharma.

Let me narrate a story by a Self-realized master, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa who incidentally was a Hindu saint -

It so happened that in ancient India, a Master during a session with his students, mentioned to his disciples that all in the cosmos is a manifestation of Lord Narayana. A disciple was greatly impressed by this idea that the next day while begging for alms (a customary practice), he heard a commotion around and saw that a mad bull was on a rampage. But, the idea of ‘Narayana in everything’ was so engrained in his mind that he thought, “If the bull too is Narayana, why should I fear?” and stood his ground. A passer-by, who was incidentally running away to safety advised him to take cover, but in vain! Alas! our disciple was badly mauled by the bull but miraculously escaped death.
After he had recovered his health, the disciple had a valid question borne out of anguish- how come that the bull, a reflection of Narayana, did such an act? The Master replied- it is not so much that merely the bull was a reflection of Narayana, but also the passerby who advised you to run for cover!

Hope you get the drift!

P.S.- 'Advaita' in Samskrit means 'non-dual'. IOW, the bull and the well-wisher are not two! In short, all of those with 'special mental needs' can use 'advaita' philosophy to justify his point of view and quote the sanction from Shankaracharya as well!

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 18 Jan 2011 17:32

menon s wrote:But when congress is trying hard to diffuse things...

A truer sentence, i haven't read in a long while. The Cong Inc. is trying to diffuse whatever problems it can't solve...

These articles might just give a glimpse of the reasons for the "summer unrest"...

1. For the timber smugglers the summer of unrest, a boon

http://www.sify.com/news/for-the-timber ... ifcbh.html

2011-01-16 12:20:00

In Kashmir behind the smoke-screen of the continuing unrest beginning in summer last and continuing for a few months, timber smugglers have been working overtime to loot as much of green gold as they could. This is not the first time. Sources say that when militancy broke out and gathered momentum in the nineties, it was pretty much the same scenario.

2. Summer agitation was not a mass uprising: Sahai

http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=66500

Jammu, Jan 17: The Inspector General of Police Kashmir Range, SM Sahai believes last year's summer unrest in the Valley was not a peoples' movement. "Criminals and timber smugglers played a big role in it", he told a local news agency. Sahai also sees of role of militants in the agitation. "Money was also used to lure youth to pelt stones, he said.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Jan 2011 17:33

Blaming the BJP is the easy thing to do. Am not here to defend the BJP but I find it hard to find fault with the BJP here.

If putting up the national flag is 'provocative', so be it. Let the local miscreants and their phoren handlers expose their hand. Better that way than one-way concessions and subsidies forever in return for the same old stale hatred from the KMs anyway.

The poor in Bihar and Maharashtra are paying indirectly paying for the subsidized existence of the KMs. Just look atthe granst and central funds transfers in per capita terms (non-security related) that have been poured into the sunni majority areas of J&K to get an idea. Why for are these jerks so special? They better get used to hardening opinion from the rest of the country. And used to the idea that there is no outside help/interference/azadi/concession/more bribes and appeasement just around the corner. Hmmph.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jan 2011 17:55

The Internal security thread was derailed by a troll for many days. Now this...

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 18 Jan 2011 18:29

i quit im done. dont let trolls like me slow ur ship. Once in a while it is always good to listen to MoH, and Not the whole time MoD. Sadly we only have the tool of elections to confront the mad men in the valley, and expose them.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jan 2011 19:03

Folks Folks. Don't phight!

The BJP is going to "plant" the national flag in Srinagar?

Excuse me, but I have a few questions:

1) There should be an abundant supply of national flags in Srinagar and quite few BJP people. Why was the flag not planted today? Or did I miss something?
2) Unless I recall things wrong - the armed forces are hoisting the national flag every day and taking it down at sunset every day. In what sense is the BJP trying to exceed that?
3) Please correct me if I am wrong - but in between my cocktail parties, polo and golf games I vaguely recall hearing that the BJP is taking a rally from Kolkata to Srinagar to plant the national flag. Huh? Such a big hue and cry to plant the national flag on Indian territory?

Let's face it. There are two ways I can pass wind. One is to let off wind without fuss and face the music. The other way is to go around announcing: "I am about to pass wind! hear ye! hear ye! I am about to pass wind!" The later is a political statement.

What the BJP is doing is a political statement. And the Congress is sh!tting brix because the last time the BJP made a political statement by taking a rally from Kanyakumari to Ayodhya we had 18 years of fun and games with a brief flash of BJP rule. Kaangres may not be worried about the fun and games - but they certainly don't want to get off the gaddi. So they will protest.

But let me ask the BJP a question. Where is their temple in Ayodhya that they promised me 18 years ago? There has been violence and terrorism in India. The Pakistan problem is not yet solved although it is much more quiet in Kashmir. Exactly what is the BJP doing other than making a political statement of the Ayodhya type. A statement that did nothing more than give the BJP 5 years at the center out of 18 years. The BJP is desperate too. And clutching at straws. I have no problem if the BJP come to power - but if they gain power by dramabaazi it will mean nothing for my country in the long term. The Kaangress will be back. Yuvaraj will be older and more acceptable after 5 years of botching by a BJP that comes to power by dramabaazi. The real crying is yet to start.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Jan 2011 20:20

menon s wrote:Well im done folks. In new Delhi i had a chance to meet few orphans from Kashmir. I met a nine year old girl, and suddenly thought about my kid, so i gave a chocolate. She did want to eat it, but dropped it and went away. It hurts. Wonder what she is been taught. Nobody in this forum likes those stories. It is all about killing , killing and more killing.

Why do you think the girl's not liking the chocolate has anything to do with Cashmere, killing our own children and so on?

May be the little girl was scared of you! May be she doesn't like chocolate that much! or perhaps, her mama told her not to trust strangers!

At BRF we want to save millions of Kashmiris from further mayhem and terrorism. That is why we prefer killing few terrorists here and few stone pelters there.

BTW, why didn't you adopt that little girl? What kind of human being you are to bribe a little girl with a Chocolate and to expect perpetual gratitude from her? Why cant you do more? Why can't you give more to Cashmere cause?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Jan 2011 20:23

NDTV reporting that neither the BJP nor the separatists (read Ymalik and co.) will be allowed inside Lal chowk on 26 Jan.

Neat == in 1 stroke. This way, bjp also gets to make its point, whatever that was and the separatists also get to bathe in the bathos of mighty Dilli treating them on par with the toothless BJP.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Jan 2011 20:32

shiv wrote:But let me ask the BJP a question. Where is their temple in Ayodhya that they promised me 18 years ago? There has been violence and terrorism in India. The Pakistan problem is not yet solved although it is much more quiet in Kashmir. Exactly what is the BJP doing other than making a political statement of the Ayodhya type. A statement that did nothing more than give the BJP 5 years at the center out of 18 years. The BJP is desperate too. And clutching at straws. I have no problem if the BJP come to power - but if they gain power by dramabaazi it will mean nothing for my country in the long term. The Kaangress will be back. Yuvaraj will be older and more acceptable after 5 years of botching by a BJP that comes to power by dramabaazi. The real crying is yet to start.

OT.

Nothing personal Shiv-ji. This is a good question and I would like to answer it.

Because of what BJP promised to you and did 18 years ago; there is no more a disputed structure at that site. More over you got 2/3rds of land allocated to your temple thru Indian justice system.

Now it is up to you, to be satisfied with what you got and support building of the temple. OR support BJP to earn the remaining 1/3 land for you thru a parliament resolution and have a bhavya mandir.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jan 2011 20:45

Let us be clear with this there is no similarity between the two promises i.e. legally/morally/ethically or whichever way you see it there is nothing wrong in hoisting a national flag on 'public' land , it is different from the promise to build a temple on a piece of land which was sub-judice when BJP led coalition was in power.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Jan 2011 22:41

Was the girl Kashmiri Pandit or child of wanna be Wahabi Jihadi? When some one participate in uprising against lawful government and his/her own country , then that individual cease to be the member of joint family and become an enemy. Participate in battle or violent march at your own risk.If Jihadi KM are proud of their own death and destruction then why are PSers crying foul with such emotions and keeping silence and calm at the death of very own people fighting these foreign sponsered forces.
How irrational one can get in playing politics with national security?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 18 Jan 2011 23:13

You are missing the point completely Shiv jee. National flag is raised every where in India. 100s of flag raising ceremonies are held all over even in J&K. Lakhs of people gather around in functions organised by government and even at small mohalla level committees. Are they paid for this or forced on gunpoint ? As with every citizen they do so because they love the country.
Now why the hell Kashmiri Muslims have any problem with unfurling of national flag ? If armed forces do it daily, then why are they and their WKK sympathisers getting their panties in a twist when BJP does it in Lal Chowk ? Last time I checked, it was still Indian territory. These KMs get fat on crumbs tossed by Indian government and still have the temerity to balk if the flag of people who pay for their survival with their own sweat and blood is raised there. We all say, Arunachal se Gujarat, Kashmir se Kanyakumari , Bharat Ek Hai. If the tricolour can fly in Kanyakumari, Aruncahal, Gujarat, then what's so special about Kashmir, As I said before it flies in 100s of places in J&K itself. Then why not in Srinagar ?
Just because it'll hurt the sentiments of Kashmiri muslims ? Will it scar their psyche ? Alienate them ?
If it does, let it 100 flags be hoisted on every single house in Kashmir. If they don't like it, just take a hike to Cheena or Pakisatan. Better still jump in Wullar/Dal/Jhelum and die. Good riddance.
I don't care if it's BJP, Congress, NC whoever as long as the group or party upholds Indian interests. For now, BJP is doing what's really required and it has my whole hearted support.

Menon s wrote:--"There is going to be separatist action in the valley come this summer."

Do you know why "summer" ? Why not in winters ? Because they are too lazy to come out of their cosy homes in freezing winters. This community has mastered the art of hibernation. Collect doles in summers and hibernate in winters.
These so called protests are just mass gatherings to collect noxious fumes from collective musharrafs of Kashmiri Muslims. Only purpose is to raise enough stink. Naive folks and WKK will wrinkle their nose in disgust and blame India for forcing peacefool KMuslims to "choke" in their farts and ask for more money, aid, freedom and whatever perfume they might require to quench the smell. It's another matter that as KMs don't wash their musharrafs, the smell is unlikely to go anywhere. No amount of perfume can do what an only slightly oiled danda can.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 19 Jan 2011 05:20

jamwal wrote: Menon s wrote:--"There is going to be separatist action in the valley come this summer."

Do you know why "summer" ? Why not in winters ? Because they are too lazy to come out of their cosy homes in freezing winters. This community has mastered the art of hibernation. Collect doles in summers and hibernate in winters.

Good point.

I always felt what is big shakes about winter, if you are passionate for a cause? Why wait till summer to feel "azadi" under your mush? The likes of The Great Leader, Sir "Chicken Ceaser" Saladuddeen and all are just "recreational jihadis" who come out during summer, bark around a bit, take a few innocent lives and go back before the first leaf falls. The dudes who die at the hands of IA are more like pakjabi morons who see no future in Pakjab and got no prospect for a Gelf or even a Kanadian visa,

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Jan 2011 06:08

Wow, Winter Sharabi,Kababi Khwabi comes out as brave summer Ghazi Jihadi yet PSers dont find this unique Kharabi among Dal lake Murgabis. Lets hope they do last another 20 years or so in similar passion fashion for Azz-addhi. These Narkasur, Baassakur must be possesed by right hand.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Jan 2011 07:28

State of Oregon declared Sept 14 as Martyr's day

That we, the members of the Seventy-fifth Legislative Assembly, support the establishment of a semi-independent geopolitically autonomous zone within the state of Jammu and Kashmir to serve as a homeland for non-Muslim minorities of that state to protect them from ethnic cleansing, religious persecution and abuses of fundamental human rights, and further recognize September 14,2007, as Martyrs Day, to condemn the religious persecutions and campaigns of terror inflicted on non-Muslim Kashmiris.