Two-G (2G) Spectrum Scam Tapes and follow-up

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jan 2011 22:33

The Cabinet reshuffle seems to be to take care of the CWG scam. The big wigs are still not affected. And the Damocles sword is till on the big three:MEA, MHA, FM. Could be later.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Jan 2011 22:48

^ looks like Politicsparty guys is right one more time...

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 20 Jan 2011 04:48

Just as 10 steps in a dictator scenario, similar steps are being played in the 2G scam per script. The typical politico uses these steps for the scam, as the evidence keeps mounting progressively..

Step 1: This 2G scam is misleading interepretation/ miscommunication. - Kapil sibal is struck in this step

Step 2: This whole thing is blown out of proportion. Mountain is made out of mole hill. -kapil sibal is in this step.

Step 3: I am not guilty, whatever happened to fairness etc., Look my friends in high places think highly of me. (Bring in eminent people - nobel winners are better and optional). MMS is past this stage.

Step 4: We will get to bottom of this. Trust nothing is going to happen. (MMS is planning to go into this stage)

Step 5: Did I make poor judgment, yes. Did I fail to excercise authority and caution. Yes.

Step 6: Conduct musical chairs, reshuffle cabinet so all the opposition is entertained with this tamasha.

Step 7: There is nothing proven. Not a shred of evidence is presented. Did I do anything against law. No.

Step 8: We trust in fairness of the Indian public and we have earned their trust. Appeal/beg to the public to divert attention.

Step 9: Were mistakes made. Yes. Then reel out - we believe and have complete faith in the judicial system of the nation. Hoping things will get exonerated.

At this point this whole thing is reeking of stench, that one is forced to do something. The whole charade is a cosmetic non-solution, designed to impress upon simpletons. Well, public are stupid and that is prerequisite for conning them in the first place.

Step 10: After completely proven, slowly morph into. I want to put this whole saga behind and move on with my life. (I will let you deal with the mess I left behind.). Ah, by the way as a parting gift, I am going to let a person who is one among you (stupid and simpletons) to lead you from now on. Only exceptions are, he is not poor unlike you and is a scion of powerful family. "I take full responsibility for this" will be the icing on the cake to rub it on the people.

Ah, such is the high life of a politician.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 06:22

At a fundamental policy level, if one goes around the assorted conspiracy theories the problem with telecoms is a problem of (a lack of) a strong regulator..Sunil Jain, perhaps the most dogged media follower of the "scam" over the years, writes lucidly about the policy flip flops over the years..

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/lets- ... n/739888/0

The basic problem is that TRAI is a third class regulator, willing to be bent around by the government...And the problem isnt just about telecom, its across a range of sectors - mining particularly..

India does not have to look far for an example of a world class regulator - just peer across to Mint Street, Mumbai, where Reserve Bank of India is headquartered..The sort of money that can be "exchanged" in various types of banking licenses if things were allowed to come to that pass will make the 1.76 lac crore look like chump change...But thanks to successive governers (MMS being one of them), RBI has built up such a reputation of policy integrity and competence that few ministers dare even "talk against" it, forget trying to bend policy...

Back to telecoms, Raja has been "caught" now...But few remember the policy shenanigans of Pramod Mahajan - he was widely suspected to be working for Mukesh Ambani (Reliance Telecom) on the WLL issue...The misappropriation of the "limited mobility license" into full fledged mobile services was a gambit started by Reliance Telecom, the earlier players (Tata telecom etc) started only when Reliance showed the way...To be fair to Arun Shourie, by the time he took over the ministry, Reliance Telecom had a few million subscribers, and had created a big enough legacy interest for its services to be shut down overnight....though one must say that the fine paid by Reliance (and the other WLL operators) was very very small for the sort of economiv vauation they derived...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2011 06:27

somnath,
question for you in managing Pak failure thread.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 20 Jan 2011 08:13

Black money info cannot be made public, says PM

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/black ... pm/739864/

Black money info can't be made public: PM

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 320636.cms

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 08:59

^^^ Legally and technically, the PM is spot on...There are lots of individuals who have (infamous) swiss bank accounts..Not all those individuals have gotten the monies deployed there as kickbacks, or payoff for "nation betrayal efforts"..A lot of them would have the money for more mundane crimes as tax evasion, and a lot of them would have 100% legit money in those accounts (this includes resident Indians, who can have overseas banking accounts)..In the last case, there is no point disclosing the names in public - it would tantamount to libel in most countries, and would destroy reputations for no reason. In cases where there is suspicion of tax evasion, the "crime" still has to be proven - tax is an enormously complicated affair..Indiscriminate disclosure of names therefore would only make authorities in Switzerlan (an elsewhere) withold information in future, as it jeopardises the large banking industry that they have...

Therefore, while it is good populism to ask for disclosures, its legally just not possible...What is required is political will to go after those suspected of money laundering in these accounts...What should be done, and it is "practical", would be to make disclosures of accounts of all public servants...At various levels, all public servants, including MPs/MLAs, now have to disclose their assets to some authority or other, many of them publicly available...A foreign bank a/c is an asset that needs dislosure..SO if the public servant hasnt, the govt is within rights to "disclose" the same to the relevant authority or the public - that is a more useful POA>..

pran · Post by **pran** » 20 Jan 2011 09:04

abhishek_sharma wrote:Black money info cannot be made public, says PM

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/black ... pm/739864/

Black money info can't be made public: PM

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 320636.cms

He is making a mockery of the Indian constitution and laws. The stink is very close to the italian parivar.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Jan 2011 09:08

somnath wrote: Therefore, while it is good populism to ask for disclosures, its legally just not possible...What is required is political will to go after those suspected of money laundering in these accounts...What should be done, and it is "practical", would be to make disclosures of accounts of all public servants...At various levels, all public servants, including MPs/MLAs, now have to disclose their assets to some authority or other, many of them publicly available...A foreign bank a/c is an asset that needs dislosure..SO if the public servant hasnt, the govt is within rights to "disclose" the same to the relevant authority or the public - that is a more useful POA>..

If what you say is true, why is it not legally possible to disclose the swiss account details of Public Servants, MPs/MLAs etc?

MMS, PM of India, has very little political capital in the realm of honesty and trust. He cannot and should not hide behind legalities now. If the news reports are accurate then GOI has received these names more than a year ago. If he is as sleepless as he claims to be, his govt could have conducted IT audits on these guys and make public the tax defaulters.

One can be sure that any account with balance more than a certain threshold (say $10M) must be a tax evader. Then why not publish those names and accounts?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 09:35

RamaY wrote:If what you say is true, why is it not legally possible to disclose the swiss account details of Public Servants, MPs/MLAs etc?

As I said, making details of public servants (and MP/MLAs are now classified as such) should be do-able under some rule or another...For example, all assets of MPs need to be filed with the Speaker, AFAIK...

About amount-related disclosures - not feasible at all..There are enough Indians I know of with >10 mio in foreign banks, all legit...What people forget is that in the last 10 years, resident Indians have been allowed to have foreign bank a/cs, open large businesses overseas..There are lots of commercially successful Indians with that kind of balances..No point denting reputations...

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 09:39

Black money is public money and should be made public. I as a tax payer have right to know where my money had gone. Taxes have been evaded or bribes taken away for work not done or public deprived of facilities. How can this PM speak like this (if he has really spoken such words).

Especially poors are deprived of general facilities and other classes are just struggling in their lives with poor infrastructure and bad systems. All due to tax evasion, loot and plunder by black marketeers, politicians, bureaucrats and industrialsts.

Sarkar ke baap ka paisa hai kya?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Jan 2011 09:43

Somnath garu,

So we agree on public servants and politicians.

I will give you the benefit of doubt on amount-related disclosure

What about releasing the names of known tax defaulters? Given that GOI has this list with them for more than a year, why didn't they find weather these individuals are tax evaders or not? I know for a fact that IT department releases the names of major Tax evaders to Indian public.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 09:48

And how PM can be right but SC not? Is SC fool to ask the Govt to disclose the names?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 09:58

RamaY wrote:I know for a fact that IT department releases the names of major Tax evaders to Indian public.

Does it? I wasnt aware of that..From time t time, the media would come up with stories on specific defaulting individuals/companies being raided - but a list of "tax evaders" - any link/source?

Murugan wrote:Is SC fool to ask the Govt to disclose the names?

Well, it isnt..But I am not clear whether the court wants the govt to make the names "public" or dislose the names in the court...In either case, SC has not given any direction/order to the govt yet - it is asking the govt...If it i legal, the court can well pronounce an order asking the govt to make the names public..My personal take is making disclosing a/c holders names publicly would be problematic..

Systemically, offshore tax evasion now is a huge issue globally..Countries therefore have treaties signed with each other, especially with known havens or financial centres - India has something like 15 tax evasion treaties under negotiation..

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Jan 2011 10:00

I have to look for link/source as I remember reading them in Telugu news papers. Will look for them.

Yesterday Timesnow/Undtv were saying that GOI has give the SC the list of names in sealed cover on the condition that it will not be made public.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 10:18

If SC will not make it public Wiki or someone else will make it.

We have always succeeded despite govt and sometime despite our legal system

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 20 Jan 2011 11:03

somnath wrote:there is no point disclosing the names in public - it would tantamount to libel in most countries,

dont bat for crooks

libel means using false information to defame, In this case there are names of crooks who have unaccounted wealth in their swiss bank accounts. This is not false information, the liablity rest on the crooks to prove the legality of their earnings.

No need to do drama by sonia and her hired chamchas in the media and internet, the names should be made public now.

If congress party cant reveal names then it needs to resign, call for new elections. black money in swiss banks should be made election issue and winning party would reveal the names of the crooks

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 20 Jan 2011 11:11

In Indian case I highly doubted any body send their legit money to Swiss bank or any such tax heavens. Under this UPA govt. the corruption has engulfed the whole nation. Recently, in a CBI raid an IAS couple caught with 400 crores black money.now one can imagine how these MLAs,MPs, Ministers and thousands of other government officials in responsible position use their officeto make unprecedented amount of money and they definitely not going to keep this black money in India rather for safety os such il gotten money sensibly be parked in those tax heavens. I remember, about a year ago, PM Manmohan Singh, during cut motion , summoned Mukesh Ambani with his bag of money to bail out his Government. This is unprecedented, never heard any where in the world, such naked display of corruption (horse trading of MPs). The guy never faced an election, as a remote cont PM, he lost all his credibility to serve one lady who put him in the highest office of the country and that is the most dangerous for the security of the nation. The gang of corrupt cronies headed by Congress chairperson Sonia Gandhi and her policy adviser and trusted criminal Ahmed Patel are literally proxy PM, acting on behalf of this man . Now it make sense PM's repeated refusal of JPC and now denying SC's request to disclose the names using some bull crap nonsense foreign tax rules. As Jetmalani has correctly pointed out it is very easy to take the lairs of fraudulent identities once the investigation started and get to the bottom to identifies of these the perpetrators engaged in such heinous crimes in looting public money and exporting them out to tax heavens.The problem here is the same, the news on the road is now even many public TV channel has those names, particularly from SWISS BANK a/c, hare used by the corrupt politicians.One can now imagine,the probability of 2Gs names are mostly there ,so the reluctance of PM to ignore even SC's request to divulge the names just to protect 2Gs(Raol Vincci & Sonia maino) as a return favor as a planted PM of a democratic republic.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 11:11

It has been 60 years and still our majority of the people do not get simple facilities like hospital, good quality food, water and other infrastructure. the name of the people who are responsible for this should be brought to justice at once and public should know who are these haramkhors. this act will also dissuade others who loot, plunder and stash away in future.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 11:19

Why names of people like Ketan Desai and the IAS couple above should not be made public? KD was caught with Rs. 1800 crore and 1.5 tonnes of gold. and the whole nation knows. why did govt allowed his name to be made public? he was not favourable perhaps or must have outlived.

The govt it seems is in process of filtering out the names of the black marketeer and tax evaders, corrupt bureaucrates and politicians.

The 'useful' one will be spared and the names of the people supporting opposition camp will be made public. This useless bs

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 11:27

arjunm wrote:In Indian case I highly doubted any body send their legit money to Swiss bank or any such tax heavens

Where have you been? Total FDI "out of India" in the last few years has rivalled FDI "into" India..Therefore, a lot of people DO have legit money in Swiss (read foreign) banks...Second, tax evasion - which is the biggest "crime" in such offshore fund transactions, is older than me!

Import under-invoicing, export-overinvoicing have been ubiquitous over the years(I have some, not a lot, but some sympathy with people who did that earlier when tax rates were pegged @ 97% by Indira Gandhi)...But tax evasion is different from "corruption" that you allude to..

As I said before, the best POA would be to insist on making the names of all public servants and their families with foreign accounts disclosed in public. that should take care of most corrupion related questions...

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 11:44

The SC Said

The court made it clear that it was not happy with Government's approach on the issue. "This is the problem which is worrying us. It is not only about tax evasion and has something more," the bench said after it was pointed out that the source of these money might be narcotics, terror fund or arms dealing.

Why SC would be telling this then

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jan 2011 11:50

Open letter to the PM.

Please dear PM,since you say that black money details cannot be made public,thus favouring only a rare select few who are free from prosecution like one Signor Quattrochi,why can't you make honest taxpayers also black money account holders,giving every citizen the right to hold a secret Swiss or offshore account? This will usher in an egalitarian society in the country,surely a wish of the Congress party which wishes to preserve the identity of those secret account holders at all costs! I am sure it will also bring in the votes.Please therefore publish in the media how any ordinary Indian citizen can open such "black money" accounts abroad.For a man such as yourself,so lauded for your financial wizardry and acumen,it is only befitting that you assist your citizens in the matter and leave this great achievemnt of yours,"the secret black money account", as your lasting legacy to posterity.It will be remembered far longer I assure you than your achievement of signing on the dotted line as ordered by Uncle Sam for the N-deal!

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 12:07

SC is very serious

http://www.zeenews.com/news681589.html

"Why are you limiting the matter to the Liechtenstein Bank only," the bench asked, when the solicitor general said he was making submissions on averments made in the petition.

"What stops or precludes this court from expanding the scope of this writ petition in public interest," it asked.

"The writ petition is not confined to one bank and this is the issue about all money stashed in foreign banks.

There is no issue of confining the petition to one bank. All we want is that you give all information about the money deposited in the foreign banks by Indians," it said, making it clear that the the issue cannot be confined to one of tax evasion.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 20 Jan 2011 12:08

Of tax havens & black money

New Delhi, April 26 In the run-up to the General Elections 2009, there is a slanging match or war of words between the two principal national parties, the Congress and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on the humongous hoard of evaded wealth by Indians of all hues stashed away in tax havens.

Even as the BJP leaders Mr L.K. Advani, Mr Arun Shourie and Mr Arun Jaitley have been tossing up the numbers in trillions of dollars in such tax havens by Indians, the Congress Party on its part vehemently denied through its leaders, Mr. Chidambaram, Mr Jairam Ramesh and other spokespersons, that it has been lax or shown lassitude in making moves to track such havens.

Leave aside the incalculable hoard of ill-gotten wealth stored abroad, India has not been successful in quantifying the amount of black money sloshing around in the black hole of a parallel economy within the country with the last estimates made in early 1980s that had been trotted out by authorities in Parliament questions even in 2008! It is another matter that the officials in the Finance Ministry remain backdated on the computation of black money in the economy even after the economy was liberalised and reforms ushered in the 1990s. It is time the revenue department modernised itself if only to ferret out wealth from tax evaders in the country.

Indian leaders might glory in the august company of G-20 of developed and emerging economies. Spurred on by the G20, governments and financial centres around the world have come forward with pledges to open up bank records to foreign tax investigations.

With policymakers and central bankers camping in Washington (including the Planning Commission Deputy Chairman, Mr Montek Singh Ahluwalia, and the RBI Governor, Dr D. Subbarao), for this year’s spring meetings of the World Bank Group and the IMF, the burgeoning interest being evinced by India’s major political party BJP has not come a day too soon. The message now is loud and clear: abetting tax evasion is no longer acceptable. In a recent monograph published on the OECD’s Web site ahead of the Spring Meetings, the OECD Secretary-General, Mr. Angel Gurria, appositely remarked that “a crackdown on tax havens and cross-border tax evasion will help developing countries to raise more revenues to pay for much-needed schools, roads and hospitals”.

The role of tax havens in siphoning off tax revenues from developing countries has come under the scanner amid efforts to crack down on cross-border tax evasion. As OECD argues, every year billions of dollars are made over from developing countries to foreign tax havens. If only more of that money stayed at home, it could finance bigger development budgets and help relieve endemic poverty and under-development.

Earlier this month, the G20 announced its intention of taking action against non-cooperative jurisdictions, including tax havens that failed to implement international standards of transparency and exchange of banking information for tax purpose. The Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, who attended this meeting in London has not apprised the Indian people of what concrete suggestions he would provide to bring back the legitimate wealth from tax havens, even though the issue was raised by Mr. Advani seriously.

The government officials tasked with the tax issues in the Finance Ministry should frame procedures and practices to proceed further on this vital matter that would impinge on the development prospects of the country in the years to come. This is particularly so now when aid budgets from abroad are under pressure, domestic fiscal space is constricted and trade volumes remain anaemic amid the global economic crisis.

At the end of the day, whoever wins at the hustings, the people of India would feel happy if a serious bid or beginning is made by the next government if it seriously goes after the subterranean wealth kept in lockers in various tax havens.

Alongside, efforts to make a plausible assessment of black money within the economy and track them should also be made on the presumption that to hunt for hidden wealth is to get it to promote commonwealth of the legions of the poor. The gearshift in focus from tax gathering to better tax administration through concentrated attack on tax havens or sources of black money is a long-felt need for ensuring even development of the country, fiscal experts argue.

Related Stories:
‘Rs 70 lakh cr Indian money in Swiss banks, other havens’

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 790300.htm

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 12:14

It is here. Tax Justice Network

The Tax Justice Network is led by economists, tax and financial professionals, accountants, lawyers, academics and writers, and we are driven by original research and ideas. Supported by a growing community of individuals, economists, faith groups, non-governmental organisations, academics, lawyers, trade unions -- and many others

http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/front_con ... idcatart=2

Tax Justice Network keeps watch on Tax evaders and other crooks

Why tax and tax havens?
Tax is the foundation of good government and a key to the wealth or poverty of nations. Yet it is under attack. These places allow big companies and wealthy individuals to benefit from the onshore benefits of tax – like good infrastructure, education and the rule of law – while using the offshore world to escape their responsibilities to pay for it. The rest of us shoulder the burden.

Tax havens offer not only low or zero taxes, but something broader. What they do is to provide facilities for people or entities to get around the rules, laws and regulations of other jurisdictions, using secrecy as their prime tool. We therefore often prefer the term "secrecy jurisdiction" instead of the more popular "tax haven."

The corrupted international infrastructure allowing élites to escape tax and regulation is also widely used by criminals and terrorists. As a result, tax havens are heightening inequality and poverty, corroding democracy, distorting markets, undermining financial and other regulation and curbing economic growth, accelerating capital flight from poor countries, and promoting corruption and crime around the world.

The offshore system is a blind spot in international economics and in our understanding of the world. The issues are multi-faceted, and tax havens are steeped in secrecy and complexity – which helps explain why so few people have woken up to the scandal of offshore, and why civil society has been almost silent on international taxation for so long. We seek to supply expertise and analysis to help open tax havens up to proper scrutiny at last, and to make the issues understandable by all.

The fight against tax havens is one of the great challenges of our age. Our approach challenges basic tenets of traditional economic theory and opens new fields of analysis on a diverse array of important issues such as foreign aid, capital flight, corruption, climate change, corporate responsibility, political governance, hedge funds, inequality, morality – and much more. (Read more in Part II of our Manifesto for Tax Justice)

How big is the problem, and what is its nature?
Assets held offshore, beyond the reach of effective taxation, are equal to about a third of total global assets. Over half of all world trade passes through tax havens. Developing countries lose revenues far greater than annual aid flows. We estimate that the amount of funds held offshore by individuals is about $11.5 trillion – with a resulting annual loss of tax revenue on the income from these assets of about 250 billion dollars. This is five times what the World Bank estimated in 2002 was needed to address the UN Millenium Development Goal of halving world poverty by 2015. This much money could also pay to transform the world’s energy infrastructure to tackle climate change. In 2007 the World Bank has endorsed estimates by Global Financial Integrity (GFI) that the cross-border flow of the global proceeds from criminal activities, corruption, and tax evasion at US$1-1.6 trillion per year, half from developing and transitional economies. In 2009 GFI's updated research estimated that the annual cross-border flows from developing countries alone amounts to approximately US$850 billion - US$1.1 trillion per year.

Offshore finance is not only based in islands and small states: `offshore’ has become an insidious growth within the entire global system of finance. The largest financial centres such as London and New York, and countries like Switzerland and Singapore, offer secrecy and other special advantages to attract foreign capital flows. As corrupt dictators and other élites strip their countries’ financial assets and relocate them to these financial centres, developing countries’ economies are deprived of local investment capital and their governments are denied desperately needed tax revenues. This helps capital flow not from capital-rich countries to poor ones, as traditional economic theories might predict, but, perversely, in the other direction.

Countries that lose tax revenues become more dependent on foreign aid. Recent research has shown, for example, that sub-Saharan Africa is a net creditor to the rest of the world in the sense that external assets, measured by the stock of capital flight, exceed external liabilities, as measured by the stock of external debt. The difference is that while the assets are in private hands, the liabilities are the public debts of African governments and their people. (Read more)

Globalisation and international trade and finance have got a bad name of late. Each brings opportunities, and risks. We must now start to address seriously what may be the biggest risk of all: tax abuse, and tax havens and everything they stand for.

What can you do?
Our resources are small, yet the huge, well-funded public and private interests that oppose us have no answers to the agenda we are setting. Our message is starting to spread fast. Please join us, support us, and engage with the emerging debate.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 20 Jan 2011 12:22

somnath wrote: As I said before, the best POA would be to insist on making the names of all public servants and their families with foreign accounts disclosed in public. that should take care of most corrupion related questions...

somnath ji,

The corrupt in India already operate openly, I don't see what actual benefit (besides more song and dance) will result out of making the list public. "Exposure" would have helped if these people operated in secret, but they don't. They operate openly and continually as respected members of society. Its not too difficult to find them - sort of common public knowledge.

The corrupt in India have no fear of being prosecuted and brought to the book. Such shananigans (foreign accounts list etc) won't get us anywhere, when the basic fact on the ground is that the system is setup to look the other way rather than prosecute the corrupt or more like reward the corrupt while discouraging anyone who may want to act against the corrupt or blow the whistle. In many cases its the honest official who has to constantly worry about being hounded by his/her corrupt colleges.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 12:24

On tax evasion and avoidance

TJN said...
Regarding the difference between evasion and avoidance -

Evasion is, by definition, illegal, while avoidance, is not illegal but, also by definition, contrary to the spirit of democratic legislation (otherwise why would it be called avoidance?) Avoidance is generally about loopholes, and is generally harmful. There is a huge grey area in between the legal and illegal, which is the terrain of lawyers, accountants and tax authorities. Dennis Healey summed up (from memory): the difference between evasion and avoidance is the thickness of a prison wall.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 12:32

Dhiman wrote:
somnath wrote: As I said before, the best POA would be to insist on making the names of all public servants and their families with foreign accounts disclosed in public. that should take care of most corrupion related questions...
somnath ji,

The corrupt in India already operate openly, I don't see what actual benefit (besides more song and dance) will result out of making the list public. "Exposure" would have helped if these people operated in secret, but they don't. They operate openly and its not too difficult to pinpoint who the corrupt are.

The problem is that the corrupt in India have no fear of being prosecuted and brought to the book. Such shananigans (foreign accounts list etc) won't get us anywhere, when the basic fact on the ground is that the system is setup to look the other way rather than prosecute the corrupt.

People in general do not know what is tax evasion and what is secret accounts. People who are openly operating do not necessarily have accounts abroad. As small transactions upto few crores will be known to people/bank/agencies. What about the safed goondas who are actually ruling you but stashing away the wealth somewhere else. They might be some politicians or elected representatives.

At least if people know them they will not elect these guys. This will lead to polticial death of crooked politicians. Let the list go public. If there are no politicians involved people's doubt will be cleared. simple advantage both ways.

Let people of india know who are these crooks. Let debate follow. Let laws are formed. List need to be made public at any cost.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 13:15

Murugan wrote:Evasion is, by definition, illegal, while avoidance, is not illegal but, also by definition, contrary to the spirit of democratic legislation (otherwise why would it be called avoidance?)

thats precisely the point BTW..A vast majority of so-called swiss bank a/cs belong to people who tried to avoid paying tax..Its not just the case in India, but across the world..In UK, where tax rates are very high, the government created a separate set of tax residents (called non doms) who would pay a lumpsum tax rather than by the tax grid..this was done to ensure that the super rich (after all UK has the City!) pay at least some tax..

The point of greater concern to us is corruption - that is where disclosure helps..But nothing can replace poliical will..Dhimanji, at least for politicians, exposure is the big thing...No politician has survived being "exposed" in a scam - Rajiv Gandhi, PVNR, Bangaru Laxman..You might quote Mayawati/Jayalalitha, but they are exceptions rather than the rule..Appearance in a list of "swiss bank a/c holders" will blow the death knel for any pol for at least 10 years...

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 13:33

Corruption in tax avoidance happens this way

Rs. 15000 is tax exempted in medical reimbursement in Bharat. One can avail tax benefit upto Rs. 15000 by producing the bills to avail tax benefit. Tax avoidance is promoted by govt in this way, legally.

One does not fall sick or has any genuine medical condition, produces counterfeit or forged bills to avail tax benefits. This becomes evasion. This becomes crime. Many medical stores will give you fake bills on some commission. This makes the evasion complex. Medical stores show income on fake bills to IT but actually not selling medicines. more complex.

Similarly for claiming LTC etc.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 20 Jan 2011 14:07

Asad ali khan - relative of Hasan Ali Khan the hawala king from Pune?

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 20 Jan 2011 15:54

Now about Gas pricing (wondered why murli deora has been removed from petroeum ministry)

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... anner.html

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Jan 2011 16:24

Wait wait lets be 'specific' there is a huge difference between 'Tax avoidance/evasion' and 'Money Laundering' and I guess all of us who know as to how well the gobmint pays there is no way one can amass the kind of numbers we have been hearing in the news by merely avoiding or not paying tax. That is why the buck stops at Mr. Integrity and his gobermund for the moment it is established that a person has money disproportionate to his known income it becomes a 'CRIMINAL' case and then GoI has no obligation to keep the culprit's name a secret.

Why stop at Swiss bank accounts even the blind in India know how much property the Gandhi clan have amassed in India itself (these loonies have acres of land in HP a state that prevents an outsider to purchase large piece (more than 1 Bigha I guess) of agricultural land) .

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 20 Jan 2011 16:44

'Black money in foreign banks plunder of nation'
http://www.zeenews.com/news681589.html

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jan 2011 17:13

shyamd wrote:Asad ali khan - relative of Hasan Ali Khan the hawala king from Pune?

Yes

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2011 21:05

shyamd wrote:Asad ali khan - relative of Hasan Ali Khan the hawala king from Pune?

You made the connection in two seconds but DDM is still wondering hu is Asad Ali Khan!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Jan 2011 02:12

http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 21 Jan 2011 03:43

Blackmoney in foreign banks ''plunder'' of nation: SC
(SC-LD BLACKMONEY 2LST)

Thursday, January 20, 2011, 7:00 [IST]

The solicitor general, however, tried to pacify the bench saying that it is an established procedure that wheneveran affidavit is filed, it is with the concurrence at thehighest level.

Subramanium also accepted that the figure about theblack money stashed in foreign banks is mind-boggling, butexpressed limitation in sharing all information about itsaying that the authorities have to go on the basis of mutualagreement with various countries where the money is stashed.

The bench also questioned the government for limitingthe information provided by it only to the Liechtenstein Bank.

"Why are you limiting the matter to the LiechtensteinBank only," the bench asked, when the solicitor general saidhe was making submissions on averments made in the petition.

"What stops or precludes this court from expanding thescope of this writ petition in public interest," it asked.

"The writ petition is not confined to one bank andthis is the issue about all money stashed in foreign banks.

There is no issue of confining the petition to one bank. Allwe want is that you give all information about the moneydeposited in the foreign banks by Indians," it said, making itclear that the the issue cannot be confined to one of taxevasion.

Senior advocate Anil Divan, appearing for Jethmalani,said the government was concealing information on the issueand so far it has only tried to cover up the mindbogling crimeby suppressing the materials from coming into open.

"How can the issue be restricted to one of taxevasion. It may be some crime syndicate involved in depositingmoney in foreign banks," he submitted.

"It is also not a question of tax evasion but stealingof money from India. Where is the question of DTAA here. Themoney may be for terror, narcotics or arms dealing," thesenior advocate submitted.

The plea of DTAA has been chosen with the malafide toconceal information from public, he said.

Divan said the Government was also reluctant insharing information about the Pune-based businessman Hasan AliKhan who has stashed money to the tune of Rs 36,000 crore inUBS Bank in Switzerland.

The Government was not proceeding the case in allseriousness against Khan as it has been two years since theEnforcement Directorate started probe against him without muchprogress.

The Bench also said "as for Khan it is a matter ofconcern. What type of documents you have about him".

Divan said it was a matter of concern why thegovernment was proceeding against him only under the tax law.

He said custodial interrogation of Khan was neccesaryto know for how many persons he has been the holder of benamiproperty.

After three hours of hearing, the Bench adjourned thematter for January 27.

The court was hearing a petition moved by former law minister and noted criminal lawyer Ram Jethmalani, seeking the disclosure and repatriation of huge sums kept by Indians in foreign banks. The government has so far given only 26 names to the judges, on deposits in the Liechtenstein Bank of Germany. When the judges repeatedly asked the government whether that was all the information it had about foreign accounts, the counsel said the government was ready to file a “status report” on the probe, which is continuing.

Arguing on behalf of Jethmalani, senior counsel Anil Divan stated the treaty would not come in the way of disclosure of those who had money in foreign banks because the treaty was about taxation. “But here we are dealing with money which might be from arms deals, narcotics and meant for terrorist activities,” the counsel said.

In the case of the German bank, the German government was willing to provide the names of the account holders for the asking, after a whistle blower in that country uncovered the accounts. Still, the Indian government had not sought or disclosed the names of the account holders. The counsel said the government and some clever bureaucrats were showing the whole affair as a tax avoidance exercise, while the source of money is crime.

He alleged the government was a laggard in its investigation for over a year since the petition was filed. Hasan Ali Khan, a Pune-based trader, has not been prosecuted despite holding fake passports and huge foreign deposits traced to him.

The counsel cited several Supreme Court judgments which asserted the duty of the government to disclose information which the people had a right to know. Even under the Right to Information Act, the government has a duty to be transparent, Divan said. The hearing was incomplete and it will be resumed next Thursday.

Peoples chins are now wagging in public:

Quattrocchi, S.K. Jain got kickbacks, says ex-CBI officer

Pressure from high places forced me out of the probe: B.R. Lall

With payoffs in the Bofors guns deal under the spotlight again, an ex-CBI officer who supervised the case has claimed that alleged Hawala dealer S.K. Jain told the probe agency he and Italian businessman Ottavio Quattrocchi received kickbacks from projects — including the howitzer deal — routed through them.

Citing a written submission made by Jain on March 13, 1995, former joint director of CBI, B.R. Lall, who was supervising the case then, said, “the duo [Jain and Quattrocchi] has taken the contract in partnership and has close connections [in high places].

“The Hawala dealer, in his submission to the CBI, had said that he used to take 3 per cent of the project cost as commission while seven per cent of the total amount was received by Quattrocchi as kickback. The duo was getting 10 per cent of the commission against cracking deals with the government,” Mr. Lall told PTI on Tuesday.

He claimed that he faced ‘pressure' from influential persons, including politicians and officials of the late then Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao's office, and was shifted out of the probe.

“I faced pressure when the agency officials were probing the case as we gathered [a lot of] evidence against influential people for their involvement in the Bofors case. As a result I was shifted out of the investigations,” the officer claimed.

A Rs. 15-billion-contract between the Indian government and Swedish arms company AB Bofors was signed for the supply of over 400 155 mm Howitzer field guns on March 24, 1986.

Initially, the CBI had registered a complaint on Jan 22, 1990 and, after a thorough investigation, set up a special investigation team for the case on January 30, 1997.

CBI files, first chargesheeted, named late Bofors agent Win Chadha, Mr. Quattrocchi, former Indian defence secretary S.K. Bhatnagar, former Bofors chief Martin Ardbo and Bofors company on October 12, 1999.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 21 Jan 2011 06:05

Timesnow interviews the director of Tax justice networks and he says India' tax evasion is endemic and it needs immediate attention. It's now proven there are Indian accounts with almost trillions stashed away in Swiss bank accounts. There is global pressure for India to act and nail those who've stashed away billions in secret Swiss accounts. But unfortunately unless the UPA govt is thrown out of power, I don't think any thing will happen even the whole world is putting pressure on India to act.

http://www.timesnow.tv/