J & K news and discussion

[Raghavendra]

^Commie birather dont show your neechness here, we know you commies well.

Commie dont have a proper job, all they do is steal for others by cornering plum postings in fart producing institutes like JNU and get incredibly jealous when somebody uses HIS OWN MONEY to stay in a high end hotel

Now its evening time, time for commie birathers to start their drinking cheap liquor stolen from bourgeois hotels

[somnath]

Why would BJP need to hoist a national flag during it's tenure , the stone throwers and azadi seekers raised their ugly head only recently actually the rot started with the PDP gobmint as usual supported by CON party.

Well, the PDP-Cong govt took over during BJP's time in 2002! And BJP welcomed it as a symbol of its mature handling of Kashmir...PDP's parrticipation in the election was brokered by the PMO then and it was an attmept to bring the separatists into the election fold...not just that, BJP also took the initiative to talk to the Hurriyat - Umar Farooq downwards (And upwards!)...About terror violence, it probably reached its decade (2000-10)-long peak in 1999-2001 period..the troop deployments for Parakram took it down, but it continued at a high tempo till the famous Musharraf-ABV Islamabad decaration "committing" Pak to stop terror support..

All this while, there was no initiative to take out an Ekta yatra to Srinagar..

Having said that if this act manages to shrink the CON party's vote bank in the state the 'gimmick' would serve it's purpose.

Well, so much brouhaha for a maximum of 4 seats (3 in Jammu + 1 ladakh)?

[Aditya_V]

Five star Nationalism
"Anurag Thakur, who is leading the Rashtriya Ekta Yatra, is opting for most luxurious hotels in the cities on the route for his day breaks and night halts. A day before the Yatra began, he stayed at Spring Club in Kolkata on January 11. At Durgapur in West Bengal, the city where the Yatra took a first day break, he stayed at Rose Valley, one of the best hotels in the city.

Later, he stayed at Canary Inn at Hazaribagh in Jharkhand, Hotel Maurya in Patna, Hotel Ramada in Varanasi, Hotel Prakash Residency in Jhansi, a VVIP guest house at Lucknow and Panna Palace in Agra, all high-end hotels. Last night, he stayed at Haryana government guest house, Macfi, in Faridabad," said a youth leader, who is part of the Yatra.

Surprisingly, according to sources, the youth leader cancelled his stay in towns like Arrah in Bihar, Jaunpur and Unnao in UP and Barakhata in Jharkhand just because these economically backward places didn't have a luxurious accommodation.

"Anurag preferred to break his journey in Patna, despite his initial plan to stay in Arrah (Bihar) because of the unavailability of a luxury hotel there. For similar reasons, he also skipped his scheduled stays in places like Barakhata, Jaunpur and Unnao and preferred to halt at Hazaribagh, Varanasi and Lucknow," said the youth leader.

So this guy Anurag Thakur , a Bourgeois upper caste who stays only in five star hotels, is going to be the face of India in the valley? And we are supposed to glorify his nationalism, wah!

What does 5 star have to with it, when Maoist supporters, Paki Generals, Hurrirats, Secular leaders commie and non commie variety stay at luxury hotels, Foreign Jaunts etc, it is not an issue for you. Now you rake a non issue.

[menon s]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

[chandrabhan]

Five star Nationalism
"Anurag Thakur, who is leading the Rashtriya Ekta Yatra, is opting for most luxurious hotels in the cities on the route for his day breaks and night halts. A day before the Yatra began,

Hotel Ramada in Varanasi, Hotel Prakash Residency in Jhansi, a VVIP guest house at Lucknow and Panna Palace in Agra, all high-end hotels. Last night, he stayed at Haryana government guest house, Macfi, in Faridabad," said a youth leader, who is part of the Yatra.

So this guy Anurag Thakur , a Bourgeois upper caste who stays only in five star hotels, is going to be the face of India in the valley? And we are supposed to glorify his nationalism, wah!

Menonji,
Do you want a room in Ramada Varanasi for as Low as Rs1800 per night? There are 5 star Hotels by the name of Taj, Meridian and Radisson In Varanasi. Ramada is not a 5 star Panna palace too is not a five star, may be 3 star and It's magpie not Mcfi and It's a crappy tourist motel run by Haryana tourism(I would not have stayed in any of these places). In today's times an MP who gets a salary plus allowances of Rs 1.5 lac plus a month can afford (officially) to stay in these hotels. Moreover he needs to take care of his health to lead this yatra.

That besides the point, What has Rahul Gandhi achieved staying in the huts of Dalits except some symbolism? Do you actually believe Rahul gandhi's assets as declared during elections. he owns one maruti gypsy and has some 5 lacs as deposit. So-nea aunty has loaned 5 lacs to Priyanka and overall assets are around 1.8cr (if i remember correctly).

I am Superman, Really !!!! I fly when nobody is watching

[sum]

Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks.

Just reading the bolded parts made me decide to instead of bothering to reply..

[Vikas]

^ So even if BJP is doing it for votes or publicity, The fact remains that hoisting the national flag anywhere in India is birthright of all Indians.
Why so much opposition to this desire to hoist flag in Srinagar. Why is Lal chowk more sacred then Lal Qila ?
Who cares where Anurag Thakur stays and Pray what has his caste got to do with hoisting the Tricolor.

Exactly this kind of discussion sends a message to KM's that they are some special breed and they can like Pakis ask for favors and Chanda from India
while abusing it.
If you don't like BJP taking out a yatra now, Then do it yourself.
Show this world that you are only opposed to BJP and not with the idea of Indian flag being hosted in Lal Chowk.
Arrey Baba, Let one of the G-2 visit Srinagar, hoist tricolor in Lal Chowk and garner all votes and publicity..But let someone do it.

Bringing in unsubstantiated reports like 5-star hotel stay and upper caste sounds like farts that spoil your own trousers and spread your pakistaniyat everywhere.

PS: Who uses words like Bourgeois these days ? Didn't communism died along with Karl marx when FSU disintegrated.

[abhishek_sharma]

Mr. Sachin, im not a marxist!

I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk.

[abhishek_sharma]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

If you had written this yesterday, this discussion would not have taken place. Now I see you where you are coming from.

Bliss to know your views!

[Dipanker]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

You are not secular but a pseudo-secular. A real secular person would not indulge in equal-equal like you have done. Just need to spend more time on BR, you will learn!

[chandrabhan]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks.

When was the last time you abused, JLN , Somnath Chatterjee, Jyoti basu, Budhadeb or their descendants? They are all upper caste bourgeois. Wy not the IM join this march and aid the integration of KM in the national mainstream? Why not write a letter to Deoband to support this national integration movement? Do some good, You seem to have some grand ideas about symbolism

[Vikas]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

But they wont. Would they ?

Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob.

and you know this for sure because ??????????

[abhishek_sharma]

Folks, let us move on. Let us not waste our time on this guy.

[shravan]

sanku,

u are right. This truly is a season for looking at all in in their real clothes.

[menon s]

Dear Sharma sir, Im not a marxist, Im a socialist. Is that wrong?

[abhishek_sharma]

No sir, why should I have any problem? This is a free country. Go ahead and express your views. My apologies.

[Muppalla]

A shift in the discourse

Democracy devised a check: policy was the prerogative of the elected. The bureaucrat had responsibility without the power. He could take his revenge through deviation, delay or prevarication but he could not supersede the minister. Nor could the minister behave like an autocrat. There is always accountability, internal and external. Policy in theory travels from minister to Cabinet; and Cabinet is a discordant chorus rather than an inspiring solo.

The bureaucrat had responsibility without the power. He could take his revenge through deviation, delay or prevarication but he could not supersede the minister.

What do we make of, then, a bureaucrat being nominated to announce a major policy shift in one of the most sensitive problems facing the Indian state, Kashmir? On Friday it was Home Secretary G.K. Pillai who told a seminar, to which media had been invited, that government plans to cut paramilitary forces in the valley by 25% in one year, and offer unilaterally multiple-entry, six-month travel permits (not Indian passports, but specially designed permits that might leave the nationality question vague) to Kashmiris to cross the Line of Control into Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir. This in effect allows anyone in Kashmir to go to Pakistan since there will be no restrictions by Pakistan on further movement. The Army chief, General V.K. Singh, who is the principal effective guarantor of security in Kashmir, was not informed that such a proposition was on the verge of implementation.

Normally, such an important swivel should have been announced by Home Minister P. Chidambaram, or even Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh. There is only reason why they did not. They were using Pillai to test the waters of public and political opinion before the ship of state could be turned towards a different direction.

There is only question to ask, and it surely must be wandering through General Singh's thoughts: have the twin threats of terrorism, much of it Pakistan-funded and inspired, and intrusions by elements of the Pak army reduced by 25%? Other questions emerge from this. What evidence do we have of any change in Pakistan's covert policies towards India? Relations, bolstered by back-channel talks, between India and Pakistan were improving until the terrorist attack on Mumbai. Delhi demanded that the sponsors of this terrible carnage, sitting pretty in Lahore, be held to account. Pakistan snubbed the thought. It has done nothing. Should we conclude, therefore, that the UPA government has decided to forget Mumbai and resume the pre-Mumbai equation with Pakistan? The UPA may be entirely rational in conceding defeat in the stand-off against Islamabad, but confession and clarity before the Indian people would help.

Or is this the start of an effort to change the primary subject of national discourse from corruption and food-price inflation? Rising prices, particularly when coupled with unemployment, are the most serious danger that any government can face. Even Arab dictators and monarchs are discovering that the people might learn to live with autocracy but they will not tolerate a government that cannot guarantee price security of essential food. In our country, anger against corruption has been supplemented by rage against the tyranny of onion prices.

[negi]

Well, the PDP-Cong govt took over during BJP's time in 2002! And BJP welcomed it as a symbol of its mature handling of Kashmir...PDP's parrticipation in the election was brokered by the PMO then and it was an attmept to bring the separatists into the election fold

PDP and INC formed the Government in 2002, PDP alone would not have been able to form the government I see that you read too much into what NDA 'said'/'talked' about assimilation of separatists as against CON party actually lending them support on the floor of the house.

not just that, BJP also took the initiative to talk to the Hurriyat - Umar Farooq downwards (And upwards!)

What's different here ? It has been the case ever since the Hurriyat came into being.

...About terror violence, it probably reached its decade (2000-10)-long peak in 1999-2001 period..the troop deployments for Parakram took it down, but it continued at a high tempo till the famous Musharraf-ABV Islamabad decaration "committing" Pak to stop terror support..

Terror violence is different from these azadi chanting residents the former are mostly non residents.

All this while, there was no initiative to take out an Ekta yatra to Srinagar..

Well you see in the Kargil aftermath even separatists were subdued as they realized that not many outside their group will sympathize with their 'cause' but the scene has changed under the Abdullah Jr. and Mr. Integrity's watch hence the need for the Ekta Yatra.

Well, so much brouhaha for a maximum of 4 seats (3 in Jammu + 1 ladakh)?

That is a bare minimum at this point in time I see it as more of a confrontational approach to tackle the secessionist agenda in the valley.

[menon s]

that government plans to cut paramilitary forces in the valley by 25% in one year

muppalla ji, it is para military forces, and not regular army personell. Para militaries are in the command of the home ministry?

[rkirankr]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

Did you read sachar report? I read somewhere that muslims are worst off in WB. May be they were better off before CPI and CPM came to power

[menon s]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

You are not secular but a pseudo-secular. A real secular person would not indulge in equal-equal like you have done. Just need to spend more time on BR, you will learn!

I have heard this a thousand times and always this has been my answer, please understand that every 200 kms in India, has a different language, food habits , religious practices and customs, and there are no majority minority in India. I a Malayali Hindu, has more in common with a Malayali Muslim, than some Punjabi Hindu. So in the end of it we are all Minorities in this country. It is our collective values that keep us together. This Pseudo thing, has been started by BJP a long back. Has it helped? Forget Muslims, you could not bring the SC`s and ST`s under the saffron flag.

[Aditya_V]

Menon. S->

What about Lawlessness, Sharia courts and Mass killings in WB, poverty etc, in what way is WB a model state, just because violence is not covered does not mean it does not occur. If you scratch the Skin you will so many Rich as well coming from so called Upper caste in the leaders who have foreign Jaunts in CPM and Congress and lead luxurious lifes. Its anther thing that media men who do 500 crore share buy backs and fly first class to foreign countries refuse to cover these. and many of the so called Lower castes are part of the BJP.

And just like seculars get disgusted with BJP people, many of us live in pappable fear in So called Secular Govts with fear from Politicians.

Lets not be Hycrotical shall we.... If you have a genuine point state it

Pseudo thing has not been started not been started by BJP but by certain rich Secular Politicians who lead luxurious lifes by buying/obtaining votes from the poor classes by espusing hatred against upper middle classes.

By the way Menon S-> whats your view on a certain Hacking in broad Daylight in a Public Bus in Palakkad just because they had a diferrent ideology from the Ruling GOvernment. Dont you think people who have a different view also have rights??

Take time go through the forums here and overtime you will learn that so much that has been taught to you in Schools and media is not true but a well managed psy-ops operation to keep certain people in power for eternity. And we verring away fromt he topic. Just chill, lets agree to disagree regardign politics for now.

[Chandragupta]

I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks.

You sir, should start putting a 'Puke Alert' warning when you start to write your posts.

[rkirankr]

I remember the story of the man who had a python as his pet. I think somebody mentioned it in Nukkad dhaaga. The Python is friendly but every day it was sleeping straight(comparing its length to the length of the man) to assess whether that man ,when gobbled up will fit into its tummy.

[Chandragupta]

I a Malayali Hindu, has more in common with a Malayali Muslim, than some Punjabi Hindu.

Punjabi Hindus thought the same of Punjabi Muslims & Bengali Hindus thought the same about Bengali Muslims. We all know how that turned out. Please stop sugar coating the nonsense that you've been spewing around for the last few days. The flag hoisting is not about Hindutva or Saffron mobs whipping up anti-Muslim sentiments. The fact that you see a nationalist movement as communal, fascist & anti-Muslim show the kind of perverted thought process you have.

[menon s]

Did you read sachar report? I read somewhere that muslims are worst off in WB. May be they were better off before CPI and CPM came to power

I donot want to derail the issue we started with, But West Bengal has historical reasons, for Muslim backwardness. The major fact is the flow of refugees, from Bangladesh causing, demographic problems. In India, the lot of the Muslims have improved, West of the Kanpur Line. East Of Kanpur line in states of Assam, Bengal (both because of influx of refugees) , Bihar and Uttar Pradesh alone their lot is worse. Rest of India, they have invested in education, in a major way. And the results are there to speak. In Kerala, where suicide rates are above national average, there are very few cases like that amongst them. Their society is more cohesive . And these Muslim folk who have gone to Dubai, detest the Punjabi Muslim, and the Pathan equally, because they have no skills and come to Dubai with fake certificates! So please do not blame CPI and CPM.

[Hari Seldon]

munna bhai, jamwal n negi shibs,

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that in the 2009 LS polls, the jammu and ladakh LS seats went to the INC? This, after the amarnath agitation, after 26/11 and all that. No?

[negi]

^ Boss I did not follow the 2009 LS in detail (Munna or Mupalla might help there), in this case my point is electoral benefits are a bonus from my vantage point I see it as more of a 'testing the waters' kind of exercise, the sole reason I support it is hoisting a national flag on the clock tower in no way hurts sentiments of those who consider themselves as Indians as for the rest I couldn't have cared any less.

[menon s]

Punjabi Hindus thought the same of Punjabi Muslims & Bengali Hindus thought the same about Bengali Muslims. We all know how that turned out. Please stop sugar coating the nonsense that you've been spewing around for the last few days. The flag hoisting is not about Hindutva or Saffron mobs whipping up anti-Muslim sentiments. The fact that you see a nationalist movement as communal, fascist & anti-Muslim show the kind of perverted thought process you have.

Request you to read
Nation, Reason and Religion:
The Punjab’s Role in the Partition of India
Ayesha Jalal.

All said and done, the commonality of masculinity was stronger than the bond of religion.
Men of all three communities delighted in their momentary sense of power over vulnerable women;
such was the courage of these citizens of newly independent states. Gender eroded the barriers that
religion had been forced to create. Whatever women may have accomplished by aligning their
interests with nationalist organizations, it was more as abstractions appended to the religious
community seeking sovereign statehood than as substantive subjects constituting the nation.

Forget it i do not want to educate you, about Punjabi narcissism.

[Raghavendra]

All im saying is this. As a secular person

First prove your secular credentials by condemning the atrocities committed against non-muslims right from mappila massacres then we will decide whether you a real secular or a fake one.

i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs.

Then dont watch, go back to your buddhijeevi conclave and read revolutionary poetry and drink coffee along with the failures who are permanent residents there

Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel.

Why caste should matter, when the people opposing this yatra dont believe in caste.

I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk.

CPI and CPM are secular? Hello birather, did you overdrink that cheap daru today

CPM partner PFI and its boss madhani are known terror outfit and terrorist.

These parties which indulge in monthly massacres of their state citizens are not secular, they are criminals.

Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

BJP governs states while commies rule states

Shows the difference in mentality of people, Doesnt it my dear socialist birather

Dear Sharma sir, Im not a marxist, Im a socialist. Is that wrong?

Marxists kill people in concentration camps[Gulags], Socialists kill people in concentration camps[Konzentrationslager].
Same people, different labels.
Call a pig as swine or swine as pig, makes no difference.

[Raghavendra]

Forget it i do not want to educate you, about Punjabi narcissism.

Haan ji now Punjabis are bad, death to punjabis, then what about those malayalis muslims who are undertaking love jihad? Is this got to do something with Malayali narcissism

[AjayKK]

Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks.

Just reading the bolded parts made me decide to instead of bothering to reply..

There is no LaL-Red colour in the tricolour, so how can the non-Lal flag be hoisted on Lal Chowk ?

http://www.sify.com/news/kashmir-not-to ... iigha.html

Jammu, Jan 20 (IANS)

A day after Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah met Congress president Sonia Gandhi and union Home Minister P. Chidambaram in New Delhi, the state government announced Thursday that it would not allow any 'programme which has the potential of vitiating the peaceful atmosphere in the state'.

An official statement, without specifically referring to Bharatiya Janata Party's 'Rashtriya Ekta Yatra' or national unity march aimed at hoisting the tricolour at Lal Chowk in Srinagar on Republic Day Jan 26, said: 'The state government has directed the civil and police authorities to ensure that all measures are taken to ensure that the law and order in the state is not disturbed in the run up to the Republic Day celebrations.'

This announcement was made after a high level meeting chaired by Abdullah in Jammu, the winter capital of the state.

[Hari Seldon]

negi,

the sole reason I support it is hoisting a national flag on the clock tower in no way hurts sentiments of those who consider themselves as Indians as for the rest I couldn't have cared any less.

Very well put only. +1 only.

[ravar]

Request you to read
Nation, Reason and Religion:
The Punjab’s Role in the Partition of India
Ayesha Jalal.
Forget it i do not want to educate you, about Punjabi narcissism.

As per Wiki, Ayesha Jalal, the Paki historian

...she was denied tenure in 1995 (Columbia Univ) amidst great controversy. This occurred just after Jalal vociferously opposed Columbia accepting a large grant from the powerful Indian business Hinduja Group to establish a research institute for Indic studies (which has since been closed by the university). Jalal alleged that Indian and India-centric faculty "were uncomfortable with a Pakistani woman teaching Indian history" and sued Columbia claiming religious and ethnic discrimination. The District Court of New York dismissed her allegations calling them "thin but suggestive".

Aah...where had I heard all this before? -Paki's obsession with Kashmir....Kerala Muslim youths recruited by Paki militants for fighting in Kashmir (killed and bodies recovered by security forces) using local handlers...

...and then comes a 'distinguished' new guest in BRF extolling the virtues of the 'secularism' trying to sugar coat actions of traitors...behind the coat tail of a Paki historian...

Too much of a coincidence??

[JE Menon]

Strongly advise an end to the psychoanalysing of Indian ethnicities in this thread or any thread on BRF as it only leads, from past experience, to unwarranted antagonism and recrimination over semantics. There is neither need nor room for blue on blue in BR.

menon s - please desist. This is a caution.

Others pls do not engage.

Incidentally, this is the J&K News & Discussion thread.

[munna]

munna bhai, jamwal n negi shibs,

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that in the 2009 LS polls, the jammu and ladakh LS seats went to the INC? This, after the amarnath agitation, after 26/11 and all that. No?

Well slight correction Jammu and Udhampur went to INC but Ladakh was won by an independent candidate! From my conversations with Jammu based friends the reason behind those wins was the open defiance by the local unit and leaders of INC against hi kaman. This helped to prevent a polarization of votes against the INC and also some internal machinations of the party which I will not go into. However they did better in Vidhan Sabha and won 7 MLAs from the region.

Just a request people leave the enlightened, neutral, non-partisan and uber secular to their devices. These were the people who used to taunt where is RJB? Ting-a-ling here it is ol' fella! Now the taunt is what can you achieve in J&K, well they take it as a challenge.

For all those questioning the love of nationalists or sudden expression for yatra. I think I need not remind you before even MM Joshi their leader Shahid SP Mukherjee made the supreme sacrifice to have the permit system abolished. They have a decades old stance and shall stick to it. Secondly I am not explaining the correctness of stance but the fact that they live by it and will follow it to logical end. So stop bothering to convince the party otherwise, afterall they are anyways irrelevant to South Asian bhaichara club in some NRI destination.

The stance of nationalists is as follows

1) We have promised nothing nor will we allow even lip service to assuage the splittists. We emphasize that no back track or radia-esque deals will be allowed to be promulgated unchallenged. No cover or H&D for the splittists period.

2) Accession of J&K to India is full and final and testing of waters or floating of balloons like this Omar said nothing wrong on J-K accession: Krishna

Abdullah had said in the Assembly that the state had only acceded and not merged with Union of India and could not be compared to Junagarh and Hyderabad

will be met with equally forceful reassertion of our writ over the valley

3) If people want no yatra then control the running dogs of sedition and maybe we can talk

4) Regarding the "ruling" relics from the only two red states of India do not bother with them or engage them. We as citizens of India will do what we want and no amount of denouncing us can stop us.

[Pratyush]

All im saying is this. As a secular person, i feel it very irritating to watch the Hindutva mobs and the rabid mullah mobs. One is saffron and the other is green, makes no other difference. Just as how a Hindu would detest a Muslim mullah mob, Muslims will detest a rabid Saffron mob. Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel. I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk. Not these rabid anti muslim folks. Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

One question to you is why are the secular parties of India don't plan on hoisting the national flag in that city? Can you please rationalize that? Why is hoisting the national is seen as a communal act.

[Sachin]

Admit we have had our mistakes in Bengal and Kerala, but we have successfully ruled states with high Muslim populations for longer periods.

What a joke !!
Point #1. A democratically elected government's (or the party in power) merit is not decided by how long they managed to rule states with Muslim (or for that matter any religion) population.
Point #2. And we see the merits of communism in Kerala. We now have cases of terrorist attacks where the master minds or the main accused are from Kerala, and they are Muslims as well. Yeah, commies manage to rule the state by pampering the minority communities more and more.

Plus when it is Bourgeois and upper caste it adds more fuel.

Did you check your own login name here? Guess you are following the foot steps of Comrade EMS Namboodirippad. Acts as the biggest communist to walk on this earth after Mao,Marx and Engels. But retained his upper caste sur-name till the very end.

it is para military forces, and not regular army personell. Para militaries are in the command of the home ministry?

Organisations like the BSF,CISF,CRPF etc. are known as "Central Police Organisations" and are under the MHA. BTW, you really like to see the Army being pulled out and terrorists just rushing in from across the border, don't you? .

[ramana]

Folks DO NOT INDULGE IN NON J&K TALK HERE.

menon_s, You are ready for one step ban. There are many threads for you to push your views. Not this one.

ramana

[svinayak]

"somnath" = While the rhetorical logic behind the flag-raising is hard to defy, the politics of BJP around this is clearly partisan and strangely, stupid (from the PoV of its own interest)...Partisan, because for the 6 Republic Day parades the BJP government presided over, they did not organise a single yatra-cum-flag raising..Didnt even talk about one...It was the time when ABV was talking about talks within the ambit of "insaaniyat" etc..

Care to explain how is it partisan ?
Why would BJP need to hoist a national flag during it's tenure , the stone throwers and azadi seekers raised their ugly head only recently actually the rot started with the PDP gobmint as usual supported by CON party.

At a substantive level, the yatra does not achieve much - the flag will definitely have to be taken down soon after the jamboree

The real story need to be told.
When the last year stone throwing event was happening there was a effort to suppress the national movement to support JK. The kashmir lobby has reached inside the UPA govt and it has started to buy off parties for its goal. This is well oiled money making transaction now.
The only way to break this nexus between media, secular leftist groups, political parties is to raise it to national level.

The kind of comments here shows how unhappy they are about the Republic Day of India. Nationalism reduces the relavance of the leftist parties in India and hence their attack on other parties.

It exposes the leftist and the secular parties in India. That too on a Republic Day,